tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg May 28, 2019 11:00pm-12:00am EDT
second public listing. huawei founder and ceo says there is no need for negotiation in the face of u.s. trade sanctions. more from our interview with huawei headquarters in shenzhen. facebook investors are looking to shake up the social media giant and limit mark zuckerberg's voting power. but the proposal can't face without the support of the founder and ceo. one investor who has been tirelessly trying to push for changes, the ceo of northstar asset management which owns 12,000 shares. goodrich submitted a proposal for the fifth straight year suggesting they change their voting structure which gives zuckerberg absolute control despite owning a minority of shares. >> facebook has gotten itself into a lot of trouble over the past couple of years. we own as much as 50,000 shares over the time since the company went public.
i think this is an opportunity for shareholders to weigh in and really for citizens to think about what privacy means, what kinds of internet access we want, what information we think we are sharing. this is an opportunity to weigh in on the ethics around data gathering and dissemination. i felt for the last several years when we look at companies like facebook, google, where you have the primary founders of the company having these gigantic super voting majority shares, and we start seeing them having all kinds of problems in the realms of their business they never even imagined they would have problems in, we have to look at corporate governance, oversight and think about, is he equipped to have all of the control at this point? romaine: some would look at
facebook's earnings statements and would make arguments the company is doing growth, topline growth is still growing, still adding users. despite the ethical issues that are legitimate and could be raised, they are making money for investors, stock prices still up. why should they change? julie: because some of their policies are getting them into hot water and they should have a perspective on what they are doing. i was thinking of the trouble they got in with the cambridge analytica scandal. we got another major election coming up in 2020. these guys have got to have a perspective on what their responsibility is in terms of creating. if they will be a news station which they they are, they should be held up to the same standards the rest of the media is. emily: i wonder if you have gotten responses from the other shareholders. mark zuckerberg ultimately would
decide if this will be voted on, but have you talked to anyone from capital group or tivo price or the more passive investors like blackrock? what is their response? julie: we don't spend a lot of time talking to other shareholders. we make our case with facebook and the other companies with challenges, we try to make our case again with the securities and exchange commission. what is interesting about our resolution is last year the class a shares where it is one vote per share, we received 83% of the vote. those represent the people you are talking about. they represent the blackrocks and all of the other major mutual fund companies. romaine: we have a recent statement from facebook regarding their safety issues. they say our recent efforts to improve safety and security of our community have required
significant investment which has impacted profitability. this level of investment may not have been possible if our board of directors and ceo were focused on short-term successes over long-term interests of our community and companies. there is a bigger issue about the dual costs shares structure and these are put in place because of the long-term vision of the founders, these people that have these long-term stakes and there is a buffer against short-term interest of investors. how do you respond and you think it is possible for companies to come to market with these structures to sort of change and move to something more equitable? julie: it would be more equitable if everyone had one vote per share. people in the past like mark zuckerberg, if they want to maintain in the company control, they should hold on to 51%. that makes sense.
i don't see any reason why this business of corporations being stressed out about quarterly earnings, that is something that has been an issue for years and years. it doesn't mean it is right or that companies should be worried about quarterly earnings and not about sort of growth over a long time, that it is not a reason why there should be a majority vote for class b shareholders at facebook. emily: julie goodridge, ceo of northstar. i want to bring in the david kirkpatrick wrote the book on facebook and current when who covers facebook -- kurt wagner who covers facebook. >> not going to pass. emily: definitely not going to pass. >> it is the fifth year julie has presented these that all shares should have one vote instead of the 10-1 splits. for the last four years it
didn't work and she didn't expect it to. mark zuckerberg said they would vote against it. we know how it plays out. emily: many put forth these to make some sort of statement but in this case what is the point? david: the point is to make a fundamental argument for what could reform this company's governance, and it is stunning 83% of the shareholders that are independent voted to support this last year. that is unusual in corporate governance that independent shareholders would be that much in favor of anything. there is obviously extremely strong opinion among shareholders for not affiliates of mark zuckerberg that this is a change that needs to be made.
there is a wide and growing view that even beyond facebook, super voting shares are one of the reasons we have a view of silicon valley as increasingly irresponsible. uber is another company where after they eliminated shares they got rid of travis kalanick. there are plenty of cases where this has caused problems. if i was a shareholder who spoke, i don't believe it is either or, that you have a dictator or you just have to be a slavish follower of wall street's short-term mentality. there are other middle term functions. emily: there are other tech companies that have this, alphabet and companies coming to market like lyft has that. snap. in order for any proposal taking any real momentum, what mark zuckerberg have to quit? kurt: yes. he is at 58% control of all of the votes. right now there is nothing that
will happen without his say. there are people that would think if you get a large number of people including institutional investors to back this and it might finally sway him to make a decision or make a change. the other thing is if people play against the stock price, shorting the stock, trying to drive it down, could that -- we have not seen that happen and facebook has had a good run on the stock market but we are waiting for mark zuckerberg. emily: there is a growing chorus of people calling for facebook to be broken up. chris hughes, the cofounder and now notorious -- regulators in the united states, lawmakers in canada who requested mark zuckerberg and sheryl sandberg in canada. they did not show up. they sent other facebook executives. at what point does this course
-- chorus get loud enough to make more of a change? david: i am not sure breaking into its parts is the answer. i think governments will play a role here and with regard to the question of what could cause this super voting shares to become eliminated, it is possible the sec or even congress could decide it should not be allowed. how it would be eliminated is interesting to speculate about. i believe in the case of facebook, zuckerberg has had too much power and has not thought through the issues that affect the company's long-term success. it is not the case because the share price is ok, not as good as it was a year or so ago, it is ok means all shareholders should be happy. there are innumerable challenges to the social legitimacy that
continue to be real. emily: on the question of breaking up, i spoke with the head of facebook's policy last week. monika: when i hear people asking about if we are too big, i ask about concerns of being responsible, safety, privacy and that is why we are doing things to show we are responsible. emily: would you agree? shery: she is glib. i don't agree. another thing, we need to remain -- only because we are so big and profitable we can spend the money necessary to remediate the harms but that is a clock because they are spending, making way more than they are on remediating the harm which is
why unfortunately or fortunately, shareholders are still thrilled and want to buy it and it has been a generally performing ok stock. emily: what else will happen thursday because this is not the only proposal? there are others including a proposal protesting the nominations of -- to the board. kurt: and one to step down and replace the chairman. these are being voted on by the same individual with the majority of the votes, mark zuckerberg. facebook recommends shareholders reject these proposals which is a political way of saying we will knock them down. there will be some people making a lot of noise. emily: kurt wagner, david kirkpatrick, founder of
techonomy, good to have you both. tesla is getting ready to reveal how much it will charge for its made in china car. people are guessing on the price. tesla is counting on its shanghai factory to be competitive in china but it could be in jeopardy in the midst of u.s.-china trade tensions. still ahead following the record-breaking ipo in 2014, alibaba is considering a second listing in hong kong. this is bloomberg. ♪
kong. this would rival its thing in new york and 2015. chinese companies are grappling with a deal on the hostile u.s. government. this would bring china's largest company closer to investors on home turf. let's bring in elizabeth fournier who leads our coverage. what we know about this? >> it is a huge skip over the weekend. we know the alibaba is looking at a playing for come up permission to file this later this year. this is a big clue for hong kong after missing out five years ago but they got their new york one. this is an opportunity to win back this national treasure of a company. emily: how much does it have to do with trade tensions? elizabeth: the timing is interesting. this is being called a trade
were ipo. those kind of investors that use this company every day unlike american investors who could start turn away from chinese investments. the other thing is hong kong stock exchange has changed its rules around companies that have multiple share classes. they started doing this after they lost out the first time around. there was a longtime time of consultation for alibaba and now it has opened up the market to companies like this to start looking there for listings. emily: alibaba shares have taken a dive over the last six weeks or so. can we attribute that to trade tensions? elizabeth: it is hard to tell. these tech stocks of the first to get hit when there is market uncertainty and the trade war doesn't help but over the last
five years this has become a huge company, still way up based on the public. overall a big success. emily: what steps could alibaba be taking we be looking for towards making a final decision? elizabeth: one of the big things is the bank mandates, who they will be getting an how things are going in terms of conversations with local investors and the local demand. looking at the second half of this year to start the process, they are doing a very busy time for these tech listings. we have had uber and lyft, not as successful. there are slow companies we are expecting to come to market. there is a march a big tech companies looking to raise money from investors. emily: elizabeth fournier, thanks so much.
cryptocurrency is up 140% following a painful downtrend that lasted the majority of 2018. big tech companies like at&t and facebook pushed into the market. joining us now is our guest. what is behind this? >> it is all about fundamentals. the recent downturn and upturn two years ago was not fundamentals but hysteria and momentum. markets are waiting for companies like j.p. morgan, goldman sachs, fidelity to get in the space and it is happening now. jpmorgan got in. at&t takes bitcoin. fidelity has launched a project. e*trade and facebook might be doing something. you see these currencies have real use cases around the world and is making people excited
because they can see the light at the end of the tunnel. emily: emily: some strategists that said it is beyond bitcoin's intrinsic value. sonny: sonny: you see j.p. morgan with stable coins. they do it regardless of the price of bitcoin by showing these currencies have use cases around the world and are offering to their best clients. they are the biggest validation of this whole space. emily: let's talk about facebook and their secret crypto departments. what are they working on? sonny: i have no knowledge. i have some ideas. they are trying to be like international then mode, using facebook message or -- international venmo, like using facebook messenger. what i think is great, the general currency industry, now j.p. morgan has a coin where
governors say bitcoin is illegal. it brings digital currency to 2 billion users around the world. and it puts competitors on notice. what are google, rakuten, alibaba, what are they going to do if facebook launches a coin that gets traction? emily: at&t is excepting bitcoin as a form of payment. i can pay with bitcoin. it is hard to imagine there are a ton of at&t wireless subscribers that would want to pay in bitcoin. is this a gimmick to make the company seem tech forward? sonny: i paid my bill last week in bitcoin. i will email you instructions. at&t likes it because it is innovative. they saw the value of it. it is cheaper than a credit card. they save margins when someone makes a bitcoin payment. it was a no-brainer because they are making money every time. it is more innovative but a better payment option. emily: are we hitting a peak?
do you think it will keep rising or can? sonny: i do because the real products haven't launched. facebook coin hasn't launched, fidelity is still on beta. who knows what will happen. facebook -- it came out of nowhere because the industry changes so much. that is why you have to be long this industry. we are just starting tip of the iceberg. emily: we are waiting for regulators to weigh in and could they throw hurdles into this? sonny: it would be hard if j.p. morgan and facebook have a coin. facebook and j.p. morgan we like but bitcoin and ethereum we don't? the industry is waiting for regulations to follow and adhere to to perform everything legally. emily: i am sure i will have you
back to check you on these facts . look forward to it. emily: predictions from the future. sonny singh, thank you. the white house plans to create a new panel to downplay climate change and discredit legitimate science on the topic led by controversial security council director william -- he said in the past carbon dioxide is a benefit to the world. he founded an advocacy group that promotes criticism of climate science. the huawei ceo is defiant in the sanctions. our exclusive interview. a purge could be on the horizon for amazon vendor's. how this could affect thousands of small suppliers. this is bloomberg. ♪
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emily: this is "bloomberg technology." i am emily chang in san francisco. now, to huawei after being blacklisted by the united states in may. in an elusive interview with bloomberg's tom mackenzie, the founder and ceo, ren zhengfei, says the company is prepared to carry on without the business it depends on from the united states. he spoke from the company headquarters in shenzhen. mr. zhengfei: the u.s. has never bought products from us. even if the u.s. wants to buy our products in the future, i
may not sell to them. there is no need for negotiation. i will ignore trump. then, with whom can he negotiate? if he calls me, i may not answer. i have seen his tweets, and they are laughable because they are contradictory. reporter: the list of companies that supply huawei with components and also software that are now cutting off supply, growing. intel panasonic, qualcomm, , google, as well. i guess the question is, for how long can huawei survive without those supplies, both components and software? mr. zhengfei: the u.s. manages its own companies. the u.s. is not the international police. they cannot manage the whole world. the rest of the world decides whether they should work with us based on their own business interests and positions. if some companies do not want to work with us, it is like a hole in the airplane.
we are working to fix the hole, but the airplane is still able to fly. of the chips we have been using, half are from u.s. companies, and half we produce ourselves. if the u.s. puts further restrictions on us, we will use -- reduced purchases from the u.s. and use more of our own chips. if american companies have permission from washington to sell to us, we will continue to buy from them. reporter: what exactly have you put in place in terms of contingencies? mr. zhengfei: we might have contingency plans for the core of the airplane, the engine and fuel tank, but we may not have a plan for the wings. we need to review the situation all over again and fix those problems.
you can come back to interview us in at two or three years to see if we still exist. if we are gone in two or three years, please remember to bring a flower and put it on our grave. reporter: you have talked about having a two-year lead in terms of 5g on your competitors. does that get a road in? mr. zhengfei: definitely, if we slow down, and if the wing of the airplane has a lot of holes, if we fly slowly but others fly fast, of course, they can catch us up. we will keep fixing the holes. we will fly fast again once the holes are fixed. reporter: how much damage do you expect to be felt in the consumer division? smart and laptops which depend , on u.s. chips but also u.s. software? mr. zhengfei: we might miss our expected growth target, but we are still growing. being able to grow is the
toughest battle environment. that just reflects how tough we are. reporter: you have bragging rights. you overtook apple as the number two smartphone maker. smartphone sales jumping by 50% . of course, you have the goal of becoming the number smartphone one maker in the world. does that goal now have to be shelved? mr. zhengfei: we can become bigger or smaller. we are not a public company. we are not only pursuing growth or profit. it is good enough for us to just survive. reporter: there have been calls by some in china for beijing to retaliate against apple. is that an action that china should be looking at taking? mr. zhengfei: that will not happen, first of all, and second of all, if that happens, i will be the first to protest. apple is the world's leading company. if there was no apple, there would be no mobile internet.
if there was no apple to help show us the world, i would not see the beauty of this world. apple is my teacher. it is advancing in front of us. as a student, why should i oppose my teacher? i would never do that. reporter: the critics of huawei would say you got to where you are through intellectual property theft. also, government support. what is your response to that? mr. zhengfei: the u.s. has not developed that technology. from where should i steal it? it is more likely that they steal our technology, now that we are leading the u.s. if we were behind, trump wouldn't need to make so many efforts to attack us. he attacks us because we are now more advanced than them. emily: that was ren zhengfei with bloomberg's tom mackenzie. the ceo of huawei. u.s.-china trade
tensions and the impact it will have on the overall tech industry, we are joined by the ceo from the consultant firm activate in new york. so, michael, what was your take on what ren zhengfei had to say? michael: no one is going to win in this tech cold war, so we run the risk of having these two intranets, china and the rest of the world. so a lot of what he is saying is true. they can still flourish without the u.s. at the same time, so much of the u.s. tech industry is intertwined with companies in china. as much as this may seem like it's about u.s. tech supremacy, these policies from the u.s. perspective are really misguided. this is not like steel in terms of being able to shut out one supplier. huawei is integrated with the rest of the world and with the entire rest of the tech
industry, and that is what he says he does not want there to be any retaliation against apple. emily: so some would argue that we already have two internets. china does not have facebook, google, many of things that at least make the american internet so distinct. aren't we already there? michael: well, no. right now, we have apple and an android operating system. how are we going to feel when huawei and other chinese companies create their own mobile operating system, when they are no longer buying american chipsets? i think we are ending up in a world, we are going to end up in a world that none of us like, and it will really stymie the growth of american tech companies and leave the chinese market wide open for local competitors. emily: that said, do you worry about security risks and surveillance issues that the administration is so concerned about? michael: i worry about the security and surveillance
issues, but i do not think it is just concentrated in these companies. i think anything, any of these companies can be hacked. any of the equipment, whether it is a chinese company or an american company, they can all be used for other means beyond what they are intended for for protection or for good surveillance, so i think that we are, once again, we are focused on these companies because one way or another, they are controlled by the chinese government, but that does not mean we should not be worried about others. some control about one third of the global market chinese companies, but there are lots of other companies, and their equipment can be compromised the same way. emily: bloomberg has reported on a number of different companies that could be affected the most by the trade tensions, by an increasingly separate china, not just apple but also marriott, nike, marvel.
entertainment. beyond two internets, what do you see if we keep going beyond this current path? michael: the problem with this path is it is focused on technology, but it really should not be around protection. it really should be around intellectual property. the biggest risks to most of the american companies, whether they are in oil and gas or they are in technology or any other business, is protecting -- the protection of their intellectual property in china, and that is really where this focus should be. it really shouldn't be just on security, because the security risks are widespread. the intellectual property risks are real, and they are not being addressed. emily: so what are you most concerned about, especially given huawei's leadership position in 5g? michael: i think what i am concerned about is that none of these companies is an island, and it ends up stymieing the
growth of american companies that are supplying the chips, whether it is qualcomm and others who are driving these changes, and so, huawei, he is right. huawei could create their own ship. -- their own chip. they have access to a lot of intellectual property, so i worry about the balkanization of the internet, where so much of the technology industry is about companies and countries coming together. emily: now, let's say president trump and president xi do reach an agreement. do you think at this point , things can just go back to normal, or that after this sort of blowup, many of these companies would resort to plan b anyway and start focusing on how they can make their own chips and focus on chinese technology rather than american technology? michael: i think the plan is already there, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will follow them.
the impact in some ways could be greater in u.s. companies. look at how really intertwined the supply chain is of most of the american technology theanies with china, percentage of the manufacturing that takes place in china. some of that may move to other places like vietnam, but it is really hard to break this up. right now, it can be undone. if we are talking about much further down the road, it is going to be a lot harder. >> michael wolff, founder and ceo of activate. always good to have your perspective here. thank you for stopping by. global payments has agreed to by total systems services in a deal billion. $21.5 in the payments industry, it will be the third-biggest megamerger of the year, providing software technology to millions of merchants and more than 1300 financial institutions. coming up, amazon and how it
emily: thousands of small, longtime amazon suppliers are holding their breath for an expected purge that may favor larger brands. in the coming months, the company will stop taking bulk orders from small vendors and instead concentrate on wholesale brands like sony, proctor and gamble. according to people familiar with this, it is to cut costs and compete with the likes of walmart. joining us from seattle our reporter who covers amazon for us, spencer. what exactly is going to happen
here? spencer: we have to look at amazon just being more finicky about which vendors it is willing to have wholesale relationships with, so this would be like a traditional retailer, amazon buying bulk quantities in wholesale and reselling it to customers, possibly at a markup or a profit. what it wants to do is have fewer relationships like those and push more of these smaller vendors to its marketplace, in which case the product supplier is the one responsible for posting the products on amazon, for advertising them, for overseeing how well they are selling and all of the managing that goes along with it. amazon doesn't want to pay people to do that. amazon wants the smaller brands to do that themselves. emily: this would be, if it is truly happening, one of the biggest shifts in amazon's e-commerce strategy and two decades. yet, in a statement, a spokesperson told us we review our relationships as part of our
normal course of business, and any speculation of a large-scale reduction of vendors is incorrect. how do you explain that? spencer: i think i would really zero in on "large-scale." that is something that is -- there is a lot of room to interpret that phrase, and so amazon is not really disputing that these changes are coming. they are characterizing them in a different way, so all of the information we have is that this is going to be big, affect thousands of sellers, and that there is a big shift that has been in the planning for many months that is coming down the pipe. emily: so will shoppers see a difference? spencer: not really. most shoppers, right now, they do not really realize if they are buying something from amazon retail or amazon third party. you see something on amazon and click "buy" and wait for it to be delivered. there might be a differentiation in the amount of time you wait for it to be delivered. that's about the only
difference. there are some small icons if you are really paying close attention to see where you are buying from. so it is less of a customer move it is more of a supply , chain move and more of a financial metrics thing. amazon is going to have more revenue coming in from its marketplace, less revenue coming from the retail side, and what all of that means is that the marketplace sales are more profitable for amazon, so it is basically amazon trying to get more sales through this more profitable channel that requires less overhead from amazon. emily: but how big a deal is this for a smaller cellar? -- smaller sellers? it certainly seems like it is cutting off a big source of guaranteed business? spencer: it is hard to say precisely. it is not going to affect all of them the same way. some sellers have been preparing for this and getting to know how to sell things on amazon marketplace. for those people, it should be a smoother transition. but if they are a wholesaler that has been counting on getting a big order from amazon every month or so and getting a big check and amazon doing the
rest, it will be a very big and abrupt change for them, especially with the holiday quarter coming if this goes through soon. they have to basically learn an entire new ray -- new way of reaching customers in time. they will have to learn how to do it themselves and very quickly. emily: if this happens, is this more competition for the big retailers like walmart or target? spencer: it is less more competition for them, more amazon using its own resources and manpower more wisely. it wants to focus on those that it currently has to maintain these wholesale agreements. it just wants to focus on the biggest and most important ones and not add more people to that department while amazon's overall e-commerce sales continue to grow, so it is largely a thing of accommodating more growth without hiring more people with the end goal of just making the business more profitable. emily: all right, spencer soper for us from seattle.
thank you for that reporting. mackenzie bezos has committed to giving away part of her fortune following her divorce from jeff bezos, one of 19 new mega-donors to join the giving pledge of a philanthropic campaign founded by bill and melinda gates and warren buffett. she is set to receive a 4% amazon stake in the divorce, worth about $37 billion. she joins 18 other signatories to the pledge this year, including a hedge fund upitalist and what's co-founder. jeff bezos's himself has not signed the pledge. coming up, apple betting on its first handheld to make a comeback. why the company is rolling out a new ipod touch, next. this is bloomberg. ♪
emily: a warning that apple's earnings in fiscal 2020 could fall by 26%, if there are other falls. speculation that may happen in response to the trump administration blacklisting of huawei, shares down more than 10% this month. speaking of apple, they have unveiled their first updated ipod touch in four years. the new model will cost $199 and will support new services like apple tv plus and apple arcade. 2000, an instant hit in one but recently it has been overshadowed by the iphone. i want to bring in bloomberg tech's mark. why now? mark: we are a few days ahead of the worldwide developers conference, and every time they come out with a major new ios
release, the software that runs on these devices, it occasionally loses some compatibility with devices. the ipod touch has not been updated since 2014 and it is primed for that because it has older components and an older processor. now what they are doing is basically adding the chip from the iphone 7, a phone that came out three years ago, basically extending the life cycle, the lifespan of the ipod touch and making it compatible with whatever the next software update is this year. emily: who is in the market for an ipod touch? you think you can just get an iphone or an ipad. who wants to buy an ipod touch? mark: what you are seeing is some parents putting them in the christmas stockings of their kids. this is, in many respects, an entry-level ios device for kids who may not need or want a cellular plan. of course, it is much cheaper. the iphone x costs $1000.
this is $200, so it is 1/5 of the price. if you are someone who lives in the android ecosystem in terms of your phone and want an ios device on top of it, a secondary device, an ipod touch is an -- what you might be looking at if you want something like an ipad, but that is pocketable. ipod touch is another possibility, likewise someone who would like to use a digital camera. so there are plenty of uses for it. you see a lot of stores using them as point-of-sale devices, so there is a market and it would make sense that apple would update it, but not too much. they are actually not really doing anything other than swapping out the processor, which naturally makes it compatible with more software features and services they have been rolling out over the past several months. emily: ok. i stuff my stockings with bubblegum. [laughter] how does this fit into apple's broader content and services push? mark: the ipod touch is now the cheapest way people are able to subscribe to apple services, at least that is what they are
pushing this thing as and positioning it for. if you go on their website, their marketing and pr copy is all about the services, which makes sense given what we have seen lately. they have also talked about this device as an augmented reality device. the processor on the previous version of the ipod touch in 2015 was not fast enough to support many of the a.r. apps. other than that, not a big update. this is basically unlocking the to do all the stuff you can already do on an iphone or an ipad. emily: so we have got the conference coming up next week, and of course, you have reported on a lot of things we are expecting apple to unveil. what are you looking forward to? mark: yes, it should be pretty action-packed. i'm expecting big updates to the apple watch operating system and the ios that runs on the iphone and the ipad and the mac. the big entree of the day i think is going to be unlocking
ipad apps for the mac. that means developers who write ipad apps will be able to port them to a mac. so look for facebook and others to get into the mac ecosystem for the first time or even the first time in a while, in the case of twitter. also, the apple watch is going to become more independent. that is going to be a big theme, driving the app store to the watch itself is going to be a big move for consumers and developers looking for additional exposure. on the iphone side, i don't think it will be a significant update because there will be lots of tweaks on the system. the ipad is going to get a big update to make it more compatible with more pro features. what you have seen them due to the ipad pro last year was i think quite frankly amazing. harbor isat ipad pro one of the best tablets or mobile computers you can buy. emily: ok, our very own mark gurman, as always, thank you for your reporting.