tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg December 2, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm EST
or go online to enroll in aarp medicarecomplete. announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: -- . scott filling in for charlie. a new film from director pablo for ane tells the story different point of view. here's the trailer for jackie. >> is glorious. >> and you? wei believe in the character
a.o.: joining me is the director of the film, pablo lauren, and natalie portman. tells a story that is very familiar. people remember where they were, seeing the zip router film -- zapruder film. problem: i -- chile, so notom related directly to the story. lookingterested in at this woman's life, which what the film deals with. it is -- there is the first lady side, and there are many jackie's in this movie. the story that attracted me was
one of a woman and a mother. protected byrmally other people and ends up protecting those around her. is what we tried to share with the audience. a.o.: natalie, what was it like for you? this is one of the most famous women in american history and yet, she is somewhat enigmatic. she is someone we have seen in the photographs, we have seen in the pink suit and hat. we don't really know. how did you find your way into the character? how did you discover the dimensions, intimate and emotional dimensions we see in the film? natalie: one of the things we know well about her is how private she was and how much protective she was about her life. one of the famous things about a famous woman. it was scary to take on someone who everyone feels like they
have a handle on, but there is very little out there. is angly, youtube incredible resource, just a treasure trove of old interviews from early campaigns, where you can get a sense of when she is a little rougher, less polished, and of course when she is much more polished in the white house, which we re-created. of course, the books that basically every person in her life wrote about her, from the nanny to the bodyguard. every single person had their own book about jackie. a.o.: how important was the voice? it is very striking in the cell. -- in this film. i realize that while jack kennedy's voice is one you can hear in your head and summon up, her voice is less well-known and
very particular. it is not a matter of dialect coaching and getting some sort of regional accent. i don't know if anyone talks like that anymore, if very many people ever did. natalie: the sort of aspirational mid-atlantic movie , andkind of accent breathiness, combined with this ,ort of long island bouvier etc. city, it allows -- it is pretty fun. i think the first day i did onset i stop pop logo, what -- i saw pablo go to what? pablo: you get used to it. natalie: then you saw the real thing. it's unusual. a.o.: how is it to play a real person who is so well-known, who is such an almost mythological
sencents in people's -- pre in people's minds and memory? but was the challenge of finding the emotional dimension of that person's experience? natalie: pablo's approach of seeing her as a human and not as an icon and allowing these andnts of real imagination having that sort of license to go places you would not do with someone you revere, the questioning of god and all of these things that we would not necessarily associate immediately with jackie, were helpful in creating more of a round human being. i think the biggest challenges , youwhen we had to really know, re-creating the zapruder
film. we did not re-create that. it is different camerawork, of course. but we know exactly what she did facially and physically in such an extreme emotional moment. you are limited by the truth that people are very familiar with. those scenes were much harder than the walk with the priest, where there is a lot of liberty. a.o.: i feel like what you are unusual and what is so and powerful, but also disturbing about this movie is you are watching both a public event, a political event, hugely consequential act of political violence, tragedy. you have a sense of the chaos that is swirling around jackie kennedy, but it is also this moment where a woman had lost her husband and you feel the collision of the marriage and political life.
how did you organize those themes? did you come at it from the kennedy story, from the public story and try to go in for jackie's experience and try to build out? pablo: we had a great script. , i guess, yeah, it is how she built this narrative. she protected jfk's legacy and made him a legend. without knowing it, she became an icon. that is one of the biggest challenges. she is very well known. how long does it take for the audience to assume to accept that person is jackie? that is i guess what cinema does.
it is hard to describe. or is a limit on it. there is -- there is a limit on it. there is an element of mystery of feel making -- filmmaking, what natalie is doing, and allowing us to create the allusion of what we were looking for. what i think is very beautiful is somehow she was trying to organize something that ultimately she would be able to control. that lack of control creates a gap in between the intention and the result and that is where we can work. a.o.: i think we have a clip that illustrates that a little bit, where she is talking about the plans for the funeral, you know, with jack valenti. you see a little bit of what you are talking about there. >> i've come to discuss tomorrow. >> the attorney general relate to me -- relayed to me a desire
for a more modest ceremony. >> i changed my mind. 4 >> i'm sorry? >> i changed my mind. we will have a procession and i will walk to the people with a casket. >> even if we could make the arrangements, i am sure the secret service has concerns. >> and president johnson? >> president johnson would like nothing more to fill your wishes, but i have to ensure your safety. the country could not endure another blow. if it were up to him, he would do anything that might bring you comfort. >> and who is it up to, mr. valenti? >> we're expecting close to 100 heads of state. >> 103. >> i'm sure they are right. i'm sure they will make all their own decisions. >> based on what? >> a great deal of classified intelligence that i cannot get into. intercepted a threat
against general gall from our people in geneva. >> i understand. >> i wish there was more we could do to accommodate your wishes. i'm sorry. >> don't be. you have done so much. mr. valenti, which you might getting a message to the funeral guests? inform them that i will walk with jack tomorrow, alone if necessary, and tell general degaul that if he wishes to ride in an armored car or a tank for that matter, i won't blame him. i am sure the tens of millions of people watching won't either. >> why you doing this, mrs. kennedy? >> i'm just doing my job. a.o.: talk a little bit about
the scene but also what is going on behind it. the funeral and the plans for the funeral, which jackie keeps changing her mind about, is one of the key dramatic central issues in the movie. talk a little bit about what is going on with her and what she is trying to do and how her thinking and feeling evolved around that. natalie: it's like you were saying, such a crazy thing to be experiencing something so dramatic and devastating and terrifying personally and also have to worry about a country at the same time. it is one of the things that is remarkable about here is that she was so aware of it immediately. from the moment it happened, she refused to take off her soup which was stretched in blood, which is to be in the moment and recognize that your image is important for people and will
help tell the story of how it happened was incredible presence of mind. initially, she wanted to have this big procession to sort of mirror the lincoln funeral procession. it was in order to have a legacy of lasting as important as lincoln's, but it is also terrifying because her husband just got shot on her lap in that kind of crowd atmosphere. when we were filming in some of the real places where they eventually did the procession, you see there are windows and roof tops. there are thousands of places for someone wishing -- pablo: that's what makes her so fascinating. she looked more naïve, that she had an incredible sort of communication and sense and
smell. all of these things feel like they happen so long ago, but not like that. 60 yearstro died later. she would keep the pink dress so people knew what happened. she would walk eight city blocks from the white house to the church and would be fully exposed, with the eyes of the world, so people would know and she would know what you was doing. there is something in that control that is interesting, because it feels very natural, but at some point i think she knew which he was doing. that is interesting because that is what the movie is about. there are these moments where she does seem to be asserting control and she is very much a political player
dealing with her late husband's brother and the johnsons and the whole complicated washington situation. there are also other times where she feel so isolated and so alone and so vulnerable and just like a woman whose husband had suddenly been killed. --re is something about that this is a story about private, personal grief but also about this enormous public event and about how quickly people start competing for control in the story. as soon as something happens, the question becomes whose narrative is this going to be and what is my role? let's look at another clip, speaking of that, with a scene of jackie and bobby, who is played by peter scars guard.
>> skews me. do you know who james garfield was? >> no, ma'am. who william mckinley was or what he did? they were presidents killed while in office. and what about abraham lincoln? the you know what he did -- do you know what he did? >> he won the civil war. he abolished slavery, ma'am. >> that's right. thank you. please tell them i want to focus on lincoln, not his funeral. a.o.: this movie is about an
assassination and transfer of power. it is also about a marriage. what did you come to think about -- this is a marriage that has been dissected and talked about endlessly in books and articles and we might think we know all the secrets of it, but with you feel like you learned about jack and jackie? natalie: well, it is one of the most interesting aspects of the story to me because she was a woman who really defined herself sort of in that era through her took that role on for herself and thought the most important thing in her life was to be her husband's wife and to be the best wife to him as possible. she says come and we have her in the movie with a real quote,
that it was their happiest years in the white house because before she was seen as this liability to the campaign, that he tried to hide her away because of her sophistication and chic and everything was alienating to american voters with flourto see her up to her elbows, baking. when she got to the white house, she became so popular and women started doing their hair like her and emulating her and learning french. pablo found these amazing all of these mannequins put into this though. she was so happy that he valued her. that made her feel better than ever. the assassination, not only does
, andke away her president the grief with that, but it takes away her identity as a wife and then has to reestablish that, which she does, despite her own intentions to define herself as a wife. she cannot help be herself and cannot help but assert her humanity, her independence, her complexity. it is wonderful to see that a woman who has internalized everything that society has given her can't help but be incredibly strong and powerful and complicated. a.o.: did you find sometimes that as a woman of the present era that it was hard to get back into that reality and that mindset, that sort of older, more traditional set of gender roles and expectations? natalie: no, because i think we
a.o.: most of your other films you have made in chile have been about men and often ordinary characters were caught up in politics, especially during the pinochet dictatorship. to make a for you film for a central female character and also to come into a different social and political film,y, to come to make a not only an american story, but in american story that every american thinks they already know? pablo: that is hard. i don't know. second what for one
you are actually doing, it might be paralyzing. it is a complicated issue for a lot of people and there was a lot of pain involved and a lot of historical evidence that i am not in control of. how shethe key here was would take the character and how and how they shot the movie. the rest of the cast, we were around her. we were capturing her all the time. the biggest challenge for me was to make a movie about a woman and capture it as the responsibility that comes from a strength that we don't have, that we don't necessarily understand, and try to put that weight on her life and on her behavior and her performance.
i understand there are a lot of issues around the voice and many things, that i think what we are actually doing here is a story of a mother, someone who is some umbrella anda huge everyone felt protected by her. that is something that is hard to express. that is why we make movies. we need to use that media to express things that otherwise don't exist. there is no other art form that could actually travel in time .nd create an illusion it is absurd to have all these people re-creating something you know so well. there are something there want to try to understand. we keep chasing matt. i don't know, i thought it was very beautiful, this woman's strength. a.o.: can you talk about -- one
more element of the movie that anyone who sees it, and anyone watching this program, will notice that the music, it is a strong score and it is used in an unusually expressive way. you say something about how -- because i think it does help to complete the picture, to give some of the emotional power that you were talking about and to help us see that we are seeing a story, maybe a new story in a way we are not expecting to see it. the composer did this incredible soundtrack for us. divided bys different jackie's and the moments of those eight or 10 days. the music helps to put everything together, to reunite her.
all those ideas seem to be so separated and thanks to the music, it seems to be one single thing. even though the music is very different. what it really does is it creates a sensation and a mood. it is made not only by the storytelling, but the atmosphere. it helps create emotional tension with the audience. very unsettling sometimes, and sometimes you can relate. easy.l never be very it, you are from close again, you feel projected an annual feel -- projected onto feeld then you will settling and disappointing. feel settling and disappointing. i think it is proper for a movie like this. a.o.: it matches what the character is going through, also. what the audience is feeling but also as a goes back and forth in
time from the immediate aftermath of the assassination to the interviews that she is , tog later with journalists her memories of time with jack. there are so many different emotional notes that you have to strike. and yet somehow being the same person. i guess to wrap it up, her sense , or was,ckie is having having gone through the experience of becoming her, or at least pretending to be her. natalie: i think it is almost impossible to say who anyone is, even yourself, i is a challenge. to do that for someone you have never met is hard. many, still a mystery to
with a lot of really impressive life experiences and acts that she did, which are both brave and weak. a.o.: the movie is "jackie," it will be in theaters starting december 2. i'm so glad it's brought you here to this table and i've been happy to talk with both of them. >> thank you for having me. ♪
a.o.: -- charlie: regina spektor is here, the russian born singer-songwriter has been called her generation's joanie mitchell. equal part story teller and classically trained pianists. called one of the most talented musicians alive today. her seventh album is a return to her musical roots. "remember us to live." rolling stone says the album is full of brilliant, underdog songs. here is regina spektor performing "older and taller" in our studio. >> ♪ i remember you're older and taller ut you're older and smaller.
boob -- about to be fired from being so tired of hiring the one ho will take your place. all the lines on your resume and what it cost to find out and the things that you never have become your youth somehow you know everything by now enjoy your youth sounds like a threat njoy your youth sounds like a threat but i will anyway i remembered you older and taller but you're younger and smaller
o who's gonna call her and say that you're here at last? and all the days they were longer and the drinks they were words we sang wrong but the songs were remembered and time just passed you're around till you're not around and that's all i need to know every time you decide to stay then the world will make you go nd that's all you need to know enjoy your youth ounds like a threat enjoy your youth ounds like a threat
but i will anyway ♪ commoip i'm pleased to have regina spektor at this table for the first time. welcome. regina: thank you, charlie. i'm so glad to be here. i just love you and the show very much. charlie: thank you. we're honored to have you here and congratulations on this quite something. regina: thank you. charlie: does the reference to joanie mitchell please you? regina: very much so to me, she's one of the most incredible and unique musicians and when i discovered her music, it actually gave me the realization that i could maybe try and write some songs too because i think
in my mind it was sort of relegated because i loved so many bands like the beatles or queen or the moody blues and then there were the russian bard singers. it was all these men and for some reason, i just thought -- i don't know what i thought but i didn't think that i should be writing songs. charlie: tell us about your musical journey. from russia to the u.s. regina: i think that my journey has a lot to do with kind people , because to help both my parents are artists and artistic and they really believed in, you know, share art, share classical concerts. music was always playing in the house and they decided to teach
me music and even though my mom was a piano teacher, she really thought that it would be better for me to study with a separate teacher because then you don't have this kind of oppressive childhood where your parent is your teacher and they know what you should be doing. and so she was able to help and i had an amazing teacher in moscow. as a matter of fact, that was really the only thing that was kind of holding my parents back when they wanted to immigrate to america, was knowing that i probably wouldn't learn music anymore. charlie: from the same teacher? regina: from the same teacher or maybe at all. i mean, you have to pay for music education and nobody spoke the language and they really didn't know what kind of life they were going to have here. now that i'm an adult, i see what they were facing and it's
just -- it's mind-boggling to me the strength you've to have to leave your country, leave your language to start a better life for your children. charlie: leaving everything. regina: everything. all your things. the piano they played on, we had to leave. i didn't have a poor -- piano for years after that and the reason why i was able to continue my studies is that we moved to the bronx and my father took a night job and he was coming home on the subway back to our neighborhood in kings bridge and there was a man on the train who was older and he had a violin case next to him and my dad had played violin and they started a conversation because my dad is very much a people person and he loves to know people's stories and the man invited us all to their house, to him and his wife's house to hear some classic cal
music being played, because my dad mentioned that we hadn't heard concerts in a long time and we weren't really going to because that's not what we had the money to be spending on tickets. so when we went to their house, i asked sonia vargas and the gentleman was samuel marde rmbings. i asked her to be my teacher and she said of course. and that's really the reason why i was able to study music from the age of 10 upwards and have the skills. charlie: and what did you want to be? what did you want to do? regina: this is interesting because, when i was really little, i kept saying i wanted to be a exposer and it was explained to me -- composer and it was explained to me by very nice, common sense people that it's very hard to be a composer and you have to be brilliant to be a composer.
but you could be a classical pianist if you wanted to and you could play brillyernlt people's works. somewhere along the line. i stopped saying composer and i wanted to be a classical pianist. except when i hit the teenage years, the thing they hadn't realized was that more than your love of music, your emotions, your desperate need to play, you also had to have the talent for a certain kind of work ethic and that work ethic is a talent in itself and i didn't have it when it came to sitting those hours and hours and there's that -- it's like the plane taking off. you have to reach that certain kind of speed to become a classical musician, which is basically an olympian of music and i couldn't reach it because i wanted to, you know, scribble thoughts in a notebook or -- charlie: you wanted to write
songs? regina: i didn't know it yet but yeah, i wanted to write songs. i wanted to write poetry. i wanted to read books as opposed to sit and practice. charlie: so how did you get to where you are so that tom petty and everybody else thinks you're so terrific? regina: i was always humming and singing to myself and singing a lot in the shower and i didn't realize i was doing it. and then i went on this trip as a teenager to israel on a scholarship and the trip was basically for teenagers that were interested in the arts and interested in discovering more about their cultural heritage and i was always, since coming to america, i was very interested in learning about my jewish heritage because it had been so forbid than soviet russia and so when we got to ierica, i went to yeshiva and learned about the holidays and
it was just another part of figuring out my people's story, and when i went there, hiking in the desert was so difficult that i guess i was singing a lot to myself as i was hiking and so all these kids started kind of hiking around me and they said you have a really good voice and you should try and write songs and you should learn an instrument and that was sort of -- i think i wanted those people -- it was a very obvious thing and that's when i started to write songs when i got back to new york. charlie: and you still play the piano? regina: yeah, i love playing and i love writing. all these songs have been written in the last few years. all my previous albums have spanned sometimes 10 years of picking songs from yesterday and from, you know, 10 years earlier and they've been mixed. this is all new work. analyze really hard to
your own work but i felt like these songs needed to be together because i felt like i -- i was ng and i was sort of in some strange way growing up, because during the making and the writing of this previouslyd -- i had lost people in my life they loved very much and it was sort like, deep dive into grief, which i had really been sheltered from. and then after that, i had my -- i was pregnant and then had my child, my son and so all of that was this strange, i don't know
this strange experience of a new type of -- living in a new type of reality where i felt like i wasn't -- i wasn't the child anymore. i was now the parent and i wasn't maybe carefree in the world. i was experiencing what so many others have been experiencing for a long time. i just sort of stepped into it and it was this kind of bittersweet welcome into, uh, this new type of reality. charlie: take a look at this we're going to show a clip from the music video from "the trapper and the furrier." ♪ trapper and the furrier went walking through paradise. they took some for now and they got some for later and they marveled at the pelts, not a bullet hole in them.
and they filled up the cages with pets for their children but a -- what a strange, strange world we live in where the good are damned and the wicked forgiven what a strange, strange world we live in ♪ charlie: how would you describe your sound? you've described it as using orchestral colors. regina: uh-huh. i think it's hard for me to think of myself and a sound because i am generating music a lot of the time and it comes from just being in the world and oftentimes walking, especially in new york, when i walk to a ace, i will write and then once that -- once i have to come
into a -- and actually really write, not just in my imagination. then i have to go from these abstractagery sounds into real life. so i could hear a sound in my head but then when i touch the piano, it instantly -- it's like being woken from a dream and you kind of remember the abstracted sounds of your imagination but this is a real life physical thing. it has hammers, it has strings. it was built and so you're translating yourself. you're kind of translating your soul through these physical objects like violins and voice and piano. so i just kind of explore as much as i can because trying to reach those imaginary colors and not just completely ignore them but be in the real world is a struggle. evolving as are you
a musician? you're no longer an emerging artist, are you? regina: i feel like i am. i don't know. i think that my interests -- interest lies so much in the discovery of music and just the -- the pleasure of making art is so great and the moments when i get to do it i feel so privileged to do it that that's what i think about. so it's hard to know where i am in the trajectory of how i'm perceived or what i should be doing. i just sort of think, oh, this is this song. what does it need? ok, that's done. now this is this song. oh, it needs something completely opposite. ok, i can do that. you know. charlie: how much of your work is auto buy graphical?
regina: also very hard to know because so much of the fun for me comes from the imagination and trying get out of my own perspective and experience other perspectives. i think that when i think of my tribe, i think of fiction writers and poets. and also playwrights. i really love -- charlie: like? regina: oh, like salinger and chekhov and charlie: philip roth or -- regina: philip roth, i feel like he's much more -- well, maybe i'll get there. he's darker than i am. [laughter] but i feel like with everything that's happening in the world, i might get there, you know. charlie: but it's more classical than playwrights like chekhov and -- golgotha also
andkufka. that's where i feel almost at home. in the real world i have to almost pretend because it seems so surreal to me. charlie: there are those who say that your music is auto buy graphical and that this album is more so than previously. regina: i think that in our world we have created a false divide between confessional artists and fictional artists and then there's this narrative that the confessional people really care and they're putting their real soul into it and it's soulful and honest and that fictional writers are just making things up and they're sort of arm's length. to me, a dylan song is not any less about -- even though it's surreal and has images from biblical and historic and all these other things that he's pulling from, it's north any
less of his soul than joanie mitchell, who is -- joni mitchell, who is writing from our life story and i feel like my soul and my personal experience is in everything but if i engage my imagination then i can look at something from multiple perspectives. as a man, as somebody who believes the opposite than i do in the world. we have to push ourselves to look at things from other sides. otherwise we get really stuck and also, we'd get these superiority complexes. >> ♪ he broke it into smaller bills change by the time he tried to buy the things he needed ♪ charlie: this is -- is that because you were having a baby and all of that? regina: some of it is that. that's a lot. chime he was born in 2014. regina: yes, but, you know, i
think some of it is just that it takes time to make -- to make art the way that you really hear it. i mean, there are songs on here that much, you know, maybe more song200, 300 tracks in one where we have sounds and layers and where we went down one path and then scrapped and it went down another path. so it just takes time. charlie: how then do you create art, how then do you write a song? regina: i feel like if i knew exactly the answer i would have a lot more songs, first of all. but second of all, i think it's a combination of letting certain stories and certain emotions -- there's like an intake process and then an output process and then when things kind of live through your system and you meet certain inspiring individuals,
you read certain inspiring things, you see enough stories unfold before your eyes, then you are compelled to in that moment to write a song. but i don't really know. i do feel like it's inspiration and sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't. charlie: when you write songs, do you think of melody? do you think of the music? or is it simply words that you'll find the music for later? regina: no, i usual write at the same time. o i will go usual to the piano -- usually to the piano and i will sing the words and play the piano and it kind of comes out at the same time. and then i sort of play it over and over, maybe sometimes 500 times in a row until it all just settles. charlie: did you just write all the lies on your resume have become truth by now? what does that line mean?
regina: it's really hard to say. the thing is, i just came off a tour and i was just playing these songs i just played in the u.k. and europe and i was playing these songs, a lot of them that are new to me from this new record and on different nights, different lines would hit me a certain way. or my own lines they wrote and i would think oh, that means this. i mean, it was -- i had this really incredible experience of -- because i had a before and an after. we found out about the election result in the u.k. and certain songs that i had played in one something es meant else to me after. and i feel like they are my friends and i lean on them and i don't fully know what they mean
but the comfort that i have of playing them year after year is that they -- they mean more than i know so i don't want to limit them with my understanding of them at this moment. because in five years, it could mean something else to me or something could happen and that line will take on a totally different meaning. charlie: is this both pop and classical? regina: yes, and i love both very much. classical is my home. you know, it's before my consciousness even. like it was just there. it was always there kind of like air. one comes up and comfort some comfort and hiding urned doors
mark: "with all due respect --" just run the tape. john: i'm mark halperin. >> i'm donald trump. mark: this is mark halperin. john: i'm john heilemann. >> with all respect do. mark: "with all due respect" to chipotle -- to lisa kudrow john: to kanye west. mark: chris christie. john: yes! with all due respect to hillary