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tv   Charlie Rose  Bloomberg  February 16, 2017 6:00pm-7:01pm EST

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♪ announcer: from our studios in york city, this is "charlie rose." good evening. i am john micklethwait filling in for charlie rose. michael flynn resigned on monday night after reports revealed he had misled the vice president about communication with russia's ambassador. phone records gathered by u.s. intelligence agencies revealed further contacts between the campaign for donald trump and officials from russia last year. today, donald trump warned russia against interfering in their presidential election after the front runner accused
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moscow of cyber attack, can -- targeting the campaign. and now there is news that russia has deployed a missile in violation of a training. what exactly is what america can to?o that vladimir putin up joining me is the u.s. editor of the italian newspaper -- investigative journalist. edward snowden- the man in the flesh." welcome. n, set the gideo scene. what does russia wants from all of this? >> there is crazy stuff going on, but the russian part is not crazy. it is straightforward. vladimir putin is a ruthless leader of a strong, but not
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dominant power, trying to advance his own country's interest in whatever way he can. the main thing he is trying to do is resist what he sees as regional encroachment, and he wants to push out on the borders and get compliant border states. and he wants to undermine the liberal order that the u.s. and allies have constructed that essentially runs much of the world. so what he is trying to do any variety of ways is advanced russian national interests, pushing the edges of his sphere of influence outward, and undermine enemies. so it is largely designed to mess with other countries, ideally if you can, to get progress and elected. doubt on theo cast notion that liberal democracy is worthwhile, that these people are efficient, and if there is a difference between what is going on in the west and russia.
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john: how is this making russia great again? how does it advance what has happened over the past couple of days? it causes problems, doesn't it? andf i am a moderate power the superpower goes into dysfunction, even if policies do not benefit me because i have somebody friendly to me in power, if it does look like the u.s. is chaotic or the democracy is nothing serious, if there are ideals,ns, and on the they are shown a relevant, russia benefits because the world order that has kept countries like russia on the margins and delegitimized them, it weakens and allows russia's move forward. instigator at the this, would he be pleased about this coming out? >> he will not be pleased his
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schemes, which are all done behind the scenes in the dark, they are coming to the fore. and he is not happy that flynn has gone out, because whatever connections he had with russia, he clearly was sympathetic to russia. they have lost in ally and gotten in there is in the process by having contacts revealed. so this together elements of the situation -- this particular element of the situation is not good for russia. and now they are looking out of touch with reality and corrupt in the trump administration and it does help russia, because anything that hurts the u.s. helps russia. john: ed, you followed russian espionage. what is the goal? ed: completely consistent with what he said, putin has said central policy is opposing a
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unipolar world dominated by america. he is against america. what we are looking at inside of this space is basically a new phase of the intelligence war. and to understand this new intelligence war, the rise of the russian intrusions, the aggressive intrusions, we cannot understand it unless we understand the decline of the capabilities and impairment of american intelligence, especially the nsa. john: i thought you were about to mention the word snowden, which has allowed russia to do more with america and america to do less. snowden gotnt that on an airplane with millions of files, according to the intelligence committee, the status quo changed. whatever he did with those
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documents, even if he did -- dumped them into the ocean, they need to assume they were compromised. and when that happens, you press the self-destruct. it took five months to go to the sources. people working around the clock. all forces must be closed down. this was 2014. and in the years that followed, we basically have lost dominance in cyberspace. the russians -- john: let's bring in the european angle. if you are living in france, you are the -- you are intoxicated by the fact that the front runner is claiming that trump is involved. >> there is an underlying plan, to undermine the liberal system, the unilateral system that had been created by the u.s.
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and europe, has become this has a target. it is near the border, a weaker europe is very important to putin. theso he starts to hit various european countries. the interesting fact about the chrome -- who is an attractive young man who had the chance of becoming the next president for france, after the crisis we have had. john: it is interesting, fillon has gone on about being nice to russia. mario: the european camp of opinion likes putin, they think that him -- he is a good leader and doing good things for his country. i found it astonishing to realize when i was in italy and debating things, the fact that he got crimea. after all, that is russia, what
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are they complaining about. the sanctions backfired because the idea that started to become againstespread, also russian propaganda, they were excellent with the propaganda. putin has played a month -- a masterful game. the sanctions are hitting the european countries more than the u.s. john: one interesting thing seems to be that the europeans are telling donald trump repeatedly, keep the sanctions on. particularlys american and the fact that they are all part of the same group, let's say, at the european level. but the public opinion thinks differently, so there is that aspect. and it is interesting, because you have russian media, like russia talk. gossip,ik, another
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anyway propaganda media that started to default news about -- about thews candidate. that he is gay and married to his former professor. so they are getting into the personal issues. john: he denied it with humor. mario: he did, but they say that more will come through. think ithink that -- i is a little bit wrong to focus -- focus on russia as this nefarious operation. it is kind of expected, this is is.put -- is who putin if you have somebody that did not kill his political opponents to get them off of the scene, if you have less of a thug. >> more subtly. -- cuddly.
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beeon: he would still looking out for russian interests. the problem is not a must that russia is trying to do these things, because frankly, how hypocritical is it for the cia gripe about other people interfering in elections. this time, there are people in the west that are actually collaborating. that is the danger here. it is not that the russians are opening doors. monahan used to liken them to a burglar going down the street and trying to open doors to see if any of them were unlocked. so the difference is now, we have somebody saying, come in and be part of our election and undermine our system. that is the danger. those collaborating with the russians, they are the surprising aspect. it is not that the russians are to besty, you expect them
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nasty and we are able enough to oppose it if we want to. it is the elements inside that are letting the enemy inside the gates that are the danger. john: there are european business leaders as well, do you see that in terms of people wanting to do deals with russia? mario: at every level, the european businessman says enough already, let's stop the sanctions. let's find a solution for the ukraine. john: has he gone too far? the fact that people are debating whether russia is intervening in elections, that is not the way to encourage friends. ed: the interesting thing about the latest sanctions that obama put on in december, we basically threw out a number of russian diplomat from the u.s. since the beginning of the years, thety, 150 quid pro quo was you retaliated by throwing out diplomats from
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your country. not, he invited the children of the diplomats to his christmas party. it goes to what you are saying about collaboration. we now have a phone call, a number of them from general flynn, just at the time of these sanctions. did he say something which led putin to think, if i wait another 28 days, which is the time that donald trump would be inaugurated, would you do something -- he do something to reward me for not retaliating? john: so having a good relationship with russia is a good thing? gideon: there are people that are so hostile to russia and is so eager to recklessly get into imagine, that you could
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russia policy that was even more aggressive than necessary and that provoked conflict and we should avoid those policies. imagine russiafor example, i have not ba fan of arming the ukrainians and i think what we should do at this point is contained rather than rollback. there are areas of cooperation, like the iran nuclear deal or potentially anti-terrorism coming you could imagine a workable and practical cooperation on russia with some issues. the problem is, what is being talked about it not that, but something much more -- let's be really nice to russia across the lift, all the -- we should all the bad things against them and hope they be nice. it is not used. -- naive. ed: isn't this how the obama administration restarted? ideon: i heard europeans say that this is the third consecutive reset.
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and at least with hillary, you would have had a different policy. now they are doing the same thing again. be nice to russia and hope there is a solution with it. these guys, there is something odd, that is why everybody in the field, every professional is reading the papers obsessively and gossiping with each other, because nobody can understand this. there is a cosmic force moving things in a direction that we do not see. it is the invisible force nobody is quite sure what is going on and that is why -- john: we have all said that russia is opportunistic and they have a long-term strategy, to make russia great again. surely on this potential possibility, maybe sanctions rolling back, he is less likely to get them rollback now with all this stuff about cybersecurity. gideon: i think that is true. and to the extent that this
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direction was a simple quid pro quo on putin's part, that is good get in the way of it. -- could get into the way of it. on the other hand, if the russians did interfere with the election in a way to help affect the outcome and if indeed it throws the u.s. into turmoil and if you have chaos in the world order as a result, you have to say as russia, maybe i do not get this tension relief, but maybe i am happy with how this is playing out, because now the world order is in crisis and because i do not like the order, i am benefiting from this. mario: putin has been working on this for decades. he was back with, you know in the years of gorbachev, and yeltsin and the kremlin, and he saw the country crumbling. he promised himself he had to do something about it then. it is not in improvisation.
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clearly he has vivid ideas about how to go to this. and there is also one thing about europe. i disagree with the fact that this is going to be bad for him, ecause itf the -- b depends on who will win the elections. if marine le pen wins, it is a disaster. [indiscernible] mario: it is still provoking. and there is a large part of the public opinion saying, let's work with putin. john: it is fascinating. six -- sits there and she is paranoid about what putin has threatened to do to her. mario: she started ahead of the game, putting out the measures
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to stop some kind of cyber attack. but she is in trouble, because of the syrian refugees. all of a sudden we have martin schulz who came as the candidate of the socialists and the moment he announced, he made a jump of 10 points. i do not see a problem in germany. if we talk about germany, we need to talk about germany partially responsible for the situation because it did not open up the economic policy that was progrowth, and i am among those that think that merkel has been narrowminded on this. gideon: that is a good point. it is the mainstream political parties in the western countries that have dropped the ball by not dealing with major problems in their countries and their economies a very long time, which allowed a general populace feeling to spring up, that essentially said the elites in our country are not delivering
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what they should as much as they should. that kind of dissatisfaction that the mainstream parties -- it created in opening for this to happen. and while i am opposed to many of the platforms for the populace parties and why i am opposed -- while i am opposed to the german actor, it is hypocritical to not acknowledge that this could have been prevented and it could still be solved if the western parties would adopt serious responses to the major problems in their countries and economies and do so in a constructive way, rather than giving tax cuts to rich people or doing silly pc things on the other side. john: to make a case for the western elite, which occasionally you have to do. [laughter] moment, they will look and say, this is what happens when you put a populist in. john: it is chaos.
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putting the conversation back on donald trump, how much trouble is he in from your perspective? look, the interesting there ishis for me is, an article in the new issue about the decline of trust in experts in the u.s. if you think about brexit, it was said, what do you say to all the economists who think that brexit will be a disaster? he said, i think the country has had enough of experts. that is the mindset and attitude behind the donald trump administration. the problem is, you cannot actually run a country, you cannot run in administration or the world with a bunch of amateurs. they are trying to do that and you are seeing its grew up -- screw up. this ends one of two ways, either the amateurism continues and you get up -- get a
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full-scale crisis because they literally cannot run the government or prevent those getsps, or this finally shaken out and the general cleansing is one step along the way towards a shift in which the in ministration changes. john: and these -- [indiscernible] ed: the donald trump administration is falling apart. the elites -- the new york times, the elites have never seen them so opposed to a president. there is no honeymoon period. they have come down at him harder than on nixon at the height of watergate. we do not know the pressures being brought on by the fbi, the leaks from the senate, and from the administration itself, they are unraveling.
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it is not like he is unraveling himself, although he does a good job of that too. john: the idea that donald trump has moved away from the two state solution in the middle east -- gideon: what he seems to say with benjamin netanyahu is one state, two-state, i just want a deal. rather than interpret the comment as, i am changing u.s. policy because i do not believe in a two state solution, this is somebody that is not know about the issue and never thought about it and it is his way of saying, i kind of want a deal, so let's put everything on the table and talk about it. and then people will actually negotiate stuff. it is a sign of rampant amateurism, rather than a different policy. john: so what happened with taiwan at the beginning? ideon: exactly. they have walked back to the china policy, they have walked
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back the idea of the iran deal and ripping it up. we do not know how far it goes and we do not know how donald trump, how comfortable he is backtracking. so this is an interesting guy, gary cohen, the head of the economic council and the guy in the white house doing economic policy. from goldman sachs. it is not just goldman sachs, people in finance that i know think incredibly highly of gary. they think he is a serious guy and they think that he is able to provide the kind of adult supervision that you are talking about it the interesting thing, there is nobody in the white house that can provide adult supervision on national security and foreign policy. mattis, hopefully at the pentagon, tillerson maybe. he has never done this job before, but he is a serious guy. and in the white house, there is nobody that does national security or foreign policy you
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can provide anything like adult professional supervision. and whether they get somebody until they do it is crazy. so, -- when they do not know what the foreign policy will be. months havese last made me more sensitive to the alliestion american feel at having their feet so completely -- fates so completely tied to something they cannot control. my heart went out to the entire japanese people and the prime minister, watching him forced to come out and set out -- suck up to the new president because they want to make sure that the defense structure of japan remains in place. mario: what i thought was
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interesting today was the big meeting in brussels with nato allies, and they basically said you have to pay up, otherwise we will reduce our forces in europe. and it came as a surprise. it was sort of in alignment with what donald trump says, and it is not in the same line of what the prime minister of england, of the u.k. said. behindd, he is 100% nato. but there is a constant negotiation going on and i would not pick on face value whatever he says. john: we should end with one thing. weakerexpect putin to be or stronger, especially in his ability to influence america in one year's time? mario: i think he is a strong as
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he has ever been -- as strong as he has ever been and he will try this day as drunk as he is now. and about what he has done in syria. news, in theany mainstream political parties -- i see putin being quite strong. ed: america is still a superpower and it has no parallel or equal. our army and nuclear forces, putin might have gained some tactical space. but i think the rest of the world looks to america for leadership and who knows what is going to happen tomorrow or the next day. it doesinistration, if not implode, it needs to get adult leadership. once it does have that, we could last another few years. sense: i agree in the
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that there is no visibility at this point, more than a few weeks or days ahead. this is all pretty quickly on so many fronts. they have been slow at staffing the administration and it is almost impossible to predict what is going to happen, more than a few weeks out. and that will make all the difference in terms of what happened next. ally, i would be playing a short-term gain -- game to keep my head down and not have things grew up in a major way until the dust settles, the storm blows over and we are back to normality. because what has been going on cannot be sustained for too much longer and at that point, whether it blows up or comes back closer to normal, then we can scope out what the future looks like. john: thank you.
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thank you very much. ♪
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♪ good evening. i am filling in for charlie rose. showcaseslustrated" the world's most beautiful and striking figures. joining me if kate upton, it is
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her third time on the cover. also joining me is an jj, editor of the swimsuit issue since 2012, and has worked on each addition since 1998. i am pleased to have them both with me. you have an amazing story. you started at the magazine sorting bathing suits in a closet. >> it is really working your way up from the bottom. >> let's talk about how this happened. you had been on the cover before, but not been in the magazine for the past two years. how does this work? do you have to beg her to be in the magazine, how does the process happen? >> kate and i have been friends since she was in the issue, back when she was 18. kate has achieved and has continued to achieve everything we hope for women in the magazine, to achieve in modeling and branch out in other areas. she was dominating. she dominates all the media and
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the industry. we want everyone to spread their wings and fly. that's what she did. she's an actress, entrepreneur, all these things. >> how would it feel to be on the cover? different than the first two? kate: every year i'm on the cover is special. it doesn't matter how many times you have been on the cover, it is still special. everything that goes into making this one photo makes it special. to see it on the cover is another experience. >> did you think you would be on the cover? was it a surprise? kate: yes, it was a surprise. i hope to be on the cover. but as soon as mj told me what the theme was, which is empowering women of all shapes and sizes, i knew i wanted to be in a magazine no matter what. >> and you are on the cover three times. i told producers this is very distracting to have this this way. why three different covers? three amazing
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pictures. they were all different, but also to who kate is. cover, andashion very sexy cover, and one more sports illustrated. kate: i think the jacket is the fashion. mj: also a little amount to omage toca -- h antarctica. that one was the jewelry cover. i said, "let's try it." that one is the traditional cover. >> do you have a favorite? kate: i love them all because of how different they are.whenever we were shooting string -- >> the white string. it would be great for
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topless beaches in europe. >> i'm curious, as an editor, when you are on site do you know this is working immediately? kate: she's an amazing editor. kate:mj: that's what it makes, to help guide everyone on set, so we can make the best image we can make as efficiently as possible. >> do you know when it's working and when it's not working? kate: yes, i've learned over the years when it's working, where the light is coming from, what angles are shooting at. >> is there anything that is too far in terms of how much skin you show? kate: there's a certain level of trust. there's a lot of skin happening. even this one, you don't know where you are pulling the jacket, etc., but there's a lot of trust that goes into it with the photographer and final pick. i have worked with him so many years. i trusted he would find the most
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elegant image of a sexy situation. >> the theme of this years magazine has so much to do with different body types. where does the swimsuit issue fit into culture today? mj: i think this years theme comes from the realization, and the magazine everything that the reality of the situation is that set on oneld be particular ideal of beauty. it is very objective -- subjective. body is a wide variety of types, skin colors, statures, all of the above. sports illustrated" has been one of the guiding lights in this evolution and cultural conversation that is not happening around the industry and what is considered acceptable, and what is considered worthy of being
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celebrated. allanswer to that is that body types are beautiful and all women are beautiful. different ideal. >> a critic might say that kate upton is still on the cover. mj: kate upton is the person who launched this conversation five years ago. ago, people came after her about her size and how she was not a traditional standard body size. >> you have heard that before? kate: yes. kate:people flat-out called me fat. is sheas a conversation, fat or not? that was literally what the conversation was. that isane to me,
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actually something we are debating. it shouldn't be a prime fat or not, it should be how i feel, if i'm confident, if i'm not a good place. >> so when critics talk about the objective occasion of women, what you think about that and how do you think about that as a model? kate: i think that everybody has the right to their opinion, and everyone should have an opinion. it's good for a strong reaction. see aood whenever you strong reaction to a photograph when you don't have any behind-the-scenes that means we are doing the job well. i think the most important thing body andg your ideal your goal weight be what you want to achieve, not what i magazine tells you you should achieve. >> you said recently, "the celebration of sexuality is in a really weird place right now." what do you mean by that?
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kate: i mean right now it is so debatable. judged by ifng they are too out there with their sexuality or not. everyone is judging and evaluating everyone based on hourly appearance. -- outwardly appearance. what i hope everyone will recognize and adopt is the thought that it is a personal choice. you can wear something like this on the cover of this magazine and it doesn't mean that you are not to be respected. it doesn't mean you're not brilliant. it doesn't mean you can't speak to matters of world and global importance. a woman that wants to be sexy is often judged as something that is not worthy of a higher level of thinking, or putting herself
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in positions of power. i don't think it has anything to do with that. it's a form of expression. >> 70 million people will likely or have seen this is starkly. aat does it feel like, being model, and with all the other businesses you have gotten into? kate: it is a huge moment in a model's career. before social media, it was one of the only platforms that gave you a name and gave the model credit. it is iconic, because all the models want to be inside of it. having 70 million eyes on anything always helps your career. >> are all the models friends with each other, or is this very competitive in terms of getting on the cover? mj: a lot of the girls are friends, but i would say it is competitive. we function differently than other magazines. everyone in -- woman shoots individually. they are definitely friends as
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well. it's like any workplace. kate: it's a friendly environment, but you are putting rhe best of the best in thei fields together. if there's not competition, how can they be the best? times,"e "the new york so i'm a print person, but the world is moving. dca day where they do not print those -- do you see a day where they do not print those? mj: i hope not. we are there. our digital platform sees millions in traffic. that is extraordinary. we have over 1000 images available on our platforms. i don't know. i think there is something very tangible about holding a magazine and being able to keep it if you love it. if you don't even love it, just to have it, go through it, and
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experience it. maybe that's just me. thinkingch are you physically about the publication and how much it looks like? how much are you thinking -- you guys film a lot of the shoots. do you like being shot in addition to the actual photographs? does that make it easier or harder knowing there's a video camera? kate: it is double the work, but they were one of the first to have the behind-the-scenes camera on the set. now, you see it everywhere. it all depends on the crew, you like there feel, and you trust them, and you know what they get our -- what they are getting. i think it's great. >> christie brinkley is in this issue. how did you get her back? mj: it stems from the 50th anniversary when i was shooting her, and in all of her -- awe of
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her. she brought her youngest onto the set, who was 15 at the time. i remember thinking she was extraordinary. a lightbulb went off. wouldn't it be amazing to highlight these incredibly beautiful, extraordinary women together in a magazine that launched her career? >> kate upton, thank you. nj day, thank you. thank you for joining us. day, thank you for joining us. ♪
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♪ host: good evening.
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i am filling in for charlie rose. when the roads in the showtime series "billions." wendy is stuck in the middle. as her character's name implies, she's also stuck in a care -- complicated marriage with the u.s. attorney chuck rose. here's a trailer for the upcoming second season. ♪ killed almosts killed the capital. that is never going to happen again. as long as a rhodes in that job, i'm not safe. change is coming. an investigation has begun
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into your office's conduct. haveatever choices you been making, they are not working. know.all >> you know what he is. you know he should be out of the job. he was brought up, it was always them or us. do what you have to do. >> i need you back. >> i work for myself. >> wendy and roads have separated. >> you have to accept reality. >> he's really in your head. >> i need rhodes gone.
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>> a cover-up at the highest level. >> i know you don't want things to get in the way of winning. >> the attorney general is called. he's going to fire me. >> you are good. never give in. never yield to the enemy. >> i am a survivor. i will do whatever it takes to avoid my fate. , are you?lf ♪ john: i am pleased to have you at the table. welcome. one of your costars described as a battle between two silverback male gorillas with you in the middle. as a hedge working fund manager, but also married to check roads -- chuck rhoades.
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you have a complicated marriage. tell us how it begins in the new series. >> she is the in-house psychiatrist and performance coach for the hedge fund. thes also married to chuck, attorney for the southern district. there's a pretty deep conflict of interest, because they are mortal enemies trying to take each other down. in the first season, you see their tension and conflict get more and more psychopathic. season,nd of the first there's a huge coming to jesus moment between the two of them. and also for my character, she realizes she has been pretty deeply betrayed by both of these men and she walks out on them.
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she leaves the marriage and hedge fund, and strikes out on her own. through the first season, she's a very powerful character. ,he has a good deal of insight and sometimes control over these men, and some of the choices they make. i think she has great hope for them. john: do you think she sees them as rivals for her? maggie: i don't think she does. there is something about who she is that pours a little gasoline under fire. in some ways, she helps to control that flame for each of them in the hopes of letting it be something that kind of sharpens them, as opposed to destroying them. she knows they can destroy each other. has ayou said that wendy
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lot of empathy for the male ego structure. she identifies with them in a lot of ways. i think of her being split down the middle. i do.: i don't think she would be in that job or in that marriage if she didn't have huge quantities of respect, curiosity, and empathy for who these men are and how much their ego and will to dominate really consumes them. fascinated, iels think she feels tenderly, sometimes horrified. she's a very complicated character. let's get to the first silverback male gorilla, chuck. it begins with this scene. it is not a normal marriage, i would think. or it may be. maggie: i think most people
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don't reveal what goes on in their marriage, if this is what is going on. john: it begins with a scene as i remember, him lying on the put outnd you cigarettes, and then do something worse. maggie: yes, it is the very first scene.it prepares the audience for something more exciting. john: he wants to run everything. do you think that ties into the dominatrix thing? maggie: yes. i think that character derived tremendous leisure and excitement from -- pleasure and excitement from surrendering control and coming up against his threshold of pain tolerance. i think it is hugely cathartic for him. when i first understood this was a component of the character, i didn't want it to be sensationalist. i think it is a component of their marriage, and i think it
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speaks to something that each of them was willing to make room for. i think of it as something that like, "i can do that for him." that allows them to connect. john: she relishes it to some extent. maggie: to some extent. i don't think it has fully worked out for her exactly. i think that is unexplored territory. i think in the series, the creators have been very careful punctuation.ost as it is not something they go to a lot. in the second season, you don't see much of it at all. john: that may disappoint my friend. maggie: [laughter] that may disappoint some people. they are split. it's not going on at the time. john: what about the other silverback gorilla, axe? you have this guy causing all these problems, and yet a lot of people keep on rooting for him.
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on the front page of it, he's corrupt, difficult, very greedy. maggie: yes. axe is such an interesting character. he's brilliant and he fulfills and taps into something about the american dream that i think people are really moved by, which is that he comes from nothing and he's a warrior. he's travel. -- tribal. something like a blending of the class system in him that is exciting and makes people root for him. john: he still goes back to eat pizza at the same place. maggie: yes. and he has so much zest and joie and a sense of humor. and also i think there is the question that gets posed in the first season. is this guy a sociopath? i believe i read somewhere that heads of and
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business and finance display those traits. there's a bit where your husband says that your patients are criminals peered does that cause problems? maggie: yes. i think there's an accumulation of those problems in the first season, and a donning revelation about perhaps how criminal or how much along the edge axe is willing to walk that she begins to grapple with and understand. i think she believes fundamentally that the rules and regulations are like this constant moving line, and she's working with people who are constantly assessing risk. i think she's not exactly sharp with herself. that is something about
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working with the superrich. people go into those professions like being a therapist generally target other groups. maggie: this was a question i had for the writers. is so someone who brilliant, so much empathy, so much insight into the human psyche. why these guys? why is this her passion? why is this her thing? with his --arrived muscular,also a egotistical -- she started out as a sports therapist. there is something about the muscularity and athleticism and the pace of that life. john: she has a bit of that. maggie: she does. i think she also recognizes that
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in helping these people to perform she can leverage philanthropy and other kinds of benevolent behavior that actually has impact and ripples out in the world in significant ways. john: how do you see wendy ending up? maggie: [laughter] i really don't know. about au said something lot of your previous characters tend to wind up dead. maggie: i don't want her to die. i have played a lot of characters who bit the dust in more and less graphic ways. i don't see this show really turning the corner. you never know. love,ll characters that i i think one of the reasons -- there is something actually psychologically difficult about when a character you love dies.
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as actors, everything is in our imaginations. you do like to some other sphere without you -- you do like to imagine that they go on to some other sphere without you, there's some kind of psychic emanation into the universe. john: even as those men are fighting each other. maggie: even as the two men are fighting each other to the death. i hope that she makes he's with her conscience about what she's doing and where she's doing it, and that she finds peace either inside the marriage or outside the marriage. she's a warrior. i just want her to be able to be as powerful and ferocious as she can feel good about herself. that might not be the most interesting dramatic choice for her. that's just me and my actor self , the romantic part of how you want to see a character. john: maggie siff, thank you very much for being on the show.
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♪ >> stocks about to start trading with the company's defective head behind bars on allegations of bribery and embezzlement. off of friday. a stronger yen and fullback in the s&p. three heights for this year -- trump berates the media and denies chaos and its administration as he talks up his first four weeks in the white house.

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