tv John King USA CNN October 10, 2011 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
signal. on a police blog someone suggested, neighbor cop is putting in his order for coffee. yeah, two sugars. actually, the protester' hand signals remind us of the ones used by the financial markets they're protesting. >> thanks very much. i'm wolf blitzer in the situation room. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com the chairman of a congressional oversight panel tells attorney general eric holdter country's top law enforcement officer is either incompetent or a liar. and as the occupied wall street demonstrators grow yet again, the tea party favorite michele bachmann said she isn't sure what the demonstrators want but she is certain of this.
>> has no business and no obligation having to pay for wall street's bad bets. that's their bad bets and they can eat them. >> well, congresswoman, yes, we're not so sure. different political goal but both movements are taking full advantage of our precious right of free speech. what we don't know is whether the protesters from the left are going to rival the tea party. >> only pakistan can save pakistan. only afghanistan can save afghanistan. and right now, we should focus on america saving america. >> here's the question. is borrowing a page from ron paul huntsman's path to popularity? first the dicey mix of god and politics. for massachusetts governor romney lom has been marching methodically through his safe and steady strategy hoping the win the republican nomination.
just as it appeared he was weathering a major challenge from rick perry, the mormon question. thrust front and center by a southern minute here is the calls mormons members of a cult. >> part of a pastor's job is to warn his people and others about false religions. >> in 2007, he was seeking the 2008 presidential nomination. romney addressed questions about his faith in a speech at the george h.w. bush at the presidential library. >> let me assure that you no authorities in my church or of any other church for that matter will ever exert influence on presidential decisions. their authority is theirs within the province of church affairs. and it ends with the affairs of the nation begin. >> now top romney aides see no upside to their candidate joining this revived debate. in their view, a small slice of evangelicals have a problem voting for a mormon and there is
little or nothing they think romney can do to win them over. a second mormon in the republican field, john huntsman told he should repudiate the pastor that said a vote for romney would lend credibility to a cult. >> make an immediate and decisive break. period. this kind of talk, i think, has no home in american politics these days. and anyone who is associated with somebody willing to make those comments ought to stand up and distance themselves in very bold language. and that hasn't been done. and rick ought to stand up and do that. >> who gets hurt more by this? governor romney or governor perry? joining us from atlanta. the chairman of the faith and freedom coalition. also with us, the democratic mayor of salt lake city. to you first. as someone who is very familiar with evangelical voters. what do they say specifically when you're at an evangelical? maybe in iowa. an evangelical church. two critical states coming up. what is the objection
evangelical voter have to mormons? >> well, john, i don't think it's a news flash that there are deep and abiding theological differences between evangelical christians and the mormon church. that really goes back to the 19th century. it is deep, historical. by the wearing it is not confined to evangelicals. it would be true of any orthodox christian denomination. i think evangelicals are sophisticated enough and subtle enough to understand that they're not electing a bishop. they're not electing a pope or a rabbi. they're choosing the ceo of nation. when you survey the voters and ask you them the number one issue facing the circus they don't say mormonism. they don't say religion. they say jobs and the economy. so my advice to mitt romney which admittedly is unsolicited and it's free association take it for what it's worth. don't be defensive about this. he can lean into it. he can make it very clear that while there are theological
differences, he shares their values. he shares their stands on the issues. and what the country is doing, john, is they're hiring a new leader to run the government and to be ceo of the nation and to turn this economy around and create jobs. they want to know that romney is pro-life prork family and pro marriage. but they're not insisting that he share their theology. >> yet mr. mayor at a time governor perry has been slipping in the polls, and he's been struggling. and governor romney has been trying to raise more money and keep his front-runner status. this pastor first gives a speech implicitly saying he is not good enough. he is not a christian. then saying mormon is a cult and a vote for a mormon is lending credibility to a cult. i assume you don't see an accident here. >> first of all yark really comment on what someone may have said elsewhere. in my experience, here in salt lake city, i'm not a mormon. i certainly live among a lot of
mormons and it is like any other community i've lived in. there are great people here. it's a warm place to live. hospitable place to live. and people are folks like everywhere except here, i think we toned look out for each a little more. >> so mr. mayor mark the place out west where mormons are not as unique. if you look at a map for the demographics, there are more mormons in the west. when you hear a southern baptist preacher say it's a cult. a vote for a mormon is a vote to back a cult. what goes through your mind? >> it doesn't make any sense to me. it isn't my experience. both in working among mormons in business, working in the political realm. serving as mayor of a community that has mormons and nonmormons. our goal is to work together and make a great american city. and the divisions certainly people know differences among their faiths. when it come to our community and things that we want in our
community, there is not a difference between mormons and nonmormons. >> you mentioned you think this is, the governor should ride it out. governor romney should not lean into it. if you look at the poll, there is some evidence to support that. the "washington post" abc poll. are you less likely to support a candidate who is mormon? back in 2006. 36%. so nearly 4 in 10 said then less likely. now that number is down to 20% to what do you adistribute compute? is that because he ran before? harry reid is a mormon? or are people getting more familiar with mormons in politics? >> i think it is a couple of thing. i think the novelty has largely worn off. i think every time you have a pioneer or a path blazer, whether it is alfred e. smith as a roman catholic and then later kennedy in '60. or joe lieberman being the first jewish american to be on a ticket. there is appropriately a lot of
discussion. there is a real novelty to it. it in a good way know lik people to the process. and breaking down old barriers of exclusion. i think this time, romney has been around the track before. he has run before. he has check all the boxes. and to his credit, he has appeared at all these prominent social conservative gatherings, including one that the faith and freedom coalition did in orlando in conjunction with presidency 5. the other reason, i think, not greatly noted, but significant, is that as the marriage debate has proceeded around the country, particularly in california, in 2008, it was cooperation between mormons and evangelicals on their belief that marriage should be defined between a man and a woman that helped win 31 out of 31 state referendum on marriage. the california marriage amendment would not have passed without the mormon church.
>> you mention that had cooperation. and you also mentioned the forum you held. every time you organize a forum, they're responsible for who they invite. i was talking to him. it is no seek that he said these things in the past. so when you introduce mike perry, you know what you might get. another gentleman asked to speak was from the american family association. governor romney even before mr. fisher spoke, criticized him. let's listen first to mr. fisher. >> every advance of the homosexual agenda comes at the expense of liberty. the greatest long range threat is not radical islam. but islam itself. not a single one of our unalienable rights will be safe in the hands of a president who
believes that we evolved from slime and we are the descendants of apes and baboons. >> governor romney spoke to us before that and he seem to know what was coming. >> we should remember that decency and civility are values, too. one of the speakers who will follow me today has crossed that line, i think. poisonous language doesn't advance our cause. it has never soften ad single heart or changed a single mind. >> to you first. does governor romney have a point? >> i think he has a point. i think that he was echoing what john f. kennedy said when he addressed the houston ministerial association in 1960 when he said the issue in this campaign should not be what kind of church i believe in. for that should matter only to me. it should be what kind of america i believe in. i really blee, john, that's the kind of campaign romney is running. i believe that's the kind of campaign rick perry is running.
i think these candidates will be judged on the merits. not only by evangelical voters but by all voters. and i'm very comfortable that this election, both in the republican primary and in the general election, in november of 2012, will be decided on the issues of jobs and the economy and who can best strengthen our families and restore values. and who is uniquely qualified to lead america in the 21st century. i don't think that these debates are insignificant. but i don't believe for a moment that somebody will be excluded from the white house because they're a member of a particular church any more than i thought barack obama would be excluded because he was an african-american. >> i want to close with you. my friend is a pretty good politician. i was asking about the language from the american family association. whether governor romney was right to say that poisonous language does not advance our cause. you heard mr. fischer talk about the homosexual agenda. you heard him talk about all of islam. you heard him talk about those who believe in evolution. what did you think of that?
>> well, it lacks basic civility that sit what creates a good civic dialogue. in our community we have taken on discrimination. we have passed the nondiscrimination ordinance that eliminates discrimination against lgbt community and housing and employment. the first portion that spoke up against it was the lds church. wave long way to go to bring people together. we find that i can tell you, as mayors in this country, for our job is to take care of the basic needs of people. that the kind of bickering and disservice that is done by our elected officials in washington, d.c. and by others to create the divisiveness and not address the real issues in a sensible way is really counterproductive to what we need in this economy. we have benefited through the recovery act. our streets are better. we have teachers in our
classroom. our public safety officials are able to do their job and are able to advance jobs as a community. we need to do this as a nation to improve our economy. to divert from that i find a bit counterproductive. >> we appreciate your time tonight. we'll stay in touch as the campaign unfolds. still ahead, if you like movies, odds are you have a stake in tonight's numbers. and worries about the mill's commitment to law and order and to democracy. (announcer) everything you need to stretch out on long trips. residence inn. for a free home loan review, we'll offer them a free android smartphone. but how are you gonna get these phones to our clients coast to coast? it's gonna take a little magic. i'm on it.
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very tense city. these clashes took place on the street below me about this time yesterday. the worst clashes since the revolution and unlike the revolution where it was the people against the regime, now what you have is on the one hand, the amendment and its supporters, and christians and muslims as. with many of whom are angry that the military government is incapable, they say, of maintaining law and order. in fact during this live shot with our windows closed, because a little while ago, a group of young men who apparently are on the pay roll of the police, started throwing rocks through the window here. >> how much of a concern is that it any disruption in society, whether the source of it be to the christians or anyone else to say, no we need to slow down even more. >> reporter: this may be the
case. there aren't supposed to be elections held next month. now some people are saying, no, given the tensions in the streets, maybe it's not such a good idea. oftentimes, elections in egypt even in the days of hosni mubarak were very violent affairs. now, of course, the political system has been thrown wide oex there are all sorts of new parties popping up every other day. certainly the competition for power, at least seats in parliament, will be intense. when there is intense competition in places like egypt, violence is tune to follow. >> ben, thank you. joining us now, elijah. he witnessed the clashes in cairo. he is also a senior analyst. give me your eyewitness account of what you saw. >> when they reached the state television building, they were chanting people want to
overthrow field marshal. a chant that roughly translates as get lost. anti-military, anti-militia slogans. around the time they reached the state building, gunshots started to ring out. scattered gun fire for about 30, 45 minutes. and it dragged on for hours. lots of people apparently responding to state tv broadcasts, calling on people to come down and support the army saying that the protesters had kill three soldiers. began coming, began arriving on the scene, fighting with the protesters. some were chanting god is great. there is no god but god. the people want to overthrow the
cops. it was a terrifying spectacle. it was very difficult to distinguish who was christian, who was muslim, who was with the army, who was against the army. they were all egyptians. >> and the tensions are hardly new. what in your view made this different and took it to a new level? >> well, i think what was most significant about yesterday was that it was primarily an anti-military protest. the specific grievances regarding the government's response to attacking on the church in the south of the country. but they came out last night to protest the military's use of force in dispersing the earlier protests against that attack on the church. another thing that makes it
different is the role of the state media. unconfirmed mounting eyewitness reports. i didn't happen to see this myself. but there have been unconfirmed reports that the military was directing the mobs. what's clear is that the authorities on the ground did very little to control them. and that state television coverage at the time ordered on sectarian incitement. >> if that's the case, that's an extremely sensitive time. what does that tell but the military's intentions if indications are that it is using state television and inciting or at least supporting mobs on the street, giving them free reign to do things. what does that tell you? >> i think it's too early to blame this on the military leadership. the prime minister has called for an investigation.
the latest reports that i've heard is that there are independent respected lawyers and doctors at the hospital now. conducting autopsies and collecting evidence. so that appears to be off to a good start. i wouldn't want to prejudge the results of the investigation until it comes out. so i do think that it is too early to lay the blame for this at this military leadership's feet. however, that is what the opposition is doing. many people in the opposition immediately saw this as their fault and speculated that they may have stage managed the entire event as a way to pave the road to further liberal measures, extending the emergency law, for example. some had even talked about postponing or canceling the elections on the grounds that at a time of such unrest, such
volatility, it would be impossible to have fair and free elections. >> you say a lot can change between now and then. are you worried that one of the thing could change between now and then is an increase in violence? >> it certainly a risk. the sense i get now is that everybody was alarmed. and horrified at what they saw yesterday. and people are taking a step back to breathe and to think. that's good. as many problems as there have been between christians and muslims in the country, everybody here will tell you and i've seen it myself between christians and muslims that are very often good friends. they attend each other's weddings, funerals, eat together. but there is a troubling underside. >> i appreciate your insights tonight and your stunning eyewitness account of the violence. take care, sir. >> my pleasure. >> still to come here, tonight's
number. how one company's about face affects the way you watch your favorite movies. next, what is about it the mormon faith that alienates some evangelical voters? hey, did you ever finish last month's invoices? sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie. [ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process
cult. that minister detailed his views in an interview right here friday night. >> historical christianity has never embraced mormonism as a part of its faith. for many years, the southern baptist convention did label it on its official website as a cult. >> on sunday, he told his 10,000 strong congregation he would not back down. >> part of a pastor's job is to warn his people and others about false religions. islam, hinduism, buddhism and mormonism are all false religions. and i stand by those statements. >> it is fascinating and frankly sometime more than a little frustrating to watch others involved in politics deal with the mormon question. tony perkins, the president of the family counsel. i asked him whether he considered mormonism to be a cult. here's his answer.
>> well, let me say this. i do not see mormonism as the same as christianity. now whether it is defined as a cult, i don't know. i would say it is not christianity the way evangelicals view christianity. >> romney's republican rivals also have, shall we say, less than direct answers. >> that i believe they believe that they're christians. >> he says he's a christian. >> this is so inconsequential as far as this campaign is concerned. >> well, here's tonight's truth. the church of jesus christ christ of latter day saints calls itself a christian faith but there are some significant differences in its teachings that draw criticism from some other denominations. the mormon faith believes jesus christ is the savior of the world and the soften god. but was founded in 1830 by joseph smith who claimed to have received word of god from an angel. in the book of mormon, jesus christ is said to have visited america in 34 a.d. joining us from new york, a
practicing mormon who has written extensively on the mormon culture and the latter day saints. thank you for coming in. when you look at the big differences, specifically one of the thing many evangelicals say they find it implausible. some say impossible, is this idea that jesus appeared in the americas in 34 a.d. when you have differences in teachings, do you at least understand the core of the disagreements and the questions? >> well, that is one thing that they look at. the whole book of mormon story of having prophets here in america. much as in jerusalem in ancient times. and then culminating in christ's visit. that is disturbing because most christians and certainly evangelical christians put all their confidence in the bible. in the bible story. that is the one source of revelation and truth. and mormons have simply expand that had picture to say there are other people in the world, including people in america who
had prophets and who saw the savior after his resurrection. >> when you hear the word cult, where does that come from? the labeling of mormonism as a cult? >> well, cult is a very tricky word. it has kind of a nasty connotation. it implies brainwashing and extreme behavior of various sorts. then it has technical definitions as well. dr. jeffress defined it as a religion that is founded on a man, rather than a religion founded on jesus christ. and he is referring, of course, to joseph smith. but for mormons, that doesn't quite make sense. it would be like saying that evangelical christianity is founded on paul because he preached the christian gospel on behalf of christ. and mormons look upon joseph smith in exactly the same way that evangelical christians look at paul.
as a spokesman for the christian gospel. >> you joined us friday night and you were not happy. that's my, as benign a term as i can have it with dr. jeffress brought up the term as a political form. saying a vote for romney would be a vote for a cult. is the proof of this conversation though in the political context, is there some evidence that actually some progress has been made from your perspective? in the sense that i was talking earlier in the show about a poll that says back in 2006, nearly 40% of republican voters said they wouldn't vote for a mormon or they would have reservations about voting for a mormon? that number has been sliced in half. >> i think there's been an immense change. i've been aware of it. comparing 2008 with the 2012 campaign. as it is getting going. and the number of people who were beginning to say that the treatment of mormons as a strange and weird and unacceptable religion is moderating.
the fact of the matter is that america has always been a very tolerant nation. we've had to because there has been such diversity of religious belief. but there has always been a margin. if you were beyond that edge, then you're not accepted within the, sort of the general christian consensus. and little by little, groups have worked their way into the range of acceptable religions. i think catholics certainly have come that far. and jews. and now mormons and muslims are still at that edge. and mommons are working their way in. and i think that this little dust-up we've had recently is one of the skirmishes that we've had along that border as americans, as the people are trying to decide are mormons within the realm of acceptable religion. >> once again, appreciate your insights and your history lesson for us as well as your religious teachings. thank you very much. we'll stay on top of this one. too big to fail dime europe
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coming from that ship. those on board are evacuating. in texas, finally authorities report 100% containment of the bastrop wildfire. it burned for 49 days across 34,000 acres, destroyed 1,500 homes. a u.s. defense official confirm to cnn that systems that control u.s. military drones have been infected with a computer virus them won't say how the classified system was infected but says the virus has not stopped drone fights worldwide. a huge day on wall street. the dow jones soared 330 points. part of that hope comes from today's first bank bailout of that crisis. dexia will receive the funds. that brings us to tonight's million. 25 million. the average number of subscribers to netflix which is making news by abandoning plans to split. it's dvd rental operations.
net flix has the streaming. quick start was supposed to have the dvd rental. that is gone. instead they've decided, when this came out, i should say first it wasn't greeted very well. dear worst ceo in the history of ceos. this is really truly a step backwards. you can see unhappy netflix. instead they've change the plan. inveriors when the day started, they thought this was a good idea. look at this. the stock went up this morning. then as the day played out, people aren't so sure how this is going to work out. that's how it happened today. this little footnote. between 8:00 and 10:00 p.m. tonight, 20%, 20% of the down stream traffic on the internet is people streaming net flix. 20% during the peak times of 8:00 to 10:00 p.m. a busy time to watch movies right there. we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, back to our political conversation. how will mormonism play in the
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governor romney addressed the questions head on in a speech delivered to the jorks george h.w. bush presidential library. >> when i place my hand on the bible and take the oath of office, that oath becomes my highest promise to god. if i'm fortunate to become your president, i will serve no one religion, no one group, no one cause, and no one interest. a president must serve only the common cause of the people of the united states. >> so will he have to give such a speech again? or should he ignore the southern baptist pastor who on friday endorsed rick perry and promly labeled mormonism a cult. let's talk it over with james carville from the veteran republican strategist, ed, let me start with you. this is playing out in your party. number one, should governor romney give another speech? should he deal with this at all? i assume it might come up. we have two debates over the next week.
>> i think it is coming up at a very opportune time. you have the two debates coming up at some point. not he needed the 50 but voters needed to visit the issue of mormonism and come one the idea of whether they're comfortable with it. and i think they'll find they are comfortable with it. it is not a concern for the general election. at that point, these very voters you're talking about will be a choice between mormonism important or is barack obama remaining as president important? i think for right now, it is a good time for him. i think you've seen him with a ceiling of about 30%. i don't think he will break it until those voters have visited the issue and come to a decision they're comfortable with. >> james governor huntsman, another mormon in this show told wolf blitzer that he thinks he should repudiate this pastor. the perry campaign said he has no relationship beyond being an acquaintance with him. is there a burden on governor perry to do something here?
>> it could be. it is an opportune time. it is supposed to be limited to economics, as i understand it. but i can't believe that something like this won't crop up. i think it would be good if it did. i think that governor romney has to have the outstanding case to make that mormons have served this country with distinction for a long period of time. and like i've said, the family, the first family of the democratic party, to harry reid. so it's not an issue to me. the guy that brought this up is the pastor of first baptist church in dallas which is a pretty big deal. and maybe it would be good if governor romney did say something. you can't expect people to be responsible for everything their supporters say. that's a little bit of a stretch, too. >> why is it that some people are either uncomfortable or they're trying to, i don't want to say be too cute. what was the old bill clinton lie? too clever by half or too cute
by half. the question was, when this question came up. the perry/romney or some of the other candidates for president are asked the simple question. the mormon church. the church of jesus christ christ of latter day saints, says it is a christian faith. do you agree? >> i believe that they believe that they're christian. >> he says he's a christian. >> this is so inconsequential as far as this campaign is concerned. >> it reminded us a bit of questions not too long ago about whether the president of the united states was a christian. >> can you just state very clearly that president obama is a christian and he is a citizen of the united states? >> well, that is not for me to state. that's for the president to state. >> the president says he's a christian. i accept him at his word. the president said he's a christian. i take him at his word. >> why does this happen?
>> well, there are going to be these differences. i think some campaigns think that perhaps they have an advantage by getting into this. but the bottom line is -- >> what's the advantage? to appeal to a tiny slice of evangelicals who can't stomach mormonism or think it's a cult? >> or to establish that they're different than the voter, to create a wedge between the voter and that person. but i don't think it will happen in this case. most christians that i know work every day on trying to have a closer relationship to christ. a closer relationship to god. there is a great deal of respect on the mormons, those of us that are not mormons but christians see them living those proins a day to day basis and i think it will be a nonissue. i think this will be a much bigger opportunity for mitt romney to move his campaign forward than it is going to be an opportunity for any of the other candidates to drive a wedge with the voters. >> why is religion hard in politics? >> it's hard. we like to cover it.
the guy from the first baptist church says something. i don't know in the end how much this plays with the voter. i don't know that senator lieberman would be in on the ticket in 2000 made anything that could have helped. i think that we tend to pay a lot more -- the big problem romney has, the republicans don't like him. he can't move a number. he can't win a straw vote. they just are dying to get somebody else that looks like they'll to have take him to the prom. this problem is not his faithful his problem is that by and large, a huge swath of the republicans are very skeptical about him being a nominee. that's what he will have to overcome. >> is that the issue? james makes an interesting point. if you look at the national polling. they aren't worth very much once we get to iowa and south carolina. for now you look to see where he is. he's been in the mid 20s just forever. just a flat line. if it were an ekg, we would be worried. why cannot he grow? what is the issue? >> i think two thing.
one is if you look at the iowa and the new hampshire polls, he is doing much better. those are the realistic polls. i think we entered this election cycle with kind of a belief that we didn't want to fall into the trap as republicans of picking the next one in line. romney had run before. so i think there was a certain because of that. i have to say there was a lot of us who i put myself in this category and that was not the biggest fan of mitt romney who has watched him not push the panic button and it seemed to be not overcoming and leaving them in the dust. he performed very well in the debates and he ran a strong campaign and most republican voters, the issue of who can beat obama is no longer an issue. we believe we will beat obama, but it's a matter of who will make the better president. romney seems to be owning up pretty well. >> that's the question in the next series of debates.
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>>. >> one leading republican now suggests the president's attorney general is either incompetent or a liar. another wants the same attorney general and his justice department to investigate whether they broke the law and how it handled the loan to solyndra. aggressive over sight or politically driven letters and threats designed to embarrass the administration. let's continue. james, you know eric holder quite well. he is talking about fast and furious. when they found out about the program, essentially the gun trafficking program and a lot of guns ended up in the drug cartel s and it has been a huge embarrassment for the administration and on the question of whether he knew it.
he flat out thinks he's lying. listen. they knew they were leting it walk and concealed and from the ambassador in mexico and the mexican people and so on. >> they're write a letter to the attorney general saying operation fast and furious was the most significant case and on your watch it went wrong. whether you realize it yet or not, you own fast and future. >> and by the way f he did, it's something that wouldn't be hard to prove. as i understand it, there is an internal investigation about this and the entire program
started. this happens a lot of times with law enforcement and they hope they can track it up the food chain if you will. the idea that the attorney general will lie is pretty far-fetched. on something like this. >> before the latest response, the response to the attorney general said you are responsible and inflam fory rhetoric must be repudiated. this will be interesting in any event, but this is the official in the united states of morning. they have republicans in congress saying he is lying or incompetent and a high charge. do they need to deliver? >> if you look at the answers he has given, he does look like a lawyer pursing the words from time to time. at some point the issue is not the act very often. it appears to be a cover up that getz you.
at some point they will have to throw somebody under the bus for not doing staff work or not driving home the point of what he was reading. this is what it was all about. i don't think that the attorney general is lying, but i think there was an effort to minimize the effect of this in the politics and that's what will end up being in trouble. it's a common charge. that's what it is. saying they lied is a pretty -- you better have something to come with on that. incompetence is something that
they may view as incompetent. if icea has anything to come forward with, it will be something to know. the charge is not one that is unusual and incompetence is not something unusual. lying to congress is. >> is the attorney general of the united states, he is the top law enforcement officer. if you are going to do it, you better be able to prove it. you have to own up to it. >> i want to close here. herman cain shot way up in the polls. a credible candidate for president. >> they