tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN October 11, 2011 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
get for you on "out front." thursday herman cain, surging in almost every poll there is. he doesn't hold back his opinion. we'll have an interview you haven't seen anywhere else. we're looking forward to that. the breaking news coverage here on cnn of an absolutely extraordinary terrorist plot out of american soil continues. john king is in for ander condition soson cooper. we begin with new details on the alleged terror plot on u.s. soil with ties to iran. attorney general eric holder says the fbi and the dea have uncovered a murder for hire scheme. to kill the saudi ambassador to the united states and the suspects talked about killing him with explosives possibly at a crowded restaurant in washington. one suspect behind bars tonight. he was arrested last month. a naturalized u.s. citizen who appeared in new york court today. new details on just how they caught him, how long he's been
held and who was tracking him. the other suspect is a member of iran's revolutionary guard. he's still at large. iran is blasting the united states saying it has no ties to this suspected plot. the spokesman for the iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad, quote, i think the u.s. government is busy fabricating a new scenario and history has shown both the u.s. government and the cia have a lot of experience in fabricating these scenarios and this is just the latest one. i think their goal is to reach the american public. they want to take the public's mind off the serious domestic problems they're facing these days and scare them with fabricated problems outside the country. but in washington, the fbi director robert mueller said this was no fabrication, no joke. he says elements of the iranian government were ready to spend $1.5 million to hire what they believe was a drug cartel hit squad from mexico. >> this case illustrates that we live in a world where borders and boundaries are increasingly irrelevant. a world where individuals from one country sought to conspire
with a drug trafficking cartel in another country to assassinate a foreign official on united states soil. it reads like the pages of a hollywood script, the impact would have been very real and many lives would have been lost. >> there's new fallout. just this hour, peter king, the chairman of the house committee claims iran was planning an act of war on u.s. soil. chairman king says everything should be left on the table, everything. as for the saudi response, they released this statement. the royal embassy of saudi arabia would like to express its appreciation to the responsible agencies of the united states government for preventing a criminal act from taking place. the attempted plot is a despicable violation of international norms, standards and conventions and is not in accord with the principles of humanity. joining me with new insight on the alleged plot, former homeland security adviser to president george w. bush fran
townsend. and the author of the book "the black banners, the inside story of 9/11 and the war against al qaeda." also with us tonight cnn contributor, tom fuentes, and bob behr. fran, what your sources telling you that's new? >> bob mueller of the fbi said it was like a hollywood plot. as we've gotten additional details, it's really not only that, but an incredible example of the sophistication and success of the law enforcement agencies here. we know that arbabsiar, the defendant here, flew into mexico and was denied entry. it turns out we've learned tonight from senior counterterrorism official hess was denied entry into mexico by design with the cooperation of the mexican government. he then flew to new york. you might ask yourself why didn't they fly to texas? that's where his family was living. he didn't go to texas because federal officials here in the united states understood that under texas law he may not have been able to be held to do an intelligence interview, so he
was flown to new york unbeknownst to the defendant on that flight were federal agents. when that flight landed in new york, federal agents quietly took him into custody, then took him to a u.s. government facility. it was a secret facility where he was held from september 29th until today, that's 12 days, john. each of those days he was interviewed by federal agents. each of those days before those interviews began he was given his miranda warnings and told that he was entitled to be presented on charges before a federal magistrate, and each of those days he in writing signed a waiver. the reason he was presented today, he was tired of talking to federal agents. during those 12 days they not only got a confession from him and we see that in the complaint, but they also got dozens of intelligence reports and leads. those dozens of reports are now being gone through across the federal family of agencies trying to find additional links. the interesting thing here, john, we know that there are direct links to the al quds
force of the iagc, the revolutionary guard. a senior counterterrorism official tells me they've not yet found a direct link to the supreme leader or president ahmadinejad, but that's what they're going through the reports looking for now. >> i want to come to you first because you're familiar with the interrogation tactics. based on fran's new information, 12 days of talking, then i'm done. so the feds decide it's time to go to court and what does that tell you about the suspect and the process? >> it tells me that the individual has been cooperating, that the government was getting as many intelligence as they can get. this is a sensitive case. it has regional implications, international implications, the government needed to dot every i and cross every t. i believe the fbi agents who were debriefing him did everything that they can get from him. and eventually after his
cooperation ended or at least maybe it's ended from our side, he was presented and appeared into court because the subject, the defendant, has a right to ask for an attorney and has a right to appear into court any time he wants. just the fact that he stayed more than 12 days being interrogated by the fbi, that indicates to me that there was a level of cooperation going on. >> and so tom fuentes, if you read this complaint and now we understand what happened in prison, it does read like a hollywood novel. if you presented this to a publisher, they'd probably throw you out. an attack on the saudi arabia ambassador, the king adviser to king abdullah. what's the strategic goal? why would iran want to do this and do it here? >> i think when they make the rest of the world mad at them and either create a situation where the united nations starts hearing evidence against them or other statements are made, then that unifies them politically internally. someone like ahmadinejad can
gain national power internally if it's iran against the world. that could be one reason to have an attack like this. >> iran against the world. how unusual it is for a foreign government essentially -- this is if we believe this -- the republican guard of iran outsourcing an assassination to a criminal drug enterprise, the drug cartel? >> -- uses proxies to make attacks. the kudz force has attacked american troops in saudi arabia. it blew up the marines in beirut. i could go on and on. but they've always used reliable approximate es. i've never seen them go to drug cartels, send money through new york. its jaups sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. this is not characteristic of the quds force at all. it makes me wonder if there wasn't -- somebody's losing it in tehran. this is just a terribly risky
operation. it's been said by the department of justice, it's an act of war. i mean, how could we not respond to this? what i can't figure out is why they left so many clues, fell into this trap. that's just not their modus operandi. >> just not their m.o., ali, you heard bob say that. can a plot like this happen without going to the highest levels, the administration, the attorney general was very careful today. he says it goes high in iran. they can't prove it goes to the highest levels, but can the quds force, can the revolutionary guard, can they freelance? >> it's unusual for an operation like this to take place in washington, d.c., since 9/11 and not have the highest approval of the government. but this is not al quds force, it's a very efficient terrorist organizations and they have their own way to send money, to have surveillance done, to case targets and their own people to conduct operations. so that gives me actually a big
question who's doing it in iran? why they are doing it. what is their reason. and how much they can connected to the political establishment in iran. there's something going on in the iranian government, and that's very apparent. something like this will be unfolding in the next weeks, in the next month. we're going to see a lot of regional implications, especially when it comes to the relationship between saudi arabia and the gulf countries and between iran and also a lot of implications between us and iran, our relationship between the united states and iran. so there's a lot of issues that we need to monitor and we need to watch for in the next few weeks. this is just the beginning. >> so fran, what do you watch for most closely in the sense that president obama's national security adviser briefed the king on this threat. what happens now when i hear pete king and the congress saying all options should be on the table? what can the united states do? and what do you suspect will be the saudi response in the region? >> it's interesting, john.
there have been talk about, you know, sending home their diplomats at the u.n. that's not really feasible. i think what you're going to see, secretary clinton has said she'll brief her counterparts in the u.n. security council. i think you'll see the united states put pressure on russia and china now to leverage this case to try to get them to agree to tougher sanctions in the security council and we'll see how it plays out. how our other regional allies react. i must say this administration has been criticized that they have not used sort of intelligence gathering and intelligence interviews aggressively enough. remember danny blair was criticized on the christmas day pa bomber that's now on trial. this is the fbi working inner agency and taking advantage of their legal authorities in this country to gather intelligence to understand the threat. so i think this is a tremendous success for the fbi and for the administration. >> bob behr -- >> i can add to that.
>> go ahead. >> sorry, john, if i can add to that. this shows that the fbi's techniques in trying to get the cooperation in these cases is the way to go. the abdulmutallab case in detroit, the fbi talked to him for many days. the fbi brought family members from africa to detroit to encourage him to keep cooperating with the justice department. i don't think it's an accident that the fbi takes the lead in a case like this after a subject's taken into custody and is able to establish a rapport and get the type of facts and intelligence gathering accomplished that they want to without using illegal or other techniques such as the enhanced interrogation technique. >> bob baer, as we talk about this, and it is a spy novel in a court document, what's the next chapter if this is a spy novel? we don't expect the united states to have any military options against iran. yes, more sanctions. but anything off the table, covert, things we can't see that the united states or any ally could do to the revolutionary
guard and the quds force? >> i'd go farther than that. i'd have a back channel with tehran right now. because if they were to make an attack on washington, d.c., or several attacks, that is an act of war. we have to get to that regime and ask them, what are they thinking about because it's not going to be expelling diplomats if one of these attacks happens. it may have to go after the regime and the quds force bases and the rest of it. there's no in between measures. this is very serious, all of this. >> fran townsend, adel al jubeir. the saudi arabia ambassador to the united states, just that title been, that's important, but he's more than that. a key foreign policy adviser to king abdullah and we have the shia/sunni tensions in iran. >> adel al jubeir has been with the king when he was crown prince, he's been his fp director for decades. he travels on every foreign trip
and he continues to and he's the king's translator. he's influential beyond being the u.s. ambassador to saudi arabia. on the shia/sunni tensions saudi arabia came to the defense of the bahrain regime. that's really a sunni minority -- a shia majority rising up against the bahraini sunni royal family. and the sunnis -- the sunni royal family in saudi arabia came to their defense. why? because they believe that bahrain is a proxy fight between the sunnis in saudi arabia and the shia of iran. so this will only serve to heighten those tensions right now. and there's a substantial shia majority in the eastern province of saudi arabia. in the 1980s iran and the shia were part of an attempt to overthrow the al sauds as part of the hajj, the royal pilgrimage. that's coming up now. the timing of this is very important in terms of the shia/sunni tensions. >> the stakes are incredible. thanks for your help tonight.
let us know what you think. we're on facebook or you can follow me at twitte twitter @johnking.cnn. could his remarks help or hurt this republican presidential campaign? and just one week after republican new jersey governor chris christie said he won't run for president, he announces which gop candidate he thinks should get the job. first, let's check in with isha sesay. >> john, for the first time we hear dr. conrad murray's full story, what he says happened the day michael jackson died. more audio tapes of his police interview were played in court today. you'll also hear murray talk about how the singer's children reacted to the news their father was dead. [ male announcer ] this is lara. her morning begins with arthritis pain. that's a coffee and two pills.
the afternoon tour begins with more pain and more pills. the evening guests arrive. back to sore knees. back to more pills. the day is done but hang on... her doctor recommended aleve. just 2 pills can keep arthritis pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is lara who chose 2 aleve and fewer pills for a day free of pain. and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels. the nascar nationwide series, for a day free of pain. i know pleasing fans is a top priority, 'cause without the fans, there'd be no nascar.
just like if it weren't for customers, there'd be no nationwide. that's why they serve their customers' needs, not shareholder profits. because as a mutual, nationwide doesn't report to wall street, they report to their customers. and that's just one more reason why the earnhardt family has trusted nationwide for more than 30 years. nationwide is on your side.
raw politics tonight. herman contain under fire for his comments on racism in america. cain said today that many liberal democrats in the black community are, quote, racist, for questioning his political ambitions as a black conservative republican. his remarks came in an interview on a radio show. and there's more. over the weekend, the former executive of godfathers pizza, pillsbury and pizza den say that
african americans who remain economically disadvantaged have only themselves to blame. watch. >> they weren't held back because of racism, no. people sometimes hold themselves back because they want to use racism as an excuse for them not being able to achieve what they want to achieve. >> that comment, along with some others he made recently, outraged a number of african-american leaders who argue cain south of touch with reality. among his critics professor cornell wells who said the republican candidate needs to get off his, quote, symbolic crackpot and harry belafonte who called cain a bad apple who didn't represent the african-american community. last night cain fired back at his critics on fox news's hanni hannity. >> people like harry belafonte and professor west who attack me, they don't want black people to think for themselves. this is why they're so upset with herman cain who is now moving up into the top tier for
the republican presidential nomination and that people are listening to me, they don't want me to wake people up and get them to read the fine print and think for themselves. >> cain also had this message on fox news for those speaking out against him. >> i left the democrat plantation a long time ago. and all that they try to do when someone like me -- and i'm not the only black person out there that shares these conservative views. the only tactic that they have to try and intimidate me and shut me up is to call me names and this sort of thing. it just simply won't work. >> welill comments like that he or hurt his presidential campaign? joining me now founder of the website your black world.com and ken blackwell at the family research council. herman cain says some of his critics are racist. you now believe he's a racist. that's a pretty heavy indictment. stick by it? >> yeah. i think that herman cain, to some extent, is the perfect
racist because racism is most effective when it has a black face. a lot of people think that being black means you can't be racist, but we have black people who have problems with dark skinned black people, black people who have problems with poor black people, et cetera. you even have women who will sit on a jury during a rape trial and say, oh her skirt was too short and you have women that hate women and black people that can effectively promote an agenda that was not created by them but is accelerated by the color of their skin because, remember, no other republican candidate could really get away with talking about race as much as herman cain has. to some extent he's at risk of turning his entire campaign into a big political gimmick because you see hannity and guys like him really using him to say those things that maybe they're afraid to say themselves. >> ken blackwell, is herman cain a racist? >> no, i don't think herman cain is a racist. i don't think that harry
belafonte is a racist because he says herman cain is a bad apple. i think race is being used in this instance all around the table to repress differences in opinion. and when race issues to repress dissent, it is wrong on all sides of the table. look, herman cain is a republican, he's a conservative. he believes that he has the prescription for growing the economy, creating jobs and providing opportunity for all americans inclusive of black americans. i think the -- john, john, i think name calling has gone too far. >> you say name calling has gone too far, we've known each other a long time and you're involved in ohio politics including being the secretary of state. >> absolutely. >> you were one of the republicans trying to build support in the african-american community. is the language mr. cain uses helpful to that effort to have more blacks join the republican
party or hurtful? >> i think mr. cain's prescription for growing the economy is helpful. i think when he says that folks who differ from him have been brainwashed, that is not constructive, but i don't think that calling him a bad apple or saying that he's on a symbolic crackpipe is helpful either. look, people want -- it's as if the african-american community was drowning 50 feet off shore. they don't want somebody to throw them a 100 foot rope, then drop their end to find something better to do or throw them a 25-foot rope and say, swim. they want somebody who will throw them a 50-foot rope and hold on to their end. that's what we have to get back to. >> what about the larger argument he makes, about a lack of political diversity in the african-american community and the fact that many liberal african-americans do criticize conservative african-americans saying they're somehow
abandoning their community? >> one of the best kept secrets in america is that many black people are very conservative. i'm from the south. there are a lot of people in my family who really want to like herman cain. some of his values are in perfect alignment with their own. what mr. cain might want to pick up on is this simple word "dignity." you have to run your campaign around dignity. you can't make these ridiculous statements and allow people to use you as a racial fireball. colin powell was a conservative. to this day many people respect him. i know i do. there's a big difference between the way a conservative like colin powell would run a presidential campaign versus herman cain. this idea of gimmicks and sort of turning yourself into a black male sara palin or a black male rush limbaugh that might be great for selling books or getting a radio show but that's
not what people would look for in a commander in chief. he looks more like a court jester as it stands today. >> is that fair, a court jester, ken? >> that's outside the pale of talking about human dignity. here's a guy that grew up in a low income family, went to school, did well, created jobs and actually hired black folks and white folks and latinos. you know, he in fact has lived the american dream. and the basically to say that he did -- you know, i've seen him depicted as sambo by the left. is that promoting human dignity? no. i'm saying that both sides have to get back to what people are looking for. they're looking for leaders who inspire hope and create opportunity and pull us together to get something done, and i think that i've heard herman cain over the last 20 years. he can be that sort of leader, and i think he, in fact, needs to advance his program and say this is what i'm about.
>> boyce watkins, ken blackwell. the president demanded a vote on his jobs bill. tonight he's getting it, but it's not turning out the way he hoped. also in his own words, jurors in the michael jackson death trial hear dr. conrad murray's version of just what happened the day jackson died. and kids tell us what it's like to be bullied and the toll it takes long after the bullying stops. >> it starts to build up and bad things start to happen, whether you start cutting yourself, kill yourself, develop an eating disorder. it becomes obsessive.
more raw politics tonight. just one week ago he took himself out of the running for the republican presidential nomination, today chris christie handed his endorsement to mitt romney. the tough talking new jersey governor said romney's work made him the right choice for president. meanwhile, romney is doing a little tough talking of his own calling on fellow candidate rick
perry to speak out about an attack on his faith by the reverend robert jeffres. he called the mormon faith a cult. joining us gloria borger. how much of a difference will the christie endorsement make? the perry campaign quick to point out one republican from the northeast and another. >> there is that. there are two republican blue state governors. it will help with the branch of the republican party that considers itself sort of populist conservative and establishment, if you will. so i think it does help with the romney aura of electability and plausibility as president. but it won't really help with the base of the republican party, which is where mitt romney has a lot of trouble. because the base is as skeptical of chris christie as it is of mitt romney on issues like immigration and gun control and
climate change. so i think it's a little preaching to the choir here but not to the base. >> still helps to establish momentum. >> yeah, yeah. >> let's deal with the conspiracy question du jour that is that christie has battered down the possibility of being anybody's running mate. but evidenced today he's a feisty guy, a good guy to have a debate. some say could romney need him? i'm assuming we're on the same page today. the former governor of massachusetts can't pick a governor of new jersey, northeast, even if he wanted to do it. >> northeast ticket. they would be an odd couple on the campaign trail. that could be very good for romney to have chris christie campaigning for him even if he's not going to be on the ticket because chris christie is authentic. people may disagree with him, but they think he's the real deal. and the big question about mitt romney is is he the real deal. so if you had this fellow out there campaigning for you, suddenly the hope is, at least,
that mitt romney becomes a little bit more believable himself as a conservative republican. so it's going to help him out there on the road. >> at that endorsement event today governor romney spoke out for the first time about those comments pastor robert jeffress said mormonism is a cult. >> governor perry selected an individual to introduce him who then used religion as a basis for which he said he would endorse governor perry and a reason to not support me. and governor perry then said that introduction just hit it out of the park. i just don't believe that that kind of divisiveness does not have a place. >> but governor perry should repudiate the pastor's statement. will that hunt perry if he doesn't do that? >> perry will have to address it head-on. he's already said mormonism is not a cult. today his son said mitt romney
is clearly a christian. but at some point perry has to address it because it becomes about his leadership. it becomes about whether he, by not saying anything directly would endorse any kind of bigotry. what's also interesting to me is that mitt romney is taking this on directly, which shows you that he believes that perry is vulnerable on this. and suddenly it's become a discussion less about mormonism than about perry's leadership which is right where romney wants it. >> that's right. romney could have not answered the question if he didn't want to keep it going. >> you're right. isha sesay joins us with a "360" news bulletin. >> president obama demanded an up or down vote from the senate on his jobs bill. as expected the bill did not pass. they're balking at a surtax on items over $1 million a year. u.s. attorney general eric holder says he will comply with subpoenas when issued by the
committee investigating fast and furious. the subpoenas will reportedly cover justice department personnel and communications with the failed gun running operation. occupy wall street takes its message uptown today. protesters traveled from new york's financial district to the upper east side, past the homes of some of the city's wealthiest residents including several well known media and financial executives. today's march was organized by several union groups supporting the protests. and here's one way to bolster tourism in japan. free flights. according to reports, the japan tourism agency is offering 10,000 free flights that people who write about their experiences. tourism has dropped 50% since the country was ravaged by an earthquake, a tsunami and, of course, the nuclear crisis. john, what do you think? >> there's probably something in our contracts that say we can't take that, right? >> for sure. >> yeah. all right. somebody will. you can be sure of that. >> i'll have to write an essay.
>> under a pseudonym. we'll do that, we'll go together. >> we'll think about it. an emotional and possibly pivotal day in the michael jackson death trial. what the singer's three young children did after learning their dad died. those details came out after prosecutors played a tape of a police interview with dr. conrad murray. we continue our in depth look at bullying. what kids told us, what parents and teachers very much need to hear. >> they're calling like gay, faggot, dumbass, those names can be hurtful. [ courier ] the amazing story of whether bovine heart tissue
can make it from australia to a u.s. lab to a patient in time for surgery may seem like a trumped-up hollywood premise. ♪ but if you take away the dramatic score... take away the dizzying 360-degree camera move... [ tires screech ] ...and take away the over-the-top stunt, you're still left with a pretty remarkable tale. but, okay, maybe keep the indulgent supermodel cameo... thank you. [ male announcer ] innovative medical solutions. fedex. solutions that matter.
crime & punishment tonight, another emotional day in the michael jackson death trial. prosecutors show jurors a photograph of the singer's naked corpse on an autopsy table. we're not going to show it to you. yes, it's that disturbing. also today pivotal testimony today from the doctor who performed the autopsy. take a look. >> what was the cause of death, dr. rogers? >> the cause was acute propofol intoxication. >> propofol, of course, is that powerful surgical anesthetic that dr. conrad murray, jackson's personal physician, has said jackson was addicted to. they also asked the medical examiner this. >> what was the manner of death? >> the manner was homicide. >> homicide. homicide. dr. murray has pleaded not guilty to manslaughter. his lawyers say that jackson gave himself that final and fatal dose of propofol. but today the medical examiner shot down that explanation. >> the circumstances, from my
point of view, do not support self-administration of propofol. >> now, that's his professional opinion as medical examiner. but the real drama today came when dr. murray himself described what happened in the final hours of jackson's life. prosecutors played a recording of an interview murray gave police just two days after jackson died. here's ted rowlands. >> reporter: for the first time jurors heard the story of what happened in the hours before michael jackson died directly from the doctor blamed for his death in a two-hour interview recorded by police. dr. conrad murray recounted a sleepless night for jackson who was desperately looking for rest in order to prepare for his upcoming tour. >> he was wide awake. and then he complained. i've got to sleep, dr. conrad. i have rehearsals to perform. i must be ready for the show in england.
tomorrow, i will have to cancel my performance. i'll have to cancel my trip because, you know, i cannot function if i don't get the sleep. >> reporter: murray says he gave jackson a series of ssedatives. but nothing worked. finally at 10:40 a.m. he gave in to jackson's pleas and administered 25 milligrams of propofol, which jackson referred to as his milk. >> i then decided to go ahead and give him some of the milk so he could get a couple of hours sleep so that he could produce because i cared about him. i did not want him to fail. i had no sbengs of hurting him. >> reporter: but murray's timeline of what happened next is under dispute by the prosecution. >> i monitored. i sat there and watch him for long enough period ta i felt comfortable. then i needed to go to the
bathroom. so i got up, went to the bathroom. then i came back to his bedside and was stunned in the sense that he wasn't breathing. i was gone, i would say, about two minutes. his body was warm. there was no change in color. so i assumed that everything happened very quickly, just about the time i was gone, within that time and coming back. >> reporter: murray says he was away from jackson for only two minutes but phone records show murray spent 45 minutes on his cell phone before he discovered that jackson had stopped breathing. still, the audio tape may work in murray's favor. the jury heard murray say repeatedly that he loved jackson and wanted to help him. >> mr. jackson was my friend. i loved him. michael jackson may have had a dependency to substance. i was trying to wean him off. >> reporter: murray also talked
about consoling jackson's daughter, paris, at the hospital. >> i said i tried my best. and she said, i know that, dr. murray. i know you tried your best. i know you tried your best, but i'm really sad. you know i will wake up in the morning and i won't see my daddy. >> reporter: it may be the only chance the jury has to hear his story as it is not expected he'll take the stand in his own defense. ted rowlands, cnn, los angeles. a lot of powerful evidence for the jurors to weigh. joining us the mark geragos. he defended michael jackson successfully against child molestation charges. and sunny hostin from our sister station on trutv. this is played in court t police interview. who does it help more the prosecution or the defense? >> i think it clearly helps the defense. you don't have to think back too far to the robert blake case where the prosecution played the
barbara walters interview. he didn't have to take the stand, he wasn't cross-examined. he was able to get his story out. here you've got him clearly professing his love for michael jackson and everything else. i'm a little mystified as to what the gain was for the prosecution at the risk of putting in all this evidence. if i can tell you, kudos to your network, unlike some other networks for not showing the autopsy photo. it's inexplicable to me why that's being played by other networks. >> let me ask you this since you bring it up -- we're not going to show it. we have some standards here. why do you think the prosecution decided to bring it into evidence? >> i think they wanted to -- i think the shock factor. i just can't imagine what the -- what the probative value was. this is not a case where there was a stabbing or a shooting and where entry or exit holes are going to matter or where it's going to make one difference to
how he died. how he died is going to be based on the toxicology reports and medical testimony. looking at his body on a gurney doesn't give the jury any kind of value whatsoever. i don't understand, number one, why they introduced it. number two, i really don't understand why the lawyers didn't ask for it to be sealed. if they did, i don't understand why the judge allowed it to be out to the media. lastly, i don't understand why certain networks have lowered their standards to actually show it. >> sunny, a, do you agree shock value was the only reason to introduce that photo? and b, do you agree this mark, this tape not as damaging as the prosecution had hoped. >> i completely disagree with mark in that he should know that every single case based on a homicide, you have to show the autopsy photo. you show the lifeless body. they only show two pictures. i think that's completely probative, relevant and appropriate. as to the tape recording, i would agree with mark on that. i think there's no question that it certainly helped conrad murray a lot because now his story is in front of the jury. i think he sounded cautious,
pretty reasonable. and he is not going to testify because he doesn't have to. he's not going to be cross-examined, but his story is out there. mark and i have a 50/50 split right now. but i don't think that people should be showing this autopsy photo. >> look, right, and i don't disagree with you that in almost every homicide case they show one, but in almost every homicide case it isn't a situation where you're talking about toxicology. you're usually talking about 99% of the homicide cases i do, 99% of the time it's a bullet or a stab wound. >> mark, one thing that was also on this tape, you hear dr. murray saying michael jackson never told him he was seeing other doctors, never told him the medication those doctors were giving him. what's the potential impact of that? i assume the defense is hoping it says we're not culpable? >> well, that's exactly what the defense is. remember, they previewed in the opening statement that there was this lethal combination of drugs
unbeknownst to dr. murray, michael had been doctor shopping. that's what the defense's opening statement was. now, i anticipate they're going to bring in a laundry list of prescriptions under a variety of names. that will be in evidence. and they're going to say, look, this lethal cocktail that killed michael was not as a result of dr. murray administering it. he didn't cause the death. even if he was totally incompetent and not rising to the level of a standard of care of a doctor in the situation, he didn't cause the death. and that's what they're going to argue will cause the not guilty. >> mark geragos, sunny hostin, appreciate your insights tonight. still ahead, the secret weapon in the battle to end bullying. how a few brave kids, maybe even yours, can maj a huge difference. >> it definitely gets me angry when i see someone getting picked on. >> what makes you angry about it? >> the kid didn't do anything to deserve the bullying. i just wanted to stop it because i didn't want to see something escalate.
i'm finally feeling better. good honey, you turn into such a little whiner when you're sick. no i don't. [ bawk! ] honey, i'm sick. i can't reach the remote. that sounds nothing like me. [ beep ] honey, i'm sick. i can't reach the remote. that kind of does. [ male announcer ] get low prices every day on everything to prepare for cold and flu season. we're so confident in our low prices, we back 'em with our ad match guarantee. save money. live better. walmart. ♪ whoa! hey! [ dog barks, growls ] ♪ whoa, watch out, little man. ♪ [ male announcer ] when you take away the worry, it's easy to enjoy the ride. hey, bud. hey, dad. [ male announcer ] introducing cadillac shield. the most comprehensive suite of owner benefits offered by any luxury auto maker in the world. ♪ ♪ ♪ when the things that you need ♪
more and more folks are trying out snapshot from progressive. a totally different way to save on car insurance. the better you drive, the more you can save. no wonder snapshot's catching on. plug into the savings you deserve, with snapshot from progressive. just having some tender chicken and some tasty noodles. let's see...south western vegetables...60 calories. ya' know those jeans look nice. they do? yup. so you were checking me out? yup. [ male announcer ] progresso. 40 soups 100 calories or less.
all this week on "360" we're taking a look at an epidemic we've been reporting on more than a year now, bullying in schools. no kid deserves to be taunted and abused, but to stop it you have to first understand it. 360 teamed up with two leading experts in the field and one courageous school to observe the root of bullying. the results were astonishing. first, forget the old stereotype of a school yard bully preying on the weak. doctors call it social combat, a constant battle to be part of the inground. victims are often bullies themselves. it's a vicious cycle, but researchers do say we can stop it. the solution might be easier
than you think. here's anderson's report. >> reporter: the wheatley school, one of the top ranked schools in the nation, has a bullying problem. >> they're calling like gay, faggot, dumb ass, those names can be hurtful. >> whether you start cutting yourself, you kill yourself, you develop like an eating disorder. it becomes obsessive. >> they physically abused me, mentally abused me, emotionally abused me. i'll admit i had thoughts of suicide. >> reporter: "360" teamed up with robert faris and diane fellney to observe the kids at wheatley, why kids bully. in this study more than 700 students took a scientifically designed survey four different times the over the semester. what we discovered was shocking. 56% of all students had engaged in aggressive behavior, been
victimized by bullies or both. out of all incidents more than 80% were never reported to an adult. perhaps even more alarming to parents in this survey, 74% of students said they don't think that telling their parents about an incident would be helpful. does that surprise you? >> no. >> reporter: doesn't surprise you. >> no. >> reporter: why? >> most people say that telling your parents, parents will most likely say just ignore it. you can't ignore it. it will stick to you and you will think about it at the end of the day. >> after you get bullied, you start to internalize it. i just think about my day over again, what everyone said to me. you start to believe yourself. >> reporter: and this is in a school district that takes the issue seriously. they have anti-bullying programs from kindergarten through 12th grade, and awareness assemblies throughout the year. principal sean feeney. >> it breaks my heart when they keep that all inside and we're not aware of it. our goal is to try to reach all of our students. we're not always successful, but
we certainly will continue trying. >> reporter: our studies show that the main reason kids bully is to climb the social ladder, but in a key finding, the study found that most of the time bullying doesn't work. kids who bully usually don't actually gain social status. >> we found that, by and large, on average, the more aggressive you are, it doesn't have an effect on how likely you are to climb the social ladder later on. >> reporter: and that could be a breakthrough. educate kids not only that bullying is destructive but why they bully is misguided and let that message spread. >> there's also the possibility that positive behaviors can also spread through social networks and that kids may be more likely to intervene in bullying situations if they see their friends stepping in to stop things. >> reporter: getting kids to intervene is crucial. and these are the students on the front lines of that fight. they were ranked not as bullies
or victims but the ones who actually step in and try to stop it. do you think that bullying is a big problem? >> yes. >> reporter: for andrew, his experience as a victim that makes him stand up to bullies. do you think the fact that you were bullied when you were youngy, you kind of know what it feels like and makes you more prone to intervene? >> it makes me angry when i see somebody getting picked on. >> reporter: what makes you angry? >> the kid didn't do anything to deserve the bullying, so i just wanted to stop it. because i didn't want to see something escalate. >> reporter: according to the research, students like these could be one of the keys to stop bullying. >> these bystanders, they are the heart of the school social life. they have the numbers. and they really hold the power to prevent this behavior. because if it really is about jockeying for status, then it won't work if those kids, those bystanders are actively disapproving of it or stepping in to prevent it.
>> valuable lessons there were about this special study part of "360's" effort to stop the bullying epidemic. we'll have more reports each night this week. be sure to join anderson for his town hall this friday october 14th at 8:00 and 10:00 p.m. right here on cnn. you can find bullying resources and go behind the scenes of the town hall on our blog ac360.com. still today, "360" raised the alarm about child pornography on the website weeks ago, why is the company listening now? new details in the hunt for missing baby lisa irwin. about fast. and i ko i purchased 3 homes with quicken loans. i wouldn't use anyone else. there were no hidden fees and no surprises. quicken loans is a lot like me -- we're both engineered to amaze. tltltltle quicken loans is a lot like me -- emotional here? aren't you getting a little industrial? okay, there's enough energy right here in america. yeah, over 100 years worth. okay, so you mean you just ignore the environment.
actually, it's cleaner. and, it provides jobs. and it helps our economy. okay, i'm listening. [announcer] at conoco phillips we're helping power america's economy with cleaner affordable natural gas... more jobs, less emissions, a good answer for everyone. so, by reducing the impact of production... and protecting our land and water... i might get a job once we graduate. dangerous plaque that can build up in arteries over time... high cholesterol is a major factor. but these other health factors can also contribute to plaque buildup. so if you have high cholesterol and any of these other health factors... it's even more important to get your cholesterol where your doctor wants. talk to your doctor about crestor. when diet and exercise alone aren't enough... adding crestor can lower bad cholesterol by up to 52%. and crestor is proven to slow plaque buildup in arteries. crestor is not right for everyone, like people with liver disease... or women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant.
simple blood tests will check for liver problems. tell your doctor about other medicines you're taking... or if you have muscle pain or weakness. that could be a sign of serious side effects. ask your doctor about high cholesterol... plaque buildup... and if crestor is right for you. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help.
down its site jailbait. this after the fbi received a complaint that jailbait was violating child pornography laws. 360 aired concerns about the flight just last month. the hunt for 10-month-old lisa irwin focused on an abandoned house just blocks from her home. kansas city firefighters drained a backyard well and searched it three times but found no evidence. the baby was reported missing more than a week ago. in aruba, the attorney for american gary giordano demanded his immediate release. he's being held in the disappearance of robyn gardner last seen vacationing with him on august 2nd. bigfoot lives in the russian tundra, to be exact. after a day-long conference in the region scientists and yeti enthusiasts say they are 95% certain what many call a myth actually xis. and john, their evidence, hairs, footprints and are