tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg March 28, 2017 6:00pm-7:01pm EDT
♪ from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: we begin with politics. president trump is trying to bounce back from setbacks last week. doubts arising about the president's ability to achieve progress on other aspects of an ambitious agenda as the white house turns attention to tax reform. joining me is robert costa of the washington post. on friday he reserved a -- received a phone call from the theident telling him that
health-care care bill would not proceed to a vote. trump who hedonald got understood him, and he mentioned your name. how does this happen so that you are the reporter he wants to call to say, we are pulling the bill? we discussed before i have known him for quite some time. as gotten to know him as a businessman and as president. i was working with colleagues on a story about trump as a dealmaker. deal with the congress he did not really know? i have been working on this for about a week and had put in some request but did not expect anything. i had not interviewed the president since before the inauguration. i got this call out of the blue on friday afternoon and he was pretty even-tempered, muted in
tone and he said the bill had been pulled. he started piling on the democrats and turned his attention to other issues. turned hisw he is attention on to the republicans. what you make of that? mostt: one of the revealing moments in the conversation was when he said, i just did not understand all this anger. i said, what did you mean by that? said, the anger in the party. he meant the freedom caucus and their content just relationship with speaker paul ryan and the moderate group had an uneasy relationship. he thought the party would be lockstep and would be able to help him with something this ambitious. he walked into a storm with all this simmering factional politics that had been playing out long before donald trump came on the political scene.
we had been talking for years about speaker boehner and then speaker ryan and funding. he is now face-to-face with that long simmering drama. charlie: the other thing you said to him, to reflect on the lessons he learned, and he said what? robert: that he is not a reflective store. i tried to pull him out in charlie rose style, i said please reflect, this is a big crisis. he said flatly, this is another day in paradise. charlie: had he think he has viewed the experience he has had the first 50 plus days? robert: he knows he is a non-ideological republican. he did not come out of the reagan movement like so many republicans that think about themselves at their core as tax cutters and people who want small government. a real hatred of the government. trump does not have that. but he has embraced the ideology
of paul ryan, because ryan and mcconnell, they seem to understand how government works and donald trump is such a rookie. he has gone along with them. the question i have as a reporter, and i am sure many people do in the country, is what now? it has not worked to go along with speaker ryan on health care. will he continue to go along with ryan and mcconnell on taxes and infrastructure? or will he take a more populist direction and listen to steve bannon? democrats are not exactly jumping at the chance to work with him. charlie: where does that leave him? robert: in a very difficult position. a new president who is not fully different yet all the power dynamics within his own party. a democratic party that is digging in the same weight republicans did in the obama era, still testing many democrats.
trump has a challenge, 60 votes needed for most major pieces of legislation in the senate, and in the house you will always 240 this group of 20 members of the freedom caucus that don't want to legislate at all. how does he navigated? -- navigate it? this is something presidents have to deal with a little longer in the presidency and he has to deal with it now. charlie: it is that the freedom caucus does not fear him. robert: they don't. he has political capital. he has done well in many of they aretricts, but much more of the ted cruz wing thehe republican party, texas senator and the freedom caucus were part of the government shut down in 2013. they see themselves as movement .ctivists they like that trump is antiestablishment but when it
comes to policy, they see that he is not really have a policy blueprint he is trying to enact. donald trump was befuddled in the sense he thought he could win over the freedom caucus and everyone in the group would be transactional. in the real estate world, you have transactional deals a lot but when you are dealing with ideologues, it is something very foreign to our president. they don't want a transactional deal. said thatt was once everybody has their price. robert: exactly. charlie: when you look about his relationship with paul ryan. clearly they work hard on this. he was supposed to be the closer and could not make the deal because of all the reasons you just said. do you think he has any doubts about two things, first, his ability to close, or does he blame the circumstances he finds himself in? he is not animated
against ryan in a personal way. i asked for -- asked him repeatedly about ryan and he kept saying, i do not blame paul. they're kind of like a couple that everyone says it is fine and you talk to them and they say it is fine, but all their friends are buzzing about their relationship and not in the best way. i have talked to allies of president trump over the weekend and they are concerned. it is a complicated relationship. president trump and the speaker spoke over the weekend, but there is still a lot of trust there. they know ryan turned against trump in some respects during the campaign and trump is disappointed about health care. who else is there to work with? he could work with mcconnell in some ways. the kratz are not making overtures. ryan is what he is god. -- ryan is what he has got. who asked for ryan's
resignation. robert: on fox news. saidhen the officials there was nothing to see here. he was trying to promote a show. -- friend's but around washington, people are saying he knew what he was doing. charlie: he wanted people to consider that question. robert: if not explicitly knowing it, i've been told by top sources that he at least knew the direction that she was likely going to head, that she was frustrated on trumps behalf, that she might take a knife to ryan. about the one show that went after the speaker. charlie: breitbart is supposed to paul ryan, correct? robert: they are, and they used
to be run by steve bannon. charlie: but where was bannon? was he overruled or was he saying some thing else? robert: i call them the bannonistas, the people at breitbart who are his friends. they are certainly against the speaker. inside the white house, bannon is more intriguing because he has to be careful. he has been careful and he has not built to any kind of campaign inside the white house against ryan. bannon went to the house on thursday night last week and said, i want a list of who is with trump and he was against trump on health care. the leaders said, this makes us uncomfortable. and that is where they had a break. charlie: that is what? robert: where they had a break between ryan and benin. they did not want to vote on a bill that would fail. everyone knows the vote is going to fail, you have votes fall
even further on the floor, so they might have only had 150 votes. the present talk to into having made a statement that he wanted to put it out there and have people vote it down, and so obamacare would still exist. what convinced them not to do that? robert: it was high drama. thursday night, bannon goes to the house and says you all had better vote for it, and ultimatum. by friday, the speaker goes to the white house, and everybody knew it was that news for the bill but the news had not broken. he said to the president, this is what the president told me, we do not have the votes. what are we going to do? rhine had talked it over with his members and they did not want to have the vote. they talked it over and they decided to pull the bill. that is what i got the call. expected --t is it where is it expected to go now? could they refashion the bill that might get democratic votes or something that might find
common ground between the freedom caucus and moderates? do they just want to get to tax reform? robert: i think they want to put it on a shelf for months, see what it as at -- where they are at in six months to a year. but it is hard for republicans to give this up. they've been fighting against obamacare for years, and today the speaker went on a conference call with the donors and said that they are going to keep moving forward on health care and the fight is not over. you're probably going to see legislation, on different fronts, but this wholesale ul of the health system is not a consensus within the republican party in congress. charlie: will tax reform be compromised by what happened on obamacare repeal and replace? robert: i think so. i was talking to some congressmen today and they said, big, tax reform is a ambition. how is that going to happen? how are you going to get the
votes for tax reform in terms of a lot of different things involved with cutting different deductions, getting rid of subsidies and rates for people? what is more realistic for members of the house is some kind of tax rebate, a minor tax cut plan that comes to the house just so the president has some kind of tax plan he can tout. charlie: corporate tax reform probably has a chance? robert: it does. there are not worried about these tax cuts being paid for. over the weekend, the chairman of the freedom caucus said in so many words he would be willing to do tax reform without having it paid for with different kinds of deficit reduction offsets. that means tax reform will likely move forward slowly. the question is, what is the number? will libya border adjustment tax? -- will there be a border adjustment tax? charlie: the border adjustment
tax, ryan is for it. robert: he is for it. the president has said he wants tariffs, he wants to tax people at 30% coming from other countries. tax was adjustment included in the republican tax -- but youeans to have a lot of pressure from retailers like walmart and senator cowan from arkansas, you have poor states with major retailers that don't want a border adjustment tax. if they don't include the border adjustment tax, tax reform loses some of its luster. it is a very complicated process. at the moment, there is no consensus. charlie: speak to the question of those people who were very upset when they solve some of this bill who had been strong trump supporters and they believed they wanted a repeal and replacement of obamacare, yet when they saw this, they
were in a sense, they could feel the cutting edge of how it affected them and they were upset about that. robert: that is what i wrote about a lot last week. you look at the states trump won, the rust belt, states that have difficulties with opioid addiction, high medicaid populations like ohio and pennsylvania, you saw a real reservation about the republican plan in the way it phased out the medicare expansion. some of trump's closest friends said to me, he is making a real mistake here, he is going in the ryan direction. the reason trump won the electoral college is because he won states that had working-class populations, some of them really rely on medicaid. for the first act to phase out medicaid and make major cuts, they thought it was cutting his political base. charlie: trump regrets going
with repeal and replace? robert: that is the whisper around the white house. when i asked him directly he said no, he did not have any regrets. saysome of his top allies they wish, in a way, they could've done infrastructure first, hold in the regrets on something they could mix with tax cuts and spending. akkadianrump is a most when he thinks about tax cuts. doing it in march and april after health care, is a harder challenge. charlie: the president has insisted that the affordable care act will explode of its own nature. do people in washington and people you know who are independent of political opinions of this belief that is going to happen? -- believe that is going to happen? robert: there is some concern that premium increases could lead to collapse in some markets, but democrats tell me
that will be fine, because it will be trumpcare. i think when you look at obamacare and how it plays out across the country, some states do better than others. both parties know there have to be changes made to it but no one is a willing to have a bipartisan coming together on that. charlie: and democrats who supported it, including some of the once in the obama white house, no some of the things they said were going to happen to not happen. robert: if there is any president who can wade into this and say i can work with democrats, it is trump. he's a former democrat. he railed against obamacare as a political issue. i said to him i thought it was a revealing moment, i said, you are maybe more natural negotiating with democrats down the line after this explodes, in your view. he said, some people might say that, and then he laughed. down, ite knows deep
may be a political disaster the way this and folders, but he could negotiate with democrats down the road. but if you are chuck schumer or senatorwarner -- warren, would you really want to work with president trump on president obama's signature law? that is a question. charlie: back in a moment. stay with us. ♪
♪ president trump suffered his first major legislative defeat on friday. his signature campaign promise to repeal in a place obamacare unraveled when paul ryan withdrew the health-care bill after failing to secure enough votes despite having a majority in the house. the president and his team could not bridget deep divisions within the republican party. running me from washington, robert draper. his new feature in the new york times magazine is called "trump what?" - now robert: i have been getting a sense on what he wanted to do. he said he wanted to create jobs and negotiate with foreign leaders, but he of made a series
of thomas is on the campaign trail, and i thought given this is a man who is new to washington and he has some unorthodox notions might he and his senior adviser stephen bannon, they cut across party ideologies. and given the fact that the republicans have not been in charge for a while and frankly, they controlled one part of the alert -- the legislative branch and did not govern very well. -- very well, it would be interesting to see how they rolled through. interviewingly people for the story, it began to pick up speed and as obamacare began to implode, i interviewed a number of people in washington including the president himself. implode replacement did on friday, we finish a story and put it out 48 hours later. charlie: it is called good timing. robert: better to be lucky than good. charlie: when you think the
president sees himself going now? robert: i think he is convinced himself it is -- it was never his idea to begin with to replace obamacare as his opening gambit. i think that is right. think a number of people had convinced him this would be a chip shot, something he could do in his first couple of weeks in office and move on to things that were of greater interest to him. i think he is a bit disappointed that people led him astray. paul ryan, he is not throwing to the wolves just yet, but it is clear that speaker ryan is on probation. i think reince priebus is, as well. human services secretary tom price, this is supposed to be his baby, and it is not clear what he did to advance the ball. the president is going to turn the page go to tax reform. he is eager to put out, as he uts it, a "win."
he did not have much of a vision for obamacare and his vision is shifting on tax reform. charlie: he has a new realization about the nature of republicans in congress. he may have thought he had the ability to convince them of something that they ideologically were not prepared to accept. robert: that is right. i think he came in figuring if theoos these guys, republicans, he invites them to the oval office, let's them sit ce's chair, they would let him do whatever he wanted. has troublecaucus saying yes but they do not have trouble saying no and that is what they did to the president. charlie: and the president saying it, look how much better
i did in your district than you did. andrt: a lot of us thought, steve bannon said to this -- said this to me and kevin mccarthy, that donald trump is very popular in these districts. they are working-class voters that will sign on to whatever the president and forces. that turned out not to be the case. -hearing from members of the freedom caucus who said they would vote no on this that they have been treated just find it back home. essentially the constituents are willing to blame speaker ryan, they certainly don't blame the freedom caucus. charlie: into the don't blame the president. robert: not yet. i think they will in the end blame their own house numbers, there -- house members, their elected officials before they blame trump. his approval ratings are down
but his work -- his base remains intact. charlie: tilly about the work inside the white house. about the worke inside the white house. there are always -- allies like steve bannon. there is a more left of center contention in the white house healing from the west coast. people like stephen miller, the policy adviser who occupied the hard right. and steve bannon largely occupies that, as well. men and is a clever operator. i think he understands when it is time to give up the fight. i also think like president trump, steve bannon was not married to repeal and replace.
it is not economic nationalism. it was campaign mocked up work up work. he wanted to move on to a populist agenda. i don't because heart was in it. damagetever collateral takes place, i think you will be just fine. charlie: look at what bannon said about ryan's tax reform plan. tothink it comes as close economic nationalism as there is." when you think of economic nationalism, you think of steve bannon. robert: that is what he told me he said to paul ryan when they met before the inauguration to hash out tax reform. up to that point, bannon loathedh lows at -- ryan. he believed he was completely out of touch --
and did not understand what the working class was feeling. on tax reform, the achieved a mance.f bro particularly over the border adjustment tax. i asked president trump, are you in on this? he said, i am the king of that. methen went on to explain to that every other country has an import tax except for the u.s.. -- the onlyre only full's that do not have it. that is factually inaccurate. other companies -- countries have a value added tax. charlie: how did steve bannon and donald trump come together? robert: they met in 2011 or 2012. , but reallytroduced
the evolution of stephen bannon coming into donald trump's world was a dinner with senator jeff sessions and stephen miller at the so-called breitbart in the sea in 2013. --breitbart embassy in 2013. they were wanting to do something about the latino voter. bannon believed there should be a more hardline view of immigration. that very evening, bannon tried to convince jeff sessions to run for president and sessions said no, i am not that kind of guy, i am content in the senate. bannon went looking for another
candidate and a couple of months after that dinner, he saw trump speak at cpac. he had met him before but have never heard the fiery rhetoric. from rock the house down. bannon had been interested in sarah palin. he saw in a trump someone at least as charismatic if not more so than sarah palin. series ofough a events that he insinuated his way into donald trump's world. notlie: for people who have read about steve bannon, how would you define him? robert: he is a very smart guy, he is an autodidact. he is one of those guys who does not complete a book, he will read a passage and then put it down and pick up another. he works late hours. he is a self-styled loner and enjoys being a rebel. he likes the fact that he has an unusual portfolio having worked at goldman sachs and gotten rich
on seinfeld reruns and ultimately becoming the ceo of breitbart and working his way into right-wing politics. he saw something about the american electorate that all of these self-styled and wealthy political consultants did not. he is very proud of the fact that he could see in wisconsin, for example, discontent among the working-class electorate that locals like reince priebus and paul ryan failed to see. it is for that reason that trump honed his message of economic populism and nationalism and prevailed in states like wisconsin. charlie: your book is "trump what?" ongress: now now what? they are saying that tax reform is going to be a win
because it is a natural territory for republicans. but the border adjustment tax is very controversial. big businesses hate it. my suspicion is they will drop it. they like it mainly because it scores them $1.2 trillion or something like that. that worth pointing out we've been talking about these difficulties as far as trump having with congress, but who does that consist of? house republicans. those should be the people is used for him to communicate with. he has yet to deal with democrats or the senate. in tax reform, lindsey graham packagers say, that with a border adjustment tax is dead on arrival. if it willto be seen be a win. house republicans don't like the idea of spending a ton of money. there are a lot of moderate republicans who would go for a stimulus, a lot of democrats
might play along, but as bob was saying earlier, it remains to be seen whether democrats will want to give donald trump a win. they may just let him founder. they may since a possibility to take back the house and maybe possibly the senate, and of course have in inside path to 2020. charlie: it is a fascinating article, thank you so much. robert draper in the new york times magazine this weekend. back in a moment. ♪
♪ "the glass menagerie" is one of tennessee williams most beloved place. the current production is running at the glasgow theater. here is a look. >> do you think i'm crazy about the warehouse? when ik i am in love spent 65 years down there in the selye tax interior of tubes? i would rather somebody picked up a crowbar and passion my in my brains.ed but i go every time you come in -- rise andin some
shine. i say to myself how lucky that people are. enough. i give up. self is all that i think of? it's self is what i thought of, i would be where he is. gone. charlie: joining me are the four stars of the play. i am pleased to have them here. let me start this. this is where you were. you don't want to see or hear. brilliant performances. >> we have to go back tomorrow night and all we will be able to think about is seeing ourselves. charlie: why is this such a great play? sally: first of all, people is sosay the language
beautiful and poetic, but i think ultimately it is about things that state relevant no matter what era you are looking at it in. it is about family and love and the complications of that. of trying to grow up and move away from your family. through a complicated time and complicated family, and that it is autobiographical, and tennessee really never did quite survive, he was a great artist, but the ramifications of leaving his sister stayed with him all his life and tortured him. charlie: how long have you wanted to play amanda? sally: all my life. certainly it is one of the great roles for a woman. hamlet, especially for an older woman. always. every woman wants to play amanda. it is as complex as you possibly
can imagine or make it. we make it very complicated. it is a great role, a wonderful role. charlie: you impart wanted to play it because you wanted to watch sam direct? joe: yes. i think mike nichols said the thing about directing is, it is like sex, you never get to see anyone else do it so you don't know how good you are. charlie: mike nichols would say that. [laughter] joe: yes. withted to be in a room sam. i said, your metabolism as a director is so radically different from mine and i want to know what you know. it has been an extraordinary experience from that alone. charlie: what is the relationship between laura and tom? tom is an older
man looking back on his time with his sister and his mother, and it really is, the thing about this production is sam has embraced the memory play aspect of it, obviously. charlie: why do you call this a memory play? joe: i think it means different things in different productions. at 54 euros old -- 54 years old, looking back at a story when i was 21 or 22 has different stakes. to be rehashing this story, being haunted by the story is different than a 31-year-old looking back. it is about how memory is reflected, what are the things that are remembered accurately or inaccurately, what are the things that get expanded? we talked about all of that as we worked on it. set -- bare set.
nothing. does that make it easier or harder? finn: you feel very naked up there. there is nothing to hide behind or lean on except for each other. joe: first it is complicated because you don't have anything, then once you figure out the version of the play, there is something liberating about it. i think it is difficult on so many levels. certainly the space as we live in it gets smaller and we own it in a certain way, but it is so enormous, the real stage, it is higher than you can see and there is nothing to let the sound bounce off of, so we are really trying to fill this, or at least i am, this really huge, cavernous space.
for me, i think i am aware of that and the kind of energy it takes to do that. charlie: tell me about laura. laura is in this production trying to keep her mother and brother together, and don't thinksweet, i she is very extroverted, i think she likes to be by herself and she is an artist, she likes movies, she likes going to the zoo and plants, and for some reason, that is weird. charlie: to the family. [laughter] sally: her mother doesn't get that. canlie: this is a play you go see on videotape, you can see how many performances have been done. it was a revival three years
ago. do you do that? do you want to see how other people have interpreted a character? madison: i don't. sally: i don't even want to see how i have interpreted it. same as is a man of the how you interpreted her when you took on the role -- is amanda the same as how you interpreted her when you took on the role? sally: i don't think so. i played her several years ago in a straightforward production way it is usually done. charlie: pastely. sally: yes. memory. soft charlie: what do you think you know about her now? sally: i wonder if i have really come to any conclusions about
here. i hope i have not come to conclusions about here. charlie: you continue to explore? sally: i think so, i hope so. that is the task now. the first run will be fairly long. there are certain ingredients she has, a fierceness about her that she is so deeply frightened of destruction because she has no choices as a woman in this era she is in that it comes out fiercer in her attitude than i imagined. discoveredry night i certain aspects of how much she much,about things and how how much an illusion she lives in and yet accuses him of it. charlie: has everyone suffered
the father's abandonment? sally: i know amanda does. i don't know about whether they do or not. even as amanda i have not bothered to ask. laura was sixgine when the father left, so i think she has memories of being with him, possibly the night he left. they are not all negative memories. charlie: sometimes there is guilt like in divorces. madison: children blame themselves. and then to have a younger whoher to look out for maybe has one or two memories with him at four. charlie: what does the genome and color bring to this play? [laughter] he is almost filling a void i think that was left by
the father. he is totally different person, incapable of doing that, but all of these people really need something from him. beginning, always late but always expected. delayed but always expected, something we live for. that,e ways, jim senses that he means something strongly to these people. in an idealistic way he tries to become that. he believes in the american dream and old-fashioned sense of that, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you can make it happen. life is not quite getting back to him in a way he expected it would. he was a star in high school, he was the main guy on campus, you
know, and since graduation, he has fallen off that pedestal. he comes back to laura, who still remember them in that way, remembers the hero excited him, side relic site -- heroic of him. charlie: his best years. finn: yes. but i think they have an unusual -- it doesn't go the way he expects it to. he falls as enamored and in love with her as she does with him. charlie: does that allow them to open up? finn: i think so. madison: i think it starts out with laura thinking she is going chmo,date with some joe s and it turns out to be the guy.
it is intimidating and she shakes, but she rallies. story ofamiliar meeting someone that was the it man on campus and six years later they are much more humble. charlie: the world outside is humble. madison: exactly. that allows her to blossom in front of him. charlie: it is in fact that he is no longer the big man on chastised ors been somehow had been leveled by the outside world. him aes her identify with bit. madison: i think i have always had a little bit of a connection but this is where we get to test those waters, it i think they do, they really click, i think they fall in love, however briefly. this how to see
williams had family, to relate to? he was haunted by this story and what happened in this time in his life. short stories, screenplays, there are a lot of different -- as we did research in the beginning, there was a lot of material that involved these characters. on some level, he was consumed by those early days with his mother and sister, and you know, became,those characters blossomed and became blanche to dubois. sally: you can find little pieces in other works. innda is in streetcar, blanche. how about the direction
of this? joe: i think what i admire so reallyout this, it is a bold and modern take on the play. it is very unorthodox and probably unlike any production of the play you will see. i admire that sam took tennessee williams charge very seriously, we must get beyond naturalism, we must get beyond the refrigerator and sofa and you can get closer to the truth through abstraction. to watch sam struggle with, what ass that mean in 2017 opposed to 1945, we took that charge as a group very seriously. made choices that were were not cavalier, they were not meant to disrespect --
charlie: how do you mean we took it as a group? joe: we took his idea of how we were going to tell it and we thought, what does this mean with this particular group of people? sally: and it wasn't always easy. it was hard to understand how wasperform what his concept in a lot of ways. i think i was probably the one that went, what? [laughter] sally: i don't understand. but that was good because sam had to think of how to explain that to me. in my training, the kind of after i am, coming from the actors studio, i would go, how do i play that? i am not sure what that means. i do know that having done this now, 51 performances, that you can feel the audience when we come in, they don't know what to make of it.
it is so unorthodox. , ando feel the audience go they sit forward. be thisw it is going to and that, we are just going to be delighted by it, and all of a and you can fill the room shift. at first, they are kind of annoyed. wait a minute. [laughter] sally: there is nothing to look at, it is not pretty. there is nothing pretty about it. are inhts are on, we costume and we are saying things that don't really apply to what is happening. we made sudden, because them or sam made them sit up and it or be annoyed or something they were not expecting, we slowly weave around into the
play without them even knowing we are quite in it, without us even knowing we are quite in it, then slowly the lights are lowering and we are in different in.umes and then it is we don't have an intermission or scene breaks, all the scenes are interwoven like a memory. charlie: what we know from what tennessee wanted this play to be? was there any indication of how he perceived it? were working from the published version, it would -- joe: we were working from the published version, it would almost be quaint.
something, in 1945, for all the characters to come out and say this is me, i am the narrator, you will see my sister and mother. i think it must of been startling in some way. that is what we were trying to capture, that feeling of what it must have unlike to see this extraordinary voice burst onto the scene as a young man. i think the greatest compliment that has been paid to the production is when people come back and say i heard things in the play i have never heard before. we have not changed a word. isn't that the fine of an extraordinary, a masterpiece? it's like a standard. ella fitzgerald can do it in you hear this, frank sinatra can do it in you hear this. they are sturdy and they take interpretation. sally: they invited.
joe: they invite interpretation. charlie: the gentleman caller, what did you look to? finn: there is a great book called "how to win friends and afluence people," i read little bit of it every night before i go on. very great, it is written much like how jim speaks. charlie: that kind of optimism. finn: optimism and american vitality. that book is all about listening to people and engaging them and making what you want from them sound like the thing they want to make it all about how to make someone else want the thing. sally: that is political. [laughter] charlie: carnegie you quite a bit about that.
quite a bit about that. finn: in a seemingly genuine way. he says hold your own on any social level. extrovert is a big contrast, especially in this house, although he and amanda are on a similar wavelength. i also read there was a certain man tennessee had in mind in his youth. that he had a crush on. joe: the character is named after one of his fraternity brothers. charlie: who was in fact the one that -- joe: i think he is just named after this young man. finn: it may have been more than a friendship. this was just a outgoing, gentle guy who did not judge and like other people did.
but he was also full of self-delusion and self hypnosis. charlie: finding a play like this with all of the success it has had, as a make you want to spend a lot of time in theater? madison: oh yeah. me? totally. happy that i would be happy doing this play in my basement. and this crew direction, i would be happy to do it anywhere. charlie: you said it will be on for a long time? sally: yeah. [laughter] sally: i said i am not glad. [laughter] sally: but it is a mountain every night. a mountain to climb, a real mountain. charlie: thank you. " at thess menagerie
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