tv Bloomberg Markets Americas Bloomberg July 7, 2017 10:00am-11:00am EDT
one of the most highly anticipated meetings of two heads of state in recent memory. from new york, i am vonnie quinn. live from london, i am mark barton. the meeting occurring amid andout from the election policy in syria and ukraine. at the meeting, the president accompanied by rex tillerson, while president clinton is in ispanied -- put accompanied by sergey lavrov. matt miller is in hamburg. matt, if i can start with you, what is the most that trump can expect to get out of the meeting, given both his domestic audience and international audience? uh, i think the most you can expect to get out of this is a positive meeting, given the international audience.
he is unlikely to confront president putin with allegations of hacking, most recently into the power stations in the u.s., but of course in the 2016 elections. the two of them will probably focus on a push to fight terrorism together, although they have recently clashed in areas like syria. donald trump has to show he can be hard on upholding the minsk agreement and confront president putin certainly on the actions we have seen in crimea. vonnie: i want to bring in henry meyer in moscow, how much will putin be able to get out of donald trump when it comes to a strategy in syria or the potential for sanctions to be diminished? henry: i think that russians have been encouraged by the comments made by rex tillerson on his way to germany in which he said the u.s. was looking to work with russia in syria, in terms of the no-fly zones and
patrol of the cease-fire. on the other hand, they are realistic in moscow and they understand how much pressure donald trump is under, so their expectations are modest i would say. warsaw,ven yesterday in henry, trump criticized russia's destabilizing behavior in the called to an end to the support of hostile regimes in syria and iran. how did that go down in moscow? henry: i think the russians understand the reason why donald trump says those things, at least that is their understanding, that he is trying to defend against the mystic critics. i do not think they would be too upset by his comments. benie: how will the leaders looking at this meeting, thinking of angela merkel in this example and obviously the president of china? matt: on the one hand, other
leaders also participate in the sections against russia and it is interesting from the russian perspective, they feel like the sanctions are part of a protectionist regime against them, so on the one hand donald trump is aligned with other leaders when it comes to sanctions. on the other hand vladimir peyton is allied with others when it comes to the free trade he wants to push for. the question will be whether the two of them are at odds after they come out of the meeting, or whether they strike an alliance. the latter could concern angela merkel and the europeans here. they certainly do not to see that kind of alliance strengthened. vonnie: what is the thinking over there? it is only a 30 minute meeting, not everything will be solved, but will most of the work be done by the two leaders or will the two secretary of state do more of the work with the
leaders putting on a show? ist: i feel like the latter probably the case. in some regards, all of this is just a show. nobody expects immediate or near-term activity action to come out of the meeting. there are much more important things for the global thing right now -- scene right now at the g-20, considering the fact that the turkish president said the germans are committing suicide by not letting him speak at his own rallies here. and considering the fact donald trump met with other asian leaders that want to put pressure on china because they do not think china is doing enough to calm down north korean aggressions. i think these other issues are more important geopolitically. this meeting is probably more important, especially stateside, as kind of a show and a little bit of drama. mark: henry, given that president putin has done many of these types of one on ones and
attended these summits before, some might suggest he has an upper hand over donald trump. donald trump could be vulnerable to flattery and deception. what do you think? henry: he has been to these things. there was a famous episode when he brought his dog to a meeting with angela merkel, who has been known to be afraid of dogs. so yes, i think vladimir putin will try to extract as much as it can from the meeting. he is an experienced operator. aboutmatt, i want to talk xi jinping, because he has already taken a swipe at the u.s. for retreating from globalization. it sets up another interesting one-on-one tomorrow when but the u.s. president and the chinese president meet. yeah, and i think that that really is the most interesting kind of broad stroke take on this summit over all.
leavingisolationism is a leadership vacuum and a china wants to move into that role. that is what i hear from a lot of national players here. the lack of u.s. engagement has really left a vacuum that leaves others, most obviously angela merkel, to take on this leadership role for the developed world. vonnie: henry, back to you in moscow for a moment. does donald trump bring up the perhaps russia hacked into nuclear companies in the u.s., or does he leave it alone? henry: i would be very surprised if that happened. from both sides donald trump and vladimir putin, their main objective is to make the meeting a success. and of course there are going to be difficult moments in the meeting, but ultimately they
want it to be a positive outcome. so i do not think that will happen. vonnie: henry, thank you. we will be back with you shortly. henry meyer reporting from moscow. matt miller in hamburg. and in related news, russia is said to be chief suspect in the hot gains of at least a dozen u.s. power plants. joining us on that from idc bureau is is cybersecurity reporter for bloomberg news. give us the lowdown, michael. is it for certain that russia is behind hackings? nothing is for certain, but russia is the chief suspect and we have heard from sources that it is narrowed down to russia as opposed to so many other possible suspects. like north korea or china this is a major hack and the russian connection is worrying. this is hacking at the u.s. power plants and in one case a nuclear power plant, it is a big
deal. even if they are starting in the enterprise network, it looks like these hackers are able to find ways into control systems. the backdrop for this is ukraine, where russian hackers have taken down the grid twice in the last 1.5 years and that is why the us government is concerned. mark: is there a threat to public security? what is the impact, short-term and long-term damage of this hacking? michael: short-term come i do not think it is a threat to public safety. i do not think there is an indication that the hackers are trying to move now. this is a long game. the u.s. is known to have these sources -- resources as well. things they use in rival countries. i think the idea here is that these hackers are trying to gain persistence, which they can sit on the networks and then at a moment of their choosing they can try to disrupt the u.s. power supply. but even the first step, sort of
known as preparation for the battlefield, because these are nuclear plants and a power plants that affect electricity for millions of people, it is a huge concern but more of a long-term concern. vonnie: what are the private security experts saying, is it just mischiefmaking or is there potential for the fairy is ness?d? -- four nefarious it could be a little sword rattling, those tools they used were not specifically sophisticated, so it was not like they were hiding what they were doing. it could be one of those things where they are pushing back and saying, we are looking at your power plants and your grid. it could be a game of signaling. because the u.s. government and utilities themselves do not know what the motive is, they need to treat it with seriousness. vonnie: michael reilly, thank you. our cybersecurity reported in washington dc.
we want to get a check of the markets. shale pick it up in june. weight gains disappointed again. it is a puzzle for the economy and for policymakers. there is abigail doolittle. abigail: thank you. looking at a rally at this time. take a look at the two-year yields. this is all over the map. bonds trading higher and had been lower and then right around the time of the report they rallied for the short end of the curve as investigators -- investors thought about wage growth being disappointing, wayne on the two-year yield and the rally that we see and stocks to some degree. it will be interesting to see how it plays out. here is a look at the majors. we have a lot of green, a nice rally after yesterday's pullback. bullish assessment on the side of investors. and go into the bloomberg and we have the intraday chart of the s&p 500.
basically flat into the report. a big spike, a little bit of a dip. vonnie: we want to go to the meeting so i will break in. the meeting between donald trump and vladimir putin. [indiscernible] [cameras clicking] president trump: think of a much. we appreciate it. we have been discussing various things and i think it is going very well. we have had some very good talks. we will have a talk now and obviously that will continue. but we look forward to a lot of very positive things happening. with russia and the united states and for everybody concerned. it is an honor to be with you. thank you.
[indiscernible] >> and i am delighted at meeting you and i hope that the meeting yields the results -- pres. putin: thank you. president trump: thank you very much. [chatter] president trump: thank you very much. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. vonnie: as you saw, vladimir prison leaning in -- putin leaning in to have a public -- rpprivate discussion. the two leaders and translators.
president trump saying he is looking for the positive things happening between the united states and russia. and a good handshake there toward the end of the photo opportunity as well. mark: they are getting a measure of each other, which is what we have been saying for the last couple days. they have never met personally before and putin referred to that. they have had a number of telephone conversations, but he said personal meanings are necessary. president trump saying positive things are coming out of the talks. the talks will continue. he said it is an honor to be with the russian president and putin said to have spoken on the phone, but as i said, the one-on-one meetings are necessary and he is delighted to meet the president and he says he is hopeful the meeting will yield positive results. that is the key. what solid things are going to come out of this meeting, except for pleasantries and getting a measure of each other. vonnie: no public agenda for the meeting.
so it is hard to know how much preparation went on behind the scenes between the russian side and the u.s. side, but we know the secretaries of state from both countries are also meeting and i have met before. they have done a lot of work before, so it is quite possible the secretary of state will talk about pensions, peace process -- sanctions, peace process, even the strategy in syria potentially while donald trump and putin keep things a little more simple. we will see how the meeting in 30 minutes went. mark: you wonder if donald trump will address the cyberattacks. we just spoke with our bloomberg reporter on that, the suppose it attacks on the u.s. utility system. his domestic audience, especially congress, will want him to do so. and it is questionable whether he actually will. so many unanswered questions,
week. are you happy that volatility is have returned? >> i think many traders are happy about the returns. crude is under pressure again today. technically it still looks like it is in a downward trend. i expect many will be short as we challenge $42 in the next week or so. futures the gold front, have been down for five weeks, the worst since december. which could be perceived as odd given that the flashpoint with regard to north korea earlier this week. looking atrobably the jobs report and what the fed will do. what will stop the decline? >> it is hard to say. maybe too much sentiment in the gold area called -- gold area over all, but we have interest rates shifting and it will continue to be a headwind for gold moving forward. it is breaking below the may
lows. it could go into 200 for the next couple weeks. mark: have a good weekend. the features and focus. vonnie: we will be following the meeting between president donald trump and russia's president. this was a few moments ago, they had a couple moments with the press and photographers. donald trump saying they had discussions going very well and that the personal meetings are quite important, from vladimir putin. they will continue to meet for the next 30 minutes. they did not answer any questions from the press this time, but they did shake hands and appear friendly. this is bloomberg. ♪
vonnie: from new york, i am vonnie quinn. despite a trillion dollars coming into etf's over the past three years, some have seen things evaporate. we have a senior analyst here at bloomberg. eric, fascinating topic. the first group we are talking about live or die by the sword. which etf's are these? >> when you look how they reach the big time and then go to the poor house, not many do, but the good grouping you could classify as living by the performance and a dying by it because a lot of them are just used in the form of -- some examples as you can see, this is one of the best for the agri business. it has less than a billion dollars now. it really died with green performance. 18% in the past year, but investors are not coming back. moo lost those investors who
cannot stomach the year after year downturn. fxy, people forget that the yen was a hot plate before abe was elected. but had a billion dollars, not it is down to one million. that one lost money. whendx, the indonesian -- the bubble is kicked to a country the assets come back. was hot for some time. abigail: the next group? eric: this group is competitive. you have imp, this is the india etn. it was the first india product. india you do have their market open to foreign investors, so everybody came into this because you do not actually have to hold the stocks. since then, they have gone back. assets.res to those
then you have brick, which has faith that of our vernacular. the thing with these, they charge a fortune, like 70 basis points. now you can get into emerging markets that are more diverse for a quarter of the price. not shocking to see them go out. pwc was smart, but it got overrun by cheaper products. one, one we last are all familiar with. eric: people say, i have tried this and never will again. take a look at the natural gas etf. talk to anybody, they are not going in. it has burned through about $5 billion. coal has had too much of a performance, even in the rally next year nobody came back. abigail: thank you. we love these fallen star etf's. vonnie: thank you.
still ahead, president trump and president putin meeting and their first formal bilateral meeting. the former u.s. ambassador to russia discusses things with us next. and just a recap of what happened during the photo opportunity and press call for the two leaders. president donald trump saying he was looking for the positive things happening for russia and the u.s. in the meeting with russia's president. putin saying he was delighted to meet donald trump in person and that personal meetings were quite important. we will continue to follow this. this is bloomberg. ♪ these days families want to be connected 24/7.
we will check in on first word news. emma has more from new york. emma: employees in the u.s. at a more jobs than expected in the last month and payrolls rose. unemployment rate grew a 10th of a percent, 4.4%. wages below the forecast, even with the jobless rate near a 16 year low. prime minister theresa may rejected -- from her brexit minister to make a promise to guarantee the rights of u.s. citizens living in britain. warned herminister about her hard-line approach to the split and says the uncertainties facing nationals in the u.k. is making this harder. and breaking into computer systems in a dozen were u.s. power plants and according to people familiar with the investigation, the chief suspect is russia. officials say one of the plants
targeted was a nuclear facility. they warn hackers could be positioning themselves to eventually disrupt the power supply in the u.s. and not worried about the cap administration undermining the officials trying to make more special ways. stevencker rule -- step mnuchin has proposed to be simple five. global news, 24 hours a day powered by more than 2600 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. . am emma chandra vonnie: thank you. back to our breaking news, president trump's highly anticipated meeting with vladimir putin is now underway in hamburg. ahead of that, president trump he looks forward -- says he looks for the positive things happening with both countries and president putin saying he hopes the meeting succeeds.
we will meet with alexander vershbow now. ambassador, how much sincerity do you expect from the two leaders behind closed doors? >> i hope that they will be frank with one another, but especially i hope that president trump is clear that most of the responsibility for the breakdown in relations lies with russian misbehavior, especially aggression against ukraine, the annexation of crimea, their reckless approach to their intervention in syria. so there is a lot to talk about, but first we have to see if donald trump states those issues upfront. vonnie: and we cannot forget that the secretaries of state our meeting as well. how much will the meeting be about repairing relations and moving forward? and how much will it be about
specifics on syria and on sanctions? alexander: there is some urgent, immediate business for them to talk about, including north korea's continued provocations with their nuclear and missile tests. russia and the u.s. could do better in cooperating to address that problem. same on syria where they continued violence continues into there could be a turning point with the fall of raqqa and break up the center of isis in the so-called caliphate. a better alignment of russian and american strategies could help protect civilians from further destruction and promote a political solution. ukraine must be part of the discussion, even if putin would rather not discuss it, because that is where the national order broke down. syria, isssador, is it the only issue where both putin and trump might find
common ground? what other issues might we find both leaders in a meeting in the middle, finding a compromise? there has been signals of progress on syria in terms of setting up safe stones and improving humanitarian deliveries so the population can begin the long process of resuming normal lives. but it is still not clear that we can fully align positions with russia because of their alignment with iran, determined to take control of the areas liberated from isis in eastern syria and set up things into damascus and iraq. they need to talk about iraq and north korea. the whole international community must come down with greater pressure on pyongyang if they will ever be convinced to freeze and eventually abandon their missile and nuclear programs. mark: about -- alexander: it could be an area
of progress. mark: please carry on. ukraine could be an area of progress, yes? alexander: it could be because the russians signed an agreement in minsk three years ago in which they pledged to restore ukrainian sovereignty over eastern ukraine, but they have not done anything since that time to implement it. president trump and secretary tillerson just appointed an envoy to increase u.s. engagement on ukraine and i think it is a good step. if the russians are prepared to talk directly with the u.s., they could perhaps help the ukrainians and germans and french who have been in charge of this, to actually solve one of the irritants in the east and west relations. i hope the issue is not bypassed because of immediate issues like syria. mark: what has intrigued me, and what has intrigued most viewers around the world, the sort of dynamic of the meetings.
you are an insider and you have experienced these meetings, so what actually goes on behind closed doors? we know that there are the two presidents, the secretaries of state, the translators, maybe six people in a room. what actually behind -- happens behind closed doors? alexander: it is a real conversation generally. it takes a little time because each leader must have his words interpreted before the other can respond, so it does have an on pontaneouss -- uns feeling to it, but i think that putin will lay out his own version of history. and president trump needs to push back. he wants to have a better relationship with putin, which is fine, but he must directly address the very contentious issues that have brought the relationship to difficulty.
vonnie: a couple days ago in poland donald trump urged russia to stop destabilizing activities. he also did not reaffirm the u.s. backing of article5. now i am not sure what you make an area but is it where they could find common ground? alexander: i think he was pretty good on article 5 and his commitment to the nato alliance. i think most interventions are that it was -- interpretations are that it was a correction on a mistake he made in brussels last month and not so much recommitting to article 5. on ukraine, i think people in are pleased to finally spoke of publicly against that. i think it reflects progress in
the meeting that he had with the ukrainian president a couple weeks ago. it was a good start and hopefully the private meeting will reinforce the message that russia must change some of their behavior if we are ever going to get out of the deep hole we are in in terms of east-west relations. vonnie: the chinese president has been trying to step into the hole, if you like, of free trade and anti-protectionism. he will be looking. at the meeting closely. whom does he align with more closely after the meeting, president putin or donald trump? jinping?: you mean xi vonnie: yes. alexander: i think i see china and russia's positions unfortunately closer together on the international issues, particularly north korea where it was regrettable that they tried to blame the u.s. for north korea's missile tests,
which does not help us get to a solution. on trade, perhaps xi jinping is closer to the europeans. putin or donald trump. it is a complex tribal and i think that china has not been able to put enough pressure on north korea since the meeting the two leaders had in florida. i think china needs to reckon with the possibility that the u.s. will impose sanctions on chinese companies and banks still trading with north korea if they do not take more direct steps to rein in pyongyang. ,onnie: alexander vershbow former u.s. ambassador to russia. mark: coming up on bloomberg markets, see how the jobs report is revealing mixed signals. bill gross gives us his take on the june data and what it means.
♪ live from new york i'm vonnie quinn. mark: live from london, i am mark barton. time for the business flash, looking at some of the biggest business stories in the news are now. prosecutors have arrested a former manager in connection with an emissions scandal. according to people familiar with the matter, the arrest came a few days before he was charged by the justice department this week. posting -- giving credit to
semi conductors and the popularity of the new galaxy smartphone, samsung's income and revenue beat estimates. and coming to the rescue, sony pictures and predictions that spider-man homecoming will taken $100 million this weekend in the u.s. they need the help, the studio in seventh place this year. it has not done that poorly since 2000. ♪ mark: that is the latest bloomberg business flash. vonnie: time for our bloomberg quick take with the background on issues of interest. today we are looking at angela merkel as she hosts the g-20 summit in hamburg. 62-year-old angela merkel is not flashy and it does not use twitter, but since she became chancellor in 2005, every event that has shaken europe has made her it's de facto leader ever
more. step-by-step solving problems, whether it is sanctions following the invasion of crimea on russia, to economics, but now facing challenges like brexit and the rise of populist parties. then there is donald trump. on hiseeting with him first trip to the continent, the nation turning to isolationism and protectionism, she says it is a serious mistake. after the election of the new french president, merkel turk quickly turn to him to work on the european union. seeking a fourth term, angela merkel interparty have bounced back and polls despite some hits last year over the influx of asylum-seekers to germany among other things. in her favorite are the strong
economy and a budget surplus. there is background. in 1999, she was elected chairwoman of her party and her chance came in 2005 when the chancellor called early elections. she squeaked through to become the leader and she has been reelected twice since then. viewss the argument, she germany as a beacon of europe, holding germany to high standards, whether it be about breeding greece -- robin increase into tough conditions her actionscs say on the economy and immigration has feel the rise of those that want to pull back from integration by prolonging and workingnomic -- on terrorism. you can learn more about angela merkel on the bloomberg. mark: the u.s. labor market giving investors mixed signals, the economy added 222,000 jobs
in june, but this overshadowed by weaker than expected wage growth. bill gross spoke earlier on bloomberg about with the latest report means for the federal reserve. bill: may have been raising interest rates and the effects depends on how much they raise and when they will raise. i think despite the rather strong jobs report from the standpoint of jobs gained, not necessarily from wages, is what janet yellen is looking at seriously. hike lefts maybe one in the year, probably december. i think it depends as i mentioned in prior discussions with you, it depends significantly on what other central banks do, the ecb and others, they tend to change policies. really respond, but as a leader of global
banking, they need to know what it could do to currency levels. so they are all in the pot at the same time and i think your question about the fed is important, but is also important about other central banks. >> what we have observed in the last number of weeks with rising rates, we will get to bond and investment in a moment, is the idea of a fed that is coordinated, yet at the same time constrained. how coordinated by the central banks and how constrained is yellen because she is limited by other global activities? bill: i do not think they are court needed. -- coordinated. in the last few weeks there have been hints from the bank of england that they are on the move, potentially on the move at some point, maybe 16 months down the road. but they are a long way back from when we started to raise our short-term interest rates.
so they are beginning to be coordinated from the standpoint of philosophy perhaps and the direction, but not in terms of timing and magnitude. i think ultimately that has a significant impact or will on currency levels and central banks want to keep those relatively static. each wants to lower their currency a little bit so that they get to push to the real economy. they have to keep things steady and it so the future coordination i think is important. it has not been coordinated to this point. >> we have seen a race to the top of the hill in bonds. top,d to put a flag at the wanted to say we are entering a bear market. what say you? bill: my bear market is not really applicable anymore. i looked at the long-term trends since the early 1980's and interest rates on the 10 year
moving by 25 basis points a year since then. is it a technical mumbo-jumbo, really not, because it is an indication of what an economy needs in terms of lower interest rates in order to keep going. i think ultimately come all that are probably at 235 at the moment, to 65 level is a critical level for -- 255 is a critical level further than just rates. to get there in the next couple weeks, probably not. we have had a 30 basis points, or a 20 basis points increase for the last couple weeks. so i think we're moving higher. >> i will show you this chart. we will show it on the radio, go to twitter with that as well. for the first time in ages i am showing bond price. germany 10 year. down we go. taking a look, down about 3% on full faith and credit, and higher yields. did you notice?
lower bottom prices. when does it begin to hurt? bill: that is the teeter totter, the interest rates up and prices down. up by 30 basis points. it is about three points. when does it begin to hurt? i think it begins to hurt at the margin here in the u.s. on mortgages. ultimately it will begin to hurt in the and observe -- and it is an unobserved fact, that interest payments and corporate expenses are significant, perhaps 30%-40% so it will begin to hurt lower yielding corporations, bond corporations when they try to rollover debt in 2017 and early 2018. so as interest rates rise generally and spreads widen, the hurt will affect the lower quality corporations as well as
♪ from new york, i am vonnie quinn. mark: live from london, i am mark barton. this is "bloomberg markets." the war at words between apple and imagination heating up. the shares of imagination plunging today and apple hiring back. -- firing back. samsung hoping to use their record quarterly earnings to take on apple's debut. adam has the details. good to see you. in person in london. the timeline of events, apple
and imagination, talk us through them both. >> imagination provides the graphic chips that go into the phones, if you are playing games and other applications. earlier they announced that --le would be drying them as dropping them as a supplier it caused a big drop in their share price and it caused a dispute. apple has now come back to say that they actually told imagination much earlier and that now perhaps may be the market should have been told earlier as well. it is a a lot of back and forth and imagination stocks took a hit. vonnie: imagination complaining that apple is saying they had a lot of warning, said his job is it to one investors -- whose job is it to warn investors? adam: i spoke with an attorney and the obligation is typically with a company to disclose this type of information. there are nuances in which they
might be able to not have to share the information, but this is something we should expect u.k. regulators to look into. mark: as if imagination and apple was not enough, we also have a fight between qualcomm and apple. suing apple for patent infringement. adam: apple and imagination with a patent dispute, sort of like a minor league baseball game compared to this. this is a gigantic dispute between two very big companies. apple has filed an antitrust lawsuit against qualcomm, saying they are trying to monopolize the chip market and qualcomm is countersuing, now try to get apple phones blocked from being imported into the u.s. to use a line from the godfather to the to -- going mattresses."
mark: what about the long-awaited apple iphone anniversary? adam: samsung business can be impressive. they make the chips, this grains, the phones -- screens, the phones, all working together using a quarter like this which was massive. mark: adam thank you. coming up on the european close, only in four minutes time. check it out. check out how the stocks are faring. i will leave you with the currency boards as we approach the european close. this is bloomberg. ♪
their meeting. i'm vonnie quinn. mark: i'm mark barton. any secondhe details now from michael mckee at the fed. there, letore we go me remind everyone, this is unusual, a friday. this will give congressmen and women in a couple of extra days to parse. the report is the look at the financial and economic conditions over the past half year, normally released when the humphrey hawkins testimony is put out, largely ignored by the market, media, and members of congress. they decided to put it out early so that more people could read it. gradual growth, gradually tightening labor markets. until recently, gradually increasing inflation. the fed says that will resume. they find equities a bit