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tv   Fast Money  CNBC  October 4, 2017 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT

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governor, i think they're both with us. >> reporter: governor, obviously we see the devastation what everybody wants to know, particularly big money investors, is what happens in this bond crisis and how is that dealt with and what are you and the people of puerto rico looking to accomplish? >> well, right now, marcus, what we need to do is make sure that we get out of this emergency phase. we need to make sure that the people of puerto rico are safe, secure, and that we have the appropriate aid package so we can rebuild. the level of devastation, you were able to witness some of it, it's enormous. we need an aid package from congress so we can get a baseline, we can get a path towards rebuilding then we can have a conversation with of course all the stakeholders in puerto rico to get it started >> reporter: there's a lot of debate between the title iii process and the title vi process. obviously the title iii process is somewhat out of your control. the title vi process puts it back in your hands
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why are you advocating for that? >> i always advocated for title vi i only advocated for title iii because it would prevent the people from puerto rico suffering freiggreat losses the title iii proceedings are going to a mediation type effort when rational people can discuss things, we can get to good outcomes >> reporter: retailers across the world look for the holiday season, black friday, to get them into the black. when i think about puerto rico, i think about that same period of time, starting november, december, january, where the influx of tourism and cash comes through. if that doesn't happen, how do you prove out your thesis that a reorganization of the debt is even something that you can service? >> well, here's the thing. tourism is an important part of our economy. but we were really underutilizing tourism in general. it only represents 7% of our
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economy. when we look at, you know, pharmaceuticals and so forth, that represents about 46% of our economy. so that is really what we're making sure we can focus on. again, the aid package that we get has to consider not only the devastation of puerto rico but also i would say a runway so that we can get government functioning effectively, so we can start making changes we recognize we won't have much revenue at the onset, but we can start rebuilding >> reporter: kelly, a couple of facts that i want to point out there. you can serve in the united states army, navy, you can serve in the armed forces but you cannot vote if you live in puerto rico. >> that is correct >> reporter: and the number of armed services on the ground is unbelievable the big challenge is creating an exposure for what puerto rico brings to the table. obviously the devastation is far and wide but the real question is, how does the debt get handled, how does it get renegotiated, how
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does it get serviced, and what does it look like going forward, because the cash flow behind servicing that debt is really the question for me. >> that's right. and this is one of the things that sort of changes the whole paradigm of what we're dealing with super storm maria over here you don't have cash -- we're not going to have a lot of cash. we need to use it to attend the emergency. we want to use it effectively. listen, i've been in the administration for eight months and already slashed $1.8 billion off our budget in puerto rico. we can make changes in government to make sure it's a more effective economy, to put things into the private sector's hands so they can develop it it is still there. but we need to recognize it. >> reporter: one message to bondholders if you can give it to them now? >> my one message to bondholders, we're all one right now. what we need to go is go to congress, ask for a real aid package for puerto rico, and make sure that we can have the initial conditions so that we
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can get out of the emergency phase, but start rebuilding and rebuilding better than ever. that isser t er thbetter for al bondholders, the stakeholders, and the people of puerto rico. >> reporter: thank you, governor kelly? >> we thank you both, marcus lem lemonis and the governor that does it for "closing bell." now "fast money" begins with melissa lee. >> thanks so much, kelly tonight on "fast," what's wrong with apple nearing correction territory, down 7% since a high in september. but a top technician says fear not. plus how safe is our cyber world women rob joyce, white house cybersecurity coordinator, will join us from cambridge with an exclusive interview there's a dot-com boom brewing. we'll tell you why it could be a good sign for this market this
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time around. we start with the rally that just won't quit. stocks hit record highs again today. the economically sensitive groups leading the charge, materials, industrials, airlines, autos, all breaking out in the last month. are they signaling an economic boom could be just around the corner guy? >> clearly the hope of an economic boom could be around the corner the market is forward looking in that capacity. you look at gdp, and then inventory is up significantly. it's a good thing if people buy the inventories. it's a bad thing if they set on shelves. i won't play economist here. a lot of these stocks continue to remain cheap. we've talked about the airlines for quite some time. delta talked about the impact of all these storms on their business what did delta do in the aftermath? stocks traded higher if they can actually get pricing back, then it becomes a very powerful story what does it mean for airlines
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it means they probably continue to trend higher. we've talked about industrials now seemingly in the last nine months they all do point to economic strength i'm not certain, though, it matters if a recovery is on the horizon. all it matters is the stocks are pricing it in. >> it feels a lot like after the election in november and december where we saw these cyclical names we saw a huge bump, we saw value that had been left for dead have a huge bump up the stuff that was working, it seemed that investors were piling into, because we were in this low growth world with a lot of uncertainty geopolitically, and they were going with the safe bet right now, you know, we're looking a lot of these big f.a.n.g. stocks that are stuck in the mud, apple down 7%, amazon down 10%, facebook, google, all down 2, 3% those are from those recent highs, as the s&p 500 makes new highs every day. one point, in mid-august, and we know why the small caps have risen. we think they're going to be the
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beneficiary of these reflation trade and tax reform but we're unchanged in mid-august the russell 2,000 is up 12% and has doubled the performance of the s&p in that time period. that's the one with the risk in the near term. i wouldn't be tracing small caps here i would be thinking more about mega cap value to be a bit more defensive. >> karen, what do you think the market should there be a rotation out of technology at this point? >> i mean, i guess some of the technology i don't find is particularly expensive netflix is much more expensive than an alphabet you don't need to think that a recovery is around the corner, we're in a pretty decent recovery right now we have a cycle, you get good data, some ceo confidence, some spending that gets us a pretty good cycle. then if we somehow get some tax reform, then i think there's still more upside. i know you hate that, dan. >> i don't like tax reform because i don't think that's very likely. universally right now what is being priced in are some sort of
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tax cut. >> you don't think it's likely, you think there is no tax reform >> there is not a -- in the markets themselves this rotation every single day, it really is every single day, now the last couple of days eats been in the airline, then we get the industrials. tech is a little bit pulled back i think on some of those names, get 10%, that's opportunity to get back in. the reason i say that, mel, we're approaching earnings season once again. last quarter, the numbers were outstanding. they had growth across the board, whether it's geographically or in the earnings or in the revenue i mean, you go across almost all of technology. and for the most part, those numbers were pretty much spectacular, i would say so the combination of that, the financials have actually been participating more and more in this rally i think part of that has to do with, the people are looking right now, and they are looking but they don't expect it to come anytime soon but tax reform, maybe the repatriation, those things are forward. but right now, they're looking
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at the facts and the fundamentals fundamentally, in many cases, you could make an argument there's an upside. >> i take issue with the banks, jim cramer was talking about it this morning, jim was basically saying the banks right now are experiencing multiple expansion in front of what should be a raising rate environment and faber pushed back and said, rates haven't really riven yese. they are anticipating something, they are anticipating a higher rate environment they are anticipating a better capital markets environment, better profitability if we don't get that then you have a problem >> they've already been producing some of that >> have they really? activity has been poor >> you can cherry pick what areas are weak, but you can also look at record earnings, record revenue, record this or that, whether bank of america, citi, jpmorgan you can look at the pe thing but
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how many times have we said, you go price to book and if we go by that metric, that's why wells fargo, i thought the other day when it pushed down to 51, that was an opportunity. >> 1 1/2, 2 times book, leverage ratios 100 times they are now. >> if they had much better balance sheets, the reason they've been getting a lower multiple for years is they had more leveraged now they're less leveraged >> they don't have the potential to actually get more levered and make more profit that's why they should trade at a discount to the market that's why they always have. then let's take it back ten years. they're the ones that almost killed the entire global financial world that we know so guys, i'll just tell you, the idea that they should trade at a market multiple is nonsense. >> it doesn't need to get there. they're way below that
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we have to go. coming up, the head of cybersecurity at the white house, rob joyce, will join to us speak about everything from the equifax brief to how he's planning on keeping the next election safe. how does the pixel phone stack up to the iphone and karen's last pitch on citi was a total home run, up more than 20% since she made the case in june get ready, she's stepping up to the plate with another name she says is a screaming buy. carl icahn is also in the name, ch t w mu more "fast money," straight ahead.
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♪ can i kick it? ♪ yes you can ♪ can i kick it? ♪ yes you can ♪ can i kick it? ♪ yes you can ♪ well i'm gone
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welcome back to "fast money. the 2017 cambridge cyber summit is under way where the biggest leaders in tech and government gathered to discuss the future of cybersecurity rob joyce is sitting down with cnbc's very own tyler mathisen >> melissa, thank you very much. rob joyce, thank you very much, we appreciate your participation. you said earlier today onstage when asked by jon karlen are we safe, you said, yes, for now, but the trend line is not favorable. what did you mean? >> i mean, you just have to look at the latest news
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companies are being breached we've got nation-state attacks on our government. they're on the offense we've got to find a way to turn the costs of doing things on cyber that are malicious to our advantage. >> you say the advantage has gone to the offense, the bad actors here refuse are we behind >> i don't think we're behind. i just watch the technology change and the amount we rely on computers, information, how much we trust into these systems. and it's so important that we've got to get it right. >> what needs to change? >> i think the emphasis is on the people we've got to have a mindset for security we've got to have a culture in these big companies, in the government, to do security right. and that takes a lot of attention to detail. it takes good planning and it takes practice and exercises to understand how
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you're going to deal with that inevitable problem >> when i think about the development of the digital world, the connected world, with all the devices, the internet of things and all of the wonderful apps that we have that have changed our life, i think those things are probably designed by the creative people within an enterprise and the security comes along later behind it. it's grafted into the process. does that need to change within the company so that the security people are actually part and parcel integrated in the design process? >> absolutely. the best companies are thinking about security as they design a product. the best companies are also considering from the very concept how they're going to do the security of that activity. >> do companies come to you, to the white house, to law enforcement, from your observation, you've had a long career at the national security agency, do they come to you after they've got a problem or do they come to you
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preventively, protectively, beforehand does that need to flip too >> they do both. we have great industry activity today where groups of industry, the financial sector, the energy sector, the communications sector, get together as a community. they pay attention and develop their own intelligence and then they give us a place where we as the government can push intelligence, insights, and new concepts into them as a group. so that really helps >> equifax talk to me about it. >> equifax is just a representation of the continued problem where sensitive information probably isn't protected as well as it needs to be but i won't pick on the company. you know, in the end, there was a criminal that did that there was somebody who maliciously intended to go in and steal that data. so the company has a responsibility, when they have our sensitive data, to protect
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that but at the same time, we also have to figure out how to drive the cost up so it's not attractive to go do those actions. >> do you as the white house cybersecurity coordinator get involved here, are you engaged with law enforcement about the equifax hack, or are you just an interested party trying to learn from what happened >> so the fbi has the lead, it's a criminal act, they're doing the investigations we're talking about what should the policy at the u.s. government level be for data breach notification. that's a sensitive place the companies have equities in notifications and liability, as well as us as citizens have an expectation that we'll understand where we're at risk that's a discussion, we've got to work with congress, we have to work with the regulators to get that balance right >> take us inside the white house and talk about election security, if you don't mind. this has been an area with the russian hacking, that the intelligence community, which
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you were a part of for many, many years, said was certainly a case of russian meddling in the election >> yes, it was >> your boss, the president, has been occasionally, alternately accepting of that conclusion and skeptical of that conclusion how do you thread the needle then to make sure that 2018 and 2020, both on the federal and state levels, are going to be safe, secure elections >> first let me go ahead and say, president trump was pretty clear after he got the details in the briefing that he accepted the conclusions of the intel community, and that was really important. but the second thing is we've got to make sure that the next election cycles are unadulterated and that there's confidence >> are we getting ahead of it? >> we are, absolutely. there an enormous amount of work elections are the responsibility of state and local but we in the federal government have a role to play as well. and we've declared election infrastructure critical infrastructure and that opens up the ability for federal government to support those.
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>> forgive me, does the internet of things, does it make your job harder they're going to go from 6 billion connected devices to 60 billion in a flash >> it does those connected devices, earlier this year, poorly designed, poorly secured devices, took down a portion of the internet, the mir-i bot net, we all suffered for it. >> my refrigerator could be my enemy. rob, thank you very much, appreciate it, the white house's rob joyce. >> thank you, tyler mathisen and rob joyce. pete, are we going to take a look at 2017 and say this was the the year that the cyber stocks are finally, finally making gains >> probably. there's semantic, checkpoint, those kind of names. i would point to the fastest growing section of cisco right now which is in cybersecurity which is over 2 billion, it's
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going to be 2.3 billion. i think that if you want the pure plays, that's great if you want something where you've got a little something more to it where you're not just reliant on that, that's another reason why cisco is one of these names that trades at too cheap a valuation. they've got growth where you want it, it's like 4%, but it's something that might grow into it >> we might remember that fire eyes touched 100 a share >> it closed 17 1/2 or so, it had a good run semantic over the last six weeks or so, it's gone from 25 to 33, a big move why do i mention it? because valuation-wise, it's probably the cheapest in the space. the margins in the last quarter before all this happened why outstanding. now you have to ask yourselves,
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we're right at levels we topped out at at the end of 2003-2004 i'm with pete here, at least what i think he's saying, i would be more inclined to take a pullback on seymantec. >> on a gaap basis, should become profitable next year. ahead, apple sinking from highs in september what's wrong with america's most beloved stock? a top technician says nothing, and it might be your best chance to buy he'll explain. i'm melissa lee. you're watching "fast money" on cnbc, first in business word wild meantime here's what else is coming up on "fast." want to know how to beat the market >> anything dot-com. >> it's that simple. a number of stocks with the words dot-com in them are surging.
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welcome back to "fast money. google unveiling a slew of brand-new products today at their big event in san francisco. let's get to josh lipton at the event site with all the details. hi, josh >> reporter: melissa, google took the wraps off its new smartphones today. how do these stack up against some big rivals? google's all new pixel phones come in two sizes. five inch and six inch compared to 4.7 and 5.5 for the new iphone 8 and 8 plus. pixel boasts oled screens while the 8 has lcd screens. pixel does not have wireless charging while the 8 and 8 plus do the price of the pixel starts at
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$649 while the 8 starts at $699. let's also a question of who's making money from these devices. jean munster says by his estimate, apple controls 80% of smartphone profits in the u.s., about 60% worldwide. i also did today catch up with rick osterlobe of google, i asked him what will differentiate his device he said the camera take a listen. >> i think the photographer experience is second to none you said we had the biggest and best scores ever, which shows it has great photos and videos. and we do that through a lot of different means, but most importantly, our computational imaging technology and what we call fused video stabilization >> reporter: analysts pointed out google almost seemed to downplay the hardware, instead
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they seemed to emphasize onstage that they could combine hardware, software, and ai in a way that no other tech company can and that will help differentiate their smartphones now and in the future. others were more skeptical patrick moorhead of moore insights and strategy, his point was that google had to bring new, compelling features to the table today, if it was going to win over switchers from apple or for that matter samsung. moorhead said in his opinion he didn't see that. we'll see what consumers think the new pixel phones are available for preorder today >> thank you so much, josh lipton at the google event it wasn't just the pixel, they also unveiled some home products, right, a camera which brought shares of gopro down you get more of a glimpse into the potential google ecosystem >> josh just mentioned trying to get switchers, the hardware wasn't that exciting as far as the phone is concerned people who choose that phone are really there for the android
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experience your point about trying to create an ecosystem with hardware, that high end home pod they released is right at apple's home pod that's due out before christmas too this is a massive war that's being waged here we're not going to know the outcome for some time because these products are going to be in scarce supply for a it. this is going to play out through 2018 >> and throw in amazon amazon is playing this space too. this is really tough competition. >> it is i think google has been sort of sideways to lower since the middle of june, let's say. it held 925, which was the low back in early june sort of bounced around the bottom trades at 23 times next year's earnings probably grows at 26, 27% eps growth i think it's setting up into the october 26 release for the next move higher. in terms of risk reward, it sets up pretty well right here. i do happen to like google or alphabet >> i agree everything guy said their main part of the business is a phenomenal business, still
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great growth nobody should own google or alphabet for this phone, i don't think anyone does. >> can i interrupt >> please. >> you mentioned ai. what you should own it for is if you believe they're going to compete with their voice platform >> i understand. >> the phone only exists for searches, right? if the phone now exists for ai -- >> i'm talking about -- can i interrupt you interrupting me? >> no. >> okay. i don't think they should be in the hardware business of the phone. they've already proven that to us, solidly, they shouldn't -- >> why, they just -- >> i know, another acquisition, after motorola going way back. i get the competitive landscape of getting into home, and amazon is -- >> if they don't have the hardware, they can't have the voice. >> not a phone >> why not have the thing that everybody on the planet carries around with them in their pocket >> here's the problem. apple dominates in the world of
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retention. that's something that they're always putting down in terms of why people love the services when you're talking about google, they've sold 2 million of the pixel 1 apple sold 215 million even if this thing actually gets any kind of -- it's not going to necessarily dent into apple because it's going to be cannibalizing those that want to -- >> because android has 80% market share around the world and apple has 15%. it really is not about a phone at $700. i think that's what you and i, we're all in agreement, it's not going to move the needle >> you're disagreement in your agreement. >> after she interrupted my interruption >> part of the beauty of apple is people want to stay in that ecosystem. >> sticking with apple, it is the worst performing tech stock in the last month. our next guest says this may be your next chance to buy.
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hi, rich >> hi, melissa apple is a buy i'll show you why. first, a reality check here. this is the one-year performance of apple versus the triple qs, the benchmark for technology you can see even after a 10% pullback off the top, and apple, you're still outperforming the triple qs, the best performing sector in the s&p, by 10%. those are good problems to have. let's pump the brakes on the apple fear i love this next chart, it brings me back to college. when i was at cal poly in the '60s, we studied a lot about moore's law. this chart brings this out here. what do we have, that one-month performance of intel, the triple qs and apple down here we have apple, down 5 or 6% over the last month. triple qs, flat. the triple qs weighing that down the big winner here, intel, the granddaddy of them all, up 6, 7%, just over the last month so what do we do
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we buy more intel. that's where we get the moore's law from we keep it going apple, let's just get straight to the point here. so look at this, very well-defined up trend. what's happened, you pull right back to the 150 day. in the past we pull back to the 150. last year you can see this pullback this was kind of the election, we had the growth scare, tech was sold that's a big mistake, selling technology boom, look what happens. i think history repeats itself we've pulled forward that pullback from last year. you're going to bounce off that 150, a 10% correction. a period of strong seasonality the longer term chart of apple gets interesting boom, we get to see it, the aqua line, if you will. that's the 200 week moving average. what's happened the last time we tested it? the 30% bear market decline we saw here and the stock rallies coming out of it now, importantly, we want to hold this neckline i know we've talked about about
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it before, comes in at the 135 level. that's the purple line or magenta. investors, traders, maybe you use that as a trailing stop. i know it's down from current levels, in and around 153, we're talking about a 10% haircut, maybe a little too wide for most but this is a stock in a very strong short term position and a strong long term position. if history repeats itself, this is a stock that's going to move higher you'll see the trillion dollar market cap the pullback is a gift you want to be a buyer of apple. >> rich comes over, as far as i'm concerned. we'll bring the chair. thank you, arielle >> before you fire off some questions, cal poly in the '60s? come on, what are you talking about? >> that part is technically not true it was a safety for me, guy. i've been trading technology and semis for 25 years a little bit of street cred here >> if this happens with apple, does that bring the entire tech
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sector higher? >> yes, it does. look, we've had a pause here this was the best performing sector biotech builders selling technology is a mistake here there's room for growth and value for tech and financials to work together, not at the expense of one another, which has been largely the case for the better part of the last two years. >> i'm sorry, i didn't know you were about to say something. >> one of the things i would say in this fabulous bull market where apple has gotten an $800 billion market cap at its high, in 2015, 16, a 35% decline when the market was going higher, what leads you to believe that this time is different? because there could be some fundamental headwinds, as we talk about on this desk. pete doesn't agree >> there is a couple of things going for this stock, strong momentum here, not just for the stock but for the sector itself. what's not to like you have the big product
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the real new phone you would the 8, that was kind of like, wah, we've seen it before the x is coming out. you've stolen a little bit of thunder here, you have a 10% pullback, going into the x, ironically, this is when you buy the stock. strong seasonality, this bridges the gap between growth and value. this is the sweet spot this is where you want to be >> i know when you took that quantum physics class, at what point price-wise does apple defy your thesis? >> we talked longer term about that 135 level that's the neckline of that base it's "fast money," we have fast traders here, maybe use 150, i think that's a little too tight. if you had executiconsecutive ci the short term of 150, traders need to think there's more downside
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bigger picture, you're buying this pullback here >> rich, thank you rich ross with evercore isi, in the pantheon of "fast money" guests sticking with tech, one trader is throwing in the towel on a big bet against the group dan, why don't you break that down >> it speaks to exactly what rich was charting today, shortly after the open there was a seller that closed at 60,000, the qqq october puts at 84 cents, closing out what could have been protection that consolidation that rich showed, relative to its top five names that are all down from their highs considerably, the qqq acts pretty well if you're looking out to november expiration that's going to catch all of those earnings, the implied movement in the qqq is only about $5 between now and november 17th. that looks pretty cheap. one way to play the apple that makes up 12% of the qqq would be playing it through the qqq, especially if you thought that google has the potential to go back to new highs, book can make up some of those losses.
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amazon is down 10% from its highs. to me, the qqq looks like an interesting way to play. >> for more "options action," check out the full show friday 5:30 p.m. eastern time coming up, an internet service stock is up about 91% this year, one of a basket of names leading a new dot-com boom we'll reveal the name. stay tuned well, it's earnings season once again. >>yeah. lot of tech companies are reporting today. and, how's it looking? >>i don't know. there's so many opinions out there, it's hard to make sense of it all. well, victor, do you have something for him? >>check this out. td ameritrade aggregates thousands of earnings estimates into a single data point. that way you can keep your eyes on the big picture. >>huh. feel better? >>much better. yeah, me too. wow, you really did a number on this thing. >>sorry about that. that's alright. i got a box of 'em. thousands of opinions. one estimate. the earnings tool from td ameritrade.
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welcome back to "fast money. there's another dot-com boom
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brewing and it could have investors partying like they did back in 1999 when dot-com stocks surged dom chu is here to break it down >> reporter: melissa, you'll often get folks thinking it's like the dot-com era all over again. in some ways it may look that way. there used to be tons of companies with dot-com behind their names and they were high fliers, of course. today there are some of those names around and their stock performances have been pretty impressive so far this year. take a look at stamps.com. the $3.7 billion internet based shipping and postage company has almost doubled in value since 2017, up 91% during that time frame. alarm.com is up there as well, the smart home solutions company is worth $2.2 billion, after rising, get this, nearly 70% this year. and even cars.com, which is a recent spinoff, yes, recent spinoff, from broadcast and digital media company tegna.
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cars.com made its debut june 1st and is up 10% from the opening trade on that day. the biggest dot-com of them all is still amazon, a top performer among large cap and mega cap stocks, up nearly 29% year to date one place where you aren't seeing as much of a similarity is an overall index level earnings multiples right now, the s&p 500 trails at 21 times earnings. that's by no means cheap consider when wall street was partying like it was 1999, trailing pe areas were closer to the 30 area. impressive for sure but not as high octane as back in the day back to you guys >> dom, thank you so much, dom chu back in the newsroom what do you make of this interesting development? >> he talks about, we bring it up all the time, you go back to 1999, i was on the trading floors then, i couldn't even believe 30 was the multiple. i can't remember a stock that didn't have almost triple digits in terms of the multiple >> he's talking about the s&p
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500. none of them were in the s&p >> all right i look at what was in the nasdaq at the time. that's where i think we were mostly focusing on a lot of it, the absolutely high fliers you're talking about dot com-co we're talking about the high fliers like that when i look at these names i see the growth and i see where the valuation levels are in so many cases now, none of them used to do pay dividends. now they're paying dividends, that's fundamentally sound i think there's great opportunity. dan, i know, likes intel i'm in indemnittell i see opportunities in different sectors. particularly in the nasdaq space where so many people say, these things are way ahead of themselves, i don't agree. >> go ahead, dan >> you were about to say something. >> i was not >> you guys are not synced up tonight, it's weird. >> maybe we should start the show over again. >> you guys usually speak an unspoken language. >> welcome to "fast money.
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it's pretty much been parabolic, it trades at a high multiple, 26 times forward earnings take a look at that last quarter. they crushed last quarter on eps and on revenue so clearly there's something going on coupled with that, at 35% short, you say to yourself, despite valuation, despite how ridiculous it might sound, stamps.com, i use stamps >> do you buy them online? >> i go to the post office and i ask for the ones that stick so i don't have to lick them. >> you don't make the ones you lick anymore >> they don't? >> i don't think so. anyway ahead, bill ackman speaks to jim cramer jim will have live to tell us what he said karen is going all in on another name that's doubled in the last month carl icahn is a huge shareholder. the name when "fast money" returns.
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welcome back to "fast money. instant replay, back in june, karen said citigroup was going to break out >> i think we're seeing a revaluation of banks relative to the s&p. we haven't seen that in a really
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long time. it started with post the election and i think it is here to stay banks are out of the doghouse right now. >> it was a home run call. since then, citigroup shares are soaring. more than 20%. so karen, what's your next move? >> my next move is on a market that's obviously much higher but here is one that ain't so bad. it is the worse house on an improving block. the main is manitowoc. they make cranes and towers, things used in construction, anything, basically. it's a global growth story if you believe in the global growth story, which i do, it's got a lot of things to like about it sorry. well, i thought it would go to the next one maybe it didn't. basically the global growth part that i like that we see, manitowoc, we see a stabilization of utilization, which is really good we start to see backlog going up that's really important, because here is a company, you can see what's happened, it looks like the stock has gone up a lot, and
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it has but this doesn't take into account that there's a lot of debt here. as the company has the ability to pay down that debt, we could start to see earnings be really turbo charged. we could start to see rate improvement on their equipment we could see higher prices a lot of good things can happen. one last thing, sort of the wild card carl icahn, as you know, has a very big position here it wouldn't be the most shocking thing in the world to see him do something at some point. so if you believe in the global growth story, you've already seen some of the other ones, the cats of the world, united rentals. here's one that i think still has a ways to go >> i have two questions. oh, you have a question? >> are you allowed >> i think so, i can change the rules. >> fine. >> my first point, that's the reverse stocks, but does that bother you, one. two, who does manitowoc mean, karen? >> it's a good question to ask
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manitowoc. i thought it meant interesting risk/reward. but it doesn't it means dwelling of the great spirit or something like that. but that's not why i like it they did a well built, which was a disastrous acquisition of food services unit that they levered up to do, which they thought would even out in times of business cycle it was a ridiculous acquisition. they took the pain and they spun it off >> all right i think all these questions, both your questions were insu sufficiently answered. >> you are correct >> buy or sell >> i'm a buyer another expression out of minnesota, to the west of wisconsin. karen, i like your arguments, i believe the stabilization and the global growth story, this plays favorably for manitowoc. >> i'm just going to sell it >> i'm shocked >> the stock was six bucks a
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month and a half ago i don't know what happened here. >> look at the enterprise value, dan. but okay >> you should have been here a month and a half ago pitching at six bucks, i would have been buying it with two hands >> she was too busy pitching citi which was up 20%. you can't throw three pitches at once there, mister that's just what i'm saying. i say a couple of things i say stay with the hot hand, one. what does sky-you-ma have to do with manitowoc one is in minnesota, the other is wisconsin >> by the bye, in the after hours session manitowoc is up 5% right now. viewers, are you sticking with karen? go to our twitter feed if you're buying or selling karen's pitch on mannititowocmanitowoc. our own jim cramer will be reo llhe tte us what bill ackman said after this break.
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welcome back to "fast money. our own jim cramer sat down with activist investor bill ackman. they talked about ackman's battle with software service provider adp here is a taste. >> the advisers say, look, you don't want to even show that you're open to what they have in mind if you do, there will be more event-driven investors and you'll lose a proxy contest.
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we haven't heard from carlos in a long time, the company seems to have dialled down the temperature. shareholders, all they care about is, is there an enormous opportunity to improve this company. i think the answer we're hearing is yes >> let's bring in jim cramer for more on this, hey, jim this has really been a bruising battle between adp and bill ackman >> i've got to tell you, melissa, i think he dialed it back i think the bill ackman i saw in the show was about the rigor, the plan, how to get the fundamentals moving, but cordial, welcome iing a good dialogue with automatic data it wasn't subdued, it was just matter of fact maybe that's what's needed at this point for the people who watch us at home to figure out who to really vote for versus escalating rhetoric that confuses the picture >> it really does.
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when he talked to scott wapner a month ago, he ma i hde it seem he was going after the retail investor now it seems like he's reaching out to people at home. >> the people who watch at home who are not involved in the thick of these battles, they don't like ad homhominem attack. i think he's trying to wait out the last bit of bad news i'm with him with the idea of stocks trying to bottom. i mentioned it to him, america doesn't have a long term memory but they have a short term memory for some of the bad
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things they saw. i think it's a longer slog than he does. he's pretty optimistic >> dan, nathan likes the qqq >> stick around for the final call, jim. >> all right i'm skeptical. >> jim, thanks jim cramer for the full interview, do not mid-"mad money" tonight, 6:00 p.m. eastern time. up next, are you buying or selling karen's pitch for manitowoc? we'll reveal the results aer e orbrk.ft
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welcome back the results are in, if you like "dirty dancing," you're in luck, 60% of you bought karen's pitch of manitowoc congratulations karen. >> ka-ching. >> it is time for the final trade. pete >> she had two pitches, we're updating to one. sandy, it's going higher, going to a hundred, giddiup. >> karen >> i'll take one out of the pete playbook apple may be delayed, we all know that, this kind of problem, that kind of problem, nevertheless >> this is for jim cramer. "mad money's" jim cramer don't go bullish you agree with rich ross on the nasdaq, you buy -- >> are you the spy
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>> for -- >> 2%. >> nhl starts tonight, rites of passage, it all begins, mel. red hat! >> moments to nhl hockey i'm melia sslee. se . my mission is simple, to make youmoney. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. mr. always a bull market somewhere and i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now hey i'm cramer welcome to "mad money," welcome to cram america. other people want to make friends i'm just trying to make you money. my job to educate and teach you. call me 1-800-734-cnbc or tweet me @jim cramer enough with the darn

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