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tv   Squawk Box  CNBC  December 17, 2014 6:00am-9:01am EST

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because stocks are swinging wildly. the dow moving -- yeah, you heard us talking about it yesterday. this is what we said would happen. moving more than 700 points yesterday in a single session. it's wednesday, december 17th, 2014. "squawk box" begins right now. good morning, everybody. welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc. i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and michelle caruso cabrera. andrew is off today. our guest host this hour, roger altman. uber is trying to make a break through in china. breaking overnight. internet giant baidu announcing it is buying a stake in the car hailing service. we'll have details on that in just a bit. but first, it is decision day at the fed. policymakers wrapping up a two-day meeting. the fomc widely expected to
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speak the language in a statement and remove a considerable time frame. the statement and an updated forecast is due out at 2:00 p.m. eastern today. a half hour later, chair janet yellen will field questions from the media. beyond the fed, the ruble and oil. the russian currency dropping about 60% against the dollar this year. cnbc's geoff cutmore has made its way to moscow and will join us there in just a minute. he is looking at russia's move to sell the currency. as for oil, worries about a surprise pressure in prices, france is now down nearly $20 since opec decided to keep rates steady late last month. add all these stories together and we have a very jittery market. the dow has shouldered triple gains and losses in the session. the blue chip index swinging 700 points yesterday alone. the dow, nasdaq and the s&p closing at their lowest levels since the understand of october.
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just a little after 6:00 a.m. is how we stand right now. the futures look like they are headed up. but as we know, where things stand right now, it could be a very different picture at 9:30. could be a different picture from that at the end. >> and 1.5%, only -- >> we're just not used to it. >> 1.5% is 250 points. >> by we've been aside sleep for so long that the young kids in the market are like, wow. >> when we think 80 points is a lot, that's fractional. it was moving with oil. did you w567 it? oil was down a couple of dollars? and the market was up by 270 and i looked and oil is up $1.50. the market was pulling back,
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goes back down a little. >> it broke within a little bit in the morning. for a long time, based on the ruble. >> and the ruble took over the story line as russia looked like it was going to get more actively involved. >> cut more gets to go to russia. i'm sorry. >> dude, i'm working on the visa. >> are you, really? >> yes. certain countries make it more difficult. i wonder why. >> use a mastercard. >> americans express won't get you there. >> you can borrow mine. actually, that might not be a good idea. where is the ruble today? did it get above 80? >> no. 79 something. 249 was the high yesterday, but 68 is -- >> it stabilized? >> i was convinced oil again yesterday. because of the market. you could see it moving around with -- well, then you saw ge did come out and say sluggish.
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when you've got so many different and sundry -- something is always going to be affecting it. >> there's always something doing well. >> always something. >> doing badly. >> it's like the best laid plans of mice and men. oh! should have thought of that. >> let's check some of the other markets. >> we can always talk about more. the ten-year yield. but that's too much. >> exactly. >> so very close to that 2% level. we're near the one-year low, absolutely. let's show you what's going on. we showed you with the ruble, it is stronger against the yen. 117 yen for every dollar euro is going to cost he $1.24. the pound/sterling. gold right now, if you're not -- gold, how do you make a case for
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gold? >> higher by $2.70. the ruble roller coaster, the currency has collapsed leaving ordinary consumers in the country to rush out and buy imported products such as cars and appliancappliances. inflation is making those items more expensive now on a daily basis. russians are not able to buy ipads or iphones right now because apple is holding the sales in russia saying the ruble's instability has made it too difficult to set prices. >> they were taking price necessary ruble as -- >> but what does that translate into dollars? it was changing by the minute. >> remember when someone said the bitcoin? and the minute they got it, they would sell it because you don't know where it's going to be ten minutes later. >> i wouldn't, either. >> currency is all psychological. when you really start to think about where the kurchtsy is.
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>> let's head to moscow. geoff cutmore brings us the latest. geoff cutmore with the visa. hey, geoff. >> yeah, hey. yeah, the shell is just to get a multi entry one in there for a year. and then anytime you've got a crisis you're on that plane and you're straight back. you're not missing too much weatherwise. it's about zero degrees right now and we're expecting snow. so it is going to get chilly. let's move away from the weather, though, because i want to talk about what we've heard over the last 30 minutes. the prime minister has come out and said the currency is now outside of the comfort zone for the economy and he has singled out russian exporters and suggested maybe part of the problem here. to some that sounds like nibbling away at some form of currency control. what they could do is sell the exporters that they need to start selling some of their hard currency stash, their foreign
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currencies to try and provide some support here for the ruble. so we have that. we know the finance ministry is in the game now. they've got about $7 billion worth of foreign currency that they've threatened to sell into the markets. the central bank put nearly $2 billion into the market yesterday. and, of course, we have that dramatic hike in interest rates here which takes us up to 17%. and that's supposed to present a huge incentive for russians to keep their money in the bank. but as you've pointed out, we've seen them heading to the stores to buy electronic goods and cars and things they might think at least will preserve some of the value of their assets. back to you. >> all right, geoff cutmore, thank you. zero degrees, wow. that's how i think of russia, the cold. >> at one point, there was one point when vodka was a story value in the history of russia because it had more stability in terms of its use and vaublt and tradability compared to --
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>> where does that freeze, do you know? >> below zero. >> he keep it in the freezer. >> sorry, geoff. have you had some vodka already? not today. yes? >> yeah, no, not today. joe, there's a big speech tomorrow. and i think that's -- this is a very interesting point because president putin gives an annual media speech. and coming up to that, we've now got obama with a bill sat in front of him to rachet up sarchkzs in the sector. the europeans have juflt said they might find a new -- to put more pressure on president putin. so it feels like the story is coming to a head.
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>> just yesterday, kerry made comments and the rublt seems to be off its lows. i wonder if we're hearing from putin, this game that he always plays where he suddenly sounds dovish and everybody is relaxing and relieved that he's going to take the off ramp. and when reality sets in, the fact that nothing has changed in eastern ukraine. >> yeah. and you know what? the problem here -- well, i say problem. from the western perspective, you look at these opinion polls and they continue to suggest that he has widespread support
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for the steps that he's taken on ukraine and crimea. so even as russians are feeling poorer by the hour because of what's happening with the ruble, they're not blaming the president for that. they're pointing to the government. prime minister medvedev and his economic team and they're saying, you need to do something about this. we don't think president putin is to blame. so the country seems to be on side with his position as far as the ukraine is concerned. which what makes tomorrow so fascinating because, really, if he wants to save this economy, he needs to take a step back here. because, what, there's $670 billion worth of u.s. dollar and other foreign currency debt in this economy that's going to need servicing over 2015. and if they don't get access to capital markets, that's going to be really tough. >> okay. all right. geoff cutmore, thank you. thank you for that report. either way, i'm going long vodka
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in that country right now. i don't think you're going to be able to get your hands on enough. we're going to get to roger altman in a second. and when putin goes in front of the media over there, is it like it used to be? you know, how do you do it so well every day? is it like that or does he get grilled? >> he's in the audience. remember, geoff was there not long ago. he had a pretty tough interview. but if you have western journalists in the audience, i think you'll get -- >> i'm wondering whether they grill them or whether it's like here with our press corps b do lay-ups with president obama. or is it like here where it's an arm of -- >> supporters? >> yeah, arm of the white house. joining us for the hour, what's his name? ed henry. anyway, joining us for the hour to talk about russia, the oil
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stock and roger altman. when i first heard michelle say why would gold go up? i first thought well, maybe in anticipation of world ward iii, but that probably is not going to happen. we were saying putin might be pushed to become even more -- i don't know, troublesome. >> more troublesome based on this. >> well, i think it's hard to interpret kerry's statement. and my own interpretation is that there's some thinking at the state department as to whether or not we might like to find a way to assist russia agency a way of possibly moving wards some stabilization of the relationsh relationship. i don't think anybody thinking if we were to offer an olive branch to russia all of a sudden
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there will be some pullback in ukraine. that's not putin's style. i don't think we're going do see any softening at the moment in terms of the russian approach there. in fact, there may have been provocation as you just said including along the baltics and we've seen these odd flights over scandinavia where russian aircraft show up unexpectedly. >> it's pretty interesting, though, that worrying about global stability of the financial markets, even though we put the sanctions on, we're like watching and if it gets too bad over there, we're ready to try to assist because nobody wants a huge global problem that could be sparked by russia. although you don't think that can happen. it's not a big enough country to spark a global -- >> i don't. if you step way back, what does this crisis really exposing? it's exposing, i think, how profoundly weak russia is. >> but even beyond that, so russia has a gdp about the size of france. about ninth in the world.
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it has a relatively small population for such a vast country, 140 million people. population is falling. life expectancy in russia is falling. >> that's unbelievable. >> it's obviously a commodity centered economy. it's suffering massive financial plight. there's no meaningful guide at the moment. it has a heavily leveraged corporate sector. and it's a very weak country. >> treasury must be thrilled at this point, right? because the sanctions didn't seem to have much of an impasse. but then when you add on the layer of falling oil prices, the corporate sector, which needs to roll over so much debt and now can't because western banks are prohibited, now you've got the perfect combination where you have the real squeeze on him in a way we haven't before, right? >> yes. michelle, i think sanctions had a bigger impact indirectly. everybody measures the precise effect of the sanctions themselves acid written. but there's an additional effect which is the freezing of
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investment and financing into russia on the part of so many participants who look at the sanctions, who look at the tension and say i'm pulling back or i'm not going there. and i've seen in so many situations investments that might have been made and -- >> foreign direct investment, yes, it's hurtful to them. but now, gazpron, roftnet, that is where the problem is. now we're getting close. >> the russian population blame us instead of their own government and their president for their problems at this point. we win support and lose support and -- >> that's one of the other things being exposed by this crisis. putin's popularity has soared in recent months because of his annexation of crimea, his moch into eastern ukraine, all his
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talk about legitimizing russia as a great power and all of that has made him very, very popular among the russian people. which is why i don't think we'll see any pullback for the time being in ukraine or in the level of tension. and it's also why i think putin is in a really, really tough spot. because so respond to any overture from the west, that there should be one, hard for him to do. and so he -- >> in order to do the right thing for his economy and his people, it makes him look weak. >> because he spent all this time effectively demonizing the west, demonizing the united states, and seeing his popularity rise. so he is really cornered. one more thing i think is fascinating, how many millions of -- did we read over the past few weeks and months about how -- and i remember this phrase so vividly. putin is playing chess and the u.s. is playing checkers. you know, it hasn't been that
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way. >> even with how much crimea had oil wells and that's what he wanted. now that he got it, you add it all together, is it worth the same it used to be because it's all been marked down and halved? >> do you even believe the opinion polls? if somebody calls you up in russia and says, how do you feel about putin? what do you say? do you say no, i don't like him? >> and do we care whether the russians blame us? they don't like us, anyway. do we care we're not popular over there? >> i think that's the only way putin ever gets pushed out. >> well, he's not. he's basically going to be there until he's gone. >> but is there total oil wealth? it's about the same as it was before they took crimea. it's been marked down 40%, hasn't it? i bet you they haven't even broken even. >> i'm not close to that. i'm not sure the oil reserves in crimea are that enormous. >> why did they do it? there's also the coast. >> sacred from a russian
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historical point of view. but he is in a real corner. >> and that's dress. grudge picked up on this yesterday, art cashin or someone said he's like a wounded animal now. >> i do think that kerry's comments, it might be the case of the united states and perhaps the west as a whole look like to find a way to assist russia. even if there's no short-term payback. >> it's an off ramp. nobody wants to take it. >> one of the interesting dynamics here is whether there will be any overture at all from the u.s. or from the west as a whole or perhaps on germany on assisting russia financially. that depends on how bad this gets. >> he only knows bullying is and power. >> all i'm going to say is it might be the west would like to see an opportunity there. >> for sure. >> i'm not sure we want a total collapse of the russian economy. >> i don't think we would. that would be first of all from a financial point of view very destabilizing. much more with roger altman
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over the next hour. still to come this morning, the latest fallout from the sony hacking scandal. why the new york premier of "the interview" has been canceled. and then could russia's losses be a gain for some investors? we'll have one argument on why now is the time to buy. and in the next hour, american consumers saving big bucks at the bump right now. but what are they doing with the extra cash? 6:40 eastern. the volkswagen golf was just named motor trend's 2015 car of the year. so was the 100% electric e-golf, and the 45 highway mpg tdi clean diesel.
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and last but not least, the high performance gti. looks like we're gonna need a bigger podium. the volkswagen golf family. motor trend's 2015 "cars" of the year.
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>> it's a great outfit is what i was saying. >> that's not what i heard. i heard one of those shirts again. you give me a hard time when i went simple. you said i was too corporate. i can't win. >> you're right. >> let's talk about what's going on here. >> best dressed man. >> in the northeast this morning. we've got a warm front here. we've got some rain in through boston, in through massachusetts. new york just cloudy at the moment. later this afternoon and this evening, there's a little snow. for this time of the year, you expect to see more blues on the map, more snow for the system. maybe buffalo seeing some snow later on this afternoon and this evening. we need more of that after the seven feet they got a couple of weeks ago. this storm system hanging around, just messy through new
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england again. maybe a stray shower into new york city later on. big snow up in what's called arista county maine. not a heavily populated area. just some key areas for the most part and some moose live there. to the north and east, it will be out of here tomorrow. big snowfall totals up here, not getting down to the major cities. syracuse, looking at 1 to 3 inches. real quickly, guys, i want to give you an idea of what's going on for christmas eve. we're not sure exactly what's going to happen. probably pretty large storms on christmas eve and christmas. we'll watch out for you. >> do you get to play like this anywhere else? >> do i what? >> do you get to play like this? >> i get to work with al roker every morning. but sometimes you guys are nicer about it. iems like, is al kidding or does he hate what i'm wearing? >> they're way too serious. i usually get a straight
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serious -- >> al sees this young, handsome up and comer that knows whether like nobody else. and he's like, the whippersnapper, who is the boss? >> you know what, though? al reported for 34 hours straight. >> you don't have a diaper. >> i think he made time to go to the bathroom. i started watching that just to check in on him. >> he was awesome. i'm kidding pep made some reference to that at some point. >> punch drunk. 34 hours? >> three hours, we get punch drunk. >> thank you. we'll see you again tomorrow. there are new threats from those responsibilities attack against sony picture studios. the group is now making threat against movie theaters set to show the comedy "the interview." the department of homeland security says they are aware of the threat but there is no credible intelligence to indicate a plot against the u.s.
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movie theaters. the new york premier of the movie has been canceled. that is a tough way to launch a movie. >> he would be worried that people wouldn't show up, right? you have a big premier and it's empty? bad, bad pr. >> but you remember lenny bruce was before his time. in terms of what you could do. now, you've got to think of the whole world. we think that everybody is, you know, gotten our point in terms of cultural -- >> freedom, liberties. >> can you imagine, when they even found out that this was not certainly saying that they had any right to do something like this. but they have to be like, you've got to be kidding me. in china, you can't even google tiananmen square in china. this is about assassinating a world leader? you would think here it's -- it's a parity. over there, i'm sure they -- you know, i don't know. >> clearly. >> but what scares me is so they got bad about a movie and they can decimate sony.
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if it was -- what if they got mad at somebody else, is it that easy to hack united technologies or is it that easy to hack -- >> my guess is the banks have much better security. >> a bank? >> coming in and trying to come through the front door. movie studios, maybe not so much. >> i think that's right. banks spend enormous amounts with enormous help in terms of fortifying themselves against s&p 500 cyber attacks. although it's a moving threat all the time. >> and it is a wake-up call for corporate america. >> right. >> everyone should -- >> also, the hold story about don't put on an e-mail what you don't want to see on the front page of the "wall street journal." >> never goes away. >> people don't learn that lesson well enough. >> it's become our equivalent of talking. we use it very, very freely. >> snapchat. >> yeah. >> disappears, but it never really does, right? >> no. >> if you're in a litigious business, and there are m, it's a really practical risk.
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some e-mail you send can end up in a -- can become public. so one of the many lessons of this, i think, is people are awfully loose with e-mails they send. >> we'll see, this there's going to be further fallout from this. back to russia with the ruble in free fall and russia's economic free fall, is now the time to be seeking investment opportunity in russia? chris granville is co-founder of the trusted sources. and also our guest host, roger altman is here, as well. i interviewed a guy named harvey yesterday running an investment fund in russia for 20 years. and he says, look, this looks bad right now, but back in 1998, people who bought at the right time made a boat load of mope. you bought gazpron for 99 cents and sold it at $12 later. are we there yet when it comes to russia?
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>> well, people were asking that question back in 1999, as well, and also in the fall of 2008. and the proverbial falling knife is very unpleasant to try and catch. but harvey is spot on. the scenario is exactly that one. the bounceback will come. it will be dramatic. but it won't be quite as quick and instant gains, as it was, in those previous russian crashes of 1998 and 2008. why not? then in 1998, the russian economy had tremendous pent up growth potential. the economy had just lost half of its output due to communism. the whole world was rallying around to stimulate and now the world is rallying against russia. also back in 2008, re, the saudis were disciplining the oil -- pushing up the oil price again by cutting some outputs, which is the opposite of what they're doing now. so it's not going to be that dramatic. the scenario is basically the
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same. the opportunity is there. and the driver is the key point. the fundamental driver is geopolitical still. the oil price is a severe shock for russia. but without the sanctions, it would not have had the effect of causing the meltdown that is now occurred. the sanctions lifting the industry driver, the conditionality of that is the peace settlement in southeastern ukraine. the so-called -- there is progress there. secretary of state kerry speaking in london yesterday, congratulated or commended russia for constructive measures towards -- they've done that in the last two weeks. that is the key positive and that i think which should make investors think about this opportunity despite the proverbial falling knife problem. >> for the record, harvey said not yet, as well. don't catch the falling knife. >> how about the opportunity, a short-term opportunity based on
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what you're talking about? >> i think he will maintain a straight line, the interest rates will be the main point of volatility. but in addition to those kind of ritual signals, remember, crimea is not affected, is not relevant to the key sanctions. the united states and did
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european union have not made the release of crimea a key. it's rhetoric on that which takes us further than we've been so far. that would away key signal for investors to look out for. >> chris, great having you on. thanks so much. in the past we've seen institutiones like the imf step in when you've got an emerging market debt crisis. chances of that in this case are what? >> low. >> zero. >> they're low. after all, the imf, you know, represents its shareholders. and they have to be agreement among shareholders for an emergency rescue generally or at least an implicit agreement. i think that would be hard to get. more over, i don't think russia wants that at all. so i don't think that at all. >> there's no path right now. >> i know we talk about the amount of corporate debt as it's coming due over the past several months. but i think there's more than
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$100 billion coming due in early january, right? >> no. to the end of 2015, it's $137 billion. >> there's a huge chunk of it that is due in january. >> 30 billion between december .january. >> that's additional pressure or is it not a big deal because they have 400 billion that they can play with. >> the central bank has a big pile of money. what do they do with it? >> they try to protect the ruble? >> do they partial it out and say here, gazprom, you get to use it in order to deal with your repayment. that kind of thing. >> there's a lot of speculation as to how much, the russian foreign exchange reserves are available right now for intervention. and there seems to be a lot of confusion in the markets as to how much that is. i thought it was odd today 7 billion, which was fed was fed by finance ministry, not by the central bank. that is odd. the central bank there is not independent. so i'm like, here. >> and it was left over, they said. >> under the rug.
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that was odd and not a confidence builder. let's go to break. coming up, global markets have been looking at russia, obviously, also focused on oil. but investors may have overlooked, but i don't think so. a little thing going on in washington today and that is a fed decision. but moving that considerable period, some would argue, that explains oil. that also explains the ruble because of the strong dollar. so we know this is coming. we'll be right back to "squawk box."
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467. welcome back to southbound is southbound. joining you right now is bruce kagman. steven whiting is a global chief
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strategist. our guest host, roger altman. why don't we talk about what role janet yellen is today. she's putting on a much broader scale, a much bigger world stage than she would have been given what's happening in russia. she is now going to be taking politics into her hands. >> well, i think the fed has to keep its mind on what's really important in terms of what it's seeing in the economy, in terms of the international influences and how it's seeing risks to the financial market moves. and i think the basic message they're going to give us today is that they continue to stay on track on their forecast. that keeps them with their guidance for the june move. but the world is very uncertain and nothing is decided and they'll ton be data dependent as well as sensitive to what's happening. but the fed is not going to back off of its guidance. and i don't think on balance the risks here are pushing them to get more worries about what's going to happen in the u.s. next year. >> roger, again, i think the
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framework has chavengd drastically over the last few days. it was teledpraved by the fed that they were going to be removing considerable time from the statement. we know they're moving closer to raising rates. but if janet yellen says anything that is very forceful today, she will push for the rise in the dollar and push the ruble down and that could changes things on a stability level. >> there are peoples clearer to this than i am. but i don't think these going to deviate from the expectations. sticking to the script that we would have seen a week ago or two weeks ago. i doubt. >> she's got to walk a fine line, though, in what she says in this press conference. >> it's too late to have a press conference. but i don't think that russia related factors or global financial market factors centering around russia are going to change what others we all expected over the past week or ten days. what the fed says and what the message is.
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i don't think so. >> steven, we probably won't hear much difference in what we expect from the fed. but how do you figure out how the markets might react to any of that news? >> it's a very difficult time. you can take a look at liquidity in the marketplace as being rather low. there is just tremendous turmoil within the marketplace. and there's lots of spinovers. this is not just the russian ruble. this is the high yield market in the united states. credit conditions to borrowers outside of the energy sector. this is some markets that are closer to home. there's been a weakness in emerging markets. take a look at the mexican peso, for example. so this is a time where we get to see what the fed is made of. the u.s. economy has grown probably 4% in the fast three quarters and employment has been strong. but there is this undercurrent of global financial vulnerability. i think she has to acknowledge that, at least, in the press conference. >> what do you think is going on in terms of how you try to
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figure out what gdp is for the next year? that's good news for the gdp. but the concern about potential contagion from what's happening around the globe? how do you even put that into a model? >> i think it's hard because you don't know where it's going to lead. there is a sense of uncertainty here. but i want to reinforce the point that the oil price drop even with the dollar rise combined with what we're seeing in the economy overall is a solid message for what 201 is going to look like. so i think you continue to have a positive tone on the economy. you continue to be open-minded to things happening, particularly stress in the financial markets. and i think that's kind of the way the fed is going to play it today. they're open-minded. they're data dependent. they doevent lose site of the risks. but right now when they put their thinking cap on, things are looking better for 2015. >> steven, very quickly, in terms of how you feel about things in the market, would you be telling investors to go ahead and get in here? >> yes. we are overweight, large cap
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u.s. equities. we like risks for the next year. you know, i would just bear in mind, at this particular juncture, that this extremely large drop in crude oil strongly dividing winners and losers, it's probably a trillion dollar global stim use husband for consumers. but that stimulus is very widely distributed. it's a small positive issue for most everyone. it is a tremendous financial stress for a few. and you've seen in the past, for example, just look at greece within europe. that you could see extreme stress for a small number of borrowers can create problems that can cascade a bit. so this something that we have to be careful about that markets don't discern this very well and there can be spillovers that could be intended. >> thank you both for joining us today. roger is our guest host and will be with us for the rest of the hour. still to come, what are americans doing with the money they are saving at the pump? and then bob breaks down the russia situation. 7:20 eastern time,
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blackrock's chief of fixed income will join us, as well.
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welcome back to "squawk box." u.s. equity futures at this hour suggest we're going to have a positive open if it continues this way. the dow would open higher by 96 points. making headlines, baidu is buying a stake in uber. the skp making the announcement in beijing today, but terms were not disclosed. the ride hailing service is valued at about $40 billion. in addition to baidu, other
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investors include goldman sachs and google. coming up, falling gasoline brices, that is welcome news to most consumers. but where are they using their savings? we'll have an exclusive survey when "squawk box" comes right back.
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"squawk box" wanted to know what consumers are doing with the gas price savings. so we asked the national
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association of convenience stores to poll their customers. look at that. 2.54 f$2.54 for unleaded. . $compared to last year's $3.23 per gallon. joining us is quarters of all gasoline sold in the united states of the good to see you, john. >> good morning, how are you doing? >> good. you surveyed consumers, they have saving a ton of money, nearly a dollar a gallon on gas. what are they doing it? >> spending it on day-to-day essentials or holiday spending, and the other half is paying down debt. >> how much is driven by where they think the price is going? do they think it's falling or rising? do think they about it? >> you know, we asked them that question every single month, and this month, for the first time, more people thought price in the next 30 days would be lower than higher. they are optimistic, but the trajectory seen in the last few months continues through the next 30 days. >> the other question, are lower
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questions a sign of an improving economy? you asked that as well. what did they say? >> 65% said it was true. look at the crop tabs, group 18 to 34 is more encouraged of the lower prices. >> i thought you would say they are buying donuts and coffee. >> we hope they are. we really, really hope they are because, you know, from our model, we don't make a lot of money on the fuel, but inside the store. it's get them to the store, get them inside so we can do a good job. >> when will you have a good idea if they are doing that spending, john? >> we'll see results in the next couple months. we get scan data from a chunk of the members every month, taking a month or two to really analyze numbers. hopefully, by the enof january, we'll have a better idea of what the effect of uptick has been because of the lower prices. >> we'll have you back then. >> thank you. >> our special guest this hour, roger, we've been talking 5 lot in the breaks about what you think is happening here, what
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the potential fallout is. what are the take aways of the situation with russia and what it means? >> well, we started often talking about how this exposes the -- russia's profoundly weak, not strong. falling population, falling life expectancy, heavy of heavily indebted, and so forth. the big take away is, you know, russia may view itself as a great superpower, and, of course, we know they have a nuclear arsenal, very important, but it's looking small compared to the power of the global capital markets. we live in the era where the global capital markets are the superpower in the world. when they move against you, as they moved against russia as we see, there's nothing that can stop that. so, however, as we all said, a month or two ago, a few weeks ago, and not really, and the global capital markets have spoken, and russia's on its knees. it's, again, a verification of
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the one superpower in the world is the global financial markets, even for russia. >> and that's -- let's underline that that's a good thing, right? >> of course it's a good thing. >> moving over democracy over capital so we don't have to go to war anymore with guns and armor. >> right. >> instead, investors walk with the feet, and that brings, on occasion, some countries to bearment we'll see if it works. >> no meaningful country can essentially withstand the global financial markets moving unmassed against them, and russia can't either. >> do you think he realizes that? i remember in the european financial crisis, german leaders said, we will not be pushed around by the global capital markets. oh, yeah? watch. right? do you think he realizes what he's facing? >> i've never met mr. putin, but people i know well spent time with him. they tell me that, number one, he's not particularly knowledgeable on economic and financial matters, and, number two, he's not particularly interested in them.
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i think he's going to try hard to essentially ignore this, and i have no idea what he's going to do at the press conference tomorrow, but it would surprise me if he was concessionary, and i think for public consumption purposes, he'll ignore the collapse, but fundamentally, you know, russia's in a corner and in a really tough spot. >> if that's the situation, then this turmoil may continue for some time to come. >> yes. i mean -- i mean, capital's flying out of russia. brains are flying out of russia. every person with a western education and/or a meaningful amount of money left the country or is trying to leave the country. this is a country that's sliding both short term and very long term, and, you know, it does not have a lot of friends. people talk about the relationship between china and russia. you know, we'll see.
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the chinese are happy to buy gas from russia at super cheap prices and happy to take advantage of russia, but are the chinese going to say, let's, you know, embrace or close historical friends, the russians? no. i think russia is isolated. i think it's weak. i think putin is cornered. might serve the west as we discussed earlier to try to figure out a way to help him, because in the long run, we need a working steady relationship with russia somehow, but they're in a tough spot, really in a tough spot. if you believe oil prices remain at these levels for the next six to 12 months, which i do, it's just going to be worse. next year, what will they do? 4 to 5% decline in the gdp. >> i agree. it's not going up. it isn't. they tried too hard. they got invested interest in keeping it here to try -- they
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are devious, trying to hurt some of our frackers and hurt our lng. >> imagine you're in a board room in the united states or, you know, the board room of a major lending institution, and the question is do we put money in russia in one form or another? the answer is no. that reflects the sanctions, difficult relationship, and financial outlooks. >> roger, thank you for joining us. >> great to be here. >> here's kind of a democrat, kind of. we'll let roger go. >> conservative democrat. >> and you're in business. >> there's not anymore of those these days. >> and he runs a business. he has more experience than most. ready to take his seat, bob, russia, oil, the fed, why hillary clinton's the greatest presidential candidate in history and the global markets when "squawk box" comes right back. the volkswagen golf was just named
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we have a lineup of experts to tackle turmoil. >> bob on new risk and new opportunities, and u.s. diplomacy with russia. >> the wild swings in global stocks. >> black rock, fixed income chief on today's fed announcement, and janet yelp's news conference. >> plus, policy experts on oil and currencies. everything you need to make sense of the quickly moving market as the second hour of "squawk box" begins right now. welcome back to "squawk box" here on cnbc, first in business
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worldwide, i'm joe with becky and michelle caruso-cabrera, and andrew is off this week. we have surprising study about deaths in chirp's animated films. a story that makes you think twice about the movies your kids watch. details later this hour. >> i was forever traumatized by bambi. >> my mom had to take me out of the theater. >> we know about finding nemo in the beginning, the very beginning, the mother -- you know, and then he's stuck with albert brooks. who wants that? for a father. take a look -- talking about turning out totally neurotic no matter what happens. dow futures indicated up by triple digits. becky? >> wild rides. among the top stories this hour, though, the ruble strengthens
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overnight, and more on the currency move in a moment. apple halted online sales of the product in russia. the ruble's instability made it too difficult to set prices in russia. on the economic agenda in the u.s., the latest consumer price index released at 8:30 a.m. eastern time, and then 2:00 p.m. the policy statement, and we watch for a change in the feds' language on how long they keep rates low. the statement will be made followed by a news conference that fed chair janet yellen will lead. >> plummeting crude prices and g geopolitical shock waves throughout the market, and the fed caps off a two day meeting. to put it in perspective is our guest host, vice chairman at kissinger associates and former state department undersecretary for economic growth, energy, and the environment. on the markets, jim paulson, chief investment strategist at wells capital management.
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i don't know. i was not channelling you, jim, or just you, but you remember i was nodding when you were talking a week and a half ago about how almost everything positive of which there are many things, all the positives were pretty well nope known by the m, which is different than it's been for the last two or three years. the market likes to go up when the negatives are well known and takes a breather when it's down. we are down 4 or 5% since you were on. >> yeah, i think, you know, joe, it's significant. we had essentially three, you know, at least minor corrections now since june. this is the third one. and we're sitting here this morning about where we were at the end of june, and so it -- we are doing -- starting the process of refreshing this bull market, if you will, by basically going nowhere in the last six months and getting some minor gut checks along the way. that's the type of thing that refreshes some of the
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challengesment one is being too optimistic of sentiment. another one being, you know, fairly high valuations. we're sitting about 17.5 times earnings tonight. we were at 18.5, you know, at the market top. i still think, though, the big elephant in the room for 2015 is the resetting of interest rates, which we hear about this afternoon. i kind of think that -- i just can't come to grips with why falling oil and falling long bond yields throughout the globe is 5 bad thing for the global economy or the market. i often think we'll find a bottom here somewhere and get a rally at least for a period of time if we decide that crude oil's bottomed. >> you love the market, and i do too. watching it work, all the stars aligned for a great market and a santa claus rally a week and a half ago. you never know what it's going to be, and who knew that oil prices being too weak would actually be what started getting
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people adamant. weird how it works. >> i think so, joe. it's been a puzzle what, why the market's come off this time. i still wonder if it's more tied to the fed than people think. >> well, is it oil? isn't oil? isn't it the ruble? we're separating -- we have oil, just separate from the ruble, which is separate from what yellen will say. it's all the same thing. the fed's on the way out, and the dollar's on its way up, and oil and, you know, the ruble on the way down. >> they are all interrelated. >> i think so. >> it's hard to sort them out, but what happened with the oil prices going down, and, particularly, the russian prices, russian prices hurt of lot of emerging market debt, high yield debt, the lower oil prices hurt high yield debt particularly for oil companies and companies in the space, so they are all creating to the uncertainty in financial markets, and then some important
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countries are going to be adversely affected. don't be gleeful what happened to russia. that's affecting a lot of markets around the world. they are the third biggest customer for western europe. western europe is our biggest market. it all interacts. pulling it apart to dissect them, it's a period of uncertainty, and lower oil prices is part of the russian problem and diversely affects the financial markets, but it's good for consumers, and net-net, it's good for the united states. >> right. and, you know, you would imagine that unless there's something ahead of this that we just don't know about, that growth story is on track, 3% here, but when you see oil do that, if it's not supply, you wonder if you're missing something. >> no, i don't think we're missing. it really is. the oil is going down in large measure because of two things. one, higher supply particularly, and then it's a story that's
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emerging for a period of time. the other part, though, is weakening of demand in places like china. not a collapse, but if you look at the growth outlook in western europe, in china, in many other countries, it's a little more diminished, and, therefore, some of the big emerging consumers of oil are not buying as much. >> you saw pimco with the emerging markets bond fund, and we talked about who is getting hurt here, the $3 billion fund. they are down. >> hammered. >> we'll have valerion on, but he said we were out of the u.s. trash r treasuries, but we end elsewhere if it fell that way. this shows what happens when you go elsewhere, chase yield in emerging markets. that's what happens. >> exactly right. chase the yield, these are emerging markets, and many of them are vulnerable.
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not as vulnerable as a 1997 and 1998 with the asian financial crisis and then the russian financial crisis. we shouldn't forget that was worse so far than this. they raised interest rates to 150 basis points, by over -- >> 150%, right? in i understand nendonesia? >> went up 150% over a period of time. the ruble declined by 80% in the course of a month. this was volatile. what picked it up over a period of time was oil prices went up in 1999 and 2000. the probability of that happening? this time around? very low. >> although, jim, roger altman made the point off camera, didn't get the chance to talk about it on camera, seeing a dramatic decline like this in oil prices, it tells you it's financial markets. investors are financial markets in this, these are not end users, no longer a proxy of what happens in the economy. do you agree with that? >> halfway -- >> sorry, jim, and then bob.
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>> okay. thanks. i was going to say i do, becky. i think what i notice about this collapse is it's been interpreted as evidence of a deflationary pressure and spiral. look at commodity prices. i see oil way off. look at the s&p goldman sachs nonenergy commodity prices, it's flat year to date, and it's been up 4% since september lows. i see the same thing with industrial metal prices. they're up since september lows and flat year to date. this is not a broad based commodity price spiral downward due to economic weakness. this is a one off commodity collapse. i think due to dollar strength and over supply maybe because of the united states, and it's a different message. i really think that the part of the reason why the market's coming off is because people worried about weak global growth and deflationary pressure. what we get from this is what
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we're getting is a massive fiscal stimulus with an oil tax cut and massive decline in bond yields which might cause just the opposite to happen next year, a pickup in growth. >> i'm with you. the thing you're bullish on, prospects for growth, especially in the united states, and i was going to ask whether this changes your view. i don't think it does. you point out that growth could say where it is, but it might be good that rests stay low and the fed's not in a rush because there's cover from oil being low. take it for what it is. it is good. in the meantime, things got over confident. you're bullish long term. >> i am. >> all good things, but i see -- you dknow, it may be, wait a minute, the fed does not have to rush here, and growth is 3% or above? that's reallied goo, by egood. >> what we did with oil prices and bond yields, the eurozone,
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everywhere, actually, the u.s. does well, but next year, there could be a bounce in the eurozone, japan, the emerging world as far as economic growth giving this global economy another feel. >> paul sen, great minds. that or i'm hiptized. one or the other. bob will stick around the rest of the hour. that's how you -- that's what salesmen do. am i right or am i right? >> to make you say yes? >> 1:00 a good time to call? 5,000 shares? 3,000? >> when we come back this morning, counting down to the fed statement, and yellen's news conference, and black rock chief joins us with more on what to expect from the central bank. them the drop in crude prices could have a dramatic impact on diplomatic relations between the united states and rush. s talking oil's ripple effects at
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7:30 a.m. eastern. the slide of the ruble, can we prevent an all-out currency crisis? we'll be right back. [sound of crickets] brii,brii,brii
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no matter what challenge they face, easter seals is here for america's veterans. welcome back, futures now are suggesting a positive open. last we checked, the dow is stronger by the minute. opening higher by 131 points. chinese internet giant is buying a stake in uber.
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they plan to collaborate to expand uber's presence in china. the size of the stake was not disclosed. joining investors like goldman sachs and google. it's valued at $40 billion. a new study found children's cartoons depict death more than for adults. the main marks in children's cartoons were two and a half likely times to die than protagonists in films for grownups. the characters were three times as likely to be murdered. it's not a trend. there's no evidence that the level of violence increased since the 1937 release of "white," and the queen stumbles off the cliff after a pursuit by the seven dwarves 37. >> and dumbo, they lock his mother up in the chains. >> terrible. >> he gets out. >> come on. >> eventually.
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awful to watch. >> nemo's mother is eaten by a shark, only one egg does not die. >> you're right. >> every single one -- >> that's part of the human experience. >> it's part of the human experience, but kyle's 3, and the other night in his sleep, he was crying. >> there's too many deer around. in california, you can't go after them. they are everywhere jumping into the cars. >> they are pests, yes. >> i have no sympathy. moving on. the group claiming responsibility for the hacking attack on sony is now making threats, serious, serious threats, against movie theaters. which are set to show and open that movie called "the interview," and the department of homeland security officials say they are aware of the threat, but at this point, no credible intelligence to indicate an active plot against
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u.s. movie theaters, but if you say you're going to do something to the movie theater, people remember the "batman" premier. >> it's hard enough to get to a movie, for reasons not to go -- >> the stated intention of isis to have lone wolf and other groups, lone wolves do the damage. premier has been cancelled, and seth rogan and james franco cancelled their appearances. did you see the e-mails about him? oh, my god. >> no, i didn't. >> how he acts. >> he had difficulties when he hosted the oscars, but with seth, that brings out the best. >> just can't get wasted. always makes movies about getting wasted. is that a coi understand dense? i don't know. coming up, the final fed meeting of the year, traders watch closely for a language tweak. steve leastman's going to explain next. next, we talk to jeff rosenberg
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from black rock. he manages a lot of money and talking about the feds' move today when we return. time now for today's aflac trivia question. who is the richest person in spain? the answer when cnbc's "squawk box" continues. and a gentle wavelike motion... ahhh-ahhhhhh. liberate your spine... ahhh-ahhhhhh...aflac! and reach, toes blossoming... not that great at yoga. yeah, but when i slipped a disk he paid my claim in just four days. ahh! four days? yep. see why speed matters, at aflac.com. you're down with crestor. yes! when diet and exercise aren't enough, adding crestor lowers bad cholesterol up to 55%. crestor is not for people with liver disease, or women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. tell your doctor all medicines you take. call your doctor if you have muscle pain or weakness,
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now the answer to today's trivia question. who is the richest person in spain? the answer? inditex's group founder, amancio ortega with. >> he's like one the top three in the entire world. rapping up the two day meeting this afternoon ending with yellen's final news conference of 2014, and who else other than steve will be there? give us the expectations for today's decision. >> michelle, this is the most important of the meetings so far whether to cut the cord and do away with the guidance that the fed stays at 0 interest rates for a considerable time. this would be noless than a change in the regime governing fed policy for more than two years now. the change from banks that
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promises to stay at 0 for several meetings to one where it raises rates at any meeting based on the economic data. it would be the first step towards the first rate hike in 8 years. the recent stronger u.s. growth data for jobs says, you know, the feds should be making the change to begin a process of coming off of 0. the trouble for yellen is that it's at a time of global volatility caused by weakness, plunging oil prices, and turbulence in currency markets. the mfed will see oil prices asa positive for growth, but there's concern that prices will keep it from hitting 2% inflation target. two-thirds say the fed drops the considerable time frame from the statement, and the others say the wall street is on track for a july 2015 rate hike. the risk for yellen is launching a new regime today adds to market volatility and uncertainty in a time when the fed prefers to be the source of
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stability. she could, by the way, offer a dovish take on the change at the press conference. what could influence the fed today any sign in the consumer price index report what we see with the lower energy prices reducing core inflation or taking it out or taking out food and energy, that's what core inflation is, could give fed pause to see the core inflation number coming down. michelle? >> thank you, steve. tune in at 2:00 p.m. for the fed decision followed by the news conference where yellen may strike a dovish tone, poly, or change things regarding the statement. >> it matters this time around. if they remove language from the statement, they have to walk a fine line to not spook markets too much. >> keeping the feds' expectations, and chief
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investment, and that firm manages fixed income assets, and thank you for joining us today. >> thanks for having me. >> before we get in the fed, what do you think of russia, what is does to emerging markets, and what you're doing as a result? >> that's a huge concern. it's another big concern as steve talked about. how much will financial market uncertainty change the outlook here for the fed? certainly, in emerging markets, you're looking at currency volatility, and historic volatility, and it's having a big issue on financial market conditions. as steve highlighted as well, though, when you think about the oil price decline at the heart of what's rattling financial markets around russia, oil price declines is good for the real economy. the real question is going to be, how much is the fed concerned about financial markets versus hoump is the fed concerned about the real economy? they are going to weigh on the side of the real economy, but it is -- it's a close call here for the this afternoon. >> what have you been thinking
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as you watched, you know, you refer to volatility in the currency markets, but looking at the ruble, that's off the charts. how has that impacted other markets you watch, and are there markets crushed that shouldn't be? >> well, i think this is a real change in the outlook from what we've been thinking about, talking about the last several years. you know, steve mentioned a historic change in terms of fed policy. the big change here is leaving an era of 0 interest rates behind, and in that era, it's characterized by behavior where the reaching for yield is associated with not taking on any risk. i think the best way to put it into context what we see with regards to oil price declines, we're seeing in the energy space, impacts on high yield, and, of course, russia, emerging countries highly exposed and vulnerable to declines is an invex of default risk and credit risk. for the first time in a long time. this is really the turn in the
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credit cycle, and it really begins to challenge the ability of investors to think about getting yield without feeling like they are taking risk. what we see is when you reach for the yield, you are injecting a lot of risk in the portfolio, which we are finally seeing that show up. >> have you heard any complaints at this point about lack of liquidity? i hear from people who trade corporate debt, they have an incredibly difficult time getting a trade on. high yield, we saw dramatic gapping in pricing, and they believe it's now sending to corporate debt. your firm put up the note that the corporate bond market is broken at this point? any implications of that at this point? >> we are seeing implications. liquidity is always challenged in terms of corporate markets, particularly around turns in investor expectations. a minute ago, we had a long period of investor expectations, a period characterized as complacency, where people add risk in the portfolios and not
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feel like there was a lot of risk. what you see in the markets is very one-way behavior. we go from student body left to student body right. there's no intermediation of risk in the period, that's not really a new thing. it's just new in terms of the fact that for the last six or seven years -- >> could we have -- >> -- had a oneway move. >> could we have a systemic effect because of it? >> could we have a big systemic event? we have to be careful with those questions. people think of 2008 as a systemic event. i don't think that's what we are talking about here, but there's been plenty of credit events in the recent history, 1994, 1997, 2008, 2002, not rising to the level of the systemic risk of 2008 bringing us to the great depression 2.0, but nevertheless significant market events, significant for portfolios. i'm not saying that's what we have here, but, certainly, it's a different era, a different point on the credit cycle than
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we thought we were just three or four months ago. >> hey, jeff, just to cut through that, i hear what you're saying, risk changed, when these things move, they move quickly and one directionally. very simple advice. what do you tell people now? come back to the u.s.? >> well, i think what people are going to be reassessing is what is their tolerance for risk? people have needed yield, and they reached for yield and they have been reward r for that in six years. we'll see how much risk tolerance people have for principle losses given the yields they are getting. people have to reassess what is the right waiting in their portfolio for the higher risk instruments? as we see that, we want to caution people from overreacting in that environment, but, of course, as the outlook going forward changes for the amounts of credit risk and default risk we see in the market, there's a permanently higher level of perceived ri ed risk.
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that's going to shift portfolios. during that time, there's great opportunities, and so to the extent that portfolios had liquidity in them, that's where you are going to see the value of that portfolio because you can take value of the dislocations seen in the credit markets. >> sounds potentially painful for people. >> blackrock that wrote the piece or blackstone? >> it was you guys. >> could have been black water. >> we had a piece talking. >> corporate bond markets. jeff, thank you for joining us today. >> thank you. >> love to have you back again soon. >> great. >> confusing, black stone, black rock. >> black stone. s. >> oh, that's a good way. >> black water. that was iraq, right? they're gone. >> i don't confuse that onement
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i got that one. >> one of the lessons is this is by and large oil prices good for most countries and most companies and certainly all consumers. there are few companies that are adversely affected. if you're in the energy space, there's exporters add vaersly affected, but for the global economy, europe, japan, for the united states, for india, for china, for most emerging economies, this is a plus. we have to get through the financial volatility, but the real benefits for a large number of people is positive. >> being journalists, we focus on the negative. a latin american investor says it becomes the somalia. >> for venezuela -- >> descend into that chaos? >> they are poorly governed, energy sector is poorly governed. it could be more chaotic, and a
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real problem. >> in is hitting the fan here, fedex, take a look. let's bring up a chart of where it is. >> oh. >> so far, just -- just happened. the company's reporting $2.14 a share, the estimate was 2.22. >> counter intuitive with oil prices down. >> not the most important number for them, of course. next quarter will be more important. 912 is what the year estimate was, and they just said 850 to $9. >> the outlook assumes continued moderate growth at a modest net benefit. >> $8 to $9 is below. >> they don't give guidance. street can get ahead of itself. >> a lot of times, seen many times in the past where the stocks shakes it off, ends up being up.
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>> the chairman, fred smith, looks at this positively. a strong result, higher operating margin in the second quarter with continued growth and volumes in base yields the transportation segments. points out the final stages of the year's final shipping season. >> 11.985 was the estimate, this is 11.9 is all i know. i don't know if it's 800 million -- is that 800? no, 80, 80 mill shy. >> one of the things to point out is revenue was higher because of u.s. domestic package volume and export package based revenue, but offset by fuel charges and exchange rates. i forget about that. they have fuel surcharges they are in as lower fuel prices come down, they see some benefit from it, they don't get surcharges that the analysts expected. i don't know why they don't back that out. >> thin trading, but it's 169,
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that trades down 476. so, you know -- >> what, ultimately, is the core issue? lower oil prices, but how -- how do people get it so wrong when we know people are just shipping more and more and more at christmas time. >> they don't give guidance to the stuff, so the analysts are left to their own devices. >> it's been an issue forever. we had them on 15 years ago. >> it would be hard. >> to what? >> ceos have a hard time knowing how much. >> true. >> if you're outside the company not getting the updates, it's hard. >> they said they had a lot of improvements on the operating margins. part of that was growth in international export, and cost management related profit improvement programs, lower pension expense, and a benefit from fuel. it was offset by the timing of higher aircraft maintenance expenses. that could move into a different calendar setup for them.
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maybe that's something -- >> all the numbers are up? net income is up issue revenue is up. >> all below expectations. >> yeah, i know. >> does not matter. 168. by the time the market opens, it could be unchanged. >> no, i get why the stock is down. i'm saying, in general, i think you got the wind to the back with fedex at this point. >> right. why it's not up as much as expected, we don't know. >> we assume the economy's cranking. >> oh -- >> here we go. >> sure it is. you see fedex, good, you know, can't put your finger on it. >> country's benefitting from a tax cut of lower oil prices. has to be good. >> a tax cut in this administrati administration? well, but time for good things. it's a kris mat present. a drop in crude, how the price of oil could change relations between the u.s. and russia. they are suggesting a positive
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open.
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>> welcome back, stories front and center, the ruble rebounding after the finance ministry sold currency today. thailand's central bank unchanged at 2% as expected. policymakers say it's low enough to support the weaker than expected economic recovery. online lender, on deck capital, pricing ipo at $20 a share, above the expected range, the offering values the company at 1.3 billion. shares set to trade on the nyse today. >> the oil shock keeping markets on edge now. the price of crude is 54.48, down 2.5%. let's discuss the fallout with kevin buck, managing direct of research at clearview energy partners. this is a quick rebound or here for years, kevin. >> years? joe, are you driving more? >> seeing if you have been dead wrong on the way down from 90
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and whether you're clinging to your mistake or whether -- >> yeah, so without oec demand -- >> have you been caught at 6 5? >> everyone calls the bottom the whole way down and claim they were right the whole way up. >> what about you? >> we have a $75 average for next year, slowing u.s. production, balancing the market, bringing us up from the lows right now. >> are we going to stay here or go up? yes, i drive a car. is that implying that we're going back to 90? >> no. the problem is that demand does not rebound like it used to. we're not a country or even as an economy, the oecd, as a drgrp of countries is not driving more in response to prices. it takes a long time to get that demand response. without gdp demand in asia, you don't get a rebound fast. you need global economic growth to pull it back.
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>> what about the other side? that is whether you drive the price low enough to where suppliers decide it's not economically worthwhile to develop it? how long does that take to happen? >> it's happening now. the latency takes time. that's why you're not seeing it happen right away. we look at the breaking point after the price break in the production picture. here in north america, at four to six months before we start to see a material change. not a reduction in oil production, but a slow down in growth. probably if you look ahead to next year, 75 a barrel a year average takes you down from a million one to 600,000 barrels a day of non-opec growth. >> enter the year at 55 or so, to get to average 75, by the end of next year, we're back up in the 80 area, kevin? >> we come in higher. i don't think we linger too long in the 60s. one of the things that is happening right now is that the financial market moves at the speed of light or near it. oil balances on the open seas in
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two to four week intervals. takes a while to normalize. that shakes out after fourth quarter destocking and inventory rationalization passes. >> took ten years to do it, but we have the notion that 90 is the right price for oil. it's engrained in us. it was top heavy when there. isis was doing all these things, worried about iran and, you know, all kinds of -- and ukraine, all things going on, and it was barely able to hold 90 indicating it was top heavy and supply and demand took it down to where people who should know what they are doing and really know how to make none in this market, they totally missed it. i don't know what to think anymore. i don't know what the fair value is. i don't know where oil should trade for the next five years or average. think a hundred for the next five years or average 55 for the next five years? >> there are rules of thumb m one of them is is that you look
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at the marginal costs here in north america and multiply by three, you have what a typical market price should be. it averages $25 a barrel, and so that implies a $75 barrel. it could be a good forward look at this price. >> if we average 75 in five years, that would recalibrate -- everybody would change models for everything from corporate earnings to gdp for everything to around the world. that would be amazing. i think people have 90 or 95 -- in fact, ge said yesterday, we'd do better at $120. we wish it was $120. it's not. we'll muddle through. people had $120 for an estimate over the next five years as demand always goes higher. it may not happen. which is a huge seat change that we have to think about. >> you're right. >> we count on you to give us the straight dope. i hope you understand that you have weight on your shoulders here.
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>> i carry weight around my waist. i don't know if i can have more on my shoulders. oil causes that, vegetable oil, olive oil. >> despite claims it's healthier. >> right. >> well, thank you. >> thank you, kevin. 75 next year. we'll watch. >> all right. have a great holiday. >> he took it well. >> took what well? >> you giving him a hard time. >> i did not give him a hard time. you still driving? yes, i'm driving a car. i am not walking to work. that was a rhetorical question, wasn't it? you driving three suvs? >> nope, only two. >> and a minivan. when we come back this morning, the ruble after russia stale i stabilized after selling foreign currency reserves. is it enough to avert the crisis? we'll ask a russian policy expert after this. later, the government's read on inflation, telling us what it
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>> the foreign ministry, the finance ministry, brought strength to the ruble overnight, at 65, talked about it going to 79. joining us on what russia can do to avoid a full financial disaster is the foreign policy initiative fellow, and with us, our guest host. good to have you here, kevin. david, 4.5% decline with russia and oil at 60 a barrel, but that was before they raised interest rates to 17%. we are looking at a cratering russian economy. does this change putin's calculus at all in terms of ukraine or give incentive to lift sanctions? >> absolutely it changes the callus. thanks for having me back on the
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show. the question is does it make him more aggressive? what we saw until now is in response to every american's threat, every american promise to impose consequences, only became more aggressive, and he's winning at home because of that thanks to the control of the pr propaganda machine. >> do you believe the polls? you're russian, live in russia, a pollster says, what do you think of putin, will you say anything other than great things? >> may be a bounce, but there's change overtime. it's flux waited and has gone higher. not up in the 80s, but probably more pop pie lar than any american president could hope to be. >> what do we hear tomorrow? more bellicose or more conciliato conciliatory? >> it's the question. his tendency is not to announce aggression in ukraine. he insists it's not russian troops, not russian weapons, shooting down an airliner and kill 300 people, so if he did, he might do it quietly.
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he might say he's been conciliatory and do the opposite. the question is whether he thinks he can gain benefit at home, disdirect people from the economic crisis by stepping it up in ukraine. >> david has a good point, bob. look at the historical fact pattern, he's sounded conciliatory -- been here in the mornings we watch a megarally in the futures because putin said something conciliatory and the mart bought it hook, line, and sinke rerk sinker. >> it's possible he'll be moderate, but look what happened yesterday. the foreign minister said we have the right to station nuclear weapons in crimea because it's now part of russia. i don't think they will buy the notion it's all the fault of the americans and the foreigners, that the russian have problems because of those abroad.
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that's what he's trying to do. basically, i don't think he'll make major positive changes, vis-a-vis ukraine. he uses the nationalistic heart in a very clever way. i don't know that it'll last forever, but he'll try it for the time being, but russians are feeling pain now, and he can't fool them forever. this is a problem caused by lower oil prices and caused by, in part, by sanctions. >> gentlemen, thank you so much for having you on. we'll watch that speech tomorrow to see what exactly he says. >> huh. all right. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, five russian stocks that trade here that are getting hurt, and later, a top strategist from fidelity and top economist from morgan stanley. we'll talk russia, and, of course, the fed, and the dramatic swings that we have seen in a lot of markets when we return. ] your love for trading never stops, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 even on the go. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 open a schwab account, and you could earn tdd# 1-800-345-2550 300 commission-free online trades.
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welcome back. let's talk specifics of how companies with russian exposure are fairing right now. we have more on that. >> it's tongue tieing to say the least. look at the russian stocks trading here in the united states. it's impressive how big moves have been to the downside. we highlighted them. vimpelcom, a technology company with a lot of russian business down 3% yesterday, down now 75% year to date, a huge move.
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look here, another big one is yandex, and internet search engine, the google of russia, down 5% yesterday, down 61% year to date. moving to another one, a big one, mobile telesystems down 11% yesterday, down 71% year to date, and another huge one, qiwi, the paypal of russia. it was down 13% yesterday, and down 66% so far year to date. a lot of these moves near what's been happening with russian companies that have exposure to all of that type of business, and just to show you one more, the rsx, the etf that tracks the russian market. look at that. year to date, lost half its value. this is how people play the market, but overall, those are tickers, the etf, and they have been hurt hard in the latest turmoil. back to you. >> all the stocks priced in dollars, right? >> yes. >> that's why we see an even bigger decline than normal because of ruble as well. >> that's rights. >> all right, thank you. our guest host this hour, bob,
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if you're really looking through trying to figure out how to make sense of all of this, words of wisdom right now? >> have investors look beyond the immediate crisis. this, obviously, had a major n effect on high yield debt, and general markets have been royaled by this and disrupted, but over a period of time, the knee jerk reactions will give way to a much more granular look at this. in other words, a lot of companies will be big beneficiaries of lower oil prices. a lot of consumers will benefit, and they'll have more money to spend on other things. a lot of countries, if you look around the world, are beneficiaries of this, the united states included. that helps japan, korea, indonesia. >> it's not 1998 all over again in. >> it's not. 1998, you had a lot of ripple effects in part because
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countries kept their currencies for a long time fixed and used up all the foreign exchange defending currencies. that's a big problem. >> that's not happening now? >> not happening now, deciding not to waste their money by defending currencies indefensible at that point because they were over valued. many countries did not have a lot of reserves, countries learned the lessons of 1997 and 1998, and many now have more reserves. investers have to take a look beyond headlines and beyond panic and look at individual companies, who benefits, who loses, countries who benefits and loses, and even in the oil sector, there's some companies that are well able to sustain this low oil price period for a long period of time. >> a huge bubble, not just in internet, but in the ge trading 50 times earnings. much higher valuations. >> in the oil patch, oil sector, some are in good shape, they have low cost wells, and other
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companies have a lot of leverage. they will be hurt, and companies that are drilling in peripheral areas, the drilling costs are expensive, they are hurt. investors have to look beyond the knee jerk and specifics and losses to be avoided. >> thank you for joining us. coming up, russian currency intervention brings strength to the ruble. a live report from moscow next. the holiday season is here,
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>> investors hone in today on yellen to see what the fed may or may not say and do amid the ruble route, and weighing in along with guest host of fidelity. >> middle east tension back on the rise. will the markets stay focused on the global economy or turn attention back to geopolitical concerns? we find out. hailing a ride from uber, why china's largest search engine makes a ride service app. the final hour of "squawk box" begins right now. welcome back to "squawk box" here on cnbc, first in business
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worldwide, i'm joe with michelle caruso-cabrera, and andrew is out today. feeling the pain of the falling ruble, swings of business, ap e apple, more on that and the russian crisis in a minute, and becky, we'll open the christmas cards from tim cook. >> that's right. >> at some point. >> all right. here this morning, let's get to the headlines. russia taking steps today to sell foreign currency from the leftover stock boosting the ruble today. it's a relative term. the ruble is 65, much better than the 79 we saw yesterday, but if we go back just a month, this is a precipitous decline for the ruble. decision day at the fed, wrapping up a two day meeting, and they are expected to tweak the language in the statement and remove that phrase, considerable time. the statement with an updated forecast is due at 2:00 p.m.
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eastern. a half hour later, yellen fields questions from the media, and another economic headline of note, mortgage applications fell in the latest week as interest rates fell to the lowest level since may of 2013. less than 90 minutes away from the opening bell on wall street. futures suggest we're going to have a positive open. right now, we are higher by, well, ten points with the s&p 500, and let's show you what's going on with oil, such a big driver of the major averages, and overseas margtkets as well. we are lower by 2%, and wti lower by 2.5%, 54.50 per barrel. look at markets in europe at this hour. weaker across the board. other than greece, which, by the way has a presidential election today. we'll wait to see the outcome of that. the gain does not make up for the losses seen over the last several months. >> stocks on the move this morning, earnings at fedex short of estimates. shy of where wall street was,
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and the package delivery giant's full year guidance was short of where the current consensus was, but the company said it was affirming or reaffirming its own guidance of 850 to 9 dollars, although the street is at something like 9.14. for whatever the reason, it's not recovered yesterday, 166.74 asked. the last trade down 4% for general express. general mills beat the street, fighting weak demand, slowing growth in europe and canada, but as a result, we have the stock up about 1% so far this morning. i want to see if the transportation average or dow -- whether futures weakened. that's a big move. 4%. >> almost triple digits, though. >> and the dow up. we'll see. apple has halted online sales of the iphones, ipads, and other products in russia amid the financial turmoil triggered by the decline of the country's
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currency. the ruble plunged 20% yesterday even at russia's central bank increased interest rates sharply. by sharply, 650 basis points. the ruble's value fell 60% since january. the instability made it too difficult to set its prices in russia. that prompted the closure of the online store there. let's check in on russia now after the week's wild ride. the ruble trading at 65 and the russian stock market, remember, we always show you the dollar stock market because as an american investor, that's how you purchase the mark. it looks bad because you have the ruble decline along with the stock decline. as you can see, right now, it's a little higher for the rtfs based in dollars. let's see how it impacts life in moscow. jeff? >> reporter: hey, you know what? i think the russian authorities have pretty much drawn this to a mexican standoff throughout the day. if you are just catching up with the story, i'll remind you how
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events unfolded here. after the dramatic hike in interest rates, we had an emergency cabinet meeting. the prime minister called together the finance minister, the economy minister, head of the central bank to work out plan to intervene in the market more aggressively. that's where that $7 billion number comes from that the finance ministry has been using to intervene into currenciecurr. the central bank put another $2 billion into the game, and within the last couple hours, the prime minister has, again, had a meeting, this time, he's met with energy companies' ceos and mining company businesses. the message is we will do what we have to do at this point to try and arrest this very rapid decline in the ruble, and look at the numbers now. it looks like the market's come to a dead heat here, and, actually, there is buying back into some russian stocks, which would indicate, i guess, that greed is overtaking fear a little here.
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whenever way you paint it, people in russia are worried about this very rapid decline seen in the currency, and that's why you have had people cueing up in electronic stores and going to car dealerships to try and pick up assets that they think may hold their value or keep them ahead of inflation in this game. it's been a very long and difficult day here for the government, but i think they may feel that they are getting ahead of this story for once. becky, let me send it to you. >> all right, jeff, thank you very much. again, jeff is live in moscow as we get into the late afternoon there. russia's now near the top of the list of hot spots on the feds' radar. today, yellen wraps up a two day meeting and faces the media for the quarterly news conference. they go through oil to jobs to inflation. joining us with more on today's big event is the chief u.s. economist at morgan stanley, and with us is our guest host for the hour, from fidelity
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investments. fed officials yesterday and today are in meeting trying to figure out what to do next. they can't help but be impacted by the news from russia. how does that play into the decision making process? >> less than you think. you have to remember that they negotiate most aspects of the fomc statement last week. they nail that down, and when they make their remarks at the meeting, they are generally prepared over the weekend. it's scripted. >> they are not data dependent? looking at old information, making decisions and then they stick with them? >> they are that dependent on making decisions, meaning by meeting based on the incoming flow of ma crow data, not necessarily the last couple ticks in financial markets. they try to smooth through that. remember a few meetings ago when janet yellen said, oh, monthly cpi, that's noise.
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she was sincere. i think they try to smooth through macro data, and that because of the inertia in policymaking, don't respond as quickly as maybe they should to late breaking news. >> vince, i have to ask you this. we had a number of people on the show over the last two days suggesting that the world will be watching what janet yellen says now. this is almost a political game, suggesting it's the american government's response to what's happened in russia, and if it sounds like we are really talking about raising rates sooner rather than later, if the fed sounds dead set on that, and that in turn, pushes the dollar up, the russian ruble down, that could have global implications. is that something janet is thinking about before she talks at the conference today? >> janet yellen conducts monetary policy, not foreign policy. i think they are pretty much domestic centric. that they'll try to do is stay away from mentioning weakness abroad. she'll try to avoid strenuously
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in the press conference, having an opinion on the exchange value of the dollar. we'll probably here that's the purview of the secretary of treasury, and most likely what's going to happen is the opening statement at the press conference will be longer than usual because that crowds out questions. >> if that's the case, if yellen does not address this, how does the market read it? tone deaf to the market, or does it sound reassuring to think they only think about domestic issues? >> ei think the market realizes the fed is looking at the whole picture, but, you know, the fed is looking at the economy that is growing at a decent clip. inflation nonexistent lapsing to 1%, but that could be because of oil prices, and the market is giving the fed a pass to raise rates to some degree. if you look at the fed funds futures curve, that says the fed starts mid-2015 and goes to about 2% over the subsequent two years.
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so the fed has a free option to normalize rates to some degree. it has to be careful not to go faster than the market expects or more aggressively, and i think the risk of that is very small considering how low inflation has fallen. >> would you agree that the swift has potentially changed over two days? that rush that and putin, in particular, are going to be watching this very closely. the ruble stabilized. if the dollar strengthens, that could throw that entire thing out of whack again. look at market swings of 700 points yesterday. >> yes. if the fed does something that's more hawkish than what the market expects, then that would be dollar positive. that would be em negative. i doubt that the fed's going to do that. i mean, already, the majority of economists think the fed is going to remove considerable time from the language. i'm not convinced they will. a lot of this is already priced in. >> it's a nonevent for the markets today?
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>> if the fed stays on course, if they drop the words "considerable time," and people think that manes they raise rates in march, that's a negative, but i don't think the fed's going to do that. >> what's the first increase be? >> nobody knows. i'm guessing 25. >> with 330 print on employment and 5.8% up employment. anyone in the world that doesn't think they need to do that? no matter what? >> yeah. the fed has a free pass from the market to normalize rates to 2%. >> yeah. we're at 0. >> there's a lot of people who actually don't think they should, that the world is deflationary. >> that's people that love the dual mandate. that's as if the fed's job is to generate full employment, which is a screwy way of thinking about what the fed should be doing anyway. it should be price stability. they are so far -- bill is --
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gross is almost as far left. >> okay. >> ask when he's on. he's over there too. >> fed takes cues from the markets, and as long as they don't go ahead where the markets are, i think that, you know, it'll be okay. >> vince, forget about the fed for a minute and figure out what you think about the u.s. economy. the 330,000 print with the jobs number, people question whether that stands because of the seasonal adjustments. how strong do you think things are here? how prone are we to any sort of contagious from problems around the globe? >> so the seasonals may not have picked it up, but the u.s. economy is performing very well. basically, the oil price declines have saved our forecast that there would be a pick up in growth, and that's because consumption growth, weaker than everybody expects, much slower
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than disposable income. we are a big producer of energy, but we are a bigger consumer. that's a direct bonus to households they spend in a time in which seasonal demands are the highest. we have a strong fourth quarter, strong first quarter, but there's pay back in terms of capital spending. those energy producers are not going to be able to fund ambitions to continue to build out the oil and gas extraction industry, and so that means that the profile of gdp growth next year is going to be downward slope. higher at the front end, front part of the year, slowing is the cap x toll takes its weight. >> at $60 oil, it's to the point where it's no longer just a net benefit to consumption. that affects capital spending, and you see this in the high yield market where the energy sector spreads have blown out. >> using west texas intermedi e
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intermediate. we use 55. 55, you say 55 as long as you're here, okay? call me rick perry. >> yes, sir. >> thank you for joining us. great having you. >> thanks for having me. >> our guest host is here for the hour. >> where is brent? >> a few dollars higher. >> no, where is brent? we're in west texas here. where are you from? >> aruba and the netherlands. >> they don't pronounce j's there. >> no, silent. >> jeb bush, did you catch that? >> oh, i like that! that's good. >> the first step to the run after the break. and our squawk market master joining us live. later, terror and the taliban back front and center. how will this impact markets and your money? squawk's going to be right back. (trader vo) i search. i research. i dig. and dig some more.
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welcome back, shares of joy global under pressure, this is the mining equipment maker, beating the street, forecast is short, warning of a challenging quarter, more than 60% of the
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revenues come from coal miners, and they are cutting production. >> very, very good. jeb bush, and present is a bird. >> it is, but it's also the formation layers of the original brent oil field. >> okay. jeb bush all be announcing his run for presidential, but exploring a run for the white house and race for 2016. that's a big part of the latest nbc "wall street journal" telemundo poll. we have the details. how many things? i saw a bunch of interesting things, john. i wonder which ones you'll talk about. this morning, walking in on the sister channel, i saw, what, 70% of the people want the next president to have a different method of acting than president obama, was that the question? what was it? like a 70% number. >> yes, different approach. >> 70% want a different appro h approach. >> exactly. that's, to me, the dominant
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figure of the survey. >> okay. >> what we show is a slight rise in optimism since the election. people like the fact that it's behind us, but as they look ahead to 2016, 23% of the american people say they want the next president to take the same approach as president obama. 71% say a different approach. those are almost precisely the numbers that we saw for president bush at a similar point at the end of his -- towards the end of his presidency. we tested the candidates and saw interesting results. the better known you are, the more negatives you have. when we tested hillary clinton and jeb bush, there's 50% of the american people saying, yeah, i can see myself voting for hillary clinton, but 48% say they couldn't. >> high negative. >> on jeb bush, there's a third of the people say, yeah, i can see myself voting for him, but almost 60% say, no, they couldn't. that's part of the hangover of the bush name.
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also in negative territory, rand recall, chris christie, mike huk be huckabee. they start out with baggage in the race, but the one overarching thing that's clear is this is going to be a change election, and that's probably good for republicans, joe. >> okay. john, i'm not sure where to take it now. i mean, i -- maybe i'll throw it out there without commentary. 51% said water boarding was okay? 28% said it went too far. >> exactly. not water boarding per se, but when we talk about -- >> the enhanced interrogation. >> exactly. the techniques that have been in the news. i don't know how much people appreciated what those were, but the point is the american public does not share the sense of outrage that the democrats did -- >> that the mainstream media -- i watched it the way it was presented. the new york times, this is, like, yesterday was like the fifth day in a row where torture
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was in the headline in the right side of the paper, where -- i mean -- i read a piece -- >> this is true for a long time, joe. >> i know, but there was a great piece by a guy in the post, if the new york times can occupy a position of moral superiority, they run with it, but they're talking to a country that's at 51-28, john. >> look, our surveys consistently since 9/11, we've showed that the american people favor a forward leaning approach to this, which is what the bush administration did. >> right. >> now, that does not mean that what the bush administration did was wright or wrong. >> i know. >> but it is an indication that democrats have only so far they can push on this issue as a political matter because the
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further they push, the more they lead the american people. >> brett stevens had a great piece. he cut off pearl's head. >> i'm aware of that. >> saying it's my sacred right arming and he's still around. the president, himself, we've dropped a few drones where there may have been some unintended consequences as well, and the guys we drop them on, we were not just trying to water board them. i think we're trying to kill them, are we not? >> yes. now, look, obviously, the question, joe, and, you know, it takes a -- everyone comes to their own conclusion -- >> right, i know. >> the question is how far do you go before you become what you're fighting against? >> i hear you, and i hear mccain too, and i listened to john mccain, respect him, and i respect that opinion, but i did not realize our troops, though, when they are trained where this might be done, they have actually -- we've shown them what that's like. they have been trained to be
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able to withstand a water boarding. >> yes. >> if you use the word "torture" for water boarding, what new term to you use for what we know goes on in other parts of the world? do you need a better term for that? there's a difference between that and, you know, cattle prods or, you know. >> shades of gray. >> there's a lot of flavors of torture. >> huh? >> there's -- torture comes in a lot of flavors. >> it must. it must, john. i don't want to get into it. >> but you did. >> i already did. i don't have any feelings myself. but, john, thank you. that's why i love polls, but i think we get polls where we go, woah, let's do it again. mainstream media polls, that's not what we thought. >> wait, hold -- what do you mean mainstream media? >> we need new people. that's not the answers we want. >> john, you tell us exactly what we want. >> anyway -- >> we are mainstream media. >> damn right, you are.
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>> you are mainstream media. >> speak for yourself. love you. see you later. >> coming up, the interview new york city premier cancelled. that's the sony hack. french fry rations.
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mcdonalds rations fries in japan. >> really? >> forget -- >> i can see this. >> consumers will now only be able to order a small size fry.
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the burger chathis shortage ste labor dispute that has yet to be resolved. this is the unions causing the shortage? >> do that here. worry about same store sales? try putting rationing on fries, and there will be -- >> hording. >> yes. >> graarage sale attire. >> i agree. >> a big mac is now 42 cents cheaper. see how the rationing will affect overall sales. >> we have to go supposedly. did you say pp? >> i did.
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breaking news, november's cpi down more than expected at down three tenths. last month's unchanged was unchanged. look at x, food and energy, and we know the latter has an accent symbol on it nowadays, up one tenths and last month's two tenths remain. year over year, headline, 1.7 core, you can argue that the 1.3 is a little cooler than we were
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expected, but when you compare it to last look at 1.7, that totally makes sense. 1.7 on core year over year beating expectations at last look. third quarter, a bigger deficit than expected, the larger cousin of the trade deficit, minus 103 billion, and last month, there was a revision from 98.5 as a deficit to 98.4. in summation, i don't know if it's a surprise that we're not seeing the type of inflationary issues considering the environment we are in, considering dropping prices potentially making other economies more productive, but the energy note is a dropping price that will ring truer downs road. it's just the time line is not the same. the impact on credit and corporate finance is immediate. the benefits to everybody else in all the economies that need energy, which is pretty much all the economies, will probably take more time to accrue, and
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we'll continue to watch the market battle exactly how the payoff, the deficit, the credits, and the timeline all play out as we go into year end. interest rates? back up a little bit, 209, 210, keep in mind that we dabbled with 2% yesterday. joe, we talked about getting close to the water line. we continue to pay attention to the range and the close from october 15. back to you. >> rick, did leisman ask you for help for questions for janet yellen today? did you get any e-mails from him asking for any questions? any suggested questions? >> no, no, no, no, but i think -- >> do you have any? >> there's a lot of appropriate questions. if i had a question, it's an easy one, an easy one. do they not have any confidence in the u.s. economy? do they regret -- they did not normalize rates and recalibrate them closely to reality in the past because it looks as though -- >> i'm thinking dictations, taking dictations, sending this to him.
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all right, steve got leisman. >> that brings up how the benefits comes in slowly. people anticipated fedex -- >> saying aircraft maintenance? >> moving them into a different timeline than expected. remember, this closed weeks ago, the quarter, so you'll continue to see it as we get in the quarter now. >> the gasoline prices, there is a lag how quickly they catch up to falling crude. >> joe, you talked about the issue of the dual mandate. these numbers could speak to the other half of the dual mandate, not the full employment, but the inflation part, right? >> some people think i'm crazy to question it, like everywhere else in the world, but it's the only place done that way. >> heard from greenspan saying they completely ignored that aspect. >> joe, do you read the text? >> huh? >> in 2011 when commodity prices spiked, the market expected the
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fed to respond to that, and the fed looked through it, it was transit, and they were right. i expect the fed's looking through this as well saying, you know, this is a temporary shock to the cpi. >> all right. >> thanks, rick. >> let's get to steve leisman in washington, d.c. steve? >> yeah, i heard rick's question -- [ laughter ] >> you didn't ask him for help, steve? >> no, i don't need help from rick, but i like listening to him. i don't know why i'd ask the question why they didn't normalize. look at the numbers, it's a good thing we did not normalize. although, the guest host's right comment is the right one. you have food and energy up as expected, so the year over year on the core is still 1.7. looking down into the details of this report, you do have this apparel down 1.1%. i'm looking at things not related to energy necessarily. recreation, also a negative as well.
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education communications down 0.1. maybe there's some concern. i guess a fed that's worried about deflation or disinflation more so than it is worried about inflation at the moment is going to look at this and say, you know what? there's something to look at here. be careful. i still think it's a close call, but that considerable time comes out based on this report, but i think you could see yellen walking back a little bit, whatever hawkish tilt there is to that part of the statement in the press conference with dovish remarks there. >> okay. steve, i just -- i don't know. because you're a dual mandate guy. i guess you mean in terms -- even as a dual mandate, there's 330,000 jobs, 5.8% unemployment. >> right. >> if you're dual mandate guy, unemployment at 0 -- you don't see any merit in asking that question to janet yellen, that at 0% after six years, you couldn't be just up a little bit? just so that we know if you give
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money to someone you get something in return, you should be at 0 with 5.8. >> joe, it is a valid question. >> you said it was not with poor rick. >> maybe because he's crazy. maybe it came from rick, maybe if you had said it -- >> that's why i brought it up, actually. you know that. >> no, i know. that's fair. here's the question. i think what they are doing is you think about the taper tantrum, and that change to markets there. you know the fed wants to avoid it. you know where they want to go. there was that important speech by bill dudley that takes cue from the markets and get the markets to a place where we think we should be. they don't see a hurry here, joe. >> no, i know. >> they look at the numbers, they not concerned, and they see considerable slack. labor market. >> anything other than just price stability, give them the mandate for it, suddenly, they are justified in thinking that everything is on their shoulder.
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i'd rather have it on the private sector's shout lders. i don't want it on their shoulders, then they think it's their responsibility how it's been for years. >> we have a running attack on the counter factual. now we do, it's europe. following the single mandate. that single inflation -- >> look at the problems though. would you try to start a business over there? would you try to be an entrepreneur over there? >> depends if i have a nice place to live. i'd like to live in some of those countries, two hour coffee lunches. >> they work to live, and we live to work, but whatever. >> joe, their balance sheet declined, terrible growth and inflation numbers. we kept ours growing. we have better growth numbers. >> maybe because of the -- we really are exceptional here as is our way of life. >> true. it's a multivaried equation.
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>> belgiums think they are exceptional, and, you know, a lot of others -- >> we talked last week, is it a done deal to raise rates in 2015? you said pretty much yes, but we now had two prominent people say not necessarily. look at the inflation numbers, based on the dual mandate, put aside employment, put aside inflation, it's not what the fed likes, right? is it possible they don't raise rates next year? >> you know, i just heard -- we have no time left. sorry, steve. we have three minutes, and then we need to talk -- >> i'll e-mail you the answer. >> got it. >> he -- surely -- the price stability, get rid of that. it should be all juicing the economy, according to him. three teams dominating, fed, oil price plunge, and russia's ruble collapse, and yellen, listening to what she'll have to say. here she comes, here she comes in a big, fancy suv. her carbon footprint is fairly
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large right now. >> two of them. >> that's a greenspan and bernanke came in one of those. i was not mocking you as a former ceo and coast-cio of pimco, but you're a believer in the dual mandate? fed's job to help the economy? >> caller: good morning, joe. actually, i believe in three mandates. >> of course. >> caller: the third one is financial stability. >> my question -- >> caller: one you share which is that at some point, we got to normalize monetary policy, otherwise we encourage excessive risk taking. on balance, if i were them, take out a considerable period of time. there's risk of inflation, but above that, the economy is growing broadly, and it's time to take stimulus out of the market and allow the market to stay on its own feet. >> allowing you to stay dovish.
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330,000 jobs, 5.8% unemployment, and we're at 0. you want to remove wording? >> remove wording in order to move on rates in the middle of next year, okay? i think the fed tried to be transparent. it cannot leapfrog immediately to a rate hike, so, yeah, remove it now, and i think they will hike in the middle of next year. >> what do you think of what's happening with russia in, you know, that results from oil prices, but what's your view of the world right now? >> caller: so my view of the world is one word -- divergence in economic performance, big differences within the advanced world, but also across the globe, and also divergence in policy, and the result of that is massive foreign exchange volatility, and as we have discovered this sort of volatility tends to break things, so, you know, remember
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the wordy ver je divergence. russia is in crisis that feeds on itself, leads to capital flight and risk of further instability, but it's not 1998. i agree with bob. this is not 1998. >> well, i got through the interview and had, like, 30 seconds left for you -- for the intro, that was like back where you went to college. >> you get longer if you're on camera than shorter? >> i guess so. so they removed considerable time, and they go up just 25 basis points, and the market can handle that? that's the bottom line? >> caller: yes. >> we'll have you on longer. we 4, you know, with steve and other things going on, but thank you for joining us, and we'll speak again. the middle east focused in the markets after a horrific attack in pakistan. we'll talk geopolitical
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attentions after the break. the maker of china's largest search engine hails uber for investment. we'll be right back. [ breathing deeply ]
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breathe a little easier. introducing cvs health. because health is everything. two serious terrorist events puts isis front and center again this week. sydney, rattling nerves, and yesterday, the horrific scene in pakistan, the taliban killed 140
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people, mostly children, injurying countless others in the school attack. these events shine the white hot spotlight on the turmoil in the middle east and potential spread of terrorism. here to help us navigate the road ahead is david gordon, president of international capital strategies, a former diplomat and intelligence officer. good to have you here. what should we make of the two w horrific event, a sign they are better organized and doing more? will we see more of them coming? >> well, i do think that extremism is on the rise, and it's on the rise in a much more vicious form. i think the australian event is -- that's sort of a different category, but what we're seeing in both the middle east in syria, in iraq with isis, in afghanistan, pakistan, and in nigeria is the emergence of the very vicious groups who give very little weight to the taking of human life.
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so i think, yes, we are in a period where these kinds of attacks are going to be more common. >> what are the chances that it happens here again? >> i think that the big difference with the new radicalism, with the new extremism is actually it's much more locally focused. that the today's jihadists are all about gaining political control and political domination this their local areas, so in some sense, this is a different approach than bin laden who put all of his attention on attacking the west. it's not impossible that the west gets take e attacked, but what we will mainly see is he's these attacks against local adversaries. that was the attack yesterday. this was not a general school. this was a school for children of army personnel serving up in
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northwest pakistan, which is a center of radicalism and jihadism in pakistan. >> if we think the attacks are more in the local regions, what should the american policy response be? >> well, i think that the danger here is these groups over time could reformulate their approach, and, again, attack us. we have to be working with the pakistani authorities, with the groups in iraq, with nigeria to help build up their capabilities and to help promote a counter jihad movement really globally. these jihadists are also much more tech savvy. they are using social media. this is a real challenge. >> david, good to have you on, david gordon is his name. more on the topic in a momentings bmoment,
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but thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> making an investment in uber, a sign that the push into china is serious. we'll have the details right after this. ♪ oh what fun it is to ride. get the mercedes-benz on your wish list at the winter event going on now - but hurry, the offer ends december 31st. [ho, ho, ho!] lease the 2015 c300 4matic for $419 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer.
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welcome back, everybody. new threats from those claiming responsibility for the hack attack against sony pictures studios. the group is now making threats against movie theaters that are set to show the comedy movie "the interview." department of homeland security officials say they're aware of the threat, that there's no credible intelligence to indicate an active plot against movie theaters. the new york premiere of this movie has already been canceled. a strategic investment in uber. the app launched in china this year. beijing has come to the u.s. making a rare on-set appearance. good to have you here. >> thanks for having me. yeah, no, the whole uber story is really, really interesting. a lot of people saying this is a very important strategic move for uber because it's been getting so much criticism in other developing markets. now it's partnered up with probably one of the most powerful companies in china. so difficult regulatory
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environment, difficult political environment, have a powerful partner. expand. >> i'm going to an uncomfortable spot right now. the chinese government wants to know about uber's location abilities. that's a big question. >> that is a big question mark. but in terms of uber itself, i mean, a lot of people wonder about uber's foothold in china right now. they have a pretty good reputation compared to the other two. right now there isn't a whole lot of -- i don't know how to say this politely -- service culture in the taxi worlds. a lot of people still sleep in their taxis or you hope you don't get run over by a taxi. so with uber -- >> so low barrier to entry is what you're saying. >> and high demand from a frustrated consumer. >> they've instituted a rating system for their drivers. >> just like here. >> and people are surprised. when you take an uber car, the driver gets out and opens the door for you. they ask you, can you rate me as
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a five-star driver? so that's a really surprising thing. a lot of people see the drivers as more reliable. they see the drivers as better. now because they have that big data map system that they're going to integrate into the uber service, that's one way that the drivers will be able to get around even better than they have. so it's seen as a good one, yeah. >> maybe not facing the same sort of hurdles that we've seen in other countries around the globe that are saying, wait a second, we're not sure about this competition. >> no, not yet. >> a huge positive. >> yeah, it is. any other questions? >> i'm interested in the other -- not baidu. anything jack ma, i'm interested at this point. >> so that was the other part. what's interesting is that people right now are talking about this as the latest maneuver in the battle of the three kingdoms. >> have you interviewed him yet?
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>> these three players in the internet, they're all getting into each other's space. alibaba has a competitor to uber now in the taxi space. it basically means, like, fast cab. so you can see that jack ma has got a lot of investment, and he's putting it into different areas. >> is he around? does he hang out? have you interviewed him? >> yeah, i've interviewed him. he doesn't really hang around. he's kind of high profile. >> i asked you about the night life in beijing. he's not out surrounded by well wishers, so to speak? >> actually, he probably is. i doubt he'd be going to any nightclub. he's very recognizable. >> yes, he is. and very focused on business. it's different here. the celebrity culture we have over here for ceos, is it the same? >> well, what do you mean? >> over here there's sort of a celebrity culture. >> sorry to break in. just real quick, alan gross has
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been released by cuba after five years in prison. this has been a big case. this will get talked a lot about in general media. there's talk about whether there's reproachment between cuba and the united states. >> is that a french word? >> i don't know. steve leesman told me i had to say it. >> is it a spanish word? >> i don't know. >> your pronunciation of spanish, i defer to you. this one i'm not sure. sabotage, yogurt. anyway. >> how long you here for? >> couple more days. i'll be here tomorrow and friday as well. >> hopefully we'll get to see a lot of you. thank you. when we come back this morning, what you need to be listening to for from janet yellen this afternoon. and a quick programming note for you. general electric chairman and ceo jeff immelt will be coming
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up on "squawk on the street." we'll be right back. event. right now, for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a new volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta and the precisely engineered passat tdi. ah, the gift of clean diesel. for the new volkswagen on your list this year, just about all you need, is a pen. festive, isn't it? get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first month's payment on select new volkswagen models. take aand... exhale...in... aflac! and a gentle wavelike motion... ahhh-ahhhhhh. liberate your spine... ahhh-ahhhhhh...aflac! and reach, toes blossoming... not that great at yoga. yeah, but when i slipped a disk he paid my claim in just four days. ahh! four days? yep. see why speed matters, at aflac.com.
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(shouting) location. here's the location that matters the most. here. or here. or here. it's wherever this is. to get customers to come here and stay here, you're going to need an app that connects to all your systems. so they can bank, shop, do what they need to do, and you gotta do it fast. before the competition does. it's tough out here; you better be on the right cloud. today there's a new way to work. and it's made with ibm. welcome back. breaking news. a senior obama administration official telling the a.p. that cuba has released american alan gross, who's been in prison
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there for five years. he was a development worker who was put in prison there. i don't think it's a stretch that this is possibly related to the decline in oil. remember, cuba gets 100,000 barrels per day from venezuela. that oil has to be at risk in this situation because they desperately need to get paid actual cash, venezuela does, that could be leading to cuba to doing some kind of improving of relations with the united states. >> that makes sense. we've seen a lot of fallout from oil prices. what would you expect from here? what are your thoughts that you would tell people if they're looking to figure out what to do in the markets? >> for investors, the question is always the same. we started the year with negative headlines out of em. it was china's shadow loans. we're ending the year with negative headlines out of em. the question i always ask is, is this systemic for investors? is this systemic to the u.s. economy? like we were talking about earlier, we are getting down to levels where it does start to hurt the economy and not just help it through lower gas prices. but other than that, you know,
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the problems in russia -- russia is the u.s.'s 28th largest trading partner. there's not a direct impact with the ruble. so i think the u.s. economy is doing well. the fed will start raising rates around mid year. they'll go slow. >> thank you. >> thanks. >> all right. make sure you join us tomorrow. "squawk on the street" is next. ♪ good wednesday morning. welcome to "squawk on the street." i'm carl quintanilla with david faber at the new york stock exchange. cramer is going to join us in a few minutes. green on the screen after yesterday's failed rally. day two of russia's attempts to stabilize the ruble, which has, in fact, strengthened just slightly from yesterday's lows. oil has settled back below 55. ten year is below 2.10. cpi does come in cool, the biggest drop in six years. fed statement just five hours

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