tv Fast Money CNBC September 26, 2012 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT
shacking up with some interesting property. this is "fast money." live from the nasdaq market site in new york city's times square, i'm melissa lee. let's get to michelle caruso-cabrera with the very latest. michelle? >> day two that we saw protests in spain. in fact, just half an hour ago, there were still thousands and thousands of spaniards in neptune square around the parliament protesting. luckily tonight it was not violent. but last night, it definitely was. dozens injured, dozens arrested. the reason they are protesting is because tomorrow spain is going to release a new budget for 2013. it's expected to have cuts to social spending and also hikes in taxes as well. and so they're pretty angry about that. they're very, very tired of it. they've seen their economy falling. they've seen very high rates of unemployment. as high as 50% for young people. we also saw violence in athens greece, today as well.
they were protesting there as well because you could say, same story. another round of cuts of government spending which will mean lower salaries, pensions that could be affected as well. a lot of the details haven't come out, but they kind of know the story already. this is athens. once again, molotov cocktails as we have seen in the past. tear gas being used by the police to disperse the protesters. a lot of back and forth. that lasted just a couple of hours. it was smaller than we've seen in the past. but once again, two capitals in europe erupting in the last two days, today, in fact over austerity measures being imposed as they try to balance their budgets. >> michelle caruso-cabrera, thank you for that update. beakers, i'm going to you. the worse things get, the more likely it will be that spain actually seeks a bailout, right? borrowing costs have to remain high. 32 basis points rose in spanish bond yields. isn't that a good thing at the end of the day? >> yes.
it's hard to say that social unrest is a good thing. but in terms of the markets, this pushes spain a lot closer to that bailout that everybody's been looking for. and you actually have a couple of events over the next couple of days. you have the spanish budget, spain is going to release how much they owe to the banks. and moody's will most likely -- they finish their review of spain's debt for a downgrade. all those things could push spain into a bailout which in my view would be a risk-on event. >> what's interesting is what happened today was a fallout more in some other core. it's coming at a time -- i think the comparisons to grooe s ts t very real because of the threat of secession. the rest of europe is saying, who are we negotiating with?
it's at a place where you're not sure you have conviction within spain to play ball. austerity is difficulty. mario draghi was someone that really has lined up on the side of socialism, less austerity if you want to believe he's going the way of the fed. at some point, he is kind of the man of the people and it's surprising to me that he's not coming to rescue etch verbally again. >> dennis, seems like there's a realization that central banks don't have the answer, that whatever they're doing may not help at the end of the day. and the rallies are being questioned at this point. >> does anybody really think that any central bank anywhere has ever had an answer to anything on a consistent basis? >> we did when we rallied. into q.e. 3, we did. >> not a question. i'll give bernanke credit for what he did in september of '08, he was the adult in the room. but every time we have a new round of q.e., we get less and less result from it. he was right, we need to leave this up to the people in congress, the ball is in their court. and i don't think anybody knows how to shoot.
>> hi, a few things. that region has been threatening secession since, i think, the truman administration. it's nothing necessarily new on the margin. to me, as long as the s&p holds 1,425, can't you see a situation where somebody in europe says something to assuage the fears of the market. with all that said, 1,425 to me is a line in the sand. that was where resistance becomes support. that's what we're up against. you could easily see some headline coming out and the market rallying to 1,325 on the s&p. we're on the precipice. but the market looks past so many things. i think finally the nes news, the fedex news, the intel --
>> nfc and fedex hasn't had -- >> the market has. at a certain point, it catches up. it hasn't yet. >> a lot of names that we feel like we have some exposure on in the mining space traded very well today. if you look at petrobras, miners traded okay. they should have thrown these things out the window. buy signals on the crb, buy signals on the oil. i don't know guys are running away from this. but this is a trade. we've seen it before. people are playing ranges. until this breaks down, this is a trade to buy. >> what did you make of the turnaround that we saw in the coal stocks today? >> that's an interesting point by tim. we also saw news out of china that bauschen steel is going to cut production. i think 1,425 is very interesting that we rebounded
off that today. the first two, three weeks of this rally in september has been about monetary policy. now we have the fiscal policy and the austerity coming in. we've passed that test, as far as i'm concerned. 1,425 holds. it's a successful test and monetary policy again has the upper hand. >> talking about coal for just a second. the coal story has probably a lot to do with natural gas. natural gas has come off its lows very smartly. coal was depressed for a long period of time as natural gas prices were under pressure. let natural gas move higher, coal prices become stronger. i think it's a natural gas story more than just a supply story. >> the question is, could the unrest and uncertainty in europe present a buying opportunity. for more on that, let's bring in kathleen gaffney. great to have you with us. let's be clear, you have a bond portfolio manager. we're talking about europe. at this point, we've had you on before and you've talked about buying spanish corporate debt. what percentage of it is in your
portfolio and do you see opportunities at this point to actually add to that position? >> right now, it is a very modest position. but given what's going on in the markets these days with yields backing up, that does present an opportunity on both the sovereign and corporate sides. there's good value that we haven't seen the market go back out to the wides, that's a big positive. the unrest is difficult to watch. but i think it's headlines and reminds me very much of the secession issues we saw in canada in the mid '90s. you got fiscal discipline and growth coming out of that region. i think we're going to find it again in europe. >> in the notes, you talked about you believed the european union will hold. by buying spanish bonds, the sovereign or the corporate, you're making the bet that you're buying a german bond with a really high yield and those yields be converge? based on that thesis, why
wouldn't you buy greece? they've got really high yields? >> or do you buy that thesis? >> right. or do you buy that? >> greece is a restructuring. if you want to take that risk, it's a different type of story. and you're looking at what the overall potential is. and in greece, you really have the challenge that they're uncompetitive. so their problems are a lot bigger than spain. i think there's less risk in spain and yet very attractive yields. >> kathleen, for the people playing our home game, how do they get involved in this trade if they are so inclined? >> you have to look for bond funds where they have the ability to go anywhere in the world and have that flexibility to buy non-u.s. securities, whether it's sovereign or corporate. >> but drilling down into the spanish bond play, kathleen, what sorts of industries, what sorts of companies are you looking at buying the bonds of? >> well, we're looking at companies that have good cash
flow. mainly thinking about infrastructure companies. so telecoms and utilities. what's interesting to note there is that many of those companies are not dependent on the european economy. they've invested away from europe. that makes those cash flows that much more certain. >> kathleen, good to speak with you. thanks for your time tonight. kathleen gaffney. would you participate in this sort of trade? >> it depends on what your holding period is. to me, people have talked about 7% being the line in the sand. but to me, 6% on spanish yields is unsustainable. i'm not making a call necessarily on whether the european union holds together. but i don't know that the yields need to get better than the bottom of the most recent range. depends on your holding period. but we aren't investing actively in spain. we are investing in some of those underlying companies. there are a number of retail and food distributors in spain that
we bought on weakness today. but these are equity plays. on the fixed income side, you still have pressure. >> if spain raises their hand, interest rates move a percent the right way. i don't know if it's a percent from tim's at some point from 7% to 6% or 9% to 7.5%, 8%. that's the game. >> and i think you can play it on the equity side. if that happens, it's going to be that much better for the spanish and the german economies. you get a backdoor play on it that way. >> so before a while ago, probably a month ago, you said the large position in your portfolio was the dax. is it currently? >> it is not. i took a lot of profits. but it's not necessarily that i don't like it anymore. i would get back into it. it was off about 2% today. maybe tomorrow. we'll see. >> coming up next, will the long-awaited windows 8 be a big bust? dan niles of apple one capital gives us the scoop and tells us where he sees opportunities right now.
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i'm curious, what did you make of those comments? it could just be him protecting intel saying, it's not going to be our fault if things don't turn out well. >> it would be convenient to believe that. the problem is that if you look at what's been coming out of the pc industry, you've had the pc vendors pulling back their arms on how much of an impact they would think that windows 8 would have as well. that's really what's troubling to me. it doesn't really matter what inteel thinks. we don't go out to the store and buy an intel microprocessor. we go out and buy a pc. whether you're talking to a dell or hp or whatever wherever in the world, these companies have gone from being fairly optimistic two or three months ago in terms of windows 8 and now they don't sound as optimistic. that's what's troubling. they're the ones who buy microprocessors from intel. >> what's your general take on
microsoft? you're sounding pretty bearish. >> i am bearish on microsoft. i think the only reason the stock is up is most portfolio managers were expecting them to increase their dividend. and they did. it went from 20 cents to 23 cents a share. and it's got a 3% dividend. you have to deal with the fact that they're reporting earnings soon and guide. and thinking back to what we've heard already, intel had a revenue shortfall of $1 billion in the quarter. dell and hp a month or so ago, numbers went down there as well. you're looking at a stock up in line with the market where the end markets with getting worse and they may be going through one of the toughest product cycles in history. unlike in 2007 when they launched vista which also was notoriously buggy, in 2007,
there was no smartphones, per se. there was no tablet market. it didn't exist. now if a consumer comes into the holidays and they're going, i'm reading these reviews, they're not that good. i don't understand how this operating system works relative to what i already have, i'll go buy a smartphone or tablet from amazon or apple or samsung instead and that will work just fine. that's something microsoft hasn't had to deal with in a very, very long time. >> let's drill down a little bit. what does that mean for the dells and the hewlett-packards of the world? are pcs going the way of the vcr and the eight-track? >> you're on the right track. in the '70s, you had mainframes and ibm was king of the hill. i worked at digital equipment corporation in the '80s where they said having computers the side of a building wasn't a
right idea. digital equipment corporation took over. and then in the 1990s, you had these companies saying, maybe melissa lee wants a pc on her desk. and then you had companies like dell and hewlett-packard and compaq come up. now you're in the point where -- i just went to europe. i brought my tablet and my smartphone and that was good enough. you're seeing a transition to another event dominated by tablets and smartphones. and companies like dell and hp don't have good offerings in that territory. and microsoft is in that same category. pc isn't going away. but its importance and rate of growth is going to diminish in the future relative to smartphones as well as tablets. >> the view on hp, on dell, on microsoft, they're all sort of different threads of the same string in terms of a thesis, dan. is there a short in any of them or is it too soon and to uncertain to do that? >> no.
i've been short several of them. over a period of time. and the bigger problem is it's related to the prior comment. are pcs going away? they're not going away. but thinking about it from a secular standpoint, this move to tablets and smartphones -- smartphones are going to be the only "access" device for the internet that some people will ever own in third world countries. they're not going to own a pc. they're going to own a smartphone because it's mobile, it's small, it's cheaper, et cetera. and so when you look at these names -- i'm not worried about it this quarter or end of the year thing. i'm looking out two to three years and going, is this going to be the transition from ibm to digital and then digital went to compaq and gateway and dell. now it's compaq and getaway and dell going to apple. these trends take multiple years to play out. you're just at the early stages of the tablet growth.
>> dan, quickly, the transition you're talking about almost on the software side, oracle continues to play ball. this is where i'm a lot more excited if i'm calling microsoft certainly the software space, i'd rather play oracle the way they're staying current with their consumer base, but with the consumer software, the business software. they continue to show you that they are delivering in the place where they are cream of the crop. >> you're exactly right. we don't go out as consumers and buy oracle, right? but you need oracle to run the data centers and the back office and the stuff that helps power all the information that we then download to our tablets and smartphones and notebooks. so if you're going to play software, what you want to focus on is those guys that are away from the consumer, the pc consumer, and more on the
enterprise data center side. if i have to pick, yeah, i think oracle's going to behave a lot better. >> dan, why don't you like google? >> well, i think -- a lot of it has to do with the sentiment right now around the stock, which is somehow that everything's great and wonderful and the fact that facebook's not doing well means that google obviously is. if you look at google, they're going through the same issues that facebook is. and on the short term, it's not necessarily going to be that great. in the sense that -- the problem with facebook is people access facebook through their smartphones and tablets, you get less the advertisers -- they pay less because there's a smaller screen on your portable handset. it's the same thing when you're doing search. and google, don't forget, just bought motorola. to the prior comment, saying oracle bought sun and that's been pretty challenging, as we found out in retrospect, let's not forget, google went ahead
and bought motorola. i don't think that's necessarily going to be a great transition either. at least in the short term, you are going through this switch between -- you may search more on your smartphone but google's getting less dollars per search because there's just not as much real estate in your hand as there is on a pc screen. and so with the stock having had a tremendous move, it would concern me. i'm curious to see how they do when they report their quarter and they guide. it may disappoint some people. >> dan, we have to leave it there. good to speak with you as always. dan niles of alpha one capital. we're talking about intel, of course. and intel's trading has been terrible. >> awful. >> one might say, could intel possibly be the next amd? it's sort of in the wrong places at a time when mobile is everything. >> fair question to ask. we talked about -- look, amd was the king of the jungle in the '90s. talking about a stock, they dominated the space. and then as quickly as the landscape changed, they didn't
change with it. i think intel is a wonderful company. but as i like to say, price is truth. and the price action, as you said, has been pretty awful this year. if you look at their quarter back in july, intel did $13.5 billion of revenues. i'd say 70% of that or more was from the pc market. if the pc market is dwindling or at some point potentially going away, you have to be able to move quickly and they haven't. obviously the place to be for chipmakers, the smartphones and tablets aren't there by their own admission. four analyst downgrades in the last couple of weeks has to give you pause. >> i was surprised. i didn't realize that intel did not have a 4g chip yet on the market. that's the big wave here in the united states, at least. the chip will be supplied later on this year or in early 2013. but 4g is happening right now. and that's the issue. >> it will be 5g by the time
they get there. >> probably. >> if you want to play that new chip architecture, arm hold sgs probably the way to play it. that chart looks fantastic. that's where i would put my money. >> mike, you saw some interesting things today. >> the options market sharing the same skepticism we saw almost 12,000 puts trading this thing at about 46 cents. this is somebody who believes the stock could be town around the 19.5 level. seeing bearish sentiment. >> koch more "options action" on friday afternoon. a mining stock continues to dig up golden opportunities. we'll give you the big movers of today's session. that's next.
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time now for "pops & drops." the movers you might have missed in today's session. jabil down 10%. >> oddly enough we're talking about this space. stock's down 10% on huge volume. goes down again tomorrow but that's your capitulation for a trade that sets up nicely. >> drop for copper. >> it's ugly out there. china doesn't look too good. strong dollar today. problems in crude oil. commodity prices generally on the downside. copper just had to go. >> drop for polte. >> a couple of months for this to digest. i'd stay away. >> pop for u.s. steel. >> 18% 25% is the place you stop. but i think this trade holds. it's the bottom of a range. iron ore prices have leveled off. that's the key to the steel producers.
steel production is down. hang in there. >> i like that. working it off. big pop for best buy, up 4%. mike khouw? >> credit suisse may be indicating that they're coming close to working out a financing deal for the co-founder who made that lbo proposal a while back. a lot of the p/e firms are fairly noncommittal. it involves a lot of debt for a deal this size. >> a drop here for sleeping on the job, a gat burglar caught napping on the floor of the home he was burglarizing. police say he entered the home before 5:00 a.m. and collected valuables before falling asleep on the kitchen floor. maybe he has a disorder or a problem. >> narcolepsy. >> you never know. pop for barnes & noble. pop 6%, guy.
>> you've been rewarded to be short this stock the last few years. it's something to do with their nook -- >> two new nooks. >> are you still sitting around in barnes & noble reading? >> that's why point. put it out there again. we invite the barnes & noble's hishg hierarchy to come on the show. charge them to get in. that's your business model. i'll go long the stock if you do it. >> pop for verifone. >> continues to go lower. i would not buy this name at all. >> drop for deutsche bank, down 4%. >> this is the eu trade here. these guys are obviously on the front lines. stock down 8% over the last couple of days. resting on the 200. i don't think you stay there.
we stay short. >> china, strong dollar. there is a lot of crude oil being found out there in fracking. >> and a pop for dean foods, up 5%. >> there is a story that they have been hired at evercorp as an adviser, looking to sell their morningstar milk products business. that represents 20% of their 2011 revenues. i have to give kudos to karen on this one. in 2010 when it looked they were going to violate their debt covenant, she called it right. but i don't think it's an opportunity at 16.5. >> two instances of kudos for karen. she deserves it. got a pop for dancing robots. robots are busting a move in china. they were the life of the party at this international fair. the robots are powered by tiny motor that is allow them to dance in sync with the music. >> do you find any of that troubling? >> what's worse for me is having
to hear a rogato soundtrack. >> i think the robot dances better than you. >> styx, one of those overrated bands of the '80s. we'll get the real scoop on china. and he'll break down his plans to strike a deal in the shale business. you don't want to miss it. stick around. dumb luck? or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to us. massmutual. we'll help you get there. silverado!
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♪ i'm so excited and i just can't hide it ♪ ♪ i'm about to lose control and i think i like it ♪ ♪ gold losing muster pausing around $1,750 an ounce. citigroup saying it's time to be cautious inand a pull back to $1,665 is in the cards. where do you stand, dennis? >> i've been bullish on gold for a long time. i'm not a gold bug. i think everybody needs to own a little bit of gold. it's moved from the lower left to the upper right. the central banks are easing aggressively. and in an environment like that, gold as a currency wants to go
higher. can it have a correction? of course. should it have a correction? it needs one. did it have one today? yes. it took about $18 to $20 out of it at one time. came back late in the day. i was impressed. have i changed my position on gold? no, still bullish. we've heard a lot about shale gas in the united states. but what about china? wilbur ross is looking to get a piece of the action in china. some are calling it the wild west of investing over there, through his company, ross has a 14.5% stake, looking to participate in the first auction open to foreign investors. mr. ross has recently returned from a trip to asia, actually yesterday. he joins us here on set. always great to see you. >> good to be back. >> you dent look jet llagged at all. >> it's deceptive. >> so much possibility is being talked about. beijing is on board establishing targets of the number of metric
feet they want to have produced in the country. at the same time, there are key differences between what is going on here in the marcellus shale and in other places in terms of the geology. a lot of the gas is found in sichuan, which is obviously a seismic risk. >> that's a whole lot of questions. china believes it has half as much shale gas as we do. 36 trillion versus 24 trillion. but it's very early days. they've only drilled 63 wells. and of those, only three were with the horizontal drilling and fracturing technologies. so it really is wild west in the sense of being totally unexplored. the formations are different. the ones in the states are late
paleozoic era. what that means is it's older. and therefore there's been more tectonic shifting of the rock formations themselves. so there's a good chance that as opposed to the nice, big, continuous reservoir that is we have here, you may have a series of smaller ones there. so that could be a problem because it's a lot harder to deal with the smaller quantity. second, they appear to be probably 1,000 feet buried deeper than they are here. that raises the cost of drilling because here it's generally between 2,000 and 3,000 feet. so that's an issue. on the other hand, labor is cheaper there. the permitting and all that is probably going to be a lot less expensive than it is here. a structural issue, though, in sichuan and elsewhere, fracking uses a tremendous amount of water.
and water is in somewhat short supply. in fact, the joke is, if everybody in china took a shower every day, there would be no water left for the rest of the world. there seems to be some danger of that happening anytime soon. but it is an issue. so one of the problems is going to be, how do you get the water to and from the sites. >> so in terms of actually finding a chinese partner with exco to participate in this first foreign option, how speculative is this, given all the risks that you outline? if you take a look at the cost to create and to operate a well here in the u.s., it's generally $5 million to $6 million, the going rate. >> right. >> in terms of order of magnitude and cost, how much more do you think it could be in china? you must have run the numbers. >> it's probably a couple of million dollars more. obviously, you can't overgeneralize. but we think the key to high drilling success -- and exco has
had very good success. of the last 335 wells they drilled, 332, not only were productive but were commercially productive. so i don't know that that average can be reproduced in china. >> the number you talked about early, the lack of use of horizontal drilling was shocking to me. they are really just on the beginning edge of learning how to take a shaft down and make it turn and move into opposite directions? >> you make it sound simple. >> it's very difficult. >> not quite so difficultly. they are at the early days of it. that's why i feel it makes logical sense for the people over there to joint venture with folks here who have drilled a lot of wells. exco has drilled 8,000 wells in recent years. >> mr. ross, you seem to be one of the first foreign players trying to form one of these. how aggressive is the competition here? again, it seems as if the rapid essentially viability of shale
in this country has made this a place where guys feel like they can come right in. you're competing around the world even though we know this is the best technology here. labor is cheaper but isn't the technology much more important? >> oh, sure it is. and that's why i was very well welcomed in china because they recognize it. i was a little bit surprised that there wasn't more evidence of a big u.s. presence over there because the bidding is october 26th, which is not very long away to get in there and noise seismize -- analyze seism data and doing things of that sort. shale gas industry is in a bit of disarray here. there are probably lots of reasons why. but i'm a china fan and have been for a long time. and i'm out there a lot. so it's different. >> so speaking of china, then, you just came back. a lot of things we fret about
here in the markets is a collapse of the chinese economy, whether they grow at 4%, which would be a disaster for the chinese. you just came back from there. how is the economy, boots on the ground? >> i think it's going to grow somewhere between 6% and 7%. the biggest fear i had had was that they maybe have been overdoing the housing. remember, the housing had a tremendous boom, government, i think, quite rightly said, we have to ramp this down. and they did. they tightened on awful lot of screws. they went a little far. and now they've started to loosen up. so in the most recently reported month, housing prices actually rose slightly and total value rose slightly. so it feels like maybe that worry has kind of bottomed out. >> your bigger concern is japan, these brewing tensions. we've already heard about toyota and nissan curtailing production in plants in china. they say there's a slowdown in also the tensions. what's your take on that?
>> what surprised me so much is the street people, the ordinary people are really wound up over this controversy with japan over the islands. and i know they are in japan as well. i chaired the japan society, you may know. so what worries me is if you have two countries where it's not just the governments but the populations are wound up, how do you climb back down? how do you make this have an easy solution? and so that worries me because that's the last thing we need is another trouble spot in the world. >> wilbur, great to have you with us. thanks for coming by. always love to have you here on set. guy, the question i pose to you, unless you're a man like wilbur ross who can go over there and have a joint venture with a chinese company, it's different to take part of this shale gas boom that would be happening in china. is this like the gold mining boom here in the u.s. where if you sold the picks and the shovels, you could have made a pretty penny too?
>> he brought up the water aspect -- there are interesting ways to play it -- companies like a pent air in the diversified water business, that's an interesting stock. it's sold off and given opportunity. if you start connecting the dot, there are companies that make sense with not nearly as much risk. >> and in terms of a company like an lng where the hope is to liquefy the gas and ship it elsewhere, china's boom comes to fruition, does that limit the potential of a company like an lng? >> i think we're just getting started with the idea of natural gas. i think lng has a long period of time even if china moves into that area. i would not denigrate lng because of the chinese circumstances at all. several companies have warned but is there reason to be worried about the upcoming earnings season? paul hickey is going to be here to give you the real deal on the numbers. [ male announcer ] when this hotel added aflac
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what does it mean for earnings season and for the markets? let's bring in paul hickey, the co-founder of bespoke investment group. the bears would say this sounds terrible. >> it does sound terrible. but when you think about it, we've been seeing warnings every day from companies. when you look historically, it's actually somewhat in the middle of the range. i'm not going to say it's good or bad. but the forward performance of the market has been pretty good following these types of high negative warnings. expectations get lowered. we're seeing that in earnings revisions as well, which have been negative. analysts have been lowering forecasts for companies more often than they've been raising forecasts for companies since may. so sentiment is not too robust right here. >> it's sort of factored in at this point. you actually take a look at the markets and also if you overlay the presidential election cycle, we're actually setting up pretty decently. >> yeah. it's interesting. the market this year has
followed the typical presidential election year pattern to a "t." coming out of labor day, we were a little bit more cautious on the market. going through about columbus day. it sets up perfectly with this pre-warning season where companies lower guidance. once the reports finally do start, we'll have -- we'll be able to improve and the market -- >> as the graphic puts up, you're talking about absolute numbers of companies. but the magnitude of these company, me desk, nfs, caterpillar, these are huge companies -- >> yeah. and you're raising an excellent point. >> of course i am. >> but what those companies have in common is that they have dollar -- their international exposure. analysts and companies that have domestic exposure are going to do better this earnings season than their international counterparts. >> paul, thanks for coming by. coming up next, the curtain will be lifted momentarily. we'll reveal the trade of the
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draft, what are you picking? >> brian -- can i call you brian? facebook is going to stay on the board. i'm going to ft. worth, texas, it's radio shack. >> that was guy choosing radio shack as his top pick earlier this year. as you know, the tostock is dow more than 50% since he picked it. but the ceo is saying he will step down. >> i think it was $5.50 when i -- >> grim death. >> but i was the last -- not that i expect you to know this. but 1979, the new york giants with their seventh pick -- >> doug coater? >> wrong. took phil sims. and the fans in new york booed them vociferously. give ate little bit of time. i said i thought it was going to zero or somebody's going to buy them. it's gotten halfway to zero and
i still think somebody's going to buy them. it's been grim death, thank you. but there's a chance some private equity folks come in -- >> you're hopeful. not too down. i thought you would be down on the stock. >> i'm hanging in. >> well, i thought you -- >> whoa, whoa, you got me a gift. >> we decided to get guy a gift to make him feel better about radio shack. >> look at this -- that's what i'm talking about. it's a boom box. >> it's a radio from radio shack. >> there you go. >> is there an eight-track in there? >> that's fantastic. >> do you feel better? >> what do you think about playing some styx on there? >> may be the only thing that that radio shack has sold in a long time. >> love the shack. thank you for the gift, though. >> you have to bring one for everybody, mel. >> it was his lousy pick.
so he got the radio. the moment you've been waiting for, the trade of the day here, tim? >> at a time when people are very concerned about commodity demand around the world, you have to also look at where people have priced in commodity prices. theck trades in canada, trades here. this is your emerging market exposure. this is a company that's integrated. net coal, zinc, copper and gold. not necessarily tied to the steel market. they certainly have room for the kind of reflation trade. but at the end of the day, 4.5 times 2013 ebitda, prices in coal prices that have been set for the fourth quarter at $170. again, they've been pushing around spot prices in iron ore and coke and coal -- >> running out of time. >> tck. >> we'll be right back. stay towned.
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♪ oh, hey alex. just picking up some, brochures, posters copies of my acceptance speech. great! it's always good to have a backup plan, in case i get hit by a meteor. wow, your hair looks great. didn't realize they did photoshop here. hey, good call on those mugs. can't let 'em see what you're drinking. you know, i'm glad we're both running a nice, clean race. no need to get nasty. here's your "honk if you had an affair with taylor" yard sign. looks good. [ male announcer ] fedex office. now save 50% on banners. final trade time. mike khouw. >> tim? >> tck. >> pent air. >> gold. but i was going to buy that one. >> you can steal. >> i will stick with the commodities theme and buy silver.
love the price action today. >> i'm melissa lee. thanks for watching. see you tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. for "squawk on the street." "mad money" with jim cramer starts right now. i'm jim cramer. and welcome to my world. you need to get in the game. going out of business and he's nuts! they're nuts! they know nothing! i always like to say there's a bull market somewhere. and i promise to find it -- "mad money," you can't afford to miss it. hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money," welcome to cramerica. other people want to make friends, i'm just trying to make you a little money. my job is not just to entertain but to teach and educate. so call me at 1-800-743-cnbc. if you come out here to talk about stocks every night, then you better believe you're going to make some whoppers, some mistakes in a visible and highly public way. .