tv Piers Morgan Tonight CNN October 20, 2011 12:00am-1:00am PDT
running for president and he says, before i run for president, i'm going to tell you all of the terrible things that i've done so the press doesn't find out about it later. you read these things and think, wow, mark twain, if he were on twitter, would he be following me. >> i will add no comment at all. andy, thank you so much for coming in. >> thank you, erin. >> thanks for watching. tonight, the man of the hour for the hour. you know about his 9-9-9 tax plan. >> this is an example of mixing apples and oranges. the state tax is an apple. we are replacing the current tax code with oranges. >> border fences, 20 feet high, barbed wire, going to be electrified. and there's going to be a sign on the other side that says, it will kill you. >> and, of course, his love for pizza. >> do you actually like pizza? >> yes, i love pizza9.
>> tonight, the man up close and personal. >> my mom is probably up in heaven going my, my, my. my dad is probably up in heaven going, that's my boy. >> this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. i'm in las vegas at the sister resort to the venetian. the republican debate last night was pretty lively. and one of the live leanne tag nifts is with me tonight. hr man cane. that was some punch out last night. >> well, let's just say that it gotten ner jet particular and a little bit of fireworks. >> did you worry that rick perry was about to swing one? >> i was getting ready to referee and break them up. i was going, man, have they really gotten into it. but i think that they both came in with the intention of going
after each other. they did it the last time. you can just tell that they are stout and say, go after them on this, on this, on this. i don't spend time doing that. you know what i spend time doing? preparing to talk about solutions. and that's why i just leaned back and let the fireworks go back and forth. >> here's what i think about you that is fascinating. you've come not out of know where you've certainly been a surprise in the last month. what people are saying is, who is hr man cane? who is he really away from the slick? because you're good with the talk and you're good with the walk. you know where i'm going. >> the walk and the talk? >> yeah. the gift of the gab, as my grandma would say. but what is the real herman cain like? how would you like people to know the real you?
>> the real me starts with a man of faith, a man that believes in family and believes in the future of this country which is one of the reasons why i'm running for president. my faith has been a big part of me all my life. joined the church when i was 10 years old. my parents took us to church. they didn't send us to church. so faith is a big part. but therefore i'm driven by not only goals, objectives, and dreams, but what i feel my calling is supposed to be. i've always done that. whenever i've had to make a very serious decision career-wise, i've always relied upon my faith, along with my wife, in order to make that decision. >> what is your calling right now? why do you feel this burning desire to be president? many people view the most thankless jobs in the world? >> right. my calling is to make a difference.
and i have done this all my life. i never dreamed that i would have a calling to make a difference at this level. but it really goes back to 1999 when my first grandchild was born and i looked at her face and the first thought that went through my mind was, what do i do to make this a better nation and a better world? i didn't know the answer then. and it took 12 years for this journey to unfold. a lot of things have happened since then. i ran for the united states senate in 2004, came in impressive second. >> you said "impressive second"? >> impressive second. >> is there ever an impressive second? >> yes, there is an impressive second. >> so you're not really a politician. if you're a footballer, you don't say i came in an impressive second.
some would say a disastrous second because you didn't win. >> i came in an impressive second. >> an unimpressive second. >> because i almost pulled it off. i came within 2 percentage points. >> but you won't be happy if you almost become the nominee? >> no. >> america right now can't afford to have a leader. >> yep. >> who thinks that coming second is good enough. >> absolutely. >> he needs a winner. >> and that's why i'm running. i respect all of the candidates. >> who would you respect more than others? >> well, i would say newt gingrich and mitt romney that i would feel comfortable if i did not get it. but i have a lot of confidence in the type of job they would
do. >> and who do you have the least respect for? >> let's just stick with the one that i have the most respect for. >> no. come on, herman. >> i don't believe representative ron paul would be a good president. >> why? >> because most of his ideas and positions are eliminate rather than fix. we need to fix a lot of things in this country. i don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bath water. we have more things that we can fix than things that we can do away with. >> michele bachmann, rick perry are the pea party candidates. you would imagine they would be down the political route more than you would. you haven't named them in either category, respected or disrespected. why not? >> because most of my career in addition to running organizations, turning around businesses, i have studied, written a lot, and spoken on the
topic of leadership. so after six debates and after listening to them do interviews, i have formulated my opinions about them related to their leadership ability because that's the biggest thing that you need to bring to that job. >> what's your conclusions about rick perry and michele bachmann? >> when i lessen to their answers to questions, most of the time they get off track because they either don't answer the question or are given a mini -- >> it's interesting that you say that. because watching you, if you don't mind me say, get yourself into a little bit of a whole over the whole issue whether you negotiate with terrorists. i watched your review in "the colleague" and you clearly answered in the moment as if you would, you would have released guantanamo bay inmates, al qaeda and otherwise for the american soldier.
>> yeah. >> and then later you decided that you wouldn't. and then you made a mistake? >> i misspoke. >> did you misspeak or make a mistake? >> i misspoke. here's why i misspoke. we were talking about the situation in israel. okay. and the point that i was making, was simply, if i was prime minister netanyahu, i'm sure he had a lot of -- >> here's what i want to say. you're a straight talker. the reason people like you, the reason you're gathering momentum, people say to me, herman cain will give you a straight answer. >> yes. >> what worries me, as you get more and more popular, you're starting to think, whoa, i've got a chance here, so you unfortunately have to become a little more political. >> that is a risk but i'm not going to do that. >> let me ask you a straight question. >> yes. >> was benjamin netanyahu right
to swap one of his people for over 1,000 palestinians? it's not really a question of, you haven't seen all of the facts or you don't know what he had to study. it's a basic transfer. >> i disagree. >> could you be american president and sit on these hot issues and say, i don't know? >> piers, for me to say whether benjamin netanyahu was right or wrong based only on the open picks of it is not good judgment. that's why i'm comfortable saying i misspoke about the gitmo situation because -- >> ron paul made quite a big point, didn't he? in a way, there's a lot of negotiating that goes on.
would you be happy if you ran for president in afghanistan, for military leaders to continue to negotiate and paying taliban leaders if they felt that it was for the greater good of not necessarily winning the war in afghanistan, but winning the battle against terrorism? >> if the commanders on the ground told me that that was a tactic, that they saw with an official, i would approve of it. >> all because of the taliban are terrorists? >> yes, the taliban are terrorists. >> if you negotiate with them in any capacity, aren't you negotiating terror? >> well, some of the people doing these things, there are citizens that they are converting to basically be on our side. it's not always negotiating with a terrorist. it's negotiating with someone who may be sympathetic to the taliban and then they come over on our side and are supportive of what we're doing.
it's not a clear black and white situation unless you know more specifics. >> do you think being the president, now you're getting nearer to this and you have to consider the genuine possibility that you might be. other people are looking at you thinking, what kind of leader will he be, ethnically, morally as you get closer and have to start to wrestle with all of these dilemmas? >> no. and it's because of my approach to leadership and my approach to organization. if you surround yourself with the right people and you have a solid organizational structure, which i've always done, and you have what i call guiding principles, every organization that i have headed up, that will help me not to micromanage. you can't micromanage being president of the united states of america. you have to have people that understand your philosophy and who are able to execute some of
the strategies and things that you want to do. >> we're talking philosophy. i want to take a short break and come back to you, take you right back to where it all started for you, herman cain, the kind of background that you had i think drives you today. >> yes. [ male announcer ] it's true... consumers er wanchai ferry orange chicken... over p.f. chang's home menu orange chicken women men and uh pandas... elbows mmm [ male announcer ] wanchai ferry, try it yourself. [ gnome ] awwwwwwww. i just feel bloody awful. she told tiffany, stephanie, jenny and becky that she was coming to a place like this! but somebody didn't book with travelocity, with 24/7 customer support to help move them to the pool daddy promised! look at me, i'm swimming! ♪ [ gnome ] somebody, get her a pony! [ female announcer ] the travelocity guarantee. if your booking's not right, we'll help make it right, right away.
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many african-americans have been brainwashed into not being open-minded and considering a point of view. i have been that same because i am running for the republican nomination as conservative. so it's just brainwashing and people not being open-minded. pure and simple. back with my special guest, herman cain. provocative, inflammatory in many ways, presumably deliberately designed to stir people up to create a debate. were you taken aback by the reaction? >> i was taken aback by the reaction. considering the fact that i was answering wolf blitzer's question, why do so many black americans vote democrat?
and i made the statement, because a lot of them are brainwashed into not even considering the conservative or republican point of view or a conservative or republican candidate. but the good news is, a lot of black americans are thinking for themselves and they are getting better and to consider but i don't back down from that word. because when you have people who will not even consider an alternative idea or consider someone who might not exactly agree with them ideological, yeah, i call that brainwashing. >> i've had a lot of guests on very recently getting very hot under the collar about the tea party. morgan freeman and others talk black american. i know you don't like the phrase, african-american. i'm going to ask you why in a moment. but black americans leading black americans who say the tea party is racist. and i know that your fairly humorous response is to say, i
looked in the mirror and i appear to be a black man, which i get and you're totally how do you deal with that as a black man who is now leading the tea party charge, how do you deal with the element in the tea party that is overly racist? >> let me say that my experience as a man, there is no more a racist element in the tea party than there is in the general population at large. it isn't. it is not -- if that is -- it's not. this is the biggest misperception. i spoke at the biggest tea party event that i ever spoke at april 15th, 2009. i have spoken at hundreds of tea parties. it's not a racist organization. >> what do you say to morgan freeman, to harry belafonte who have been quite vocal about
this? >> i say, go to a tea party. i doubt if they have ever been. >> i don't think they want to go. >> i'll go with them and provide some ground cover for them if they think it's a terrorist racist organization. >> let me take you back to your early days. very, very -- you said it wasn't even poverty that came up. it was poor. which is even worst with poverty. >> you did that good. >> did i say it right? >> you did it good. >> so how poor was it? >> well, when your dad was working very, very hard, and we could only get lunch money one day a week to go to grade school, and the other four days our lunch consisted of whatever my mother could scrape together from the dinner the night before, we would have sandwiches with no meat, we might have
sandwiches with jelly or -- i mean, that was fine. it was filling. but they couldn't afford to give us a 25-cent coin for lunch money and it was just my brother and i. >> what do you remember about that, the fact that you had so little? >> what i remember about having so little is we appreciated what little we had. we were thrilled when we could buy lunch on fridays with the rest of the kids. it wasn't that it was that big of a deal. friday's lunch was usually a hot dog, apple, and carton of milk but on that one day we could go eat at the cafeteria with the other kids. >> is that why you are so tough on the poor today? do you feel by comparison, most of the people calling themselves poor, have no idea what the kind of poverty that so many millions of americans had to endure that you did? >> i would have to say that is
true but i don't want to overgeneralize. there are a lot of people who really stuck in whatever their economic situation is but i also have to believe that there are some people who don't take advantage of some of the opportunities that they could go out there and get. those are the ones that i have the least amount of patience for. >> is modern america, a modern society, is it spoiled? has it been spoiled? >> some of the population has been spoiled. i happen to think that those demonstrated on wall street are spoiled. they are spoiled and manipulated because i happen to believe that there was a coordinated effort to create all of this chaos and all of this distraction to cover for the failed policies of the obama administration. >> i found this fascinating yesterday in the debate. you got the biggest cheer of the night when you directly attacked the occupy wall street protests.
i was amazed by that. >> yeah. >> they had a good night at the casino. but a surprising moment, i thought, to see you get a real ovation for that attack and you kind of steered it away from not necessarily the people themselves, go outside the white house, you said. go and protest against barack obama, against his administration. >> right. >> and i was like, come off it. thank you don't -- honestly, i don't believe that you believe that the banking community of america is as blameless as you're pretending them to be. >> i didn't say that. i never said that. >> you were kind of -- talking about manipulation, you were kind of steering everyone to think, it's not these guys, it's these guys. >> no. first of all, i wouldn't defend the banks because i happen to think that the banks are part of the problem. they had to make sure that the business was run. i was not defending the business
or wall street. what i was saying is that they have the frustration directed at the wrong place. >> why? i agree with ron paul. this whole subprime mortgage scandal was a bunch of wealthy bankers effectively preying on the most vulnerable americans of society. you are saying to people, i know you lost your home. i know you probably lost your job. i know you've got no money. it's probably mainly your fault. and it is not your fault. it's barack obama's. what about these guys? >> those are not the people that were protesting on wall street. >> some of them are. >> no. >> why? >> i know some of these people. the 14 million who cannot find a job. the underemployed. you know what they are doing? they are still looking for a job and they can't find one. i know people like this, piers. they don't have time to make a social message on wall street. they are looking every day.
some of them are my relatives that i have empathy for or feel sorry for because they can't find work. so this is why i'm so passionate when i say, direct your frustration over at the white house because of the failed policies. >> but i bet if i sat down with your family members that you're talking about now and said, how do you feel that nobody in the banking community of america has ever been properly held to account for what they did? they would say it's outrageous? >> well, piers, the problem is multilevel. first of all, i didn't agree with the government bailing out jpmorgan and the big banks on wall streets. i don't believe in too big to fail. secondly, one of the bigger problems that led to this whole thing, are we working on the right problem, was fannie mae and freddie mac.
and because fannie mae and freddie mac was corrupt at the core, you know, two of the people that probably should have gone to jail first, barney frank and chris dodd. because their committees had oversight of fannie mae and freddie mac and it's documented that they turned the other way, put it under the rug. they didn't do their job. >> give me a very quick pie. here's a pie. how much is obama's fault, how much is wall street's a fault, how much is the fault of the people themselves? >> i would say that 50% of it is obama's fault, 25% of it is wall street's fault and 25% of it is the individual's fault. >> that's a straight answer, from a politician. >> i'm not a politician. >> thank you for reminding me. i need a break to recover from that honest answer from a near politician. when we come back, i want to talk about your views on the issues. it's going to get personal.
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>> back with herman cain, i want to get your personal views, is the all encompassing theme of this subject. first of all, let's talk about homosexuality. is that wrong? do you think it's a sin? >> i think it's a sin because of my biblical beliefs and although people don't agree with me, i think it's a personal choice. >> you believe that? >> i believe that. >> you think people sit at home and say, i want to be homosexual? >> i'm going to turn it around on you. what does science show? show me evidence other than opinion and you might cause me to reconsider that. >> the idea that -- >> where is the evidence? >> you're a commonsense guy. you genuinely believe that millions of americans wake up in
their late teens normally and go, you know what, i feel like being a homosexual? you don't believe that, do you? >> you haven't given me any evidence to believe otherwise. >> human instinct has to be that it's natural instinct. >> so it's your gut instinct versus my gut instincts. i respect their right to make that choice. i don't bash them. i respect them to have the right to make that choice. >> it would be like a gay person saying, herman, you made a choice to be black. >> you know that's not the case. >> i don't think homosexual washes off. >> well, maybe you were right. >> you concede i might be right?
>> you might be right but what i'm saying is, this is just my opinion. >> abortion. what's your view of abortion? >> i believe that life begins at conception and abortion, under no circumstances, and here's why. >> no circumstances? >> no circumstances. >> because many of your fellow candidates -- some of them -- they qualify that. >> they qualify that. >> rape and incest. >> rape and incest. >> are you honestly saying -- it's a tricky question, i know you have children, grandchildren. if one your female grandchildren was raped, you would honestly want her to bring up that baby as her own? >> you're mixing two things here, piers? >> why? >> you're mixing -- >> that's what it comes down to. >> it comes down to, it's not the government's role or anybody's role to make that decision. secondly, if you look at the statistical incidents, you're not talking about that number.
what i'm saying is it is ultimately gets down to a choice that that family or that mother has to make. not me as president, not some politician, not a bureaucrat. it gets down to that family. and whatever they decide, they decide. i shouldn't have to tell them what decision to make for such a sensitive issue. >> you might be president. you can't hide behind the mask, if you don't mind me saying, the pizza guy, you might be the president of united states. your views on this become much more important. they become a directive to the nation. >> no, they don't. i can have an issue on a opinion without it being a directive on the nation. the nation shouldn't be trying to tell people everything to do, especially when it comes to social decisions that they need to make.
>> that's a very interesting departure. >> yes. >> from the normal politics. >> exactly. >> you got into hot water about the whole issue of muslims and their potential cabinet. >> yes. >> and you kind of flip-flopped a bit. i think you would concede, you've backtracked? >> many people call it black flop. >> what would you call it? >> the explaining of my content. >> you either flip-flop or backtrack. it's all or nothing. >> initially it appeared you would not feel comfortable, your words, of having a muslim in -- >> exactly. and this is an example of where i spoke too quick because i'm thinking about extremists. not all muslims, i do recognize there are peaceful muslims and there are extremists. at the moment that i was asked that question, i wasn't thinking about peaceful muslims. >> are there extreme christians? >> yes. >> your loyalty test that you came up with --
>> it wasn't a loyalty test. >> what was it? >> the media came up with a loyalty test. >> what was it? >> you have peaceful muslims, you have extremists, i don't want an extremist in my cabinet. >> from any religion? >> from any religion. whatever their extremism is you want to keep them out. >> for a muslim to be in your cabinet, they would have to be an american citizen so they would have already had to sign up for the constitution and been a citizen. so for a muslim watching who is concerned about your view of muslims generally living in america, because the original comment was inflammatory, whether you intended for it to be or not, they were. what would you say now that you're nearing the stage of possibly being president, to make them feel less concerned? >> if you are truly a peaceful
muslim in this country, i have no problem with you. i have no problem of doing what you want to do in this country like any other citizen. i have no beef with those muslims that are peaceful. i have had conversations with peaceful muslims. i have had conversations with muslims who have acknowledged what i'm saying. but they won't necessarily go public with it. all i am saying is i want to raise a flag of caution because we do know that we have the two groups in this country. >> have you learned to be slightly more cautious billion how many flags of it caution you raise? >> not yet. not yet. >> let's take another break and talk about the extraordinary battle that you had with cancer which was also linked to your faith. >> yes. [ mom ] scooter? your father loves your new progresso rich & hearty steak burger soup.
and in the words of my first surgeon, that's as bad as it gets. >> back with herman cain who oh would like to be president one day, there's a reason that i think you are seen as a fighter. and that is an extraordinary battle that you waged with cancer. it was not just mild cancer. you were hit head on. >> stage 4. when i first got my first cat scan, i thought it was just in my colon and after the doctor did the colonoscopy, he said there is something called resection, they could take it out, the incidence is very high. how do we get this done, what's the game plan, et cetera. it wasn't until i went to the surgeon with all of the test results and had a discussion with her and she said near the end of the discussion, well, you have stage 4 cancer. i said, what is that? she said, that's as bad as it gets.
and then she started explaining the resectioning procedure. and then near the end she says, now, the tumors in your liver, i really don't know what to do about those until after i open you up. i said, what tumors in my liver? >> you had no idea you had them? >> i had no idea i had tumors in my liver because when i went to get the cat scan and i got the results, they won't tell you the results. they want to send it through your doctor. >> and you're thinking, this is it? >> i'm thinking, lord, this is it thank you for this wonderful life. i just pray that i don't suffer. that's what went through my mind. when she told me that i had a 30% chance of survival, i started thinking, well, maybe this is it. but because of my faith, i wasn't afraid. >> when did you realize i were going to make it? >> i realize i was going to make it -- first of all, hi to go through chemotherapy, double
surgery, recuperate from the double surgery where they took out 30% of my colon. 70% of my liver, recuperate, go through more intensive chemotherapy, and about a year after going through all of that and not having to be on chemotherapy, my test results were consistently good. the second year, consistently good. about the second year is when i started to feel like i probably had won this battle against cancer and just three months ago, i got a full, clean bill of health. total cancer-free for five years. my doctor said i am a miracle because i only had a 30% chance of survival and i've been totally cancer-free for five years. i asked the doctor, what's the likelihood that i could get cancer again? he said the chance is like 0.0001.
he said after five years, it's not likely that you would get it back. i am a blessed guy. >> how much of it comes down to your lucky gold tie? >> because i believe in the gold standard that we never should have gotten off of. and, secondly, it looks pretty good next to this beautiful skin. i'm not bragging, piers. but it sort of compliments the complexion very well. let's take a quick break. i want to talk briefly about what you learned from your parents and the values they instilled in you. why you think a guy that basically sold pizzas is fit the run the country. >> i can do that. can make it burn even more. puffs plus lotion is more soothing than common tissue, and it delivers our most soothing lotion for every nose issue. new fiber one 80 calories... ...with its sweet honey taste,
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were the slaves that were my foreparents, my forefathers. so i identify as a black american more so than as an african-american. yes, meaning the slaves came from africa. but my heritage is mostly here in the united states with the country went through slavery, the civil rights movement. so i prefer the term black american than african-american. that's going back too far. >> the martin luther king, i have a dream speech, incredibly inspiring. just goose bumps when you watch it. >> yes. >> you were around when the whole civil rights movement was going on but you didn't get actively involved in it. why? >> because of my age. the height of the civil rights movement was the late '50s and early '60s. i didn't graduate from high school until 1963. high school students weren't out doing sit-ins and bus boycotts. one, you needed to finish your high school education and we had part-time jobs. so i was very young. >> you tell a story about going to your local barbers. >> yes.
>> and all of the white guys kept coming in and having their hair cut and you were just left there and eventually one of the black americans said to you -- sorry, this is not where you get your hair cut. you're a black man. it seems almost impossible, due to my generation, that this was going on. >> see, you have to look that in the south, the tradition -- i went to black barber shops. in the south, the tradition was, you didn't make an appointment. which ever barber had the empty chair, he said "next" and you just went in the order that you came into the barber shop. so i go to fredericksburg, virginia, and i'm expecting the same tradition. but i sat down, i kept watching white customers being called up and i'm sitting here. it wasn't until i went up to one of the black barbers and said, am i next? you skipped over. and that's when he said, well,
we can't cut black hair in here. i said what? no. we -- you got all black barbers, what do you mean you can't cut black hair in here? we would lose our job it is we do this was 70 miles south of washington, d.c. i thought i was closer to dish thought i was out of this kind of stuff, he said but you can find a black barber shop over past sears on the other side of the railroad tracks. >> what did you do? >> i drove over to sears, bought me some clippers and a set of clippers and went home and cut the my own hair and i have been cutting my own hair ever since. >> have you really? >> yes, i have. i have only had one professional haircut since 1967. how i did do? >> doesn't too bad, actually? >> i just did this morning. >> you know what you may have a future. >> i'm serious. >> doesn't work out in politics. >> will you continue to cut your hair if you become president? maybe. >> an interesting question.
will you continue to cut your own hair? >> i might not just because of the time required and, you know, as president, you gonna be time poor and issues rich. >> one last break, come back and ask you what i didn't ask but your parent, the values they put you in that would you take to the white house if you became president.
god-fearing, must have been incredibly proud of you. what are the values that they instilled you in that would you take to the white house? >> first, my faith, belief in god, they taught us that through their example, when we were young, secondly, believe in yourself. my father worked three jobs, my mother was a domestic worker, they were hard working people, i saw you want something, you got to work hard, believe in yourself. my dad was a barber, a janitor and chauffeur, able to live off one job, it was the chauffeur's job but he had such great pride as a chauffeur and i used to tell people -- >> he was smart, too. >> yes.
>> he was the chief executive at coca cola's chauffeur and eventually said to him, don't pay me in the normal way, give me stock in coca cola. that changed the family fortune. >> my dad may not have had had a lot of formal education but add ph.d. in common sense and when he told his boss, i do appreciate this but you could give me some stock it hadn't occurred to woodruff. he said, luther, that's good idea. he always had a cigar in his mouth. luther, that's good idea. that's when he started giving my dad stock. he still gave him other things as well. my dad worked for woodruff about 25 years, in the whole 25 years that he received stock as a gift, he never cashed or sold one share. because he was thrifty, he was saving for the retirement. >> that must have become a huge nest egg. >> not huge, but when you consider -- when you consider what he started with, it was huge. >> enough to take you to out of the projects.
>> oh, yes. >> into a nice house? >> more importantly, it provided enough such that after my dad pass at the age of 56, we could take care of my mother comfortably because she had alzheimer's, so my dad was always planning for his retirement and my mom's retirement. >> what would they have made of you right now, where you found yourself? >> my mother's probably in heaven going, my, my, my, my. my dad is probably in heaven going, that's my boy! he is dancing in heaven. mom just shaking her head he just never cease to surprise us. >> if president obama is watching this i got a sneaking feeling he might be, say you win the nomination and come january, it's you and him, black american v black american. >> right. >> pretty amazing moment for america, for the world. are you the guy, you think that could beat him?
>> i believe that i could beat him because i think that, number one, my leadership ability without come through even if in a debate in terms of how it would approach problems. secondly, my experience with business, my understanding of economics, my understanding how we create jobs that would be just so obvious if we were in a side by side debate. but it's not about color in america and i think him getting elected, me getting the nomination, will underscore that fact. people are trying to make it about color. the voters and the citizens, they know it's not color. >> you think it is about color but i do think it is about this. i think, in the end, it's all about pizzas. do you actually like pizza? >> yes, i love pizza. >> do you eat it? >> i do eat it. i eat it all the time. >> what is your favorite pizza? >> my favorite pizza is to obviously a nice tangy tomato sauce and i like a lot of