tv Bloomberg Businessweek Debrief A Conversation With Jamie Dimon Bloomberg December 24, 2016 10:00am-11:01am EST
global decade after the crisis, jamie dimon has emerged as one of the most after voices on banking. i set wn with jamie dimon to talk about the motor city's economic recovery. to discuss whether the strategies used here could be replicated elsewhere. and even though he will not be a member of president-elect trump cabinet -- gave a statement on the president up can make real change. >> done properly will have fast growth in america. >> that is all coming up in a
businessweek"berg debrief. conversation with jamie dimon. newst's talk about recent first. i'm sure the audience is as interested as i am. you -- it was a lot of speculation about you going to the administration is treasury secretary. was it a job you are interested in? jamie: i have always been quiet public is about -- i have always been quite public about not be ready to be secretary of treasury. i love what i do. i can add a lot of value doing what i am doing. host: there we go. that is the answer. when i look back at what you are talking about the next administration would be before the outcome of the election, you said you thought it would be very difficult for wall street guys to get confirmed. now we look back that we have several wall street figures, some of whom you know very well.
rex tillerson from exxon mobil. when you are looking at the cast of people, what you think they are going to bring to the administration that is different? what is new will bring? is this a good thing? jamie: obviously, i was dead wrong. upheaval.complete the republicans are in charge and i'm not been antibusiness as you have seen the democrats largely be for years. if you are going to be a president, you have to the best people around the table. that a few make -- if you work for this or that, it won't be -- you need to have the best team. they are not going to try to help their former companies. these are people with deep knowledge that will hopefully do a great job. host: when you look at that sort
of shift in terms of wall street, this is a reset moment for the industry more broadly in terms of what the american people are expecting what they are likely to see? jamie: it is a resettlement on how businesses will be treated. there are 40 59 people working in america -- 20 million people work for government. firemen, sanitation, police, teachers -- but if you did not have 125, you cannot take the other 20. been beatent has down like they are terrible people. it is a good reset. detroit is a perfect example for civic society, not per file prints -- not for profits, coming together to improve the lives of american citizens. the reset has a chance to do the same thing. you can duplicate -- you will
have a huge renaissance. host: you travel around the country and all around the world. but we are seeing in terms of economic populism phenomenon, when you look at this, what is your diagnosis from your travels and experience about what is going on and what is really driving this explosion we have seen, this economic angst people feel? would you diagnose it as? jamie: people try to diagnose it. if you dig into the numbers -- there is fear that america is changing too much. it is not like beer anti-immigrant. it was not even ai-trade. at the core of the matter was a frustration and an anger because of two things. middle-class incomes have not grown for 15 years. when you hear a fact like this, maybe -- usually they are wrong.
in this case, it happens to be true. andsecond is low skilled unskilled has been growing over time. unskilled is having a hard time getting a living wage. you need to diagnose why it happens. it is not happen because business is bad. there are a million reasons. there are solutions. solutions around training, work skills initiatives. i would greatly expand the earned income tax credit so if you are making nine dollars or -- an hour, the government even if you are single, we do it for mothers with babies. help small businesses. it is not necessarily good for big businesses. there are solutions. fixing corporate taxes, immigration, trade, all done
properly will have faster growth in america we can fix those problems. unfortunately, a lot of people talking about fixing the problems, they think they can beat up on businesses and that will make it better. it will not. that you'llve been be taking on two roles. board onn and on a issues about the economy. when you look at those two roles, what the initiatives he will need to tackle first? what do you hope to advise him on? jamie: anyone who is resident -- i am a patriot. he wanted to be about jobs in a growing economy. hopefully we will have really good ideas.
, if youness roundtable look at america, we at the chamber of commerce that advocates on behalf of businesses large and small. it has 25,000 members. this is representing large companies. ,hese large companies represent if you take fortune 500 companies, half of all capital expenditures of united states and drives a tremendous amount of growth. they're fabulous citizens of this country. they are philanthropic. everyone gets medical benefits. take care of our veterans, education, schools. we want to have the country grow. the be rt can take a very -- the rolean take a proactive and helping to solve problems. many corporate tax reform. we are driving capital overseas every single day. the government made a mistake to
act like a diversion was the problem. our tax rate is somewhat higher than the rest of the world. because of that, companies are the investing their money overseas and buying companies overseas. some of that is permanent. it is not coming back. every study show the reducing the corporate tax rate helps lower paid people and wages. to me, we should solve that problem. i am hoping the new administration can do that. host: just ahead, jamie dimon sounds off on populism worldwide. jamie: they want to take a wrecking ball to these companies. host: and what he expects to see on immigration policy. jamie: we're not going to kick 11 people out.
in the parts they are going to play, and how much are you going to spearhead those initiatives? jamie: one of the greatest disgrace is in ts country's 50% of the kids don't graduate from high school. even the kids graduate are not job-ready. that is a crime. that is a disgrace. that is america at its absolute worst. we are allowing it to happen in these kids do not have opportunities that we had one point did in life. we have to fix it. we talk about the government making things free. it is not about making things free. it is about if you are properly trained for jobs. in germany, a good percentage of kids at a local business schools. they get a certificate for a job. in new york city, there is a , aviation high school.
kids are trained in how to mainta smallircrafts. electronics, hydraulics, electrical systems. when they graduate, $60,000 a year. you can do that in robotics, health care fields. that is what we should be doing. it does not mean you should not go to college. it means you get an education that leads to a job. it has to be done with local businesses. not a government program. that is a fabulous thing because do to create jobs for people. it has a huge amount of good social benefits. infrastructure we need to do. in immigration, there is a bill that has been passed by the senate for proper border controls. it allows educated individuals who mostly went to american --
who mostly have advanced degrees stay. we should let them stay to build their careers. etc.,n, indian, german, and have some sort of pat to citizenship -- some sort of path to citizenship. if you are a good, law-abiding , but a documented worker, that you have a pathway to become a citizen behind everybody else. we are not going to kick 11 million people out. that is a rational and reasonable response to do. donef these things can be better not been done and it is a shame. host: we talk about immigration and you say we are not going to kick 11 million people out, some of the rhetoric we have seen has talked about these type of things. businesses in the
business roundtable will be the voice that says, we need a pragmatic solution in a way to keep people in a way to keep the jobs we need and frame this as an economic argument? rhetoric, that i thought was terrible in the election, i felt if you were black, jewish, lgbt, african-american, or a woman, we are going to support you like we did before. that is not going to change. in fact, the rhetoric has gone away. even the rhetoric about immigration. -- president-elect trump says if you break the law, we are going to deport you. the estimated the 11 million document -- 11 million undocumented -- president obama deported 8 million people for breaking the law. it is a pro-jobs pro argument.
most people when they get worried about immigration, it is not that they don't like immigrants. they are more afraid that the american way of life is changing. you can be multicultural, but still support the american way of life. --ember eight lincoln remember abe lincoln saying that all men are created equal? this is the only nation on the planet that was an idea, a vision. it was not a tribe. a lot of people want to make sure that does not change. people confuse a multicultural that somehow people change and that will not tolerate different religions. you can support that any multicultural. europehen you travel in
where this is also a deep phenomenon. we have seen it in italy and germany and france and the u.k., to be sure with brexit, do you think this is a temporary phenomenon in terms of how people are feeling? do you think it is a generational phenomenon? will it weed itself out? it is a permanent movement more nationaln redrawing borders, national identity, regrouping around that in what has been a decade of constant disruption across so many stabling forces in lives? jamie: we look at something like brexit, they were completely different forces for brexit. some were anti-immigration. some wanted open and free trade. people voted for a whole bunch of different reasons. i do think if you go to your been part of britain, there's a same frustration on income equality, lost jobs. europe, .5%, not the u.k.,
not germany, but 25% of people between 21 and 35 are not working. is that a sustainable thing? there is legitimate frustration on white is that -- on why is that? america, iu saw in wanted change. they wanted wrecking ball brought to these governments. they want change. they were not necessarily voting for a lot of things people said. they want something different than they had seen. we want things to be better. populism itself in a very destructive. it can destroy things. look at venezuela, cuba, argentina, which is now going the other way. with your, keep in mind, keep in , since world war ii, they
♪ host: you talk a lot about how getting things done and how government policy is the structure to get things done. , with aok at detroit $100 million investment over 2.5 years. it is a lot about nonpartisanship. people coming together and not be driven by policy differences between people. how is that working? was it just that it was a situation where that could work? do you see that being able to
replicate it in the climate on a national level? jamie: detroit effort started when i sat down. . went to see lee saunders i walk in the room and say what you say about this? he and i hit it off and he started to tell me about the problems in detroit. i called up peter. we did all the heavy lifting. door-to-door, a white man in a mostly black community got elected. he was talking about what he needed in detroit? we need the streetlights on. when i first came on, 30,000 of them did not work. many jobs, affordable housing. we need training and skills. we did entrepreneurs
of color fund. 30 businesses were helped by this fund doing training. one of them work on your light project here. , but this mayor had this huge set of problems. he had to focus on all of them. it does not work to do one. he had to bring hope back businesses back, get training, schools, police, sanitation, the sidewalks, and with a smile. [laughter] he set up all these things. we had a war room for the lights, the sanitation, constantly tracking it all, and it is working. it was because of the mayor and th government. aboutt give a damn democrats and republicans. what will make this work for society? we were all in.
we did not come in and throw money at it. the team came up and it was peter, who asked, what you need? -- someone came up with this idea and we funded it. user iphones and ipads and take a picture and locate every home you knew. they can start selling homes. we want to be an accelerant. we want to get things moving so we can build a building here and get people into it. that will help the whole community. if you can start on from yours, that helps the whole community. working with the governor, the mayor, all the civic unions. there is a lot of thing that you do underground that we could possibly -- that we cannot possibly do.
we had 68 people working on projects for 20 not-for-profit that need help. we gave them data, analytics, money, advice, consulting, all the things you need to get through --you need to get things off the ground. this has been a grassroots effort. the mayor said the 55,000 65,000th light is going in tonight. quite an achievement. why is doing something like this good business? for is good business jpmorgan as well as detroit? jamie: it is not like the lack morality. we are the largest bank in detroit. we were the national bank in detroit started by general motors in 1934 in the depression. most of the banks were closing.
one merged with j.p. morgan chase. we are the largest bank. is an important town for us. it really did not have a renaissance in the 1980's, 1990's come into thousands. most other cities did. we knew this was coming for 20 years. it shows you the worst part about public policy. you can throw money at it. it took the train wreck to happen to bring in a major -- to bring any mayor with a vision and skills. if we can hit the city -- we can help the city come it helps our business. it can be a shining example of the right way to do things in society. for us, if we could do it here, remember, the bank here and we need a healthy, vibrant bank.
we could do it elsewhere, too, and help these communities. it is good for society very good for business. host: when you look at doing projects in detroit in building this out, the projects have been centeringo be jobs around economic opportunity and expanding that, in making neighborhoods where people can walk to work and have easier access. it starts with the family, home, the job. -- ist replicate double that replicatable? jamie: if you travel around the world and i have seen all these things, singapore does it. it was part of malaysia when it formed. it was partially chinese, indonesian, and malaysian. than the gdpgher of the average american. the prime minister is pretty tough. he made them all learn english.
he major the streets were clean. when they had a lot of affordable housing, they -- he made sure that you could not desegregated not just by building or floor, but by apartments. p1 of them to know each other's kids and snow each other's foods. you can't force people to live where they want to live you can't make people learn english. people have to think what works and what doesn't work. same thing with other countries. i just mentioned germany's vocational schools. in germany is doing well in europe when most other countries are not. there are books written about it -- venezuela, ecuador, argentina, cuba, north korea --
what did they do? south korea, no natural resources. unbelievable story. singapore, no natural resources. unbelievable story. i can go on and on and on about what works and what doesn't. i worry about that public policy causing damage out there. in america, you keep on hearing productivity is low. secular stagnation is the new normal. that is just not true. we have had multiple wars. we're not educating our kids. but government shutdowns. that we spent money. failures in the health system and extreme amount of regulars him. that is why -- health care system and extreme amounts of regulism. all these things are fixable. host: up next --
megan: a new administration with a cast of characters that is very different to what we have seen in past administrations, is it possible, you believe it is actually possible to unite given this extreme division and particularly on issues like infrastructure that we have tried to get in this country for two decades now, on tax reform, talking about regulation as well, do you think you will be able to lead and business will take a bigger role in saying this needs to get done? jamie: business has to have a seat at the table. ok? infrastructure will not be built properly without business having a seat at the table. schooling is not going to happen if businesses don't work with schools about what kind of jobs they really need. so yes, business can be a huge positive in the development of an infrastructure plan.
the democrats, spend money, just spend money, and we do a lot of that. even larry summers wrote about this bridge in cambridge, a little bridge, five years being rebuilt. it is corruption, folks. don't tell me it is not corrupti. people are buying up their local mayors, friends, unions. sohe democrats are right. we need infrastructure. we don't need it to create jobs. you remember that old milton friedman story? milton friedman was in an asia somewhere and they are building a highway and they have big machines and they are all using shovels. he says why are using shovels? he says, mr. freeman, that's a great question, jobs. he said, in that case, why don't you use spoons? [laughter] jamie: that is the democratic mentality.
it will create jobs, but if it is a bridge to nowhere, you are wastg your money. if it is a bridge to somewhere, it's conducive to growth, so the republicans are right to question how the money is spent. if they are going to do it, they will want to say, who is doing it, how will it be done, is the money properly spent? this mayor knows how to do it. we don't want washington telling the mayor what he needs. he knows what street lights he needs. there are things to be done, and i think business can bridge that. megan: going back to that milton friedman story, do you think we have done a good enough job explaining to people that part of the fundamental disruption that they are going through and friedman story, do you think we has disrupted your own industry is this move to automation, that some of those jobs, many of those jobs, including detroit and places where we saw a heavy swing in this election, western pennsylvania, ohio, michigan, wisconsin, that those jobs are
gone and they are likely not coming back, and training people for the kind of jobs, upper skill jobs, next-generation jobs, equipping our next generation, are we doing a good enough job explaining that to people and equipping them to succeed? jamie: we are educating people the wrong way. technology is the greatest thing that happened in mankind. until we had agricultural, we would still be hunting buffalo and living in tents. agriculture, specialization, specialization created a knowledge, knowledge built on top of each other building institutions, and we went from fire to the wheel to steam engines to wonderful phones in our pockets. this is the reason that mankind is living the way it lives today. i'm not going to deny the problems we have, but we would not be living where we are today. when my grandfather was born,
there were no cars -- 1897 -- no planes, no health care. you got sick, you died. ok? so now it is 120 years later and it is pretty good over the time, and mankind has gotten better and better. there is a book called "the better angels of our nature," and it analyzed things like people who were murdered at the hands of other people, and that number has been coming down every single century for the last 20 centuries, including last century, which included world war i and world war ii. i believe this entry so far is better than last century, despite what you read in the paper, so mankind is slowly learning how to get better. technology drives it. yes, it is scary. it changes things. it is disruptive. what we need to do is not hold back technology, let's use it to improve mankind. people are worried about autonomous driving. 40,000 people a year die and -- in cars, 40,000 people. when we have autonomous driving, it will probably be 5000 people.
it will be a good thing, not a bad thing. warren buffett talks about 11 million people working on farms 40 years ago or 50 years ago, and now it is a million. that is a good thing. you want people to go back picking corn? is that going to make society better? not really. mankind has gone from seven days a week, six days a week, and five days a week, and i suspect that we are down to four as we speak. we will adjust if we need to adjust. if you and i are running the government and all of a suddenly there are going to be 10,000 jobs lost, we would do something, slow down, retrain. this is not about youth. it is about good paying jobs. how do you do with that? if he loses a job, he doesn't want to go back to earning seven dollars an hour. he has a family and wants to live with dignity. there you can redevelop, train, and do things to ease that issue and make jobs available and
stuff like that. i think it is doable. i wouldn't stop it. megan: this is why, and i'm glad you brought up trade, people who feel that global trade has hollowed out their community, their manufacturing, their industry in the part of the world where they grew up. it's very difficult to explain to people that globalization generally lifts the boats higher, but may not have lifted your boat. factories in mexico, labor cheaper, and you can get the product done just as well, that is a message that we see came flying back in this election cycle, everywhere across the world, and people are saying that resisting globalization, that is a trend that if it deepens will be bad for business and your business? jamie: there are issues where globalization was unfair.
i won't go through, you could say steel or something like that. there are issues where we did not deal with disruption properly. hugely beneficial to mankind. hugely beneficial to the united states. maybe 2% people are hurt, but we all get cheaper sneakers, but now someone lost their job. now most manufacturing jobs, everyone estimates automation has generally been a good thing. these are tough jobs. mankind adjusts. i would be in favor of having proper trade, fair trade, that is a legitimate issue to be fair, that helps american net-net-net, but where it is negative, in the tpp, there was a thing called trade adjustment assistance where people can say this hurts my community or my business and they get relocation, redevelopment, retraining, assistance, all those things.
the republicans always worry about that. the concept is very good. we just need to find a way to broaden it out so people say, fine, i understand society will take care of me too because i am a net loser from this thing. megan: coming up, dimon's take on minimum wage. jamie: raise it. share the wealth, ok? ♪ . .
megan: let's talk about regulation, which you have mentioned as one of the policy issues. when i talk to people on the street and regulation in the financial sector in particular and we see the rolling back of certain parts, dodd-frank, other stuff brought in since the crisis, and there is concern it will go back to a less regulated, and less regulated means more risky, and that there will be no way to control the more esoteric corners of the world and that risk will migrate there.
i know you think they have gone too far in certain respects. how do you see that playing out over the next four years? jamie: it is a legitimate, j.p. morgan did not jeopardize the system. we did not cause the crisis. we have more capital than we had back then. how much do think we lost in the nine quarters after the lehman crisis? people guess $5 million, $10 million. we made $20 billion. we helped. we bought wamu. we saved 30,000 jobs, and in doing so, helped governments, cities, schools. i understand the concept. the american public saw a disaster. it wasn't their fault. it was generally wall street and washington. they absolutely have the right to say that we want a safe banking system that does not take down my economy. that does not mean there for all these rules and regulations are good. they are unrelated. the american public has been
told that. what ever the banks want, don't do it. strength dodd-frank, that is not accurate. a lot of these things in dodd-fnk had nothing to do with the crisis, zero, just certain democrats who put things in because they felt like it. if it had the name of a senator on it, that was the bad part. barney frank and i agreed that some of the thing should have been in there. any time you have done major legislation and major regulation, and they are different by the way, it is perfectly reasonable for people to look back, re-analyze, recalibrate, think it through, talk it through, talk about what good it did, what damage it did. folks, we have not solved the housing market with mortgages. because we have not solved that issue among seven agencies, banks and others are afraid to make mortgages to first time buyers, self-employed, and people with a prior bankruptcy. there is nothing wrong with them.
it was usually due to death, divorce, disease, loss of job, not in one case was it a bad person. they deserve a second chance. i would look at some of the the rules and regulation reducing credit available in the system, but do not create more safet i don't want to bore you with the details of that. dodd-frank is in the bible. to me, even chuck schumer said to me, when we look at it, recalibrated, rece the negative parts, while still accomplishing the ultimate goal, so it's perfectly reasonable to look at these things and think about what you can do better. megan: do you think the days where the industry essentially is feeling effects from the crisis is over, or at least
fading? jamie: the second tarp happened, and that was a scarlet letter. not every bank needed it, but the rhetoric was the banks were all bailed out. they were not all bailed out. that part was not true. no one ever asked that question, but that became a scarlet letter, and i don't think that will go away anytime soon. i think you have to earn your stripes every single day with every single client in every single city around the world, and that is my job. i am very proud of j.p. morgan chase. i am a proud of what we have accomplished. we help society. if we make mistakes, we admit it and try to fix them. megan: as we approach the end of the president's eight years and office and look at what he has accomplished in his relationship with business. you have had an up-and-down relationship with the administration. if you are being candid, what grade letter would you give him on what he has done for business? jamie: i will not do that. [laughter] jamie: i wish they had spent more time having conversations about what works and what doesn't work, and working with business, and not acting like business was the opposite.
democrats often, i'm going to take care of you, you, you. i'm going to give you free education, and it is almost like, i just think it is wrong. i think that whole attitude is misguided. sounds good, but misguided. i listen to bernie sanders speak sometimes. he wants insurance for everybody, pension benefits for everybody, good paying jobs for everybody, education for everybody. the minimum wage is $15 for a teller. we train them. we pay people well. everybody who works in jp chase gets medical insurance. so that person making $15 an hour makes $33,000 per year and get insurance worth $10,000, and a pension and a 401(k) match. we do all those things. we train our people. we take care of our people. we take care of our communities.
we are doing exactly what you want a good company to do. somehow bernie and i are together on that. [laughter] megan: i'm sure bernie will love that when he sees this. let's talk about minimum wage? jamie: here in the american press, no one asked bernie sanders or a supporter, what is socialism? and how is it done elsewhere? there are two answers. it is never done well elsewhere. it has been a disaster. and socialism is when the state owns all private enterprise. that is what it is. you think someone would ask, do you think people would have voted for that? megan: next time i see him. but talking about minimum wage, that has been one of your big pushes.
you believe it is vital to growth as well. we now have a nominee for labor secretary who has been one of the most open advocates against raising the minimum wage and has been firm about that. jamie: i don't think so. what i read, what he said is that the government should be careful about raising its minimum wage too high. it should be a decision made at the local level. a lot of businesses, california and new york can afford $15, but upstate new york probably can't. he's not saying he's against state raising it thoughtfully. i am in favor of that. i would not be in favor of the government doing it and imposing hardships.
if you can do it, raise wages. spread the wealth little bit. we are more worried about the pay of our lower paid people down our higher paid people. my example is, that will help small business. so if you are a small business and need wages at $10 an hour to get by, then this will help you. you can attract better people. they will be paid more. you have less attrition. there are solutions to this. legislation is a key piece of it. i want to make the place better and i will give it everything i can. megan: a peek into the future as jamie dimon talks about his legacy and j.p. morgan chase. that is up next. ♪
megan: when you look at the world as it is shaping up right now and when you look at this administration, what are the things that concern you and the possible black swan events that could be truly disruptive? jamie: if you look at the geopolitical trends, and we made at a list of all the big one since world war ii, korea,
vietnam, afghanistan, iran, iraq, china had a border skirmish with russia, india, pakistan, vietnam, i am missing a bunch, only one derailed the global economy. vietnam had a huge effect, but only one, and it was the 1973 crisis, roiled the economy. geopolitics is always noisy, but with little effect. from normal friction, it is it better or worse? it's probably worse. there are more wars in the middle east, uncertainty around the nuclear risk, iran, russia, north korea. north korea has a bomb and will soon be able to deliver it to california. that is not my assessment. that is the assessment of top people in the government, two years or so.
that is a serious issue for the world, but i worry obviously about that, and peace in the middle east, but in reality, bad policy, us doing things that makes it worse, government shutdowns, not fixing the school system. you want populism and want to get worse, don't fix the school system, grow the economy slower. that will be worse for the world than anything else, and the world needs a strong america. our military might, and if you have served in the military, god bless you for doing it. it is directly related to our economic might, so we better be careful about the fiber and see if this economy and make sure we have that. that is the solution to a lot of these geopolitical issues too. megan: if the world needs a strong america, does the world need an america closer to russia? jamie: geopolitics is different than friendship. when you say that, it's like we will go hug russia. there are serious issues with russia.
they should be dealt with seriously. i think they can be resolved. i don't know that. i've am not an expert in that. we obviously do business there, but i would put that on the list of things that should be done. my own view, we should have a very strong relationship with nato. nato has been to radically weakened all these years, dramatically. and american troops should be side-by-side in the middle east and in europe to defend europe, side by side with british, french, german, italian troops, not just american boys out there. ok? by the way, that is exactly what donald trump is talking about if you listen to him. that group, the transatlantic group, should offset putin. all that means is that he can't go anywhere that is in the eu, and my own view and i've listened to henry kissinger, you can have a negotiated settlement of ukraine, and it is probably doable at one point. after that, i don't think putin wants to pick a fight. i think he want's to get rid of the sanctions, become important in the world, and be an excepted leader around the world, so we
will see what happens with russia, but i think it is a serious issue now. megan: there has been a lot of reshuffling in recent weeks. you are not going to be the treasury secretary now. when you think of your own legacy in looking forward, with detroit very much part of it as well, what is it that you want to be remembered for? what is it you want to have achieved? jamie: when i was a young ceo, the former ceo of the company came to me and said leave your legacy, do one big thing. i said, what you're talking about? international, whatever, and i think if a ceo talks about one thing, sell the stock, all right? we have to do it all right. i have to do it right in every country. i got to get the whole mosaic right or i fail. the one thing i want them to say is "we are going to miss that
son of a --." hopefully the world is better off for him and he made the world a better place. that's it. i'm not looking for any thing else. i am so proud of my company. i want you to know that. i am proud of our people and what we do every day. it is unbelievable capability. i still want to make sure this is still one of the best banks in the world in 20 years, so i am proud to be part of the place. megan: is there going to be a second act when you leave? any hints? jamie: one of my great friends and partners said to me one day, you need to do one last thing. i said, like what?
i said, are you kidding me? i live and breath j.p. morgan chase. i wear this jersey. you say, don't tell the board that, but i really mean it. it makes no difference to me. i want to make this place better and will give it everything i have got while i am here. if i cannot give it what i have got, then i should move on. if you're going to be the quarterback or head coach, you have to give it your all. there is nothing else you can do. and so when i leave here, no, i will probably teach a little bit, write a book. i have a lot to share. [laughter] jamie: get involved in business. i have been on boards. go on to a public company board that i like, the people, the product. i'm lazy, so i probably will go to new york city. i will have a gas. i will do a lot of stuff. megan: one last question then, if donald trump did call you up in a year or two years and we did see the economy teetering a bit and felt like things were slipping back into recession, would you take that call? jamie: i would never not take a call from the president of the united states. i would consider what he has to say. again, i don't think i am suited for it. if you can convince me, i would consider it a patriotic duty.