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tv   Charlie Rose  Bloomberg  October 25, 2017 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT

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♪ announcer: from our studios in new york, this is charlie rose parade charlie: several republicans have began to speak out. today, jeff flake announced he will not run for reelection in 2018. in his appearance this morning, senator bob corker says the president was dividing the nation. i wasr corker: i guess hoping he would bring out the best in the nation. what presidents do is try to unify around common goals and
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not defense or country. charlie: in a tweet, present trump called corker a --htweight trait >> we live a lightweight. >> we live in a land of ideals. we are custodians of ideals. we have done great good in the world. that leadership has had its cost, but we have become powerful and wealthy. we have a moral obligation and we would bring more shame on ourselves if we don't. charlie: and former president george w. bush said this -- nationalismeen resort to nativism. we see a fading confidence in the international market and trade.
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charlie: all of this comes as president trump met with republicans to discuss his tax reform agenda. joining me now from the washington post, robert costa. as you have seen these people, especially jeff flake, announcing he will not run again, knowing he would not have the support of the president. costa: what a moment, two senators, corker and lake decided not to run for reelection this year. for the political establishment, for their own party and for the country. the latter aspect is important to note because this is just not about the republican civil war which you now have veteran
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republican senators speaking out about the future of the country, calling president trump dangerous, a threat to national norms and institutions. his conduct unbecoming. the list goes on and on. charlie: and questioning history fullness. mr. costa: it was a question of character. charlie: what is going to be the outcome of all this? sayinge steve bannon they will challenge people in the primaries. manyosta: there will be consequences on capitol hill. this throws a wrench on what will happen with tax reform. they don't even have a bill yet, but they are having -- trying to have a census.
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try to make a pitch and just an hour later, blake makes this speech. this will have an effect in nevada for the incumbent is facing a conservative challenger. -- see in tennessee, there in alabama, judge roy more is in mitchunning mcconnell is likely to face an from a banllenge candidate. charlie: the president said he will support senator wicker. mr. costa: he says he will support senator fisher and nebraska as well. he was not able to do that with senator luther strange in alabama. charlie: do we know more about
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flake and what he is trying to achieve? culminationt was a of a year of criticism from senator flake. he wrote a book that was about going against president trump's ideology. this is a mainstream conservative who does not like the direction the gop is going. charlie: so we have civil war in the republican party? mr. costa: we do. we've had civil war in the republican party for nearly a decade. ever since the obama presidency began, we have seen the unraveling of the consensus that was established by president reagan. that was the core of what held
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the republican party together. over the last 10 years and we see ita reporter, all breaking apart. as it breaks apart, president trump has a grip on the base. people like senator flake and senator mccain, former president bush all speaking out appalled at this term. charlie: appalled at where they think the country is going? mr. costa: they are. they see this rising populism, nationalism -- a republican party they went through has certain values. they now see it in disarray and they don't know how to control it or bring it back and that is why when senator flake spoke about the fever in the country, he was speaking about that senate. charlie: it seems to me that if george w. bush speaks the way he did without naming the president
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-- if john mccain says what he said. they are really talking about holding the president responsible for the tenor of our times. mr. costa: that's right. speech was far more personal. he talked about the -- he cannot defend the president's conduct. normal the term not repeatedly. it was a question of character in the speech today. it will be sought from mccain and president bush days ago was really a question of ideology. flake is making it more personal. charlie: some people are saying in certain columns that people will like at this and they will ask you where were you when you when he saw this happening to the country, if in fact things are as negative as they see
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them. where were you and did you take a stand? mr. costa: there is. i'm always skeptical of that. the settlement sources i have talked to use that kind of phrase. where were you when trump was president. what they see as an apocalyptic moment in this country were norms are being erased, but you have to after that. many people in the country don't see the country in those terms and they do see the moment as an apocalypse. they see it as a breakdown of an establishment. charlie: and what percentage of the country has that point of view you just articulated represents? mr. costa: we have seen the polls. probably about 25% to 40%. we saw the suburbs in the
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midwest in 2016, and a lot of movement towards that one of you even if they were not attending trump rallies. we saw places because of the loss of manufacturing, anger, maybe racially charged politics. they were able to go around because of many factors. charlie: i think the remaining question is will this lead to other people feeling like they have to speak out in terms of how they feel about were the country gives today? he willa: i think continue to see retired republican lawmakers speak out -- i think you will continue to see retired republican lawmakers speak out. rethink theirl campaigns next year. i think house speaker ryan , they are thell
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weathervane i'm watching. not to much flake and corker. for now, there are with him in lockstep in many respects trying to move forward on the agenda and there is no unraveling their. bob costa from the washington post's. t.. costa mr. costa: thank you. ♪
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charlie: jenna conan is here. her latest book "man of the hour," is a biography of poor grandfather -- her grandfather. he helped oversee a manhattan project which produce the first atomic bomb. i'm pleased to have jenna at this table. this is a book you were born to write. this is a bust utah is intended to write -- this is a book you intended to write your it -- this is a book you intended to write. -- jenna: i knew i had to write it. tokyo park was about another manhattan project.
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i did oppenheimer. my grandfather and his wartime colleagues, they saw -- oversaw the wartime production of the bomb. he had a very big life. charlie: in fact, you said he had several lives. he did. jenna: he thought he would be an academic scientist and was on track to win it nobel prize when he got caps on to be president of harvard. 1930's? jenna: 1933. hiller came to power and roosevelt became president. it was a time science was changing the world. we were changing the way we thought. how did he end up being
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the president of harvard? harvard was at a moment when it was fading a little bit. it had new competitors. it was trying to figure out who should run the university. it was a challenging time. someone came to my grandfather and said, would you recommend and what do you think are the challenges facing harvard? he gave such a brilliant talk that the fellow went back and said i linked this obscure for the job.e man there was a huge horserace right up until the 11th hour. to an, they gave it chemist. he was 40 and was not well known at the time. charlie: --
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he emerged as a hero of the war. it had been seen as a weapon to .elp in the war the chemist emerged as sort of .hese famous figures were beingries spawned by chemist so they were seen as changing the next century. 'sey were visionary scientist are having division or scientist as the head of charlie: harvard seen the way to go. harvard seemed the way to go. -- scientists we want , do we want -- now, it was economic
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hard times and there were accusations of elitism as there are at harvard now and lack of diversity. my grandfather was from the other side of the tracks. he was from a working-class name -- neighborhood. he was from. chester like the kennedys. he did not want to oversee a school of rich man's sons. he immediately changed the policy and started a scholarship program has said we will widen the and and people of every background in geographical area and religion. this was unheard of at the time. of course, because harvard did it, all of the other universities followed suit which -- this, he was
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investing in educational testing and led to the development of the sat because he wanted to pursue the notion of fairness and merit and you advance on talent, not your birthright. charlie: how do you remember him? jenna: he was a very sweet man. weapons andrifying i think he have been humbled by history a little bit. he realized the nuclear force that he helped usher and had not made the world a safer place. charlie: he also realized in creating this awful weapon he had to think about the future. jenna: he tried desperately, even before the weapon was used, to control it. he had written a letter to give
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to truman to argued they had to control one's. there should be a national agreement. they fail to achieve international -- they failed to achieve an international agreement. keller won that fight and oppenheimer's reputation was destroyed in the process. he was accused of disloyalty and stripped of his security clearance. in my grandfather's view, was responsible for the fact we completed in a possible weapon in 27 months and he was driven out of washington like a thief in the night. my grandfather thought it was one of the great tragedies of american political life. charlie: he went back to princeton? jenna: he did. he was no longer allowed to sit
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on any of the government committees supervising the weapons that he himself had a waste oft was talent. for my grandfather, who helped create the weapon, and then saw proliferate, he absolutely visualizes the situation we are in today. in 1945, he wrote a famous speech in which he said if we get ourselves into a situation where we are in a nuclear standoff and two countries have stacks of weapons, it will be like two gunmen with itchy trigger fingers and we could be the loser. he first saw this very situation with north korea then and tried to avert disaster by cautioning restraint and intense diplomacy and not resorting to preemptive strikes.
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would he never call -- so many -- washington aalled lunatic asylum? jenna: he did. there are many parallels we're going through today. at the time in the 1950's, people's reputations were being destroyed. just bitter, personal fights in sohington, so i think he was dismayed that he asked eisenhower for an appointment and eisenhower made him high commissioner of germany, which was a very important job. if we did not solve the german situation, it was felt that we could get into a third world war
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and a nuclear war with russia. charlie: we remember a whole range of things that took place. felt he could be of service fair and he went to germany. he rearmed germany and ushered them into the nato treaty and tried to make them a block against soviet aggression as he .ought in the 1950's charlie coreie: what was his conscience? jenna: i think it was an ability to bring a cool, calm reason to enormous national crises. that is what he was known for. he was able to cope with situations of great urgency and
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danger and bring a lot of reason and history and anna enormous ability to cut through a lot of the politics that military ambition, the diplomatic complexities and, at the solution. he was a problem solver. he when hew old was died? jenna: he was 84. charlie: did he write his own memoir? jenna: he did. book. a good book, a dry charlie: that is why george bush 41 deserves some credit. he got john beauchamp to write his own book. most of them, with some exceptions -- stoic.they were no charlie: they were not writers
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in some cases. almost it was like the thing to do -- you had to write a memoir. i think we may see something different from obama because he is a writer. jenna: he was to start to admit any doubts. he never publicly second-guess truman's decision to drop the bomb. privately, i think he agonized about the second bomb. i think his guilt -- charlie: they had not come to the table after the first one. jenna: what most people don't understand is the order was never given to drop the second bomb. growth issuedlie one directive -- leslie growth ve --
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stated,andfather always truman could have issued an order to stop the second bomb, but a second order was never given. and a third bomb was in the works. charlie: by then, they had surrendered. thelong was it between second bomb and the surrender? was it soon after? jenna: yes. his guilt was not about the bombing of japan. wererrible as those losses -- a huge amount of americans would've had to die if they had invaded japan. jenna: my grandfather was firm in his belief that the bomb that
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help the war come to a quick end. his guilt was he helped usher in nuclear weapons and failed to control them. themie: 20 mean by control -- what you mean by control them what do you mean byntro control them? thought they could eliminate warts health. it sounds very naive, but oppenheimer, they really all came to believe this. charlie: do we know how close heather was to getting a bomb? .enna: he wasn't close at all
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the great debate is whether heisenberg deliberately dragged obstaclesnd put up because he didn't want hillary to get the bomb or whether they made a miscalculation. it is one of the most debated and closely examine areas of the war. charlie: the mind of heisenberg. yes.: he was such a brilliant scientist, their fear that he would get there first absolute. charlie: didn't he write a letter to rosenthal? jenna: he did. by 1939, it was spread all over. was convinced a bomb was not possible. he was not famous. he was a refugee with a take
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accent.n accident -- that convinced roosevelt to kick off the manhattan project. charlie: one of the most important letters ever written. jenna: there will -- were several drafts that they went through. einstein signed it. had hitler's got there first the consequences are too hard to imagine. father that was a rebellious son of a famous man so i was raised partly in japan. it was a strange thing to grow knowing the bomb had
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been drop their. you think of yourself as a writer more than a journalist? jenna: i do now. .harlie: almost as a historian jenna: that is what people say. i think of myself as a writer. i'm a storyteller. charlie: what fascinates all of us, later there's a battle of the -- for the hydrogen bomb. how did he win that battle? jenna: it was the height of thejenna: communist scare. a lot of forces were convinced that we needed bigger bombs and more bombs to make us secure. wastrait of the date overwhelming superiority. not we now know is there is
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missile intercept system that can catch every missile and how big your defense is you are not absolutely safe. one missile getting through would be a human catastrophe the s ther it is soul, guam -- seoul, guam, japan. -- my grandfather believe our only hope for civilization was supposed the end de-escalate in tensions, not escalating. living in the shadow of the bomb, we had no choice but to go forward and try and control it. that is the situation we were in. he liked to quote jefferson,
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that the survival of democracy depended on eternal vigilance. we had to be strong, but we had to negotiate. charlie: what year did he die? jenna: 1978. charlie: did he know the kennedys? jenna: he knew them well. isolationist. he wanted to make a deal with the germans and get on with it. side and the opposite thought those people that wanted to make peace with the germans go to business with the winning side so he and kennedy were on the opposite side, but the sons were all at harvard under him and in his years at harvard.
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charlie: did he have a relationship with the president? jenna: he did. he worked with kennedy. like so many americans, he had so much hope for kennedy and kennedy made him in charge of a number of education initiatives. shared my grandfather's belief that we had to do everything we could to invigorate public schools to make sure we opportunity that made america great. to his: his commitment belief in education, not simply , thatwho had easy access the future of the country depended on making sure there was diversity at universities
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and the rest of our people had opportunity to get education. jenna: the war shaped his education philosophy. he believed the best weapon against the enemy was to show democracy was better than communism. the diversity of our beliefs and the tolerance of diversity is what made us great repressivenst regimes. all the weapons in the world would not matter if we lost our core values. you for coming. great to see you. jenna: thank you. ♪
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♪ marvin caldas here. he was the cbs news state department correspondent. he served 25 years as founding director of media at harvard. guest scholar at the brookings institution. he just published his 15th book. he is a memoir called the year i was peter the great, 1956.
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kalbleased to have marvin back at this table. marvin: it is great to be back. charlie: i'm sure your grandchildren are proud of you. marvin: a lot of people have said stop writing about vietnam, russia, read about yourself. i said that is not the job of the journalist to write about yourself. began to get to me and yield to them on everything and my wife joined in. the idea was you don't have to write about your personal life. you can do it kind of professionally which is what i
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tried to do. it does not necessarily have to be you and your own personal life. it can be about you saw along the journey. marvin: exactly. charlie: in this book, two 1956s -- wanted you pick and why peter the great? marvin: 1956 is one of the most important years in russian history and the 20th century. of have stalin's, the end communism in 1991, but in 1956 -- all takeda khrushchev did something that was literally on heard of -- unheard of. party congress. it was a normal congress.
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a seven outate speech on how marvelous we are. -- he said you and i have to have another talk. the met after midnight and khrushchev went on for four hours and for the first time attacked joseph stalin, the man about the good only a great and wonderful things because if you went the other way he would not survive. andan a tough dictatorship when he died in 1953, everybody of any kind of power position was struggling with what do we do now. how do we run this country? do we do it as stalin did it. the answer was no because nobody was stalin so then khrushchev comes three years later and shatters the idea you could not
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russia.e the leader of you cannot do that. he did it to his successor. it in an honest, stunning way that left some people so shattered when they listen to it, but they were popping nitroglycerin tablets. some people died of heart attacks right on the spot. some committed suicide. .e attacked stalin you cannot do that and he said over and over again that was a murderer. he was a killer. he destroyed our country in the 1930's and almost by mismanagement of world war ii almost lost the soviet union to nazi germany. it doesn't have to be khrushchev or anybody in a position of authority.
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that was the worst crime of all. ofrlie: how to the contents the speech get out? marvin:marvin: that was the tricky thing. he said at the time he spoke this must be between the two of sergei his son thing his told me one father would say one thing, both operate under the table to make sure something else happened. he made sure that every communist leader around the world was aware of what he had said in poland, the communist leader sills and the head of the commonest party. a reporter was then told what he said. he then gave that to western reporters. the israelis were the ones who picked up the speech and gave it to the cia. the cia then released the speech
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in early june of 1956, by which time word had spread throughout the soviet union and at that time, a great historical moment was that the russian people freedom feel a touch of -- a whiff of freedom that they had never experienced and it was intoxicating. they liked it and they wanted more. --riff had let loose .hrushchev had let loose did whatan people intelligent people would do and then khrushchev was faced with something hernandez. her interests.r i this -- something
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horrendous. good thing tos a attack our communist. we are going to do that and we're going to do something else. we're going to cut loose from the soviet union. we are going to be independent. we want to be like yugoslavia. the minute they do, khrushchev was bombarded with pressure led by molotov. he was saying if you don't crush this immediately, you are out and khrushchev -- charlie: because we will throw you out? marvin: khrushchev had that decision to make. do you crush the hungarian revolution and retain power or do you really just let them have it? called thee book is
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year i was peter the great. you are in moscow. .ou had been to harvard you were getting a phd in russian history. he spoke fluent russian and you had an opportunity to work at the u.s. embassy in moscow and you grab it. -- grabbed it. participated in some diplomatic functions and khrushchev comes to one of those and meets you. one of the heroes of world war ii? marvin: yes. charlie: now you talk about a drinking thing them and making sure the person serving you is giving you water and he is getting popular and he's
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impressed you can hold your own. khrushchev is there and he takes you over to meet him. what happens? him when hed met came over to celebrate our july 4 party. there were four of us at the embassy which was woefully understaffed. said marvin,lin you will be in charge. i said that was ridiculous. i don't deal with marshall's. he said now you do. i read up on him and found out he really likes vodka so i worked with the ambassadors butler to work out a deal that on one end of the trade was locked up in the other end was water and whenever he was serving it he was to make sure
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-- he gott the water the market and i got the water. hour -- half hour or so, he was a bit tipsy. said he was about to marshallalked over and says i have finally found an american who can drink like a russian. of course, i did not drink. bolin looked at me strangely and says, it- khrushchev is wonderful you can drink a russian. says how tall are you? we had just been talking about
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great russian battles and i spoke of a battle that peter the 1709.had one in i said him six centimeters shorter than peter the great. said here comes peter the great and that opened up many doors. . was very grateful . visited every place i can go i went out to central asia throughout the caucuses, into ukraine, up into the baltic because i was so unimportant at the embassy that if i went to the ambassador and said you think if it is all right if i go to the kotter? he would say sure. stalin died three years before up country was just opening
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and they would allow diplomats to the open tuesday had never been allowed before so when i would show up at these places, i was alone, but i spoke russian. i knew about the country. i was aware that russian people are quite wonderful people, but you have to get over a little bit of caution on their part when they're dealing with foreigners, but once you get over that, they are very warm, very hospitable and i was treated very well at that time. edward: you also met numeral -- as one of ouru great correspondence. we claim you. marvin: thank you. charlie: what was the meeting with tomorrow about --
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harvardi went back to and was writing my dissertation and one day i got a call passed on to me by the library and that said edward is calling you. i said it must be a mistake and she came back later and said it is the same guy. i went and picked up the phone and the minute i heard his voice, i realized what a total nut and full i had been and i apologized immediately. he said no, i read the article you did for the times. he said i really liked it. charlie: on russia? .arvin: on russia's youth he set a liked it and i would appreciate if you come down tomorrow morning. would you be here? i said yes. i got a fresh shirt and went
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down. it's was supposed to be half hour meeting and we finished our discussion three hours later and ed was the sort of person like you. very curious about the world. wanted to know people. he asked me questions about young russians. russian marky like do they want to go to school? did you want to work in the field? what is their relationship with god? he asked that. what is their relationship with her parents? he wanted to know everything. after we dealt with that, about 10:30 in the morning, he took out a bottle of johnny walker black label scotch, put it down and put two large glasses and began to pour. charlie: 10:30 the morning. marvin: i saw that and i was
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shocked and he said you don't think -- drink? i said is there no job? he said no, it will just make it that more tough. he said put your arm around me and i melted. charlie: what is the state of journalism today? in charlie: how so? reasosns, oneo is financial. with the rise of the internet, the things that sustain newspapers. there's an enormous amount of medical type ads so that keeps that aspect of news going, but
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newspapers have been reduced. you pick up the newspaper today i was visiting my daughter columbia, south carolina. a very nice newspaper called the state, but it is a tiny paper and that is all of the country now. it is extremely important because we are at a point where you have to ask yourself, everything is going on in the world. we have a relatively new resident who has rejected -- injected uncertainty into local and national environment. as a result, you have to have been on the press, but yet the press is being attacked by the president as fake news, so you undercut the legitimacy of the news and to do that, you raise the question where you get your information from? what can you do that is honest,
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honorable, that is not fake news? and each individual in this country is now faced with that knee. to address the question of information, where do i get it #is it reliable? .nd, that takes work are the american people up for that responsibility? at the moment, i'm not sure. i want to say yes, but i'm really not sure. seenie: we also have recently the press to come by this president being called me. -- the enemy. marvin: that was something that in my judgment crossed the line. i did something earlier this year which i never done in my life. i have been involved in journalism for more than 60 years and in that time i never thought it was my job, as with
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this book, i'm telling the story that i never thought that i had to editorialize. that is not my responsibility to melissa didi editorial writer. but, when the president of united states said, that the press were enemies of the american people. to me, that crossed a line. know ifase -- i don't the president knew the origin of that phrase, but that comes right out of dictators of the 20th century. it was a phase -- the line of -- andstalin, a ocular adolf hitler. it was not a favorite line of thomas jefferson type people. it was of the time guys.
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-- it was of the bad guys. -- that it is all fake, why do that? -- one,ons psychological. the president wants to the above whatnd i believe there are i call creeping authoritarianism. that is where he would like us , whichn the other thing to me again is frightening, is if we live in an era of uncertainty, how do we know what is going on unless we had a press that we can trust? but, if we can't trust that press, then where you get your information? and the president would like us to believe that everything he
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says -- everything people supporting him say is true and everything else is fake. then, we are depending upon his version of thickeners and that leaves us extremely formal. theas not an accident that first amendment to the u.s. constitution speaks of freedom assemble,n, right to freedom of the press and of speech. that is because without that freedom, everything else is jeopardized. we have got to have that. called: the book is 1956: the year i was peter the .reat ♪
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yvonne: 7:00 a.m. in hong kong were we are live from bloomberg's asian headquarters. i am yvonne man, welcome to "daybreak asia." stocks set to extend in asia after wall street fell the most in seven weeks. uneven earnings keeping investors on edge. the race to the fed loses a prominent player. president trump gary cohn has no chance. out.: he is i am betty liu in new york where it is just after 7:00 p.m. wednesday. thursday will be a big day for tech. silicon valley heady -- heavy hitters reporting.


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