tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN May 19, 2012 1:00am-2:00am PDT
he didn't want any thanks. he just thought it was the right thing to do, to pay back. i congratulate you for facebook tonight. like winston churchill said, we make a living by what we get but we make a life by what we give. i hope the facebook guys understand that, too. newly released evidence in the trayvon martin shooting. for the first time, the interview with trayvon martin's girlfriend and for the first time we learned there is an eyewitness that said they saw the fight between trayvon martin and george zimmerman. we know trayvon martin died with a gunshot wound and the chest and we know that george zimmerman pulled the trigger. the evidence itself shows two different stories of what
happened that night. each piece of the puzzle can be seen in a number of ways. we've been going through the evidence all last night and all today. some of it, though, speaks for itself. surveillance video from the convenience store where trayvon martin bought candy and iced tea, compelling only if not for the fact it shows the teenager in his last moments alive. a recording between the assistant state attorney in florida and trayvon martin's girlfriend. they were talking on the phone that evening just before the shooting. she told investigators that trayvon martin told him a man was watching him from a car and following him, so trayvon martin started to run. here's part of that interview. >> let me make sure i understand this. so trayvon tells you that the guy's getting closer to him. >> yeah. >> and then you hear trayvon saying something? >> yeah. >> what do you hear trayvon saying? >> why are you following me for.
>> why are you following me for. >> yeah. >> then what happened? >> i heard this man, like old man say, what are you doing around here? >> okay. so you definitely could tell another voice that was not trayvon. >> yeah. >> and you heard this other voice say what? >> what are you doing around here? >> what are you doing around here? okay. >> i called trayvon, trayvon, what's going on? >> that's you saying that? >> yeah. >> okay. >> then i called out him and i got no answer from trayvon. i could hear the grass thing. >> out of the -- okay, then what happened. >> and then i was still screaming, trayvon, trayvon! >> there was no response. >> and the next thing i -- the phone just shut off.
>> it shut off? >> the phone shut off. >> can you hear any screaming like help me or anything like that? >> no. >> did you hear any kind of shot? >> no. >> we know from the call that zimmerman made to 911 that he was told not to follow martin. listen. >> are you following him? >> yeah. >> okay, we don't need you to do that. >> okay. >> also just released, a stanford police report called the capias which is a request for charges to be filed. that report is dated march 19 and it says, the encounter between george zimmerman and trayvon martin are unavoidable. if zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and a waited the arrival of law enforcement or conversely if he had identified himself to martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialogue in an effort to dispel each party's story that trayvon martin was involved in any criminal activity of any kind. randi kaye has more.
>> the first evidence of george zimmerman told officers that trayvon martin attacked him and threw his head into the concrete. if that's true, are these wounds consistent with a head hitting pavement? documents released last week showed zimmerman had bruises to his forehead, bleed and go -- bleeding and terpdness to his nose. zimmerman declined to be transported to the hospital even after he told officers that his head hurt and he felt light-headed. and there's this. if there was a prolonged struggle, would zimmerman's dna be on trayvon martin's hands? an analysis of scrapings from underneath the teenager's finger nails did not contain any of zimmerman's dna. but the autopsy done on martin does show a cut, quote, a
one-quarter by 1/8 inch small abrasion on the left fourth finger, evidence he may indeed have been punching zimmerman. and the encounter with zimmerman after the shooting found him winded. >> he was having a hard time because he looked like he had gotten his butt whoopd, so he was a little bit more of, you know, not shock but like just getting up type of thing. >> there's also another question. if the two men fought, who was it that neighbors heard yelling for help? in a 911 call, one man recalled a man shouting help or help me 38 times in 24 seconds. listen to this 911 call. you can hear someone yelling in the background. >> do you think he's yelling help? >> the discovery showed competing series of events. one thought they heard a young boy screaming for help.
one witness, witness 6, as he's called in the document, thought it was the voice of a grown man. >> there was a brac man with a black hoodie on top of either a white guy or now that i found out that he was a hispanic guy, with a red sweatshirt on, on the ground, yelling out help. >> the fbi looked into this, too. but their audio analysis was inconclusive, saying it couldn't determine whose voice it was due to the, quote, extreme emotional state of the person yelling plus overlapping voices. the fbi said there was an insufficient voice quality on the recording. and what about that racial slur zimmerman, a white hispanic, allegedly used when describing trayvon? >> the back entrance. >> fbi said they could not discern the language zimmerman used due to a weak signal and poor recording quality.
that is key to the evidence. if he used a racial slur, the chances zimmerman would be charged with a hate crime diminish. but the discovery with one of the zimmerman's coworkers said something else. the man, who is middle eastern, says he is a racist and a bully. >> i was portrayed like the -- i don't know if you ever watched comedy, this guy called ahmed the terrorist? >> no. >> okay, so it's a little guy, he's got this weird voice and some, that was me in the story, so the story turned my accent to, no, i kill you! >> in his 911 call just before the shooting, zimmerman indicated the teenager looked like he was on drugs or something. but even though we now know trayvon's blood had thc in it, the active ingredient in
marijuana, that may not mean he was high. one toxicologist cautioned thc can linger in a person's system for days, even spike after death. and hln's dr. drew pinsky warned marijuana typically does not make someone more agressive. you would think we would be closer to learning the truth about what happened, but really, the one thing we know for sure is that a single gunshot fired straight into the chest of trayvon martin killed him. randi kaye, cnn, atlanta. >> one note, in a story published in today's atlanta sentinel, the witness described as witness 6 who said he heard it was zimmerman yelling for help later told florida law enforcement he wasn't so sure who it was. joining me now live is former los angeles deputy district attorney, author of "guilt by degrees." how important were zimmerman's
wounds on those pictures during the trial? >> i think they are highly significant. i think those are going to be defense exhibits as the first thing they can introduce and through the very first witness they put on. those are consistent with everything that he said, you know, contrary to what people were speculating on in terms of the tape when you see him cleaned up at the police station, this shows him bleeding with cuts and everything else. i don't know that it's going to be the death knell for the prosecution, but it certainly is something that the defense is going to want to put out there. >> martin's girlfriend was on the phone with him. we played part of that recording. i want to listen to what she said to authorities a little bit more. >> let me make sure i understand. it was trayvon saying that? >> yeah, that's why i was calling his name. >> he was saying what now? >> get off. >> is it clear you were hearing that or you think you heard it? >> no, i could hear him say, get off, get off. >> she said she could hear him
say get off, get off. how critical do you think that is from the girlfriend? >> very critical. the girlfriend's testimony is actually compelling. when it comes to a credibility challenge, and there will be a challenge to her credibility because she is so pivotal, people will look at this and the prosecution will point out she could have embellished her statement a great deal more than she did, but she did not. it comes across as extremely forthright and candid and very unembellished. very truthful testimony. she makes a case for them that this was an attack provoked by zimmerman, that he was the one going after trayvon martin, that he was the one that kept pursuing, that he was the one that initiated the confrontation, and very likely initiated a civil confrontation with trayvon martin, bumped him, caused him to drop his phone, and because he made a confrontation, that's going to be very difficult for the defense.
>> i'm not sure those statements come in. there are some u.s. supreme court cases recently. i would bet you the defense challenges her ability to testify to what was said in that conversation. >> based on? >> hearse. -- hearsay. you don't have the -- marcia knows what i'm talking about. >> i do, and he's right. mark invite, there is going to be a big challenge, a big fight. i think it comes in as an excited utterance, if you will, on trayvon's part. i think the testimony will be admitted but there will be a big fight to keep it out. >> the fact she didn't come forward, she was kind of tracked down by trayvon martin's father getting the cell phone records, calling the number. does that speak to her credibility at all? >> yes. if it gets in, and part of the challenge is going to be, wait a second, she's going to testify. you can't cross examine the declareant, that being trayvon
martin, and the judge may not let it in. but if they do, there will be challenges to her credibility. without destroying her or anything else, there would be a surgical quality to the cross examination to try and show that what she heard and what she remembers hearing was not quite what she thinks it is. >> just very quickly from both of you, marcia, how do you think things look for george zimmerman right now? >> i do think there has been some support for his defense in the release of these latest documents, but anderson, i have to tell you, i look at these injuries and i think, really? are these the injuries of someone who justifiably, reasonably -- that's a really important word here -- reasonably believes that his life was in imminent moral peril. i don't think so. not to me. i could see how this wound on the back of the head could have occurred as a result of him falling, because after he
attacks trayvon, trayvon fights back, they both fall to the ground. we know that's true, both sides will concede that. and if trayvon is actually whaling on him which the defense will show, he's going to need more than a quarter inch scratch on his finger. >> if this was any jurisdiction other than a stand your ground jurisdiction like florida, i would say this is going to trial. it would be a no-brainer other than a probable cause shooting. but after seeing this evidence, i think there is a legitimate shot for the defense here to get a ruling that he is immune and that this case doesn't go to trial. it's by no means a slam dunk, but i think there is a shot. >> okay. appreciate it. follow me on facebook and twitter at anderson cooper. let me know what you think about that, mark, and marcia's assessment on anderson cooper. mitt romney is back saying he helped create 100,000 jobs while he was at bain capital.
capital. the numbers don't add up. i'll explain that in a moment, but first some background. romney's claim on creating jobs came in response to a new series of ads released this week by the obama campaign attacking romney's record at bain. now, one ad focuses on the closure of a kansas city steel mill which led to big job losses. it features workers who say that romney and bain ruined their lives. watch. >> bain capital was the majority owner. they were responsible. mitt romney was deeply involved in the influence that he exercised over these companies. >> they made as much money off of it as they could and they closed it down. they filed for bankruptcy without any concern for the families or the communities. >> like a vampire. came in and sucked the life out of us. >> vampire that suck the life out of us, strong words. romney says he wasn't even at bain at the time. here is what he said wednesday about the ad to conservative talk radio host ed morrisey on "hot air." >> said, oh, gosh, governor romney at bain capital close
down a steel factory, but their problem, of course is that the steel factory closed down two years after i left bain capital. i was no longer there. so, that's hardly something which is on my watch. >> it is true, romney wasn't there. he was still bain's ceo in 2001 when the plant closed but he was working in the salt lake city winter olympic games, not on the bain projects. which brings to the claim he helped add a whole lot of jobs. here is what he said next on "hot air." >> of course, they also don't mention a couple of other things. one is that we were able to help create over 100,000 jobs. and secondly, on the president's watch, about 100,000 jobs were lost in the auto industry and auto dealers and auto manufacturers. >> so a couple things on that those 100,000 jobs that romney is claiming they helped create, they came after he left bain. remember, just a second ago, we showed you how he says he was not responsible for what happened at bain after he left in terms of job losses but credit for jobs created after he
left he will take. not jobs lost after he left. seems like he may want to have it both ways. also in that clip, you heard him say on president obama's watch, 100,000 jobs were lost in the auto industry. well, data from the bureau of labor statistics showed the number of jobs in the auto industry has actually increased since president obama has been president. joining me now live is political contributors mary matalin and james carville. is mitt romney trying to have it both ways, not taking, you know, credit for jobs lost after he left bain but taking credit for jobs created? >> no. here's the reality. private equity -- the purpose of private equity is to connect firms that need capital and expertise with investors and 70% of the clients of private equity are endowments, charitable foundations, pension funds, public and private, and together, private equity-backed firms produce or create, back 8 million jobs in this country. that's what private equity does. it returns an investment to the
investors and those investors in turn, they are invested in, creates jobs. we are talking about numbers, he should stop talking about numbers. he should just defend private equity and how it is a growth industry, grows jobs, creates jobs and contrast it with the obama policies which are creating growth at under 2%. that is not growth. private equity firms grow at 6% greater than their peer industries, so we should talk about the two concepts, private and public-backed operations. and that's what the campaign should be about, not how many numbers. >> but isn't it odd that he is taking credit for one thing that happened after he left bain but not taking responsibility for something else that happened after he left bain? >> yes, that's probably politically awkward but i'm going to say what i always say. >> okay. >> i would rather have a politically awkward candidate with good policies than a very cool politician that obama is, with horrific, proven failed policies. >> yeah, i would like to gamble
like mitt romney does. if i could just go to the craps table and get credit for the money i won and not have to pay the money i lost, i would be a rich man today. i like that accounting that he does. i just wish could i get steve wynn to set up the same way mitt romney does. >> you are saying, james, he is trying to have it both ways? >> of course he is, and he put it at issue. he started talking about central to his campaign, jobs he created at bain. maybe he created some, some got lost. well if you take credit for the ones that you create that were created while you were at bain or after you left bain, then you got to take the responsibility for the ones that you lost. and that's the way it is and that's nothing unfair about pointing that out. if he wants to point out the companies that succeeded, people to the companies that failed. >> which in other conversations, anderson, he has. because that's how the private free enterprise system works. you win some, you lose so you take a risk, you lose some. but the point is not to go out and vampire, as that commercial,
that ad is distorting what it's all about. and that's not -- this is not going to be what this campaign is about. it is going to be about how obama's policies have failed. we are not -- people don't care what mitt romney did in a contracting steel industry 20 years ago. they care what obama's not doing today to create jobs. >> james, is it. >> obama has created more jobs now -- >> sorry, james go ahead. >> the truth is he has created more private sector jobs than his predecessor created, romney was 47th out of 50th in job creation and that was after louisiana suffered hurricane katrina, which obviously we had massive job losses. so, romney's record is certainly nothing imminently fair to talk about -- want to talk about obama's job creation record as president, we can talk about his job creation record as governor of massachusetts. that is a totally fair thing to do and i'm sure they will do that. >> is it critical, james, of president obama to attack mitt romney on, you know, basically doing what private equity does,
which to mary's point is make money for the investors and sometimes creating jobs, sometimes cutting jobs, doing -- to attack him on that in those ads and then the same day that those ads are released, holding a big fund-raiser with private equity firm here in new york with blackstone? again, if romney would have said i made a lot of money for the people invested in me, that is a totally true thing. romney put it at issue by claiming that he created these jobs without -- without counting the jobs that they lost. again, it's the example of me at the craps table. i don't just get to count what i win, i got to count what i lose, too. it was romney's accounting that put this at issue. if he had said, look, i'm a terrific guy, i will return 23% to my investors and i know how to run a private equity company, obama might have trouble refuting that, but romney put it at issue by making central romney's claim that he only gets to count the jobs that he created, not the jobs that were lost. >> mary, it is true when you look at a private equity firm
perspective, if you're thinking about investing, they never talk about we're here to create jobs. they are there to make money for those who rip vesting in them, as you said. >> that is correct. and the obama strategy presumes massive ignorance on behalf of the voters. private equity invests in firms that need capital, they need expertise, who would otherwise go under, like he extended the life of that steel firm, by the way, by eight years. and after his initial investment, it was $1 billion company for a couple of years. it was -- went under by greedy unions, foreign competition, dumping in all the rest it also presumes ignorance of steel contraction, which people in swing states understand. so private equity, by investing in firms that create jobs, private equity creates jobs, the beginning of it is investors making returns on end product as jobs are created. if people are so -- if obama has to depend on people not making that connection and being that ignorant, well, then we're in big trouble.
but people aren't ignorant. they do understand that and they do understand obama's policies are not creating a growth. we had the lowest labor participation force in 30 years. >> we got to go, but james, private equity firms also make money by eliminating jobs? >> yeah, count me as somebody, my understanding is people invest in private equities because they want a return in their money, don't want to invest to create jobs. it may or may not create jobs in the process, but the purpose of the private equity firm is create money for the people who invest in it. that's my understanding. >> pension funds, endowments and charitable foundations, 670%. >> of course. they want a return on their money like everybody else. >> mary matalin, james carville, thank you very much. appreciate it. many americans traveled at great expense to india to a clinic that treats with embryonic stem cell therapy. is the clinic selling viable treatments or is this fraud? find out next. sarah... will you marry me?
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digging deeper tonight, a medical clinic in new delhi, india, uses experimental stem disorders and paralyzing spinal cord injuries. new tech meta world is run by a doctor who he treats patients around the world, including americans, charging thousands of dollars. she claims the procedures improve the quality of their life but has no clinical evidence to back the claim. none. the therapist used the clinic are banned in the united states. on sunday nights, cnn presents a documentary called "selling a miracle" a preview now from drew griffin of our investigations unit. >> reporter: lodging is not luxurious. closet-sized rooms, bathrooms down the hall. cash's dad and his grandfather will spend weeks in this small space. your critics, many who have
never been here. >> yes. >> say she is just getting rich. >> of course. let them say it. who doesn't want to get rich? who doesn't work for money? but you also have to work from the heart. you also have to see what you are doing. is it ethically right? and i believe that i'm doing everything right. >> reporter: according to shroff, and a sliding scale of success she drew up based on the treatment she offers, her results are phenomenal. >> as of right now, i would say almost everyone, let's say greater than 90% patients, have had success. >> reporter: we asked cnn's dr. sanjay gupta about dr. shroff's claims for success. >> we just don't see any data coming from labs, if it works if coming from labs. if it works, if you have proven it is safe, it is a pretty simple thing to publish and have it looked at by your own peers. >> this woman is either a miracle person in terms of embryonic stem cell research or a fraud.
>> it is concerning no matter how you look at it. you can inject cells that are not pure in some way and you can potentially cause harm. if it's working and she is doing it the right way, she should write it up. i mean, that's what scientists do, it is what we have been trained to do. >> reporter: in fact, dr. shroff said she tried to submit some scientific papers on her work. you have tried present this to the international society of stem cell research? >> yes. twice. >> reporter: they said don't even bother coming? >> no. i sent one presentation last year, 2010, or was it 2009? i'm just mixed up a bit and one in 2006, both the times they said no. you can't come. you can't accept -- you can't come and read your paper. >> they believe, in general, that you and others doing this are frauds. >> but if we are frauds, then come pull us down. i'm willing to come to your den and talk there. pull me down there if i'm a fraud.
>> you are not a fraud? >> i'm not a fraud. never a fraud. i refuse to be called that. >> so, drew, the doctor's convinced she is doing the right thing. is she? >> reporter: well, that's -- she never uses the word "cure," anderson, and she will only say she is improving these patients' lives based on her own scale that she came up with. there's no clinical studies, no scientific evidence that anything she is doing is any good, other than her patients love her and say she is doing good. what she is doing is providing hope, albeit perhaps temporarily, for these hopeless people who have come from all over the world to this clinic. >> did she allow you to visit her clinic? >> yeah, we were absolutely in that clinic. we were watching, anderson, daily, as these patients were given injections of something. she says they were embree -- embryonic stem cells. the patients really have no way to prove that. we had no way to prove that.
she has a lab that she says culterates these embryonic stem cells. we were not allowed to visit that lab. for all we know, they were injecting sugar water into these patients. >> all right, drew, griffin, appreciate it, "selling a miracle" is on 8 p.m. sunday night, eastern time. thanks. tonight, a video that a massachusetts school fought hard to suppress it is renewing calls to close the school. this is a former student strapped down and being shocked through electrodes, electroshocks, you can hear his screams, his mom calls it torture. the school calls it therapy for troubled kids. you will hear from both sides ahead.
tonight a "360" follow-up a new push to shutdown a controversial school we first reported on back in 2006, called the judge rotenberg center in canton, massachusetts. it is different from any other school in the country. you are going to see why in just a moment. now, its supporters say it is a refuge of last resort where young lives are saved but critics paint a much different picture. they call it a haven for torture where students are zapped with painful electrical shocks, like
cattle, they say. the school calls it aversive therapy for hard-to-control kids, kids with behavioral/developmental issues who haven't been helped by anything else, who other schools or centers won't take. now for the first time, a recently released video actually shows the outsiders what the shocks look like in one particular case. school officials fought hard to keep this video out of the public hands, from you -- to stop you from seeing it. we need to warn you though, it is very tough to watch. [ screaming ] >> ow. ow! [ crying ] ow! ow! help me! help me! help! help! [ screaming ] >> that is andre mccollins, a former student being shocked in 2002. the video was evidence in a
lawsuit his family recently settled. now, andre, who is autistic, received 31 shocks over seven hours on that particular day. you see him there he was strapped down. at one point, he is strapped down as he is being shocked. he was later treated for posttraumatic stress disorder. his family attorney says. now the founder and former head of the school, matthew israel, has long fought to keep videos like that one out of the public eye. prosecutors say that in 2007, he actually destroyed tapes related to a separate investigation. as part of a deal israel made with prosecutors, he stepped down from his post last year, he no longer runs the school. state officials have repeatedly tried and failed to shutdown the school. it might surprise you, but many parents whose children now attend the school, some are adults, passionately defend the shocks you just saw. you will hear from one of them in a moment. i want to show you one more thing. when randi kaye reported on this story back in 2006, she wanted to see for herself what the shocks feel like. take a look. >> reporter: a student can wear up to five electrodes strapped
to their arms and their legs. i strapped one to my arm just to see how powerful the shock is. it's delivered with remote control. [ screaming ] oh. oh, man! that hurts! >> the school compares the shocks to a bee sting. the thing is they never know what part of the body they are going to be shocked on the teachers control this you saw mccollins crying out in pain when he was being shocked. his mom, cheryl mccollins, is now leading a new drive to shut down the school. earlier i talked with her, along with greg miller who is a former teacher's aide at the judge rodenberg center. he has now turned against the school. also, the school's attorney, michael flamia and marie washington, whose son attends the school now. cheryl, you settled your lawsuit against this center but you continue to speak out, saying it should be closed down. you knew the center administered shocks before you sent your son there. they even shocked you when you enrolled your son to show you what it was like. so, prior to this videotaped incident, did the shocks actually work to control andre's
behavior? >> well, it's really hard to say that it controlled his behavior. he wasn't on it that long. i knew he was afraid of the device. >> greg, you were a teacher's assistant at the school for three years. you actually shocked students as part of your job. what criteria were used for shocking a student? was it a high bar before a student would be shocked? >> no. if you look at the student's behavior, if the student has, say, out of seat without permission, if rather the student is out of her seat to give you a hug or to stand up and ask -- raise your hand and ask to go to the bathroom or if the student -- any aren't -- any reason the student is out of their seat, it is still considered aggression and you shock them, period. there's no question about why they are out of their seat, you just shock them. >> so, greg, why did you stay so long? you were there three years, if you thought the program was abusive? >> well, i was led to believe, like many others, that this was the only thing that was going to
work for these students and that these students' behaviors so strong and severe that i was somehow saving their lives, and then i kept thinking about how many other ways that i could do something for them instead of shocking them. i kept seeing more bloody scabs all over students' bodies and i said, hey, you know this is wrong. so it was like a beginning really feeling like i was doing the right thing and in the end, realizing, hey, this is absolutely wrong. >> marie, you support the center. your son has been there since 1989. why do you believe these shocks are appropriate and necessary? >> well, it saved my son's life, because my son, when he was admitted to the center, he was the dangerous behaviors, attacking people. he knocked his father's teeth out. so, it was only two choices, it is the psychotropic medications or the ged, the treatment map we have at jrc and the treatment plan at jrc has worked -- is a
godsend for my son. >> but they are saying it feels like a bee sting. that is how people describe the shock. >> yes. yes. i have had it done to me. right. >> but 31 bee stings in the course of seven hours, that's a lot of shocks. >> yes. you could say that. yes. >> michael, the center, you're an attorney for the center, they fought for years in court to keep this tape and other tapes from being released. if the center stands by its methods, stand by this method, which is the only place that uses it, why try to prevent a court from seeing what's actually being done? >> no, jrc is the only school in the country that videotapes all of its treatment. and what jrc -- produced the videotape and the judge ruled that the videotape should remain confidential until the time of trial so that the jury can see all of the evidence at once. >> but you fought the release of these tapes and the head of your center actually destroyed tapes and had to resign to avoid being prosecuted for that in another case. >> that was one other occasion and that tape was shown to all of the state agencies that investigated the incident and it
was destroyed after he was informed that the investigations had concluded. >> we don't allow -- this country doesn't allow people in prison to be shocked if they are unruly. it doesn't allow people who have committed murders to be shocked if they are an unruly prisoner. why should the country -- why should any state allow severely autistic kids who can't communicate or severely disturbed people to be shocked? >> well this is a treatment that's been scientifically proven in scientific journals to be a very effective treatment and safe treatment for severe behavior disorders. we also don't pump prisoners up with 1,000 milligrams of thorazine or other psychotropic medications, we can't do that, either. >> i'm sorry, go -- >> i'm saying, that's what happens to these kids when no other treatment works and the treatment -- other treatment programs just give up on the kids and sedate them. >> but if this works so well, why is it the only place that is doing this? >> because -- for the same reason i'm here on your show today, because there's so few
people that have these severe behavior disorders, very few understand the needs of these people, and it's controversial and jrc is the only program that is courageous enough to use the treatment that works best and not give up on these people. >> greg? >> these shocks and torture is -- and drugs are both bad, for people can abuse both of them. for him to say that the shocks are -- if they are the only thing that works for them? no, there are plenty of other things you can do besides shocking them. a kid drinks out of a paper cup and finishes his water and then tears the paper cup, you have to shock the student for tearing that paper cup the same as if they tore something off the wall. it's not necessary. it is being abused. this is torture, that's what it is. >> anderson, for every student at that school, we have proven in a court of law that every other treatment was tried and it didn't work. >> michael, your critics say that students who received the most shocks are those who have autism, can't speak out to say the shocks don't -- to say the
shocks aren't effective or painful or they don't like them. how often do -- does a student get shocked in a week? >> it's about once a week. >> greg, is that your experience? >> that's not true. not at all. you have to look at the higher-functioning students and the lower-functioning students. he is not really telling you the truth at all, because the students with the autism, more severe, a student can have multiple shocks in a day. they might get four times out of their seat just to give you a hug, one student i'm thinking of, four times out of a seat to get up to give you a huff, and you have to shock him four times for that, so you can go -- they go often up to 20, and then that 20, after 20 shocks, they have to call the monitoring, the monitoring alerts -- you know, says go ahead, go to 30 and at 30 you stop. >> michael, i got to come back to just my question before which is if prisoners are not allowed to be shocked because they are unruly and murder other prisoners why is it okay to electrically shock a teenager or
an adult who can't communicate at all because they are unruly? >> well, you can't give a prisoner antipsychotic medication because they are unruly. this is a treatment, okay? it is a treatment like anti-psychotic medication. it is torture. >> like cancer. like cancer treatments. many of which are painful. the question is what is the best treatment? what's effective? what's gonna work? because let me tell you something, when these kids are pounding their head on the table -- >> but my sound did not pound his head on anyone. >> that is painful. >> i'm sorry, go ahead, cheryl. >> my son didn't pound on nine. my son didn't hit anyone. my son was sitting there. he was asked to take off his coat. he said no and he was shocked. he ran underneath the table to get away from these maniacs. they pulled him out, tied him up on a board for seven hours and shocked him 31 times for something as minor as not taking off his coat? this is inhumane beyond all reason. >> cheryl, how is your son now? what kind of treatment is he
getting now? >> he is on medication now. >> and how is he? >> he has never been the same. he has never been the same prior to coming to jrc. >> cheryl, to the lawyer's point, if your son was doing well in other programs, why put him in this program where you knew shocks could be administered? >> the only reason why i chose this program is because they had cameras, okay? that was the -- yes, they have cameras, they have cameras in every room. >> and you thought the cameras would what? >> i thought the cameras would protect him. >> well, there's no parent that has ever chosen jrc for cameras it is not why mrs. mccolin chose t. >> that is yes -- >> that is not true. >> yes, it is. >> guys, guys, please, just one at a time, because nobody can hear you when you talk over each other. >> my son did not have erratic behaviors, my son didn't bite, scratch, kick, knock down furniture. he didn't do those things. >> the day in question -- the day in question started with him attacking a staff person that very morning. >> attacking a staff person, i did not see him attack anyone.
he did not attack anyone. that's the point. the point is this is what they do. >> the point is, anderson, you have to -- >> let cheryl finish, then marie, you can join in. >> okay. >> the point is they torture disabled children. exactly what you see on the video is exactly what they do. >> that is not true. >> the crazy part of all of this is that it is true. >> that is not true. >> they don't deny what they do as you see my son getting shocked, running underneath the table, trying to get away from them, they pull him out and tie him up on a board for seven hours and shock him 31 times. he never hit anyone. he didn't curse. he was screaming. and crying for them to stop. >> michael, how controlled are -- are these shocks administered? because it does seem that if you have teachers or assistants who are authorized to shock kids that can very easily lead to abuse. >> right. and that's why it doesn't happen that way. the clinicians have to get the treatment plans approved by the court. the treatment plans have specific behaviors and only those behaviors that can be treated, the behavior are chosen based on how dangerous they are
and how they lead to dangerous behavior. >> is it true what greg says, though, in your opinion, that if a student stands up out of the seat to go to the bathroom and it is not authorized -- >> is absurd. as you pointed out, anderson, he worked there three years, never made a complaint, signed statements he never saw any abusive treatment. it is just utter lies. >> but we see it on the video of my son not taking off his coat and being shocked 31 times as a result. >> again that day -- that day started with -- >> i think people can watch the video now and see the truth for themselves. i think people can watch the nice things that people can now watch on the video, see for themselves what happened to andre, the school saying things that it's not true, it's like a bee sting, but people can see for the first time, go to change.org and see what the video -- for themselves what happened to andre. this is the first time that people are permitted to see for themselves. >> anderson, come by the school any time unannounced. we would be happy to show you around the school. you can see it for yourself.
>> michael, appreciate it, marie as well, cheryl and greg, it is a difficult topic for you. i appreciate you discussing it. thank you. >> thank you. continue to follow it. authorities say they found the man responsible for two murders on mississippi highways. details ahead of how police tracked down the suspect. so how much do we owe you? that'll be $973.42. ya know, your rates and fees aren't exactly competitive. who do you think i am, quicken loans? [ spokesman ] when you refinance your mortgage with quicken loans, you'll find that our rates and fees are extremely competitive. because the last thing you want is to spend too much on your mortgage. one more way quicken loans is engineered to amaze. ♪
phone of her husband and suspected killer to the texas-mexico border. he told authorities he was going to mexico where his parents live. mississippi officers believe they caught the man who was accused of gunning down a man on the highway. the edwards jury trial ended today without reaching a verdict. they will reconvene on monday. the facebook ipo fell apart, you could say. they ended the day near the offering price just over $38. still, the biggest ipo in history raised $16 billion. we'll be right back.