tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg September 5, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT
pushing back on the initial share filing until 2022. forget facebook likes. facebook love?ook more on the plan for their dating service. significantly reducing its valuation ahead of the ipo. they are saying we could now target closer to just $20 billion. one company could be hit even harder. and its affiliates who own a 29% of wework. this is a software company using protista helped create -- , -- in new york
let's put this in context. you have been keeping abreast of the numbers. why the lower valuation? $47 billion is what the last funding round was at and now it is at 20 billion? common. are pretty investors saw how uber and life to performed earlier this year and they were projecting a little bit on we work and its growth. some growthking assumptions and are now paring down their expectations. carolyn: to get the perspective, kathleen, your perspective on this shares sale, was it that $47 billion was way out of leak or is it market sentiment and concerns? is it more to do with the perspective? >> i think most investors from
the buy side have experts were looking at these companies. we knew that 47 billion dollars was kind of a ridiculous number. we are seeing the company react to that with the new rumored range. the range at $20 billion at the may be -- if you look at piers, if it were valued close to that company it would be below $20 billion. we look at these companies as the poster child for the disconnect between private company valuations and what people are willing to pay for .hese companies this is going to spill over into
wework to make sure that public investors do not lose money in the wework ipo. people have been worrying about this ipo not only because of the valuation but the corporate governance. how intertwined the chief executive is, and the cofounder adam newman and why he has been selling $700 million worth of his own holding. >> it is a great question. from my point of view they are closely related topics. if you think about the disclosures that came out over the last few weeks since the data was filed, the news it created around everything from the lack of diversity on the board to the excessive control that adam newman is keeping, is it a surprise we are getting investor pushback? this changean liken in the ipo strategy to investors
speaking their minds ahead of the ipo. caroline: was there anything in the perspective that is out of whack with recent ipos? or recent levels of control by the founder? that is certainly not surprising nor is the diversity. >> the diversity took everybody by surprise. most people would consider them progressive and cutting edge and to have no women and very little diversity at all on the board -- now they have remedied it by having a woman post ipo but it feels like too little, too late. the other thing that jumps out is the ceo succession plan or the lack thereof. that adam newman and family will control the ceo process.
that is a critical responsibility of the board and when the board is stripped of that it sends up a lot of flags. there have been a lot of red flag surrounding this ipo but what do you think investors are valuation their evaluation on? square as we go toward an initial listing? >> the thing the companies try to convince the most is the revenue growth. because it is a tech company, they may watch revenue growth as opposed to -- that revenue growth going to 2024. that is pretty far out. adam newman met the analysts yesterday and said they are comfortable they will be able to achieve that. -- bycan maintain that
recommendation from the stock, it will be interesting to see if investors have a different outlook. caroline: your perspective having tracked recent share sales. golden -- goldman sachs was saying you should only care about revenue growth, or at least prioritize that over profitability. is this something investors are getting their heads round? are they willing to take the promise of jam tomorrow if they can see the revenue will drive profitability at some point? >> it is the rare company that can get away with that. we have studied companies in the size of their losses leading up wework is the and second most money-losing ipo in history after uber. the third one is life. -- lyft. these companies do not perform
well. this is not a good one for investors because it is very difficult to understand how to value the company because it takes us so long to figure out the business model. there are a few troubling trends. like theirng things contribution margin has declined from what it has been and the average revenue per unit is fairly flat. we would like to see certain metrics that show us that this business can really scale to the point where we can get confident in the profitability. and we are see that having a hard time with the unit economics, we will have a low valuation. next week we will see cloud flare. that is the a range same as the last evaluation round. the market will get sensitive about these high valuations in
the private market and whether they translate into the public market. caroline: amazing that with the s&p coming off its record highs, you would have thought this was a good time. thank you for joining me. great perspectives from all of you. thiel's data mining company is in talks to raise money from private investors. the discussions could delay its ipo until 2023. writere on this, this says may be considering all the concerns about the latest initial share sales is enough to keep them on the private market. what isseems to be happening at palantir. our sources tell us they are talking to a range of investors to raise a significant round
that would help ease ipo pressure and delay it for two to three years. caroline: you mentioned softbank. do we know what prompted this in any other way? it is a very secretive business. how does the whole business model square with the publicly listed business? >> that's a good question. it has two sides of its operations. it is credited with helping to capture osama bin laden and more recent more controversialy, it's technology has aided the immigration to separate families at the border. they have another side of their business which provides the same data minding a -- data mining and analytics for companies including merck and airbus. the challenge that palantir has had is they are always building
for the long term. this is an ancient company by silicon valley standards. 15 years old. that is two times the length that it normally takes to go public. this company has had a tightknit group of investors who have been patient and waiting for the big payoff. the challenge has been that they have not yet turned an annual profit. caroline: we will see how much longer they have patient investors. let's turn to another key story in the markets today. the trump administration has unveiled a sweeping plan to revamp the housing market. the treasury department would release fannie mae and freddie mac from government control. this week they were put into government conservatorship when the housing market unraveled. this company has decided to go microphone free with its
caroline: sonar unveiled three sonar unveiled three new products, including one that is microphone-free. this after google, apple, and amazon have come under fire for recordings.er >> today marks a new era for sonos. today, sonos goes beyond the home. we have been known as the leading home audio solution, and today we take everything great about sonos and take that to the
backyard and the beach with our new product, move. we are excited to usher in this era. an outdoor speaker is the first out of the home product? >> it was a request from our customers. the two things customers have been asking for is an outdoor speaker and a portable speaker. movies the solution to what customers have been looking for. it builds on our expertise around the home but allows us to expand to these new spaces and learn about bluetooth and battery life. it builds on everything we have learned over the last 17 years. emily: why not headphones? >> there are opportunities in all kinds of audio outside the home and this is what moves us to go beyond. we are announcing two new products for the home that help extend our leadership in the home. the 1 sl, which is like our
sonos one, and the next generation of kinect, called port. those are strengthening and building on the momentum in the home and we think there is a ton of activity outside the home in the right first step is with move as we move to a portable outdoor speaker. sl, withoutonos one a microphone. it goes against the trend. do you think consumers don't want to some but he listening to them in their living room or don't want that capability? want to do is to provide freedom of choice. we have a set of products and think it is important to give customers that choice. we have heard from some customers who are uncomfortable with microphones in their home. we want to make sure we have options for those who do want to use voice assistants. we want to make sure that we have an option for those who are not comfortable with
microphones. that is really what we are delivering with the one sl. emily: any progress on integrating siri? >> we are very open to all of the voice assistants out there today. we would welcome that. we have not seen apple putting siri and other products but we remain open to incorporating that when apple is ready. emily: when cooperating with big tech partners, do you have concerns about them stealing your business? >> we have competed and partnered with the big tech companies for about a decade th around the streaming services and the voice assistants. we have seen a lot of tech companies jump into the space with competitive products. we have grown through the new entrants entering our category. we have invented the space. it is something we have to navigate, but if you look at the period of 16 years of us as a
private company and over a year as a public company, we have been able to navigate some tricky waters at times. oft is the special sauce sonos, building a solution for something that sounds great, provides an easy experience but also freedom of choice. as -- for providing customers that freedom to choose whatever service they want and that has set us apart. emily: this is something that folks have talked about for years, but with apple struggling in the home speaker space. the homepod is not what apple would like it to be. they like to be the best but are not dominating the market. would you ever sell to a company like apple? >> i try to stay focused on that we are launching the best product possible for our customers. that is what we are doing with move and one fl.
we have had a year public now where we have done what we said we would from a topline and bottom-line perspective. we are feeling good from an independent and public company that offers a lot of freedom of choice. emily: apple, amazon, and google are under fire for having humans listening to the conversations that customers are having with their voice assistants. how badly do you think these companies overstepped? that at the end of the day, every tech company has a responsibility to treat its customer's information the right way. this has been an important lesson for some companies in making sure they are treating the information with the respect it deserves. whether you are acquiring it through voice or email or some other way, the duty as a tech company is to make sure that you are using that data the right way and are being transparent
with customers about how you are using the data and who might be accessing it. that is what we have tried to do in our privacy statements. i think the industry can do a better job of that and we are trying to lead the way. therene: the sonos ceo speaking with emily chang. apple could be playing catch-up with other smart phone makers in a big way. we'll discuss, next. @technology.itter, tiktok.s out on @ this is bloomberg. ♪
weapon iscret apparently still the videogame snake. apple is developing in-screen fingerprint technology for its iphone. bloomberg has learned it could be available in next year's phone. apple has had fingerprints cranny -- scanning since 2013 but the new one would be behind the screen. it would also allow a larger display. anothert good to have screen? >> it is good to have both types of biometric technologies. there are lots of pros to face id but also cons. there are pros to touch id and also cons. some of the features are better at different times of day.
if you just wake up and get out of bed it is hard to use face id. with touch id it is easier. if you have the best of both worlds you will have a better chance of getting the phone unlocked securely. caroline: are you trying to insinuate we are unrecognizable first thing in the morning? i can't believe you. >> i think that is what i'm trying to say. [laughter] caroline: they are behind the curve on this one? >> they are a little behind the curve given that some andrade -- android phones from huawei and samsung have been doing this for several months, but apple was the first to take fingerprint scanning at all to mainstream with the 2013 launch of the iphone 5s. i remember that five or six years ago now and it was extremely impressive. when apple was getting rid of touch id, that was a surprise because touch id was working so well. now we will see how this new generation ends up working this
year or the year after. caroline: talking a new generation and competition, an other thaner -- none samsung. tomorrow we get the foldable phone on sale, but only in south korea. >> yes. unsurprisingly i don't have one to test this time around. samsung is launching the new version in the fall. the redesigned model tomorrow and south korea. we are told it will launch around the 27th of this month in the u.s. it is right on the backdrop of the iphone launching. the benefit is they are hiding behind the iphone. if it is working how it is supposed to work, they will miss out on some of those marketing dollars given that all eyes will be on apple. caroline: i remember you bringing us an assessment of how it wasn't quite working as it should have been in the original version. a seller isw big
this going to be? or is it more of a showoff flagship product? >> i was shocked when you said in that previous segment that the nokia phone got 10 million sales. if they can get 10 million of that, and i know it is cheap, i think samsung can get quite a bit. i still don't think it is ready for prime time. caroline: we all love a bit of vintage, mark. it is great to get your expertise on all the latest gadgets. coming up, tough on big tech. from google to facebook and beyond, regulators are taking aim at silicon valley. we'll discuss, next. later, grabbing ai. how these asian powerhouse startup grabs are making it easier to get ai everywhere. this is bloomberg. ♪ devices are like doorways
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caroline: this is "bloomberg technology p a cup -- "bloomberg technology." tuesday, google agreed to pay to settle claims the company violated children's privacy laws. people will go to the u.s. federal trade commission, but that ruling has not gone over smoothly with some u.s. lawmakers area a congressman from rhode island blasted the agreement in a series of tweets saying, just a few weeks after ae ftc gave facebook sweetheart deal, they are giving google the same family and friends treatment. he added that knows ingle executive is being held
accountable and the settlement does nothing but add an incentive for google to break the law in the future. joining us, a partner who specializes in antitrust matters. great to have you with us, maureen. what do you make of the criticism first and foremost ? at the fine is not very much >> the fine is only one part of the remedy in any of these cases -- the facebook case, the google case, and there are extensive provisions that require google what theve and beyond children's privacy act requires. now they are having to screen content and to go ahead and parental notification and consent provisions on that kind of content. is onlythat the fine
one part of the equation. you really have to look at the conduct obligations that are being imposed going ahead. caroline: the u.s. led the charge in the suspect. do you think other geographies might look into the child part of the equation, if there are any other laws being broken or not abided by in quite the way they would like in other parts of the world? >> it is certainly possible. each country might have a different approach to children's privacy. the way congress struck the balance of the children's online privacy protection act is to have parents make the decision if information about their children could be collected through online sites and .ervices in that way, what they are trying to balance is the incentive to create child directed content against the
desire to make sure children are being protected, and that is the way we have struck the balance in the u.s., through congress big decisions. caroline: some lawmakers not always thrilled with policies we heardy the ftc, as from svitolina. he mentioned the sweetheart deal for facebook. that sweetheart deal was a $5 significant, so a chunk of change, even though it pales in comparison of facebook's overall revenue. what do you make of that ruling when it comes to privacy and how it changes the mode of conduct and the way that business practices will on full for the business is going forward? >> the facebook order, the settlement is quite extensive, and it required facebook to create new types of oversight ,nd monitoring and reporting having obligations going up to the board level. it is quite extensive, and of course, a $5 billion fine dwarfs
any other privacy find that has been imposed really anywhere, so i would not call it a sweetheart deal. dwarfs$5 billion fine any other privacy fine that has been imposed. i think it sends a strong message. caroline: do you think tech companies are getting the message that rather than having to respond to regulations, they can in some part get ahead of the curve and ensure that they are abiding by the letter of the of and the general meaning the law before they are hounded by you, for example? >> i think you are right about that. i think they are paying even more attention to some of these issues. a lot of the companies have paid close attention to some of these issues, but i think it has really become a board level issue in a lot of companies because there's not just the impact, you know, from an investigation and a fine, whatever the fine may be or what the obligations going forward are.
also a reputational impact on these companies, so i think they care about that. i also think it highlights the the privacy laws that we have in the u.s. -- the federal trade commission has done a good job with the law that has been given and congress did pass the children's online privacy protection act, but i think it is highlighting the desire to have maybe an additional federal privacy law that would give additional guidance to consumers and enforcers and industry itself. caroline: do you think we are coming upon a time when more laws will be written? can we get bipartisan approach to privacy, size of technology, how it affects competition? we are certainly seeing senate hearings going on, but do you think policy will be enacted? >> i think it's possible we could get a privacy law on a
bipartisan basis. it would have to be on a bipartisan basis to get one past , but i think there is a strong interest in congress in moving ahead on this. it is really coming from a lot of different areas of concern where i think industry wants more guidance. i think regulators want more tools. i think consumers are looking for better protections. of course, we have the impact of a looming california law going into effect at the turn of the year which may then effectively set a federal standard except or the fact that other states are looking at this, too, so we may be faced with the situation of conflicting laws that will actually make it harder to determine what is the right course moving ahead. ftcline: it feels like the
and regulators are spoiling to use their teeth, but do you think they have been behind the curve? i used to report in europe often about how the eu was leading the charge when it came to regulatory perspective over big tech. has the u.s. been behind the curve responding to public outcry? >> i would disagree with that. in europe, they certainly have put regulations in place, but the question is how much they enforce those regulations, whereas in the u.s., we have the federal trade commission act. it is a general act, but the ftc .as used it fairly effectively more thans brought security cases, so it has been active on the enforcement front.
the ftc is looking for additional tools now. certainly the internet has grown, some of these issues have grown along with it. privacy concerns along with it, to denigrateot what has been done so far, while at knowledge and that may be congress does need to step up, has not passed a general privacy law, and consider if they could come to an agreement and enact a bipartisan general privacy law. caroline: going forward with general privacy being the one thing focused on, what about more broad -- have you thought of more broadly about how we will see -- about if we will see the competition aspect building up? i know you are more about antitrust, but is there anything we could see particularly with a change of president, if we might big tech? ct on
>> there is activity now at the department of justice and at the federal trade commission to a hard look atke big tech. the agencies have looked before. when you look back, there are many cases that have been brought. antitrust has never looked at tech issues before. they certainly have. i think that the question, though, is we have our antitrust laws. they have been enforced by the court, and we have a consumer welfare standard in the u.s. the question is -- are these companies in gauging in behavior that is anti-competitive and that ultimately makes consumers were soft? not competitors worse off but consumers worse off. i think it is pretty clear that is the standard they are going to hold any government enforcement action too. i think it is important to
always see, can we improve our tools? are there any competitive behaviors we are missing after the ultimate goal of antitrust law is to ask if consumers are being well served. , unless congress changes the law, will continue to hold to that standard. caroline: great to get your expertise and your experience. let's switch gears to southeast asia because a tech startup is looking to invest $150 million in ai over the next year as it seeks to expand business beyond food delivery and ride-hailing. grabbed is working with microsoft to explore mobile, facial, and image recognition. speaking exclusively of bloomberg's sooner than you think conference, the cofounder explained where that money is coming from. >> i think it is a two-way thing we're thinking about.
when we're thinking about further investment in ai, we're thinking about moving from ai power to ai everywhere. ai is very important technology that we want not just technologists to think of globally and be empowered and skill to use, but we also want strategists to know enough about ai so they can understand how it can be more smartly used to solve different customer problems. into further investing further technologies that are extremely relevant to the kinds of problems we are trying to solve. forexample, mlp translations for the many , probably 50lects different languages and dialects
, and beyond that, as i mentioned, personalization, market-based optimization, and also mapping ngo. >> you have talked about getting inspiration from china for ai. what exactly do you mean? >> i think there are some things could get inspiration from all the global players in the world. what is most important for us is for solvinglogy specific problems. we do not build ai for the sake of ai. i think of what china, the u.s., europe, and different companies across the world have been able to do. they built great platforms that are very localized to the problem they are trying to solve. we have a partnership with microsoft right now that is focused on ai. they have actually helped us a lot on teen of different fronts. one is facial recognition for
safety, improving verification for drivers and passengers. secondly, also on mlp because the localized languages in southeast asia are underserved by existing global translation platforms. targeting local segments of microsoft specific to at this time. up, we willming break down what the tech sector is expecting tomorrow. that's next. this is bloomberg. ♪
jobs will be added with the unemployment rate staying stable, but we want to know just what this means for workers involved in software and beyond. to answer that, let's head to chicago where the president of the north american region for manpower boost joins us for our work shifting segment. great to have you here. 3.7%.0, all looks pretty healthy. deke into the technology sector. how much are they contributing to net gains? >> yes, we are seeing demand for i.t. jobs, tech skills continue to grow across the nation, outpacing supply. interestingly -- you know, traditionally, we talk about the west and east coast. we are seeing that hit the middle of america in cities like dallas, boise, chicago. i am really seeing demand outpaced supply across the country. we anticipate another month of strong gains in the technology sector. caroline: if demand is
outstripping supply, where is that supply coming from? is it about having to upscale -- within your own business? >> the defining problem in the illing our is upsk workers. skills are changing at the pace of tech, so partnering with companies to make sure we are creating the workforce we need is critical for the tech base. our real-time view on tech is we have more than 500,000 jobs today. 50% or so our software engineers, another quarter i.t. project managers. a 1%ve jobs open, but with unemployment rate in tech, it's going to be about upskilling and bringing new workers into the space. : challenger had run bindingeresting data
jobs lost because of trade or trade uncertainties. they say 10,000 job cuts have been made in technology companies largely because of trade difficulties, and that is 10,000 in just august alone. is this something you are hearing, and if so, where from in terms of the tech space? >> our real-time view on the market is not that. we continue to see demand coming in for jobs and we have companies willing to hire. jobs for people 90 are still abundant, and again, there is 1% unemployment, so we have a lot of room in the economy to bring people into this space, so we are not seeing the impact from trade. back in march, april, we saw a little pause. i would call it observation. we saw it pick up about six month later and it has not slowed down since. her line: how long do you think this remains the same? are there any brewing's of slowdown, or do you think this unemployment will remain the
same? >> we know recession will come. the question is when. we are not seeing a slowdown today. if anything, we are seeing employers start to move from talk to action around this upskilling without about. we are partnering with microsoft around gaming jobs, helping upsk upskillinill people to be e testers and really contribute when they did not have the skill to begin with. caroline: interesting. great to get your expertise. thank you for joining us. still ahead, more than just friends. they spoke is breeding -- bringing its dating service to the u.s. -- facebook is bringing its dating service to the u.s., but will it catch on with players like match already on the scene? this is bloomberg. ♪
the social giant officially launched its matchmaking service in the u.s. over a year after it was first announced. the feature has been tested in 19 companies so far and allows users to combine elements of their facebook and instagram accounts. the product also offers a "secret crush" feature. match shares fell sharply on the announcement amid concerns of competition. joining us to discuss is kurt wagner. havetender -- does tinder much to fear? kurt: i think so, if only millions ofbook has users around the world. the one thing facebook has that many of these others don't is the built-in network. the company will not necessarily friends,ple with their because that is weird on the dating front, but they know who friends of friends are. i think those are valuable
connections for the company to know when you're dealing with a are valuableng connections for the company to know when you're dealing with a romantic dating app. caroline: talk to me about how this works. my parents are not exactly on instagram, but i know some people's family are, and the weirdness factor of how separate is the dating profile from the rest of what you are up to? kurt: the dating profile is supposed to be completely separate. differente itself is than what you would have for your normal facebook profile. the idea is you could carve out this little world that is dating specific that does not touch on the rest of your facebook experience. what is interesting is that that profile can pull elements of your instagram profile as well. you can have pictures from instagram. eventually, you will be able to have your instagram story there as well. it is kind of a blending of your facebook life and instagram life in this new separate dating profile and that is what they
are trying to create. caroline: why has it taken so long to come to the u.s. when they have been playing added in 19 countries already? u.s. isimagine the probably the most critical market for them from a pr or business standpoint. not only is it the market where of will have those stories experience, but also there is an element of business. if facebook is to turn this into a moneymaking endeavor, the united states has been their biggest market for advertising and i assume that is ultimately how they will try to make money from this some time down the road. i think they wanted to have some kind of proof of concept that it works in other markets before they brought it to what i would consider the most important one. : every single facebook reporter is rolling their eyes asks to go and
check it out. kurt: i think this will be limited from a use case regardless of the privacy element, but when you look at the kind of stuff facebook has done over the last year, you homewith portal, there in chat device, they are rolling out dating, it does not seem like they are slowing down when it comes to privacy related things. they are pushing into areas that are very intimate, being relationships or in the home. i do think consumers in the u.s. care more about privacy and think about facebook differently on privacy than other parts of the world, so i think it will be part of the pr and the conversation, but clearly, facebook does not seem so concerned a are willing to pull back on launching new stuff altogether that might be considered fringe. caroline: elegantly put across the board. we thank you.
couldy this hour, you call it a match made in heaven. we are so pleased to announce that bloomberg technology anchor emily chang has a new addition to her family. born wednesday night. both mom and baby are doing really well and the entire "bloomberg technology" team sends our support and love to emily and her family as they begin this new chapter. taylor riggs will be hosting the show from san francisco starting next week and it will be a busy week at that. we will be covering apple's big iphone in a tuesday and throughout the week we will be bringing you our medical technology series called "wired "wired." -- be sure to follow our global news network at tictoc on twitter. from new york, from san francisco, this is bloomberg. ♪
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paul: welcome to "daybreak australia." i'm shery ahn of bloomberg world headquarters in new york. sophie: we are counting down to asia's major market opens. ♪ paul: here are the top stories we are covering in this hour -- preparations are under way for the resumption of trade talks. chinese state media say at this time, negotiations must be effective. street a lift