tv Piers Morgan Tonight CNN October 25, 2011 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT
>> we're against greed and we're against the fact that the 1% could get nine slices of the pie and the other 99% are supposed to fight over the last slice. that is un-american, that is not democracy. >> the self-proclaimed champion of the 99%. he's made a career and a fortune fighting for the little guy. now michael moore is here with me to take your questions about the economy -- >> i've always considered myself a member of the middle class. now i consider myself a member of the lower class. >> the election. >> we still have the republican party that's taking care of the rich. we have the democratic party that's taking care of the poor. people in the middle are being totally forgotten here. >> and yes, those protesters. >> a happy day for me is when i'll be unemployed, when i don't have to make another one of these god damn movies or write another one of these books, when the real people of this country are in charge. that's my nirvana. >> a town hall event. who is to blame and who is going to fix what's broken in america? this is a special edition of "piers morgan tonight."
[ applause ] >> good evening. you're looking at live pictures of wall street. and here in new york i'm joined by oscar winning filmmaker michael moore, pinup for the dispossessioned of the wall street protests. last time he came on this show a few weeks ago, he promised to come back and tackle in front of a live audience the issues tormenting america and the grievances of the ordinary people left high and dry by the economic crisis. those people the self-styled 99% are here tonight, om of them. they want to know why the rich got richer, the poor got poorer and they were left bearing the burden. we'll find out what the wall street protesters are, what they want and how they get it. how do we fix america? we'll be taking questions here in the studio, by phone and on twitter providing a realtime response to bigtime problems. get hold of me @piersmorgan or
use the #piersmorganlive. michael, welcome. >> thank you. [ applause ] can i just say, first of all, thank you for letting the people in to time warner here and to have this chance. >> well, i said we'd do it. i think it will be a very interesting exercise. >> i know it's not quite "america's got talent." >> we might have a few red buzzers tonight. >> more like america's got no middle class. >> let's quut to the quick. who are the 99%, who are the 1%? >> the 1%, they have about 40% of all the wealth in this country. the 99% are essentially, most of them, people who you used to call the middle class. and, of course, a good chunk of
them, sadly in this country are part of the poor. we have 46 million people living in poverty right now in this country. but this large middle class that we used to, people that worked for a living, that put in a hard day's work, got their pay for that, and with that pay were able to purchase a home, were able to send their kids to college, had health care, had vacation time, had all these things that just a decent middle class life and those in charge, the 1% decided that they needed to take some of that away because the 1% didn't have enough money. they needed more money. and this level of greed that's taken place here, it's really started back almost 30 years ago. i say this started really when reagan fired the air traffic controllers. that was the first volley that was thrown at the middle class. and they have succeeded over these 30 years of making life harder and harder and harder for
people. >> let me ask you this. is this really a protest against capitalism, as some have been saying, or is it a protest against capitalist greed and a b -- abuse of capitalism. >> when you say 99%, there's a whole bunch of reasons why people feel a part of this movement right now. for some people this is a protest against capitalism. some other people they think that capitalism has become a system of greed and needs to be reformed or we need to put the controls back on it that used to be there. then people have specific concerns. students who are saddled with incredible debt who won't pay that off until their 40s. millions are in foreclosure, millions more their homes are under water. they're trapped as prisoners in their home. they won't be able to sell it. they are stuck there essentially or they could file for bankruptcy and have their credit ruined and then have more of their life ruined. we have 50 million people with
no health insurance in this country. the number one cause of bankruptcy in this country are medical bills. you have that whole group of people. you have people who are concerned about our educational system that we've placed this on the lowest rung of our ladder. and as a result right now in this country, we have 40 million functional illiteral adults in this country. >> we've established that. and it's a mess. and we're going to try to solve some of the issues as the evening goes on. here is an immediate fweet for you, just to show we're impartial on this sew. this is from @gatewaypatriot. you've benefited greatly from capitalism yet you are one of its biggest critics. how do you scare that? >> isn't that amazing? really, i'm here talking against my own interests. >> what's the matter with you? >> what's wrong with me. >> you crazy man. you're in the 1%? >> i'm not in the 1%.
>> probably 0.2%? >> no. >> you're one of the most successful filmmakers in the country. >> no, i'm not. for a documentary filmmaker, i'm doing well. >> you're splitting hairs. >> there's a big difference between a documentary and "avatar." >> there is. >> i'm not that. let me just say -- >> there are people watching that say michael moore, rich guy. >> well, i'm able to do what i want to do and i have the money to make my films in exactly the way i want to make them. i don't answer to anyone. i can't be bought because these people have spent $10 at the movie theater to buy tickets to my movies or $3 at the old blockbuster when there was a blockbuster. and as a result of that i get to keep making these movies. here's the thing. because i've also -- i've had a peek behind the curtain because these books i write, these movies i make are made for
essentially large corporations. the only reason they allow this to happen is because i make them a lot of money. >> and yourself. >> no. they don't want me to have any money. i'm a dangerous person with a lot of money. the fact that i make money, what am i going to do with my money? spend it at brooks brothers? i put a lot of my effort in trying to change the system and to make these films. and that, i'm sure those in charge don't like that part, but they do like the part where i make them money and they're convinced -- this is what i really think it is. they're convinced that the people out there, the people watching this on tv, even if they see my movie, they're not going to rebel, they're not going to stand up. they're so convinced that they have dumd down and numbed the american public to a point of utter despair that they can't get off the couch. and they've made a huge mistake letting me on tv and putting my films in theaters and publishing
my books. and i'm so grateful for that. >> i maight have made a mistake putting you on tv. >> live! never put me on live. >> i need you to admit the obvious, i need you to sit here and say, i'm in the 1%. >> well, i can't. because i'm not. >> you are, though. >> no, i'm not. i'm not. >> you're not in if 1%? >> of course i'm not. how can i be in the 1%. that's not true. i do really well. i do well. but what's the point, though? >> because i find it more interesting if you're in the 1% because i think you probably qualify, that you are railing against a lot of capitalist ideals. >> then if you believe that about me, then that's really something, isn't it? that even though i do well, that i don't associate myself with those who do well. i am devoting my life to those
who have less and who have been krapd upon by the system. and that's how i spend my time, my energy, my money on trying to up-end this system that i think is a system of violence, a system that's unfair to the average working person of this country, and it was a mistake to ever give me a dime from the day time warner actually gave me money to buy "roger and me." no, this place essentially is where i began. >> let's go to somebody who is in the 99 -- >> i hope they rue the day they ever allowed me up on a movie screen. >> i'm sure we will. i want to go to our first question. this is from monica. where is monica? >> hi. hi, piers, hi, michael. >> before you said that, i wanted to confirm a new cnn poll among moderates, 32%, viewed the occupy wall street protests favorably. 26% were against it. a third or fewer weren't sure either way.
where do you sit? you've been down there. one of the questions i heard about occupy wall street, what are they really protesting about? what is this movement at its core really trying to achieve? what do you think the answer is? >> well, for me, i'm a person with a master's degree who has been unemployed since i graduated. haven't had health care for years. so i understand where the anger and the frustration of many americans is coming from. i get that angle. and that resonates with me. but i'm also concerned about corporate influence on government in particular. but that's a message that a lot of protesters are talking about. in particular for me, it's corporate influence on the criminal justice system. but when i go down to occupy wall street, the feeling that's there is not one of anger, it's not one of frustration, it's a feeling of hope. it's a feeling of optimism. it's a feeling that this can make a difference this time. this is really working. and it's like what michael said, we can actually do it. maybe this is the time that we can actually change things.
we can actually make things change. >> do you feel personally angry to the people that work in wall street? are you instinctively against, do you feel the mood of the people there is against very wealthy bankers and so on? do they blame them for what happened? or is it more general than that? are there lots of people to blame? >> i think there is some of that. i think there is some feeling of personal enmity. what can we do? how can we all be inspired together to make social change? and that's the general takeaway. >> michael, do you share that? is it more optimistic? i'm surprised by that. i sort of got the sense that it was angrier than that. >> well, underneath all of that, yes, there's a general anger about what's happened to our country. we love our country. and so we're very upset that the promise of america seems now to be something way back in the
distant past. >> give me a pie chart here, if you can, of blame between the members of the public for overspending, for getting too much credit, for buying stuff they couldn't afford, the government for the policies that may have precipitated economic crisis and the wall street element of this. if you were slicing a pie up, how would you fairly do it? >> okay. there's nothing scientific behind this. >> no. >> but i would -- >> we won't hold you to the exact figures. but just a sense of where you think the majority of blame lies here? >> okay. i think i would say that 100% of it is the fault of corporate america. and i'll tell you why. i'll tell you why i don't assign any blame to washington, d.c. because the politicians in washington, d.c., are paid for by corporate america. so they're just the employees. they're there to act as the
servants of wall street. so why would you blame the servants for the situation? you blame the core, you blame where -- what is essentially the base of where this problem comes from. as far as blaming the american people, i mean, haven't they been through enough really? >> well, they have. but the fact that they're not to blame at all? no one in america overspent? nobody went against probably all the guidelines from their parents, don't spend what you can't afford? there has to be some sense of self-blame? personal responsibility. >> personal responsibility is a good thing. and our main personal responsibility in this is to be responsible citizens. and the important thing you have to be as a citizen is you have to be active and you have to be involved. that's what this occupy thing is happening all across the country is because people are standing up and being responsible citizens. to blame people whose wages have not gone up more than 1% and
when you account for inflation and everything, in 30 years there's been stagnant wages. do you remember how it was with your parents, how they had paid vacations? do you remember paid vacations? all they get now is you got to cut back on your health care and benefits, we'll take away these benefits, we're taking away these sick days, we're taking away this, we're taking away that. and now by the way, we're going to move your job to mexico. that's what everyone has had to tolerate and put up with. >> hold that thought. we'll take a quick break and come back and talk about president obama. has he got the right ideas perhaps belated to get america out of this mess? because that will be key to how the next few months and years progress. i'm not a number.
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forcing these senators to vote on commonsense paid for jobs proposals. >> president obama yesterday saying what he says is job one, putting people to work. he wants congress to act, the same congress that failed to pass his jobs bill earlier this month. michael, very quickly, has obama got it right yet, his thinking? is he going about this right way? are we going to see the jobs crisis being eased at all, do you think? what is the simple answer of getting america back to bork? >> one of the answer, yes, this jobs bill is a good bill. this is something that should be passed and we need more of that. that's one of the things that needs to be done. but we also need to put regulations back on wall street. his justice department needs to go after the people that created the crash of 2008. those were crimes that were committed. and i don't know why -- there's
over a thousand of these occupy protesters who have been arrested here just in new york city. there's more all across the country. and not one single wall streeter, not one banker in jail? i mean, that just seems so off. so there's a number of things that president obama needs to do. but this is a good step. and i think lately he has started to come alive and say the things or do the things that a lot of people wish that he'd done earlier. >> let me go to mark weber. you moved to the city to find a job, to new york. what is your view of the jobs crisis and where the president now is on this? >> well, i think that it's very hard to find a job, no matter what you've got, whether you have a high school education or a master's. i have a master's in journalism. when i go on craigslist every day, i notice that everybody wants me to do work for free. i think that's a problem because there's not many jobs offering good pay. >> why do you think there are no jobs? what's your gut feeling? >> i think computers have
changed the world. because so many machines are doing human-being jobs, that there's hardly any jobs left for people. if you add in china and so many people there doing jobs there, there's not much left for americans to do. >> this is the point, michael, aside from all the other factors that have caused this crisis, there is also one just called progression, technology, the world changing. what do you do about the fact that computers can now do, in some cases, the jobs of a thousand people. >> first of all, that's a good thing. technology is a good thing and advances society. one of the problems we have right now is that our corporations, our american corporations, many of them who pay no tax whatsoever are sitting right now on $2 trillion worth of cash in their bank accounts. in the old days what they'd do with that money is they'd reinvest it in their company. they'd put it into research and development. >> why is that not happening? >> why are they holding on to the money? >> yes. >> my personal theory?
i think they know the other shoe hasn't dropped. i think the crash of '08 was the first shoe. they know the other shoe is going to drop because they're still downtown playing around with derivatives, credit default swaps, they want to have that cash on hand for themselves when the calamity takes place. that's my theory. i have nothing -- no evidence to back that up. >> let me go to lindsey here. you worked in corporate america. you went back to school to earn your master's in teaching. what's been your concern? >> my biggest concern, obviously, i'm not going to be able to find a job. i know all the budget cuts in pennsylvania across the board in education, i mean, i can speak nationwide. but i'm really nervous. how am i going to pay for health care and basic living expenses. >> how much debt have you wracked up? >> probably 50s hads this, 60,000. >> this to me is one of the real scandals. this can happen. a smart person who put the hard
yards in to be in an increasingly competitive world, the chinese are getting educated very fast. how can america compete if the brains of the country are being treated in this way? >> and where they have to go out in the real world at 22 years old and 24 with a crushing debt. it is like a boot on your neck. and the chinese who are graduating from piqeking university this year, zero debt. how much debt do students have when they're 23. it's more now. >> it's got more of the american way. >> sadly. >> but the fact that the chinese don't is fascinating. another reason why they're going to move faster. >> you grew up in a time where that wasn't the case. and if you live -- new yorkers who are here, if you went to the suny system if you were my age, what did you pay per semester, those of you my age who went to
a suny school. >> a thousand dollars. >> a thousand dollars a semester. that was a lot, actually. anybody else go to a city college here? it was about $80 to $100 in fees per semester. why have we made this such a low priority? why have we wanted to punish people who want to learn, go out and make our society a better place? you know, in many countrieses if you want to be a doctor, you know what the cost is to go to medical school? nothing. canada? why not? because society needs doctors. we need brains. we need people to do these things. and it's very hard to function when your first thought is how am i going to make money, how am i going to pay off this debt? i'm already on credit cards. >> hold that thought. we'll come back and talk more about jobs and also steve jobs because in many ways he represented the best and worst of corporate america. look, every day we're using more and more energy.
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there is a sense that it's getting angrier, there is violence on both sides. is this where you want to see these protests go? what is your view when you see what's happening in places like oakland? it's potentially dangerous. >> there's no violence coming from the occupy protesters. this is a nonviolent, peaceful group. what we've seen across the country are a series of police riots, where the police are rioting, where the police have gotten violent. these are americans who are in the american tradition standing up for what they believe in. and occupying the front lawns of the city hall in the case of oakland. they're not destroying any property. and this is going on all over the country. this is something that can't be stopped. they can bring in all the police they want. i was down in times square last weekend for the big protest down there. and the police looked really frightened because there were simply not enough police.
if the people just decided to go past the barricades and go into the streets and take over the streets because there are tens of millions of people that feel this way. tens of millions. and this is a movement that cannot be stopped with billy clubs or this kind of behavior. >> let me ask you about jobs in both senses of this. one, the jobs crisis. secondly steve jobs. because apple has become a kind of symbol of glorious capitalism and at the same time apple now has more employees in china than it has in america, which is one of the fundamental problem of america. a tweet here from gabby saying, wake up, america, stop shipping jobs overseas and stop buying imported goods of lower standard. there's a good merit to this argument that america needs to be more selfish, isn't there? that companies like apple should lead by example. they're making billions. bring it back to america. what do you think? >> if i were president -- and i'm not announcing, by the way, on your show.
>> good. spice things up, michael. you'd get a few votes in this room. [ applause ] >> no, no, no. i would make it -- i would say -- this is what i would say. i would say our jobs are a national resource. and you, corporate america, cannot just take a national treasure like the jobs of the people that make up this country and take them someplace else. i would have laws that make it very hard to do that. even illegal to do that. where you can -- i'll give you my case of flint, michigan. people of flint, michigan, and general motors, they built that into the richest corporation in the world. then in the 1980s, gm decided hey, you know what? instead of making $4 billion in profits, we could make $5 billion if we started move this overseas.
they decided that it was worth wrecking the lives of tens of thousands of middle class people so they could make an extra billion. what was wrong with $4 billion? for an extra billion, we have to see the destruction of flint and detroit and all these cities across the country? if i had anything to say about it, i would say, as long as you're doing well here -- i understand if you're losing money and you can't do it, we'll see what we can do. but if you're making a huge profit, then you just cannot pick up and leave. i'm sorry. these are the people's jobs. this is what makes this country run. >> let me go to somebody who hasn't got a job, julie. you've been unemployed since 2009. you've sold everything that you own. you're living off your husband's salary now. what's your question for michael moore? >> what are the concerns with the middle middle class? we're not on food stamps and we've been able to hold on to our home for now, but we're having trouble making ends meet. would i be better off poor, then
at least i'd be eligible for public aid? >> i mean, that is an awful question to even pose, isn't it, that an american in 2011 would even think that way? does she have a point? would she be better off being poorer? >> well, you haven't been poor. i can tell by the question. you haven't been on welfare or food stamps. >> not yet. >> just the fact that you would pose that, i just want too say the people these days who are on welfare and food stamps, they get nothing. i mean, it is disgusting, they're not even able to make it. and they get so -- no, you wouldn't want that to happen to yourself. you know, what you need to do is not be thinking downward, but rather what can we do to preserve what we've got to make it better and get back -- he asked the question about steve jobs. the real answer to this is if there's a steve jobs out there in this audience or watching at home, if you're an entrepreneur or you have a great invention, try to go down to your local
bank and get a loan. the small business person trying to get a loan, they're not loaning the money. they're sitting on that $2 trillion. they will not -- if steve jobs was steve jobs, if ieye he and wozniak thought this up and tried to get the funding, they would get no help and they would have republican candidates saying, well, that's your own problem. that's your own damn problem. >> how important do you think taxation is as an issue in this. a sense that warren buffett came out and said, i want to be taxed more. the president said we need to raise taxes particularly on the wealthy, cut the bush tax breaks for the rich. and all that gets sexy headlines and it's an easy thing to say, you're warren buffett and you're earning billions. but does it really make that much difference to the success of the economy in america, do you think? how important is the tax issue? >> it's very important. it's not the whole thing, but it's a very important piece of it.
>> why? >> because the wealthy have not been paying their fair share. again, when i was younger, i remember there were rich people then. and they seemed to live a good life when they were paying 50% and 60% of their income in taxes. yet they still had their yachts and their mansions and summer homes. nobody really minded because they also built factories and created jobs and let all of us who grew up in that kind of existence have a roof over our head. that's not the way it is any more. they weren't satisfied with what they have. they wanted more and more and more. and i just think that what you hear from this woman here, this is -- you're right, it's sad in america that somebody would say that. i was in an audience the other night. a 20-year-old young woman said that she's not going to college. i said why aren't you in college? she said, i can't afford it. you never want to hear in america i can't afford to go to college. we are totally destroying our future with what we're doing
with young people and with people once they get out of college not having a way to make it here. >> one of the other things -- >> what was wrong with the way we used to have it? really, what was wrong? >> let's not be too rose tipped, because there are people that have a myriad of problems, too. >> there was a chance -- yes, there were problems and there was a dark side to the american dream if you grew up in the '50s and '60s. >> the great depression, which was far worse. >> but my parents went through this depression and my dad who built spark plug ps on an assembly line in flint, michigan, knew if he put an honest day's work in for eight hours, he could buy his own home, he could send his kid to college. he could have a decent life. and he didn't have to worry about if he got sick, that somehow he'd lose his home because he was paying for his medical bills. >> coming after the break, about
homes, people losing home, people having homes that are a hell of a lot less than what they paid for it. what do we do about it? the other office devices? they don't get me. they're all like, "hey, brother, doesn't it bother you that no one notices you?" and i'm like, "doesn't it bother you you're not reliable?" and they say, "shut up!" and i'm like, "you shut up." in business, it's all about reliability. 'cause these guys aren't just hitting "print." they're hitting "dream." so that's what i do. i print dreams, baby. [whispering] big dreams.
moore. and the live audience. michael, from @gigawatts2k. >> we use wall street as the dart board. sorry, nope. that reflects bankers who have been demonized. they say don't tar us all with the brush. capitalism served, as did wall street america for a very long time. >> that whole time where this believed in the free marketplace and competition where we as the consupers have many choices before they decided to merge and buy out and destroy companies and you end up in a town that has one airline or a town if you're lucky that's got one newspaper. you know, you have only -- i mean, these capitalists of the 21st century, they would like a soviet style capitalism where they're the only ones who get to call the shots. >> what is a good capitalist? >> the thing, again, when we were growing up, there was a system that said -- i mean the way i described it, i might have
said this last time i was on the show, that the contract with the worker, between the workers and the owners was that if you the worker worked hard and the company prospered, you prospered. but they decided to change it to you work hard, the company prospers and you lose your job. and this has been a shock, i think, to the american people that after years and years of what you put into the company, then you're just treated like so much garbage that's put out on the curb. it's un-american. and these people, these poor bankers, they hate this country, and they hate the people in it and they hate the workers in it and they're trying to get away with as much money as they can before that next crash. and they have to be stopped. >> one of the victims of the huge body of people whose homes are worth less than they paid for them, let's go to lisa smith. you're in this position. tell me what's happened to you. >> my husband and i both work full-time, we're both nurses, actually, and we have small children. and my home is now worth about
60% of what i owe on it. it needs a lot of maintenance. it's falling apart. we're behind in the mortgage, the utilities, taxes and we're working ourselves to death. my husband just got another job that he's starting next week. i just don't know how to catch up. and i don't know how to keep this home and if it's even worth it. >> who do you blame? >> i blame myself part of it, absolutely. but i do blame the mortgage companies that i dealt with because i feel like i was manipulated. i don't feel like i was represented appropriately in my paperwork. i didn't have a lawyer with me at my closing. and i was rushed through it and i didn't read my paperwork appropriately. now i'm left with a loan that is worth more money than i can afford to pay on a house that's really worth nothing. >> do you have any confidence that people are going to come up with answers to get you out of this problem? >> no. i don't think so. and i keep looking into all
these government programs that keep coming out and coming out and they don't apply to me. i'm current on some things, on not other things. i make too much money. i don't have a fannie mae or a freddie mac loan. i don't even know what kind of loan i have, but it doesn't qualify. so i don't see where there's help for me. >> let me bring in another guest here. anderson, you're 56, you lost your home in a foreclosure, you share an apartment with three friends. what do you think has happened to the american dream? >> yeah, i don't know. i mean, it used to be for many years, as you said, michael, you could get ahead, you could move up. i was sort of upwardly mobile in the corporate world. now i'm working retail. it's a nice job. but i'm making what i made in the '80s. the opportunities aren't there. and democracy and capitalism used to sort of work together. i don't know if they're going to work together going forward the way they used to in the past. >> what do you think when michael clearly lays massive
blame on the banker. in fact, 100% blame on wall street. what do you think? >> my loan was underperforming. i guess the board looked at it and said some late payments, for 20 years they were paid, but late payments because you get laid off, downsizing, you can't make the payments. they sell it off. and it clears their books nicely, but you lose a home. >> michael, two different stories there. it all comes down, i guess, to what kind of america do we need to have now? we're in this mess. how does america get out of this mess in terms of a vision for the country? >> ple >> let me say one, it was lisa, right? you are -- if you wanted to, say, move to another part of the country, take a different job, maybe improve your life or maybe go back to school, you can't do that, can you? you have to stay -- both of you have to stay -- >> this is my father.
>> we'll have to go to a break, michael. we'll talk about health care, a little bit more about that issue. because people are suffering. they are suffering. i'm not entirely sure that those positions of power and responsibility realize what people like -- >> oh, they realize it. they realize it. and they see what's coming, too. fore! no matter what small business you are in, managing expenses seems to... get in the way. not anymore. ink, the small business card from chase introduces jot an on-the-go expense app made exclusively for ink customers. custom categorize your expenses anywhere. save time and get back to what you love. the latest innovation. only for ink customers. learn more at chase.com/ink but wanted to do something more for my nutrition.
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back with my guest michael moore and our special live audience talking about how to get america back on its feet. take a call from a man perkins florida and had he has question about occupy wall street. mr. perkins? >> caller: hello. >> hello. >> piers: fire away. >> caller: i just want to say hi, michael, big fan. piers, sorry, not so much, but -- [ laughter ] >> watch his other show it is really good. >> piers: all we have got time for. no off you go >> caller: all my brothers and sisters on occupy wall street, the movement that started sweeping the country and now the world, my heart and soul are with you. i, too, have been a victim of had this banking system and this incredible financial crisis. i'm very angry about a few
things but i just want them to be focused, to define their message better. whoever came one credit default swaps ought to be slapped down and hung in the public square. banks in general need to be hung in the public square for some of their actions. >> figuratively. >> piers: and craig -- >> caller: congress not working with obama, they are putting us on the back burner and that should not happen in the united states. >> piers: craig, let jump, what if do you think of the protests themselves? do you believe they are well organized enough? is the message clear? >> caller: i think that their message should be more defined. i know i share their anger. i'm very upset myself. and really, we got to change things very much along the lines of what the tea party did for the republicans, i'm not saying they have to be democrats, but i think the lines are pretty well drawn here. >> piers: okay. michael. >> this is much larger and going to be much larger than the tea
party. no one is going to remember the tea party. that's number one. number two, about issues being well defined, remember, this movement is just in its infancy, only five weeks to old and already has the support of tens of millions of people across the country. the message will get refined. you can go to the website of occupy wall street nyc.org and they have the list of to demands that people are voting on and discussing. it is quite clear, it is a great list, and this movement will grow. don't -- let's not be too critical of it right now because it's going through the growing pains of any movement, but i will tell you, in my lifetime, piers, i have never seen a movement grow this fast and get the support of the american people this quickly, national journal poll, i think it was on sunday said that 57 -- 59% of the american public agrees with the goals of this movement. >> piers: how big a part of this is disquiet and concern over health care in this country, do
you think? >> i think a lot of it is. you have 50 million people that don't have it and the people who do have health insurance try to get reimbursed, try to get a doctor to accept your health insurance. it's -- even if you are insured, private health insurance companies, again, if i had anything to say about it they would be illegal. should not have a profit-making anything involved when it comes to when people get sick. [ applause ] so it is the number one cause, as i said, of bankruptcy in this country, it really -- this man, during the break in the audience, spoke out eloquently here about his 76-year-old mother who has worked hard all her life to save up all this money and in one year, she has essentially been wiped out with all that she has saved. she worked, you bay is personal responsibility. his mother working until she is 76 years old didn't quit working until 76 so that she could be mach her last ten years of had her life? this is how the american people are. that is the vast majority, full of personal responsibility.
i tell how doesn't have personal responsibility, companies like general electric and others who pay absolute hadly no income tax. bank of america pay no income tax and get money back from the government were is their person responsibility? where is the is the responsibility of people who built the company into great companies? we are not going to take this anymore, not listen to this kind of argument because these are the victims of this and they are -- and fortunately -- can i say one thing, good news you can the 1%, they only have 1% of the votes. and they can try -- [ applause ] they can buy -- try to buy politicians. they can't bite people. >> piers: a quick break, final break and come back and take another call. >> all right.
>> piers: live picturesfrom oakland where occupy oakland is in full force tonight, protesters making their feelings clear. i'm with one of the pro-pag nists, the chief pro-pag nists. >> i'm not the chief. one of millions. >> piers: many see you that way. >> stop. >> piers: scott mooney from south carolina has a question for you. mr. mooney? >> caller: yes. >> piers: you have got michael moore in your sights. fire away. >> caller: mr. moore, i would like to know when is the last time that you have been to south carolina? you speak of all americans and i
don't know if you leave hollywood enough to come to south carolina to know how any of us in the south feel or if you just stay out in california and enjoy your money and making documentaries about the -- probably the best president we have had, mr. bush. you know, you know how all americans feel or just how you feel in california? >> piers: mr. mooney, okay. very quickly. >> i live in michigan, thank you, though. scaife a nice state, i guess. i've never been to south carolina it is one of the four states i have never been stop. that an ini will have the nation >> piers: snubbing south carolina. >> i have never been to south carolina, wyoming or the dakotas. >> piers: how much do you blame george bush? >> a lot. >> piers: why? quickly. >> he flushed this country down the toilet. he allowed it-to-happen -- [ applause ] he sent news two illegal wars that are costing us $2 billion a week what if we had that money here i