tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg November 21, 2017 11:00pm-12:00am EST
>> let's start with a check of your first word news. announced a new sanctions on north korea in the latest move aimed at isolating kim jong-un's regime. steven mnuchin says the penalties will impact shipping and transportation companies that have engaged in large-scale trade with north korea. former trump campaign officials paul manafort and rick gates will be a lot to travel for the thanksgiving holiday. a washington, d.c. judge granted separate requests from the two that they tell authorities when and where they are going and that they abstained from alcohol.
they have been under house arrest since late october when they were indicted for money laundering. french counterterrorism police have arrested three people in connection with the january attacks in paris that left 12 people dead. an official said two men and woman were taken into custody as part of an investigation. celebration erupted in following theital resignation of president robert mugabe. he given to overwhelming pressure from the military and lawmakers who were preparing to vote on the motion of impeachment. 27 hours -- 24 hours a day powered by 2700 journalists and analysts. this is bloomberg. ♪
annalee: this is -- emily: i am emily chang and this is bloomberg technology. the tough job that awaits her placement. slams the plan to roll back net neutrality. wheeler joins us to discuss what he calls a shameful sellout. means -- a bloomberg scoop. hackers to stall the personal data a 50 million customers and 7 million drivers, uber including the former ceo travis kalanick kept the breach a secret for a year. the chief security officer and another executive were criticized for keeping it under wraps other than report the
breach. uber paid by hackers $100,000 to delete the information. joining me now is bloomberg tech's eric. know in termso we of what happened here? >> it is so crazy. more than a year ago, uber heard from these actors the day they found a way to get information, names come a telephone numbers, that sort of information and then information at 7 million drivers. and drivers license numbers for 600,000 drivers. the concern here is that is information uber was required to disclose and it didn't. now with more than a year later, the company is deciding to come forward and say that they should have disclosed this information and here is what happened.
>> he is selling you the should not have happened, i will not make excuses for it we are changing the way we do business. think that they can get away from something like this? eric: while they were talking to the federal trade commission and just after negotiations with the new york attorney general, they face the question of what to do about this hacking. it is hard to imagine that this engenders any sort of trust with regulators. you already saw the instance with london where regulators there revoked uber's license. they just did not trust issue and the company had not represented very clearly what was going on. this is yet another sign that uber was willing to go to great lengths to hide information that it now believes it was required to report from regulators, and that certainly will give cities, states, and national governments all over the world serious
pause. emily: how can we be sure that this information did not get into anybody else's hands and that the hackers did indeed delete this information? eric: right. normally, hackers will wait and sit on information, so that is certainly a concern. uber's belief is they paid the $100,000. they have evidence perhaps that the files were actually deleted. we do not know who the attackers were, but they refer to them as these two individuals. i think right now there is a belief that that information is not out there in the public, and of course, uber is offering data protection for the drivers affected by the most serious information bridge here -- breach here. emily: what did the former ceo now and will -- know and when did he know it? eric: has not been ousted as
part of this along with another senior attorney. he certainly knew in november 2016 that this hack had taken place. he knew the company had been negotiating with the attorney general's office in new york and the fdc. there are questions about how much he knew the legal reasoning and legal obligations behind this decision, but he certainly knew about the hack and the scrutiny that they would face from regulators and attorney general's office is. emily: so what kind of penalty can uber face here? can they face some sort of consequences from regulators? could they be hit with a lawsuit, in fact?
eric: yes. anything is possible. as we reported before, uber faces ongoing criminal probes that have touched and at least five different areas to this is a company that over time regulators and law enforcement officials are looking at. there are dozens of civil suits against uber soviet certainly would not be surprising that something like that could happen but we have to wait and see what the actual consequence is. but you have to imagine that some sort of monitor or attempt to make sure that uber is doing what it says it is doing is something that regulators or law enforcement is going to be thinking about after these revelations. emily: now i know it may be hard to keep track of all of the open investigations, but what do we know about the status of those, and what are we likely to see, any kind of penalty? eric: we have not heard a lot new since my big story last month saying that there were these five investigations. one interesting fact here is joe sullivan, who has been ousted as part of this incident, was at the center or at least his organization was at the center of some of those things. you hear about the software
meant to help in some cases uber drivers evade law enforcement. there are some any questions. the ceo has to keep playing cleanup, and he knew that was what he was coming into. maybe he did not know quite the extent of it. the data breach is a total surprise. so many problems and the idea that there is a new one is shocking. emily: so joe sullivan was formerly chief security officer of facebook. he also worked at paypal and ebay. a long tenure for him in the tech industry. eric newcomer, thank you for joining us. great scoop by you. tesla is spending an average of $8,000 permanent as it ramps up production on its all-important
model 3 sedan. that would put the company on track to exhaust its current cash pile by early august so the pace is not expected to continue. tesla said it has implemented to meet its target of producing 5000 model three's by the end of march. coming up, hpe releases fourth one owner earnings and announces a major leadership departure. meg whitman wraps up six years. bloomberg technology is live streaming online. this is bloomberg. ♪
shares are dropping as much as 7%. seven point $5 billion in revenue for the quarter, missing estimates. joining us now is the executive vice president of research product for ibc. you just got off the phone with meg whitman. what did she have to say? >> right. i mean, that is why governance has been a top -- emily: looks like he is having trouble hearing me. can you hear me? you just got off the phone with meg whitman. what did she have to say? ok. cory johnson luckily is standing by with me right here in studio. you did not space to meg whitman, but you know the news. cory: she took on an impossible job, which is to turn hewlett-packard into a bigger and better business than it had been in the past and restore the glory as it had once been the
leader in silicon valley. the high-growth software services business, the router business, as well as the low growth printer and pc business, spun that off on the other side. she was supposed to be the ceo of the high growing business but it did not turn that way. it continued to shrink and spend billions of dollars in acquisitions and they are still taking write-downs. the restructuring charges in this quarter alone, they spent $10 million a week in restructuring charges. the one-time restructuring charges go back to 2001 with this company. not all her fault, but she could not find the right direction for this company to resume its years of growth. the number they put up show some growth, but if you pull back the
numbers, the important divisions were not growing or not going with any kind of size. a lot of leasing. they could not get the right product mix for today's world of technology. emily: president antonio neri will be taking over for her. we spoke to him a wild back. i asked him about his name being touted as a successor to meg whitman. take a listen to what he had to say. >> as you know, i have been with the company for 22 years. always in many different areas of the business. and i am very excited about the future of this company. emily: crawford is now with us. crawford, we were listening to antonio, who will be succeeding meg whitman. you spoke with meg whitman, just got off the phone with her. what does she have to say? crawford: obviously we talked about the quarter and also her legacy. what she feels like is hewlett-packard is innovating in a way that they were not intervening when she arrived.
if you look at the situation the company was in when she arrived, they were in a real haphazard situation with the exit of -- if you look at the playbook they are running out, they can innovate and they do innovate, but they still participate in a lot of relatively low margin tightness, but this company was irrelevant, heading to irrelevance 3, 4 years ago. the playbook of value areas of the infrastructure that they can add to their portfolio and sell through their channel is showing revenue growth. that revenue growth is something we have not seen for a number of quarters. now we see it in the second sequential quarter. relatively, meg and i talked about the business is performing better than it has been ever performing or at least in recent history. i think separate from that, you have to look at how is the job done, and i think that is the open question. emily: so tell us who is antonio neri, and what kind of leadership is he expected to bring to the company? crawford: i have had the pleasure of knowing antonio for a long time, over 10 years. he is an hper, pretty compact merger. -- pre compact merger. he knows everyone. he has had so many jobs. he climbed the corporate ladder
and is extremely well-regarded in the company. when she joined, 60% of the top managers were from hewlett-packard. now that number is completely reversed. here we have the ceo having climbed the corporate ladder. he is really well regarded within hewlett-packard, and he will go back to the roots of climbing the corporate ladder and taking his bumps internally and knows the organization in a unique way. emily: crawford, executive vice president of research product at ibc and our editor at large cory johnson, thank you so much. we will continue to follow the headlines as they come out of
emily: the federal trade commission is investigating cap advisor's business practices. this comes from the milwaukee journal in which travelers and their warnings of harassment and injuries were being blocked by the company. one example, of advisor blocked a woman's wanting on a hidden bathroom camera. at&t is telling the trump administration, we will see you in court. the justice department filed suit to stop at&t's $85 billion takeover of time warner. ceo randall stephenson says this in such as the idea of anti-trump law beyond the breaking point. he is vowing not -- whether the deal was influenced by president trump or not. speaking to reporters this afternoon, president trump had this to say about the deal. president trump: i am not going to get involved in litigation, personally, i always felt that is a deal that is not good for the country. pricing will go up. i don't think it is a good deal for the country, but i will not get involved in litigation. emily: the trump administration has taken a big step to putting the obama era net neutrality regulations. a december 14 vote will be held on overturning the protections those regulations are intended to prevent broadband providers
from favoring their business partner offerings or other content. he spoke with bloomberg radio today to defend his decision. take a listen. >> the fcc would require that all internet service providers be transparent about their business practices if they are blocking or throttling content, they have to disclose that. the ftc would have the ability to police providers if they are behaving in an anti-competitive way. we would be able to protect consumers going forward and promote investment in the networks that are necessary to promote digital opportunity. emily: joining me now to discuss this, the man who let the fcc during the obama administration when the protections were
instituted. i would like to welcome former fcc chairman tom wheeler. thank you so much for joining us. tom: hello. emily: you have said it is shameful, a sellout. why? tom: you just have to listen to that explanation that chairman pai just had. transparency is the solution? so all that is necessary to do something evil is to tell you that i am about to do something evil. that does not make any sense. and then, ok, what do you do once you have that information? to there's only household in america have no other choice -- two thirds of the household in america have no other choice. to claim this is some kind of consumer protection is a fraudulent representation. emily: they say their proposal is more fair, more proconsumer. what makes you think it is the opposite? tom: well, in the name of consumer protection, they say they are not going to protect consumers. in the name of better regulation, they say they will turn it over to the ftc, but yet
an ftc commissioner this afternoon tweeted that even if they do that, the ftc does not have the authority. they are running away from their responsibilities. emily: the big concern here is how this impacts the haves and have-nots, the folks who could increase future innovation, be responsible for future innovation. how would this impact the halves of the moment, google, facebook, netflix? tom: i think the important thing is, how does it affect everybody and their ability to get on the internet? and for consumers to reach providers and for providers to reach consumers. what we are seeing here is the cableization of the internet. if you like your cable company and in the way they can choose what you see and they continue
raising prices, you will love what happens under this repeal because suddenly the people making the rules are the networks. and the consumers cannot survive without the networks. and the service providers cannot survive without the networks. emily: so how can we hold isps accountable? tom: well, that is what we did in our open internet rules. we said there are some bright line rules. you have to provide information to the consumer and we will put a referee on the field to look at what your continued actions are as technology evolves and so the flag if necessary -- throw the flag if necessary.
the trump fcc is turning its back and walking away and giving the network companies everything that they have asked for. emily: this is unfolding against very interesting political backdrop. we just mentioned earlier what is going on with at&t's proposed merger with time warner. the doj now suing at&t. how much of this is politically motivated? tom: i cannot answer that question. i do find it shocking that the trump fcc from day one has gone right down the line what the big companies want when they are supposed to be representing consumers, not the companies. the fcc continually turns their back on their congressional mandate to protect consumers. emily: look, by all accounts, it appears this will happen in december.
for you, what is it like to watch your work be undone? tom: i have had better thanksgivings. the answer is this is a long process. it appears they have the votes to overturn it in december. then it will be up to the court. the decision we made twice went through the court and was twice confirmed by the court. and i hope that the court will look at this and say, hey, wait a minute. this has been in effect for 2.5 years and there have not been bad things that resulted. why are they turning around and going the other direction? emily: tom wheeler, former fcc chairman who live the efforts in the adoption of net neutrality. think you for joining us. later, we will be speaking with another fcc chairman who will bring us the other side of the argument.
♪ reporter: you are watching bloomberg. i'm deborah with the first white headlines around the world. the end of an era in zimbabwe. the country has lost the only leader they have never known. -- ever known. robert mugabe resigned as president. the world'sold was oldest head of state and had ruled since independence from britain. he quit after being placed under house arrest by the army and being fired by his own party. uber is being sued for negligence after bloomberg revealed it paid hackers to keep a breach second. they say the attack compromised
the names, email addresses, and phone numbers of 60 million customers and 79 drivers. the chief security officers and one of his deputies are being sued for their role in concealing the hack. outgoing fed chair janet yellen says while inflation should move back up in the year or two it's not certainty current environment is transitory. she said that that that is reasonably close to its goal, but tightening too fast could put inflation below 2%. as she prepares to step down in february, she had advice for her successor. >> one of the most important important toned making good policy is to keep an open mind. not to simply assume that history is repeating itself. another good day across the equity market and all markets, in fact. have a look at this reading
screen right here. all the way to the commodities here. close.going for a record a lot of the markets are coming through. it is more broad-based than it was yesterday. every market is up at the moment. the last 30 minutes in australia, a lot of the milestones getting in. shares,g, -- agent 12,000. taiwan dollar stands out the most here. dollar taiwan dollar, below 30 for the first time since 2014. at the moment, strongest level since 2014. the level we want to watch on 172 point 32. this comes down to what will has been happening in hong kong. the flood of money getting used up, especially coming from shenzhen, watch that close.
we are still on the lunch break right now. this is the function. you can get a sense of where we are at the moment. that is the outlook for markets. ♪ this is "bloomberg technology." i'm emily chang. two top stories. meg whitman is stepping down from her role as hp ceo. whitman is on a call with analysts and says there is no chance she will work for a competitor. another latebreaking story from uber and a bloomberg scoop -- the ride hailing company covered up a massive hack, affecting 57 million accounts. in 2016, hackers stole the personal data of 50 million customers and 7 million drivers. uber kept the breach concealed for a year, and instead of reporting the breach, the company paid the hackers $100,000 to delete the information.
we are staying on top of both of these stories. we will bring any headlines as we have them. the trump administration's efforts to roll back the obama era net neutrality protections. on fcc chairman pai was bloomberg radio to say that another federal agency, the ftc, will be there to step in and protect consumers in a more deregulated internet environment. >> the ftc has great expertise in this issue. prior to 2015, they applied a uniform set of rules to everybody in the internet economy. i'm confident they will be a will be able to perform consumer proconsumernd protections. emily: we just heard from tom wheeler, the fcc chairman who oversaw the adoption of net neutrality. now we are going to hear from somebody on the other side, former fcc chair robert mcdowell , who served under both presidents bush and obama. >> it's a tough day probably for tom emotionally, as he sees one
of his legacy items become i raised. what's happening is we are going to where things were in 2015. -- ally what a deep high is fromis putting back the clinton-gore administration. you have section five of the federal trade commission act, section seven of the clayton act, a lot of protections. you have the terms of service by each broadband internet provider, which is with consumers. if they were to discriminate in a way that harms consumers, there would be an avalanche of class action lawsuits, for instance. there are so many protections that were already in place in 2015 before this thing called title ii was entered into the internet ecosphere. it's actually just going to be fine. the sky is not falling.
there is not going to be some internet dystopia. it's going to be a better place, actually, as we look to invest $300 billion in new mobile technology 5g technology. ,we will need that you have america lead the world in wireless and the internet of things. it will be a great decade coming up. emily: we just got a question from a viewer who asks quite plainly, how does this actually help consumers? >> right. what we have seen since is a 2015 stutter step in investment in broadband networks. a number of independent studies and market analyses have found that cap has been curtailed in this space. the rate regulation has been swinging over isps. has about 1000 different requirements, created for a monopoly in 1934.
the fcc became the agency of mother may i. can we innovate, can we zero rate in a way that is proconsumer? the sec was this bottleneck all of a sudden for innovation and x are mentation in the marketplace -- experimentation in the marketplace. keep in mind that over 90% of consumers have a choice of four mobile broadband providers, contrary to what tom was saying. broadband speeds are much faster than they were just 10 years ago, and they will be 100 times faster after we wirelessly connect with 5g the internet of things. it's going to be a wonderful time. emily: how do we hold isp's accountable when this is mostly honor system-based? >> it's not honor-system-based. there are many laws already in effect here. what prevented isp's prior to tom's order from behaving in an anti-competitive way? it was section v of the federal trade commission act, the clayton act, state attorneys
general, but it was also economic incentives. it was the market. you have a competitive marketplace for broadband, at it is primarily mobile broadband. we see cord cutting and cord shaving. my kids are watching their video on over-the-top on devices like this through mobile broadband connections. it might be licensed or unlicensed. you have market pressure. you have other laws already on the books prior to 2015 that protected consumers, protected entrepreneurs, and it gave us this great internet ecosphere that we enjoy today. it's a myth that somehow consumers are unprotected after what the fcc is doing. quite the opposite. we have also been talking about the doj suing at&t over its attempts to acquire time warner. we were talking about how much all of these issues are politically motivated.
i'm curious of your thoughts on that given that you worked with both a democrat and republican administration as fcc chair. >> i did. i was just a commissioner, not chair, but i worked very closely on a lot of deals. for instance, sirius xm, or at&t's attempt to buy t-mobile, and we worked closely with the department of justice and sometimes the federal trade commission. what we are seeing is a reinvention of antitrust law and an attempt to do so with this complaint. there's a reason the government hasn't challenged a vertical deal where a distributor is buying a supplier in nearly half a century, and that's because they tend to fail, or there is no competitive harm. right now, the jurisprudence is stacked against the government. the government has the burden of proof here, and we are going to see an interesting case. get the popcorn out. there are two companies in america that know the most about antitrust law exxon and at&t.
, at&t was willing to go to court in 2011 in a horizontal merger where they were buying a competitor, t-mobile. it was the fcc that actually killed the deal. they were willing to go to court more than willing to go to court , and win. the government has a huge burden to overcome and would be creating a new paradigm in precedent here as they tried to argue in court. get the popcorn out, it will be an interesting couple of months. emily: the popcorn is out in deed. former fcc commissioner robert mcdowell, think you for joining us. coming up, e-commerce giants are gearing up for huge holiday spending sprees. how to protect yourself during this online shopping period, next. this is bloomberg. ♪
emily: meantime dish customers , will miss some thanksgiving football, including the nfl's dallas cowboys versus the l.a. chargers, this due to a fee dispute with cbs. according to the company cbs and , local stations in 18 cities were discontinued as of monday. dish accused cbs of "bringing its read into the homes of millions." cbs blamed dish for punishing customers instead of negotiating a new contract. sticking with the thanksgiving weekend, the holiday has more to offer than just food and football. it's infamous for black friday and cyber monday stores. -- sales. while brick and mortar stores might still be the hit, many are looking to hit the web for
serious deals over the weekend and into cyber monday. but with the convenience of online shopping comes the threat of cyber security. how can people protect themselves? joining us from washington, chief security officer phil quaid. thanks for joining us. what is your advice to people who are going to be shopping online over the next few days looking for deals when it might be prime time for hackers to catch someone unaware? >> you are spot on. it is prime time for cyber criminals, not just prime time for finding good deals. there are traditional things that are good to keep repeating. use strong passwords. make sure when you are registering on a new website, you are not giving out more information than you should. make sure you are giving your business to websites and vendors to practice good cybersecurity practices. there's also some advice for vendors, as well. this is the time of year where
cyber criminals try to hide in the noise and take advantage of the very high-volume that perhaps companies are not used to. now more than ever is the time to turn on those automated analytics to look for evidence of abnormal spending behaviors. emily: what about consumers? what should consumers be doing differently? >> there is no free lunch. the first thing i would say is, if you see a deal that is too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true. don't fall for it. another example of that, there might be examples of where someone sends you a link, and it is unusually small. it's called a tiny url. don't click on tiny url's. chances are it is some kind of phishing scam. deskarly on your deck -- top or laptop, you have to look out for sms texts on your cell
phone, which are being used as a threat vector. those links are indeed malicious. emily: i'm curious to get your thoughts on this in uber story we have been covering. uber covered up a massive hack attack on its network, hackers stealing the information of 50 million riders, 7 million drivers, and uber hid this for more than a year. what is your take? >> there is no cookie-cutter approach to vulnerability discover or compromise recovery, but based on the fact that i know now, this doesn't look like a page out of anyone's cookbook. chances are when you have an inevitable vulnerability or compromise, you need to have a practice that involves responsible disclosure, quick remediation, and give consumers confidence that you are doing the right things to make sure things like that would be prevented in the first place and won't happen again. emily: uber, instead of reporting it, paid the hackers
$100,000 to delete the information. is there anyway to be sure that the information was actually deleted, and the information never got into the wrong hands? >> i think we know by now that once something is digitized and placed on the internet, that has a life of its own. it is seldom in one place either intentionally or not. it would be a hard argument to say that stolen information was in fact deleted and not resold a number of times. emily: if you are an uber driver or uber customer, what should you do? you don't know if you are one of those 57 million. >> you don't, but it goes back to one of your questions earlier. as a consumer, give your business to companies that exhibit good cybersecurity behaviors and advertise what those behaviors are. as a consumer, pick the companies that will be responsible with your
information, but in the meantime, i will be looking for uber and, in the days ahead, to provide more information on what was disclosed in order to give consumers some options to figure out what they need to do in order to protect the information that has been exposed. emily: phil quade, fortinet chief security officer thank you , so much. back on the earnings front, salesforce has reported a quarterly profit thanks in part to an expanded lineup of cloud-based programs. revenue rose 25% in the fiscal third quarter, but forecasts for fourth-quarter profits of missed -- have missed estimates. shares are relatively flat. ceo marc benioff has been looking to newer products offering marketing and e-commerce services to increase growth and adding machine learning to attract more clients amid heightened competition from microsoft and oracle. coming up, it is a race between alexa and siri.
emily: before we continue to watch, there's a report that apple's iphone x was being built with high school students illegally working overtime. according to "the financial times," apple's main supplier in china foxconn had the teenagers working 11-hour days in an effort to catch up with demand. foxconn says it has taken action to correct the situation. in a battle of voice-activated assistants, apple may be
losing to amazon. the homepod is set to make its debut early next year more than three years after the launch of the amazon echo, but it is not just about timing. apple's device lacks many of the capabilities that make the echo such a hit. mark gurman, our consumer tech and apple products reporter, joins us from l.a. you brought us the scoop earlier that apple would be delaying the home pod until next year. now you are diving into the features that the homepod doesn't have compared to the other products. what should we be looking at here? >> in terms of the time between a competitor launching a new category and apple following up, apple typically does this, come out with something that leapfrogs the competition, but we -- what we are seeing with the homepod situation is a product of not only come years after amazon, but it totally
misses the point in terms of what amazon is hitting at. they are going after another category that people are not necessarily asking for. people want a cloud-based device like the echo that can do everything for you, everything from ordering groceries to ordering lunch and dinner, making appointments, calling on uber or lift. what apple has brought to the table is a great loudspeaker, something that other companies like sonos have established a footprint for. emily: when i spoke to tim cook, i asked specifically, does this mean apple is getting into e-commerce? he said, no, i don't think so. you should look at this as an audio device. that is where they think they are adding value. take a listen. tim cook apple is a company that : deeply cares about music and wants to deliver a great audio experience for the home. we feel like we reinvented it in the portable player area, and we think we can reinvent it in the home, as well. emily: is he right that there is a desire to reinvent the audio experience in the home, or is that not what customers want? reporter: let me take us through
some history. in 2006, steve jobs at the time, the late apple cofounder, unveiled a product called the apple hifi. it was $350, and the pitch was to reinvent home audio and sound . that product didn't fare too well. although this was 10 years ago, the product was a massive flop for the company and a black eye. it was discontinued less than two years after it came out. here's apple coming out with the same approach, an audio device , a speaker, that sounds perhaps better than the competition and integrates with apple's products better, but it's not a true leapfrog product. it is not an advance like the , the firsthe iwatch in their respective categories. emily: what do customers want, and is it e-commerce, and can we expect siri via the home pod to offer any of these features? reporter: alexa and the echo has
been a smash hit for an e-commerce giant like amazon, and it basically can do everything with voice. it can control your music. you can control your home. the homepod won't be able to do much beyond that. in terms of e-commerce come into the homepod, one of the key differences between the homepod and echo is that the echo is a product. the homepod is next engine of -- extension to the product, which is the iphone. there are thousands of apps for alexa, whereas the homepod relies on the iphone for third-party applications. the iphone apps that work with it are limited to three categories -- text messaging through apps like wechat and i message and facebook and skype, but the other apps are just notetaking apps and to do list apps. it is a very limited subset of applications that are limited to working with siri that are going to work with the homepod.
this thing has a processor and chip in it of comes straight from an iphone. it should be powerful it should , have all of these enhancements in it. remember, apple had all the tools to come out with a killer product like the echo. it has had itunes since the early 2000's. and was the first to mainstream voice activation since obviously, apple has been 2011. the king of the hardware industry in terms of making cool looking, well put together products for several decades. they should have come out with an echo like device five years ago, not amazon. emily: all right mark gurman, it , will be an interesting holiday season and 2018. we will be watching. thank you so much for joining us. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." a reminder we are live streaming , on twitter. check us out at bloomberg tech tv weekdays 2:00 p.m. and san francisco, 5:00 p.m. in new york. that is all for now. this is bloomberg. ♪
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