tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg December 16, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am EST
>> you are watching bloomberg technology. president obama stopped short of saying president vladimir putin himself orchestrated the russian hacking of u.s. political sides -- political sites during the election, but he confirms it was done at the highest levels of the kremlin. mr. obama spoke at his last news conference of the year. more of that at the bottom of the in an unprecedented move, hour. north carolina's outgoing governor has signed into law a gop-backed bill stripping the incoming democratic governor of some of his powers. roy cooper is threatening to sue pat mccrory, who conceded the race a week ago. the u.s. is offering a $25 million reward for information leading to the whereabouts,
arrests, or conviction of an islamic state leader. that is more than double the $10 million previously offered. he is said to be responsible for thousands of civilian deaths in the middle east, japan, and the u.s.. david mccormick was eyed earlier as a possible treasury secretary. that according to three people familiar with the matter. global news powered by 2600 journalists and analysts in 120 countries. thiseally suffering tea -- is bloomberg. bloomberg technology is next. ♪ caroline: i'm caroline hyde.
in four emily chang. this is bloomberg technology. president obama vows to retaliate on the election hack and urges president-elect trump to take the kremlin's actions seriously. we will have more on obama's year-end news conference. and apple's $14 million in back taxes forcing changes to international tax laws. we speak with bloomberg technology reporter alex webb. and german hotel bookings all --booking site trip i'll go booking site trivago climbing in its debut. will be company's edge be enough to woo u.s. investors? first, to our lead. president obama vows the u.s. will take action against any foreign government that meddles with the election. in his final news conference he reiterated russia was responsible for hacking the democratic party in the run-up to november 8. pres. obama: based on uniform
intelligence assessments, the russians were responsible for hacking the dnc and that as a consequence, it is important for us to review all elements of that and make sure that we are preventing that kind of interference through cyber attacks in the future. caroline: however, president-elect trump has repeatedly dismissed experts' reports about russia's role in the dnc hack, claiming democrats are seeking to delegitimize his win. politics aside what are the , risks of ignoring reports of russian's cyber tactics? is former now national security advisor and , welcome to expert the show. this shows how vulnerable the u.s. can be. democracy in question here how , vulnerable is u.s. security?
>> it is very vulnerable. nationstates are getting additional capabilities. we know russia and china have advance capabilities. other nationstates, north korea and iran, have conducted efforts against private companies, offensive attacks, we know about sony corporation. caroline: plenty of hacks throughout the week. you were at the heart of helping build the backbone of what is now cyber security policy. what is missing? what more needs to be done to help protect companies and the government? >> the industry and the government need to come together and work effectively. we don't have a national policy on how we deal with a major nationstate attack against us. we don't have a clear ability for the government and private sector to work together. we have to find a way to bring them together and defend the nation in cyberspace.
caroline: defending the nation, that mean as obama puts it retaliation? , >> clearly if a nationstate comes after the united states, whether in cyberspace or real space, we need to respond, swiftly and with clarity. you don't have to respond in cyberspace. but you do have to respond. if in fact russia was responsible, which it appears they were, it is critical the united states respond swiftly. caroline: it's interesting, rex tillerson, secretary of state elect it would seem, he obviously had relationships with russia in the business community. what does it mean for relationships from a diplomatic standpoint? >> tillerson is the ceo of a major company. they had dealings with russia and oil dealings. not surprising. he built relationships for that. as secretary of state he will have a different role. he is going to represent the u.s. government and policies.
he is going to take the u.s. government line, not the exxon mobil line. i am sure he will do it effectively if he is confirmed. caroline: what will that line be? it seems to be a warmer embrace being showed to russia. what does that mean in terms of cyber security? will the walls get higher? maybe more protecting themselves from a cyber security point of view? >> no doubt we have to protect ourselves effectively on cyber security. it is not just russia and china. not just north korea and iran. it is unclear if there will have a warmer relationship with russia. people have taken that view because of statements president-elect trump made during the campaign and mr. tillerson's relationship with russia. russia is doing a lot of bad stuff. they are getting involved in ukraine. they are involved in syria in an interesting way that sometimes may look supportive of the u.s., but problematic of the syrian rebels we are supporting. russia is not a good actor.
the notion we will dramatically warm relations, i'm not sure how it is going to go. caroline: it's interesting you are naming other countries. talk to us about the key risk at the moment when it comes to u.s. security, u.s. policy, and organizations. is russia a number one threat? or is there more? will it just be cyber security we need to be worried about? >> i think internationally we have a lot of security issues. we have isis growing in power. although we have taken actions against them in iraq and syria. we have russia increasingly aggressive. we have china increasingly aggressive in the south china sea. china and russia are the leading actors. for our companies we need to look at the chinese situation with international property theft. it is a huge problem. the president has taken some action and it looks like china is going to walk some of that back. it still continues. the core of the economy is intellectual property.
if that walks out the backdoor door to china and china's companies, that is a disaster for our economy. well outstripping any other problem. caroline: it has been wonderful speaking to you. thank you. another story we are watching, the u.s. is demanding the return of an unmanned underwater drone seized by china in international waters. the pentagon says a chinese naval ship sees the drone about 50 miles northwest of the philippines. it was deployed by an american oceanographic survey vessel with a civilian crew. china has boosted its naval patrol of the south china sea. photos released this week indicate the nation has deployed on reclaimed reefs. coming up, we will give you the insight scoop on the team that tax and their menacing name. all episodes of bloomberg
caroline: after 874 research notes on apple, one of the companies analyst is moving on. gene munster is leaving for venture capital. here he was weeks ago defending apple. >> look at the big picture. the iphone franchise is intact. it is going to return to growth and should stay in growth mode for about the next seven quarters, as long as you can see in a tech company. caroline: in his final research note he predicted apple will increasingly become a services company and would develop a kind
of augmented reality wearable devices that would replace the iphone. we will see whether that lives up to expectation. more on apple. the company has ordered to pay $14 billion in back taxes by the european union following an investigation that found ireland provided apple illegal aid. through illegal tax regulation, violating eu policies. the team that rattled the irish government and spurred changes in tax law has been dubbed the maxforce. i spoke with alex webb and london, who has written about the task force and its name. >> it's a great name. it is a slightly more mundane task force on tax planning practices. max force gives more clout and makes it sounds like it is there to exercise maximum power. the reality is that the head of that was a guy called max. he was given the task to
investigate companies of that tax practice in europe. caroline: the investigation went around the world. the eu, ireland america was , involved. what was the scope of it? >> the way it kicked off and gained pace was when the u.s. senate subcommittee started looking at where u.s. companies were paying tax. their approach was very much that they should be paying tax in the u.s. and not elsewhere. that drew the attention of european authorities. so apple isn't paying taxes in the u.s. and as far as we can tell they're not paying a lot of tax in europe. the argument is that they have money and ireland which is not taxed there. the moment that money
repatriated to the u.s., it will be taxed. apple's defense is that it is not untaxed because it will be liable for taxes at some stage. there were of course, ireland, irish politicians going to cupertino. people in brussels digging into documents, trying hard to understand this complex issue, which the commissioner admitted they did not have great knowledge of going into it. they learned on the job. there were questions regarding if they were able to learn. pickedays perhaps they on small things which weren't really relevant. caroline: this is yet to play out to a certain extent. when will we actually hear who wins out? this is being fought. what surprised you the most in your own digging? >> what is going to happen in
the next few weeks, before the end of the year even, the full decision will be published. within a few weeks of that apple will file an appeal but still have to pay the backlog of money. that money will be placed in and it may be that it is reduced or scratched entirely. the thing that was surprising that i found, just the size of the team in brussels looking into it. the ultimate expectation is with the european commission and the european union, they have vast numbers of bureaucrats digging into these things. a team of just four people to begin with. in my mind i thought their may be hundreds of experts with vast amounts of experience taking -- experience digging into tax affairs. they were starting from the ground up.
that was surprising to me. caroline: a lean, mean maxforce machine. i urge you to go and check out our story on bloomberg.com. that was alex webb. union pilots who fly for amazon are taking concerns to online shoppers. they are running ads suggesting the internet retailer may struggle to deliver gifts on time after a judge ordered striking pilots back to work. this is amazon's first holiday season since it unveiled amazon prime air. it is a fleet of about 40 planes. coming up, bitcoin is mounting a serious comeback. we will dive into what is behind y's stellar currencie surge, next. this is bloomberg. ♪
caroline: expedia's site trivago has made its debut as a public company. fridaygan trading on under the signal trvg. we asked about how he feels about going public. he sounded relieved. >> i think it is not super important where the stock is trading, where the price range is now. what is important is that we see the development over the years. it was never about the big show. it was rather about continuous development and learning. that is important for us. then we will see where the training is in a year or five years, that is important. caroline: we talk about continuous development, looking at your financials, it goes back into advertising and not necessarily r&d. where are you looking to continue to expand? does that change over time?
>> with have invested a lot into r and d and we are still growing, 70, 80% year over year. we are heavily investing. our main focus, our main spending is advertising. that doesn't mean advertising without a lot of r&d. the way we are doing marketing is very analytical. we are trying to learn and improve over time. reporter: when you look at the travel booking space it is very crowded. only you have your experience. how do you differentiate from the rest of the competitors? we are just a search product. we would never go into booking. we want to be a tool for consumers to use have a great overview of the market. we would never sell them
something. that's the huge difference. most of the players trying to get into that space, they think they have to do the booking themselves. we think we have to be independent. reporter: when you look at the new folks coming in, airbnb, expanding into experiences. who are allowing people to search and try to find things. it seems to be infringing on your territory. how do you feel about where airbnb is? >> i think they are perfect for us. i can understand if they are going into booking, for us it is opening a huge inventory. basically, rooms that were not bookable before, they opened that up. they make them bookable. people can find them in the future on trivago. that was not possible before. any player in there, we welcome
them. caroline: the trivago chief executive there. they are now worth $2.8 billion. like bitcoin is risings rising above the rest, its surge reaching its highest level since early 2014. this according to data compiled by bloomberg. the digital currency has outperformed gold, major currencies and the s&p 500. bloomberg editor at large cory johnson joins us from new york. why the rally? cory: it is really interesting. the performance is jaw-dropping. who wouldn't have liked to have that in any investment? fundamentally, what this represents is bitcoin has gained acceptance as a safe store of value. it didn't have that a year ago. there were concerns about bitcoins being stolen, disappearing. it does seem to have achieved acceptance.
you have seen rallies on the price of bitcoin, not just during the course of the year, but in particular when geopolitical events would cause a concern about the value of other currencies. it is like gold but you can use it. that is the way bitcoin started to be seen. because around these big events, you would see a movement of this. brexit, election of donald trump. things like that. that's when you see surges in bitcoin and it is behaving like a reserve currency or like gold. around $778, that is the highest since 2014. back in 2014 there were real worries. we saw millions disappearing from certain exchanges. you had cracked down from certain governments. how concerned or non-concerned should we be that this could happen again? cory: far be it for me to figure that out. one of the things you see is there is a lot more infrastructure almost daily around the world of bitcoin.
more and more companies are allowing it as a form of payment. conversely, fewer people were able to meant bitcoin. every bitcoin is a little more difficult to create than the next. the miners have more and more challenges. it is more and more expensive to make bitcoins. there are fewer coming on the market. that restriction of supply adding to demand has resulted in this price rise that we have seen. caroline: you have been a hedge fund or of old. cory: did you call me old? caroline: all the old, not old. you are a beautiful man. i take it all back. you used to be a hedge funder. let's put your investment taxes
-- investment tactics to the test. is this going to last? cory: who knows? it is harder to predict how anybody is going to trade something. when i did my work, long or short, it was trying to understand the underlying value of something. fundamentally, currencies don't have a value. they are a trading vehicle. the usefulness of bitcoin has changed. the ability to create them has changed. the fact that you see these crises of currency in india for example, where currently has been taken off the market, and as i mentioned, brexit, you saw an interest there, turning to bitcoin. it is not regulated in china. for those reasons, you are seeing the underlying thing that you are buying has a different value, a higher value than it used to. whether the price is right, who knows. what bitcoin is today is very different than what it was at the end of 2015.
caroline: globally speaking, is england, china, the u.s. -- is this a truly global traded piece of asset at the moment? cory: the answer is yes. you see a lot of traded bitcoin in the u.s. the know your customer rules are so important. there is no way to use it with financial markets. there is a limitation to how far this will go. but you certainly see excitement across the world in this currency in a way that people are using it to store money. caroline: bloomberg editor at large cory johnson, the youthful cory johnson. thank you for joining us. now coming up, trump is meeting
>> you are watching "bloomberg technology." president obama holding his here -- holding his year end news conference today at the white house with russia and summer security squarely on the agenda. pres. obama: in early september, when i saw president putin in china i felt that the most effective way to ensure that that didn't happen was to talk to him directly and tell him to cut it out and there would be serious consequences if he didn't. >> mr. obama said moscow retreated after that discussion,
but after that, emails belonging to the democratic national committee were already in the hands of wikileaks. president obama says the syrian government and its russian and syrian allies are responsible for the masses death toll in syria. he says the embattled city has seen violations of international law. pres. obama: for years, we have worked to stop the war in syria and alleviate human suffering. the world is united in horror as -- over at the savage assault of the syrian regime and its russian allies on the city of aleppo. >> diplomats are trying to save the evacuation of eastern aleppo. in aleppo, the evacuation has been suspended. about 8000 people and the syrian rebel stronghold left on buses.
syrian state media said rebels were trying to smuggle weapons out of aleppo. antigovernment activists say pro-government militias locked passage out of town. congressional republicans have closed a year-long investigation into flint, michigan's water crisis. the house oversight committee faults both state officials and the federal epa saying they did not cite the problem soon enough or take proper action. meanwhile, the committee's top democrat wants to subpoena rick snyder for flints documents. donald trump's choice for the u.s. ambassador to israel may represent a major shift in u.s. policy. he will nominate law your david friedman, who opposes the two state solution and he told a newspaper that trump may support israel seizing parts of the west bank. he later backed off those comments.
global news 24 hours a day, powered by more than 2600 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. this is bloomberg. ♪ caroline: this is "bloomberg technology." i'm caroline hyde. earlier, president obama laid out the rising risks of cyber warfare. pres. obama: we are a digitalized culture and there is hacking going on every single day. there is not a company, a major organization, or a financial institution, or branch of our government where somebody is not going to be fishing for something or trying to penetrate with a virus or malware. caroline: a clear example of that was yahoo! disclosing a major hack last week.
we have our experts talking about this issue. welcome to the show. let's begin, we were all geared up for donald trump versus the tech titans. it wasn't quite as adversarial as we thought it would be. give us a sense of whether some of the things you wanted to hear tackled were. >> the two things that surprised me was, firstly, i was overwhelmed by the amount of detail that carol fisher was able to get. it was like she was sitting in the air ducts. and also the photos that were published ahead of time, it looks like the tech leaders we saw were going through three of the five stages of grief. from what we read every major , issue was touched upon but i don't know what the response they heard from trump. if they really will dig in and
try to fix some of these issues. caroline: you mentioned carol fisher, she had a great line saying it was weird but not as awkward as expected. were you surprised by all the names showing up? who wasn't invited? >> there was a lot of reasons going into this meeting to expect it would be a lot less collegial than it was. everything trump has done and said about a lot of these tech companies like amazon and apple have been confrontational. so you had a lot of reason to believe going into this at you were going to see some of that same tone he took with media companies and the same things he is said about lockheed martin -- that he has said about lockheed martin and what he is has done with boeing. who knew what was going to come out of it? as of these people were invited, there was an initial question of how publicly i'm going to talk about, yes, i'm going and this is what my agenda is. there was a lot of questioning
internally at these companies about who should go, who do we do we send the ceo? you definitely saw them come out and once you knew there was going to be a few more ceos there, you couldn't send someone lower down the ranks. caroline: andy is a holder in some of this stock, you hold some of facebook. do you feel these big tech companies should be representing their shareholders? >> i think there's been a lot of vocal criticism leading up to it. a lot of people had been nonpartisan in their views about the president-elect. i think washington and silicon valley have to work together. there are a lot of issues from apple manufacturing in the u.s. instead of china and everything else in this ecosystem. we have to engage like it or , not.
caroline: interesting that one of the big tech titans who was not there was marissa mayer. possibly fighting fires with the yahoo! tech attack. >> it could end up, as we reported, this could derail the deal. i think what is happening verizon wants to do a couple of , things. they want yahoo! to assume more of the liabilities and not the assets of they acquire. failing that, can they renegotiate price? what is more likely is this is negotiating through the press. negotiating publicly. i do think there is going to be some kind of a reevaluation of how much verizon should pay. at the end of the day, yahoo! is still a valuable asset to them. we have every reason to believe they still want it.
yes, the hack was worse, there was more hacking than initially thought. we broke the news this week that there were a lot of sensitive government email related content government email related content in what was hacked because people use their yahoo! as a backup. >> not everybody has a private server. >> exactly. it was much bigger. it was greater and reached far deeper than initially thought. i think the deals go through but there is a reevaluation of what they are willing to pay. >> from yahoo!'s point, they are a very valuable property. where else do they go, snapchat or pandora? in that regard, i think yahoo! still has some cards to play. caroline: and potentially a significant amount whacked off
the price tag, do you think? >> yes, when you suffer an enormous hack. caroline: interesting that while the attack was taking up our journalists, there was also flying under the radar the facebook news that came out that they were looking to in some way tackle the fake news, trying to respond to some of the criticism trying to find ways to push down , fake news. getting users to help. what do you think of what they announced? >> this is a big problem. i think when something is shared on your timeline by someone you know, you inherently want to believe it. the issue is that this isn't just happening in the u.s.. this is an issue across everything will country. we saw it during brexit, during the italian elections. this is something where facebook has to think about it out rhythmically but using also -- have to think about it
algorithmically, but also using human users. they have a moral obligation to handle this, the question is, can they do enough? caroline: facebook seems to be in the line of fire when it comes to fake news but google, many argue, was making advertising revenues by being on fake news sites. our other companies being criticized enough -- are other companies being criticized enough? >> google doesn't come out looking completely innocent as well. the difference with facebook, it's important to note facebook has a degree of control. we're looking at facebook not weedto algorithmically things out, we are looking for our friends to see what they are reading and we expect facebook to play a certain role in helping us assess what is news and what is important. what is happening at facebook right now is this debate over are we a tech company, are we a
media company? they want to be seen as a technology company. our algorithms will solve this for you. but they can't get away from at least having some association with being a media player. if they can't strike that balance, users are going to feel like facebook is losing credibility. advertisers will think twice if it is somewhere where they want to put their ad dollars. if we can't trust facebook to curate for us. caroline: in how you brought up other regions, we have a political year coming up with french elections, german elections. you are a man who invest in europe. fromt come to the valley berlin, looking at the european tech scene. give us a sense of how the u.s. is looking at europe and what we -- and what 2017 holds? >> the watchword is
still unpredictability. we don't know what's going to happen. we saw from the brexit result through now, this kind of will it, won't it happen. one thing that is very true is great companies are still being built. and great companies are being sold. and great companies are being sold. an industrial park somewhere outside of edinburgh. vcs will be looking at europe for great companies, great company's were they can get in at a great price and make a great return in the future. vcs, question for european are they selling too soon? we want to see these unicorns in the u k and elsewhere in europe not just get to the billion dollar point but multibillion dollar point and stay independent for a wild so they soand dependent for a while
they can prove to themselves they are strong. >> once a company reaches some scale in europe, the question is do they have to be in the bay area or in new york to get a higher scale? even in the u.s., becoming google or facebook is one in a million. europe simply doesn't have the number of companies and the scale and support they can produce a company of the nature of facebook. in 10 years ago, that could be different. perhaps the vcs have to be bolder and have to push the companies to stay independent for longer to produce that. in the meantime, selling a company for $1.3 billion is still great. caroline: and more money back into the ecosystem. great to have you. thank you very much. a great conversation. coming up, foursquare is taking its recommendations to a whole new level. we'll sit down with the ceo
caroline: foursquare, so many ups and downs over the past years and the company is finally finding its footing. our correspondent set down with the founder and the chief executive. we found out about its latest project in the future of artificial intelligence. >> this was a little bit of an experiment. can you build a piece of technology and never think about it? marsbot will give you notice when you are somewhere that this restaurant opened up. it will text you occasionally and say, i know you are at this coffee shop, he should try this one instead. you think of siri where you
always have to ask for something, but we change that of and marsbot wakes you up and tells you about something. -- reporter: have you found that consumers like that model? >> we do experiments like marsbot, we create apps like that to learn from them. does this work, do people like this, doesn't feel right, is it too heavy? we have a number of people who use it. it is not the biggest app in the united states. we hear from people all the time that it's really interesting, it will be cool to see where it is a year from now. >> i think marsbot and foursquare are experiments for us in understanding that people
should have a more random experience, a spotify discovery approach to the world. we all live in the urban places where new places our opening there's all kinds of memorable experiences. you don't have to settle for the same old, same old. one of the memorable things about foursquare is we talk about not spending your entire life in front of a screen. but getting out and exploring the world. game, who didf a most interesting thing this week? who tried the new soup dumpling place or explored a new neighborhood and earned points? are getting out and experiencing the world. that has always been the ego's -- that has always been the eth os of foursquare, so marsbot is an experiment to push you to try
something new each week. reporter: there's been a time of development in this space whether it is personal cortana,e, alexei, where do you think we are in the development of these devices? >> there are a lot of people experimenting with it right now. google just launched google home and you can speak to it the same way you can talk to alexa. i think the grand vision -- did you ever see that movie "her" with scarlett johansson where it is talking to you all the time? i think something like that will exist at some point. whether he will be called alexa marsbotor cortana or remains to be seen. there are a lot of companies experimenting with different models of interaction with the goal of getting to that place. reporter: foursquare is a developing technology with
assets that could fit well into a number of companies. if you received an acquisition offer, would you take it? >> we have been focused on growing an independent, sustainable company. the mantra of the company is growing into a sustainable , profitable business. we have a direct line of sight, we have a plan and that is where we are focused. ultimately, whether foursquare becomes a company that could go public, that is not something we spend a lot of time thinking about. we want to build a company that is going to live on for a long time and get a chance to fulfill its destiny. foursquare'st was cofounder and chief executive. coming up, a new app wants to give you a reason to see your favorite band in concert. we will take you in a deep dive in a startup. this is bloomberg. ♪
caroline: so, you want to see your favorite band in concert but you're not sure if you can lock down those tickets. well enter songkick. the app that provides tickets without competing with bots. bloombergs david leonard wrote all about the app. he explained how it worked. >> it is a company called songkick. the ceo is a young upstart, he is from england. he was able to start selling tickets directly for artists over in england. he was originally a promoter who promoted adele and people like that when they were sort of unknown. he started selling tickets for ,hem and they were able to because he had the single crowd search, they were able to sell more tickets so they had a lot
more control over their business and he made like 10% off of each. what do you do after you conquered england? you come to the united states. caroline: but then you meet ticketmaster and live nation. they are a beast. they control a lot of the ticket sales. >> even with the merger of life -- the merger with livenation they had the biggest sales in the ninth date. in england, it is 10 different companies selling tickets. it is not hard for artists toe in there.o g but in the united states ticketmaster controls all the places. they negotiate the deals with the concert halls exclusively and they let artists save 10% of
their sales for their fan club members. >> who are they disrupting and who is going to be on their side? is it about breaking the agreement that these venues have or getting artists to come on board who want their true fans to get tickets? >> in england when you have multiple sellers you can disrupt that and the artist can use their clout and demand a number of tickets. although that's not really the way they put it. ultimately that is the strategy here -- the thing about livenation and ticketmaster, they make all their money from surcharges on tickets. they don't even keep all that money. they kick a lot of that active in use, but that's where all the profit is. they don't make any money on live performances. so that is a really important business for them. at the same time, if songkick wants to come in and disrupt things, they have to break ticketmaster's hold or force
them to give them more tickets. basically ticketmaster sees this and says we are not going to give you anything because you are selling these tickets to the general public, trying to start a business on our backs. caroline: a great conversation. get the new business week, i am going to read it. now a story we are watching. uber responding to california regulators who say that it's self driving test vehicles are illegal. uber says they respectfully disagree with the california dmv and these cars are not capable thatut monitoring and testing is imperative. uber says these cars are still on the road today. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." a programming note, i had the great pleasure of feeling and for emily chang for the next few months while she is out on maternity leave. i look forward to digging into all the tech news with you.
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