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tv   CNN Newsroom  CNN  May 15, 2013 11:00am-1:01pm PDT

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reporting live in phoenix for special coverage of a blockbuster day involving courtroom drama and -- it is all happening at this very moment. first, the jodi arias trial. she's in court for a mini trial of sorts. this is the first part of her sentencing phase in her criminal trial. it will decide whether she gets life in prison or death. in washington, eric holder is being grilled on a couple of scandals that are rocking the obama administration right now. we're going to begin in las vegas where america's most famous defendant officially speaks. o.j. simpson taking the stand. and o.j. appears wearing prison blues with his feet shackled and originally his hands shackled, but his right hand freed. he's testified now for nearly two hours in his effort to win a brand-new robbery and kidnapping trial. remember, he did not take the
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stand at his double murder trial. he did not take the stand at the original robbery and kidnapping trial that landed him here. but here he is right now and he's decided to speak under oath, officially. so far he has told the court that he was reluctant at first to try to recover personal items that he learned some memorabilia dealers were selling. they were his items, he said. he changed his mind, though. he said when he learned the items included family photos and photo albums, including one that had belonged to his mother. he said he agreed to a plan to recover those goods during a trip to las vegas. he says he rounded up a recovery team after he got there, and that he took, quote, big guys because he didn't want any trouble. let's listen to o.j. simpson, in his own words, as he is questioned by his friendly own attorney patricia palm.
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>> until the time you are in the room, was there any discussion between you and mr. mcclinton or mr. alexander about using any guns? >> no. >> about showing any guns? >> no. certainly not. walter, i would never even fathom he would have a gun. >> you didn't ask them? >> no. >> hey, show them your piece, your gun, when you get in there? >> no. >> okay. and did you have any weapon discussion with anybody else prior to entering the room? >> no. >> all right. so you're in the room and you see your items on the bed. what happens next? >> well, when first walked in, it was packed, like. but the only opening that i could see is -- as i kind of work my way by these two guys is i could see in the bathroom there was a lot of stuff and i could see the bed. almost immediately. and i turned and said don't let
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anybody out of here. and i walked in, and i was kind of stunned because i was looking at stuff that i hadn't seen in ten years. >> okay. when you're saying you heard on the audiotape, you saying repeatedly, don't let anybody out of here. >> yes. >> why are you saying that? >> because these guys are in here with my stuff, i don't want them to leave because they don't volunteer it to me, i want them arrested, and when i said these guys, i wasn't talking about those two guys, i was a little concerned with -- i didn't know cash more and i didn't really trust walter. >> so you're saying don't let anybody out here. you're looking at your stuff? >> yeah, i'm looking and i'm -- it's, you know, i'm inhaling, look at this stuff. some of this stuff i obviously didn't even know it was gun, i
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had forgotten about. so i -- >> like what, for instance? >> a certificate. for all i knew, i had it framed, bob hope had given it to me, you know. and j. edgar hoover, these are things that, you know, you live with them in your house on the wall, you forget them. you don't see them. it is wallpaper. these are things i hadn't seen in ten years and i was a little emotional about it. >> we have been waiting five years for that. o.j. simpson on a witness stand talking under oath. publicly. maybe not about the things some people want to hear about, but cnn's paul vercammen has been in the courtroom, watching the proceedings. so the discussion is all about his former lawyer, and what he thinks his former lawyer, yale galanter, did and didn't do in his defense. how much of a case has he been making? has he been answering specifically to the fact that he says he was done wrong and needs
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to be -- at least retried if not sprung altogether? >> well, they are building up to all of that, ashleigh. they're laying the ground work for a couple of different arguments that are all part of these 19 claims that o.j. simpson got in effective representation in that 2008 trial. estaish that o.j. simpson had to been drinking and perhaps his vision would have been so clouded that he could have no idea that there were guns in that courtroom. ashleigh, they also hit upon this point, which you heard in that sound bite you played, that o.j. said he was totally unaware that any members of his posse were going to enter that courtroom with guns. and he also hit upon another issue and that is he says galanter had been advising him that there had been five or six conversations about o.j.'s will to try to recover the memorabilia and the heirlooms he believed were his. let's go ahead and take a listen if we can, please. >> that if you were walking down
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the street and you saw your laptop with your name on it, in a car, you can use the force to break the window of the car to get the laptop. >> did that plan ever involve a discussion of using any weapons? >> there were no weapons. weapons was never an issue in this thing. >> okay. >> so you never told mr. galanter, i planned to use weapons -- >> no. no way. >> didn't come up? >> no. >> reporter: i misspoke, i said guns in the courtroom, i meant that very cramped palace station hotel room, that room that included nine separate men, heatedly arguing inside it at the time of this raid, ashleigh. >> all right, paul vercammen, watching this proceeding for us. we have been waiting a long time for this, paul vercammen. waiting a long time to hear o.j. simpson speak. he's been quiet and probably very bored in that vegas jail cell. thank you for that. paul vercammen.
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i want to switch to the other proceedings we're following live. it is an extremely busy today on the legal front. because jodi arias, her case is back up and running. and, in fact, now we're looking at penalty phase. it is a sentencing phase broken into two distinct areas. she was guilty, she was found guilty of shooting her ex-boyfriend, travis alexander, and stabbing him 27 times as well as slitting his throat and not just a little, a lot, ear to ear. and now the jury has one more very big decision to make. actually two. first they got to decide how cruel that killing was. how cruel arias was. her actions when she did this on june 4th of 2008. this is what you call the aggravation part of the sentencing phase. and you're watching it transpire live right now in phoenix, arizona. in the last hour, miss arias began to cry. this was as the prosecutor juan martinez began explaining the kind of pain and suffering that
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travis alexander was enduring as arias stabbed him over and over again. >> as he sat there, the defendant, took a knife, a knife she brought, and she took this knife and she stabbed him in the chest area. there were three strikes that she delivered as she, according to her testimony, was squatted down. that is painfulfully clely cleay the standard that was laid out for us. during that first portion of the attack, mr. alexander suffered excruciating pain. one of those cuts or one of those stab wounds went into his heart. and it is something akin to a heart attack. first he began to lose blood, experienced shortness of breath, and then the chest starts to tighten. so in addition to the initial, if you will, stab wound, when the nerve endings are cut and he
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felt that pain, he was also beginning to feel the pain of his heart running out of blood as the blood kept seeping out. >> this is intentional, folks. this is supposed to be ugly these details. we'll take you back live now into that hearing. that is jodi's defense attorney. painful details, yes, especially for her family, and also the victims' family. they're all in there. they're having to listen to all of this and go through it all again. they're vital details because this jury needs to decide before they can any farther along in this process if what arias did was, quote, especially cruel. that is the law in this state. they have to decide if those actions were cruel, then they can move on to the next phase. and then they can determine whether she's worth saving, determine whether there is anything to mitigate, just how awful all of this has been and whether she is a life worth saving. i want to go now to some of the better legal minds to determine
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just exactly where we are and where this may be going. for our analysis, hln's legal analyst joey jackson is standing by live as well as criminal defense attorney and former colleague of mine, jami floyd. jamie, first to you, tears, you've been a defense attorney. you've worked with your clients and i know that you do counsel them in how they are to behave in the courtroom. but are the tears at this point in a process this dire effective? >> well, you know, we always hear that phrase crocodile tears. and a jury is no different than the rest of the public when assessing your client's demeanor. if she can't help herself, she can't help herself. i don't think they're effective. i think the jury will do the job it has to do. you point out whether or not this jury feels this killing was particularly cruel, heinous, or depraved. did the victim suffer undually in a case that should be a death penalty case. that's the question for the jury. and jurors don't think
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clinically like lawyers. they think like brothers, sisters, husbands, wives, mothers, fathers. that's the problem for this defense attorney we see addressing the jury now. >> and so strangely in phoenix, i know jami, every jurisdiction say little bit different. this judge strangely enough took the heinous and depraved out and just by statute suggested only cruel applies to this question. so at least it is a little bit easier, maybe, for this jury to determine it. but joey jackson, how are these human beings that jamie just outlined supposed to think anything but dieing in this manner with blood all over your bathroom and, you know, expressive blood into a mirror where you can see yourself dying, how are they to think anything but extremely and atrociously cruel? >> ashleigh, it is a wonderful point. i have to say i couldn't agree with jami any more as she laid it out because i think the jury is processing it that way.
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and not only, ashleigh, remember, are they evaluating it in the context of the stab wounds and the pain and the suffering and the gunshot, but they're also evaluating it in the context of what she, jodi arias, had to say when she testified and the fact she took no responsibility, the fact she trashed the victim, now certainly this hearing is limited to the issue of cruelty, but when the jury evaluates that, they're going to be looking at what they heard from a defendant who took no responsibility. we saw an opening statement from curt nurmi, he tried to define the law and said it is not cruel you're looking at, it is unusually cruel, depraved. i think under the circumstances with the doctor testifying, with the blood all over the place, it is going to be a very tough day, certainly for the defense to try to establish that and we know most of all, ashleigh, it is a horrible day for that family as they sit in that courtroom, having to listen to this. >> oh, without question. we keep seeing these shots of the gallery and the victim's sister, front and center.
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often with an expression on her face. she sat through four months through this to culminate in the focus on the ugliest part of this crime. joey jackson and jami stand by. thank you for that. don't forget to catch joey on hln's after dark at 10:00 p.m. eastern time, a great program for you to catch up if you haven't had a chance to see everything that transpired live moment to moment in court. we're monitoring all the testimony going on right now. not only in the jodi arias case, but also in the o.j. simpson case. we're going to bring you live updates over the next two hours. the highlights from what mr. simpson says he deserves to get and why. and also up next, stunning new developments in the kidnapping case in cleveland, ohio, the house of horrors. sources are now telling us that ariel castro allegedly played favorites with his captives. one of them, however, was his, quote, punching bag.
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seriously, a quote, a punching bag. plus, even though castro has apparently confessed to the police, his lawyer says he didn't tell me that. in fact, he's going to plead not guilty. stay right here. we're going to explain all of this and tell you why they're saying what they're saying and what they're saying comes next. h plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+.
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want to take you to cleveland now. how do you defend a man who is accused of some of the worst crimes, kidnapping, raping, beating, starving, and imprisoning three women for a decade. there is video now of ariel castro's attorneys being grilled, being questioned about what they plan to do and giving the best indication yet of one of the ways they plan to defend this man in court and it is blame the media. >> i think that the initial portrayal by the media has been one of a, quote, monster, and that's not the impression that i got when i talked to him for
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three hours. he is a human being. and what's offensive is that the media and i don't mean it towards you, but the media and the community wants to demonize this man before they really know the whole story. and i think it is unfair and just not equitable. >> that is often the case the media can be blamed for some things for sure, but the video tells the story of police breaking down a door, and rescuing two young women who had been missing for ten years. a third rescued by another member of the public, that is indisputable. those three women were missing. they were found in his home. and his own family has decried him, has disowned him, and has called him a monster. his own family, through the media. cnn's pamela braun now live with me in cleveland. look, every attorney has a good reason to recommend their client
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pleads not guilty. in this particular case, i don't deny this is a viable way to proceed, but how -- why would they go out publicly in the press and go further to suggest all of these other things, that he's been misrepresented, that he loves his daughter, that he wants to see her grow up healthy and happy, why are these lawyers doing what they're doing, pam? >> reporter: that is the big question today, ashleigh. basically his attorneys are trying to mount the best defense possible and for whatever reason, they believe coming out to the media and saying that castro will plead not guilty if he faces kidnapping and rape charges, and a grand jury indictment, is the best way to build their case and to mount their defense. his attorneys, as you heard in the sound there, are saying essentially that he's been unfairly portrayed in the media, and asking people not to rush to
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judgment, that he i and they also, you know, they talked about not only how he's been depicted, but that he hasn't admitted anything to them about his actions the past ten years we have been hearing about. but, ashleigh, you have to think about where they're coming from, and the professional obligation they have to their client, and also weigh that against what we have heard, what we have been reporting, what our affiliates have been reporting, that ariel castro has confessed to at least some of his actions. but no doubt about it, ashleigh, a lot of people were surprised to hear his attorney speak out and say he's going to plead not guilty. >> and maybe i'm not surprised to hear the initial plea will be not guilty, but i am surprised to hear this additional defense in the press that he's no monster, after, like i said, those three women were in that house and rescued. there is no disputing that. it is on video. and the police released that video.
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the police are also in dribs and drabs and investigators, police sources, telling us some of the details about what these young women went through. and how their ordeal changed over the years. what have your sources been telling you, pam? >> reporter: that's right. you mentioned the evidence. we know they brought out around 200 pieces of evidence from his home here on seymour avenue and in addition to all that, we're learning from sources about how castro allegedly treated the women over the years. we're hearing from sources that his behavior evolved and that he treated the women differently. that amanda berry was treated slightly better than the rest. and that michelle knight was treated the worst. want to make it clear here that it is a bit of a jump to say there was a hierarchy at play. all these women were treated poorly according to sources. so just want to be careful there. and the treatment was nuanced, it wasn't dramatic difference in the way they were treated, but it is clear in talking to
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sources amanda berry was a slightly favored. of course, she had his child, the little 6-year-old girl that we have been talking about. so we don't know if that perhaps played a role here. also, ashleigh, we're learning that as far as michelle knight go, a source is telling us that she was his personal punching bag. that he was -- she was his main target and that he would beat her in every way possible and he would beat her with hand weights at times. that's according to a family friend of one of the victims i spoke with. we have also heard that michelle knight suffered vision loss, muscle and joint damage during her years in captivity. it is clear, ashleigh, all of these women went through a significant ordeal the past ten years and have a long road of recovery ahead of them. >> you know what, pam, it is also just obvious and clear the words of one of those victims herself, when amanda escaped that home, the words to the 911 operator were i've been kidnapped, for ten years, and
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now i'm free. and i'm afraid, come now, because he's going to come home. she said his name to the 911 operators in the midst of that rescue. so it will be fascinating, pamela, to hear how these attorneys -- this is an uphill battle like none perhaps i've ever seen before. pam brown, thank you for your reporting. and she's been doing an excellent job getting some information and knocking down some bad information, i will say, as well. i want to turn your attention to washington, because it is safe to say the obama administration has had a terrible week, and it is only getting worse today. right now, eric holder is getting grilled on capitol hill. attorney general having to face questions over some very serious scandals, a pair of them to be specific. but get this, a source is now telling cnn when it comes to the irs, there were two rogue employees involved in that controversy. the information just coming into us. we'll get it to you next. 't go .
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we have some breaking news into cnn on the irs scandal that is unfolding this week, a source
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is telling cnn that the irs has actually been able to narrow down its investigation to two people at this point. and two people who are not in washington, d.c. either. and this is coming from the top, in fact. this is coming from the acting commissioner of the irs. he's using some pretty strong words like overly aggressive and rogue. our cnn's drew griffin has broken this news and joins me live now. what exactly is this all about and how are we going from washington, d.c. to cincinnati, take me through this, drew. >> reporter: well let's set the stage what cincinnati is about. the irs office in cincinnati is not just for cincinnati. that's the office that handles tax exempt status for everybody in the country. so if your group wanted to file for tax exempt status, you would send all your paperwork and applications to this office in cincinnati. tea party groups did that for the past two years. and many have complained that they haven't gotten that status
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that they were being overly questioned by the irs, that the records were gone through somewhat abnormally. now the irs acting commissioner, according to professional source, has told congressional investigators that he has pin pointed -- as you said, two rogue employees, that was the word that the commissioner used in this briefing, who overly aggressively handled tea party requests for tax exempt status over the past two years. in a meeting in capitol hill, this acting commissioner, steven miller, described the employees as being -- here is another quote -- off the reservation, and not precisely clear what the rogue behavior was. we know from another source who is familiar with the acting commissioner's conversations up on capitol hill that those two staffers have been disciplined, and the second source said miller emphasized the problem was not just limited to these two employees, though they seemed to be very important people. it is that other employees may
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be involved, but they have pinpointed these two employees. we do know that miller met with the senate finance chairman, that's max baucus, and max baucus is trying to get the commissioner into a hearing. we have reached out to the irs, ashleigh, we haven't got any comment back yet. we will as soon as we do pass it along to you. right now, a lot of attention being focused on what exactly this means. is it just these two guys involved in a cincinnati office, or as the republicans think, there may be many, many more people involved, and it may reach back to washington, d.c. ashleigh? >> that's great work, drew. good scoop. wow. and wow even more, because when you talk about discipline, that may be the next step. drew griffin, get back to us if you will if you get more on that. that's terrific. eric holder is ordering an fbi investigation to determine whether the irs employees broke any criminal laws. just heard drew talk about the
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discipline. what about the potential crime? let's bring in chief congressional correspondent dana bash on capitol hill. a lot of outrage that seems to be crossing party lines in congress right now. it is all fun and games to hate the irs. this is serious. and we're talking about crimes, who is crying loudest about crimes at this point? >> republicans are crying the loudest, but most importantly the attorney general who, of course, works for a democrat, and is a democrat, eric holder, is making very clear just like he did yesterday that he wants to investigate this as wherever it goes for any criminal wrongdoing. in fact, he's explicitly said he is going to take the facts wherever they take us. and it will not just be in one city, cincinnati as drew was talking about, but also washington and anywhere else. in fact, he said that the investigation will be centered in washington, d.c. so they can have kind of a national blanket on this, national look at this whole thing. here is also what he told democratic congressman bobby scott about how he thinks crimes
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may have been committed. >> are there any gaps in the criminal code that would make it difficult for you to pursue criminal sanctions if you found that irs agents were denying benefits under the internal revenue code based on politics? >> that actually is a good question and i'm not sure what the answer is. i think the provisions that you have noted are ones that we are looking at. civil rights provisions, irs provisions, potentially the hatch act. and i think we're going to have to get into the investigation before i can answer that question more intelligently. to the extent that there are enforcement gaps that we find, we will let this committee know and hopefully work with this committee to make sure that what happened and was outrageous as i've said, and hope -- if we have to bring criminal actions so that that kind of action that kind of activity does not happen again. >> just to translate here, the hatch act prohibits civil
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servants, federal employees, from any political activities. that will be one way that these officials may have broken the law. but he said something else later that suggested they're going to take this to the top. and that is that, you know, they're going to look into whether or not there were any false information was given to congress or anybody else. people who talk to congress are pretty high up. so that is certainly what in a bipartisan way members of congress are not happy about, they have been looking at this for years and were not given proper information. so the fact that eric holder just said that that might be another avenue for them to pursue criminally, i should have people close to the top of the irs pretty worried. >> i think i heard joe johns speaking earlier about the potential of false statements being an issue and also civil rights violations, so i think we have a tough road to hoe here. great work. thank you for that. up next, first o.j. simpson taking the stand, trying to convince a judge that he was
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hard done by and deserves a brand-new trial in las vegas. and then jodi arias listening to the first part of the sentencing phase against her. it is going to decide whether she lives or dies and it doesn't get more serious than that in any courtroom. we have got live reports on both cases coming up next. it's just . but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision,
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or be an engineer, helping walmart conserve energy. even today, when our store does well, i earn quarterly bonuses. when people look at me, i hope they see someone working their way up. vo: opportunity, that's the real walmart. welcome back. i'm ashleigh banfield reporting live in phoenix, arizona. on the left-hand side of your screen in maricopa county, superior courthouse, jodi arias with her head turned to the right, avoiding all of the sounds coming from closing arguments from the prosecutor in her sentencing phase. phase one, the aggravating phase, wrapping up now. believe it or not, one witness, it was quick. the medical examiner outlining how horrible the death of her murder victim was, the jury needs to deliberate.
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that clock could start soon. deliberate whether what she did was officially cruel by law. if they say yes, we move to phase two, whether she's worth saving. there you have it. there is juan martinez wrapping up his closings now. on the right-hand side of your screen, o.j. simpson in prison blues and shackles. his legs shackled even as he shuffles to the witness stand. after years and years of silence, o.j. simpson takes the stand to beg for a new trial saying he was thrown under the bus by his own criminal defense attorney. not unusual for criminal defense attorneys to hear it, they heard it before. jamie weintraub is a criminal defense attorney and in phoenix, former prosecutor monica lindhstrom. we call it in this business the hail mary pass. and it zntd wodoesn't work oftey i had a bad lawyer, i deserve another deal, another shake at this. in o.j.'s case, do you see if he
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has merit? >> i don't see this case as one of sour grapes that you were just talking about. and neither does the judge. the judge thinks this is significant enough to grant an evidentiary hearing. that alone is a very high threshold to meet. so she must believe that there is some credibility and some substance to the claim. remember there are two issues here. one, was he ineffective, did he render wrong on the law advice, not just strategic advice, was he wrong, make a mistake. that's one. here -- and did very a significant impact on the outcome, which if he had a conflict of interest, he would have. there are two issues. did yale galanter relay the plea offer properly to his client and explain to him the ramifications and consequences of taking that plea. and the second is whether or not yale galanter had a conflict of interest. o.j. simpson claims now as part of his ineffective assistance petition that yale galanter spoke with him the day before, counseled him about how he could
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retrieve the property, and in fact said just don't have -- don't do any violence or don't be rough or something to that effect. the fact is that chris owens, one of the prosecutors, testified in this hearing that he found ten phone calls between yale galanter and o.j. simpson the day before this incident. we haven't heard from yale galanter. we'll hear from him on friday. >> that's coming up. that's coming up. i'm sure he'll have a lot to say. you watch o.j. simpson on the stand in the prison jump suit, you have probably been used to seeing him in a suit in the courtroom. that's because there is no jury in this courtroom. this is a bench proceeding. he is talking to the judge. he needs the judge to agree with him. there is no jury, so it is not prejudicial to be seeing him in a prison jump suit with leg shackles and you probably saw with left and right arm shackles as well. earlier in the day we were told his right hand was released so he could write down what he needed to write down or use his right hand to drink water. on the stand i can't see as he
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came back from a brief recess whether they released his right hand again, but that's the way it is, folks. when you are a convict and you go into a courtroom, you don't always get to be treated like the rest of the public. that's the way it is. you're shackled during your testimony. to you, very quickly, monica, that whole issue right now that he's talking to the judge, does o.j. simpson do himself any favors by opening up and getting up on to that witness stand because he can't use charm on a judge. it doesn't work. you use charm on a jury. you don't use charm on a judge. >> well, ashleigh, really has no choice at all. he's talking about conversations he had with his own attorney, and nobody else was around. so if he wants to convince this judge that this is what i said to my attorney and my attorney told me it was okay, or my attorney didn't tell me about a plea agreement or my attorney did or didn't do this or that, he has to take the stand and he has to explain why he believes
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that, what really happened between the two, because there was nobody else there. so he has no choice, but to testify. is he doing himself a favor? absolutely because he's the only one that can show the judge and tell the judge this is what happened. again, he had no choice, he had to do this. >> no matter what. it is fascinating when the juice talks and people do listen, because he has refused to talk so many times before. not all the time, he's actually spoken under oath in a criminal trial in florida in 2001 and civil trial when he was dinged with a $33 million judgment for wrongful death, but never spoken in the other two criminal proceedings against him. all right, you two, thank you very much. monica and jamie. up next, i want to switch gears slightly for a moment. some really rocking news. look, hollywood may be hollywood. but when someone with the star power of angelina jolie goes public about having a double mastectomy in order to save her life, so that her children can
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have a mother, it makes big news and now we are learning that this actress has gone even further. she's reportedly decided to have her ovaries removed as well. it is a massive decision for any woman, let alone a woman who is in the public eye. i'm going to speak with another woman, not in the public eye, but whose gone through both decisions and said children, it is all about your children.
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star power of angelina jolie. you're looking at video shot of her just after she completed three long months of tests and surgeries and ultimately the complete removal of both of her breasts, a double mastectomy. and now we are hearing jolie's powerful preemptive strike
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against a cancer diagnosis is not over yet. here is what she wrote in her new york times op-ed piece. she said, my doctors estimated that i had an 87% risk of breast cancer and a 50% risk of ovarian cancer. i started with the breasts as my risk of breast cancer is higher than my risk of ovarian cancer. and the surgery is more complex. again, she says started with the breasts. she has also talked about losing her mother to ovarian cancer, so it certainly left the question hanging in the air, would she continue with these surgeries and have her ovaries removed as well. and, today, people magazine is reporting that answer is apparently yes. cnn's elizabeth cohen, our senior medical correspondent, joins me live now in atlanta, and also a woman who can relate better than most to what angelina jolie is going through, victoria flynn. victoria, you have gone through
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this, you have the brca gene, you had both your breasts and ovaries removed. so many people want to know when you learn of all of this overwhelming information, is it a no brainer just to make that decision to have both your breasts and ovaries removed or does this take you a very long time of soul searching. >> for me, it was a no brainer. but i think it is important to know that relates to my personal story and because for years prior to that, for 20 or so years prior to me making that decision, i had lived without my mother, who had died when i was 13 years old from breast cancer at the age of 39. so you live through 20 years or so of your life without your mother, and you almost think there is this time bomb ticking that -- and you ask yourself, am i going to live to 39? when the genetic counselors came to me with this information and my sister as well, and with
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this -- these risks, the decision was a no brainer. i was at that point -- i was a mother of two young girls, and the day before i was about to have -- i was going to have a mastectomy and my ovaries removed at the same time, i found out i was pregnant with my third little girl, i had to delay it a little bit. but it was a no brainer. i had to be here for my children. i had to give myself the best chances, the opportunity to live a long life. and so i, for me, it was a no brainer. but it does -- but i had something like 20 years or so to think about my options. >> just seeing pictures of your kids. they're just gorgeous, just adorable and gorgeous. i just had to point that out. listen, the doctors, victoria, are saying and i want to ask you about this, elizabeth, as well, the doctors are saying they're expecting an alarming number of women who may now come out in droves for this drastic surgery because there has been so much press coverage of what jolie did. and the kind of decision you had to make. you are very careful to say this
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was great for me, this was right for me. how right is this going to be for a lot of women who get bad news? >> well, they're going to have to talk with their families and figure out what works for them. i was fortunate. i have a very supportive husband, who was very concerned as well. it was funny it was his mother who had a breast cancer scare for herself, before we had met. but in my late 20s, she had advised me to go to sloan-kettering, they had an early intervention program there, and i used to go every six months to get tested and screened for breast cancer because it was pretty obvious that there was a marker somewhere in my family, i had to be on top of it. so it starts with having a supportive network and sometimes it depends if those people are going to be around you. and i did, i have a supportive friendships in town, a lot -- there is a group called the nutley thriving survivors where
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i'm from, they were supportive. so that kind of allowed me to make the decision easier. i did run up against people who questioned my decision, which i found to be odd, but there are women that are -- that might be questioned and might think about it. but it is a decision you have to make for yourself, you have to talk to your doctors, you have to talk to your family and come to your own conclusion. >> and, elizabeth, i know you covered so many of these kinds of stories and these kinds of cases and angelina's case, she's quoted as saying, my chances of developing breast cancer have dropped from 87% to under 5%. i mean, that is just a remarkable improvement in the numbers. but, elizabeth, do you -- can anybody expect the same kind of reduction and risk after the ovarian surgery? is it as dramatic? >> right, so in that new york times piece, ashleigh, she says that keeping her ovaries, she has a 50% chance sometime in her lifetime of developing ovarian cancer. it is not as high as breast
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cancer, but that's still high. imagine being told, you have a 50/50 chance of getting ovarian cancer, that's high. that's why doctors routinely tell women with this mutation of the breast cancer gene, you know what, finish having your babies and then let's take the ovaries out and let's do it by your 40th birthd birthday. it didn't bring your risk of ovarian cancer down to zero, because some ovarian tissue may be left, but it brings it down very, very low. >> we wish angelina jolie well and victoria flynn, really good to talk to you. i'm glad you're with us and your kids, like i said, are adorable and really -- >> thank you. thank you for sharing this story. >> thanks, victoria. thank you, elizabeth. good to see you both. as we move along in this program, a 12-year-old boy has been accused of killing his own sister and he's scheduled to go into a courtroom, 12. 12 years old. police are tight lipped to what led them to the arrest, but perhaps more information is to come. back after this.
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i'm ashleigh banfield live in phoenix. due in court this hour, a 12-year-old boy accused of a horrible crime that shook a small town to its very core. a stabbing death of his little sister. her name, 8-year-old leila foul, stabbed repeatedly at her own home, the family home in calaveras county, california back on april 27th. initially her brother said that police -- said to police a man
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had broken in while the two were home alone. well, now, his lawyer says that boy is being arraigned in a juvenile courtroom, this hour. the charge, second degree murder. the court appearance could bring the first look that anyone, even his own lawyer, has had at any evidence that the police have against this young boy. 12 years old. and coming up next, news just in to cnn, we're getting word that the fbi has uncovered a terror plot, a plot involving yet again jihad, but this time stolen guns and a teenager who wanted to commit mass murder. the details coming at you next.
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just in to cnn, the fbi has uncovered a bizarre plot involving jihad, stolen guns, and money from robberies that were designed to leave not a single witness behind. 19-year-old irwin rios of fayetteville, north carolina, allegedly tried to buy a stolen gun to rob people. the fbi is saying that rios intended to kill every single witness and use the money to travel overseas to wage jihad against american troops, and people that he thoughtn nonbelievers of islam.
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he pleaded guilty yesterday, but just to the possession of stolen firearm. it remains to be seen how the rest of the allegations will be adjudicated against him. we're back right after this. of back pain... e and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪ [ male announcer ] that's handy. i i had pain in my abdomen...g. it just wouldn't go away. i was spotting, but i had already gone through menopause. these symptoms may be nothing... but they could be early warning signs of a gynecologic cancer, such as cervical, ovarian, or uterine cancer. feeling bloated for no reason. that's what i remember. seeing my doctor probably saved my life. warning signs are not the same for everyone. if you think something's wrong... see your doctor. ask about gynecologic cancer. and get the inside knowledge. ♪
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alexander or whether she will be put to death. wa washington, d.c., eric holder is being grilled on a pair of scandals rocking the obama administration right now. we're going to start right away in las vegas, where america's most famous defendant, you could call him, the bottom of your screen, takes the stand. o.j. simpson in prison blues, feet shackled, hands shackled to his waist, walking into court and prepping for testimony. taking the stand and talking. it is all because he wants to win a brand-new trial in that robbery and kidnapping conviction. he did not take the stand at the double murder trial that he went through 20 years ago or so, give or take a year. he did not take the stand at the robbery and kidnapping trial that landed him here in the first place, but, today, as the marshals get him up on the stand, and actually unlock his right hand so he can write and
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drink water, takes the stand and tells it to the judge. cnn's george howell has been in the courtroom, he's covering this case. so where do they stant right now. i know o.j. has been talking for a while. how far into his story and his plea to this judge to get a new trial, to throw his lawyer under the bus, because he says that's why he deserves a new trial, how far into it is he, george? >> reporter: ashleigh, look, we have been monitoring these details and there are a lot of details that o.j. simpson is laying out here. a lot of ground work we're hearing. again, o.j. simpson explaining the details of confronting these two sports memorabilia dealers before the -- the night before it happened, the day that it happened, and then the aftermath of that. but, ashleigh, the issue, the real issue is this, the first question, did o.j. simpson's then attorney, yale galanter, he did give him bad legal advice? simpson says, yes, that happened the day before the confrontation, before the confrontation, simpson says he talked to his attorney and the attorney told him that as long
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as there was no trespassing involved, as long as he didn't use force, it would be okay for simpson to confront these two men. we isolated a couple of sound bites from this long day of testimony, just take a listen to this. >> had the plan at that point -- was there any use of force discussed? >> no. >> that's what i'm asking you. what was his advice to you regarding the -- >> if they didn't give me the stuff, i would have to call the police. and that's what i told everybody involved, that if they don't give it to me, i'm going to get the police in there. >> okay. did you have any understanding whether you could detain people? >> no, until the police came. >> okay. was there any talk at that point, hey, these guys don't have any guns? >> there was no talk about guns at all. >> you heard this testimony that he came up and told mr. ehrlich there were no guns?
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>> no. i don't recall that. >> okay. >> i wasn't there, if he told him when he first told him, but i don't recall that. >> you never heard that -- don't have any weapons? >> no. >> and there hadn't been any weapon discussion at that point? >> no. i wouldn't fathom in my wildest dreams that these guys would have guns. mike gilbert or riccio or any of those guys. well, not riccio, but i knew mike and i knew bruce. >> okay. so were you expecting any trouble? >> no. >> okay. >> reporter: so simpson said in court, basically going through the details saying he was in vegas for a wedding, he did admit there was a lot of drinking before the wedding. there was a lot of waiting before this plan that he had, but all along, he says he never knew -- never asked for anyone to bring guns, did not think guns would be involved. and, ashleigh, the other point i want to make, simpson claims his
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attorney did not tell him during the trial about a possible plea deal that could have given him two years instead of what he has now, he indicated obviously that's what he would rather have taken, so, you know, we're listening to all the details and hearing those two main points that simpson wants to make to try to get a new trial. >> i know a lot of people are just sort of mouths agape, listening. doesn't matter what he's saying, just that he's talking for the first time in half a decade. george howell, thank you. >> reporter: the thing about it, he's at ease. you hear simpson in court, he's at ease. he seems comfortable, almost, you know, happy to be back in the spotlight, just very interesting to see him for first time talking about this. >> hey, george howell, look behind you. that spotlight has diminished a lot. because when we covered these cases up until now, right, you look around, where are all those placards and the crazy people dressed in bird suits saying o.j. is guilty, o.j. is innocent. it is not there anymore. people have had it with their details but still fascinated by
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him or his voice. all right, george, keep us posted on what the juice says on the stand. do appreciate your work there in clark county, vegas. we have news just in to cnn right now, want to switch your attention to the irs. don't we love talking about the irs? especially with scandals involved. serve doing that now. a source is telling cnn that the irs itself has pinpointed two, quote, rogue employees, apparently, working at its cincinnati office. the acting commissioner saying those two employees primarily responsible and this is the acting commissioner's description for overly aggressive handling of conservative groups' tax documents. according to same source, the irs acting commissioner describing the employees, again, his words, as off the reservation. attorney general eric holder just testified about this matter on capitol hill. take a look. >> to the extent there are enforcement gaps that we find, we will let this committee know
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and hopefully work with this committee to make sure that what happened and was outrageous as i've said and hope -- if we have to bring criminal actions, so that that kind of action, that kind of activity does not happen again. >> i understand that certain officials in the irs have apologized. does an apology immunize from criminal prosecution? >> no. >> not immune from criminal prosecution. listen, it has been a whiplash couple of days when it comes to what the white house has been juggling in terms of controversies. so in addition to the irs scandal, let's turn our attention to the justice department, secretly seizing the phone records from the associated press. because that's got tails and tongues wagging too. not only that, but the deaths of four americans at an outpost in benghazi, libya. here is how the white house has been responding to these questions over and over again. take a look.
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>> all i can tell you is that i cannot and he cannot comment specifically. i can't comment on this specifics of that. we simply can't comment on the specific investigation. but i cannot and he cannot appropriately comment on the specifics. this, i think, refers to this investigation, so i cannot comment on that. and we can't comment on an ongoing criminal investigation. i'm not going to comment on the specifics of an investigation. i just can't comment on the specific reports that you cite. i cannot comment on this specific investigation for all the obvious reasons. it would be inappropriate to comment on this specific investigation. you know, i cannot comment on this specific case. >> now, that's some math, let me tell you. crack producers putting in those graphics there. this has been a really tough time for jay carney and that press corps will not let him go on these. our chief political analyst gloria borger is live in washington, d.c. the press corps has been tough
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on jay carney, but jon stewart has been even tougher, it seems, on the white house. before i ask you the questions i have for you, gloria, i want you to watch how jon stewart on "the daily show" which i know a lot of people watch, you may say he plays fast and loose with some of the facts, but generally speaking, pretty good journalist. this is how he depicted how the president's been learning the news of all these controversies. have a peek. >> mr. president, when did you find out about the irs targeting conservative groups? >> i first learned about it from the same news reports that i think most people learned about this. i think it was on friday. >> he found out about the news reports yesterday on the road. >> and yesterday's news that the department of justice had seized two months of phone records from ap reporters. you know, i wouldn't be surprised if president obama learned osama bin laden had been killed when he saw himself announcing it on television!
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our, wow, we did that? why doesn't anyone tell me these things? >> pretty funny stuff. actually pretty serious too, gloria. what is the voracity when it comes to how the president learns about these extraordinary events? >> well, what i think we need to understand here is that in many cases the white house counsel's office, the president's lawyer, right, if you will, is informed about a lot of things. and decisions are made whether or not those things then rise to the level of informing the president. in the case of the irs investigation, for example, the white house counsel's office was told a couple of weeks ago. there is -- there was an inspector general report that was pending, and so they got a heads off. the question is why didn't they tell the president and i don't know the answer to that, other than the president, they may have wanted to wall him off from
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it, they may have felt until they got the report, he didn't need to know about it. then the story exploded and i guess he did need to know about it. but that's how these things kind of happen. you know, everything does not wind up on the president's desk. >> no. >> it should have, but it didn't. >> yeah. good point. a friend of mine used to do the presidential daily briefings at 7:30 every morning in the oval office and they are intricate and they are broad and vast. i don't understand how something this significant, look, two big things just off the bat, the associated press raid, so to speak, and then the irs issue. how could those not have been in the pdb, the presidential daily brief? >> well, the presidential daily brief includes a lot of things, including the president every morning learning about national security threats to the united states. in terms of the department of justice investigation, you know, there is a wall between what the
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justice department is doing, and what the president knows about, because if there were not that wall, ashleigh, we would complain that the president was directing his justice department to do investigations which cannot be the case. in fact, the whole notion about investigating all of these national security leaks actually came from republicans who were saying, you know what, we really need to figure out how to stop these leaks and that is exactly what the justice department is doing in this case. they may have done it badly, as we know, with this huge broad secret subpoena, but that's what they were doing. >> all right. well, more to come on that. gloria, thank you for your time, for your expertise. oh to be a fly on the wall in the oval office today. breaking news to our viewers now. i'm in phoenix, arizona, i'm reporting live on this capital murder case that captured this
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nation's attention. that's a very quiet courtroom in the jodi arias case now because the prosecutor not only wrapped up his summation of this secondary phase, part one, of a secondary phase, in this death penalty trial, but the judge has now given this to the jury. the jury has to decide an important question before anyone can do anything more in this case. they are now going back to the deliberation room to decide if the way that the victim in this case travis alexander died was especially cruel. that's the question for them. they will deliberate. if not right away, in moments. and then when they come up with the decision, yes or no, they can take a vastly different turn. we'll explain all that coming up next. i'm an accountant. a mechanical engineer. and i shop at walmart. truth is, over sixty percent of america shops at walmart every month. i find what i need, at a great price. and the money i save goes to important things. braces for my daughter. a little something for my son's college fund. when people look at me, i hope they see someone building a better life.
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...and we inspected his brakes for free. -free is good. -free is very good. [ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. got breaking news as we report live out of phoenix, arizona, that for about eight minutes now, the jury in the jodi arias case has been deliberating the second question on their list of jobs to do in this marathon, four-month long trial. job number two as those in the gallery sit and wait, attorneys who are milling about the courtroom, family members on both sides of this well, are literally waiting for this jury to decide if what jodi arias did, when she murdered her
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ex-boyfriend, was cruel. effectively that's the only question they need to answer. did she do something in a cruel manner when she murdered travis alexander? and because this is a mini trial of sorts, they were actually presented with testimony for about two hours this morning. one witness and one witness alone, the medical examiner. and who best but the guy who actually performed the autopsy to let the jurors and everybody else who was watching that proceeding know how painful it was when travis died and how long he endured that pain and suffering. that's the question this jury needs to answer. cnn's ted rowlands has left the k courtroom and made his way to the plaza. give me the mood inside the courtroom. we're not allowed to listen in, when the jury is not in the courtroom at this point, but give me the description of how things seem to progress. >> well, ashleigh, first off,
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you know, i've been in a lot of courtrooms in different phases, and you have as well, where it is very emotional, this was one of those periods of time where jodi arias was crying, travis alexander's family was crying, as juan martinez went through the very, very graphic images of travis alexander's body after he was brutally murdered by jodi arias and telling this jury to look at these wounds, and explaining how painful and how cruel this murder really was. and, you know, at one point he stopped for two minutes in length and said nothing and had the jury just take in that period of time and imagine being stabbed repeatedly over that two-minute period of time, dead silent to the courtroom, and it was effective. it was very emotional. the jury has just received their case now. and they have gone back to the jury room. whether they'll take lunch or start deliberating right away, we don't know. but it is up to them -- >> actually, ted --
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>> we move to the next phase. >> actually, just getting breaking news from o -- that wh just said is accurate, and there is some movement just since you started your live report. the judge in this case has actually just told everyone to leave the courtroom. i don't know if we have a live picture available. typically had the judge stops proceedings, they ask the live camera to focus straight up on the seal. and it is the seal on the wall. you can read it, it says the great seal of the state of arizona. the reason the focus of the camera right now is on the seal is because, ted, the judge just asked everyone to leave so she can conduct a sealed hearing. we're getting a lot of that in the last five days. quiet, private proceedings and judges chambers. there was ex-parte hearing last week, which only involves one side of the proceeding. that extended to a nonex-parte
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where the prosecutors were then involved. and i can report to you as well that the jurors, they were about eight minutes with this case and they requested to go to lunch. and gray swann had seen some of the jurors leaving, five wanted to go to lunch, two of them wanted a smoke break, not unusual. wrap that up for me, ted. a sealed proceeding. this is not unusual in this very unusual case. >> reporter: yeah, it is not unusual that they're having a behind closed door meeting, if you will, with the judge. a lot of this is under seal. i suspect they're talking about the scheduling if this jury comes back with a yes answer. are they going to go right into that final phase or not? but one thing we should point out, ashleigh, this hearing was post conviction, but also post interview of jodi arias where she said she wanted the death penalty. and it seemed as though the
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defense in this case, just my opinion, was very basic, there wasn't a lot of passion from curt nurmi in the opening or the close. it almost looked like they nailed nail ed it in and i wonder if it is because jodi arias claim she's wants the death penalty. >> i can't -- for the life of me, ted, i can't imagine being a defense attorney, putting your life into this case for the last several years and certainly the last four months, trying to save your client's life, and only to have her completely thwart that effort in that ridiculous courthouse interview, just remarkable. i wouldn't be surprised if that plays its way into the legal proceedings as well. ted, stand by, if you will. i have a couple of other stunning developments i want to bring our viewers up to speed on as well. the kidnapping case, the house of hourers in cleveland. sources are telling us at cnn that ariel castro allegedly
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played favorites with his victims. his captives. one of them, quote, his punching bag, according to family sources. i'm going to speak live with a psychologist about whether this could produce any kind of dynamic between three victims and how these women would cope with and without each other. stay right here. physics... a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen,
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we are learning a lot of disturbing details about what one of the cleveland kidnapping victims, michelle knight, went through. allegedly at the hands of her accused captor ariel castro. a family friend of michelle's says that michelle, quote, was castro's main punching bag, end quote. saying she was beaten to the point that she is said to have suffered vision loss, and joint and muscle damage. we also know, of course, she told police that he beat her while pregnant, causing five miscarriages and that he starved
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her repeatedly for weeks at a time. joining me now is david swanson, a licensed clinical psychologist, he's live in los angeles. david, i don't even know where to begin with the questions that i have for you. there is just so much to cover, but maybe you can just start with this notion that our pamela brown has been able to get information from her sources that there were apparently favorites that were being played, though in very small degrees, all three of these women suffered horribly, but there were varying degrees of favoritism. does that surprise you in any way, given the dynamic we have been hearing about there? >> yeah, it actually, unfortunately, ashleigh, it does not. very oftentimes these types of on duks abductions are driven by a sexual compulsion. when you see these things start to happen, the person who has the compulsion starts getting kind of satiated, we'll say, with the one victim he has and you see him go out and try to find more. this is a really sad situation because when you're a survivor,
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when you're one of these girls, you learn quickly and you maintain that role. and unfortunately, i got to this in this case she probably didn't receive him well, there was probably something that she did to get on his bad side and from that point forward, i think this is where you see this type of behavior occur, where she's beaten and lashed out at all the time. >> for ten years, i mean, just doesn't seem plausible. i know many of us are having a very difficult time getting our heads around just the overarching stories that have come out, but the details are just indigestible. i wondered if you could shed any light on what those three women would have gone through, in terms of trying to protect each other, and protect themselves. do they ally with one another or protect themselves and just sort of in essence try to survive? >> my guess is that these types of situations lead to these
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women being separated when they're in the house. they're taped up, chained up, very oftentimes kept away from each other so that, you know, the suspicion of having a plan or trying to escape doesn't actually come to fruition. this is a very controlling, dominant person who uses tactics of fear. i'm sure he waited outside the house and tested them and when they tried to escape, i'm sure he beat them senselessly as a result of that. i'm sure he tried everything he could do to make them afraid to leave. so if you put yourself into that situation, and you're one of these girls, you know, you're scared for your life, this is such a huge trauma and we hope they can recover from it. the idea that you're actually thinking about the other girl who is held captive with you, that really doesn't make any sense whatsoever. i think the primary concern for each one of these girls with the exception of having a daughter is that you're just trying to get by day to day and survive. you're just thankful he doesn't beat you one more time. these were, for ten years, terrifying years for these girls, for all three of them. and i got to think on a daily basis they were just concerned
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with doing what they needed to do to survive one more hour with this man. >> god bless them in their recovery efforts. they have such a long road ahead of them. david swanson, thank you for your insight today. i wish we could have met on a different set of circumstances but i appreciate your insight. david swanson live for us in los angeles. to boston, massachusetts. we are at the one month mark since the bombing that left four people dead and hundreds others injured this is a live picture of the memorial that is right there on boylston street as we learn more about how not only first responders were able to ply their trade at the day of the bombing, but also how firefighters have now stepped up and said they were not happy with their leadership. we got an update coming in just a moment.
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i'm ashleigh banfield reporting live in phoenix, arizona, at the case involving jodi arias. we're in the penalty phase. but i want to take you to clark county, las vegas, in fact. at the courthouse there, o.j. simpson made his appearance. this was the scene this morning in prison blues, with shackles as o.j. simpson came to his defense table, and the marshals led him in and actually unlocked his right hand so he had more freedom of movement, but those leg shackles remained as he walked to the front of the courtroom and took his place on
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the witness stand, swearing under oath to tell the truth and testify in his own appeal to get the judge in this case to throw out the result of his old trial, saying he did not have the right kind of defense, throwing his lawyer under the bus. better known in legal circles as the hail mary pass. i'm also watching what is going on in phoenix, arizona, but i want to talk about the significance of o.j. simpson speaking after so many years of silence and joining me live from new york, is former los angeles county prosecutor lonnie cooms. you know a thing or two about o.j. you are an l.a. girl. i was as surprised as many to hear this was coming, that he was going to take the stand. perhaps you not so surprised. but nonetheless, isn't it critical that o.j. had no choice but to break his silence and talk and tell it to the judge, because effectively there is not many other people listening? >> well, that's right. i mean, he wants to put on this
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defense that there was ineffective counsel and also this conflict of interest. and he is the one who is best to testify about this. so after all of these years, he's breaking his silence. unfortunately, it has nothing to do with the murders that everyone would love to hear about, it has to do with how his attorney treated him and handled the case there in las vegas. >> i had a feeling you were going to say that. will there be nothing about the murders of the two victims that he underwent nine months of trial testimony, nicole brown simpson and ron goldman, will there be nothing that comes into this proceeding because it did come into the vegas proceeding in '08. >> yeah, remember this is not a retrial of the case itself. it is simply going to the issues that he's raising, does he deserve a new trial? and it is based on two questions, did he have ineffectiveness of counsel, and was there a conflict of
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interest? and i'll tell you, ineffectiveness of counsel is a difficult hurdle to climb. i mean, there has been attorneys who slept through trial and the courts have still found they were effective counsel. but this conflict of interest -- >> wow. >> -- in this case -- yeah, there is an interesting issue in this case with the conflict of interest because of this relationship that yale galanter had with o.j. simpson and he's making some interesting allegations about the way yale handled the case, their relationship before the incident, what kind of advice yale galanter gave him about the incident, and there is some other attorneys that are corroborating some of the things that o.j. simpson is saying. so there is actually something to be said for this conflict of interest issue. it is not just the hail mary that everyone is saying. >> i believe that's the technical term that is used in courtrooms across this country, evidence, and evidence is key. lonnie cooms, i'm going to break for a moment with you. thank you for that. i appreciate it. we're continuing to watch what is going on in the clark county
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courthouse in las vegas. they're on a brief break. o.j. simpson may be getting lunch. who knows. about that time anyway. i want to bring you back here, where we're the same time zone in phoenix, arizona, where jodi arias' jurors got the case for a few minute before breaking for lunch. beth karas, our hln correspondent, has been not only watching this case from the beginning, but she was in the courtroom, just as the prosecutor in this case wrapped up what i can only imagine were very passionate arguments as to why the victim, jodi arias' murder victim, died in a painful and cruel way. >> the jury has to find that two elements were proven beyond a reasonable doubt. that travis alexander suffered physical or mental pain, distress, or anguish. that's number one. and jodi arias should have known or did know that she was causing him this pain. so a lot of people think this is going to be pretty quick. >> like a no brainer to the average person out there. >> correct.
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the only reason we're sitting out here and i had time to come out here and talk to you is because -- i was going to stay upstairs, the judge decided that she will take her lunch break, it is the lunch hour here, she will be available in about a little under an hour to take the verdict if they reach it. i did see two jurors in the hall escorted by a deputy. we heard a couple of them may want to take lunch. so perhaps they're not deliberating in this next hour. but they might be. >> i'm always amazed when i hear the smoke breaks, it is frequent. this is something jurors do a lot. they're under a lot of stress. this is something that many need, a mental break from the -- these aren't horrib these are horrible things they were hearing this morning. >> i don't think i saw the two close-ups of the stab wounds to the neck on right and left side, but we had seen the wounds, the slices to his head and learned today little divots, triangular divots in his skull from the impact of the knife. the knife -- the nine wounds to his back, all in a cluster, we
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had seen. slash across his throat, close up, gaping, you can see into his throat. >> they are allowed to bring in, i'm sorry it is so graphic, the reason it is graphic is because this is what the jurors need to decide. it is all about the details. all about the evidence. and graphic is what they're trying to decide upon. but you are allowed to bring in brand-new evidence, which is odd in this case. >> well, dr. horne, the medical examiner who did the autopsy, testified a couple of times during the course of the trial, maybe he could have testified to some of this but the defense might have said, wait a second, this is not necessary at this point. we know how he died. he doesn't need to talk about the extent of the suffering. it is more appropriate at this stage. so to that extent, it is new. >> i always feel sorry for jurors, they're doing this for pennies on the day. and they have given their last four months, daily, to this case. almost daily to this case. and then having to go through all of this, you know, almost a second time and then some. beth karas, stand by if you will, thank you for that.
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she gets only a minute or two of a break before they get back under way. i'm going to let you go. thank you for your time. and i also want to make sure you know that you can catch beth on dr. drew's program, she's going to be with did drew tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern on hln. and there will be a great wrap-up of all the things you probably will have missed, unless you can watch gavel to gavel, very difficult to do so, that's where beth comes in. coming up next, another bizarre case. and gruesome case. moments ago, a 12-year-old boy accused of killing his little sister after a couple of weeks of mystery, he's now appeared in court. we have not heard the details yet from the police in this case until now. back right after this. to eat. then rest. to fuel the metabolic cycle they were born to have, purina one created new healthy metabolism wet and dry.
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a lot of what i've learned about human trafficking has been through direct conversations with victims. i've interviewed many victims in several different country and several different situations and
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different age ranges. almost all the victims i've spoken to have been women and most in sexual exploitation. some of it is so shocking that it almost ruins you for a few weeks. you can't escape the horrendo horrendousness. this is going to change because it is morally intolerable. >> impact your world,
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in court this hour, a 12-year-old boy, 12 years old, accused of a horrible crime that shook a small town to its very core. the stabbing death of his own
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little sister, 8-year-old leila fowler was stabbed repeatedly at the family home in calaveras county, california, on april 27th. now, originally when the police responded, her brother was there, and he told them that a man had broken into their home, while they were home alone, while their parents were out. but over the weekend, the police instead arrested that little brother, that big brother. dan simon was inside the courtroom for the boy's first appearance. again, a 12-year-old boy, so this is juvenile court. we haven't known any part of the police investigation or the details of what they found essentially and why their attention was turned to the brother. what was said in court, dan? >> reporter: you know, ashleigh, we still don't know the details and, in fact the boy's own attorneys told us they still don't know the details. they say until they have reason to believe that his client, is anything other than innocent, they're going to continue to maintain his innocence.
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i was seated just a few feet away from this 12-year-old boy and if he was stunned or shocked or nervous, he certainly didn't show it. he had sort of this pleasant look on his face, he glanced repeatedly at his family, who was sitting in the front row. all of his parents were there. he is -- his father is married to -- he has a stepmother and biological mother was there as well. he was basically advised of his charge, he's facing a very serious charge, of course, of second degree murder, was told he'll remain in custody until at least until the next hearing, may 29th, but it is doubtful he'll be released anytime soon, ashleigh. and as far as these hearings go, it was basically a routine matter, but, of course, it is anything but routine given the circumstances. you talked about it. this case has really rocked this community because who we're talking about, we're talking about a 12-year-old boy who allegedly stabbed his 8-year-old sister. the next court hearing will be on may 29th. and obviously what we really need to know, ashleigh, what is
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the evidence, why did police point the finger at this 12-year-old boy? at this point, we still don't know the details. >> and how many questions the police asked him before the potential of those parents being able to shut it down. after all, a 12-year-old boy is not the same as any other murder defendant. dan simon, keep an eye on it. let us know if there is any development there from san andreas, california, thank you. up next, the chief of boston's fire department, wow, under fire, for how he handled the boston marathon bombings. his own deputy chiefs nearly all of them saying they are just not confident in his leadership any longer. we'll talk live to the reporter who broke the story and find out what was wrong.
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like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all our drilling activity, twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. safety is a vital part of bp's commitment to america - and to the nearly 250,000 people who work with us here. we invest more in the u.s. than anywhere else in the world. over fifty-five billion dollars here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger. .. back with you live now to boston there is a huge fallout unfolding over the fire chief's
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response after the boston marathon bombings, which today is the one-month anniversary since that terror attack. this is chief steve abraira and 13 of his 14 deputy chiefs are now saying he failed to show leadership after the bombings. they sent this letter of no confidence to the mayor. the letter says in part, quote, despite the fact that the members of the boston fire command staff have become accustomed to this ghost fire chief, end quote, nothing prepared us for his actions, actually inactions, on the day of the horrific terrorist attack at the boston marathon. i want to bring in the man who broke this story in "the boston globe" dave wedge who is a reporter for the globe. dave, what exactly is the problem? what is the big complaint that the deputies have of their chief? >> first of all, it's "the boston herald" sorry to correct you, ashleigh. >> i apologize. i stand corrected.
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"bonne "boston herald." very important distinction. >> no problem. the issue is the deputies mentioned they had a problem with this chief for a while. he is the first outside fire chief ever to be hired in boston, and, you know, boston is a pretty insular department, so they like their own. there is a bit of a rift there anyway. there's been all sorts of major incidents before the boston marathon with complaints he has been on the scene but hasn't taken command. obviously when the marathon bombings occurred it was a hugely chaotic scene. chief abraira was on the scene but didn't take command as in the other incidents and the deputy chiefs below him think that he should have done it. they said that's the way it's always done in the past in boston and they would have liked to have seen him take charge of the scene and, you know, the letter that you just mentioned is the result. basically saying that this is the straw that broke the camel's back of we've had enough and we need a chief that is going to be
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our chief in the field, in the public face of the department. >> so, dave, i just want, in defending himself, the chief actually spoke with our jason carroll on the phone earlier. i just want to paraphrase what he said to jason on the phone. in his own defense he says, in their estimation they believe that if you don't assume command you don't have responsibility there for what goes on. i tried to explain to them, if i'm on the scene, i'm still responsible. that's it. but they don't believe it. i think that the essential question i got to ask you out of this, is any one of his deputies alleging that perhaps people were worse off or the injuries were worse or potentially deaths because of what they allege was his behavior, or is it far less than that, that they are suggesting is an infraction? >> no. i mean, everyone pretty much agrees that the response to the marathon bombing was unprecedented. i mean, it was hugely successful as you guys have widely reported and other media outlets around the world saw that there was
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hundreds of rescues that day. there was dozens of lives saved because of the actions of the first responders and civilians and getting them to the hospitals in time so on and so forth. this is really an issue that's been going on in the department for a while and the marathon was the day where they say we needed every hand on deck. we needed people to be in operations mode and our chief was not and he should have been. >> okay. >> but no one is saying that they, you know, that anyone died because of his actions. but, certainly, they would have liked to have seen him take command at the scene. >> important to make that distinction as well. and important to make the distinction you are with "the herald." you've been doing great work and we appreciate you joining us today. dave wedge thank you, live from boston. we are right back after this break. humans. even when we cross our "ts" and dot our "i's", we still run into problems. that's why liberty mutual insurance offers accident forgiveness with our auto policies.
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from the cnn newsroom in new york, google's stock price surpassing $900 a share for the first time ever in the company history. keep in mind it has never been since the company went public in 2004. let's look at how google has done over the past five years, up 60%, back in 2008 trading at roughly $550 a share. right now it's trading at $900 a share. now, part of the reason is renewed investor confidence in google's ability to make money. you have its android software operating on over 600 million smart phones. look at the marketshare right here. android has 70% compared to apple's ios which has 22% of the marketshare. plus youtube, which is owned by google, is now rolling out paid
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programming creating new ways to make money from content. also, its annual development conference kicked off today in san francisco. investors got bullish as they anticipated possible new announcements of products. now you have to remember that last year they made an announcement and expectations were very high this year. the company announced a new version of google maps and a new phone. also take a look now at apple's main competitor, google's main competitor, apple, is not doing so well right now. the share price has dropped like a stone in 2012. it was trading at roughly $700 a share back in september. now it's trading at roughly $400 a share. from the scene of my newsroom in new york, i'm zain asher. we'll be back at the same time tomorrow. nown?
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we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪
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that's it for me live here in phoenix, arizona. but "the lead" with jake tapper is coming up next. thanks for watching. remember that kids book, alexander and the terrible horrible no good very bad day? i bet president obama does. he's having a week like that. i'm jake tapper and this is "the lead." the national lead. facing the firing squad. attorney general eric holder going before the republican controlled house judiciary committee and on the defensive over the many scandals swirling around the administration. the world lead. two years after the revolution in egypt, a plot to blow up western embassies there by a militant group with suspected links to al qaeda. the egyptian media reporting the u.s. embassy among the targets. thankfully it all unraveled. we'll tell you