tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN April 6, 2012 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
fair. accusing the other side is nothing more than fear mongering. have a happy easter and passover. "ac 360" starts now. >> thanks. we begin with breaking news. even more to tell about a top story today. a navy fighter jet crashing into a virginia beach apartment complex after take off this morning. searching at least more victims at this point. they saw the planes going down and nose in the air and dumping fuel before it crashed. sending fire and thick black smoke into the air and an eyewitness joining us now by telephone. can you hear me? >> yes, i can. >> me everything you saw.
>> i was sitting on the couch and heart a big bang and went to the door and my uncle was there. we both came out and looked up and saw the smoke behind the building. he cut back through the house and he was talking and my uncle was there with him. my uncle is an emt and retired. i went throughout the building complex saying to get out and we have to get away. a lot of people were home. the pilot may have said to the witnesses on the scene that he was sorry he crashed into the
home. was it anything like that? >> he was walking to the pilot. he said to my uncle. yes, i did hear that. >> matthew edwards joining us as an eyewitness to the scene. barbara star is standing by and what's the latest from the pentagon on what happened and how this happened? >> we told them a good part of the day happened when this training flight took off from the naval air station. a two-seater f 18. by all accounts it ran into trouble. it crashed into this apartment building about two miles from the runway. the assumption is it did not achieve altitude before the pilots realized they were in trouble, forcing them into an injection. a low altitude and pilots as we talked about were trained to try to steer the plane away from populated areas.
they may not have had any choice. we had reports that fuel was coming out of the plane and the initial indications from the navy are that that was not dumping, but rather part of what this catastrophic mall function may have been that led to the fu fuel. this was a catastrophic malfunction and the data recorder will be looking to pick up the debris from this. they can look at it and analyze what happened. that is about the fuel being released from the plane beforehand. the fuel was being dumped and the impact was not as critical. this is the lake up of the plane.
>> these are very initial reports and they don't seem to think it was necessarily what you and i would call a pilot dumping feel for safety reasons, but part of the malfunction. it's very early on and they will be investigating and trying to determine what happened. the fact is this it crashed less than two miles from the runway. it's the clearest indication that it ran into trouble and we were not able to achieve significant altitude. >> any credence to that they will be able to try to bring it down? >> the ocean is quite close down and pilots would be trained to go away from the areas and they would tell you in these circumstances they will do everything they can to not hit civilian areas.
they will put the plane in the water and try to check before they run the risk of sitting civilians. this is the last thing that any u.s. military would want to do. the fact that they were not able to steer it away and not able to make it to water is another indication of how quickly this unfold and how very catastrophic it was so quickly. >> there was a report i heard as this was developing that the seat, the ejector seat was found at a location that seemed to indicate preliminarily that that pilot may have stay with that plane as long as possible. really until just about the crash zone. is there credence to that? >> they will look at that. they will talk to both the crew members to get the detail about the timeline of all of this. if a pilot and a u.s. navy pilot
thought he could not avoid the area, it's very safe to say he would stay with the plane as long as he or she could to try to do whatever they could and come to a point where there would be no choice but to eject. that is what they did. there has been discussion and the navy confirmed there was one so-called student pilot on board and experienced instructor. what was his plan doing? they were practicing the equivalent of carrier landings. character landings on land, but even a student pilot that would be in a navy f-18 would be a highly qualified, highly trained person working with a pilot on the landings. if that is something they are
discussing, that would suggest his or her condition is good at this point. >> you saw that the pilot apologized for hitting the apartment building. at this point it may change through the night still. both of the pilots are okay. one released and one still being treated. still let's be very clear here. emergency service are continuing to search the wreckage and the buildings. there mixed reports and mixed numbers about whether or not there may still be people on the ground missing. there residents that clearly may be away from the homes. they are walking through and trying to track down apartment by apartment who lived there and how many people lived there and trying to make sure they know
where they are and they are safe. everyone is hopeful. there is the final count that is holding their breath to see what the final situation is on the number of people on the ground. >> don't go anywhere. i have another question for you. i want to jump in with someone who does live there. matthew is an eyewitness. can you hear me? >> i can. >> i want to ask you about those who may be unaccounted for at this time. do you know emergency services continued to comb through the area going through the burning embers and every spot they can in the residents. do you know anything about who is unaccounted for? do you have an idea of who is left to be found? >> i have sort of an idea. we were speaking with the general manager and doing a count of all of the neighbors. all of my neighbors and the neighbors from the crash are pretty much accounted for. an older late that i didn't hear
about. but i'm sure she is okay because she was not home at the time. i believe everybody got out. the only people and the things that were hurt are animals and buildings. >> we were looking at pictures a moment ago of what seemed like civilians and residents running in to help and pull water hoses for firefighters. can you me about the effort to help with the bystanders? >> i put my hand on the hose and the firefighter asked me to help out. it was amazing to see them around and the firefighters said one thing. pulling hoses and bringing blocks and whatever. >> the emergency services will be going through the night.
does it seem organize and is it cordoned off? >> very organized. i haven't seen this much police presence and rescue squads and fire department in my life. i lived here 30 something years and i am used to it. you hear about them and when one is in your back yard, a lost heat. i have at least six who may be accounted for. at least 30. thank you for your time and perspective on this. >> thank you. the pilots really did their job. >> thank you as well. you will update us as you find
the unemployment rate fell to 8.2%. president obama doing his very, very best to put a spin on this. a positive one. he admitts the economy has a long way to go. >> we learned the economy added 212,000 private sector jobs after losing 8 million jobs, we added more than three million jobs over the past 22 months. our businesses just added 233,000 jobs last month. for a total of feeler four million new jobs over the last two years. more company are choosing to bring jobs back and invest in america. >> manufacturers are hiring
again. >> we have seen signs our economy is creating jobs at a faster rate. >> the economy is getting stronger. the economy is agreeing stronger. >> we are heading in the right direction and we won't let up. >> republicans are using the numbers to slam president obama's record. mitt romney said this. it is increasingly clear the obama economy is not working and after three years in office the president's excuses have run out. let's bring in the contributor to answer tough questions about this. what is mitt romney saying that? >> losing 3/4 of a million. i'm a big believer that the economy is good. i don't think people like to
hear that. i think the numbers last month were very good either. think the president needs to talk more about the middle class and how he is not satisfied with the pace and why he has a bill that will do nothing for congress and things like that. i don't think 120,000 is a good number and 220,000 is a good number when you put it in context. >> you are the guy who calls yourself the professional democrat and if you are not able to put a positive spin on it, how can the campaign? >> i don't know that the campaign has to. >> when the campaign had a large number of people who said no, they are not, if he thinks they are, he doesn't get my life and by the way, he can say romney wants to double down on the nest
that got us here. i think the president can come across like he is fighting and he is unsatisfied and proposing things and the republican keeps on blocking him. that's a much better message than things getting better. that is not going to work. >> for he can harness the message, there was an article in the journal saying the republicans are going to say it has not been this bad of a recovery since the great depression. are they wrong? how does president obama take that message and make it better? it's good, but not good enough. >> it's simple. the worst recession than the one their policies cost. why would we go back? the president would be well to argue that he is working day and night to try to do this, but he
is unsatisfied with the pace of this recovery and it's going to take a long time before people's incomes get back up. middle class is getting hit by a track. that needs to be acknowledged. >> when you started this interview, and 3/4 of a million jobs and that's not good either. he's the assistant to president obama's economic policy. the hold the president inherited is deep and we are making progress, but nowhere close to satisfied. at what point do you say this is 2012 and that was 2009. you get these questions all the time. when do you have to say my job can't continue to blame the administration before me. >> i don't know. first of all he is not blaming. >> i will repeat it. he said the president inherited
a very deep. that's what he is talking about. not from day one. >> what he said is accurate. the other thing is, what can be pointed out, however bad and this president created more jobs and that's private sector jobs. one of the things that caused this to be horrific and the president pointed this out, we lost at least 600,000 public sector jobs since the recovery started. my point is that we should agree that this number is not good enough. that's a tepid number. >> do you think we will dip below 8% before the election? >> i don't know. the people will look and i have no idea.
>> do we have to dip below? >> i look in july of 2004 and create 73,000 jobs president bush got reelected. another thing is romney is the most unpopular challenge in the history and he has to run against president obama. the number that had recession has been very, very difficult on a lot of families, particularly the middle class family. if they did not acknowledge that, he told people that you are not in touch with what's going on. >> i would love to be a fly on the wall to hear what your wife has to say. >> any night. >> take a look look. they have a lot of flyers. >> we have breaking news we want to bring you in the trayvon martin case. an eyewitness to the tragedy.
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360. a key witness to the killing of trayvon martin who said police turned down what might have been important information about this case. he talked about whose voice they heard crying for help. martin's or george zimmerman. an explanation of their client's head injuries. shaken baby syndrome and a case that is pooked with too much information and too few hard facts. nearly six weeks since george zimmerman shuffled, we still don't know what happened in the minute or so before it began. did martin stop and successor punch zimmerman or did they confront martin and again, no hard faxes. with zimmerman being beaten and his brother said it was the scuffle that was mirp enough for zimmerman to get up and walk
around the police station unharmed. we have grainy videotape and no medical records and no proof yet as to who was crying out for help and who was on top when the deadly shot was fired. speculation and accusations, but no resolution. they are sticking to the fact and they spend that and we know it offered one of the eyewitnesss. the actual eyewitness that confirmed to the reporter and the producers on the ground that this witness lives in a complex and she has spoken with police. she broke her silence and hasn't spoken with anybody else. we are bringing her back and tonight she has a lot more to play. we spoke earlier this evening and we are showing her in shadow to conceal her identity.
>> when you heard the voices that night, you can characterize what kind of scream you heart? >> there was two for help and the first one was a very clear, loud for help. it was the second one that stays with me. it was almost like a yelp. like a devastating desperate yell for help and couldn't have been a cry. >> did it sound like you could determine someone in his late 20s or late teens? >> from the very beginning and i feel it was beyond that young boy. >> do you mean a 17-year-old? >> yes, not knowing either person, i just kind of think there was the boy and there was the man. the boy was 17. >> knowing now what you know, go back to that night.
at the time you didn't know how old anybody was. when you heart the yell, did you make a determination? >> i definitely could tell it was a younger youthful voice than the deep voice that i heart when they were arguing and i heard them outside. >> me about the argument. >> i didn't hear the words, but i could hear someone arguing and yelling and not like having a conversation. >> were they both yelling? >> i could still hear the younger person's voice, but the other was more dominant and loud. >> what was the younger voice saying and what context? >> you can still here the other person's voice, but not as much and aggressive. >> can you make out anything?
>> i knew it wasn't something having a conversation. it was serious. >> it sounded like a confrontation? >> yes. >> did it sound like one was being confronted? >> i would have to say both. you heard that one louder dominant voice more than you hear the other one. >> the older person's voice or the deeper voice. >> yes. >> did you hear racial slurs in the confrontation? >> no, i did not hear any words. just arguing. >> did it sound serious enough that someone was going to get hurt? >> i knew it was something definitely wrong. of course then when i saw next the two men were on the ground. >> when you called 911, what did you tell them? >> there were two men on the ground. >> did you talk to the dispatcher at the time? >> yes, i did.
>> what did they ask you and what did you tell them? >> i was watching and talking at the same time. not hearing what a gun sounds like in person, it was more of a popping noise. i think in my mind i'm thinking that they will probably have a gunshot, but you are in disthat this is happening. >> did you say i think i heard a gunshot? >> yes. >> what did the distacher ask? >> i said i hear popping noises and i think it's a gunshot. >> did the dispatcher ask for descriptions of what was going on as you were talking? >> it was more that i was describing. i'm watching a movie and telling you on the phone what i'm hearing. i even talked myself and said why am i telling him on the phone. let me put this up to the screen and he can hear it.
>> sorry that what you did? >> yes. >> so the dispatcher could hear? >> yes, but i'm not sure what point i put it up. i said maybe you can hear it. >> where were you looking at the moment the gun fired? >> i was looking at the two men on the ground. >> you tell who was on the bottom? >> i know it was dark, but i would have to say i thought it was the larger person on top. >> when the gunfire went off, what happened to the larnler man on top? >> i would say a couple mnt minutes later, he was walking to where i could see him. >> at the moment the fun shot went off, what happened with the larger man? >> obviously the other man, the boy was dead and the other person got up and was walking away from the body. >> when you first saw him coming
towards you, could you see blood on his face and was it light enough for to you see any blood on his face? >> it was not light enough for me to see. >> so there could have been and it's not something you could testify to? >> i could not testify. i did not see. >> did he say anything? >> there was a man that came out with a flashlight who was a resident and they possibly were saying something to each other and could not hear the words. >> your experience with the police that night, did they ask you about questions and were they interested in hearing your account? >> yes. the lead investigator came into my house with a police officer and i taped what i witnessed. >> what kind of questions did they ask you? >> just what i saw and what i heard. >> did they seem interested?
were they in depth in the interview? >> i'm not sure in depth, but just that i told what i saw and heard. >> i did offer to show them where i did see the incident and they said we don't need to see it. >> they were not interested in you taking them to that location? >> they were not. >> why do you suppose they were not interested in. >> were you surprised? >> i don't know how investigators think. >> you offered to take them to the location where you saw them fighting? >> yes. >> they declined? >> yes. >> are you surprised? >> i can't answer either way. >> did you get a feeling one way or another from the investigators things they may have said in your unit as to how this unfolded? >> after i finished the taping and feeling quite upset, i
expressed that and we would forget the yells for help. i wish i could have done something and the lead investigator said to me kindly, if it makes you feel any better, the person yelling for help was alive. >> the lead investigator has been reportedly an account of his said been to another resident who had a 10-year-old boy who called 911 that he didn't believe mr. zimmerman's story. does that surprise you? >> it was kind of up to me at the time to think wow, i thought it was the boy crying for help, but the investigator is saying no, it was mr. zimmerman. >> where you saw the fight taking place, was there a hard surface anywhere nearby? a sidewalk or a street?
>> is the back of the complex? the back of the homes were facing where it happened and there is a sidewalk. when i watched it, they were always on the grass. >> how much how far away was the sidewalk some. >> i would say about four feet. >> they were about four feet away from a hard surface? >> yes. >> if mr. zimmerman said his head was being slammed against the sidewalk and he was trying to maneuver himself on to the grass, would that make sense? >> i can't speak for him. i know from the time i watched it was on the grass. >> were the police receptive to your attempts to fill them in on further details after this incident? >> we had the community meeting with everyone and my development and they came and said it was critical and they have anything to say and something they witnessed. they left their business cards
on the doors and i just know me for, i called the detective twice and have not received the phone call back. you surprised by that? >> i just thought that they would call me back. >> again, a witness in the case of the shooting of trayvon martin afraid to show her identity, but speaking with us in silhouette to tell her story. as to the allegation that the police were not terribly interested in the reenactment or a tour of the scene she witnessed at altercation, we called the police for their response, but we didn't get a call back. it was late at night. on another note, one of the questions about the eyewitness that was 10 years old, in fact 13 years old. misspeaking there. moving on, i spoke with the eyewitness's attorney, derek bret. he said something interesting about the state attorney who by
the way has finally just two days ago interviewed the witness and decided they need to be interviewed. it happened on wednesday. it was unusual about the lack of thoroughness that he saw in the state's investigation. have a listen. >> did you feel confident that the state attorney was thorough in its questioning of your client? >> if this was a first time questioning session, then i would be concerned. they had lefts from the client and at least whatever notes were taken by the lead investigator. it's difficult to sur vise what
they told us and what the investigators say. do i think there could have been other questions asked? yes. was i in a position to help them fill in the blanks or ask questions to my client? that's not my job. if the job or investigator, even if it is necessary to reiterate questions. >> what was lacking? >> it was general. it was trying to fill in from their perspective, but there were some holes that they saw. 15 minutes and questions. >> that's all the time the interview took? >> the actual questioning.
>> how about the interview? i think i'm very much in the role. they asked the same questions. a good attorney will ask about the cross-examination in the courtroom. >> in this case? >> i would have had her do the entire story. let me tell you something. i sat through my client's interview and you asked more questions and less about this case than state attorneys's office did a couple of days ago. >> we're contacted them about the account and they declined to comment because the investigation is ongoing. that's standard in the situation like this. george zimmerman's lawyers were listening to the interviews with the eyewitness and her attorney and so were mark geragos and sunny hostin and you will hear from all of them, next.
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>> an eyewitness said police showed limited interest in what she said she knew. they turned down the offer to show them potentially important information in the case. joining us now is george zimmerman's legal team. welcome to both of you. i think off the very start of this interview, we should ask you to react to the claim that is the witness said the police
were not interested in having her take them to the spot where she witnessed the scuffle and she wanted to show them a reenactment. does that trouble you in. >> not particularly. it's a matter of how you try to evaluate what she perceive and what she did. the scuffle took place and shots rang out. it's not hard to find the spot to where that happened. that may have been their take on it. we appreciate your help and tell us what you saw and heard. we know where it happened. >> she also said she was quite certain this time and she has been interviewed before and seemed to have fuller or more robust details that night. she was certain that the larger hispanic-looking man was on top of the boy. that's her account. at the time the shots hang out. he got up and started walking
towards her. >> i read through her testimony from the last time and this time. it doesn't appear that she was sure what she saw. it was dark and that is going back to her. >> i don't think she is sure what she saw. >> she seemed confident that the person's voice was what she called immature and feels it was the boy. >> i'm not sure when she came to that conclusion. >> they were put out in the public and it was a picture of a 12-year-old and the little boy came to get the skittles. >> they were 17 years old. >> i heard voices like this and voices like mine. >> i'm not sure they were a conclusion of what would cause
her to think that it's too dark to tell who's who. they recognize one of them as a boy. the shorter version that came out earlier in the case, but do you have that? how do you know that? >> we have reason. he would be about 6'2" or 6'3". >> so voracious with every detail and they want to know everything. they have been in the murder courtrooms that forensics are everything. what do we know about the forensics of this case? without this we have nothing. >> it hasn't been released. the state attorney is doing an investigation and right now they did not disclose the information. >> we are not in a legal situation at this point. >> i am not going to disclose that. we have been in contact and the
disagreement that anything we do or might know, if there charges filed, they are going to plead not guilty. we will bond them out. a discovery at which we will have 15 days to get the discovery. that's the biggest discovery we v. everybody jumped to the conclusions and we are not trying to put anyone down. everyone wants to know what happened. we want to let the evidence come out. they are all good questions and there will be good answers. we had the legal mind and we were cautious about the details that people witnessed. we had a congresswoman from florida and on the hill on march 27th had this to say. have a listen.
>> this investigation is laced with racial profiling and lies and murder. he was chased, tackled and shot. they will concede the laws and all contributed to the tragedy. mr. zimmerman should be arrested immediately for his own safety. >> he was hunted, chased, tackle and shot. >> among the most irresponsible and uninformed statements, we heard a lot of uninformed statements made in the past. she was not there. she is reacting to at the same times made at rallies from people who were not there. from conclusions made by people with agendas. she knows it was racial
profiling. >> do you think they should put george zimmerman out? >> his safety is very much -- i can't imagine a situation where prior to the decision to charge or indied, i would have the families make the statement. they will have an opportunity to tell the public what happened. >> a question for you on cbs this morning, shaken baby syndrome and i'm confused about it means. whether this is a description and you shake a baby and you can die when someone is pounding your head on the ground. put it into context. >> liam's wife, for an adult the
way that injury happens, you smack your head on the ground, the brain smacks around and it's a way to injury someone. you can dis-orient someone or kill them. >> you were talking about the state of mind or are you talking about a potential defense in terms of capacity? >> neither one. >> if you necessary reasonable fear of great bodily injury, you allowed to use whatever forces necessary to stop yourself from getting that injury. if you had your nose broken, you are smacking your head into the ground and whatever disorientation that causes, you have a gun they may use. the question is are you in reasonable fear and apprehension of great bodily injury. that's what it means.
. >> they can know the bill and the state attorney can file charges or no bill it. those are the possibilities of things that can happen and without having all the details, it's hard to say what's going to happen. >> that's where the story ends. because we don't have the details yet. i look forward to another chance to speak with you. thanks for coming in. >> thank you. let's bring in criminal defense attorney mark geragos and analyst and former prosecutor, sunny hostin. i will begin with you. you have been able to listen in on the witness of what she thinks she saw. she feels she saw the larger man of hispanic description on top of what she said is the boy after the shot is fired. he gets up and walks towards her. yet she does say it's too dark to determine if there is blood or injury on his face. do you make anything of it? >> it corroborates with two others and what they described.
i spoke to two other witnesses and they described the same thing. they both described seeing george zimmerman traveling trayvon martin and walking away. we can learn from what all the witnesses are saying, all the facts that we are learning with a lot of conflicting evidence here. when you have conflicting evidence, you know this. that's something that is tried. that's the case that goes to trial. and we haven't seen an arrest or charges. >> when you say conflicting information, there is no shortage of information, but faxes are at a premium these days. the congresswoman said she witnessed the case and begins to argue. >> there is evidence to support what the congresswoman said. they tackled and shot.
>> the girlfriend is on the phone. she is on the phone with trayvon's girlfriend and thought she was tackled. he said he followed trayvon martin and the dispatcher said you don't need to do that. she said she needed to hear the confrontation. >> i sell it think hunted and choiced is language for a case that she called him a little boy as well. she seemed ill-skilled in the facts of this case. let me jump to mark geragos. every time i play the devil's advocate my twitter lights up like this. thank god i'm not a defense attorney. >> exactly. >> in this case i feel as though that if it ever ends up in a courtroom which is a possibility, forensics will be critical. on top of trayvon martin got up
and got off. how do we get a gunshot wound to the chest. a victim facedown in the grass who is about 160 pounds. >> that's precisely what one of the problems are here. i have to tell you, your intro was a closing argument for the defense. in terms of the conflicting evidence and the direct examination, i think this witness helps the defense in some ways. if you take a look at that law down here, they studied it a little bit. they determined that one of the reasons i think that there was not a filing and they basically arrested him to let go, this law reads if you are in reasonable fear, there is immunity from being arrested. >> mark? >> i think one of the problems -- >> they said if you are the first aggressor, you cannot avail yourself.
>> we're opened up a can of worms. >> sin, before we go down there, that's the problem. that's the problem. they can't determine that yet. they really can't. >> i have seven minutes until the end of the program, but i can go another hour and 20 with you guys. i look forward to further discussions. we'll be right back after this. while it built up in my system. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix is proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these, stop taking chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you develop these, stop taking chantix and see your doctor right away as some can be life-threatening. if you have a history of heart or blood vessel problems, tell your doctor if you have new or worse symptoms. get medical help right away
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the 360 bulletin. >> we begin in syria four days before. opposition groups say they fired killing at least 48 people. they will pull troops out of towns and cities by tuesday. a 360 follow. police believe they may have found the gun used in the ram in oikos university. it does match the serial number of one goh. he is charged with one charge of murder and three counts of attempted murder. showing off one of the smallest bunnies who weighs 2 1/2 ounces. we wouldn't resist.
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