tv Squawk Box CNBC March 31, 2017 6:00am-9:01am EDT
i believe that's a thousand billion dollars. friday, march 31, 2017. tomorrow is april 1st, april fools' day, "squawk box" begins right now. ♪ live from new york where business never sleeps, this is "squawk box." good morning. welcome to "squawk box." we are live from the nasdaq market site in times square. i'm becky quick along with joe kernen. andrew is off today. sitting in with us is joe terranova. good morning. >> beckgood morning, becky. good morning, joe. >> you have that high and tight today? >> i do.
>> drop 20! >> i said take all the gray out, this is what happened. >> high and tight. certainly cheat the wind if you go out on a motorcycle. man, no drag whatsoever. >> how come you didn't mention this until we went on air. >> no jacket, you're happy with that at least. >> i'm happy with that. the whole look is clean today. >> good. good. you didn't answer my question, are you ready for baseball sunday night? >> have you focussed on -- i'm focused on saturday night. >> basketball? >> yeah. >> is it saturday or friday? it's saturday, isn't it. >> not tonight. >> saturday, both games. >> yeah. >> i still have north carolina. >> good. >> then i'm hoping south carolina beats gonzaga, so all the people who have gonzaga do not win the bracket. then it's a north carolina and south carolina -- >> so you're rooting for yourself and against everybody else. >> in life and in the brackets,
yes. >> it is the last trading day of the quarter. right now it looks like the futures are indicating a lower open. dow futures down by 41 points. s&p 500 is off by five. nasdaq down by 11. overnight, in asia. you'll see that the nikkei was down by 0.8%. so was the hang seng. shanghai was higher, up about 0.4%. in the early trading, in europe this morning, you will see right now things are a little bit weaker. though the dax is flat. the cac is off by a quarter percent. the ftse off by a half percent. the ten-year yield, which was below -- was above 2.4% yesterday, closed at 2.418% this morning. sitting at 2.25%. crude oil prices yesterday were up, today down about 16 points. still above $50, $50.19. personal income and spending numbers are out at 8:30 a.m.
eastern. followed by march chicago pmi at 9:45. the final read on march consumer sentiment at 10:00 a.m. also, you know, i was going to talk about baseball for a second. i said i should do these important stories. and then i'm reading them, it's like oo like -- i can talk just for a second. i'm from cincinnati. >> that's why you don't want to talk. >> they need to show me they're competitive. i'm hopeful. >> >> yyou sound like a fair weathered fan. >> they're still my team. who are you? >> i'm a yankees fan, but i don't root against the mets, and this looks like it could be the mets season. >> i like sicindesyndergaard. he put on a lot of weight. looks like thor. >> how about you? >> i'm a mets guy. >> i would be a mets guy, however they're a team i don't
like but i'm a reds fan. >> most people don't like excellence. >> don't like what? >> excellence. >> jealous? >> when it's bought and paid for. instead of developed. used to be. i'm still mad at the way it happened in the '70s. we still killed you in '76. >> yes, you did. but that led to a -- >> what am i living on? 40 years? >> fumes. >> 41 years ago. fed guys are talking today. hold the presses. neel kashkari is going to say something. then st. louis fed president james bullard will say something. that's why i didn't think i needed necessarily to rush into this without the baseball talk. and then last night you probably already know this, how you could miss it, new york fed president william dudley say interest rate hikes are appropriate to reduce the risks of overheating. he also argued that even after
the hike earlier this month, the federal funds rate remains inushi unusually low. dudley believes fiscal policy is likely to become more stimulative, but said there is consideribility uncertainty for those policies and their potential contribution to the economy. >> man, are you selling it. you are selling it. >> i did say anything at all? >> you left out the ecb. if you want to go there. >> i don't think so. let's go to washington. president trump is expected to sign two executive orders today aimed at trade. one calls for a study of past trade agreements looking at whether they delivered on promised benefits. the second order designed to improve the collection of penalties for other countries illegally dumping goods. yesterday wilbur ross told cnbc that the trump administration wants to formally start the nafta renegotiation grags pproc
before congress goes into the april recess. secretary ross will join us this morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern. the president also tweeted this china meeting will be tough. it will be tough and we can no longer just sit there and be flooded with cheap goods if it hurts. >> if it hurts the jobs picture. foreshadowing like that. i don't think he did that with germany, even when he handed them a bill for what they owe for nate to. nato. >> will be a difficult conversation, and it will be largely be about north korea. >> i'm glad tomorrow is april fools. a lot of times you forget, someone comes in, does something, you are not thinking about it, you fall for t or you see, like, a newspaper or something, it is like, totally fake news. but i see it every day in the "new york times" and "washington post" any way. how will i know the difference
between an april 1st fake news and just what they put out every day? >> you know what i hate about the fake news story, it erodes confidence in every institution we have. the idea that we don't believe anything anybody says. if we don't like something somebody says, you call it fake news. that's what bothers me about the fake news scenario. i used it the other day and was joking around about it, the more i think about it, it drives me crazy. >> don't call anything cnbc does fake news. >> but it erodes our faith in institutions, in congress, in the presidency, in the media. and we all just decide to believe the facts we believe. >> the main team media erodes our faith in their institutions from -- >> there have been problems and there are things that are right to be called out. but other issues where if you don't like it at this point, people call it fake news. that draives me crazy. >> i've been seeing fake news for a while.
>> i agree that there have been things that have been -- >> it's the placement on the front page. >> the idea that they're objective is crazy. there is no objectivity. >> but some are worse than others. >> and there are some stories where people have ignored the -- reporters have ignored the facts and set that up. that needs to be driven out. i digress. >> was my fault. mike flynn has told the senate intelligence committity he is willing to be interviewed about trussia. the house and senate intelligence committee are investigating russia, and they could subpoena him, but he would not be forced to say something. >> the journlt sa"journal" says
for immunity, but in the letter itself there's no request for that. when they interviewed the lawyer, the lawyer said he would be crazy not to get some type of assurance. it's asking for immunity. >> >> it is. he even said on "meet the press," when people ask for immunity, you've done something wrong, you're right. >> i've seen the carter hayes interview yesterday, you don't know whether to -- if you take it at face value, saying did you do this? absolutely not. absolutely not. absolutely not. i don't know whether flynn will say that, yeah, i was -- i was doing this because the -- i was -- my assignment was to court the russians to get them to hurt -- >> my reaction is there is more thunder here than you will see
in the actual testimony. >> either way, it would be surprising. politics is so dirty. you think about what the democrats were doing with the dnc. all it did was shine a light on a bunch of dirty stuff they do. would it be totally ridiculous for an administration to say, hey, they're helping us? i don't know. i don't know. both sides are so dirty. >> his lawyer says he has a story to tell. that's what makes people think, oh -- >> the question becomes, from the market perspective, how long does in drag out? >> think if the democrats knew that there was -- remember that ridiculous dossier about the crazy stuff that went on over there, that's been sort of thrown out by that british -- think if the democrats got ahold of that. you don't think they would ask the russians to get that out? to hurt trump? >> until all of this comes out, the information you're getting, which you identify as fake news, is nothing more than just a
continual editorial, whether it's social media or wherever it may be, you're just getting editorials. >> twitter is causing fake news. all you need -- remember the cuba gooding thing, nobody would have written about that. >> cuba gooding jr. was playing around with one of his -- >> i'll never do that. we go way back. i might screw around or something. i wouldn't be dehumanizing a woman, just busting your chops. people see cuba gooding doing that. they tweet about it. the mainstream media is watching what people tweet about and write about it as if it's relevant or true. >> social media has not improved the journalism process. >> you don't think it's increasing productivity in this country? >> not at all. you're right, the real issue is what this means for the markets. >> how long is it going to take? i don't think anyone identified this. >> phil orlando is here, too. this is our issue of the day, what next with the markets? >> the russia stuff, all that is just a distraction.
what i prefer do is focus back on the economy, the potential implementation oftrumponomics, all this other stuff is a side show which takes our focus away. >> assuming it doesn't bring down a president if it's all true. that would be a problem, your trumponomics won't work if it's pencenomics. >> it would be huge if it were true and we see resignations. at that point, that's not the case. >> it's the last day of the quarter. >> yeah. >> we matched march come in like a huge bull. >> we did great. came in like a bull, had this sort of wave of pessimism that came in. >> the healthcare bill not getting passed, wondering whether the rest of the
administration could get the tax plan through. where do we stand now? >> that's the issue. as disappointed as we were with the way the whole healthcare debacle played out, we don't think that's the whole death nail for the execution of trumponomics. they screwed up. we would not have prioritized healthcare first. we would have built up positive momentum first, and then gotten to a more contentious issue like healthcare that was going to be uglier, later in the cycle as we got some positive momentum. >> one of those things being infrastructure in. >> infrastructure in our mind is at the top of the list. getting tax reform, repatriation and infrastructure done earlier, we felt had more bipar san suppo bipartisan support. >> do you feel we still have the policy put and what is the next catalyst? do we look to the emerging markets and europe which are performing well, and now money
managers saying we don't want to be in the u.s., we want to go outside the u.s. for investment opportunities. >> we still like what's going on domestically. the next thing is we'll start earnings season in about a week. >> right. >> the earnings recession is over. we had seven consecutive bad quarters year over year. a good quarter in the third quarter, a good quarter in the fourth. this quarter we think will be up 9%, 10% year over year. i don't think the street is focusing on the fact that things have gotten better. part of that is that the energy market troughed. we don't see crude prices back into the mid 20s. we do think we'll start to get some better positive momentum going in the economy. if we can get some trumponomics things in place over the course of the year, we think that trend accelerates. >> where do you focus. if you are telling people to invest money, where should they put it? >> we've had this negative rotation the last month or so. given the improvement we've seen
coming out of the election the first two months of the year, we tell clients we could reasonably expect a 2% to 4% correction into the march/april time frame. we had that. we came back about 3.5%. >> if you were waiting to put money in, you missed it -- >> we started adding into that. what we've done, because a lot of economically sensitive names got hit in march, that's where we're focused here. energy, financial services, those are two areas that we think are attractive. >> all right. phil, thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you. good to see you. >> coming up, all day long on cnbc we're taking a closer look at president trump's plan to rebuild america's infrastructure. up next, former pennsylvania governor ed rendell tells us why the plan should be fast tracked. he's the co-chair of a bipartisan group encouraging investment in roads, rails, bridges and more. he looks really good there. great shot. that's what he looks like, though. "squawk box" will be right back.
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ylan. mui has more. >> the trillion dollar plan is still taking shape but three big questions are framing the discussion. the first one is figuring out what counts as infrastructure. transportation secretary elaine chao has said the president's package would not just include roads and bridges, there's energy, water, and broadband and veterans hospitals. the secretary is in canada today to learn about how it privatized its air traffic control system. the second big issue is regulations. cgla estimated it takes 9.5 years to move an infrastructure project from start to finish. congress tried to streamline this process in a law passed over a year ago, businesses say provisions have not been fully implemented. the big roadblock to the plan is how to pay for it it. on the campaign trail president trump proposed tax credits, and
secreta secretary elaine chao said there is a place for public and private partnerships. >> every time we talk about this, we say this issue has bipartisan support. that's probably nuanced when you try to find both sides and where they agree and disagree. you get a sense this is something congress will come together for? >> we talked to peter defazio, the congressman and ranking member of the house transportation committee. he told us that he is willing to work with the president, but he needs to see federal dollars behind this program. they are not willing to leave this all to private investment. they're worried that could leave rural communities behind and that projects that don't turn a profit won't get funded. >> i know you said you will answer to anything. we're still working on thepronu. >> ylan mui.
>> one syllable. >> my spanish is like mui bueno. i never -- >> this was our argument before you came on. >> you just need to say cervesa. >> that's right. or uno mas cervesa. [ speaking pspanish ] that's welcome parking lot. okay, mui. >> mui. >> mui? >> mui. >> mui. >> that sounds like two. >> ylan mui, am i saying it correctly? >> you got it. >> ha. >> thanks. rendell is easy. our next guest says the president's infrastructure plan should be fast tracked as a priority. i can't believe that, that a democrat would say anything that trump wants to do should be fast tracked as a priority. he's been out of office for a
while. i don't know. you're on the wrong page, ed. you'll get yelled out for saying that. that is an old democratic thing, too. ed rendell former governor of pennsylvania, now co-chair of building america's future a bipartisan coalition seeking to improve infrastructure. saun s we'll have ron klain on, he says this is not an infrastructure plan trump has, he says this is like a tax plan or a -- he disparages it. you want to do infrastructure. do you want to do it the trump way or do you have a different way you want to do it or at least have a seat at the table. >> when we say we need to repair the american infrastructure, it's more than bridges, roads and highways, it is our electrical grid, water systems, our wastewater systems. so the president is dead right about that.
secondly, the president is correct that even though fast track had some things in it to speed up the regulatory process, it's not good enough. we can do better. we should do better. i think democrats basically agree with the president on those two points. the third point is how to fund it. the president is also right there's a place for private dollars. private dollars can be invested into good, big projects whereas you know the private sector wants a decent rate of return. let's take one example. we have 55,000 structurally deficient bridges in america. 55,000 that are potential tragedies just waiting to happen. that hinder our economic competitiveness. now, probably no more than 500 of those bridges could be told to produce the return on investment the private sector needs. the other 54,000 plus have to be done with government dollars. it doesn't have to be all
federal dollars. 19 states raised their gas tax to do roads and bridges, but they need help from the federal government. so, mr. defazio is right when he says that we need federal dollars behind this. there's two-ways to do it. one, raise the gas tax, which we ought to do, it hasn't been raised since 1994. it's worth about two-thirds of what it did in 1994 because of inflation. but there's probably not votes in congress for it. i ask americans when i go out and speak on this issue, anybody know what the federal gas tax is per gallon? no one in the audience knows. no one knows. so it's fairly easy to raise. assuming they're not going to do that, we have to use some of these repatriation dollars to fund the federal share of the infrastructure plan. that's a good idea. it will put the repatriation dollars to use. not such a good idea because when this next phase is over, those dollars disappear, we
still need to fund infrastructure revitalization. so there is common ground to be reached. democrats are serious about infrastructure. best of all, both sides talk about high-wage jobs. infrastructure and the factories that produce the steel, construction sites, the worker there's, make 60,000, 70,000, 0,000,70,000, 80,000, $90,000 a year. that's tough. tough to do. with the gasoline tax, in the past you have it, it's supposed to be for this, it goes for something else. is there a way you would be totally confident that you can write the legislation so that it would go exactly what it was designed to do? that's always the problem. >> sure, you put a provision in there that the highway trust fund cannot be used for anything other than the repair of roads, bridges, highways. cannot be used period.
so if congress tries to use it for something else, any taxpayer can bring a lawsuit against it saying it violates provisions of the bill. there are angss answers to do . the question is is there congressional will. we better do it and do it fast. >> are democrats that won't even use the word president in terms of trump. seriously. you say it, and i'm not kidding. you're not in office now. it's such a bizarre environment that we're in right now. would you go for gorsuch? we have manchin yesterday and mccaskill saying some things. up or down or gorsuch? what would you do? >> i have not paid enough attention to the hearings to know. >> we've all paid attention. come on. easy answer for you. he's qualified. that's a yes. sotomayor was qualified, she got some republican votes.
>> look, the answer is -- the answer is -- >> are you still mad about merrick garland? >> yeah. >> you are. >> but i don't think you can punish gorsuch for that. what the republicans did was unconscionable and unprecedented. >> they were just following the biden rule. >> doesn't matter, two wrongs don't make a right. i think obviously judge gorsuch deserves a vote, deserves a hearing. there are some things in that hearing that are disquieting, but on the other hand he's a bright man, lil r shg, literalt great economic background. people will focus on infrastructure when american safety and the american economy is at stake. if the president comes up with a good plan, work to modify it the way you think it should be modified but we need to do something about infrastructure
now, not later. now. >> all right. you're one of the good ones, ed. i believe that, governor. thank you. thanks for being out here. >> have a great day. >> you, too. >> when we return, our rebuilding america special coverage continues with a look at the stocks that could benefit from president trump's infrastructure plan. the s&p construction and engineering index is up more than 18% since the november election. as we head to a break, look at yesterday's s&p 500's winners and losers.
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♪ welcome back. you're watching "squawk box" live from the nasdaq market site in times square. good morning. welcome back. this is "squawk box" on cnbc. let's look at the u.s. equity futures. looks like right now things are under a bit of pressure. dow futures down by 41. s s&p down by 4. nasdaq off by 10. boeing awarded a 2$2.2 billion pentagon contract for 17 maritime aircraft. 11 planes are for the u.s. navy and two for foreign sales. jo johnson and johnson says its sale of actelion will go ahead in the second quarter. the r & d unit will be spun off
as a swiss group. and eog efforts rose to profitability, every time oil prices go up. >> spigots are turned back on, that brings the oil prices back down with increased supply. rebuilding america. talking about it today, but let's do it stock by stock. joining us is anne dygden, a member of a superior genetic background, a ginger with red hair, like my kids. >> and my mother. >> yeah. exactly. so, listen carefully, she'll probably be right. can you subdivide the different infrastructure plays for us to start out with? there's bridges, there's --
>> there's a lot of different infrastructure, and actually right now there's no agreement in congress around the definition of infrastructure. you look at things like bo broadband, that's generally under the purview of the usda, getting that out to america. we have to first define what is infrastructure. >> can you subdivide it into three or four things? >> the biggest part is roads and bridges. >> roads and bridges. >> that is the biggest. recently the american society of civil engineers did raise the point that we're about a trillion dollars in deficit in investment in roads and bridges. >> just that part. >> just that part alone. there's definitely the need out there for an infrastructure bill, a need for increased spending. i think the whole issue will come around to how do we do it? where do we get the money? how do we allocate it? who is responsible for? is it ppps, federal money. if you look at the current administration's budget, they're
proposing a 13% cut to the department of transportation and theoretically they would be the ones doing the spending. >> they would be doing the spending but, you know, we can do it without blowing all the money on the people that are deciding what to do the spending on chltsd i wou on. i would rather spent the money on the roads, bridges than the layers of bureaucracy that decide what to do. >> i think that's a great point. if you look at states themselves today, 20 states have increased their own fuel taxes in order to do it themselves. >> yeah. >> if you look at private nonresidential construction, we're already 44% above last cycle's peak. so we're doing it on our own. we don't need the federal government involved. >> let's say becky talks to buffett, he decides to throw some money into this who would make money with roads and infrastructure? cement companies? >> you begin with aggregates. >> like who?
>> if you look at my sector, i cover machinery. probably the most obvious name would be caterpillar. if you look at the stock price, that's already reflected in the stock price. we're neutral caterpillar. the price target is $89. if they pulled back, we would get more constructive. they are the biggest player in machinery, they will benefit from activity out there. >> who is alison? >> alison transmission is indirect. they make automatic transmissions for things like cement mixers, waste disposal trucks. >> no kidding. >> they're the only ones that do it. they have a great niche position. >> how long have they been automatic? i used to learn how to drive a truck back in the old days. you do not want to be grinding gears. >> some have 10, 11 gears. >> 18 gears. >> one for each wheel. 18-wheeler. that's weird.
okay. what was the other one i saw up there? >> one we would avoid now is manatowac. the stock almost doubled after the election. so we think more of the upside is already baked in. it makes cranes. they might benefit, but there's a company whose sales peaked at 4 billion back at peak of the cycle. as far as other areas of sfrux th infrastructure that we talk about, do you cover those? >> i'm just the machinery expert. and agriculture. but we would avoid the agriculture names also like deere. if you look at all the sects that would be negatively impacted by the current administration, it's agriculture. if you look at the strong dollar policy, any trade disagreements,
the mexican peso and it's devaluation, they are the third large effort st importer of agrl food items, immigration policy, go down the list, it's negative for agriculture. >> just look at the budget. they just cut the 2kdepartment agriculture budget by 20%. >> yeah. >> or proposed to. >> everyone keeps talking about utilizing a fuel tax.ilize a fu lot of the names you mention i wonder how priced in it is. when you look at the energy infrastructure, there has to be a return on investment. let's set up an energy infrastructure bank. you have 60% of the land mass, marcellus shale, let's go after energy infrastructure here. get a return on our investment. look at natural gas. we're now exporting 30% more
natural gas to mexico. so i would say the real opportunity in this infrastructure potential bill would be in the pipelines, the dwevelop developmentes. flow serve is a name directly correlated to pipelines. and we're utilizing the greatest asset this country has, besides technology, which is oil. on the global stage it's all about oil, especially at this point. >> that's not where the shortfall is the oil infrastructure has been taken -- has been build out by the private sector already. how will that help with the 55,000 bridges ready to fall down? >> i disagree with you on that. there has been a private sector incentive to invest in energy infrastructure in the last eight years? just the last three months we're talking about it. >> why have we doubled production in the last three
years? >> we're transporting energy on railcars. >> is not the frukinfrastructur short fall we're worried about. you're basing it on where we will make the most money if we do it. we have things that are lacking, right? i'm not thinking about what's happened in the boom in i'll oi production and shale and natural gas that doesn't seem to be where the government needs to step in and grease the whooel. >> wheel. >> i don't think enough states would benefit, that's where you have the problem. who makes concrete or cement? anyone here? >> aggregates companies. >> we won't buy from symex, would we? >> that's not a u.s. company. >> that's all we need to start to do. >> they'll haul it for you. allison transmission makes the
engines in the concrete mixers, so there's a derivative play for you. >> so we need to turn someone else in your office to talk about the aggregates. >> yes. >> can you call them? >> when i get back to the office. >> but you can't call them now? >> no. >> thank you. we had manitowoc as a pick, but it's not a pick, it's a pan. >> yes. >> great. when we return, an interview with wilbur ross, he will explain the president's orders on trade. and ceo's speak about the president's commitment to rebuild the infrastructure. mark sutton will join us in the next hour. and at 8:00 a.m., doug parker tells us why he thinks it's crucial to rebuild the air traffic control system. stay tuned, you are watching "squawk box" on cnbc.
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have been under a bit of pressure. right now dow futures still down by 46 points. s&p looks like it would hope down by 5 points. nasdaq looks like it would open down by 1 1 1/2. th look at crude oil prices. wti falling back to just above $50 a barrel. down 29 cents this morning to $50.05. and it is time now for the executive edge. some global stories that are on the radar this morning. the european union is setting out its draft guidelines for brexit talks with the uk. donald tusk said that the task would be difficult and confrontational, but he promises that the eu will not take an unnecessarily punitive approach. there was one important olive branch for the uk, a discussion on a fresh future trade deal could take place before the end of the two-year period. only provided that sufficient progress has taken place on the
separate divorce terms before then which will be for the eu to decide. the draft guidelines will be formalized on the 29th of april at the eu summit. yesterday for a while on drudge, the lead was -- did you see that the efshgsu guy said, all right brex president trump came over here and said brexit is a good thing. we'll try to break up the united states. >> jean-claude juncker taking aim at president saying if i continue to voice support for countries that leave the eu, juncker would n his words, promote the independence of ohio and austin, texas. you wonder why -- >> you do it to us, we do it to you. >> you wonder why they're lost over there a little bit. >> it wasn't a funny joke?
>> was it a joke? >> it was supposed to be a joke. yeah. >> you didn't find it funny? >> i -- i find it funny if it's -- california might leave. california might leave. i don't know. no. i guess it's sort of funny. i just sort of have had that view, i don't know how i -- i didn't -- i had it years ago that this is a jusystem that is- >> you would have a centralized finance center, and it would be doomed from the start. >> it is crazy for a common currency with a country up here and one down here with totally different economic -- >> you understand after world war ii, trying to bring them closer together, but, y but everybody having their own presidency and their own head, and their own parliament, you can never centralized those
different pieces. >> you basically have one economy, being germany, that contributes to all the growth. >> and you have got -- there's still a lot of simmering differences the countries, you're denying the nationalists -- it's like trying to tell a fish to swim. they say you've got mississippi and massachusetts. how can those two -- totally different. >> common language and common history. >> right. that, too. when was world war ii? >> '40s. >> not that long ago. >> you know how fast ten years goes. >> i used to think it was a long time ago. the older i get, the less longer it was. when we return, rebuilding america, ron klain, the former chief of staff with joe biden will join us, and he's warning that the president's plan is a trap. he'll explain next.
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and general counsel at revolution. he's also the former chief of staff to vice president joe biden. ron, thank you for being here today. >> thanks for having me, becky. >> you don't like the idea of this infrastructure plan. you want to explain why? >> yeah, sure. you know, candidate trump had a plan in the campaign to use tax breaks to incentivize for-profit infrastructure projects. this is a point joe was making in an earlier segment this morning, which is that really it would be a boone to things like pipelines, and utility company projects, you know, things some people like, things some people don't like but it would do nothing to fix our roads, fix our bridges, fix our water system. the kind of things most americans think about when they say we need more infrastructure spending. and i don't really know that we need a bunch of tax breaks to energy industry investors right now. what we really need right now is investment in the kind of things in our infrastructure that are falling apart. >> although the idea of trying to get some of the public/private partnerships has been one that's worked in the past and one that has been used
beneficially for public housing and other items along those liensz. if you use the public/private partnership, people who are advising the president on some of these issues points out that look, you'll get some of the benefits of private industry where you can probably do things cheaper and more efficiently and more quickly. >> i think that's a little bit of a shell game. all these projects are public/private partnerships. we don't hire public workers to build roads anymore. these are all projects that get jobbed out to contractors. so the question is really are we going to fund a real unfunded needs or are we going to give tax breaks to people in the energy industry. you know, that's the choice. and most interestingly of all, of course, as president, donald trump hasn't said any infrastructure plan to congress at all. indeed the only infrastructure proposal he's made so far is the largest cut in roads and bridges in 40 years to fund the wall at the southern border. we have to see what president trump is going to put on the table. is it going to be the same plan that secretary ross wrote back
in the campaign. you can ask him that when he comes on the show later on today. or is it going to be a different plan. what is the plan and when is it coming? one report from the white house said they wouldn't send the plan to congress until 2018. late in 2018. none of these projects are going to get started until 2019 at the very earliest. >> ron, i'm getting a weird, uncomfortable feeling because i think i'm maybe saying we need to expand government in certain respects. >> yeah. >> but if you think about police departments, or fire departments, or -- or the our armed forces. the government sometimes needs to do things where you just know you're going to spend money that you raised through taxes. maybe it's gas taxes. if you could make sure that that's where it is going to go. but then i could just wish that you had the accountability and the innovation of the private sector to take that money that you know you got to spend, maybe infrastructure really is like
the police department, or the fire department, and then you raise it through your taxing authority, but then you make sure you don't blow it with the government waste that we normally have. i think that's the private part of the partnership that we want. >> 100%, joe. i mean it's funny. you and i are in agreement on this. >> i know. very uncomfortable. >> must make you scared. but i think that's absolutely right. which is there are some things that only government can fund. we need private contractors. private involvement but we have to rebuild our roads, our britains, our tunnels. those are public goods. we all use them every day. we should all have them. >> you're a smart man, ron. >> appreciate that. >> okay. thanks. and thank you. >> thank you, joe. >> way to the right of me, apparently. h things we can make money on. you know what? i'm going to think about it. coming up, commerce secretary wilbur ross joins us. because i'm kind of nauseous, i think. joins us on president trump's new executive orders on the trade deficit and tariff enforcement. first on cnbc.
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wil ross. new this morning, president trump. do i move, too? or just you're going to move. uh-oh, no, stop. president trump expected to sign -- i'm a pro. to sign executive orders on trade to fulfill a key campaign promise. make trade fair. commerce secretary wilbur ross will join us in a first on cnbc interview. rebuilding america. the administration's trillion dollar plan and the impact on business and of course your investments. the ceo of international paper is here to talk jobs, manufacturing, and infrastructure spending. and closing out the first quarter, the dow is on track for its first six quarter winning streak since way back in 2006. what you can expect as we head into earnings season, as the
second hour of "squawk box" begins right now. ♪ live from the beating heart of business, new york city, this is "squawk box." >> good morning, everybody, welcome back to "squawk box" here on cnbc. we are live from the nasdaq marketsite in times square. i'm becky quick along with joe kernen. andrew is off today. in studio with us today, sharing his thoughts on the economy, washington policy and global business is mark sutton. he is the ceo of international paper. and mark, welcome. great to have you. >> great to be here. >> a lot to talk about with mark. a lot going on through the entire show. get you quickly caught up today with where the futures stand. if you haven't seen it already the futures are under a little bit of pressure on this last trading day of the quarter. dow futures down by about 45 points. the s&p futures down by 5. the nasdaq off by 10.
in our headlines this morning it is the busiest day of the week. for economic numbers. we'll be getting february personal income and spending. that's coming out at 8:30 eastern time. the chicago purchasing managers index is out at 9:45 eastern and then at 10:00 we'll be getting the university of michigan's consumer sentiment index. dupont has struck a deal that moves it closer to winning european approval for its planned merger with dow chemicals. it's divesting part of its protection business to fmc corporation. dupont says the transaction satisfies commitments it made to european regulators. and new york fed president says the fed's recent rate hikes should keep economic expansion on track. he told the florida audience that the hikes will reduce the risk of the economy overheating and of overshooting inflation targets. >> the president's former national security adviser mike flynn has told the senate intelligence committee that he's willing to be interviewed about the trump campaign's possible
ties to russia, that in exchange for immunity. flynn's attorney said no reasonable person with legal counsel would submit to such questioning without an assurance against unfair prosecution. flynn's connections to russia are being investigated by the house and senate intelligence committees. president trump, meanwhile, is expected to sign new executive orders on trade today, and one of the orders is expected to put u.s. trading partners on notice for any abuse that contributes to the trade deficit. joining us now is commerce secretary wilbur ross. got to call you like mr. secretary now after all these years, wilbur. but, you know what, at least you got to get something out of this gig i think, right? >> that's true. >> out of this disrespect now from "squawk box" although we're old friends. i read both executive orders for today, and it sounds like they're very similar. i don't know why, two executive orders but they're sort of designed to do the same thing, right? unfair trade in the first one, and then dumping and
anti-dumping in the second one. could you explain the two? >> sure. the first one calls for the commerce department to conduct a 90-day study, country by country, product by product, of why are we having so much trade deficit with each of those parties. now in some cases, it will be legitimate reason. for example, we're still not self-sufficient in oil. so, obviously we have to bring a lot of oil in from somewhere. but in other cases, it will be bad practices. it will be dumping. it will be unfair subsidy of outbound product from other countries to us. it will be currency misalignment. it will be any of the variety of reasons. we're going to try to pin down the causes, pinpoint the kinds of responses that might be made, and that will guide trade policy
going forward, in a very measured, very analytical way. so that's the first order. the second order is about the other half of it. when i first took this job i was horrified to learn that billions of dollars of duties that have the been won after these hard-fought cases have never been collected. something like $3 billion. and the reason is that a lot of times these foreign countries set up straw man importers who really have no financial substance. so when they eventually win the case, there's nobody with resources to go after. what the second order will do is to give us the power to set bonds, namely either letters of credit, or insurance company bonds, or cash that those importers will have to put up so that when we do eventually win
the case, there's really somebody there who can pay. and that -- those finds will be collected by the homeland security through their customs and border patrol. >> yesterday we were having the age-old argument, again, wilbur, about trade deficits. and it was former treasury secretary larry summers was here. they use just the notion that a trade deficit is a bad thing, as a way to impugn your, you know, whether someone understands trade or not. and i am sure you still hear this all the time. there are people that argue that a trade deficit is actually a good thing. because we're getting more for our stuff than, you know, we're actually -- i don't know, the more we get from china cheaper, the bigger the trade deficit is. and so it's actually advantageous to have a trade deficit, which i don't know. i'd still like to export a lot of stuff. but we are a rich country that
by definition can buy stuff from everybody else, because we consume more, because we're able to. because we have the financial wherewithal. do you ever -- do you ever question whether it's a red herring that the whole trade deficit idea? >> well, trade deficits are good, why is china so pleased that they run a huge trade surplus? how can it be that both deficits and surpluses are good for your economy? that's the question that i would ask that. and i think it's perfectly obvious that if china hadn't been such a huge net exporter it never would have grown at the rate that it did. so unless someone can figure out how both surpluses and deficits are each good, i feel they won't. >> it's kind of like -- i won't say it. no it's kind of like global warming can cause a lot of snow, and no snow somehow at the same time. and it is, it's like i'm not
really sure how that -- how that necessarily works. but you make a good point. that, is it a good thing? i guess it could be nuanced, maybe, for a developing country or, you know, like china maybe it makes more sense to have -- i don't know. i'm sure someone -- these guys that take the other stand would have a good answer for you, i think, wilbur. >> well, whatever their answer is, we are going to work very hard to try to reduce our trade deficit. so assuming we accomplish our purpose, we'll find out soon enough whether or not it's good. >> right. i would like to have so many -- like the president, so many american workers that -- making a great paycheck, and making stuff that we, you know, people love levis around the world. i wish we could send everything everywhere and make it here. i couldn't see how that would be a bad thing. >> it wouldn't be a bad thing. and we'll never get quite to
that point. but, think about it. we have right now 187 trade cases against chinese -- against steel dumping into this country. that's 1887 different instances of violations of fto or wto rules. that's not toll rabble. and it surely shows that those people who are dumping, i can promise you, they think that exports are much better than imports. >> secretary ross, i definitely agree with you that sometimes we've gotten taken advantage of as a nation. but i look at all of these things added up together, with these executive orders, when you consider what president trump was tweeting yesterday about how these negotiations with china are going to be very difficult. when you start looking at things like the border adjustment tax that's been prepared to try and make it a fair irplaying field, more level playing field for our
manufacturers, and taken in whole you start to wonder if there will be unintended consequences to ought of these. that other nations would not look at that and say, okay, this is a very different environment, then if you do that to us we're going to do something else to you. that certainly has been one concern that our trade relationships would be hurt. how would you soothe any of those concerns? and how do we know about the unintended consequences of all these actions? >> well, first of all, i don't believe the administration has endorsed border adjustable taxes. that's a proposal that has come out of house ways and means, and we've been studying it very carefully. but i don't believe that either the president -- that the president has taken a position on it just yet. >> what's your position on that mr. ross? >> my position on it is several things. one, there is an inherent unfairness to the way that the value-added tax works for other countries. they get a rebate of it, usually
something approaching 20%, on their exports. we don't have a value added tax. and three times the wto has ruled against measures passed by congress to let our exporters deduct their corporate income taxes on exports when they make the export. that's an inherently unfair anomaly. so something has to be done to fix that one way or the other. as to border adjustable itself, it, too, is a very complex thing. there are many details of it to be worked out so that it doesn't produce unintended consequences. so, as the details unfold, when ways and means makes their detailed proposal pretty shortly, then we'll be in a position to analyze it and come to a conclusion. >> you heard anything about
whether they may go back to, wilbur, they may go back and try and do obamacare again to get the trillion dollars to do the tax reform? do you think that -- mcconnell says no. other people say yes. you walk around there. you listen to what's going on as a fly on the wall? what do you think? >> well, this fly on the wall is mostly focusing on trade. as opposed to the health care projects. the president has given us quite enough assignments in commerce to try to deal with without grappling with health care. >> can i ask you a philosophical question. >> sure. >> like yesterday when i was, you know, i talked to academics, and they still, i don't know, they still think that a guy like you, that it can't apply to government which is very weird to me that things like the innovation, in the private sector or the accountability in the private sector, that that can't somehow equate. i'll take a business guy any day over an academic or law professor or something like
that. but, i just -- i just conceded, willler, that maybe we need to use pure government money derived from taxes to rebuild our infrastructure. >> well, to me, infrastructure has three separate buckets. one is the project that has very clearly designed, very high quality long-term sources of revenue from user fees, or tolls or what have you. those are easy to finance thap can i do tax exempt bonds, they can do taxable bonds, they can get private equity funds to give them equity. those are the easy category. >> okay. >> second category are the ones that have no revenue stream at all. >> and we need. >> and those are a matter of public policy, does government wish to finance them. >> yes. >> then you have a third bucket, and those are the ones that have some sort of a revenue stream, but maybe it's a little bit
flakier. maybe it's a little bit less certain. to me, those are the ones that are logical for a public/private partnership. because then you'll have private sector equity, shielding the risk for the lender. and making the rate of return. and we made an example that after yesterday, we announced a $56.5 billion project with at&t to really build a 21st century, first responder network throughout the entire country. we put up $6.5 billion through spectrum, unused spectrum that we contributed to the venture. at&t is putting up $50 billion of actual cash so we've got almost eight times as much in cash than at&t for the project as we contributed. that kind of public/private
partnership, to me, makes perfect sense. now maybe the academics could do better. but i think getting that kind of a ratio is a pretty good job. >> yeah. agreed. we just had ron klain on. he pointed out that it's all public private partnerships. because when the government decides to do something with the tax money, they usually go to the private sector to get whatever it is done. so, you know, there's always the private sector involvement. my point is, how do you bring things in under budget? how do you bring things in on time when you're the government, you're controlling the purse -- that's what i want the private sectors sort of, and it's really driven by profit incentive in many times, that keeps people worried about what their boss is going to say to them. if they're late. if they overcharge or anything like that. that's what i wish the government, you know, that's where i wish the private sector to ride herd over a lot of the projects. can that be done? >> well, it is being done. the president created a kind of
task force, an advisory committee on infrastructure consisting of my friend and business partner richard latrack and others in order to provide real input from private sector people who are the world's best developers. >> secretary ross, can i ask one more question. i'm sorry, i think i cut you off in your answer of my last question, i was so interested in what you said about border adjustment and the administration not taking a stance on that yet, but back to the point of unanticipated consequences, if we are doing things potentially to rile up our trading partners. do you worry about that? are there any overall effects of the cumulative effect of all of these moves? do you worry that there will be other nations that take actions up against us? >> well, there are unintended
consequences of doing nothing, as well. so as to doing something, you have to think about it this way. we are in a trade war. we have been for decades. the only difference is that our troops are finally coming to the rampart. we didn't end up with a trade deficit accidentally. we ended up with a trade deficit because of the way we negotiated treaties. and because of the determination of other countries who don't agree with the academics, who are desperately trying to have the trade surplus with us. the fact is that our trade deficit overall is about $500 billion a year. and quite miraculously, that also equals the net trade surplus of the rest of the world. it's not inherent in free trade that one country has to absorb all the net exports of the rest of the world.
>> willler ross, we appreciate your time this morning, mr. secretary, and hope to see you again soon and we're excited. i want to see concrete and cranes and get started. let's get moving. let's break some ground. break some ground somewhere. you've got a builder as the president. it should be easy. >> well we're going to try to break ground without breaki ini glass. >> or breaking wind, which nobody needs. anyway, thank you, wilbur. >> okay. >> thank you for appreciating joe's humor. >> yeah. oh, wilbur, you know, get him cocktails in him, and -- >> oh. thank you wilbur. when we come back our guest host today, international paper ceo mark sutton will talk to us about jobs in america and the trait of manufacturing. stay tuned. you are watching "squawk box" right here on cnbc. the greatest population shift in human history
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in >> welcome back, everyone. earlier this year, president trump announced plans to launch a manufacturing jobs initiative. one of the members of the president's jobs council joins us this morning. our guest host today is international paper's chairman and ceo mark sutton. thanks for being here today. >> thank you, becky, i'm happy to be here. >> you just heard what wilbur ross had to say about those executive orders about where he's going to be trying to make
sure that american manufacturing may be getting a fairer shake. where do you think we stand now just in terms of manufacturing in america? >> i think manufacturing in america, manufacturing jobs are good for the country. they're some of the highest paying jobs. we've lost a lot of them over time so a lot of different reasons. i think what we're talking about on the council you mentioned is trying to include competitiveness, and manufacturing jobs have a right to be here. so if jobs were lost because of tax policy and competitive despair or regulatory complexity we should talk about that and see if we can fix some of that. there are other jobs that left because of labor cost component being 70% or 80% of the products cost. and it's not likely that that type of job comes back, because americans wouldn't want to pay that much for the product. so it's really a practical way of looking at why are we not doing more, especially for domestic consumption. >> the thing that you point out there are some jobs that are not coming back, because that is something that maybe hasn't been said quite as clearly. you're doing this with the
understanding that not every job is coming back. >> the team of leaders that are willing to work on this, "a" because it's good for our country, secondly, it's mostly good for our companies, so you think about international paper, a lot of what we do is to help other companies get their product to market. we're largely a packaging company now. so if we can have policy that with tax and regulatory environments that are allowing the competitiveness of u.s. manufacturing and to take our industry, we're globally competitive based on land ownership rules, based on sustainable forest management, we have a right to compete all over the world. and if we can maximize that we can export what the world needs that they don't have, and we can make the products for domestic consumption. but it matters if our customers' business improves. >> the primary tax policy that's been put forward has come from the house ways and means committee talking about border adjustment tax. you just heard secretary ross say the administration hasn't signed off on that, the president hasn't signed off on that. is that something you're
supporting? >> here's the way we think about that. it's a bit theoretical right now in terms of how it would work. if you just look at the first order effect for a company like international paper we're a net exporter and we import virtually nothing. on the first order -- >> great idea. >> it's a great idea. >> awesome. >> the second order is what does it do to the economy and our customers? we serve ever resegment you can khaj and a lot of our customers import product and if it plays out and hurts their demand then it hurts our company. anything that improves gdp in this country over time is the right way to go. so tax policy, combined with regulatory policy, needs to have that goal in mind. raising wages -- >> does the border adjustment tax help or hurt the gdp? >> well i think that's the $64,000 question. if it plays out like economic theory says it does, it may end up improving. if it doesn't, we may end up with some of these questions you were asking secretary ross, what happens when somebody views it
as a -- >> as a tariff. >> as a tariff, and unrelated industry gets a tariff placed on it. or what if the currency doesn't adjust and things get more expensive for people who import components. those are hard to answer but i think we have to look at it more from -- what it does to the economy than what it does -- >> because the currency is moving in the right direction. >> and i think that's exactly why our position is we need to see the gings of legislative language, i think a lot of companies are there, before we react to the framework. because if you look at the blueprint, it's a pretty high level framework. >> but you made some interesting points. we're going to lose jobs to automation. we're going to lose some jobs to labor. but why should we lose a single job based on self-inflicted tax policy, or antiquated rules on the books. we should never lose any. if we lose them for a good reason. >> we've got, in our country, joe, we've got a greatwork force. we need to reinvest in that.
that's one of the initiatives we're working on, workforce development, encouraging young people to get into science, technology, edge nearing, math. we've got a lot of jobs. it's not as many in some industries but the jobs are more sophisticated now. so better training. but you're right. we should have a competitive spirit that we don't lose a single job that we're globally competitive on. >> that we could avoid losing. if we're doing it to ourselves. why question it? that's why i get irritated when people say oh, manufacturing is never coming back. there's nothing we can do. you know. there is something we can do. >> absolutely. >> mark is our guest host. he's going to be with us for the rest of the morning. when we return on "squawk box," david bianco, deutsche asset management is expecting the s&p to hit 2400 by the end of the year. >> that's almost a percentage point. that's crazy. wow, david out on a limb. >> will drive this market higher after the break. also take a look at the u.s. equity futures. ahead of the open it looks like we're still under a future. due futures down 37, the nasdaq almost -- and at $4.95, you can trade with a clear advantage.
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good morning, welcome back to "squawk box" here on cnbc live from the nasdaq marketsite in times square. blackberry is out with earnings this morning. company reported a profit of four cents a share compared to estimates of a break-even quarter. revenue also exceeded estimates. blackberry right now specializes in software and services. and -- oh, good. i was looking it up just to see. it has a market cap of $3.7 billion now. so it's a $7 stock. it used to be a $150 stock. so it used to be 20 times -- >> i can't even defend it anymore. the iphone is so much better. i still have both of them. but -- >> yeah. it is a -- the iphone is. >> it's just so worlds above. so many things you can do with it. i don't even need a laptop anymore. >> i can remember with my blackberry, i found a way to get on to the internet. >> yeah. >> by really -- >> but it was so clumsy.
>> i really tried hard. wow, i can get on the internet here. and it's like -- >> i can do the most amazing things from my iphone. >> it's unbelievable. it is. but -- you know, it's too addicting for kids. my kids -- i don't know what -- >> with the blackberry you could get through your e-mails faster. no distractions. >> that's why i keep it. i can type so much faster. >> you've got to do the dictation. not only because it's fast -- >> i can't when i have a screaming baby -- >> she has the most ridiculous things. you look at what she comes up with, and it's almost like a -- >> a lot of times i'm trying to do it while the baby's sleeping, so i'm -- you know -- >> well, that's true. >> oh, oh -- >> no the 5-month-old, caylee. i'm thinking -- >> the actual baby. >> yeah. president trump will sign two new executive orders on trade today. earlier we had heard from commerce secretary wilbur ross. right now, ylon joins u.s. with
more on all of this. >> good morning, becky. president trump's administration is looking to crack down on trade abuses. wilbur ross was just on the show minutes ago outlining the new executive orders from the white house intending to root out what he called bad practices. the first order is a review of the nation's trade deficit. here's secretary ross. >> we're going to try to pin down the causes, pinpoint the kinds of responses that might be made and that will guide trade policy going forward in a very measured, very analytical way. >> some of the things that they're looking for are currency misalignment, overcapacity in any one industry, perhaps lax enforcement on the part of the u.s. this review will be due in 90 days. the second executive order will bolster the government's efforts to collect duties that it's already imposed on countries for dumping products into the united states. it also beefs up efforts to combat counterfeits, and pirated products.
>> are unintended consequences of doing nothing, as well. so as to doing something, you have to think about it this way. we are in a trade war. we have been for decades. the only difference is that our troops are finally coming to the rampart. >> and these orders come on a day when the president will be meeting with small and medium sized manufacturers for a roundtable discussion at the white house. and of course next week the president will host president xi of china in mar-a-lago. president trump tweeted last night that he expects the meeting to be difficult because of the country's trade imbalance. so lots of saber rattling happening this week that maybe the president will strike a different tone once they're down in the florida sunshine. back to you, joe. >> right. it's like i believe in s.a.d., seasonal affective disorder. down there you are in a better mood ylan. that's why i bring the guy i want to soften up, bring him down mar-a-lago, maybe golf course, seafood, nice lobster at
the clubs, right? >> spring has sprung. and lobster is very popular in china. >> really? beautiful. beautiful. see? in the spite of myself i come up with some things. anyway, thank you. let's talk markets on the final trading day of the first corner joining us is david bianco, deutsche bank's chief investment strategist for america and head of u.s. equities. becky tells me i have to be nice because -- okay. we're at -- we're at 2370 basically on the s&p. >> yeah. >> and you're i called it a bold call because you're saying 2400. that's 1.5%. >> that's right. >> okay. >> now of course we've been pointing to 2400 for the end of this year since late last year. >> right. and that is saying we're not going to 2300 or 2200, which could always happen, you never know. so that is somewhat bullish. but my point is, david, it's only march. >> that's right. >> you're basically saying that the lion's share of the gains for the year we've already seen. >> that's true. >> and all we're really going to
seal for the rest of the year is consolidating those gains, maybe correction in the meantime. but ending around where we are right now. >> that is exactly my view. i would add to that that we do expect to get good returns mid to upper single digit for several more years. i think it's going to be a long-lasting expansion and bull market. but right this moment i think what you should be focused on is not so much the overall market but segments of the market and my favorite part of the u.s. market, growth stocks. health care, technology, if you want value, buy financials, not energy. not industrials. i do think the infrastructure theme is overhyped. i think oil price recovery will be slow and volatile. if you're looking for value opportunities look in europe. >> why is the infrastructure theme overhyped? because it's already in the stock? >> of course you have to start out what's in the stock. the value uses are demanding. they're described as acceleration, reflation, and the way we see it the commodity
price recovery will be slow. export activity is going to be just moderate, not as strong as the fire cycle. the infrastructure is on the agenda but health care, and that's been a distraction, and tax reform, which is so much more important to me, is a bigger benefit to things like financials and more domestic exposed companies. that's what's going to happen first. >> so -- >> i would love to get a new penn station. every time we talk about infrastructure we should talk about a need for a new penn station in new york city. >> they've got to fix laguardia first. >> i need an easier commute. it will make me so much more productive. >> penn station is kind of run down. is that -- is that -- >> it is. the whole area can use a refreshing. >> how would you pay for it? i mean, if this was out of your -- >> that's the challenge. how much more would commuters be willing to pay for it? i think we need a public/private partnership in this sense and i do think the u.s. federal government should pay a little bit for penn station. it should be a jewel to the country. >> so your -- your muted
bullishness is valuation, is that what -- it's already reflects a lot of the -- >> we're expecting 10% earnings growth in 2017 before any benefit of a corporate tax did >> so why can't we do 10%? >> the s&p is trading at 19.5 times, 18 times the earnings that i'm forecasting. >> it stays where it is. >> i do expect us to get a good 5% plus benefit in the corporate tax cut at some point. 15% remaining premium, interest rates totally support and we think long-term will only go up slowly. >> all right. so, you're not making a call on -- >> let's make both calls though. i like the growth stocks. >> your muted bullishness is not based on the inability of washington to function? >> well we're counting on washington to get some things done. >> but 1.5%? >> yes. and to some extent the market is counting on that, as well.
>> you know, i remember things. so if this market goes above 2400 and next time you come in and you give me a 2500 target for the s&p -- >> my target is 2500 for 2018. >> you just raise it when it goes above it. oh, yeah we're looking for 2500. you better stick with 2400. so if it goes above 2400, it's going down. >> 2400 for year end is probably where we're going to be. >> okay. we'll see. watch it. coming up, gearing up for infrastructure growth. jackie hinman, ceo of engineering firm ch2m joins us. company gross some of the largest infrastructure projects in the world. she will join us next. and then at the top of the hour, american airlines ceo doug parker joins us. "squawk box" will be right back. .
we are often told that this country's roads and britains are crumbling. there's a difference between needing to rebuild something or simply maintaining it well or upgrading it. joining us to talk about getting the most bang for our infrastructure buck is jackie hinman. chairman and ceo of engineering services company ch2m. she also chairs the business roundtable's committee on infrastructure. jackie, thanks for being here today. >> thank you.
>> i know some of the projects you've worked on have been some really interesting, cool projects. things like the locks with the panama canal. you have a lot of experience in this area. and how should we be thinking about this debate? where do we need to be doing maintenance and where do we need to completely start from scratch? how big of a problem is that? >> if we look at america's infrastructure we are blessed with having strong infrastructure. of course, it was built awhile ago. so in some parts for example you talked about roads, bridges, et cetera, we're on a program of maintenance. we could probably make some improvements. but there are other parts of our infrastructure, water systems, et cetera, that need to be built new. so it's a combination of both maintenance upgrades as well as new construction that needs to happen in order to really improve our economic output and improve our quality of life. >> how do you see this happening? as somebody in private industry, obviously you've seen some of the public/private partnerships at play. we've got a lot of discussion about that this morning. where it works and where it doesn't. how would private industry be able to work with public
government, and where are the projects? >> you know, the projects are across the spectrum. i think as we've heard before i know that secretary ross talked about this a little bit earlier, where we see private financing working best is where there's some sort of a revenue or return stream, of course. but we have also seen a variety of ways where there are different funding mechanism. joint funding bonds. financing, et cetera, that works. it really depends on the ability of local government, much of infrastructure through local and state government, as well as in some cases funding from national governments to make that work. but also an attractive ability for private financing to work. only two-thirds of the states in the united states actually have legislation on the books that even allows them to accept private financing for public infrastructure. so that would be one improvement that could be made immediately. >> jackie, good morning. this is mark sutton. >> good morning. hi, mark. >> good to see you. >> good to see you, too. >> i had a question. how do you think about the role
regulatory reform, there's been a lot of talk about sometimes regulations, and the inefficiency of those get in the way of efficiently doing infrastructure which adds to the cost. what's your view on that and what role the regulatory environment plays in helping these infrastructure projects be more economically viable? >> yeah, well i mean regulations are important. right? whether it's building codes or making sure the right kinds of permits in place, environmental opportunities, et cetera. but where we've seen this work best is where regulations have been streamlined in permitting agencies and authorities work together on projects. and so there are often a myriad of federal regulations, state regulations, and local regulations that either conflict with each other, or there are different permitting or regulatory agencies that have to have approval to sign off. the best way to make infrastructure most efficiently is when people come together and work in one, joint permitting regime. this has happened many, many times in our country.
for even some of the most complex and difficult projects. when people agree to work together in one set of ee fish int and streamlined permitting agenda on a fast track basis, it works beautifully. >> we've spoken with richard lafrac about that and i know that there's a group that's working on very much trying to do what you just laid out. how much hope you put in that and how quickly you think that could happen. >> well, you know, i put a lot of hope in it. we don't need changes to the regulatory or permitting system to get people to work together. and, in fact, some of the most complex and difficult projects have been done where there is a will, and where there's a need. we've looked at for example you sometimes see advanced manufacturing plants come online very quickly, because there's been alignment with the private sector, as well as local, state, and federal opportunities for the creation of jobs, creation of new opportunities about people will fast track and moved through permitting. with all the necessary
approvals, of course, to, for example, build a new manufacturing regime. we've seen very difficult projects, for example where i am now in denver, colorado, an amazing project that happened for nuclear decommissioning, and cleanup of the rocky flats nuclear site which is now an environmental wildlife reservation. happened between the federal government, the state government, local government, environmental stakeholders, building trades et cetera to make that cleanup happen, and reuse of that land within a ten-year time frame when it was originally scheduled for 50 year. so it can happen if there is a will and a way. >> jackie, thank you for joining us today. >> thank you so much. >> when we return, more from international paper's ceo mark sutton. also at the top of the hour, american airlines ceo doug parker will join us to talk infrastructure spending at our nation's airports. and then former labor secretary and dnc chairman tom perez will join us. we'll talk jobs, russia and getting the democratic party back on track. ♪
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currency. a lot less cyclical than years ago. >> that's what happened in late 2015 into the first half of 2016. >> so part of it was that. and the other part of it was we have some unique things in our industry in import materials. so recovered paper is a big source of input. we had a run-up because of -- >> we've got to go back, not forward. we need two year chart. three-year schart. >> that would be good. but we've had some input materials go up and we're recovering that in product pricing. we're exposed to a little bit on the energy front. we generate a lot of our own energy from wood-based file mass but we are exposed to natural gas and as that started to rise in the u.s. we had a bit of a margin squeeze. but we're in a good spot right now. demand is good -- >> there we go. wow. sorry to interrupt you. >> that's okay. >> so you're 56, cut in half almost. were you ceo through that
period? >> through -- i was ceo through -- since the end of 2014. >> so you were watching that going, oh! was it obvious what was happening? >> on the rise? >> no, after -- the beginning when that happened it was like, when the stock got cut in half was it mainly the dollar? >> it wasn't mainly the dollar. >> what was it? >> i think it was all relative to the investment choices, the portfolio managers have. and so as we were thinking about going through '15 there was concerns about increased cyclicality. there were concerns specific to our industry. but if you look at the s.e.c. and teamaterials index we track pretty close to it. that's kind of how we measure how we're doing not just in our sector but other choices investors have. and of course, we look at a much longer view around some of the investments we make. >> becky is still keeping you in business. >> i was going to say. we talk about a paperless society. i know that i -- >> it's been tough. it's been tough, right?
but if you're sitting -- >> unless you're packaging and e-commerce, right? >> you're never going to just, you know, even drones are going to deliver packages made out of paper, right? that's never going to go away. >> so we're 60% to 70 now a packageing company and the paper part of our company is smaller because, as any product goes through its life cycle, digital replacements have impacted that business. but our packaging business is growing across the world. >> is that because of e-commerce, too? >> it's the fastest growing segment. but general economic activity, our boxes get people's goods. we make one in three boxes in the united states, for example. and it gets all supply chain is good to market. and it's a very efficient way to protect product as it goes from manufacturer to the consumer. and that's not a huge growth rate in the u.s. it's a 1.5% to 2% but it's a very big market. and the real benefit to customers is the efficiency of the packaging. but it also starts with a renewable natural resource and in the case of boxes, 90% are
recycled into -- >> that's what i wondered. 90% are now recycled? >> 90% of boxes are recycled, about 65% of paper goes back into the recycled stream. it's a very good value proposition for our customers as they think about their sustainability messages and so forth. >> mark is our guest host. he's going to be with us for the rest of the program. we have much more to talk about. also in the meantime when we return our rebuilding america special continues with a focus on airport infrastructure. american airlines ceo doug parker will be joining us. we'll talk about the nation's ailing airports, the air traffic control system and several jobs that can help america's economy. then former labor secretary tom perez joins us. "squawk box" will be right back.
or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. new this morning, president trump takes aim at trade cheaters. commerce secretary wilbur ross, first on cnbc. >> we're going to try to pin down the causes, pinpoint the kinds of responses that might be made. >> what today's executive trade orders could mean for corporate america and investors. coming up. rebuilding america, to make it great again. the trump administration promising a $1 trillion
infrastructure plan, planes trains and automobiles all could benefit. american airlines ceo doug parker is pulling up to the squawk gate. >> plus retiring a color? why crayola is making a change to the classic crayon box for the first time ever. the final hour of "squawk box" begins right now. ♪ >> limp from the most powerful city in the world, new york. this is "squawk box." >> i know why we're -- >> good morning, good morning. good morning, welcome back to "squawk box" here on cnbc. >> remember what you just talked about. >> no. >> the color. >> i don't. >> well we'll -- the crayons. that's all i'm going to say. >> all right we're here on cnbc, live from the nasdaq marketsite. period. says in the prompter, in blank square -- >> squawk square. >> i won't say that because -- i'm joe kernen along with becky
quick. our guest host this morning mark sutton ceo of international paper. and the futures right now are indicated down again. the one thing we've seen. we may or may not be in a consolidation or pullback phase here with nine out of ten days down but we're getting now it's not just every day up. it's not up, up, up, it's like we were up 150, then we were down, then we were up 60, now called down. more forward -- >> and it seems to be somewhat influenced by the general news cycle, as well, at this point. so if we talk about that and not just stocks we have a pretty good reason for it. there's the ten year now, 2.41 on the ten year. >> in our head lines this morning, president trump is expected to sign two executive orders today aimed at trade. the first calls for a study of past trait agreements looking at
whether those agreements delivered on the promised benefit. the second order is designed to improve the collection of financial penalties against other countries for dumping goods or illegally subsidizing companies. commerce secretary wilbur ross joining us first on cnbc just in the last hour. >> there are unintended consequences of doing nothing, as well. so, as to doing something you have to think about it this way. we are in a trade war. we have been for decades. the only difference is that our troops are finally coming to the rampart. >> in other washington news the president's former national security adviser mike flynn has told the senate intelligence committee that he is willing to be interviewed about the trump campaign's possible ties to russia in exchange for immunity. flynn's connections to russia are being investigated by the house and senate intelligence committee. and space-x successfully launching its first recycled rocket last night. this is the biggest leap so far in the company's effort to try and cut cost and speed up commercial flights.
president trump has backed several major airline carriers in irefforts to privatize the nation's air traffic control but the faa and the alliance for aviation across america are pushing back, calling the president's proposal unfortunate. joining us now american airlines chairman and ceo doug parker. great to see you. been awhile mr. parker. >> yeah. >> thanks for joining us. >> nice to see you. of course. >> we've got a lot of discussion about air traffic control. and, you know, we all have sort of mixed notions about this. i think when you hear about some of the stuff we don't know about you get worried but then you look at the safety record and it's why would you fix something that is obviously not broken at this point. i guess it's nuanced in your view, doug? >> it's not nuanced, joe. it is broken. we have an anti-indicated ap csis tell that costs americans
lots of time, and is much worse than we have in other parts of the world. >> it's safe -- maybe i'm just, you know, i don't want to jinx it because it's been years, right, since one of those horrific head line grabbing incidents. either midair or really anything. so it just makes -- maybe it's a false sense of security. that's what i mean. we don't know how much better it could be because, you know, we don't have have all the input that you have. >> nothing about this is about changing safety. we -- no one cares about safety more than the airlines themselves. and indeed, if what we're talking about is just taking the operational piece of the faa, the atc system outside of the government -- outside the u.s. government and putting it into a not for profit corporation the operation would still be regulated by the faa. it has nothing to do with safety whatsoever, and indeed other countries that have done this
have seen no change whatsoever in safety. certainly that's what this initiative is about, being much more efficient and having much better -- much fewer delays, much lower flight times, having airplanes in the air less long today, you know, to fly from dfw is about 30 minutes longer than it was in 1979. scheduled flight time. simply because we have an atc system that hasn't kept pace with the rest of the world. and if we could get it outside the u.s. government and put it into a not for profit corporation, federally mandated, not for profit corporation where we could get bond financing and put in place the capital that's necessary, but just can't get done in our current governmental structure that has annual appropriations, and makes it hard for change, and makes it hard to make big investments, this will make an enormous difference for all of us. >> so that's what you're talking about then. you don't -- you're not privatizing it. you want to finance it with bonds. and the people that are on
the -- that oppose this, what are their salient points? >> well there aren't many anymore. as more as more people learn about this process we're getting less and less opposition and we're encouraged to hear that secretary chao is learning what they've put in place. in general we feel some opposition from the general aviation community not for any reason other than they fear this would increase their cost. there really isn't much opposition other than those who just like to see big government. and if we can get this moved out of the government funding process. it's much more about governance than anything else, but putting into a place where we can make the investments. we are shovel ready on this project. the technology exists, and it's being used in 60 other countries around the world. this is just about putting in to a system whereby we can get that financing put in place and not be subject to any old
appropriations process. >> that's pretty funny, though. you said there's not that many people left, just people that want big government. i think she won the popular vote. you sure there's not that many people left that want big government, doug? >> look what i said about -- >> no i'm kidding. but there are people that think the government is the answer to everything. so you do have some -- but it would be -- sorry, $100 billion, that's what is needed here? that much? >> yeah, probably. and the kind of investment, again, we're just not good in our government process about making those kinds of capital investments. but certainly we are within commerce. and this is a commercial operation where we put it in a not for profit corporation we'll be able to raise financing through bonds. we the airlines, will pay it back over time through our operations, and that's the only way we believe after years and years of working on it that we're going to be able to get this kind of technology put in place. >> doug, the question that we
need to see something updated. two questions for you. how long do you think it takes once you get approval on it to actually get something up and running? and how do you put it in place with an airline system that is so heavily taxed, and so heavily utilized on a daily basis? >> well, first off, it will take years. but again, the technology exists, so we'll see gradual improvement over time so the sooner we can get started the better. as to you're right we are overtaxed as a -- as a industry. and certainly not looking to increase our tax burden, but it wouldn't do that -- >> i'm sorry, i didn't mean a tax from that perspective. i just mean, a industry -- this is the equivalent of trying to update a bridge when you still have a quarter of million people using it every day. how do you handle this, putting in the new system, would they run side by side for awhile? logistically, how does that work? >> yeah, logistically, certainly would be transition. but the current system can just
be upgraded in many cases to use the lanes that are in place and reduce separation, and still be incredibly safe, and to use technology that exists. and again this has been done. we're not plowing new ground here. other countries have done this and we're behind. >> i've heard people say a few years ago at least that the gps system that you have in your car is better than the systems used to track planes at this point. is that true? >> well in some sense, yes. we have controllers passing paper strips around. we have not invested in technology as technology has advanced. and the result of this is, again, because we don't of course do anything to compromise safety for business, the result is just longer and longer delays. i was in new york a couple weeks ago when you had that big snowstorm stuck there and i was one of the first flights out, one of the first scheduled flights out we got back to dallas-ft. worth 15 minutes earlier. not because of winds, simply because we didn't have to sit on the tarmac and wait to leave behind a number of other airplanes out of laguardia that happens every day.
and because it happens every day we schedule it into the airline. customers don't even realize that they have this -- >> oh, we realize. flight times have gotten longer and longer. what used to take two hours and 15 minutes are now scheduled for three hours. >> exactly. >> thanks. >> have you seen a pickup in -- >> this will help us fix that. >> have you seen a pickup in business since the election, doug, that you would attribute to consumers being more confident? >> we have seen -- we indeed have seen a pickup in demand since the election. i'm not sure exactly what to attribute it to but there has been a pickup in demand since the election. >> even buffett -- you weren't at usair then obviously but you know the story, i'm sure. he even this you guys -- >> i do. >> he even thinks you guys could make money now. but then when we have gordon on he's already ready for somebody
to start doing something stupid. and then everybody else does it. but you think you can keep it going this time and actually be a profitable industry? >> absolutely. we've entirely transformed the business. the investment from berkshire hathaway is a good example. those are smart people who indeed have been burned by the industry back when gordon was around. but understand that we're entirely different now. we have a business model that is efficient. and that can be profitable in good and bad times. we're seeing that today. in the last few years. we've produced profits here at american airlines that aren't just records but more than double what american produced in its entire history. it's just an entirely different business and one we expect is going to be profitable through good and bad times. >> you'd still argue that it's not a zero sum game. your gain is not the consumer's loss. people -- i hear it argued a lot that because the slots are so hard to get that it's really not a truly competitive market. that real free market,
competition doesn't occur in the airline industry. >> that's obviously not accurate. we're intensely competitive business. airfares have fallen over time. not increased. we're just able to do better by our passengers. able now to take people all around the globe and do it more efficiently and still be intensely competitive but have a business model that works because we're able to provide the utility our customers are looking for. >> doug we're almost ready to go here. so hub and spoke is still -- i guess it's a combination. would you ever buy a jet that holds 800 people or something like that? or that's just not feasible? >> well, it's not in our current planning horizon. we're really comfortable with the fleet we have in place. we are indeed a hub and spoke carrier and we're extremely good at that. it's a large competitive advantage of ours. we can connect people around the globe more efficiently than other airlines can because of our network. but we're pretty happy with the fleet we have in place today.
>> it looked like we were going that way for awhile and i don't know -- i guess if you need enough people to go from, i don't know, beijing to new york or something it might make sense but you're not very nimble. i'm thinking about that in light of boeing versus airbus and who made the right decision. >> look, again, we are -- we have -- happy with the fleet we have in place. indeed, we are in fact upsizing our fleet size. but not moving into new aircraft like you're talking about. happy with the fleet we have in place. >> i don't want to board that airline or try and get off of that thing. i can't imagine. >> buy american then, joe, you'll be happy. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. you know, don't have to twist my sarm. just give me one of them upgrades or whatever they are. >> i know. >> actually, whatever. anyway, i'm kidding. thank you. appreciate it. we'll see you again. >> thank you. thanks, joe, thanks becky. >> thank you. when we come back this morning, newly named dnc chair tom perez. we'll get the democratic party's
take on the trump administration's first new months on the job. plus personal income and spending. and then later nebraska governor pete ricketts joins us with this plan on rebuilding america. stay tuned you are watching "squawk box" on cnbc. pause a spontaneous moment? cialis for daily use treats ed and the urinary symptoms of bph. tell your doctor about your medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have a sudden decrease or loss of hearing or vision, or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis. it's been over 100 years since the first stock index was created, as a benchmark for average.
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welcome back to "squawk box" everybody, we've been talking about trade, infrastructure and jobs this morning. all of these topics are at the intersection of washington and wall street. joining us right now is the new dnc chairman tom perez. tom, we've been looking at all of these issues this morning, mr. secretary, and just wonder is there room for compromise between the democrats and the republicans when it comes to something like infrastructure? for decades we've talked about that, as a bipartisan issue. but now that we're actually getting down to looking at some of the details it seems like there could be more differences than we thought between the two sides. >> well, infrastructure done right can be win-win. dwight eisenhower was the person who brought us the interstate highway system. but frankly, when i was labor secretary and we were working on this issue, it -- consensus was
elusive because the republican plan, you know, simply didn't met the test that we felt was necessary. infrastructure needs to create good middle-class jobs. infrastructure bills that are frankly a tax break, that fund projects that are already going to take place, that's not infrastructure. infrastructure bills that contain policy riders that are going to gut prevailing wane and other protections for workers, those are not valid infrastructure bills. infrastructure that doesn't account for the needs in flint to address the water crisis, and the need in rural america to build a broadband infrastructure. those are the infrastructure projects that we need to move forward on. so we'd love to have infrastructure done right. but as you look at -- you look at the president's budget that was submitted, it's hard for me to be optimistic about coming to consensus on infrastructure when you see such a dramatic cut in funding for basic infrastructure maintenance. >> we spoke with secretary --
commerce secretary wilbur ross this morning. he said things in three buckets. projects that bring a lot of revenue to the table. he doesn't think we need public/private partnerships there. things where there is no revenue. that's got to be government stepping in to do it. then he said there are some potential area that are fairly high risk and he sees public/private partnership working the best. would you agree with that assessment? >> the challenge that i see with that is that when i look at what is being proposed it's all about tax breaks for -- it's not an infrastructure bill. it's a tax break bill. it's a tax credit bill. and what that results in is you're talking projects that you would otherwise already do -- >> but i think that's the question. are these projects that you would already do or are they prongibilities that bring so much risk that you would not necessarily see the private sector -- >> we have to ask the question in any infrastructure bill, what does this do for flint and other communities like flint? what does this do for rural america? areas that need to have a broadband infrastructure so that
they can transform their economies for the jobs of the 21st century. and those will involve public investment. those will involve you know, making sure that we are, you know, putting workers first, and i support those efforts. but again, when i look at the president's proposals -- >> i think you're putting things in terms where there could be a little more gray, a little more compromise in some of these areas than maybe you're laying it out. i understand that that's been the pubback. that these are all projects that are simply tax cuts but there is a little more nuance in it than that. >> i don't call building a border wall an infrastructure project. >> granted. let's take that off the table. but when you look at bridges and tunnels and some of the other things that could be fixed along the way, it's not necessarily areas -- i mean those seem like areas where you should be able to get a lot of support. >> you look in the mav yath years ago when you had the bridge collapse in minneapolis-st. paul and then you see what happened yesterday in atlanta on i-85.
i mean, this is a quintessential illustration of what happens when you don't take care of things. we've got bridges and roads across this country that are so old that if they were people they'd be on medicare. >> maybe it shouldn't get bogged down in saying are these, you know, is it going to create the right kind of jobs. are we going to make sure the unions are taken care of and that we don't have any negotiations for, you know, for contracting it out. who does it. isn't the priority is getting the bridges fixed and the roads built. it's nice to get jobs as part of it. and that's always been the democratic mantra that it's a job creator. private sector is probably a better place to create jobs. but, i mean we do want the infrastructure fixed, too, right? i mean, we get bogged down in all the arguing about whether it's a tax cut or whether it's not, and it just seems like it's self-defeating and we're going to end up with nothing good. maybe that's why nothing got built for the last eight years. >> historically we've been able to build roads and bridges in a bipartisan fashion, create good
middle-class jobs. i was out at a military base in the pacific northwest recently. and i was labor secretary. it was a project labor agreement. the project was building a very sensitive infrastructure item on that base. it was coming in under budget, and on schedule, in partnership with the defense department, with the labor -- with labor support, and it was creating jobs, it was doing everything you want to see done. infrastructure done right can be win-win. but unfortunately we have -- there's some folks that are frankly on an ideological mission. i do not want to have any ability for someone to get a prevailing wage in a job. the vice president led the effort when he was the governor of indiana to repeal prevailing wage. i think that's bad public policy. we don't want to create minimum wage construction jobs. and so -- and we don't need to. that's the bottom line. >> can i ask you about the dnc? you're draining the stwamp.
you drained the swamp. you asked for everyone to resign by april, right? >> well, every time -- almost every time a new chair has come in they have asked for resignations and we're involved in a process right now -- >> i'm not faulting you for doing it. look at what happened. i know it was the russians' fault but the stuff that they actually smiened a light on wasn't very flattering for most of the people in the dnc. do you think bernie sanders would have been the nominee? would that have been better? >> listen i focus on the future. but what we know now is that the involvement of the russians in the united states' election, the involvement of the russians and potentially the trump administration -- >> i was talking about whether you're going to change anything -- is it still going to be superdelegates? will it be done that way from now on with the dnc? can you pick the nominee -- why go through the primary process if you're going to pick the nominee? >> the american voters are going to pick the next nominee and we have a unity commission -- >> they didn't last time, did they? >> oh, come on the american voters picked the nominee in the
primaries -- >> you kind of -- that's why your last chairman had to leave. >> well listen, we have a lot of challenges in the dnc. and we're -- and here's the good news. you look out across this country, and you see the remarkable outpouring of grassroots support. the reason why they pulled this health care bill last week was because 70 years of lies timely caught up with them and the reality that the affordable care act while not perfect is a jobs -- is a life saver. and not a job killer. and people calling up republican offices to say, you know what, the affordable care act is helping me get treatment for opioid diction. helping me get prescription drug medication. so you know lies do catch up with you and that's what happened last week. >> i hope not.
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welcome back, everybody. person income and spending just crossing the tape. jim, the numbers, please? >> gas we've had a spring of pretty decent data, it would be comforting for us if this is good as well. as expected. personal income we were expecting 0.4. it comes in as 0.4. the division was up a tenth. personal spending comes in down a tick. 0.1. we were expecting 0.2. don't see a rigs on that yet. real personal spending comes with negative 0.1 last time was negative 0.3. it was up a little bit.
not as good as expected. s&ps were down 3 when we started this. the ten year was 2.42. up a little bit, 2.4225. so not much of a market reaction. even though these are relatively important. a week ago, two weeks ago, if the data was weak, we could say to ourselves, you know, perhaps we're looking at a new economic ideology now and these reflect the old ones. now after what happened last week the market's a little more suspect of the real pro-growth policies so we're paying a little more attention to these numbers, stock markets have lost five ticks since i started talking. >> all right, jim. thank you. the national govern's association says a list of priority infrastructure projects to the white house last month. for more on where these stand let's bring in governor pete ricketts, republican of nebraska and a member of the national governors association's economic development and commerce committee. welcome. my head is spinning now trying to figure out how to do this
properly. it's amazing that this is a partisan issue, too, somehow. and i just think we need to fix a lot of these things, and put the politics aside. can we do that you think? >> well i think that's really what transportation bill offers the opportunity to do get that bipartisan support. our u.s. senator deb fischer has talked about how we can bring together that bipartisan support maybe in a tax bill that would help draw in some republicans and democrats both. it is certainly something that we need to invest in. here in nebraska we've taken initiative when the federal government wasn't doing these sort of things, last year we passed the transportation innovation act that will invest $450 million in our roads and bridges here in the state. as a state that relies on manufacture and agriculture, it's important we have the infrastructure to get our goods to market. when the federal government hasn't been picking up the ball we've been stepping in as states, nebraska is not alone in
trying to make some of that investment so we can continue to make sure we've got the proper infrastructure and grow our state. >> but even the notion that you're saying right now, that is that the states can do it and then the federal government's role primarily is regulatory, people would have a -- some people on the other side of the aisle from where you are would have a problem with that. they want more federal involvement. >> well, that's where maybe we just have to beg to differ on that one. because i think that the states are going to know best about what to do. i mean, we've got some of the cleanest air in nebraska. you know, we are stewards of the land, because we depend on agriculture. so we want to take care of the environment. we're not going to do anything to endanger that. what we think is best is to give the states the opportunity to really manage it, for example, nebraska's applied for an assignment to get more flexibility from the federal government on regulatory issues and environmental issues. we're passing some legislation to be able to do that right now.
frankly, we know what's going to work best in our states. that's where we'd like to have that flexibility from the federal government. so we think that's a good thing. and where we would like to see it is just more help from the federal government on transportation. it is something that will help us grow our economy if we have that proper infrastructure. and i'm sure you've probably talked about a lot of the different things when it comes to the assessment of how much money we need to invest in our infrastructure nationwide. >> well what type of help are you talking about? you just need additional money, governor? >> yeah, i mean some of the things that the trump administration has talked about with their trillion dollar investment over the next ten years, in different aspects of infrastructure to be able to, you know, invest in our country i think that's a good thing. and again if we can put that together in a tax bill or something like that, to be able to get that bipartisan support, i think we've got the opportunity to build that coalition and get a bill passed. >> you think the governors are going to be -- i mean i would think governors might even, you
know, in the pecking order, be above, you know, the house and the senate on this. do you feel like -- that that's -- you're getting your due respect on this? i would defer to governors on how to do that, bring them all in and figure out how to do it that way and then talk to everybody else. >> well, i would agree with you 100% on that. i think the governors really have it going on. but -- >> -- you even know where everything is, don't you? you drive over the potholes. i don't understand why it wouldn't be you guys. but it's not i don't think. because the federal government loves control. >> actually, you know, actually that's a great point. because let's avoid the mistakes of the obama administration. when they went to their shovel ready projects what that really did was it went toward essentially maintenance projects. it really wasn't done strategically because it was done in a hurry. we need to be thoughtful about how we make this investment and make sure it's going to the things that are really going to be long-term effective to growing our economy. and that's where you do want the
governors to weigh in on this. because you know, the thing about governors is we actually have to get things done. we're held accountable for getting things done because that's what the voters expect of us. so we'll put together the plans that are going to work best for our states and that's where, again, we're looking for that cooperation from the federal government. and i will say that, you know, on a different topic, we're talking about health care, even though the health care bill didn't pass, i will tell you that we have seen much more communication with the federal administration and the governors seeking our input on what this health care reform should look like, and we'd like the same sort of opportunity from transportation, as well, because again i agree with you, i think the governors know best about what's going on. we're the ones held accountable for getting things done. so come to us because we know what we can do best. >> talking about rate brain, left brain thing, i just noticed with the dnc chair perez, that there's a way you can look at infrastructure.
i was thinking we need to fix all these things, and for the good of society, and you know, everything's run down, but sometimes the democrats, it's really about a way to create government jobs, almost, seems to be the priority, and then you know, what actually happens from doing the infrastructure projects is almost secondary or third. and along with that comes, you know, you can't try to have, you know, any type of hold-down wages or get things in on time or maybe scrimp on, you know, try to get the best price on tears, it's all about just -- you can dig holes and fill them back up if all you wanted to do was create jobs and you don't even use tablespoons, use teaspoons and you can employ even more people. but you understand that's sort of the dynamic that goes into this. should we look at it as a way to create federal jobs or should it be to do the needed repairs on
all of our infrastructure? because the private sector should create the jobs. it's good that they come from this, but that shouldn't be the primary reason, should it? >> no, not at all. you're exactly right. that's where it gets back to my comment about let's be thoughtful and take our time and be strategic about the types of projects we want to do so that they really add value. again the problem with the previous administration when they went to shovel ready projects is that they were in a hurry, and it was more of a jobs program and ended up just being maintenance. wasn't really strategic about where we applied those dollars. and that's what we want to do is we want to make sure we're being good stewards of the dollars for the taxpayer. i can tell you that's one of the thing the taxpayers in my state want me to do. they hold me accountable for making sure that we spend the dollars wisely. and so we should be doing the same thing for the federal government with regard to that. again this gets back to why we as states, we want to have that flexibility. give us the responsibility. we're not trying to shirk any oversight here but let us have the freedom to be able to invest
those dollars the way we think it's going to be best employed in our state. and give us the freedom when it comes to streamlining regulations, environmental reviews. i'll tell you, you know, one of the things we just had. we got a south beltway project in the city of lincoln, and the estimate has gone up by 50% in part because as time goes by. but in large part because of the environmental issues that we've got to overcome. bridges have to be longer to avoid wetlands. we've got beetles we've got to be worried about. things like that. again, give us the flexibility in the states to work around some of those things and we'll come up with better solutions that will be more cost effective. yes we'll create jobs but we're going to make investments that really help grow our economy. >> all right, governor. before you go i want to settle up on that debt we made -- >> yeah, where's my ribs? >> they're coming. did you see my -- we follow each other and you never answered until timely i see it today. so i'm going to send you some
montgomerien ribs that are unbelievable. three minutes on each side. you've got to use the montgomerien sauce and heat up the sauce. you've got to heat up the sauce, all right? >> okay. >> you've definitely got to heat up the sauce. but you won, and the tournament beforehand, and then you didn't go -- creating sort of disappointed me in the tournament and "x" went much further. did you see it? i feel like i kind of won. i think you maybe owe me something. >> i'm not sure -- i'm not sure that's the way that works. i think you actually have to make the bet to be able to collect on it. you can't just make stuff up afterwards. >> did you watch that game? the one that we bet on? it was the last ten seconds. it was horrible. it was horrible the way creighton finally won and then they didn't really show up for villanova, either. right? >> all right. right. yeah they kind of checked out after that. okay but that's history. who is your pick for the tournament now? >> we're going to do it again next year. >> oh, i got north carolina.
i hope south carolina wins, too. because some people still have gonzaga and i want them to lose. governor thanks, good luck and they're on their way. check's in the mail. they really are. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. when we return, the ceo of s&p global joins us on set. he chairs the bipartisan group on infrastructure and has a few words of advice for washington about making private public partnership work. you are watching "squawk box" right here on cnbc. what powers the digital world? communication. like centurylink's broadband network that gives 35,000 fans a cutting edge game experience. or the network that keeps a leading hotel chain's guests connected at work, and at play. or the it platform that powers millions of ecards every day for one of the largest greeting card companies. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink.
welcome back, everybody. president trump is looking for a trillion dollar infrastructure investment for the country to be financed with both public and private money. our next guest says that there is plenty of demand from the private sector but that the government needs to take some steps to make it actually happen. doug peterson is the president and ceo of s&p global. he's also the co-chair of the bipartisan policy center's executive cowl sill on infrastructure. and doug, what does the government need to do? >> first of all, the government needs a vision. and needs a pathway. i've been watching the show throughout the morning and hearing discussion, is it about jobs? is it about growth? and i think it's about competitiveness. and competitiveness should be at the top of the list, along with jobs and growth and you need a vision, the federal government needs to play a role in it, especially because one of the biggest hang-ups on infrastructure is permitting. it's an incredibly slow process to get something under way. and we can talk more about that.
>> but, you think competitiveness should be at the top. how does the u.s. react outside of permitting to make sure that it does that? >> we need to have a program that looks at the major economic infrastructure, roads is part of that. we have a lot of discussion about roads. i'd add to that ports and airports. broadband in particular. >> one of the huge complaints we've heard all morning long is that this proposal, by using tax credits to get private money to come into this, is really nothing more than a big giveaway to the rich to line their pockets to do projects that they would do anyway. how do you convince people that that's not the case? >> first of all, it's a proposal, it's not really a full-blown law yet or something we can really comment on. but let me take a step back and talk about the size. a trillion dollars is just a down payment. the work we did at the bipartisan policy center, we estimate that there's a need of at least $3 trillion to $5 trillion over the next 10 to 15 years. and a trillion over the next ten
years is just a down payment. and if you want to look at -- >> no argument that the country has needs that are massive. but again to get any sort of bipartisan support how do you convince people that this is the right way to do it and again this isn't just lining the pockets of people who will be doing projects anyway? >> if you look at who are the investors going to be in these types of projects. it's pension funds, it's insurance companies, and what are pension funds? pension funds are teachers, nurses, firemen, policemen, people who have their long-term savings and they're looking for a home for those savings, and infrastructure is probably one of the best asset classes for pension funds to invest in. so we can have a program where our own pension funds, that benefit all of us in the long run, are investing in assets which benefit -- >> i understand it's not a law yet. but some of the plan as it was laid out in the campaign, as we've heard about it here, is that there would be tax credits to some of the developers for doing these things. doing projects that they might not do otherwise. wilbur ross laid out this
morning there's a need for that if you put up $6.5 billion in spectrum for first responder program like they did yesterday with at&t, at&t put in $50 billion. how do you make sure that you're picking projects that are not projects that would just get done anyway? >> well, there are a lot of projects which are going to get done anyway. but what is the difference of getting something done in eight years versus two years? there's a big opportunity to accelerate our infrastructure investment, and one of the things we talked about in this -- bipartisan policy sector was this permitting issue that i referred to before. today it can take eight or ten or even twelve years for permitting. if we had a pipeline of projects, both at the state level and federal level. we had a permitting process that allowed simultaneous, sequential, simplified permitting. we could have a pipeline of investments that we know that's coming on line and have the contractors, the designers, you'd have the banks, you'd have the financial take-out, and there might be projects that we
build anyway but it would be a lot better if they're built in a two or three years instead of eight or ten or twelve years. >> i agree with all of that. but back to the central premise of the question you need tax breaks to do that or do you just need the two sides working together. do you need to give developers tax breaks? >> one of the challenges in the tax breaks, you have the classic example of some projects just don't have good economics on their own all the way to the spectrum where they do. but you want the same people to be interested. just like in a company like mine we have no return projects and high return projects and you want the capital to go in and overall, you maintain your infrastructure, and you protect your margins. how do you think about that in the terms of drawing interest in these kinds of investments? >> the way i look at it is, this is one of the tools we need to have. i think that having tax breaks or having incentive for infrastructure investing will get things moving. but it's only one tool. if you look at, as i said, the size could go from $3 trillion to $5 trillion. a trillion dollars is part of it. we need to have a program as well that brings private sector financing for the infrastructure
world, whether it's through concessions, it's through operating contracts, it's ways to have new approaches to private sector financing, ownership, et cetera, in a sector. that's the way we're going to get this whole thing going. i'm not opposed to the tax benefits. i think it's one of the tools. and that's why if we only talk about one aspect of infrastructure program, which is just these potential tax benefits, we're going to lose the opportunity to talk to the big picture and talk about competitiveness, growth, jobs, the things that are going to really get america growing. >> okay. doug thank you for joining us today. >> thank you. >> all right, when we return, jim cramer will join us limp from the new york stock exchange. the futures right now are a little bit lower. but they moderated. down ten points on the you do, 1.25 on the s&p, 3 on the nasdaq. you're watching "squawk box" on cnbc. 11 years. and two in the reserves. our 18 year old was in an accident.
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earlier about dandelion. the company posted the announcement on twitter a day earlier than they planned to do it. dandelion is the first color to be pulled from the 24 crayon box set in the 100 year history. it will be replaced with a new color and it will be announced any minute now. it's national crayon day. >> there's actually someone, somewhere, in an office deciding what to do with the crayons in the box. and they came up with -- like that guy that does the dow component. you know? they actually have a job for deciding who goes in -- >> not a bad job. >> who goes out. so that yellow is coming out, huh? >> yellyellow's coming out. >> dandelion. the greenish yellow one. >> greenish? wow. >> you know all the colors. >> i thought maybe -- you know, maybe just lost the election. one of the people using the
crayons in color books. a lot of people bought crayons -- >> i'm not into coloring books but we make the paper for some of it. >> it's infrastructure day, cramer. tomorrow is april 1st so don't get fooled if someone tries something on you. if you know it's april 1st, then keep it in mind that someone may try to do an april -- >> yeah, its happens constantly. people put out whole false newspapers that day. a lot of fake news from failing papers. >> yeah. i said the same thing, jim. that nowadays if they do one of those newspapers where it's an april fools' edition that's not that much different than other dates. >> no. >> it's fake every day. >> every day is april fools' day when it comes to the lot of the media these days. >> yeah. i referenced some of our past -- you know, sort of come into our own about labor and d'amico and the previous conversations we have had. now i'm thinking of
infrastructure. there are things that the government needs to do that you don't make a profit. and maybe we just need to bite the bullet, raise some gas taxes and fix some bridges. it can't all work with money. >> no. i mean, i asked gary cohn, the economic adviser, $500 billion, make america's roads great again. john d'amico has all the numbers. $4 trillion puts a lot of people to work and it makes us into the first world country. >> right. about ten reasons why it might be a good idea. and there are, you know, you can prioritize them. but doesn't matter. different sides of the aisle have different priorities. but we need to fix them. we need to create some jobs and it will make us more competitive. anyway, jim, you playing along with this infrastructure thing today or is it just us? >> we'll do some. tr got a bid. i have scott wapner here.
we'll hit a bunch of different tips. >> what do you mean, wapner is there with you? he's with you on the show? >> yeah. >> ready to rock 'n' roll. i bought an alarm clock. >> we'll get it done. >> that's exciting. man, i might stay here and watch that in the greenroom. >> why not? >> i don't want to go home. i'll miss it on the ride. thanks, jim. we'll see you in a couple of minutes. then later on don't miss ceo john chen, live at 11:00 eastern. you're watching "squawk box" on cnbc.
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welcome back, everybody. our guest host is international paper chairman and ceo mark sutton. we have talked about a lot of different things with ip and with transportation and infrastructure but i've been waiting to ask you about something called fluff pulp. i didn't know what the name was, but it's in high demand in my home. what is it? >> it's the moisture retention inside of absorbent one and the number one you're talking about is baby diapers. but it's a new business that we have really doubled the size of with the acquisition of warehousers fluff pulp business
last year. it's a great american success story because we have the right trees, the right land ownership rules. it's a renewable resource and the demand really -- the product makes people's lives better. the demand is growing 4 to 5% a year. >> thank you for being here today. >> thank you. happy to be here. >> we're back on monday. stay with us. "squawk on the street" is coming up next. ♪ "squawk on the street," i'm scott wapner with jim cramer live from the new york stock exchange. carl and david are off. let's get you set up for the final trading day of the quarter. look at the futures here, implied open slightly lower across the board. let's get you over to europe as well. mostly flat markets over there. there's a look at the dax, and then the ftse