tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN October 26, 2011 11:00pm-12:00am PDT
i don't know what the appellate court situation is when itomes to prime time shows. take it to judge judy. i don't know. what i do know is this, this is the most significant blowup to ever happen over a rumba, a confrontation that was well overdue on the rediculist. bernie madoff's wife. ruth madoff says she and her husband were so distraught by the ponzi scheme they attempted suicide. silvio berlusconi and his famous bunga parties. truly lurid information. and the bottom line on the super committee hearing. if they don't cut we could get hit by an interest hike. let's all go "outfront."
i'm erin burnett. "outfront," count down to another downgrade of america? the super committee held a rare public hearing today. they're the group of 12 charged with cutting the deficit by at least $1.2 trillion. if they don't do it, we can end up on a rate to higher interest rates and a lower standard of living. here are the dates we need to watch. november 1st, cbo says the super committee must submit their plan for review. that is five days from now. november 23rd, that is the deadline for the final submission. and then december 23rd, the final deadline when congress must up or down vote that plan. the committee must come to an agreement, and congress has to pass it or automatic across the board cuts will be made, half of them coming from our defense budget. the problem is those cuts don't come until 2013. they are too small to prevent more downgrades. yes, thanks to congress, america's economic standing in the world is on the verge of another downgrade.
economist ethan harris at bank of america merrill lynch says he expects at least one more credit downgrade this fall "when the super committee crashes." note he writes when, not if. "outfront" spoke with a lot of major investors today, and they were all in the when, not if, camp. today, republicans on the committee shot down a democratic plan to cut up to $3 trillion. but note the word cut is a little misleading as you can cut the deficit by either cutting spending or raising taxes. so who are the people charged with coming up with a plan? the team of 12 politicians, six from each side of the aisle. one of them is "outfront" tonight. representative camp, appreciate you joining us. i'm going to talk about your tax plan out today in just a moment. first, given this whole debate this afternoon, the dems apparently offering a proposal, obviously details have leaked of cuts up to $3 trillion, half spending cuts, half tax increases. republicans shot it down.
what happened? >> erin, i'm not going to go into all the details that happened within the super committee but let me say we've had lots of back and forth, lots of discussions. we all think -- i think take our responsibility very seriously to try to come to a solution of at least $1.2 trillion, which is our statutory obligation as you laid out, before the deadline. and we're continuing to work as hard as we can. but i think these discussions are best left to the meetings and not to try to characterize them in the press. >> i would agree, every time there's characterizations, the other side gets angry. i appreciate that on this show. i think others in the media do as well. let me ask you this. is it fair to say that you are acknowledged that to get a deal done, there will have to be some sort of revenue increase? is that fair to say? >> i think it's important that we not try to box people in or out, that we continue to have discussions.
obviously that's something that many people on the committee think is important to do. obviously, i'm going to look at everything the committee does through the prism of what is the best thing to grow our private sector economy, to create jobs in the u.s., and whatever policy it is, i think that's the analysis we need to take. and ultimately, i think you're right, we need to get a package or i think there will be an overarching issue of can america deal with the problems that are facing it? can we address our long-term debt and deficit problems? i hope we can do that. >> i heard someone recently say something that was pretty disturbing because it doesn't jive with what i hear from people in the markets, the people who control the interest rates we all pay on our mortgages, credit cards and our whole country pays. someone said, if the super committee doesn't do its job, they can kick the can down the road. bill gross from pimco, the biggest investor in u.s. treasury debt in the world, said the u.s. is kicking the can down the road, one of these days,
like an nfl field goal kicker, it will lose its job. do you-all on that committee feel that pressure that if you don't get this done, we could end up with interest rates jumping sharply at some point? >> i think we all feel how important this issue is. and frankly the country spent more than it's had for 50 years. this is just not a new thing. we're at a crisis point and i think the preview what is we're seeing in greece and europe and we don't want to go in that direction. if we don't manage this issue now, as we point out, in many ways it could be an issue that manages us. and the decisions then that would be made under a crisis situation would not be appropriate. and now we can address some of these issues in an orderly way, in a way that isn't going to cause tremendous dislocation or discomfort. and we need to do it now. so i think we all feel very strongly about that. >> you came out with a tax plan. i want to ask you about it. cut corporate tax rates 25% and eliminate loopholes. i believe that is something
president obama has also agreed with, as long as that were revenue neutral. are you on the same page with him on this? >> we are saying revenue neutral and he has said positive things about corporate tax reform. this is the first step in putting a concrete proposal out there. this changes -- our rates are the highest in the world. we're the only country basically left with this worldwide system of taxation. we need to do like other countries and go to a territorial system so our worldwide companies doing business around the globe that are american companies aren't double-taxed when they bring investment back to the u.s. we want investment to come back to the u.s. to create jobs here, not stranded overseas where it's invested there and jobs are created overseas. this is the first step to doing that and a big step to getting the entire aspect of corporate and ultimately comprehensive tax reform done in the congress. >> representative camp, thank you very much. >> thanks, erin. >> interesting idea, support on both sides of the aisle because it gets rid of what a lot of
people in america are frustrated about. if there's no loopholes, lobbying to take advantage of them wouldn't benefit you. getting rid of loopholes for a lower rate could make a lot of sense. gloria borger is a cnn analyst and john avalon, is here. do you think that those 12 members get it? >> i hope so. because we really can't kick the can down the road. we need them to succeed. the question is whether they've been set up to fail. because the leadership put forward partisan members. congressman camp, when you asked, would you be open to some revenue increases? whether that can be achieved through lowering rates and closing loopholes, he didn't say no. it's obvious what needs to be done. tax reform, entitlement reform. you can lower rates, close loopholes and erase revenue to pay down the debt, the we is political will to do that. >> what do you think? i have to say it was interesting the democrats came out with a plan, republicans shot it down. that's exactly the kind of politics we don't want. they become more entrenched. >> here we go again.
it's also interesting to me that congressional leaders on both sides of the aisle have started meeting privately with their proxies, if you will, on the super committee. because people who serve on the super committee know that they can't make a move without their leaders. so they're now starting to caucus, if you will, privately so they can figure out what is in the realm of the doable. to me, you've got people on that committee who are key. one person i point to is rob portman of ohio. somebody who's a conservative, who has national political ambition, mentioned as a possible vice presidential candidate with anybody who runs, somebody the democrats feel that they can talk to. so i think when senator mcconnell appointed him, it was a very important signal that they do want to get something serious done.
but again, the tax question is the big question out there. will they do anything on taxes? >> right. that is a big question. and of course, it's also the rhetoric that you use around it to have it be, if you're going to raise revenue, having it not be in class warfare terms would be positive. >> it would be but the question is what's the goal? deficit and debt reduction? or is tax cut theology going to take the first level? the question whether rob portman can lead reconciliation. maybe it's max baucus, who however voted against simpson. we know what needs to be done. the question is whether the center is going to be able to hold. one person needs to cross party lines to bring this to vote in congress. >> there is no center anymore. that's the problem. there is no center. >> not on this committee. >> on this show we're trying to define it. you get sniped from both sides but we try. we'll talk about the baby lisa case and what police think
they could find from the interviews going on today. plus surprising information in the latest polls. that's what john and gloria i going to talk about. real shock in terms of who's leading in crucial early states. and from the super committee's 12 members to the 12 caesars. silvio berlusconi is in the news again. we can't resist telling you all the lurid details. americans are always ready to work hard for a better future. since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪
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"the number" tonight," 37,782. that's how many dollars it costs for an out-of-state student to attend the university of michigan. that makes it the most expensive public school for out-of-staters. president obama is taking on college affordability, touting plans to help students pay for college. among the ideas, allow borrowers cap student loans and provide a discount on consolidation loans. student loans are in the discretionary part of the budget, and hence open to cuts right now. there are surprising headlines from big new presidential polls today. cnn's tom foreman has the numbers first. tom, who is out front? >> oh, it's time to go "poll vaulting."
the first big state. mitt romney 24%. herman cain 21%. ron paul 12%. the next stop to new hampshire. once again, mitt romney 40% here. different from iowa. iowa has a stronger conservative movement, more of a tea party movement, herman cain has more support here, 13%. ron paul again at 12%. come down to south carolina. this is one of these four states that president obama did not win in the last election. down here, mitt romney again 25%. herman cain 23%. ron paul at 12%. down here into florida, big whopping battleground state. mitt romney again at 30%. herman cain 18%. newt gingrich at 9%. and erin, i know you can tell me who's missing from all of this. >> could it be the governor? >> look at that, 11% in south carolina. >> amazing. >> that's the best he did in these four states. that is not a good thing for
them to hear at their camp tonight. >> no. really amazing as you said. tied with gingrich left, right and center. thank you very much, tom. gloria, what do you make on those polls? a few big headlines. not good for rick perry. >> no. and i think in the end, mitt romney will be very happy that rick perry got into this race. at least so far. because he's been the beneficiary of perry's decline. when you dig deeper, even in a conservative evangelical republican community in iowa, mitt romney is making inroads with evangelical voters. he's doing very, very well with seniors in the state of florida. he's even doing well with tea party voters in the state of florida. and that all comes out of the hide of rick perry. so what's not good for perry is good for romney.
>> john, i'm noticing here on some of the national polls, you've seen cain vault to the top. wind the margin of error. here, romney appears to be pretty comfortably on top of cain. >> romney is able to consolidate those voters who aren't part of the tea-vangelist crowd. >> a new moniker. >> the tea-vangelists. herman cain is solidly in second place. he's solidified the gains he's made. those have come out of rick perry's hide. the other thing is look at the winner's circle, perry's not in there, it's romney, cain, and ron paul. give the man credit where he's due, he's in that top three. >> how serious is ron paul as a contender? his base has always been loyal, evangelical paul-ites. >> he's got his loyal base, they will always be his loyal base. but he's not going to be in the top tier of candidates.
he's not some money, actually, but in the end, i don't think he's going to wind up in that top tier. and i think herman cain is actually hurting him to a great degree. michele bachmann, by the way, nowhere in these polls. in the state of iowa, supposed to be her big move, she's trying to get more people to work there for her. she's trying to really make her move there. but look, she's absolutely nowhere. single digits. so i think what you're seeing now is the top tier solidify and perry hoping that he can get back into it. >> john, what about the fact that so many people are still undecided or saying, this is my choice now but i'm completely open to changing? >> that's the most significant thing in these cnn polls of battleground states is that around 50% of voters say they haven't made up their mind, they're open to making a switch. that shows how fluid this field is. the high level of dissatisfaction and a lot more action can occur. this is far from over.
>> i think these tea party candidates are auditioning people. and they change from sort of week to week. who they like. and i don't think they've really settled. and in the meantime, they have to sort of figure out at some point whether they can live with mitt romney or not. that's a big decision. >> it's back to bed with mitt romney. now a man obsessed with michael jackson. yes. he collected nearly $2 million of jackson memorabilia, including this crystal-covered glove. the united states is trying to seize that glove, along with $71 million in other assets from an african playboy. doj is trying to get his $30 million home in malibu, a gulfstream jet he owns worth $38.5 million, and a 2011 ferrari worth $500,000. the u.s. says nagoya, the son of the ruler of equatorial guinea, took money from oil and timber
deals and laundered it into the u.s. lanny brewer is the u.s. assistant attorney general of the criminal division. he told "outfront"-- the thing is the u.s. is part of how the man got his money in the first place. equatorial guinea is africa's third largest oil producer. nearly 100% of its trade comes from selling oil. who is the biggest trading partner in this corrupt leadership? yeah, the united states of america. it's something that got us thinking, america and china are competing in this great race in africa to get access to increasingly rare commodities like oil, copper and cobalt. when i was in congo, i met a regional governor who used some of the money he got in public transparent deals from american companies to build a road to his weekend house and he bragged
about driving his ferrari, the only one in the drc, on his new road to his new house. the truth is while america may dislike corrupt regimes, it will do business with them if they have something the u.s. needs. and that is the reality. the shocking confession made by bernie madoff's wife, ruth. how close they came to suicide. flu shots. a new study says they may not work for you. too bad because it's flu season. a story we cannot resist and readore. the lurid by details about silvio berlusconi's sex parties. [ boy ] hey, i thought these were electric? uh, it is, yeah, it's a chevy volt. so what are you doing at a gas station? well it still takes gas to go farther. but you're not getting gas. true. not this time. uh, don't have to gas up very often. so you have to go to the bathroom? no. yes you do. thought these were electric?
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now a story we cannot resist. this is a story about a guy who wants to dance. and the conservative authority that won't let him. but this is not a story about "footloose" or any of the other dancing movies so popular lately. no, this is a story about silvio berlusconi. that's the italian prime minister, in the news again insisting his infamous bunga bunga parties are innocent get-togethers and not, as widely reported, the lurid sexual escapades of italian emperors past. even though berlusconi has been accused of fraternizing with an underage girl and prostitutes dressed as nuns at his parties, that's amateur hour compared to what emperor tiberius did in this book.
as for berlusconi, he defends his antics. this isn't even his biggest problem right now. he faces constant demands for his resignation as italy's economy gets worse and worse and members of parliament got in a fist fight, a picture from today. he's not doing italy any favors right now. at least this craziness gives us an excuse to play a clip from 1984 "footloose." >> let's dance! ♪ totally loose, footloose, kick off your sunday shoes jack get back come on before we crack ♪ loose your blues, everybody cut footloose jack get back, come on
before we crack everybody cut ♪ everybody cut everybody cut everybody cut footloose >> we couldn't resist. still "outfront." school swindle. the pressure to succeed. >> i'd gone through bouts of depression just because you feel so swamped. motivated by money? >> do you think dr. murray's greedy? >> do i think? >> conrad murray's team pleads his case. unveiled. >> this is a remarkable sign of defiance in a deeply conservative islamic culture. shrimp today at red lobster.s as much as you like any way you like, like new sweet and spicy shrimp, all for $15.99.
we focus on our own reporting, do the work and find the "outfront 5." number one tonight, mitt romney is leading new cnn polls in four primary states. our polls show romney has a commanding lead in new hampshire and florida, tied basically the margin of error with herman cain, pulling in support from a key group tea-vangelists. number two, hurricane rina losing power as it gets closer to the mexican coast. it has dropped to a category 1
with wind speeds 85 miles an hour. according to the cnn severe weather team, the yucatan peninsula will get hit with rain and wind tomorrow. that's a far cry from the category 3 it was yesterday. number three, a study released today claims the flu shot is only effective in 59% of healthy adults. previous studies have found effectiveness to be as high as 90%. "outfront" spoke with the president of the national foundation for infectious diseases who dismissed the studies. our medical team adds better vaccines are needed. researchers have been working on them for the past five years. another reason i'm not getting the flu shot. freddie mac ceo haldeman will resign in the coming year. ken rosen told us the resignation has nothing to do with the future of freddie mac. in 2009 the government took control of freddie and fannie.
82 days since the u.s. lost its aaa credit rating. what are we doing to get it back? new revelations by ruth madoff that she and bernie tried to take their own lives in a christmas eve pact to end their misery. ruth madoff tells cbs' "60 minutes" we decided to kill ourselves because it was so horrendous what was happening. we had terrible phone calls, hate mail, just beyond everything. with me is brian ross, author of "the madoff chronicles: inside the secret world of bernie and ruth," and nick cassell, who was the last person to leave the apartment that christmas eve. thank you for being with us. you knew them well, you wrote this book and spent a lot of time, does this surprise you at all? >> it does surprise me. i think bernie madoff was an unlikely suicide candidate. he showed no remorse.
in fact, he showed scorn for people who were his victims and they committed suicide. he thought very little of them, thought they were weak. ruth is a different story. she was more distraught in many ways than bernie was and there was always concern about her. this revelation by ruth madoff to "60 minutes" comes, of course, after her son mark last year killed himself. >> terrible, yes. >> and mark's wife was on "20/20" on abc news this last friday essentially saying ruth abandoned mark and put some of the blame of mark's suicide on ruth. so there's a very ugly family tragedy playing out here. >> it is. it is, tragedy is the right word. what do you think happened? you were the last one to see them that night. >> i can tell you what i saw that night. and there was nothing different that night than there had been the nights prior. i arrived there 4:00, left about 7:00, give or take a few minutes. they were in the kitchen like they always were, discussing the day's events. there was nothing that demonstrated to me that they
were covertly planning a suicide. >> and their mood, i mean, i would imagine just in that whole period between when the revelations came of this whole scheme, now this event that supposedly happened, was it in any way normal? business, life as normal? >> it was indifferent. i guess a degree of indifference turns out to be the normalcy of the period. >> i guess that's a fair point. brian -- >> this was just two weeks, erin, after he was exposed as a scammer, with billions of dollars lost. with his own sons being disgusted at what their father had admitted to them and not speaking to them. they actually went to the fbi. he asked them to give him a week to get prepared, they went that day. he was arrested that day, the sons did not speak to him again, have not. >> you knew them a long time before this. >> i was brought in to submit
the bail modification agreement which won their freedom by their legal team, by dan sorkin and dan horowitz. in that period of time, getting to know them, discussing strategy and defense, pleading guilty, his mental state, ruth madoff was confused, i would say. and bernard madoff at the very least was stoic, his approach to what was going on. but what was more important was in the instant i didn't see anything that was a telltale sign that they were looking to or planned to commit any act that night. >> what did she have to gain? if it's a stretch or an exaggeration, is it a bid for sympathy? it seems this woman has been through so much. >> she's been through a lot. her sister was wiped out by her husband's scam. she was estranged from her remaining son, andrew, and they're both appearing on cbs "60 minutes" this sunday.
i think this is an attempt to get back with andrew and put bernie aside finally. when she had a choice between sticking with her husband or with her two sons, she chose her husband. now she seems to be reversing that. there have been reports she might get a divorce from bernie. i think she's finally through with bernie. they've been married now almost 52 years, coming up on 53 years. high school sweethearts here in the queens area of new york. she stuck with him. and in the view of mark's widow, that led, in part, to mark's suicide. so this is a woman who's been through a lot. and whether or not they try to kill themselves, clearly she's somebody who suffered deeply for what her husband did. she's always denied knowing anything about the scheme. >> right. >> although early on, she was the bookkeeper for bernie when he started working on a card table in the apartment there. >> thanks to both of you very much. appreciate your coming in, brian and nick. of course, brian, as we said, wrote the definitive book about ruth and bernie.
as we told you earlier in the show, the clock is ticking on another possible downgrade for america. americans do not think their elected leaders will step up and stop it. the latest poll shows, let's go with the 10%, because that is a little bit more indicative. 10% of americans trust their government to do the right then. 89% do not. i don't know about the other 1%. 84% of americans disapprove of congress. is this enough pressure on our elected leaders to get the job done? nancy is a former adviser to john mccain. jamal simmons is a democratic strategist. jamal, i have an e-mail here from an aide to a democratic member of the super committee saying, they did not leak the deal today. i'm referring of course to the leak that came of details of a democratic plan to cut up to $3 trillion, which was immediately shot down by republicans and threw a big bomb in the middle of this whole goal to get this done. what's going on here with the leaks do you think?
>> clearly, one side or the other is positioning against each other. and this notion that what's interesting to me is this notion that you were going to get all these democrats in this committee and none of them would have voted for something like medicare, medicaid cuts, it looks like now those cuts are on the table as well as tax increases. so you've seen some of these democrats people thought were maybe too liberal to go along with something like that, you've seen them maybe move over a little bit and be willing. we'll see what the republicans to do now. this does seem like there's some jockeying going on in the public square to see who's going to take the blame. >> do you think they're going to get a deal done? >> i don't know. given what they've come out with today, if this is it, the republicans would be better to take automatic spending cuts than something like this. it's bad politics and it's worse policy. talking about $1 trillion plus in tax increases with an economy in the shape we're in? if you went to someone floundering in the water, grabbed them and pushed their
head down and held them under. it is absolutely lousy economic policy. and i don't think it's good politics. >> here's what -- hold on for one sec, i want to give you a chance to respond. let me give you this first. i talked to the republican dave camp, super committee member, at the top of the program. i asked if it was fair to say a deal would have to have some sort of revenue increase. here's what he said. >> i think it's important that we not try to box people in or out, that we continue to have discussions. obviously, that's something that many people in the committee think is important to do. obviously i'm going to look at everything the committee does through the prism of, what is the best thing to grow our private sector committee, to create jobs in the u.s., and whatever policy it is, i think that's the analysis we need to take. >> he did not take tax increases off the table. >> he didn't. and i think that's very encouraging. because in order to get this deal done, listen, everybody in america is going to take a hit.
in order to deal with this deficit. nancy said it's bad to put taxes on business. one can make the argument it's bad to cut government spending in a recession because you're taking money out of the economy. it's bad to take money away from social security recipients because it's taking money out of the economy. there's all things that are going to have to happen to get this deal done. we've all got -- the committee members have got to be willing to look at it all in totality and not start crossing things off the list. >> thanks to both, we appreciate your time. students cheating on the s.a.t. are we pushing our children too hard in this country? protests in yemen. thousands of women burning their veils. where's baby lisa? new developments tonight from kansas city. of onstar to your car. [ computer ] onstar. we're looking for city hall. i'm sending directions to your car. turn right on hill street. go north for 2 miles. ♪ this is onstar. i got a signal there's been a crash. do you need help? yes, please.
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but will be giving away fruit. passafree copies of the alcoholism & addiction cure. to get yours, go to ssagesmalibubook.com. we do this at the same time every night, our "outer circle," where we reach out to sources around the world. tonight to turkey, where rescuers pulled a teenager and a teacher from collapsed buildings today. the death toll is still rising and survivors with no place to live are waiting for aid. diana magnay is in turkey. how are people managing there? >> reporter: erin, i'm in one of the villages hardest-hit by the earthquake. we'll pan round and show you the destruction. 15 people lost their lives here. 80% of the buildings are completely destroyed and the other 20% are no longer inhabitable. people are having to live in tents like this. some of them, 20 people to a tent. they say aid is coming in dribs and drabs, but it's not coming fast enough. bear in mind, a long, hard
winter is setting in and they don't expect to get even temporary housing until the spring. >> thank you very much, diana. now to thailand, where seven major highways have been shut down due to the country's severe flooding. residents told to flee, rising waters have closed bangkok's airport. what's the effect of the floods on the entire transportation system? sara sidner is there. >> reporter: erin, the capital bangkok is facing some serious transportation issues. the domestic airport, for example, has been shut down and we saw why. floodwaters have crept onto the runway. and then, of course, you have the freeways and the roads. many of the roads inundated by water. some of the freeways look more like rivers, better for boats than vehicles. but most of the capital is still dry. but officials are warning tourists and residents alike to prepare for the worst because the high tide has not yet made it here. erin? >> sara, thank you. now to yemen. thousands -- this is an amazing story, thousands of women
protesting president ali abdullah saleh's crackdown on anti-government demonstrations. the way they're doing it is by burning their veils. how significant is this? >> reporter: this is an extremely significant development. while we've seen more and more women anti-government demonstrators flooding the streets of yemeni cities, this is a remarkable sign of defiance in a deeply conservative islamic culture. according to some of the women protesters, they say this is the first time this has been done in the nine-month-long uprising. they say it was done for symbolic value. one, to call for help from the international community. and two, to ask yemeni tribes for their support and for their protection, especially from government crackdowns targeting peaceful anti-government demonstrators, specifically women and children. erin? >> all right, thank you very much, mohammad. women in yemen, as i experienced, certainly all were veiled. an emotional day of testimony at the michael jackson death trial. conrad murray's former patients
jumped to his defense. the doctor accused of causing the pop star's death through his reckless, even incompetent care, was brought to tears by the heartfelt support of the five patients who stood by him today. here's just a sample of what they said. >> that man sitting there is the best doctor i've ever seen. >> i have never had a doctor that was more caring. >> i've known him, i know him, i knew his love, compassion, his feelings for his patients. you can ask every one of them. >> all five of these character witnesses testified that without conrad murray, they wouldn't be alive today. but after 17 days of hearing how jackson died under murray's care, will the jury be swayed? ted rowlands following the case closely, still in l.a. monitoring. how did the jury respond to that testimony? >> reporter: i think absolutely, this testimony did resonate with this jury because they were all real people, all five people
speaking very honestly. i think it was very, very effective. >> and jackson family members, janet, la toya were there today, randy as well. how did they react? >> reporter: they were engaged as well, especially with the final witness, 82-year-old ruby moseley. in fact, randy jackson, she was getting off the stand, whispered over to janet, "she's sweet." they were smiling throughout her testimony as well. she really was a ray of sunshine in that courtroom today. >> it's interesting they did that. prosecutors have accused murray of abandoning his patients in las vegas and houston because he was being paid $150,000 a month by michael jackson. what did his patients have to say about that? doesn't seem they felt that way. >> they told the polar opposite story. in fact, they talked about his practice in houston, which is in an underserved community there. they say when you go to see dr. murray, he treats you first then asks if you have insurance, rather than vice versa, in those medical facilities. >> what about the medical defense -- medical experts
coming on the defense? anesthesiologist tomorrow. what do you think you'll hear? >> well, he's the defense case. if he comes through and hits a home run, they've got a chance here, basically. he's going to tell the jury a different version of the science that would enable a possibility that michael jackson accidentally killed himself. also a new twist tonight in the search for the 11-month-old baby, lisa irwin. investigators turning to the baby's half-brothers now for fresh clues in her disappearance. these boys are aged 8 and 6 and in their missouri home the night their baby sister was missing. that was more than three weeks ago t is also the last time investigators spoke with the boys, but now kansas city police say the brother also will be reinterviewed through is friday. why now? jim spillman is in kansas city. what, it interview? why this friday?
what do you think the boys can add? >> this growing divide between the investigators and the family. the mom and dad refuse to have an unfettered interview where they will be asked anything. that is on hold. the boys are crucial. we know that night that debra bradley, mother of baby lisa admits she was drinking and maybe black out. those two boys in the house will be crucial. the mom tell us through the attorney they had to balance what they say is the well being of the children, the trauma of being interviewed versus the needs of the investigation. they feel comfortable with the the new circumstances of going forward with this interview on friday. do you know why that would be useful at this point? >> they need to eliminate as much as of that dna as they can. they hope they will be able to get dna from an intruder. >> jim, thank you very much, appreciate it.
jim spellman, as you said, reporting from outside the irwin home in missouri tonight. still "outfront," six long island students busted for having another student take their s.a.t.s. is there anything that can excuse this? what punishment should be laid out? did the pressure make them do it? it's next. locity, with 24/7 customer support to help move them to the pool daddy promised! look at me, i'm swimming! somebody, get her a pony! [ female announcer ] the travelocity guarantee. from the price to the room to the trip you'll never roam alone.
now, the measure was put in place because of a cheating scandal at a long island high school where at least six students paid a former student to take the s.a.t. in their place. now according to the center for academic integrity, this is a stunning number. 68% of college kids admit to cheating either on tests or on written assignments. the documentary "race to nowhere" looks at the pressure students have placed on them to achieve. >> our students are pressured to perform. they're not necessarily pressured to learn deeply and conceptually. >> thanks for being with us. those statistics are pretty startling. have we always been a nation of cheaters and now we're picking it up in the polls? >> no, i don't think so. if you look back in the 1940s, the numbers were 20%, and now we have college students at rates of 65% to 98% who admit to cheating in high school. i think the trend is really scary and unfortunate. >> why do you think it's happening? is it as simple as there's so much pressure on kids to get
into college and that's why they're doing it or is it something more than that? influence behavior. we're also raising a generation >> i think it's a sad commentary on our culture on the one hand, and on the other hand, i think that we -- in education, there's so much competition and emphasis is on the test scores and the grades and so in that way we influence behavior. we're also raising a generation that is afraid of failure and they don't know how to deal with failures. >> so you've spent a lot of time -- i know your documentary has shown at schools around the country. how do we deal with this problem? if kids cheat, how should we punish them? >> i think absolutely we do need to look at the consequences of cheating and then importantly, we as adults in this culture, need to look at our own behavior. i think our kids look to us and
when they see us bending the rules, not only on wall street, what do we expect them to do? i think absolutely we want to be looking at what are the consequences for cheating and then i think we need to look at the measures and stakes that we've placed on these tests and re-evaluate that and develop whole children, not only a nation of good test takers. >> that's true. i was a terrible test taker. i agree with you on that. i was talking to someone on that and they said here's the problem. we're in a situation where you have little kids under the age of 5 and they go to play games and everybody has been to be a winner. they all get a trophy. someone said when my kid found out all the other kids got a trophy, he threw it away and said i don't care. everyone is used to being a winner that from a young age, it may contribute to a situation we're in today. >> i think we're trying to move away from that as a culture. i might point to the fact that we're asking young people to do
things that are developmentally out of sync from where they are. when your 5-year-old comes home from school with a reading log they can't complete on their own and you complete that in an effort to get it done and allow them to go to bed, we teach them at a young age that we do what we have to to jump through the hoops. that's a bigger problem. >> is this something where -- this could stick with you forever. how do you learn the lesson where the kid should obviously if a school found out, they're not going to get into that school, right? this is something that could taint you for the rest of your life. >> i'm not convinced that it needs to taint you for the rest of your life. i absolutely think there needs to be a consequence and this kind of behavior needs to be reported to the schools. again, i think as a culture, as a society, we need to rethink the emphasis that we're placing on these high-stakes tests. >> all right. thank you very much. we really appreciate your taking the time. it's amazing