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tv   Mad Money  CNBC  July 17, 2013 11:00pm-12:01am EDT

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> my mission is simple. to make you money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere and i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now. hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money." welcome to cramerica. other people want to make friends. just trying to save you a little money. my job is not just to entertain you, but to educate and teach you, so call me at 1-800-743-cnbc. sometimes, sometimes, even a grizzled veteran like me can get
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dazzled in this business. today, i was mesmerized listening to john paulson as my partner chatted with him in new york. and on a day when the averages led by housing related names inched higher, the dow up 19 points, nasdaq advancing .32 percent, this is a perfect time to expound on the interview because everything that's happened now and that could happen in the future into perspective and i think it can make us a lot of money. first a little perspective, paulson's been in the money management business for about ten years. you probably never heard of him until the housing hey day. he shorted everything subprime housing. it made billions upon billions of dollars. you may have heard about him of
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late because of a fund that represents 2% of the gold fund. even you professionals out there, i know jealousy -- and many are jealous of this mild mannered man because of his amazing success when others faltered. now that you know how he made it big, if you were in the room when carl posed his questions, you could hear a hush because he's the most bullish man on earth. not only was his first idea, that everyone who is renting should buy a home, but his second best idea, buy a second home. paulson's idea, say if you want to make a leverage bet, buy hard hit areas of the country. the same you bet against if you hated subprime lending in colorado, florida and nevada. guess what we heard today? paulson, aha, you might say, he's already made enough money, you're late to the party. perhaps the most important takeaway is the opposite.
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he believes we're in the early innings. a segment of the mortgage bonds he once hated. now that housing is appreciating at a 12% clip, these once horrendously performing bonds are performing and springing back to life. that's what he owns. it's because we're building very few homes, half as many as we may need and only one-third as many as the peak. the asset class has much higher to go. what if you can't, or you want to play with stocks? it's not jim cramer's mad homes. the only stock this came up was rlgy. that's because the largest realtor in the country by far, the firm that took private at a
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disadvantageous time is ringing the register on its last 25 million shares. how about paulson? he's now the largest -- worth 9.9% of the company and he's not going anywhere. he's not selling stock, his interest. we had the ceo on. sure, i prefer lower. everybody prefers everything lower, but i like paulson's conviction. and conviction is really important here, because paulson's going way against the grain with this housing call. while it's not as against the grain as shorting subprime mortgages, it's against the theory that housing has peaked. as well as the possible appreciation of the home once you buy it. those three are going with the home buyer, not against him and paulson doesn't see that things. in other words, unlike virtually the entire universe i deal with,
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with the exceptions perhaps of the home builders themselves, paulson does not think the near term negatives can -- that really matters because every bank that has reported has expressed a thought about whether the cliff. housing was going to fall off the cliff last time or really kind of fall off everest and he knew much more than the bullish banks at that moment, so what else? let's talk about those banks. we heard today that bank of america is really roaring back. it's deeply involved in the fabric of housing. you could say that bank of america bought the junk paulson assured. now, bac owns homes, mortgage bonds and the like. paulson makes you feel that while short-term caution can be
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warranted, long term bullishness is persistent. same with wells fargo. which is still going up for a remarkable quarter which happens to be, yes, wells fargo is a charitable trust large position. you know what else is really in the paulson sweet spot of mortgage lending? i get puzzled over this, but how about the largest insurer of mortgages in the country? we spoke to the ceo in june. sure, it's been hurt by a short-term slowdown. however, think of the long-term, please. this country, which is among the best specs in 2013, is ensuring the stuff paulson thinks is coming back the life because of the rise in housing prices. i'm throwing in gnw. people continue to write negative articles about them. fha is pulling out.
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they don't want to offer mortgage insurance. that's given them the run to joint. how about the home builders? i don't know if they're as good at zoning. the others have too much going. i don't want to bet against the man and he's got the other side of the trade going. here's the bottom line. paulson, the man who is a big short on housing, has got the big long on housing and you should go with him, not against him in this against the current green that could still be a terrific multiyear win. benjamin in rhode island. >> yeah, hi. does amazon really warrant a $140 billion market cap when it has negative earnings and it's been in the game for almost 20 years? it's not a start-up anymore. >> here's the problem with that.
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i could have used that logic when it was at 80, 180, 280. here we are, 308. everyone has hit me with this short for a long time. i have said that it's a great american company who i have said it's a great american company, but many people have told me well, you've got to short this great american company and that has never intrigued me and i'm not going there. i know many people would say it's overvalued, get out. i'm just not going to do that. i don't feel it's right. ken in south carolina. ken? >> boo-yah, dr. cramer. >> boo-yah. >> i'm a long time owner of csx. i know the earnings have come out. should i buy more? >> i like the quarter. i think michael ward told a good story. people think no one is using coal. it's a good stock, a good railroad man. i'm a buyer of the name. california and stanley. >> i had groupon back in
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february, i bought it around $6. then the ceo got fired and then it dropped and then the shares dropped and now, it's back up to close to $9 a share. is it too late to buy? >> you know what? this has been a big percentage gain. ted leonsis, the co-ceo is terrific. i still find the company challenged. when they came in and booted mason, that was the trade. i'm not going to recommend investment, but now it's got good management. when paulson speaks, we got to listen. stop being so jealous of him. it's just one fund that's not so good. the guy is great. he's charitable. you know, but the most important thing, i would go with him and against the grain. housing is still a terrific investable theme. we'll be right back. >> coming up, big idea or bad idea. wall street's heavy hitters were
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all in the dugout at "delivering alpha" today and they named names from pepsi to caterpillar. cramer's behind the plate making his call. next. and later, what the heck? declining revenue. a disappointing outlook, but yahoo! screams higher anyway. what's behind the move? and can the new ceo marissa mayer keep up the climb? plus, tower of terror? shares of cell site operator american tower got a scare today when a wall street research firm called for a 40% decline in the stock. tonight, cramer calls up the ceo to decide which direction this company could be headed. all coming up on "mad money."
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when you get the sheer firepower we had at today's delivering alpha conference, you have to sit back and digest what you've heard. exploding with ideas, first, there were multiple speakers. i have to tell you that when i look at investors whom you can emulate, investors who we have studied here, i know that if you just bought what another legendary activist investor bought, you have made a ton of
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money. that's why this interview was so electric today. about the only activist that you can make the statement. that's why i was mesmerized when he said pepsico could trade to $128. the fast growing component of the old kraft, both of which peltz has stakes in. i believe in the ceo, and when you have a stock hitting all time highs, you've got to applaud what she's done. frankly, i am from the ain't broke don't fix it school of business. okay? that's the mantra for me and that is pep to a tee. yesterday, i had a premonition. so i suggested that if any company should buy mondelez, it's the underperforming coca-cola, this was said more out of frustration and pique with coca-cola than an actual strategic purchase and i think
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that -- perhaps there could be a huge wealth created. i don't know. more importantly, even if the perspective, provided that nooyi runs it, what if we step back. say i believe you can follow peltz. i think he's right, but for a different reason. i like the snack and drink combo. it's working. mondelez sounds like it's suffering from under earnings disease. he thinks the company's working. a spokesperson said they're happy with the current structure, so i don't care if it does if it splits up, peltz thinks it can go higher.
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peltz is buying dupont, part of our invest in america series, told a terrific story about using science to help feed the world, science to create better seeds, science to create better foods and better safety materials. i agree. hence why dupont is in my charitable trust, other than to say the word paint. he was crooked, coy. but he repeated, paint. here's what you need to know about paint. particularly the whitener. they don't fit the new dupont. what he wanted to do was break this company up into a fast growing science and feed the world enterprise then a second commodity business that has been holding this back. i think coleman will eventually come around to peltz plan, but should do it now.
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what i said about peltz, if you buy a stock he has amassed a position in, you still make very good money if you buy it on a day when everybody learns about it like today. how about leon cooperman? what did he like? well, i'm not going to give you all ten. some were too small, some too hard to understand. he doesn't think this year will be as robust as last year, but he's still got some great opportunities including selling bonds, not too late to do that, and buying among ten. express scripts, qualcomm and often lightning round picked. the most successful, a top flight pharmacy benefit manager. stretch it out, seems cheap. qualcomm is considered a toll taker from everyone that uses
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its intellectual property. that's pretty much everybody. cooperman is too strong to make me think this couldn't be winner only. we have filed forever and watched ceos. if it goes higher then the main people call coops says it can double and if it all goes down, it goes to zero. that are better than eog resources. a couple others spoke. buy japanese autos. my trust has an etf of japanese stocks. i think that's a better way to play it. if the trust is playing the revival of japan, so i don't want you to be clustered in that
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one sector. may i suggest the wisdom tree trust for japan. gets rid of the currency, which is the way my charitable trust is diversified. jim chenos says he's betting against caterpillar at the end of the supercycle. i don't care to short this company. it's a good one that has made some mistakes, some errors and i'm not a big fan of commodities. look, there's still mining and there's still going to be machines that mine. the fact is, this is a hedge fund idea, and frankly, nothing more. i see no reason to take action. the stock just had a 10% move and that's fine with me. but i do think there are much better industrials out there to buy including any involved in aerospace, which has its own multiyear supercycles, so here's the bottom line. heard a lot of good ideas, but the three that make me most
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comfortable, pepsis, mondelez and dupont. consider these stocks as terrific places to go when we get our next tapering swoon. that can't be too far away, can it? >> coming up. what the heck? declining revenue, a disappointing outlook, but yahoo! screams high any way. what's behind the move? and can marissa mayer keep up the climb? don't miss cramer's take. (announcer) scottrade knows our clients trade
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how could yahoo! miss numbers so big and still have the stock go much higher? because ceo marissa mayer has done an amazing job in one year's work, she inherited a company with terrible morale, company was way off course, losing market share to google, facebook. she had two things going for her. the balance sheet. brimming, yes, brimming with cash. she had a brain. a brain filled with ideas and how to execute them. so, the company had to guide down last night, what's so
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amazing is what she can do, how did this stock rally closing in a new high of $29.66? threefold answer. first, she turned around declining. once you've been in the game for a while, it's almost irreversible. she's been able to pull it off due to terrific innovations. what is seen from her predecessor company, google. for ages, yahoo! was a revolving door. mayer brought down the rate by a remarkable 59% and 12% of the people that she hired are called boomerangs. ex-employees who went back in because they're hearing good things about what she's doing. the no right to not work rules. many had to show up to keep their job. there are a lot of males at this company 366 days ago. if you think facebook didn't have a good mobile strategy a
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year ago, yahoo! barely had any at all. the company hardly had any engineers associated with mobile. dozens was the word she used. now, there are hundreds. mayer did all of this without dinging the balance sheet at all. the way is shrinking, now share account from 1.4. want more monetized, more fire power, including the terrific stake in -- 24%. the largest in china. could be coming public. there are a lot of catcallers about this quarter. i know it's troubling to hear that search revenues are challenged. there's a new way to buy ads. it's called programmatic buying. that means they can take advantage of all the inventory around the web and find the cheapest sites to reach the most people. that's deadly for the old model
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where internet companies were designed to create ad campaigns. it's something mayer will have to beat in order to keep this stock on a role. in a world where 250,000 blogs are started each day, where content is no longer king, barely even pawn. advertisers are moving to this model. you carpet bomb the web the machines. while you may hit some places you don't need, you get the job done a lot less cost and profit for those with the content like yahoo!. she'll also be able to get the nerve to go, too, and find ways, perhaps through video, through all the new products. it's easy to say what's good for yahoo! is good for facebook, but the real take away here is that mayer is a winner and i think she's going to keep winning, and from the looks of today's trading, the market agrees with
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me. bob in new york. bob. >> hi, jim, boo-yah from queens. sizzling queens, new york. >> i enjoyed the all-star game. i was from queens and my colleague, david faber is from queens. >> late april, i bought linkedin, only to see it lose 20% of its valuation. it has recovered. do you think they're a candidate for m and a? >> they won't be bought. i thought that last quarter was an investment quarter. i was skeptical, but i think it's really terrific. i think that linkedin, you buy it on fundamentals. they're just fine. do you yahoo!? maybe you should. numbers disappointed but the stock soars.
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stay with cramer.
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it is time for the lightning round. are you ready? let's start with diane in new york. diane? >> hi, jim. i'd like to say a nice boo-yah to you and i want to know what your opinion is on exxon mobil. >> exxon is fine. typically my analysis is it's fine. there's a good start. as good i don't think as eog. if you want to take more risk, or occidental. joseph in florida. >> boo-yah from the gator nation, mr. cramer. >> how are are you? >> doing great.
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what are you thoughts on walter energy? >> i felt btter after listening to michael ward talk about csx today, that's the big coal shipper. i don't want to pull the trigger, but i think it's way to too late to sell. patrick in arizona. >> with the recent dip i was wondering if we could get an opinion on ibm and the wall in or has your opinion changed? >> okay, you know, my problem here is that i have not listed ibms call. i've been violating all my own rules when other people get the call. i will have a better look tomorrow. lois in florida. >> boo-yah, jim. i'm the most faithful follower and when you mention your charitable trust was getting rid
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of china exposure, i unloaded my chart industries at 95. since then, it's gone up. should i buy back in at a down tick? >> it's had a miraculous run, lois. i am concerned about china exposure. i don't think you need to buy it back. if it comes in, we can talk about it and pull the trigger. cole in iowa. cole? >> boo-yah, cramer. big boo-yah from iowa. >> good to have you. >> i'm 17, i've been in the market since i was 12. >> i'm cole's dad. what can you tell us about lion's gate? >> i thought it was going to be a really big stock, then i felt it was out of gas and i was wrong. this is a company that once i -- this is hunger games, good tv entertainment. just a good stock like discovery and it's probably going to remain a good stock for a long time because they're great, creative and have the right programming. joyce in texas.
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>> you made some money for me, but i've got a question on johnson & johnson. i got over $250,000 that i can buy stock with. one thing i don't understand and i want you to explain it to me, when they came out with the earnings, their earnings was helped by the selling and the stock isn't moving much. and i want you to clarify it for me. >> sure. first of all, it's the second best performing stock in the dow jones. second, this stock has been up in almost a straight line since he took over last year. they did grow pharmaceuticals, 11%. they have the best balance sheet of any drug company and fifth, this company has within its four walls, perhaps the greatest undervalued asset, the consumer products business. so i think he's got the stock and can go to where it can go over $100. i'm hoping it comes in so i can
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buy, buy, buy, buy, over and over again. j&j is for me. andrew in south carolina. >> cramerica, how you doing? >> all right. how about you? >> i need some advice. i got a class action lawsuit, black yoga pants more sheer than desired, has a hold, price target of 54. what are you thoughts on lulu? >> i like the ceo. that's why i like lulu and she's departing, so i don't have that much of a view about lulu now. sometimes, the ceo manages a great deal is terrific. one more. tom in illinois. tom? >> hey, jim. boo-yah from illinois. i'm calling about xerox. do you think their recent acquisitions will help? >> i kind of think yes. i bumped into a woman, just talking to her, i was thinking that's had a big run. looking pretty good. i got to do more work. let's leave it like that.
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i will do a further analysis of xerox. i think it is doing too well for me not to take a hard look at it. and that, ladies and gentlemen, is the conclusion of the lightning round. >> coming up, tower of terror? shares of cell site operator american tower got a scare today when a wall street research firm called for a 40% decline in the stock. tonight, cramer calls up the ceo to decide which direction this company could be headed. all coming up on "mad money." but he's not. ♪ he's an architect with two kids and a mortgage. luckily, he found someone who gave him a fresh perspective on his portfolio. and with some planning and effort, hopefully bob can retire at a more appropriate age. it's not rocket science.
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fifteen minutes could save you...well, you know. time to zoom in on a stock that just became very controversial overnight. american tower, amt. number one owner and operator of wireless towers. company's now under attack from muddy waters, not the blues musician, but the short-selling research firm of the same name that just released what i regard
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as an inflammatory buy extremely negative report saying that american tower has given a 44% return with reinvested dividends and 111% gain since september of 2009. i think it's worth giving management a chance to tell their side of the story. muddy waters has had success in the past. welcome back. >> thank you, jim. glad to be here. >> this is an odd new world. it's become kind of a regular thing, whether it be herbalife with a hedge fund manager who hates it, or linn energy, where there's another group of guys just slamming every day. here's a piece of research that says you're dramatically overvalued and that there is a well let's just say -- acquisitions overseas and what they're really worth.
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>> well, jim, normally, we wouldn't even respond to such an ill informed report, but there are some allegations in there we just don't believe we can let stand. our international business we're very excited about, have been for years. we've been doing this now outside the u.s. for 12 years. beginning in mexico, then on to brazil, et cetera. those early latin american acquisitions and investments are our highest returning assets in the company right now, and we feel we can and are replicating that kind of performance in a number of countries around the world today. so really unfounded, i think, the analysis in the report and our track record actually speaks for itself on this. >> well, i think that just because again i want to give their side, then get your side. there's a page called material misstatement page one, which
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says amt claims to have attained $585 million in brazil, but financial statements require say this was a $300 million purchase. amt overpaid for these assets. do you know anything about this? >> we know exactly the facts are. we are filing today with the sec, to lay out all the facts, and this is a simple story. the $585 million acquisition was funded from two sources in brazil, of our cash. one was intercompany debt which was registered to the central bank of brazil and one's a portion of our account and another part of the deal was financed and funded with equity, internal american tower cash equity that was in a different part of the brazilian central bank record.
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this report writer didn't find or know about the equity contribution. adding those pieces together gets you the full amount and we have bank records that will provide the s.e.c. and anyone that would like to see them and other documentation that shows that the full amount of all the funds was indeed conveyed to the seller and we have confirmation. >> is he right? did they call you ahead of time and show you this data? >> no, we've never had any direct communications with muddy waters personnel. >> they didn't show you. just put it out and it's wrong? >> it's completely wrong and the allegation of fraud is really concerning to us and it's wildly and completely inaccurate
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and easily provable, and we provided that proof, both to the public markets today and to the s.e.c. two. here, they ran a picture of the material misstatement number two. here, they ran a picture of the firm they used to value the acquisition. i've learned not to judge a book by its cover, but the picture they have of this accounting firm does not look like somebody that jeffrey tate would be using. it's not our accounting firm, and i can tell you with full assurance that we have two u.s.-based accounting firms, whose brazilian operations participated in this acquisition and audited not only this deal, but a full set of financial statements. deloitte is out auditor of record.
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we used another of the big four firms to do the purchase accounting in brazil. their work was checked as well in brazil and we feel we got the best in the industry and the best in the world working with us on a professional basis. >> i don't think that's deloitte's building. how about this one? ceo's consistent sales he receives, just a lack of faith in sustainability of the business. ironically, this is a view we share with him. >> that's again wildly inaccurate. sort of a misperception of narrow pieces of information about my stock position. i've got two-thirds or more of my net worth in amt stock. proud to have it there. as many ceos do, just the sort of standard selling plan as new options come in each year. sort of equalize that with some exercises and of course, those options that you choose to
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exercise in any given year do convert to cash in large part, so it's just a misrepresentation of the way the stock plan works, and my participation, which has been extensive over the years and continues to be so. >> i understand those. i've had similar programs myself. you have to pay your taxes and i understand it. net worth is what matters and how much and the percentage and i think you have been very forthcoming. thank you for coming on "mad money." >> always glad to do it, jim, and to be with you. thank you. >> if there's an 8k filed with the government that says this is wrong, he gets in trouble if he writes an 8k that's wrong, and he isn't going to do that. the accountants that he mentioned are real accountants. you've got to draw your own conclusion. i found that compelling, but you do the work.
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you look at the ak, the research. then you decide. back after the break. >> coming up, talent show. corn fairy connects business with its most valuable resource. leadership. but can this corporate recruiter turn the list of clients in into cash? cramer's got the interview with its ceo. so... [ gasps ]
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we're always trying to get a
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deeper read on the employment situation in this country, through payroll processors or staffing companies and in keeping with the two cities nature of our economy, tonight, we're checking in with a company with a fabulous read on the job market for the 1% crowd. we're talking about corn fairy international, helping many of the world's companies. and if korn/ferry business is good, the stock is 25% year to date, hit a new high today. when it comes to recruiting people for high level positions, it's the exact opposite for most of the country, even with the job market improving. let's check in with gary, the ceo of korn/ferry international. thank you so much for coming on.
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because your website features cnbc and a clip with my friend michelle caruso-cabrera, you said there's so much indecision, there's so much worry and fretting, business can't get it going. we had the election nine months ago and it's still not happening. >> it's like 1:30 in the afternoon after a hangover. you don't have the conspicuous consumer. everybody's de-levering, so ceos are slow to hire. they're trying to innovate, then hire. >> when i look at your stock price and i go through the conference call, what is clear to me is the trend is getting better. particularly, i like the fact it seemed like the nature of financial services hiring.
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one of the best is starting to get better. >> it has, but it's slow. this thing is a nike swoosh. it's going to be long and steady. >> your company's been able to develop other revenue streams besides headhunting that have really kind of buttressed the way your earnings outlooks. >> and today, 40% of our business comes from outside what we're known for. it's anchored around leadership development, and as a ceo, it's one thing to attract people, then you've got to get them to work together towards a common purpose. >> in the june 17th conference call, you said, i'm going to quote, we are disappointed by the fact, by that, what you were talking about was in reference to the organic growth, but here, you said leadership business is good. how do i reconcile this? >> that business seven years ago was $7 million. today it's $240 million. we've done a series of acquisitions over the last several years. >> now, you have a huge cash
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acquisition. >> we want to invest in the business. we want to take this fabulous brand and go into services to help companies not just find people, but build capability. >> there are a lot of people who have watching this show who have not been on a search. can you please describe to people the phone call you get, then all the calls you have to make in order to be able to find the right person so they understand why you get such a big chunk of that person's first year salary? >> it's no more about finding the person. it's finding out who this person is. we're trying to find out who people are, can they make the difference between 2% growth and 5% growth.
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>> you're looking for borderless people, which to me, means focused on the united states. >> absolutely. when i grew up, the united states was on the middle of the map. look today. >> greenland, that big thing in the united states. >> yeah. then kansas. where i was raised. >> exactly right. >> but two-thirds of the world's middle class is going to be in asia, so cultural dexterity. the ability to meet people where they are and to drive goods and services across these artificial lines called borders. >> it's not reflecting your numbers. >> i lived in china last year. there was incredible inflationary pressure there. long term, you've just got to look at that, given the population and density. >> europe was down a quarter, but i believe that europe has bottomed. am i being too optimistic? >> no, i don't think you are. we've seen that as well. >> you have? okay. >> yeah, we have. >> big corporations with middle sized, where's the turn you are
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seeing? >> with big sized companies, and if you look globally right now, the hot area is life sciences. life sciences and health care. >> we've seen acquisitions. i interviewed the u.s. attorney for the southern district of manhattan. one of the things he has is that the culture comes from the man at top. when you are being hired -- our most important thing is we want this man to tell the truth, be honest and we care about that more than anything else right now. >> well, for that executive, man or woman, it all comes down to authenticity. leadership comes down to making others believe and enabling that belief to become reality. you've got to connect with the other person. they've got to be able to look into your eyes and see your soul. >> and you've ferreted out a lot of people turns out weren't who they say. >> yeah. >> but any way, congratulations on your stock being terrific. really is great.
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it's still very inexpensive versus the rest of the group even though you're doing better than they are. thank you so much. he is the ceo of korn/ferry international. it's still well off where it was not long ago. makes no sense to me. stay with cramer. vo: traveling you definitely end up meeting a lot more people but a friend under water is something completely different. i met a turtle friend today. avo: whatever you're looking for, expedia has more ways to help you find yours. every day we're working to be an even better company -
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and to keep our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger. hey! did you know that honey nut cheerios
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has oats that can help lower cholesterol? and it tastes good? sure does! wow. it's the honey, it makes it taste so... well, would you look at the time... what's the rush? be happy. be healthy.
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>> best part of the day from the conference? when ican said he likes -- because he's made him a quarter of a million dollars. i'm jim cramer and i will see you tomorrow. [ sirens wailing ] >> a war is raging in mexico's border towns as rival drug cartels battle for control. in a scene of horror. the mexican government has declared its own war on the drug barons. it seems powerless to stem the tide of bloodshed. [ sirens wailing ] >> [ shouting in spanish ] >> the drug gangs here are as heavily armed as the security forces. not in a million years would i expect to find something like this here in mexico. people come here on holiday. ou


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