tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg October 9, 2017 11:00pm-12:00am EDT
>> you are watching "bloomberg technology. let's have a check of your first word news. the white house is finalizing an executive order that would expand health plans offered by associations to allow individuals to pull together and buy insurance outside their state. president trump could sign the order this week. epa administrator scott pruitt says the trump administration will abandon the obama-era clean power plan aimed at reducing global warming. pruitt says he will sign a proposal to mount to withdraw the plan that is aimed at restricting greenhouse gas emissions from coal-fired power plants. officials say at least one person is dead and two others
are seriously injured in more than a dozen fast spreading wildfires in a north california wine country. a fire official says at least 1500 structures are destroyed. and turkey's president says the washingtonspute that is having is very saddening. the dispute started after turkey arrested a national that worked in a u.s. consulate. and senator feinstein is throwing her hat into the ring toin, the democrat taking social media to say she is running for a fifth term. global news 24 hours a day, powered by 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries around the world. this is bloomberg. ♪
cory: i'm cory johnson, in for emily chang. this is "bloomberg technology." coming up, russia's google connection and google's russia connection. the big tech company saying they took money from the kremlin's sponsored hackers during last year's presidential election. we'll discuss google's role in fake news. plus, tech and taxes. apple ceo tim cook meets with macron in. emmanuel paris as they waive sweeping overhauls of digital platforms across europe. and a wide ranging interview with the former microsoft ceo and clippers owner steve ballmer. his thoughts on twitter, trump, immigration and his enduring legacy. but first, to our lead. russia linked accounts used google to influence the 2016 u.s. presidential election. google investigators found that nearly $5,000 from the kremlin. they're also investigating another $53,000 in ads spending coming from russia at large. first reported in "the washington post" and "the new york times." the admission is new. google previously said it
couldn't find any evidence of russian interference. but data from twitter proved the earlier contention was wrong. mark bergen, who covers google for lumber, joins us. -- shoe covewho covers google fr bloomberg, joins us. what are they telling us that's you? mark: they're not telling us anything which is frustrating. they're still beginning their probe. but we know that they've used google properties. it sounds like they found, as you said, on there $5,000 worth of ads. we're not sure if they ran on youtube, gmail search. google -- right now the problem is focused on facebook but google has a much bigger sprawling network of advertising. there's a bunch of different channels that russian actors could use. cory: we talked about this on bloomberg radio a little while ago. people who wanted a preview of this conversation could have been listening to bloomberg radio in the last hour. but one of the interesting things is they have all kind of systems supposedly involved to make sure that their customers paid them. or to understand that the content gets there on time or
gets delivered in a proper way. it looks like they didn't have any system either to vet the stuff before it went out, or even afterwards. we've been talking about russian interference in this election for more than a year now. google just coming with this information. mark: i think part of the issue is drawing the line. this morning, they were saying bucket, $50 uckepoll $53,000 worth of ads. these are either trolls or spreading misinformation or lies . this is just russian accounts that we're spending on. cory: the notion otherwise is that some of it could be legitimate ads. not fake news. mark: yeah, i think so. i think that's where -- there's probably behind the scenes, both in the board room and negotiating with congress, where the line is drawn here. cory: it might be drawn at disclosure, right? advertising everywhere, whether airways, oron the
cable, all have to say where the money comes from for a political ad. mark: right. and that seems to be the direction we're moving. congress is putting more pressure. facebook and google have been resisting this for a long time. political spending is pretty big on the platforms and it's growing. this election was a really good case point for that. cory: we talked to a congressman last week who has seen what the facebook ads were. facebook won't share that with us. they've seen at that time least. check this out. >> when you talked generally about the issues of race, the divisive points in our country, the issue of immigration and migration and how the american public was reacting to that. just remind yourself how candidate trump used those issues to heat up the american public and clearly the russians exploded that at the same time. mark, the idea that this is the stuff that was about -- it was the racist ads, at
least on facebook, racist ads, perhaps anti-semitic ads. certainly anti-immigrant things. the very things that were stirring up voters in some places to vote for president trump. mark: right. i think with google, it's interesting, a lot of these websites that had a big presence on facebook, one of the ways they are making money is with google display ads. a lot of the fake news sites probably had banner ads that were run by google. but both google and facebook were in the weird position, where they would tell each other, we have amazing tools for reaching consumers. and now they are -- facebook and particular, and i imagine we will see the same from google -- where they will say, these were not as effective and certainly not the deciding factor in the election. cory: it was interesting. the bad actors in russia were so on top of the latest trends in advertising. i can look at the role that google and facebook have in a global advertising market. what you see is number one, that the number is growing. you can see these pies are
getting bigger. bars actually. the columns are getting bigger which is to suggest more money. but also in terms of percentage of revenue. this is a percentage of revenue for google in the advertising market, much bigger than facebook. also, a growing percentage of revenue in the global advertising market, which shows the russian hackers were on top of the most effective ways to reach people in the modern society. russia got it, even if u.s. regulators did not. and i think daily beat had a fascinating story, they claimed their video bloggers on youtube, that russian networks had paid. that's where these are, as youtube is all user-generated content, they might not be even running ads. certainly isn't something that google made them be aware of. that would be an instance of organic reach. this is not necessarily paid ads but these are using youtube. the world's biggest video platform to spread lies and propaganda. cory: that is the u.s. who knows what's going on in
other elections all around the world. in europe, in asia, in africa. emily chang sat down with steve ballmer, the los angeles clippers owner, of course, for a wide ranging interview in seattle. ballmer's home. ballmer confirmed he still has a big chunk of twitter but he thinks the company could be doing more. steve: they are driving forward, like anything that i have been involved with, more, better, faster is always good. we would love to see more, better, faster. emily: more better what? steve: more better products, more better revenue, more better earnings, cost structure, you name it. that's not a specific criticism. that is just a general view that things need to move even faster. cory: full disclosure, bloomberg l.p. in partnership with twitter to produce a global breaking news video network. we're putting that together right now. later in the show, a lot more of the interview.
plus, steve ballmer's thoughts on president trump, immigration and his legacy at microsoft. coming up, more of bloomberg technology's d coverage in seattle this week. talking to politicians, business leaders, all about the tech industry. transforming the emerald city. next. this is bloomberg. ♪ cory: all this week "bloomberg
technology" broadcasting from seattle. amazon, microsoft and v.m.ware, it's a hub for technology and innovation. it has been for quite some time, but outside of those tech giants, also a home to a growing number of startups that could lead the way with a.i. and cloud computing. always a pleasure to see you. look at you with the bloomberg monitors behind you. we've been talking about this for a long time. you and i have been talking about this for a long time, what makes seattle such a tech hub. we mentioned those great big companies. certainly microsoft and the history of microsoft in that city, you have to start there. >> you have to start with microsoft, they have been a huge driver of the ecosystem and now the cloud ecosystem. but as you said, two of the top
five market cap companies in the world are the tech companies in amazon and microsoft. just a plethora of startups and there's thousands and thousands of folks working to get companies like google and facebook up here. so we really have it covered in terms of diversity of perspectives in the tech industry. cory: i guess we leave out companies like facebook and other companies that have a very large presence up there. google included that have hired so many people and have such big operations there. tell me, is it trying to chase after all those great engineers who might be falling off of all those other places or have gone to seattle for opportunities at amazon and microsoft, but find themselves, oh, wow, facebook's here, google's here, there's challenges to the opportunity? matt: let me give you an example. there's a great team that was up here for google that invented this great technology which manages containers. that team is up here from google. they decided to leave and build a business around that and we funded it, along with our friends. these are the kind of things that happen. for a company like a smart
ecosystem,h has an relying on the cloud partners both that microsoft and amazon, building a business now that is well over $100,000 now and rapidly growing. that is what we like to see, talent coming from these different companies and often times, they get inspired to build something from scratch and inspire something new. cory: is there any kind of industry area we might want to say that seattle is going to be known for? i would venture cloud is a certain thing up there, with amazon web services and vmware. matt: i think hands down, we are the cloud capital of the world. i was visiting with a group of executives from a company today and we have alibaba offices and other companies trying to understand what's next cloud. we believe that's serverless technologies and microservices architectures. but i think what's overlooked sometimes is just how big areas like machine learning and artificial intelligence are up here. with paul allen's artificial intelligence institute,
the university of washington's school of artificial intelligence. they are just doing great things as well. and then finally, what about all the ways we interface with computing? think about alexa with voice or mixed reality in some of the areas that microsoft's involved with. so, we have really got the full stack here, some of the leading edge things that are going on in next generation computing. cory: i would be amiss if i didn't mention the role of udub which you just did. not just because they're 6-0 and number five in the country right now. but much to the pain of my heart. maybek nationally university of washington's role is overlooked in the role of driving -- what is the university of washington so good at when it comes to technology. matt: well, one area is this area of machine learning and
artificial intelligence. they recruited an incredible professor five years ago from carnegie melon and he became the amazon professor of machine learning. we promptly started a company with some of his team and built that company which was called dato into one of the leading players in machine learning as a service. that company was then bought by apple and apple's now building a bigger and bigger presence up here in seattle. so i think machine learning and a.i., professors like pedro domingo -- i could go on and on -- probably one of the most interesting examples now is a ampany called xnor that professor has founded. that's all about machine learning and artificial intelligence at the edge. so the edge computing side versus the cloud computing side. some of the things that are starting to happen at the internet of things kind of area related to deep learning. cory: all right, so, when we talk about all these places that want to start, what looks like silicon valley, whether it is new york or phoenix or austin or chicago or grand rapids, you name it, another thing seattle has got going for it -- you have
your strong university focus and technical skills. you have your established technology innovators that are throwing off people who have made a lot of money and want to try again. but you have a very active venture capital community. madron has been there since the start of it. you can pat yourself on shoulder right now but madrona has been there from the start. you were one of the early backers of amazon. what's the venture scene like in seattle and how is it different than silicon valley? matt: our focus goes all the way back to the first investors in amazon back in 1995, focus on day one opportunities and day one founders. get involved at a very early stage. i mentioned carlos and some other examples. one, but be at day there for the long-term and be there focused on the northwest. we think there are a bunch of great capital venture firms. we just happened to focus on early-stage companies in the northwest. we also really work well with those other firms. there's a growing interest. once again, there was a cycle in
the late 1990's and we are back here once again 20 years later with a very strong interest from silicon valley partners, working in conjunction with us and others. we have a vibrant angel community. not just superangel investors but large family offices. paul allen and others. or gates, cascade. the trilogy with john stanton from the wireless industry. so there's really a nice mix of folks in the kind of large family offices that we like to work with together as well. cory: you can't beat the state taxes. anini mean, if you are entrepreneur that thinks you are going to get rich -- i remember this guy, a woman i used to work with, her husband was about to come into a bunch of money from a wireless company her father was selling. they moved to washington to establish residence because there wasn't going to be any state sales taxes for them, but they wanted to stay involved in the technology community. it seems that's a big draw for the likes of bill gates, jeff bezos, and others.
matt: i think that some of those folks very intentionally either started their company or moved their company here to washington and seattle specifically for that reason. we don't have a state income tax. that's a massive competitive advantage over other states. and i think that's why you're seeing thousands and thousands of employees from companies like google and facebook that can choose to live up here to live up here. so that advantage is very important. but here's the punch line on that. our tax revenues are up from $28 billion to $38 billion, $10 billion in the last six years. that's because we have this pro-investment, pro-growth, pro-opportunity community up here in seattle. and the other punch line there is, we have the lowest unemployment rate in the history of the city of seattle and the state of washington. so i think we have a pretty good tax system. no tax system is perfect. but ours is growing and our economy's growing. i think that's going to really serve the entire community well for the long term. cory: couldn't agree more. i don't want to throw cold water and mention the weather in february because that's when the cold water gets thrown but i think it's worth it up in seattle. matt mcilwain, always a pleasure. he'll be joining us again later in the show.
so, stick around. elon musk's spacex launched its 14th rocket of the year. bringing the company close to its target of missions in 2017. the falcon 9 rocket carrying 10 satellites for communications. spacex is scheduled to launch another rocket from florida next next that rocket will wednesday. deliver a satellite. coming up, apple ceo tim cook in the city of light. how he plans to combat eu reform without first targeting big tech companies. this is bloomberg. ♪ cory: apple ceo tim cook met
with french president macron in paris monday. the meetup comes amid calls by european nation for an aggressive overhaul of how tech companies are paying tax across across the eu. joining us now, our bloomberg technology reporter who has agreed to talk in a funny accent for us today. thank you. [speaking foreign language] cory: that's good. i'm all for the french. this is an interesting drive right here. apple is center in this. particularly because of the deal they got in ireland. >> yes. apple very much says they didn't get a deal in ireland. annapolis facing increasing heat in ireland as well to pay this tax bill, which has not yet been delivered to ireland, it is in escrow somewhere. cory: is it or not? they got criticism following the demand from the eu to pay it, saying they hadn't put it aside.
>> yes. they put it aside in their account somewhere but ireland hasn't received it and they were talking about putting in escrow for itself while it appealed it. that hasn't happened. we knew that early last month, four european finance ministers, france, germany, italy and spain, they sent a letter to the european commission proposing a system whereby big tech companies are tax based on revenue and not by profit. i think the argument then being it is harder to push the profit into the low tax nation, perhaps like ireland, and therefore, they would not be allegedly evading taxes. cory: and it to that, is apple the canary in the coal mine here? are they the company that will ultimately make the deal that all the rest of the companies are going to have to follow? or is it going to be different treatments for these companies? alex: the companies are not going to make deals with nationstates, or indeed with the european regulatory authorities. what is going to happen is there will be a change in the law at
that level. we know the european parliament can be very slow moving when that stuff happens. the fact is, apple is not the only company doing this. there are of course, issues with amazon and others and companies outside tech. cory: and what is a fundamental issue -- how has apple been taxes andirt these follow the law as they see fit, but not pay the same amount of taxes as companies based on the continent? alex: apple, what's happened historically and the whole issue of contention, bone of contention last year, was that they were paying essentially a license fee for intellectual property which was held in different geographies and that was why they said, we're not actually generating any profit in this country. the profit is being generated by another unit elsewhere. that deal actually ended several years ago, so apple is now for this year and last year, for example, paying the higher tax rate. the issue then comes that the tax rate in places like ireland, just organically, is a lot lower than it is in the u.s.
so they pay 12.5% tax in ireland. the moment they bring back murn from ireland, for instance, they have to pay that difference with the u.s. i think it's 35% in the u.s. and that 22.5% goes into u.s. treasury coughers. which is why the deal in the white house right now is so significant. cory: and where the intellectual property resides and all that stuff gets very complicated. that's why we're glad to have you explain it to us. our own spy who came in from the coal. i did watch that. the richard burton version on that is weekend, on europe and asia. it was fantastic. thank you very much. coming up, steve ballmer speaks out. our interview with the former ceo of microsoft. his take on tax reform, immigration and the idea of fake news, next. and if you like bloomberg news, check us out on the radio. check me out on the radio. listen on bloomberg radio app, bloomberg.com and the u.s. and xm, station 119.
the u.k. has been what it must make the next move on brexit if it wants to talk trade. this after theresa may's comments in parliament that it was the eu's turned to an. they began the fifth round in brussels, but progress has been limited. disagreements are made about the size of the divorce bill, and the rights of eu citizens living in britain. google is said to have found almost $5,000 of ad spending from the russian government as it looks into possible interference into the u.s. presidential election.
a source says google is examining the sources of another $53,000 in russian spending. google initially said it found tacticsnce of targeted purchased on facebook. chicago university professor has won the nobel prize for human.cs for studying he showed how human weaknesses can ultimately affect markets. the academy of sciences said he will build a bridge between the economic and psychological system in individual system making. global news 24 hours a day, powered by 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries around the world. this is bloomberg. juliette: checking in on markets in asia midsession. we see south korea's kospi
trading for the first time in six sessions after that holiday break. samsung shares are driving that index higher. nikkei index coming back after the morning break and it is adding to those gains from the morning session, up by 0.4%. the yen little changed. singapore looking pretty good on the back of some solid trade data today. we see a switch out of singapore markets, and have a look at the csi 300, down by 0.6%. a short lived rebound of the china market, which came back online for the first time in weeks. i mentioned that big rally coming through from samsung, lifting the kospi and overall index. hsbc has cut some of the casinos after we saw disappointing golden week traffic in hong kong. and ihi, caught up in the steel
drama, looking into the ramifications of that on the business. it uses aluminum in airplane engine parts. toyota says there is great concern. ♪ this is "bloomberg technology." i'm cory johnson, in for emily chang. twitter shareholder microsoft ceo steve ballmer. he says companies cannot do more to police the spread of fake news. emily chang sat down with the l.a. clippers owner. steve: we launched our platform with data from the government about the government, no fake news. we launche dod on tax day. we keep adding more data and we keep the information current,
but the real thing we are doing in case ofax.org, but he wants to check, we are helping citizens run through topics of the day. we have a walk-through that will walk you through the president's budget through the context of what has happened historically. what does gdp look like? what does the deficit look like and how does all of that compare to the cbo? we make no productions. we make sure people can walk through and look at these proposals through the context of the past. then, be able to say, does this make sense to me or not? we have a little video that will explain to citizens, this is kind of the set of data, and the way to think about the budget proposal by the numbers. emily: i know you now know these facts almost better than anyone. do you have any advice for the lawmakers as they talk about tax proposals and health care? steve: i do.
we look at tax reform, the budget and health care. when you really look at the economics of these three things, they are just like this. what does it mean to have a budget without the tax report? it's our process. i am not condemning anybody, but it is kind of nutty. you have to have a tax plan to have a budget. it would be like a company expense plan without a revenue plan. it doesn't make sense. one of the biggest pieces of expenses, that's health care. you don't -- i mean, how do these things -- so really understanding how these things mesh together would be a key piece of advice i would certainly give decision makers, legislators and executive branch. emily: you mentioned this is an age of misinformation, of fake news. how big a problem is that? and what's the responsibility of these platforms, facebook, google, twitter? steve: i think this notion of people being able to sort of be fed whatever's going make them feel good, because that's what people are really doing. people want to feed whatever the
instincts are. i think the goal has to be to say, this is how it looks. you can see it any way you want to. but some place you have to come and be able to take a look at stuff objectively. i'm not sure you can say that's facebook's job. they're not in the news business. they pass along other people's news. same thing with google. here.s part of the issue things can look authentic. we did the u.s.a. facts poll. when surveyed people would say, i find my information most often on social media and i trust it the least. emily: so, do you think facebook and google and twitter should be policing this more or that's not their job? steve: they can't. it's not in the nature of what's going on. i think over time there needs to be something that's the equivalent of authenticated user on twitter where you get the little bullet that says you really are who you say you are. i think it would be nice to have authenticated sources so that people can say, i really want to see, not just what the crowd is saying, but i want to hear from
some authentic sources. emily: what if that information is not coming from the crowd? if it's coming from our own president? is it a problem if he's the one spreading misinformation? steve: well, we elected the president. our country as a whole. he is our, sort of president andc chief. peoplethere are who have problems with that and people who are supportive of that. but at least when the president speaks, he's speaking authentically for himself. and in a sense, that is a set of facts. when a major policy leader speaks, you can say, it is true, it is not. you might not like what he says, but that is what he is thinking. and every voter probably benefits by having the ability to hear directly from many people. i get a chance to speak directly on the internet. lebron james gets a chance to
speak directly on the internet. not everybody wants to hear what people say to one another. they don't always agree. certainly we've seen that with lebron and the president. he president is t taking it to another level, perhaps even inciting nuclear war on twitter. should he be kicked off of twitter? should he be allowed to make the statements on twitter? steve: everybody has the right to speak for themselves, and that includes the president of the united states. everybody has the right to speak for themselves. that's kind of in the fundamental nature of this country. and i think it's an important one. i think the citizens have an obligation to elect the people who they think will best represent their interests. and that gets a chance to get battle tested, every two years, every four years i love our system because people have to constantly prove themselves and if people are not doing things that are not valued, that will come across.
and if people are doing things that are valued. now, the way our system works, it doesn't take 100% to win. it takes logically 51%, of course with the electoral college that's not really what it is. but it takes logically 51% to win. and people have a right to hear directly in their -- as they go past their ballots. emily: you ran microsoft for many years. you've dealt with issues like immigration. do you have any concerns about the stance the president is taking on things like daca, for example? steve: i think immigration is a super important thing. my dad was an immigrant. my grandparents on the other side were immigrants. i value the fact that immigrants come in to this country. i think it is hugely, hugely important. it's not something that was just important 100 years ago. it remains important. it remains important in terms of high-tech workers coming into the country. it remains important in terms of people moving back and forth across our southern border. and there are complicated issues, there are issues of national security. but there are also issues of
economy and fundamental humanity. i do think it's important to look at all of those things, including humanity. as we kind of address the plight of the so-called daca. cory: great stuff. that was some of our conversation with former microsoft ceo steve balmer. almer. up, more b his thoughts on the knicks' legacy and the future of artificial intelligence. this is bloomberg. ♪ cory: back to the l.a. clippers
owner steve ballmer. emily chang sat down with ballmer, former microsoft ceo, of course. she asked what he thinks about the current ceo, what it's like to watch him take over. steve: i think his book was actually pretty good about that. he recognizes the good, he recognizes the things that needed to be changed. i think he's navigated that very, very well. from my perspective, you know, we knew we needed to get into the cloud. i got that started. he has really taken it to another level and i respect the fact he has had to do things differently. i knew things would have to be done differently in that area. that's the reason it was a good time for a change, if you will and the hardware's a whole different deal. he's pushed that along with xbox and surface and i kind of respect that needed things done differently.
and overtime, things need to be shaken up and freshened. and i had been at microsoft the whole time. it reflected my personality and bill's personality. but kind of like children, things need to keep growing, if you will. and we revel when our children are grown up and are sort of making their own way. and i revel that he's taking microsoft to its next level. sort of going forth in new and in different ways. emily: so, amazon web services still much bigger and growing faster. do you want more, better, faster from the cloud? steeve: sure, i do. [laughter] an investor on our quarterly call, i say, let's keep it moving. emily: are you listening into
all of the calls? no, like any large investor, i do a quarterly call with the cfo. and i think microsoft's done a pretty phenomenal job. particularly on the office side. but also on the azure side. but is there a lot of room for improvement? because the market leader on the azure side is pretty damn big? yeah, i do think there is. emily: what kind of improvement? steve: you need to have even better attachment and ability to sell to start ups and other development companies. developers, developers, developers. and with asurzure, you have to n the developers. i think microsoft's getting there, but still has a lot more to do. emily: you said you're done being an investor. is that still the case? steve: yeah, i'm not making, "new investments." emily: just mutual funds and microsoft and twitter?
steve: index funds. keep it simple. have everything pegged to the market. i have some bonds. i have microsoft. i have twitter. then i have a couple small private things that i don't do much of. but i have a basketball-based investment. i have one investment with a couple friends. that's it. emily: there's a big debate about the future of a.i. and whether it's dangerous or not. elon musk thinks robots could take over the world. they could supersede the human race. mark zuckerberg has said it's irresponsible to talk like that. what do you think? steve: oh, i think that's usual. what shall i say, the effervescence of the tech company. let's say something extreme, let's tune it down. when you get down to it, is a.i. important? yes. will it improve the way people live? yes. do we know all of what we will accomplish today? no. but getting computers to be smarter at helping people do what they want to do every day, that part can't get bad. i'm sure there's a place in time
where we can speculate about all of the tough societal issues, but we are years away from that. musk, of course what he says in the long run could be right, but the long run could be a long, long run. not going to happen the next 10 years or so. and of course zuckerberg's ready and prepared and, you know, sort of right to talk about that. but right now, put some of that clutter out of your mind. this artificial intelligence stuff will make a big difference. emily: you think it's possible that the human race could become extinct? steve: no, the human race is not going to become extinct. but how powerful will be computer's ability to reason and what will that fully mean, we odn'don't know. but we are not going to deal with that problem for 20 years. cory: that was bloomberg's emily chang with clippers owner and ex-ceo, steve
ballmer. now back with matt, managing director. talk to me about steve and his role there in seattle. obviously he has got an l.a. team as he lives up in seattle. matt: steve still has a significant presence up here. i think people overlook what a great job he did on growing the top line and the profitability of microsoft and making the early bet scenarios like cloud and hardware. sure, there were some areas and acquisitions that were tough. think?ou matt: oh, yeah. cory: nokia. can we remember nokia? can we talk about some of the things -- i mean, i think steve's great and he's a great owner of the clippers too, but there were some multibillion dollar things under his leadership that went way off board. not to mention all the problems with anti-trust around microsoft windows. matt: i think advertising and mobile were areas that were real struggles in that era. but if you look at things like where he laid the groundwork and sachi leading the cloud business
before he became ceo, they've headed in the right direction on the cloud side and they have got some massive advantages there. not only do they have really aps, but they have the on-premise presence that allows you to collect this increasingly hybrid world. so i think they have a really good strategic position. i think they doubled on the things that were working and leveraged some of their strengths. but steve did a good job setting the table in a bunch of different areas. cory: final question here. what is the lasting impact? i mentioned the anti-trust issues around explorer and microsoft windows. but i wonder in seattle what the lasting impact is, particularly around companies like microsoft and amazon when they start to think about those issues? matt: well, i think those are interesting topics around anti-trust. it's being raised in a bunch of different ways these days. i think that all of the big companies, whether it's the facebook and googles down your way, or the microsofts and
amazons here, need to be cognizant that as platform companies, they have to be good at creating a genuine platform that other people can succeed on. and also being successful for themselves. i think if you look at all of that group, i would highlight google. let's take a recent example of google cutting off amazon at geo shows from youtube. what's up with that? i can't get access over wi-fi to youtube because i don't like the device it's being accessed from? there's lots of questions you can ask on that area. i don't think the companies in seattle are in as difficult a position as some of the companies down in the valley. cory: maybe because they remember the days of yore. matt mcilwain, i know you remember a lot. we're grateful to have you all the time. thank you very much. matt: thank you cory: coming up, investors can't get enough of the apple iphone suppliers, giving rise to an interesting new e.t.f. we'll explain next. this is bloomberg. ♪
iphone 8 and iphone 10, suppliers are only growing. there's a new apple supplier e.t.f. bloomberg's north asia correspondent is in hong kong and is kind enough to join me. thank you very much. this is fascinating because this has been on the investment seen for a long time. what is going into the new device, and certainly, what is going into the next iphone? >> you see this all the time in taiwan with the lead-up of the apple product releases in the autumn. the gyrations, the ups and the downs and there's lots of rumors of course about what apple is going to release and whether
it's going to be popular and we've seen already a lot of these suppliers, a dip in september, some upwards of 25%, 30%, because early iphone the 8 orders were not as robust as expected, but now it is going back up on anticipation coming outr the 10, november 3. so there are lots of gyrations. if you look at this particular ishares, it really exemplifies the sweet spot that taiwan has in the supply chain for apple and all the suppliers. because 49% of the 91 companies in this e.t.f. are tied to apple. 41% of the companies say apple is their top customer. 18% of all the companies, the 91 companies, say apple is their top revenue source. so, you can see that sweet spot. but on the other hand, you can also see why the likes of the president are trying to diversify the taiwan economy. into biotech, into other areas.
because companies make up a quarter of the taiex. avoidant to diversify and those pitfalls. it seems like it allows investors to at least in theory lower transaction costs for acquiring that portfolio in terms of how many trades they have to put up. but secondly, figure out what the heck's in the iphone and know which companies to own. that's: yeah, right. one of the biggest hallmarks of becoming a supplier of apple is secrecy. you have to keep your secrets pretty closed and those doors closed at those suppliers. like pegatron, like largon. you go down the list. quantum computer. advanced semiconductor. pegatron. so many of these companies. again, citigroup is saying, because of those gyrations that we had in september, now coming back up, time to buy companies like largon, they make
everything from the screen, the opotoelectronic components to of course, becoming the assembler of the iphones. cory: and of course the challenge, you never know where the profits are. some of these companies can supply a lot of stuff with almost no profit. others might be taking away millions. stephen: yeah, absolutely. again, we have to kind of dig into each individual stock. catcher technology is one in particular that i've been looking at. they make the casings for the smartphones. it took a tumble like a lot of the other ones but a lot of these companies, at least the numbers, are looking pretty cheap in fact. estimated forward p.e. of 11 timesight now,, earnings right now. sales in september record high, 48% up. third quarter looking like a record as well. cory: that's your bet, not mine. let's not go there. stephen engle, thank you. that does it for this edition of
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