tv CNN Newsroom CNN June 28, 2013 6:00am-8:01am PDT
many say she wasn't the perfect witness. she admitted to lying about not going to the funeral. she told jurors that certain words that many people believed to be racial slurs she didn't but when it came to the concept that it was her friend, trayvon martin, who started this fight, jeantel fought back. day four in the trial against george zimmerman started as rachel jeantel take two. a key witness for the state who appeared wednesday to be emotional one moment, combative the next, what a difference a day makes. >> are you okay this morning? >> yes. >> you seem so different than yesterday. just checking. did someone talk with you last night about your demeanor in court yesterday? >> no. i went to sleep. >> a more subdued jeantel endured more than three hours of meticulous questioning from defense attorney don west who challenged the 19 year old's account of what she heard when she was on the cell phone with trayvon martin a little more than a minute before the fatal shooting.
>> trayvon got hit. >> you don't know that, do you? >> no, sir. >> you don't know that trayvon got hit? >> no. >> you don't know that trayvon didn't at that moment take his fist and drive it into george zimmerman's face. >> please lower your voice. >> do you? >> no, sir. >> but moments later when asked the same question during the grilling, the teen held firm to her account of who attacked who. >> i thought in fact that you said that it could have been for all you know trayvon martin smashing george zimmerman in the face is what you actually heard. >> what? >> just earlier today. >> by who? >> by you. >> you ain't get that from me. >> reporter: the next witness, the woman whose the 911 call captured the moment trayvon martin was shot and killed. defense attorney mark o'mara question her about who she thought was screaming on the tape.
>> do you think he's yelling help? >> yes. >> did it seem that they were the screams of somebody who was getting beat up? >> they were being hurt somehow, yes. >> maybe someone who was having this done to them? >> it's possible. >> reporter: the final testimony of the day came from a witness who says she heard the gunshot and saw two people on the ground. she testified with the help of a spanish translator that she remembered seeing the man on top wearing a red and black jacket. the same jacket george zimmerman was wearing. >> there was a person crouching down over another person? >> correct. >> we'll get back to the courtroom live here in sanford, florida. you can see there in the side that the attorneys are back in court. we do know that we could hear from several other witnesses today possibly more neighbors
and even investigators, carol, who can give us the exactly what they saw, what they heard on february 26th, 2012. >> all right. george howell reporting live from sanford. as george intimated, today we are expected to hear from the neighbor known as flashlight man who took the first photos of george zimmerman right after the shooting but made no 911 calls. cnn's legal analyst is here. let's start with you, paige. they're going to talk to this name who went out to investigate what was going on. nobody has really heard from him yet or only very little from him. he didn't call 911. he had the flashlight and he confronted george zimmerman that night. what do you expect him to say? >> i think this is a very important witness for the prosecution because i think this witness will come in as mostly an objective witness. not with any particular bias.
not with any particular agenda. i think the jury will pay very careful attention to what this witness has to say. >> and that's important because you really want to know what george zimmerman's demeanor was right after he shot trayvon martin. >> i think all of these witnesses that were just neighbors and lived in the community are very important because as paige said they don't have dog in the fight. they've given their unbiassed testimony just based on their observations. more of that is supposed to come this afternoon. i do think that that will be important especially because some of them may corroborate what rachel jeantel said that she heard a scuffle on wet grass. she heard some words being said. if any of these witnesses can corroborate the fact that there was this scuffle and that george zimmerman was on top, that's the kind of information that the prosecution is looking for.
>> all right. you stand by. we'll come back to you once testimony begins. speaking of rachel jeantel, not one witness we will soon forget. jeantel at times it seemed like she was on trial. people criticizing her attitude and struggle to read and exchanges like this. >> describing the person is what made you think it was rachial. >> yes. he described you as a creepy ass cracker. >> yes. >> it was racial but it was because trayvon martin put race in this? >> no. >> you don't think that's a rachel comment? >> no. >> you don't think that creepy ass cracker is a rachial commen? >> no.
>> maybe if he decided to assault george zimmerman he didn't want you to know about it. >> that's really retarded, sir. >> i'm sorry. >> that's really retarded to do that, sir. if you don't know the person. >> in an article about "what whiteeople don't understand about rachel jeantel," they won't understand her especially not her defensive nature and this will unfortunately work against her. with me to talk about that is jason johnson, professor of political science and chief political correspondent for politics 365. jason, you also wrote a cnn.com article about this. in new york, michael, editor in chief for globalgrind.com. welcome to both of you. so jason, let's begin with you. you titled your article on cnn.com rachel jeantel is a
star. i'm not so sure that's a good thing. >> it's not. i think that the most critical thing i pointed out is that reaction to rachel jeantel had to do with cultural profiling. there were a lot of people saying she's strange and she's untrustworthy and unreliable. the moment she got on stage before she even faced a cross-examination, a lot because she's a plus sized dark skinned lack woman. that's one of the problems we have in society in general and a problem for prosecution in this case. >> according to the article on your website, you think these five white jurors won't understand where she's coming from but i kind of have to disagree with you. i think they really can see that she's just from a different socioeconomic background perhaps and she's a teenager who talks in a way most adults don't understand. >> my deputy editor wrote my
piece as an opinion piece. it's about race and reaction to rachel jeantel by white people. i think she connected with the jury and the american people because here's a young girl who was in the courtroom with the presence of the killer of her friend and badgering of a guy trying to protect the killer of her friend. maybe she lied about going to the hospital and not going to the funeral or lied to the parents about her age, but that was only to protect her own pain. she did not lie at all about the evidence in the case and she was consistent and incredible and i think she's going to be amazing for the prosecution. >> all right. we're going to pause for a second and go back to the court. this is greg mckinney. he works for nationwide security company. let's listen. >> what do you do? >> cctv monitor for security reasons. okay. what we do is we have cameras
out there to monitor surveillance and then we have excess control like card systems to get in the building. >> where is your company based? >> tampa, florida. >> that's where you go to work? >> yes. >> does kyour company monitor video surveillance systems for places outside of tampa, florida? >> yes. we're nationwide. >> may i approach, your honor? >> yes. >> i'll show you what's marked as state's exhibit 185 at this point in time. were you -- as part of what you do is review and download video surveillance from these types of systems? >> yes, sir. >> do you do that remotely? >> yes. >> tell me how that happens. >> what we do is we connect over the internet to the dvrs onsite and we review cameras there and download video too.
>> were you asked to do that as it relates to the incident on february 26th, 2012. >> yes. >> all right. if i could direct your attention up here, this is a portion of state's exhibit 1 which is already in evidence. it's an aerial view of that clubhouse. are you familiar with that layout? >> yes, i am. >> how many cameras does your company monitor at the retreat of twin lakes clubhouse? >> nine. >> all right. were there also cameras located at least physically at the front gate area of the complex? >> yes, sir. >> what did we learn about those cameras at least as of february 26th, 2012? >> they were not functioning because the mother hit the cables. >> okay. mr. mckinney, did you -- >> i said the front gate cameras were not functions because it looked like a mower hit the
pipes. >> were you able to download all of the known video surveillance from a period of time on that day? >> yes, sir. >> and so that would be for all nine cameras? >> yes. >> and is that what is depicted in state's exhibit 185? >> yes, sir. >> there are two disks associated with state's exhibit 185. what's the second disk? >> one is labeled copy. the other one is video clip pulled from the original data. >> one labeled copy, is that the full original data? >> yes, sir. >> and then the other one is just clips from that same disk? >> correct. >> if there's no objection, i would move state's exhibit 185 into evidence. >> approach for a moment, your honor. >> yes, you may. >> all right. let's go out to sunny to ask about this particular witness. now, there were a number of
security cameras around sunny hostin. what do you know about this? do they have video of that night? >> apparently they do. i've been waiting with bated breath for this particular evidence, carol. we knew that they did have some sort of surveillance video released in discovery or handed over to the defense in discovery. i never got an opportunity to see it. some discovery was redacted so media couldn't get it. imagine what's on that video surveillance. if there is any indication of running of a pursuit, anything that corroborates what all of these witnesses have been talking about like rachel jeantel and all of the folks that did call and heard things. they were ear witnesses but now we could possibly have footage that shows and corroborates what they fought that they heard. i can't begin to tell you how crucial this evidence could be for the state depending on what comes in. >> i'm surprised.
so much evidence came out about this case. so much was made public but not this? >> we did know. i did know there was some sort of surveillance video footage but again although it was released to the defense in discovery, the defense clearly had it, we didn't necessarily get to see everything. >> yeah. of course we don't know the quality of the video because it was dark that night. okay. testimony has started up again. we'll listen.
>> all right. obviously the defense is looking at something. i'm going to go to you, defense attorney. what are they doing do you think? >> i never had a criminal trial where there wasn't technical difficulty with playing evidence. this is fairly common. you asked earlier about the quality of the videotape. we have had a lot of surveillance tapes introduced in trials that i have participated in and the quality is usually very poor. but what is critically important is it can corroborate what a witness says. was someone running? how did someone appear? a large person? a small person? color of the jacket? i doubt we'll see crystal clear evidence of what happened but maybe enough to corroborate some of the other witnesses. >> i'm just thinking about the way defense attorneys cross
examined rachel jeantel like they were trying to shake the story like there wasn't very much trayvon martin running away. might that give us a clue as to what's going to appear on this video? >> it could. you know as sunny mentioned, the defense team has seen this surveillance video and know what's in it. you would anticipate that the questions they ask the other witnesses would lead into their theory or at least introduce the other evidence and the take on that evidence. i would expect so. >> all right. we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, we're going to pray the technical issues have been worked out. we'll be right back. [ female announcer ] there's one thing
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now. >> this is zoomed in on the clubhouse. i thought the original was state's exhibit 1. >> refer to it as 1-a. >> just a blown up section. >> right. if it's a blown up section exhibit 1-a. >> thank you, your honor. >> exterior cameras, is there one called the east pool hall camera? >> is there a west? >> of course. >> is that because there's a hall between the building and the pool? >> yes. >> is the east pool hall camera located outside of the building over in this vicinity? >> yes. >> and its direction of view would be this way? >> correct. >> all right. this little thing here, what is that? >> that's the mailboxes. >> so the camera actually faces that direction? >> yes. >> this would be twin trees
lane? >> correct. the clips that you referenced from state's exhibit 185, mr. mckinney, i'm going to first show you what we talked about as the kitchen video. is this what we're talking about? >> yes. >> we're looking out onto retreat view circle? >> that's correct. >> and the time on it appears to be 18:50:33 but you need to eight 18 minutes to that so pits actually 19:08:33 that we're
talking about? >> yes. >> was that something we just saw go by that window? something? >> i would object. improper foundation for any opinion evidence by this witness. he's here as a records custodian. >> all right. mr. mckinney, the next view was the east pool hall camera. is this the view from that camera? >> yes, it is. >> mailbox kiosk would be out
>> all right. this is going to be a long slog. i'm going to go to you, sunny hostin. they are establishing where these cameras are and what you can see through these eight cameras that are scatter around the neighborhood, right? >> yeah. i mean, again, this could be crucial. at this point to my eye is this someone carrying a flashlight that's going past the mailboxes? what they're trying to do and we know that george zimmerman had two flashlights on his person that night, what they're trying to do is sort of corroborate the eyewitness testimony and refute george zimmerman's testimony. we know that george zimmerman knew this area very well. he had made numerous phone calls to nonemergency numbers talking about what he believes was suspicious activity and giving his location to those operators and so now we're seeing where
perhaps george zimmerman was, where perhaps trayvon martin is. i think that this is going to be very important evidence if these videos really show something. >> okay. let's listen to what the witness is saying again. >> good morning, sir. >> good morning. >> were you working for this company back in february of 2012? >> yes. >> okay. when was it that you were actually -- did the work that you are now talking about distilling out this information o onto a disk? >> i did it the day afterwards. on 3/21 i was asked to get it again. >> previous to this event happening, have you ever been to this area? >> no. >> you know that's a pool because it looks a lot like one. >> i've been there just the other day. >> just recently? >> yes. >> when? >> last night. >> that was at the request of the state? >> yes.
>> to familiarize yourself with the area? >> correct. >> before yesterday you had never been there? >> right. >> so you familiarized where those cameras were? >> yes. >> are they identified at your remote location by a number or a location so you know where to look? >> they are identified by name. east pool. west pool. >> when was it you realized there was a malfunction with the timing mechanism? >> the 28th we had a service technician on site. >> 28th of? >> of february. >> of february 2012? >> correct. >> any idea or any explanation how your system would be 18 minutes off? >> that's just the nature of computers and clocks like that. they drift. >> you said approximately? >> yes. >> you don't know exactly? >> not at this time, no.
>> could have been 19 minutes? >> i would say within several seconds of 18 minutes. >> 18 minutes dead on or 18 minutes 30 seconds? >> i would say within 15 or so either way. >> so total span of 30 seconds? >> yeah. that's just a guess. >> i'm sorry? >> i'm just guessing there. >> let's not guess. >> i don't know. that's the answer. i don't know. >> you don't know how far off it is but somewhere around 18 minutes. >> correct. >> could be 19? could be 17? >> possibly. that would be a guess. >> okay. since we started with guessing, it could be 17 minutes or 19 minutes, correct? >> i don't know. >> okay. and do you know if this was a concern that kept going like it would lose a second an hour so it might be a lot more or a consistent or do you even know
that? >> i don't know how long the drift speed. >> so it could have been several minutes more than that if there was just some malfunction that just happened and it was getting worse by the time you retrieved it two days later it was 18 minutes but it could have been 25. it was just moving to the point of 18 when you caught it? >> that would be speculation. i don't know. >> okay. you have nothing to support any other contention? >> i just know at the time i checked it, it was 18 minutes off. >> thanks. nothing further, your honor. appreciate it. >> any redirect? >> no. thank you. >> you may be excused. call your next witness please. >> all right.
they just excused mr. mckinney because page pate told me it was just to establish the video cameras were there. and now mr. mckinney has been excused. page, we probably won't see the video at this time or maybe we will. this next witness is named john good. i'm not quite sure of the significance of this witness. we'll wait until they introduce him. am i right with that? >> you're right. mr. mckinney was just a foundation witness they brought in to say this is the camera and angle and this is when i retrieved it. the judge wouldn't allow him to answer questions about his opinion about what was on the video. >> let's listen to this witness. john good. i believe he's a neighbor. >> good morning. state your name for the record. >> jonathan good. >> your last name is spelled g-o-o-d? >> correct. >> are you married?
>> yes. >> how long have you been married? >> i get in trouble to saying this. a little over a year. >> do you have any kids? >> no. >> what do you do for a living? what business are you in? >> i work if finance. >> how long have you been in that line of work? >> six years. >> can you briefly tell us about your educational background, sir. >> fsu graduate. >> i'm not going to ask you for your current address but are you currently living in seminole county, florida? >> yes. >> want to draw your attention to february of last year, february of 2012. were you living at a townhouse at the address being 1221 twin tree lane? >> yes. >> and is that a town house that has bedrooms upstairs and then living quarters downstairs? >> correct. >> at that time in february of 2012 when you were living there, how long had you been living there about? >> three or four years. >> if you could, if you enter
into your residence back in february of 2012 at twin tree lakes lane, when you come in, what do you enter into? >> it depends -- are you talking about the house? >> yes. >> you come in right past the bathroom and then downstairs living quarters. >> where would the stairs be located in that residence? >> when you make your way by the tile you go right and stairs are on the right. >> toward the back exterior of the house is there a living quarters meaning a living room or dining room combination? >> yes. >> is there a sliding glass door that goes out into your backyard? >> yes. >> do you have back porch -- back in february, did you have a back porch of that residence? >> it would be considered a back porch. it's just a slab of concrete with two pillars on each side. >> so you don't actually have a screened in porch or anything? >> no.
>> it's just a slab of concrete and you open a glass door and step out and there's concrete? >> correct. >> and if you would step out in the backyard, is there a walkway that separates your yard and then the yard from the town homes across from you? >> yes. >> okay. on your sliding glass door, were there blinds at all back in february of 2012 specifically on february 26th, 2012? >> yes. >> tell us if you could about those blinds. >> they were always closed. >> and the blinds, what type of blinds are they? regular blinds? >> junky, white tall blinds. >> vertical or horizontal? >> vertical. >> when you say they're closed meaning the whole sliding glass door you could not see out into the backyard? >> correct. >> was that back in february of 2012 just on purpose? >> yes. >> okay.
let's focus on that february 26th, 2012. were you home that evening, sir? >> yes. >> and at around 7:05, 7:10, 7:15, around that time, were you home with your wife at that time? >> yes. >> what were you all doing? >> watching tv. >> and there might be more than one tv in the residence, was it downstairs in the living room? >> yes. >> if you could kind of explain to the jury the layout of the living room, do you have a recliner, sofa, where were you and where was your rifwife? >> sitting on the couch against the left side of the wall. kitchen is on the right. l-shaped couch. we were watching the tv from there with sliding glass door on the left. >> so if you were watching the tv sliding glass door to your left? >> correct. >> okay. and at some point while you were watching tv, i guess i should ask you when you were watching tv, do you recall what program you were watching? >> no.
>> was the volume up? some watch it muted. >> we could hear the tv. >> in terms of how loud it was, do you recall how loud it was? >> no. >> okay. did you hear some noise outside? >> yes. >> okay. and was the noise you heard outside such that you were able to hear it inside? was it loud or do you recall in terms of describing it to jury the noise when you first heard it? >> it was faint. >> and in terms of where the noise was coming from in relation to your backyard, can you say it was from the left to the right, could you tell? >> i could not tell. >> when you first heard the faint noise, what did you think in terms of what was going on outside or did you have an impression as to what was going on outside? >> the first time we heard something i didn't think anything of it. >> and when we say faint or when you say faint, could you make out anything other than some
noise? >> no. >> okay. did you then hear further noises? >> yes. >> okay. and if you could describe to the jury when you heard a faint noise, you heard further noise, was that like seconds later, a minute later, two minutes later. i know you didn't have a stop watch? >> i believe i stated i can't tell the time frame. maybe a couple minutes. i can't be sure. >> okay. you weren't timing it i gather? >> i don't time daily life. >> and then you heard further noise maybe a few minutes later. what was the noise you heard later? >> the same noise just louder. seemed like it was getting closer. >> okay. at that time when you heard the second time, could you tell where the noise could you make out any words? >> no. >> could you tell whether it was one individual or two individuals at that time? >> no. >> what happened then in terms of what's going on outside? after you heard additional
noise, you couldn't make out words or tell whether it was one or two people, then did you hear? >> that's when i proceed to go to the sliding glass door to look out. >> you got up from the couch and went to the sliding glass door. did you open the blinds or what did you do? >> i cracked the blinds to see if i could see anything going on outside. >> now, are there lights i'm assuming inside the living quarters where you were at? >> yes. >> are there lights outside? one on the back porch. >> do you recall whether the light was on or not? >> it was on. >> do you need to take a minute to get a drink? >> i'm okay. >> what i'm trying to ask is was your view objecstructed in any ? >> i would say the screen obstructed it somewhat. >> when you looked out through the blinds, let's make sure we have a good description of when you looked out through the
blinds, you said they were vertical or horizontal? >> vertical. >> did you peek through or move a few. >> i peeked through one. if i moved a couple, they would fall out probably. >> what did you see from your vantage point inside the residence? >> i could see anything other than it looked like someone or something was out there. >> what did you proceed to do, if anything? >> under direct reply from my wife not to go outside, i opened the blinds and opened the sliding glass door. >> so you made a fatal mistake and disregarded your wife? >> yes. i'm sure there will be more. >> i gather she was still in the living room? >> correct. she was on the phone. >> was she just talking to somebody? >> she was talking to technology service group. >> it wasn't related.
she didn't call 911 at that point? >> no. >> she told you not to go outside but you disregarded her request, command, whatever, correct? >> yes. >> and when you say you actually stepped outside, if you could demonstrate to the jury or describe picturing a sliding glass door, do you have to unlock it and then just move it or describe if you could -- >> sliding glass door you had to pull the screened in part back and i literally only took one step outside the door onto the concrete slab. >> when you say you took one step, do you mean literally you put one foot in and one foot still inside? >> correct. >> so one foot on the concree one foot still in the house looking out at that time? >> correct. >> what do you see when you look out there at that time? >> it looked like a tussle. i could only see one person and i think i described it as possibly being some type of dog attack because there are a lot
of dogs that walk in that back area and i could only see an object. >> okay. what then did you observe after that? >> it seemed like a tussle. they were vertical to me just like the blinds were. and then at one point i yelled out what's going on? stop it, i believe. >> so do you watch football? >> yes. >> okay. you know how on football they have instant replay? >> yes. >> i'm going to as best i can do an instant replay. my question is you stepped outside and in terms of how long you had one foot out, was it seconds? was it minutes? how long do you think? >> seconds. >> and in terms of estimating assuming you didn't have a stop watch with you, correct? and your wife was not timing you at all. >> no.
>> is that accurate? >> accurate. >> can you estimate how long was it one second, two seconds, three seconds, four, five, six, seven or can you say? >> in regards to? >> how long you actually -- when you put one foot out -- >> a few seconds. >> okay. you mentioned when you put your foot out and you first saw something out there, you mentioned vertical. can you elaborate a little bit more on that? >> if i'm looking at someone in the backyard, their face directly onto the ground so they are vertical. not horizontal. vertical to me. >> okay. they are vertical meaning the same way you are right now in terms of like this? >> they would make a t with a sidewalk. >> in terms of the sidewalk that we're going to show you some photographs, how close to the sidewalk was -- could you tell if it was one or two people? >> i couldn't tell at that time, no. >> how close was the object to the sidewalk? >> they weren't on the sidewalk
but like i said i could only see so far because it was vertical to me. >> okay. could you make out anything other than there was an object there? >> not at that time. >> okay. and did the object end up moving? >> the object -- >> what was on the ground, did it end up moving? >> yes. >> in relation to where it was first when you first observed it to when you described the second time when they appeared, you said horizontal. how far from the original place did the object move? >> not far. i wouldn't say. just up on the concrete. >> all right. at that point could you tell there was one individual there at least or two people? >> i could tell there were two when they were still vertical. >> okay. all right. if you could, could you tell at that time in terms of describing who was on top and who was on the bottom? >> i could only see colors of clothing. >> the color of clothing on top,
what could you see? >> it was dark. >> how about the color of clothing at the bottom? >> i believe it was a light white or red color. >> and are you going from memory since you said it was only a matter of seconds, right? >> i don't understand your question. >> my question is, you're not making notes as you're doing this. you're not taking photographs or anything as you're doing this, right? >> no. >> so positions changed. how long did it take for the positions to change? an ongoing process or a stop. >> it was quick. i only have seen a few seconds of what happened any way. >> could it be as little as two or three seconds? >> you mentioned the second positioning or the change in position if we call it, they were horizontal. at that point could you tell it was two individuals? the same people? >> yes.
>> and in terms of describing the individuals are you able to describe their faces or just clothing descriptions? >> going back to when they were vertical, i could tell the person on the bottom had lighter skin color, correct. >> all right. when you saw them horizontal at that positioning, who was on top and who was on the bottom? >> the same position still. >> all right. if you can describe the position of the person on top in relation to the person on the bottom. >> i believe i described it as a straddling position. >> and what do you mean by that? >> with the legs over the lower part of the body. >> and the person on the bottom, could you tell whether that person was face up or face down? >> face up. >> when you first observed the -- now you know two individuals at that time, could you see whether the person on the bottom was face up or face down? >> when they were vertical? >> when you first saw them, when
you first stepped out, could you tell whether the person on the bottom was face up or facedown. >> when i first stepped out, no. i couldn't see anybody. >> and then at some point when you observed the second time you're talking about, you saw the person on the bottom was face up? >> correct. >> the person on the top you said was straddling you described it? >> correct. >> could you tell what was going on at that time? >> i think at that time is when i thought it was serious. >> what made you think that? >> because it looked like there were strikes being thrown or punches being thrown but as i clarified due to the lighting, it could also have been holding down. but there were arm movements going downward. >> the arm movements that you describe would that have been from the person on top? >> correct. >> and you say that was a dark colored attire of some type?
>> correct. >> the person on top, if you can, you say arm movement. how would you describe the arm movement? >> shoulder down. >> okay. could you see that person's hands? >> just appendages. too dark to see that type of stuff. >> the person on top, could you tell whether that person on top was actually striking -- here's what i'm going to do. were they going like this? >> i could not hear that, no. >> could you hear this? >> no. >> could you tell whether the person on top was holding the person or trying to hold the person on the bottom? >> at this point i would object. that's leading. >> overruled. >> i think you stated -- your testimony in terms of whether the person on the top was holding down the person on the bottom, could you tell? >> it could have been possible. there was arm motion going downward and not just once but multiple times. >> you can't say one way or the
let's mhead back to the george zimmerman trial. a neighbor saw two figures tussling. he also testified a figure wearing darker clothing was straddling a figure wearing a whiti whitish/reddish jacket. you see the side panels there. that's what we call them. that's what you missed during the break. read those. let's listen in again. >> when you stepped out, you mentioned two individuals that you describe. did you see anybody else out there? >> not at first. >> okay. at some point later on did you
see individuals? >> at the very end, after. >> when you were stepping outside, did you notice any other neighbors peeking out or anything from any of the windows? >> my focus wasn't on that. . at the point. where you are seeing the two individuals, one on top of the other, i think you describe a straddling position, can you see the person on the bottom, their hands? >> they were at a side-view, so i don't think so. >> could, by that, could you tell whether the person on the bottom had a gun out already? >> no. . >> you can't say one way or the other? >> i can't tell, no.>> you can'
other? >> i can't tell, no. . >> sir, i'm going to play the 911 recording and we'll walk throu through. >> any objections? >> no, your honor. >> 911. >> can you stop a second? i apologize, i neglected to put on the record what the exhibit number is, for the record, it's states exhibit 162. >> hello, 911, police, fire or medical? >> police, i just heard a shot right behind my house. >> uh-huh. >> 122127 tree lane, they are
wrestling outside my back porch? >> you heard one shot? >> either that or a rocket at the window the guy is yelling "help." i'm not going out. >> you said 11221 twin tree lane, sanford, florida. >> 122 -- >> 1221 twin tree lane, sanford, florida. >> is that one or two -- >> when the tree, it's two words. >> okay. and you hear somebody yelling for help? >> i'm quite sure the guy is dead. >> is there anything else that you heard? >> no. the guy yelling, requested help, oh my good!" no, there is a guy in the back yard with a flashlight now. i think there is flashlights and there is a guy.
i don't know if that's a cop. >> okay. i had several calls. you just heard -- did you hear a voice, it was one person? >> there's two guys. there's two guys in the back yard with flashlights. >> okay. >> and there's a black guy down. it looks like he's been shot and he's dead. >> okay. and there is multiple people calling right now. >> okay. >> i have several officers going out there, okay. >> okay. thank you. >> bye-bye. >> all right. >>. >> mr. good, you recognize that being your voice? >> unfortunately.
>> you mentioned that somebody with a flashlight, that what you were saying, then later, other individuals appeared, is that correct? >> yeah, it looked like people came around the corner at some point. >> i want to go back to what you described out there. i think you described a straddling position. is that the case of the posture of the person on top versus the person on the bottom? >> it's both. yeah. >> at some point, you also used the word or the descriptive words as mma style. do you recall saying that? >> yes. >> and did you mean by that what, sir? >> as a straddle position like that. it's a common position you would see in a -- >> is that like mma is like mixed martial arts, is that correct? >> correct. >> you watch that on stuff? >> ah, not recently. >> but when you say that, you were referring to the position the person had on top over the
person on the bottom, i don't want to put words if your mouth. >> the actions of the arms looked like something i had seen on tv before, so that's the first thing that came to my mind. >> could that be referred to like wrestling, that type of thing? >> i don't understand your question. >> my question is, did you ever see the person on top pick the person from the bottom and pul actually slam them into the concrete? >> no. >> did you ever see the person on top slamming the person on the bottom's head on the concrete over and over and over? >> no. . >> did you see at any time the person on top grab the person on the bottom's head and slam it into the concrete? >> no. .
>>. >> sir, when you were living at that residents, i believe miss louder lived there, is that correct, she was your next door neighbor? >> correct. >> and at some point i believe in a deposition you actually heard in the recording the 911 call was cries for help. do you recall that? >> yes. yes. >> prior to that deposition, had you heard that recording? >> no. .. at that deposition, when you heard the recording, did you make an observation to what you heard? >> it did not sound the same. >> with the court's permission, may i publish those to the jury, you're u your honor? >> yes, you may. >> first of all, states exhibit number 1, i'm going to next year, do you recognize this,
this is a google aerial photograph of when the lakes. >> yes. >> i'm going as best i can blow up an area. you were living in this area, is that correct? >> yes. >> the back yard, we are talking the sidewalk or people refer to it as a dog path, would this be it right here? >> yes. . >> so is the area that you are talking about, am i circling it right here? >> yes. >> okay. for the record, that was states exhibit number 1. i emphasize a part of that exhibit. sir, i'm showing you states exhibit number 6. can you make out your back yard on that exhibit, sir? >> i guess.
>> would this have been miss louder's residence and your residence is right here in the back yard? >> yes. >> or the back sliding glats door? >> correct. >> okay. >> i neglected to ask you about the conditions in terms of the weather that night, february 26th, 2012, at around 7:05, 7:10, 7:15 p.m. is it safe to assume it was dark at that time, sir? >> yes. >> and do you recall the weather conditions in terms of whether it was raining -- >> we will take a quick break. we'll come back with more. to make their money do more. (ann) to help me plan my next move, i take scottrade's free, in-branch seminars... plus, their live webinars. i use daily market commentary to improve my strategy. and my local scottrade office guides my learning every step of the way. because they know i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. i'm with scottrade. (announcer) scottrade... ranked "highest in customer loyalty for brokerage
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>> good morning. i'm carol costello. it's about 10:00 eastern time. we are listening to testimony from neighbor john good. he stepped out on to his back porch the night trayvon martin was killed and saw two dark persons tussling. he testified the lighter-colored man was on the bottom and the darker-colored person on the top was throwing some kind of blows. ten he went back into his house to call 911. there was that gun show. he told the 911 operator that one of the men was dead. they're now kind of describing the back yard and where exactly this all went down. so let's listen in.
>> thank you. may i approach the witness, your honor? >> yes, you may. >> mr. good, i'm going back to february of last year, state exhibit 139. do you live at right here at 1221. >> yes. >> okay. >> and in terms of this exhibit, states exhibit 139 back in february of 2012, when you lived right here at 1221. there is a, the picture of a person there. is this about the area where you are describing you saw? >> beginning or end. >> tell me, using this kind of point the beginning and the end
as best you can recall when you observed something in there and went back inside. >> yes. >> okay. all right. and you mentioned concrete. is this sidewalk we are talking about? >> yes. >> mr. good, you went back inside and called 911. at some point, do you hear a gunshot? >> yes. >> okay. do you recall whether that was before you called 911, during the 911 call, or after the 911 call. >> i believe it was while i was dialing. >> okay. >> in terms of how long, do you know how long it took you to dial? did you run to your phone and grab it? did it take you a minute, did you say to your wife, i was outside, sorry. >> oh, she could see me. no, it was probably right
inside. i usually keep my phone next to me. >> okay. >> and do you believe the 911 call, i'm sorry the shot was while you were dialing or you were actually on the line? >> when i was on the line waiting to get picked up, correct. >> okay. >> if i pay have a moment, your honor. >> you may. >> when you ben went back inside and you heard a gunshot. prior to that, did you hear any more yells for help at all? >> i don't think i was even focusing on that. >> you were focusing on calling 911? >> yes. >> in terms of i think you
stated three cries for help, three statements of help, you went outside and there was two people there. >> i think i stated one, two maybe. could have been possibly three. >> oh, i'm sorry. i don't want you to guess. but you definitely one or two? >> yes. >> was it all one voice or was it money one voice? >> it sound to be the same voice. >> and you are not able to identify that voice or are you able to identify it? >> not 100%, no. >> and to make sure the record is clear, when you heard, when you looked out there and saw two individuals and you heard one say, "help," did you only here,
"help, help," or anything other than "help, help,"? . >> that's all i heard. >> thank you, i have no further questions at this time. >> thank you, mr. o'mara. >> my cross, is direct is the time for a break? i need a few minutes with exhibits. it's up to the jury. >> does anybody need a break at this time? no. okay. >> i need a couple minutes for the get the exhibits ready. >> sure. >> all right. we're going to step away while mark o'mara, george zimmerman's defense attorney figures things out. i want to turn our attention to our court observer, jason johnson. while you were listening to john good's testimony, you thought the same as i did, why did the
defense put this witness on the stand? >> yeah, i thought it was strange. he seemed to be corroborating the defense's story trayvon was on top, he was landing mma-style blows, which is exactly what george zimmerman wants the jury to believe. i think ultimately the consistenty with which he is speaking, the dispassionate with which he is speaking, that may build the case the other way. off the top, i didn't think it was helping the prosecution at all. >> you understand we were able to accomplish that up until today or i guess option that we couldn't do it because of the way the process works? >> correct. >> so when we, of course, you are to come here and tell us as best you can recall what you said that night and told those people, correct? >> yes. >> let's ten talk about that
night and mr. dearionda walked you through it. i want to define the terms that you used to make sure it's clear. you were watching tv, correct? >> yes. >> you first hear some noise outside that gets your attention, correct? >> yes. >> i think you said that was sort of this noise or yells or something, wasn't it? >> i didn't say yells. >> what did you say, sorry? >> i just said a noise in the distance. >> and both you and the jury are going to look at this behind you. it's been identified that you, looking at it over there. and that i think you said the noise came from as you were looking out which way, when you first heard the noise? >> when i first heard the noise, i wasn't looking out. so i couldn't tell where it came from. >> could you tell in which direction? >> just that it was getting closer. >> could it have been in this area, for example? >> i thought we weren't
speculating. >> i'm asking in your opinion, if it could have been. >> objection, calls for speculation. >> sustained. >> okay. >> so that got your attention enough that you turned off or muted the tv? >> i muted the tv, correct. >> okay. what was the very next this inc. that caught your attention? >> i heard it again, but it seemed like it was getting a little louder. >> could you tell at that point where it was coming from? >> it seemed leak it was getting closer to where i was. >> in response to that, what did you do? >> that's going to lead me to the tv again. i proceeded to the sliding glass door. >> so there was a time in between the two, you turned the tv down because of the first noise, you turn the tv back on? >> yes. >> do you recall about how long of a time that was between the two? >> no. >> could you have said previously it was a couple of minutes? >> you were wanting a time frame, so yes. >> no, that's okay.
i don't want to put words in your mouth, but you had said it was a couple minutes? >> sure. >> does that sound about right still? >> like i said, we weren't keeping track of time, so it could have been a couple minutes. >> then the next noise got your attention, you muted the tv again, what else did you do? >> that's when i muted the tv, i went to the sliding glass door. >> okay. >> and looked outside and i want you to say again what you saw but i'm going to ask you to break a little bit alloing the way, because i want to define some terms. okay. so when you first looked out after that second noise, what did you see? >> i couldn't really tell what was out there. >> okay. tell us as best you can your view and what it was. >> like i said, i couldn't tell what was actually out there. so that's when i opened the sliding glass door, opened the screen and took a step out to see what was going on to get a better view. >> okay. >> and tell us what you saw.
>> it looked like, like i said, maybe possibly a tussle, but i could only see one person out there at that time. >> you used the terms vertical, horizontal and i want to just sort of clarify those so that we're on the same page. i'm going to use horizontals a being laying flat on the ground. okay in. >> well, that's your perception of it if you are looking at it. would be horizontal a different way. >> okay. that's what i want to clear it up. i'm going to suggest and see if we can agree with this conversation that horizontal would mean that they're laying on the ground flat, i'm not saying anyone was yet. we'll get to that, the term horizontal means basically you are laying on the ground flat. >> they were laying on the ground. >> okay. then vertical would be as i am now standing up vertical and we'll get to some more in a minute. right now, can we agree i'm
standing up vertically? >> correct. >> okay. with that in mind as best you can, describe the scene that you saw from your perspective. first, tell me about how far away this was that you were looking at. >> it was closer to the sidewalk but not on the sidewalk. >> okay. >> 15, 20 feet? >> i guess, yes. >> okay. if the sidewalk was about fen 20 feet away from your porch to the sidewalk was about 20 feet, would that be about close to act rat? >> 20 feet from the slab of concrete on my porch to the sidewalk? >> yes. >> i guess. >> okay. >> let's use that for now. we'll see how we can tie that up in a little bit. about how far then, was it about that 20 feet almost to the pathway of the concrete path? >> yeah, it was close to the sidewalk. >> and again, tell me now, using the terms we've agreed to, what
was it that you remember they were saying? >> they were laying on the ground, and if you fell back vertically, that's how i would be look at them. >> so if i was on my back vertically, that was one of the people? >> that was how i could see it t. one that i could see in the beginning, his back was towards me, but facing downward. >> okay. well, let me say it like this, the person you see that you saw his back? >> mm-hmm. >> was he like this? >> at the beginning, no. >> okay. how was he and just sort of point at me how he was when you first saw him. >> you would have to go all the way to the ground. >> over more, like that? >> no. it was more just flat on flat. >> okay. >> so one person horizontal on top of the other. >> correct. >> then when did that change? >> when it moved up to the sidewalk. >> okay. so as we now move closer to the sidewalk, what is the
positioning of the two of what you see? >> it happened very quick. >> okay. >> but that's when it was at more of a straddle position once it got onto the sidewalk. >> when you say "straddle," can you explain that in more detail? >> to get another visual? >> if you wish. >> sure. okay. >> i don't want you get to embarrass me the jury get to see it as well. >> no, it was more the person on top's legs were over the person's on the bottom that was laying flat on the ground. >> okay. >> so now the person on top is, in fact, like this over the person on the bottom in. >> i would say that's accurate. >> okay. and the person on the bottom was laying flat? >> correct. >> could you tell if he was on his back or not? >> he was on his back. >> he was on his back. at this point what's the person on the back wearing? i'm sorry, the person on the top, whose back you could see wearing? >> it was the same person on the top when they were t-shaped to
the sidewalk. >> i'm sorry. they did not change positions, did they? >> no. >> except one the one on top in the black actually instead of laying down on the guy on the bottom was now straddling him, correct? >> correct. >> and they are now closer to the cement pathway, correct? >> they would be on the cement at that point. >> on the cement. and what movement were you, i want you to sort of walk us through that, but at the point. now tell me when your focus of attention is really on what they're doing? is it at that point with the straddling? >> well, it was on the entire time. but like i said, it was only probably 8 to 10 seconds from what i remember because it was so quick. >> you had said, i'm sorry, you were saying. >> but when they were on the
concrete, the position was, with arm movement going downweird. >> from the time that you were first stepped out to watch them, inle the time you turned back around, was about 8 to 10 seconds, correct? >> i would say because it was very quick. >> 8 to 10 seconds? >> yeah, it wasn't a long time, no. >> okay. mr. de a rionda said it was two, it was more than two, wasn't it? >> i didn't say the whole thing was two seconds. >> what was going on? >> 8 to 10 seconds. >> that's when you had your focus specifically on what turned out to be as we all know trayvon martin and george zimmerman, correct? >> correct. >> we didn't know then. now we know who they were. >> yes. >> 8 to 10 seconds you were watching tell do whatever is happening? >> i would say yes. >> okay. >> and you were talking about a movement or a struggle that you saw. tell me more about that.
>> would you see -- >> the beginning, the end, or the whole thing? >> the beginning, at the beginning. >> like i said, when i walked out, it looked like there was only one person, then i could see a second person. it looked more of a tussle. and that's when i thought it got serious when it moved up to the sidewalk. he was more in a straddle position and arm movements were going downward. but i couldn't 100% say those were strikes or they were arm movements going downward. >> of course, you were trying as you testified here today to be extraordinarily literal, aren't you? to be very careful about what you say is only what you saw? >> well, that would have been through the whole thing. that's the same thing as i said in the deposition. >> sure. even in your initial statement when you first had an opportunity to talk to an officer about this, the very first time you explained as best you can recall what you saw.
right? >> correct. >> and what you saw was the person on top in an mma-style straddle position. correct? >> correct. >> that was further described, was it not, as being ground and pound. >> correct. >> what is ground and pound. >> that's usually what takes place in that type of position. >> in mma, mixed martial arts. >> correct. >> you knew it enough to give technology like ground and pound to what you saw? >> it was the first thing that came to my mind, yes. >> the person on top was grounding and pounding the person on the bottom. >> that's what it looked like, yes. >> explain what ground and pound is in your mind. >> the person on top being able to punch the person on the bottom, but the person on the bottom also has a chance to get out or punch the person on top. it's back and forth. >> sure. which is the dominant position?
>> it would be the top position. >> because why? >> for most people that, would be the dominant position. >> because are you on top of the other person, right? >> usually, that's a positive, i would think. >> all right. it distracted me a bit. i want to make sure it didn't distract the jury. i apologize, i will go back i want to go back so you fully absorb it. start by telling me again what ground and pound is. >> it's usually when a person is on top in a mounted position, i believe and the dominant position like i said the person on the bottom is able to, you know, get out of that position or, you know, throw punches back. but i did not see any of that. >> okay. the dominant position of b.c. on top is because you actually have all of your weight on the person's hips, right, holding
them down? >> correct. >> from that position the person on the bottom can't move very much and can't get very much movement or very much leverage, can they? >> i guess that depends on the type of person that's on the bottom. >> sure. and how well trained they are in mma, right? >> i don't know if you have to be trained, i'm sure some other things come into play. i don't know. >> yet the person on top in that dominant position then has his arms free, right? >> correct. >> they might have the person on the bottom's arms actually under his knees in that position, right? >> i'm going to object to speculation vs. at the scene or mma, in general. >> well, at the scene, speculation sustained, as to mma, i think you need the lay a better -- >> sure. you have watched mma fights enough to know what ground and pound positions are, right? >> sure. >> in certain ground and pound positions the person in the dominant position on top can get
the guys on the bottom's arms under his knees so he virtually has free access to reign blows down upon him, right? >> well, i would think that would mean his arm is above his head or close to his head, but, no, i don't know. >> okay. >> nonetheless, the person on too much has his arms free, correct? >> correct. >> now let's go to this case that night that you saw the person you now know to be trayvon martin was on top, correct? >> correct. >> he was the one who was reigning blows down on the person on the bottom, george zimmerman, right? >> that's what it looked like. >> okay. >> now i said a moment ago, you were little, because you couldn't actually see fist hit face, right? >> no. >> because it was blocked by what? >> i didn't say it was blocked. i said it was dark out. >> okay. >> and you were looking at trayvon martin's back, right, wasn't that what was towards you? >> incorrect. on the sidewalk, their side to me, because they're laying on the sidewalk, which would be going lateral to my house.
>> oh, that's right. by the time they got to the sidewalk, they had sort of moved into a position where it was a little bit more you could see what would have been george's left side or right side? >> it would have been his right arm. >> okay. his right arm was towards you and trayvon martin's left side would have been a bit more towards you, is that right? >> correct. >> that's when you saw him striking down. >> that's when it looked like, yes, arm movement going downward. >> how many times would you think? >> i have no idea. as soon as i saw the movement going downward, that's when i turned around and went back inside. >> that's when you knew it was serious? >> yes, it looked serious and someone wasn't playing around. >> that's when you could hear george zimmerman screaming for help? >> correct. >> when was that? >> it was when i saw the person under someone on top. >> i apologize for not asking the question the right way, when was the first time that you heard the person on the bottom
scream for help? >> when i initially went outside, i didn't see a second person, then i could see a second person and it sounded like it was coming from the person on the bottom, because usually when someone is on top the person on the bottom is the one screaming or yelling. and that was when i heard that, but i didn't hear anything after. okay. and balancing, you are trying to be literal and tell us exactly what you remember observing and using your common sense. do you think it was the person on the bottom who was screaming for help? >> i mean, rationally thinking, i would think so. >> as a matter of fact, i think you said in response to mr. dearionda's question, had it been mr. martin, it would have bounce off the wall. >> i think it would sound different. that's why in my head i thought it was coming from the person on the bottom.
>> the sound you heard was sounding like a person screaming from 15 or 17 feet away almost directly at you, right? >> it sound like it was coming towards me, correct. >> okay. >> now, and i'm sorry to jump back to that, i apologize. so they now moved up. they are now on the true ground and pound position. and mr. dea rionda made histrionics of what you did hear and didn't hear. did you hear something like this? >> no. >> okay. >> could something like that have happened without you being able to hear it? >> objection. recollection. >> sustained. >> were you paying attention to the noise of the ground and pound that you were watching? >> probably not. i was just seeing to make sure if it was serious or not and that's when i went back inside. . best creation ever!
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>> you can testify if he knows. >> sure. >> can you repeat the question? >> sure. do you remember listening, i tell you what, here's what we'll do. i will let you listen to miss lowry's could again. i want you to when you are listening to it. i want you to think through, i will tell you that 45 seconds into the phone call you are going to hear the gunshot. so be ready for. that because i want you to then testify what you remember seeing sort of in time line with when you remember hearing the shot, okay. >> i wouldn't be able to hear you. >> we will hear the tape. we will go from there. if i might have a moment to set that up, your honor.
. >> just for record purpose, your honor, i will identify the exhibit number in just a moment. this is, of course the evidence of miss lowry's telephone call put into evidence. thank you very much. >> whenever you are ready. >> sure. >> 911, police, fire or local? >> it may be both, i'm not sure. there is someone screaming outside. >> what's the address that they're near? >> it's in sanford. >> yes. >> is it a male or female in. >> it sound like a male. >> you don't know why? >> i don't know why, i think they're yelling help, but i
don't know. please send someone. >> does he look hurt? >> i can't see him. i want to go out there. i can't tell. >> they're sending. ah ahh. >> what did you -- >> there's gunshots. >> you just heard gunshots? >> yes. >> okay. you heard the gunshot towards the end in the recording? >> yes. >> okay. and i know again from different perspectives, but, with your knowledge of the information in this case, that was the same gunshot that you heard from inside your house? >> it didn't sound the same. it sound more like a rock hitting my window, i was inside. >> with the knowledge of the case you know it was a gunshot? >> yes. >> it sounded much different from across the street if you will across the pathway inside
miss louder's apartment, correct? >> correct. >> you didn't hear your voice on that tape, though, did you? >> no. >> you, obviously, did say what you said to them, correct? >> correct. >> and the mere fact that it doesn't show up on the tape doesn't suggest that you didn't say it, does it? >> i know what i said. >> okay. >> this wasn't recorded on the tape? >> they're also talking about someone that's probably inside their house and i'm -- around the corner. >> i'm not challenging you. miss louder said she heard you as well. we aren't challenging you what you said or not, just that it wasn't on the tape. use tag gunshot as a reference point. i want to sort of take back in time just a little bit. why you before the call, a few seconds before the call is when you turned around and went back
inside your condo or your town home, is that accurate? >> you said a few seconds before i made the call? >> before the gunshot. so using the gunshot as a point of reference, because you remember hearing the gunshot when you were dialing 911, correct? >> i was inside, correct. >> i was trying to go backwards in time if you don't mind me trying it this way. you know the gunshot you heard here was the gunshot you heard, correct? let's just go back and when that gun shot happens, you were on the phone to 911. >> i was waiting for someone to pick me up, correct. >> then, of course, we heard your 911 call that says, just heard a gunshot. >> correct. >> so your 911 call starts after the gunshot, correct? >> correct. >> and it was only a few seconds before that gun shot that you were outside looking at that
time two individual in the ground and pound positioning? >> correct. >> you are certain, are you not, that it was a person on the bottom who was yelling to you? >> not 100% certain. >> i'm sorry? >> not 100% certain. but it did sound like it was coming from the person on the bottom. >> when you say not 100%, i want to launch into that a little bit. again, knowing that you want to be literal and very cautious with what you testify to, but using your common sense, when you were listening to the sound of the yelling, where was it coming from? >> it sounded like the person on the bottom. >> and was it coming as though it was coming straight towards you unobstructed? >> i would say yes.
>> could you relate any of those two "helps" or how many "helps" did you hear? >> it could have been one, two, possibly three. i think it was only a few. >> okay. just a few. >> could you relate those now that you have listened to this tape where that you may have heard those yelps or "helps" on this tape? >> no. >> the yells that you heard, however, or the "helps" you heard, however there were, it was always the same voice? >> all right, we will take a break. we will be back from florida. this is my favorite one.
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. >> all right let's head back to florida, the witness is indicating trayvon martin was the man on top, george zimmerman was the man on the bottom, now, mark o'mara, george zimmerman's defense attorney is asking him who was crying for help, let's listen. >> when was the first time that you noticed mr. zimmerman's clothing? >> just as i just stated.
>>. >> i'm sorry, i didn't hear you. >> just as i stated right before in that very initial. >> okay. >> then you could see that he was wearing red? >> it was a different color than the person on top was wearing, yesterday, red or white. >> so going through now for a moment your statements and who you first spoke with and when. you first had an opportunity to speak to, do you recall the first person that you did? >> what do you mean by speak to? >> write out a statement? >> that would have been the police. >> i'm sorry. >> that would have been the police. >> okay. do you recall filling out a
handwritten statement, yourself? >> yes. >> and any, do you perceive any inkipt consistencies in your testimony today and what you wrote out on the statement? >> i would say the only thing i did was clarify. >> today? >> or in any other statements they had from that first one. >> okay. >> you were consist back then that the, there was a straddle position where the person on top was straddling the person on the bottom in the red and the person on the bottom was getting hit was yelling help, correct? >> i didn't mean to say they were yelling "help" while they were getting hit. that was clarifying and also what was being done was clarified. >> gotcha. and then, you also talked to investigator serino? >> correct. >> that was that same day? >> later that night. >> okay.
you gave him a, an oral or a recorded statement, correct? >> correct. >> and it was in that statement the same day that you described the straddle position as being an mma style, correct? >> correct. >> it was that very night when the words ground and pound first were talked about, correct? >> correct. >> and then you also talked to the media, actually, found you out, didn't they, i think the next day or two? >> they came to my house every day and pretty much harassed us for the next six months. >> until you realized you could close the door and not answer, you answered one door knock and they sort of had a reporter there talking to you behind the
door, do you remember that? >> that was the next morning, correct. >> mm-hmm. similarly, you told them the same thing that we've talked to them today the guy in the bottom in the red was getting beat up, correct? >> correct. >> andals as well, saying that at that point that he was yelling consider help? >> correct. >> a month later john bachelor spoke to you at an extended interview, where he went over that information? >> i had another interview with serino. >> you are right. again, except for clarifying what was happening, inconsistencies with the story you gave the first night, correct? >> just clarifying. >> then we get to john bachelor's conversation?
>> correct. >> he went into greater detail, correct, about what happened? >> excuse me? >> he went into pretty good detail with you about what happened? >> in detail of what happened from my point of view? yes. he had you explain a lot about it. >> yes. >> and again, everything in there you still stand by was consistent with what you've told us here today and every other statement you have given, correct? >> yes. >> tell me why you initially thought that this just, tell me why you initially thought this
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so i know how important that is. ♪ . >> all right, welcome back. testimony is continuing from the neighbor john good, who was on his back patio. he witnessed two men fighting that night. the defense attorney mark o'mara is now asking him if he can describe the clothing the two men wore. i can't hear exactly right now if the questioning is ongoing. i wanted to dip in and ask sonny about this because this witness seems especially damaging to the prosecution, but he's a prosecution witness. >> reporter: that's right. and i think we all knew from discovery what this witness was going to say. this is a classic prosecution-type strategy. you can't not call this witness because if you don't and the defense calls him, you will
appear as if you are hiding something. what you do, do is what the state did, you call him in his case in cheap. you frame the narrative the way you need to frame the narrative and book end that witness with other witnesses. we know that yesterday, one of the other witness, i believe selma mora testified to the exact opposite. she testified that trayvon martin was on the bottom and george zimmerman was on the top. we suggest we will hear another witness that will claim also that trayvon martin was on the bottom. again, this is a technique. this is a very, very good witness for the defence. the defense knows it. the state knows it. and everyone knew that going into trial. >> he seems to be a rock steady witness, though. he's not changing his story. although, as the questioning continues from the defense, she adding more and more damaging details. >> reporter: and he never has really changed as far as i can tell from reading the discovery. he's never changed his account. this is a witness that everyone
knew about and this is the only witness, however, that does say it was george zimmerman that was on the bottom screaming for help rather than trayvon martin. >> so as a page of the defense attorney, is the defense celebrating this moment? ed. >> reporter: sonny is exactly right. it's a difficult choice. most prosecutors will call this witness in their case in chief. because they know the jury will hear from this witness. do they present him or do they let the defense lawyers present him and suggest the state was hiding something. but you did notice the prosecution did at least get from this witness that he was unable to perceive anyone slamming anyone's head into the concrete. so they got one piece of good evidence from him. >> jason johnson, i'm looking at comments on my facebook page and on my twitter account. most of the people obviously on trayvon martin's family side during this proceeding are really upset with this witness. >> yeah. but i think it's because most people's understanding of law
and courtrooms comes from law and order of the first 48. this is what happens when you have a trial, you are going to have people that sound like they help the prosecution. will you have people that sound like they help the defense. it's a long process. no one person or witness is going to spin this one way or another. certainly not a jury o'of six women. >> all right. let's listen to the testimony again. >>. >> no objections? . >> no objection, your on o honor. >> it will come in as defense exhibit number 19. >> again, may i approach, your honor? >> yes, you may. >> can you identify this as a blow-up of a skrech you prepared? >> yes, it's my horrible stick physicals. >> okay. well, in addition to not lo knowing how long you are married, we know your artistic abilities. let's do this, if you would, explain to the jury what you
intended to do with this sketch and what it depicts. >> what i tried to do is say the door and the house i came out of was, where they first were, who was on top, who was on bottom. then where it moved to. >> the clarify, this is your patio area? >> yes. >> this is your perspective, you were looking out at this scene here first? >> first, correct. >> this scene really belongs here, just later in time, is that? >> yeah, i mean, it's a progressive, supposedly supposed to be a progressive picture. >> right. so this is what you are looking at from here to here first? >> correct. >> and from here to here second. although this path is actually the same path, correct? >> correct. >> the third one is where, away from where i saw him on the second part the body ended up. >> so tell me the legend, if you
would, tell me, explain what you were indicating with this? >> this is depicting them laying how i was stating earlier. the one on the blacktop on top the one on the red and white on bottom. >> okay. >> then it moves to the sidewalk, laying this way. >> okay. the black shirt on top and the red shirt on bottom. >> okay. is this now where they're in the straddle position? >> correct. >> with trayvon martin on top? >> yeah, i could not draw that. >> that's fine. i just want to orient the jury to that's what we are talking about? >> yes. >> and then, tell me what this number three is right here. >> three is when i went upstairs while i was still on the phone with 911 and looked down and the body was, i don't know, it's not in the same position i left him in. >> they were closer. they had part of the bodies on the cement pathway, correct?
>> they were on the sidewalk, yes, the body was closer to where i was at. >> so when you looked out, did you look out from upstairs? >> upstairs. >> then you saw trayvon martin's body, correct? between the pathway and your complex, i'm sorry, your townhome? >> correct. >> and i see you have again a stick physical. have you seen the photographs taken of trayvon martin as he lay just after the shot? >> i do not believe so. >> would you defer, did you know it, did you see anyone move the body at all on the path you saw? >> i believe i saw him flip him. he was laying face down, flip him over, try to give him cpr. >> when you first saw him from upstairs, he was laying face down? >> correct. >> did you see the other person? >> he was on the sidewalk. >> okay. >> standing up. >> okay. did you see anybody else, the
man with the flashlight? >> that's when the guys with the flashlights came around the corner. >> okay. so, from the time of the gunshot when you were just on the phone calling 911 to the time you looked out to see trayvon martin's body in the position you just described it and george zimmerman walking about, about how long was that delay? >> i don't know. i'm sure if you suppliesed the phone call, you could figure it out to the t. >> if we look at your phone call, you sort of acknowledge, having just heard the gunshot, correct? >> mm-hmm. >> you acknowledge, i see someone outside, correct? >> correct. >> that's about the time line that you would say was accurate? >> that's when i'm walking upstairs, yes. >> having heard the gunshot, walk upstairs. tell me, if you would, i'm sorry. tell us if you would, you hear a gunshot when you are dialing
911, then tell me your movement until you get to an area where you can see trayvon martin's body. >> it was a walk-in movement upstairs as i was trying to spell out twin trees three times and when i finally made it to the bathroom area is when i looked down, we have a window. that's when i saw the body. >> okay. i'm going to ask to you do it a little slower. were you actually still on the a staircase, were you dialing 911? >> i was possibly heading up at the time when i finally got ahold of them. >> you continued walking, got out. did you go into one of the back bedrooms? >> the master bedroom. >> is there a balcony, some window out there? >> there is a window in the bathroom and the actual room. >> which window did you look out? >> i believe it was the bathroom window. >> okay. again, it is what it is, but could it have been one of the two windows?
>> i believe it was the bathroom window. >> we will defer the exact timing, do you remember when you were on the phone with the 911 operator that you said something acknowledging that you had just seen the body at the time you saw it? >> i don't understand the question. >> yeah, i kept rolling on, i apologize. if we're going to listen to the 911 tape, on that tape, there is a time when you say, there's somebody outside and i think he's dead. >> mm-hmm. >> was that the precise moment or close in time to when you saw the body you described? >> that's when i looked down. >> you saw him. >> we can defer to the tape pretty much from the exact time delay to when you heard the shot and saw the body? >> not the exact time the shot was fired. from when i stated, i just heard a shot within i was on the phone with him, yes. >> if i might have a moment,
your honor. >> you may. >> all right. while the attorneys are discussing things, let's bring in sonny hosti ni. this witness has been on the stand, nearly two hours now. which is stunning because you'd think they'd gotten all the information out of him they could possibly get. >> well the defense is going to keep this witness on the stand as long as possible because, again, this is a defense witness. this is a witness that is very, very good for the defense. he is accurate or rather i should say he's speaking in a very, a very good tone. he seems to be very credible. they want him to stay there and that's what we are seeing. they are going to try to flesh out his testimony as much as possible. remember, he's on cross examination. not even on direct examination. so the defense can really frame
the narrative by asking him these leading questions. this is a very good position for the defense to be in. i would say even though the defense hasn't even put its case on, this is the star witness for the defense at this point. >> all right. i was going to ask jason johnson that very question, when you compare this witness to rachel jeantel, how do you think the jury will per steve two? >> it's that john good is much more reliable and credible. there are people that will judge rachel jeantel because of her age and race and how she spoke. i think the strongest thing that john good brings to the table is he's not letting anybody put words in his mouth, so consistency is the biggest thing that the jury happen to be looking for, he is probably one of the best. i have to point out, there was another witness yesterday who said she thought it was trayvon martin, she's one of the people that called. this trial is not over. i don't think any side should be
cheering yet. >> last to you, paige, what will the prosecution do or will they have this witness have his say and move onto the next? >> again, that's what they should do. again, this is a gift to the attorney, walk through that direct testimony again, draw it out. let the jury hear those words come back, ground and pound, use words like that to stick in the jury's mind the prosecutor needs to go back to his case in chief, start calling other witnesses and hopefully build his case back up for his side. >> thanks to all of you, that will do it for me. we will continue to cover this trial live for you. we will take a break. we will be back with much more in the newsroom. anyone have occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating? yes!
. >> and a good friday morning to you. there is no shortage of action in the courtroom featuring florida versus george zimmerman. what you are watching right now is the prosecutor in this case. he has stood up for a second time this morning to examine the witness who is on the stand. this is what you call an eyewitness, folks. there have been several who have taken that stand in this case so far. this one gives an account that perhaps this prosecutor would prefer not to showcase. but you take your witnesses the ways you get them. that's how it operates. this is the kind of witness this prosecutor has to try the best he can to make sounds like he could be a prosecution witness instead of the defense witness. so far, not much luck. this is redirect.