tv CNN Newsroom CNN July 1, 2013 11:00am-1:01pm PDT
>> i didn't have any information that i could have possibly given. >> and there were no other police report already generated that you may have seen? >> nothing had been generated so far. >> is it accurate to say that this was in one sense the virgin interview where you were getting all the information from him that you could though you had nothing even no corroborate or to dispute what he was telling you? >> that is correct. >> you had mentioned, and i'll skip around the time line a little bit, the entirety of your enter action with mr. zimmer ma was on the tape, correct? small bits that were not? >> a little bit before i could get it started. introductions to each other when i walked in the room i'm sure.
and something that may have been said as i walked out. >> sure. the substance of it we've all heard from the tape itself? >> yes. >> and as to that interview, you do don't have a great deal of testimony that you can offer the jish exce jury except to listen it to the tape? >> pretty much, yes. >> so why are we questioning you. we'll try to move it along, but obviously as you know we want to set the stage properly. anything that may have some inquiry, and we will move forward. >> okay. >> let's go to one of the parts that were talked to about concerning what wasn't on the tape. that was the part about whether or not you were catholic or
christian. and i wanted to spend a moment on that, if i might. he noticed your cross and asked if you were catholic? >> yes. >> and he told you he was catholic? >> i don't know that he said he was catholic. he asked if i were catholic and i told him that i wasn't. so i assumed that he was catholic. >> and then you told him you were christian and his response was what again? >> because in the catholic religion, it is always wrong to kill somebody. >> and your response to that -- >> was that if what you're telling me is truthful, then i don't believe that that is what god means when he means to kill somebody. >> is it your opinion if what he was telling you is true -- presuming that it was true, is your suggestion then to comfort him? >> to let him know if he was being truthful, that he was in
fear for his life and he had to kill trayvon, that i don't believe that was what god meant. >> and i think it was just after that that you had said that trayvon martin was not identified yet? >> we did not know who he was at the time. >> and that was when you communicated that to george zimmerman, correct? >> i don't know if it was directly at that same moment, but, yes, we spoke about not being able to know who the victim was. or may a statement, i don't know what it was in response to, that we hadn't yet identified the victim. >> and his response was that he didn't even realize that trayvon martin had passed, correct? >> he gave me like a blank stare on his face and said what do you mean you don't know the victim. i said we don't know who he is.
and he said he's dead? and i said -- i asked -- i said to him i thought you knew that. >> at which point he sunk his head down looking down to the floor? >> towards the table. >> on the table. and shook his head, no? >> something like this. like he was just -- >> what did that evidence to you? i believe that he didn't realize that he was dead based on what i seen, but i don't want to spec laz what it meant beyond that. i'm not sure. >> there were questions on the tape about him needing medical care. that was a concern of his, was
it not, at least at one point? >> yes, at one point he wasn't sure. >> but it was such that you talked about it and he was willing to continue with the interview rather than go to the hospital, correct? >> yes. >> did that cause you any concern? >> no, only because they had already seen him and i assumed they said it was okay for him to to on come to the police department if he had. >> during the interview with you, and i know that you would defer to the tape, but since you were the one sort of the three dimensional with him there, did he evidence that he was angry with trayvon martin? >> no. >> that he had hatred for him? >> no. >> spite or ill will? >> no. >> that he had anything that would suggest to you some type of bad attitude towards trayvon martin? >> no. >> rather, he seemed to be
affected by the fact that he realized trayvon martin had passed? >> he seemed affected by that. >> aside from officer tim smith, you were really the first officer to have a detailed conversation or any conversation with him about this case, right? >> yes. >> and that was about -- tell us again if you can if you recall the timing of it. >> i believe i was called about 8:00. so probably to 9:00 maybe i was speaking to him. >> and if this happened at 7:15, 7:30 and he was transported after being seen by medical, gout to him within an hour and a half of the event? >> i believe so. >> do you know if he had contact with anybody else besides sanford police department?
>> i don't know. i only know what was told to me. >> and that was -- >> rescue, police, that was all i knew about. >> of course he was not arrested. he was in police control or custody literally from the scene forward, was he not? >> yes. >> and his phone was taken from him? >> yes. >> mention was made -- first of all, you took the taped statement, correct, and we've heard that. and then you asked him to do a written statement. why have both? >> i believe i was asked to -- i believe chris serino had asked to have it on a written statement, as well. >> if you get within an inch or so or five inches back, we can't
hear. so there's a range in there that you can try to stay in. >> i'll try. >> thank you. you've had a chance to look at both of those statements, correct? >> yes. p. >> and of course you heard the tape today and you even had to read the second one today, correct? >> i don't recall reading -- having read the written one prior to today. >> but you just read it today. >> yes. >> in nine years or so of law enforcement experience, did you notice any significant inconsistencies in those two statements? >> significant, no. >> but there were certainly some is this. >> i'm sure there are some. >> is that expected in your business? >> yes. most people don't tell you the same story the same way twice each time. >> why is that? just telling a story you don't get it the same every time.
>> so would you consider them to be significantly different such that you thought that he was lying on one or fudging on one? >> i couldn't have made the determination then because i hadn't read the statement back then. right now, i don't, i don't see anything significant. >> so in your experience with taking multiple statements from a witness, stips there are differences? >> yes. >> how about witnesses who have gone through traumatic effects, does that affect their ability to recount stories? >> yes, as well as the same event being viewed by two different people is sometimes different. >> and how does a traumatic event affect their ability to retell stories multiple times? >> i'm not sure how it works, i just know that it happens. >> you were present during investigator serino's statement, as well. well, the statement he gave to
officer serino, as well. >> correct. >> and did you notice significant differences in that statement compared to these two? >> not significant, no. >> but some minor changes? >> some minor differences, yes. >> and do you recall what they were? >> i remember one where he told me that he walked away and when we listened to the tape, he said he had ran away. >> and he you're talking about at one point he told you, he being george zimmerman, told you that trayvon martin walked away? >> walked between the houses. >> yes a review of let's say investigator serino's statement suggests that he told investigator serino that trayvon martin had run away and that's a difference that you you noticed? >> right. and that's what he had said on the dispatch was that he ran. >> and we know from previous
evidence that the dispatch non-emergency call sut suggestst he ran away. >> yes. >> is it a difference that you noted? >> yes. >> consider that to be significant? >> no. >> why not? >> because i just assumed that he had come in and out of view at least twice according to him. whether or not he was running or walking, i don't think was significant. >> do you attach -- when you look at different statements and determine whether or not the differences are significant, do you attach to those differences whether or not they help tell a narrative that might be beneficial to the witness or opposed to another witness, is that part what have you look at? >> yes, that's part of what we look at. >> so if running or walk isn't significant to the overall
narrative, it doesn't seem to be you you to be a significant difference? >> it had been prior to -- the running and walking occurred prior to when we know on the 911 call he had lost sight of him. so it wouldn't have changed anything. so that's why. i didn't feel it was that important. >> when he he said he wasn't sure of the street name, did that cause you concern? gr i felt as a neighborhood watch person he would have known the names of the streets, yes. >> so tell me what you thought about that. >> i was wondering if he was wanting to get out of the car. >> and have you had a chance to go down by the scene to see whether or not there was street signs at that area? >> i know there is no treat signs where he said that he
parked. >> were there any questions that you asked him or any changes in his story along the way that caused you concern? >> not significantly, no. >> you've had those cases, haven't you, where witnesses are telling you a story, you might question them a little bit and then all of a sudden they remember a whole different fact? >> yes. >> i didn't of that happen here? >> no. >> when he told you that trayvon martin got up or said something
to to him, words like he got me or words to that effect, did that surprise you? >> no. >> and when he said that he had gotten on on top of -- >> we'll pull away just for a quick second. you're watching live continuous coverage here out of sanford, florida of the george zimmerman trial. we'll be back live in just a moment. ♪ and i'll never desert you ♪ ♪ i'll stand by you yeaaaah! yeah. so that's our loyalty program. you're automatically enrolled, and the longer you stay, the more rewards you get. great! oh! ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ won't let nobody hurt you ♪ isn't there a simpler way to explain the loyalty program? yes. standing by you from day one. now, that's progressive.
let's get you back to live coverage. in terms of what you've missed in the last two minutes, this is again on the stand cross-examination here the lead defense attorney questioning the detective who was the one who read george zimmerman his miranda rights and also conducted the police interview. so she's describing how george zimmerman described trayvon martin using the word suspect.
>> do you consider that to be a significant concern or just him attempting to explain things for you? >> i didn't think that was suggest because he said it was dark out there. >> you've seen some of the pictures out there that night, right? >> yes. >> would you agree if i use the term pitch black that it was pretty much pitch blackout there? >> yes. >> and you know that there are no -- first of all, you know there are bushes out there. >> there are pushes i believe on the ends of the buildings. >> could i have just a moment, your honor. >> and also i believe there are bushes away some of the people who have air conditioners, they go around, i believe, bushes in those areas, as well. i could h
and moved into evidence. for he's ease of use, i have th right here. >> composite exhibit or individually? >> individual. >> if there is in objection, i don't know which one you're hand to go the clerk first, it will be defense exhibit 21, the second one defense exhibit 22. >> thank you, your honor. may i approach the witness? >> yes, you may. >> officer singleton, i'll show you pictures not of the scene that night but the next day and ask if you this is what you're it familiar with. i'll show you both 22 and 21 because they're of a similar area. is that what you're talking about? >> yes. i believe there is probably an air conditioner back here and this shows the he saend of buil.
>> if you could identify the number. >> 144 -- this one, 22. okay. i believe there is probably an air conditioner back here. so there are some bushes there. and then this is the end of the building. and there are bushes along the wall. >> and to be sure the jury -- there are similar locations on exhibit 21? >> here and here. >> and further down in front of each unit, correct? >> yes. each unit has bushes around the air conditioners from what i can tell in that picture. >> and the bushes did not have any lights in them? >> no, there are no lights in the bushes. >> there was not a concern of yours that mr. zimmerman first said he may have come out of bushes and then said not exactly sure where he came from?
>> right. >> did that seem to be a difference that could cause you any concern whatsoever? >> no. i was just looking at the bushes while we were out there trying to figure out this kid's pretty tall, like what bushes if he did come out of bushes would he must be coming from. >> would you agree with the pictures that we saw of that night that he could easily have simply just come out of the darkness? >> objection as to speculation. >> sustained. >> nothing fiurther then your honor. thank you. >> any redirect? >> wouldn't you agree that what's significant or not significant is up to the jury? >> sure. >> you have an opinion based on what he asked you. >> he asked me if my opinion. >> and wouldn't you agree what's important is what the jury believes, correct? >> it's important what they believe, yes. >> now isn't it true, ma'am, when mr. o'mara kept asking you questions that you have not been out to the scene at that time?
>> i had never gone to the scene >> isn't it also true that the defendant is telling you that he thought the person you now know, the 17-year-old boy, was alive, correct? >> object, your honor. >> sustained. >> the defendant told you i believe you told mr. o'mara that he said he was surprised to learn that trayvon martin was alive? >> he didn't say that. >> how did he react when you told him he was dead? >> he said he's dead. >> and that left you an impression that he thought he was alive? >> that was my impression that i believe that he thought that he was of a live. >> and the defendant in his statements to you told you that he was scared of the defendant, of mr. zimmerman -- i'm sorry, of trayvon martin? >> object. miskrablgtization of t krablgk t
missakt characterization of the evidence. >> i'll rephrase. mr. zimmer mman claims that he s being bashed, his head was being bashed into the concrete? >> slammed in to the concrete about that. >> and he had to shoot the person you you now know as trayvon martin? >> that's what he said he did. >> you weren't there. you don't know if that's true or not. >> no, i don't know whether that's true or not. >> but he told you-of-at some point you told him that the victim was actually dead, correct? >> yes. >> and how did he react? >> shocked. >> again quick break. we'll take you back in just a second. ut the land than probably anyone else. we've had this farm for 30 years. we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living and that's how we can pass the land and water back to future generations. people should make up their own mind what's best for them.
let's go back into the courtroom. >> you are speculating, correct? >> which question? >> all the questions he asked you you about whether you knew mr. zimmerman the defendant had ill will, hatred or angry at trayvon martin. you don't -- you aren't able to get into mr. zimmerman's mind, were you? >> no. >> you weren't able to get into his mind as to why he followed this person, were you? >> only what he told me. >> so you didn't know what he was in his heart or his mind at the time he sought ought or to use his words followed the 17-year-old unarmed boy? >> i only knew what he told me. use his words followed the 17-year-old unarmed boy? >> i only knew what he told me.e his words followed the 17-year-old unarmed boy? >> i only knew what he told me. >> you were also asked about whether there was an eyewitness or not there.
you hpt interviewed anybody up to the point you interviewed the defendant, had you? >> no, i didn't speak to anybody prior to zimmerman. >> mr. o'mara asked you you abo about the recorded screaming. >> yes. >> mr. zimmerman told you that he saw people out there, correct? >> yes. it. >> so he had to to have known if somebody was screaminging, whether him or somebody else,
somebody would have heard it? >> someone potentially heard it because they came out and said he seen them. he said he seen at least one person. >> the defendant is claiming that it was him. you can't say whether it was him or not, can you? >> i'm sorry, i don't understand. >> you can't say that it was mr. zimmerman when was screaming for help. >> i can't say that, no. >> thank you. let's take another quick break. you're watching continuous coverage of the george zimmerman trial as he is facing second-degree murder here. back in a moment. ference of the. hi! hi, buddy! that's why the free wifi and hot breakfast are something to smile about. book a great getaway now and feel the hamptonality
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you may rarely look at it. but you'll always feel it. this is our signature. and it means everything. i tthan probablycare moreanyone else.and we've had this farm for 30 years. we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living and that's how we can pass the land and water back to future generations. people should make up their own mind what's best for them. all i can say is it has worked well for us.
let me bring you back. we're watching together the george zimmerman trial. and it's interesting, i want to bring in both of my lawyers this hour. we've all been watching. just interesting conversing with you as everyone else is sitting here watching this live. so right now you have both defense and prosecution have approached the bench. they're talking to the judge.detective is on the stand for the bulk of the day. so they're trying to figure out if they want to keep her subpoenaed presumably. >> yes. whether she's free to go or to remain under subpoena and not talk about her testimony to anybody else. >> they may not be finished with her. here is the other point i want to make and then we'll take you
back live. i thought it was interesting when you all were watching the state redirect this witness, supposed to be their witness, and you both looked at each other and you said how hostile he seems to be. why is that a surprise? >> normally the police are for the prosecution and don't need to be cross-examined by the prosecutor. normally the defense attorney is the one doing all the cross-examining. in this case it seems like the prosecutor is cross-examining their own witness. >> you were saying in spite of the witness. >> that's right. they will try to win their case in spite of their own witnesses. remember, in this case the police chose not to charge george zimmerman. a d.a. from another county decided in a press conference to charge him. >> up next on the stand, this is detective chris serino. he was again one of the lead detectives on on the case. let's see what he says. because a lot of these questions are specific to george
zimmerman's glean or tdemeanor that this happened. how he felt toward trayvon martin this evening. let's listen. >> what are your current duties? >> patrol officer. >> and how long have you been a patrol officer this time? i know you've gone back and forth. >> i believe since july or august of last year. >> back in february of 2012, were you you assigned to the investigative division or minlg cri major unit? >> yes. >> how many tours have you done in that unit? >> it's a lateral transfer position. this is my third tour back there. >> i want to draw your attention to february 26 of 2012. were you the on call investigator and did you respond to the retreat at twin lakes? >> yes, sir, i believe. >> approximately what time do you believe you got there? >> approximately 8:00 p.m..
>> and were when you arrived there, were there officers already present? >> yes, sir. >> was the body of the person later identified to you as trayvon benjamin martin still at the scene? >> yes. >> and was the person who shot trayvon martin, that is george zimmerman, still at the scene when you arrived? >> no, he was not. >> did you remain at the scene and later go to the sanford police department? >> yes, sir. >> at the scene did you speak to officers there? >> yes, sir, i did. >> and did you also meet with witnesses? >> yes, sir, i did. >> when you first arrived, had the body of trayvon martin been identified? >> no, he had not. >> at that time you didn't know who he was or whether he even lived in that area, is that correct? >> no, sir, we didn't know.
>> were attempts made to identify him at the scene? >> yes. >> and you can briefly tell us how that was done? >> by facial recognition of officers that were there, by canvassing the area of potential people that may have known who he was. we ultimately were able to obtain a life scan device and we checked his finger prints to's if they were on file in our database. and we had no results. >> so everything was neglect it difference in terms of being able to identify the person you know as trayvon martin? >> yes, sir, all attempts were negative. >> his name did not appear in your records? >> yes, sir. >> later that evening, did you he said up going it to the sanford police department? >> yes, i did. >> and do you recall exactly what time you got there? >> it was around midnight. >> when you came into the
sanford police department, did you end up having contact with the person now known to you as george zimmerman? >> yes, i did. >> can you please identify by stating where he's sitting and the clothing he's wearing? >> at the defense table. >> when you came into contact with the defendant, were you aware that he already had been interviewed by investigator singleton? >> yes, sir. >> and did you have a very brief interview with him right after midnight? >> yes, i did. >> was that interview recorded in terms of an audio recording?
>> yes, sir, it was. >> for purposes of the record, i believe we did introduce thathe 179. defense docounsel has no objection. >> state's exhibit 179. >> today's date is monday, february 27th, 2012. it's now 12:05 a.m., we're at the sanford police department. present in the room with george zimmerman, correct? >> yes, sir. >> date of birth? >> 10-5. >> education? >> associate's.
>> in what? okay. you understand that you're not quite free to go but not quite going on jail? >> yes. >> just for the record i'm showing you. do you recognize this face? >> no, sir. >> i don't know who he is. briefly, i'll give you what i got. you were going to the store. >> yes, sir. >> and you saw somebody who you felt to be suspicious? >> yes, sir. >> this this suspicious person, you decided to call 911? >> yes, sir. the non-emergency number. >> the non-emergency number? >> yes, sir. >> reported a suspicious person? >> yes. >> you you followed this person?
>> yes, sir. >> you lost visual on the person? >> yes, sir. >> where did the whole thing start at? >> the circle. >> tomorrow morning daylight hour, do you work? >> yes. >> when do you get off work? >> 5:00. >> when do you start? >> 9:00. sbl okay. 5:00 p.m. tomorrow, can you call me so we can walk through the scene entirely? >> yes, sir. i'm taking a class. >> which university? what time does the class start? >> 6:30. >> we could probably do this in half an hour. i want to retrace your path. i want to videotape this. the difference between statutes
and homicide and justifiable homicide, you're familiar with what we're talking about here, right? okay. you followed this person, you cited this person. you're you can wag in the darkness. you have a flashlight? >> it was dead. i had one, but it was dead. >> it's on right now. you have to hit it a couple times. this person jumped you from somewhere? >> yes, sir. >> from the darkness. >> yes, sir. >> did he say anything to you? >> yes, sir. >> what did he say? >> when he came up to me, he said you you got a problem. and i said no. and then i went to reach for my phone, find my phone to call 911. and then he said you got a problem and pumped purnl punch my face. my head. all over my head.
>> you were cleaned up already? because the officer said you were pretty much battered. >> yes, sir. >> you mounted you basically and started to get up on you? >> yes, sir. >> at what point -- >> after he hit my head against the concrete several times, i yelled out for help and he tried to smother my help. >> who yelled for help? >> i did. and he smothered my mouth and my nose. and when he did that, i tried to slide out and squirm. and i realized my shirt came up and i felt him slide his happened toward my right side. >> you thought he was going for your gun? >> yes. >> an automatic? >> yes. >> what kind of ammunition? >> i think it was hollow.
>> what happened next? >> i shout him. >> you cleared the holster and shot him one time? what happened next? >> he kind of got up and said you got me. i don't remember if i pushed him or he fell, but somehow i got out from under him. and when he was hitting me, i thought he had something in his hands. so i grabbed his hands when i was on top and i spread his hands away from his body because he was still talking. and i was on top of him. and that's when somebody came and they had a flashlight and i thought it was a police officer, so i got off of him. >> what was he saying when he was talking to you you? >> after you got me, i don't remember. >> you probably have a hard time
with this. that's all i can give you until tomorrow. you can get you help afterwards, but you have to fgo hope and ge some rest. so in your mind's eye, this person was committing no good. he jumped you, he attacked you, he reached if your gun, you discharged, only shot once. police arrived, you surrendered and here you are. >> he told me he was going to kill you. >> exactly. okay. >> may i approach the witness?
>> sir, i want it draw your attention to february 27th. did you later come into contact with the defendant george zimmerman at the retreat of twin lakes? >> jesyes, sir, i did. >> were you present when the defendant was put this a car with sergeant randy smith and you followed with investigator singleton and then later end up at the defendant actually gets out of the vehicle and demonstrates to you or describes what he claims occurred? >> yes, sir. >> have you reviewed that video? >> yes, i have. >> for the record, your honor, it's state's exhibit 181. and before we play it, we do have an instruction that we request the court to read at the time. it's entitled state's proposed jury instruction regarding redaction of defendant's
interview. >> ladies and gentlemen, at the direction of the court, certain portions of the defendant's interview with the sanford police department investigators have been excised or redacted based on legal determinations made by the court. the parts excised or redacted are not relevant and you you are not to concern yourselves with why this occurred or with the content. thank you. >> may we publish lithat to the jury now? >> you said this right here will
1136. >> right here in front of the house. >> in front of 1460. >> yes, sir. >> and he was walking in between the buildings? >> he was walking like in a grassy area like up towards kind of between these two poles. and it was rainy and he wasn wasn't-he was leisurely looking at the house. like i said, my wife -- i left for the grocery store and i just felt like something was off. i had called previously about this house. when the police arrived, i called the first time, the windows were open and the door was unlocked. police came and secured it. so i said it's better to just call and i kept driving. i passed him and he kept staring at me and staring around, looking around to see who else
was -- i don't know why he was looking. >> did he walk off from there or stop? >> he stopped. and he like looked around. that's what threw me off. it was raining. i didn't understand why somebody would be stopping in the rain. it wasn't like he was trying to run to get out of the run. and i had never seen him before. and i don't know if he was exercising -- >> where was he standing when you stopped? on the sidewalk? >> grass. >> right in front of where the car is? >> yes, sir. >> and then you -- >> i drove past him and went to the clubhouse. >> parked there? >> yes. >> and he called you up here or -- >> i called the non-emergency line and when i got through, i
parked at the clubhouse and they asked me where i was. and i told them and i think i gave him the address to the clubhouse. >> where did you park? >> up to that green truck. i don't think that truck was there. i just pulled up. >> and this is where got out? >> no. this is when i just stopped to to call, to call and -- and he walked past me. and he kept looking at my car. and still looking around at the houses and stuff. so then dispatcher said what direction did he go and i said i don't know. because he cut done hedon cut d made a right and i said i can't see him. and they said can you get to somewhere where you can see him. and i said, yeah, i can. so i backed out.
a left here. and i parked right about where that sign is in the yard. >> in front of the truck? >> yes. and i saw him right about there. and i saw him walking back that way and then cut through the back of the houses. he looked back and he cut back through the houses. i was still on the phone with non-emergen non-emergency. and then he came back and he started walking up towards the grass and then came down and circled my car. and i told the operator that. he was circling my car.
i didn't hear if he said anything. but he had his hand in his waistband. and positii think i told the of that. and they said where you are you. and i could not remember the name of the street. because i don't live on this street. and i said i don't know. and he goes we need an address. and i said i don't know an address. think i gave them my address. and they said give us directions to get to you. and i said if you tell the police to go straight at the clubhouse and make a left, my truck will be there. and again they asked me where he went, what direction. and i said i don't know. and then i thought to get out and look for a street sign. so i got out and started walking. >> okay. go ahead.
i was still on the phone with the nonmanage and-emergency and walking. because i didn't see a street sign here, but i knew if i went straight through, that that street should be circle. and i could give an address. they said give me an address in the front and there is no address because this i the back of the house. so i walked through here and i didn't see him at all. i got to about here and i had a flashlight. but it was dead, though. and i looked around and i didn't
see anybody. and i told non-emergency i said he's gone. he's not even here. so i still thought i could use their address, so i walked all the way through. and i actually walked all the way to the street. and i was going to give them this address. and he said if he's not there, do you still want a police officer. and i said yes. and they said are you following him? i'm sorry, back there, they said are you following him. and i said, yes, i thought he was in the area. they said we don't need you to do that. and i said okay. so that's when i walked straight through here to get the address so that i could meet the police officer. and then they said -- i said
he's not here. do you still want him to come and i said yes. and they said where. and i said just tell him to meet me at my truck flnext to the scb house. if he makes a left, i'm parked right there. so i started walking back. i didn't see anything again and i was walking back to my truck. when i got to right about here, he yelled from behind me to the side of me. he said, yo, you got a problem? and i turn around. i said, no, i don't have a problem, man. >> where was he at? >> he was about there, but he was walking towards me. like i said, i was already passed that, so i didn't see
exactly where he came from, but he was about where you are. and i said i don't have a problem. he said you got a problem now and then he punched me in the face. >> right here? >> to be honest, i don't remember exactly. i stumbled or he pushed me down. somehow he got on top of me. >> on the grass or the street? >> somewhere over here. i think i was trying to push him away from me. that's when i started screaming help, help, as loud as i could. and then is when he grabbed --
oh, i tried to sit up and that's when he grabbed me by the head and tried to slam my head down. my body was on the grass. my head was on the cement. that's the best that could i feel from my jacket. i felt like my body was on the grass and my head was on the cement. and he kept slamming and slamming. and i kept yelling help. and he put his hand on my nose. it felt like my head was going to explode and i thought i was going to lose consciousness. so i squirnl esquirm that had i but he had a portion of my head on the concrete. so i tried to squirm off the concrete. and when i did that, somebody here opened the door and i said
help me, help me. and they said i'll call 911. i said, no, help me. i need help. and i don't know what they did. but that's when my jacket came up and i had my firearm on my right side hip. and my jacket went up and he saw it, i feel like he saw it. he looked at it. he -- i just grabbed my firearm and shot it one time. >> after you shot him, what did he say? >> after i shot him, he like sat up. >> and you're still in this position? >> yes, sir. i was on top of me like this. and i didn't think i hit him because he sat up and said you got me, you got it, something like that.
so i thought he was just saying i know you have a gun, i heard it i'm giving up. so i don't know if i pushed him off me or he fell off me. either way, i got on top of him and pushed his arms apart. i don't know how i got on top. i'm sorry. but i put his arms apart. because he was hitting me in the face, the head. i thought he had something this his hands. so i moved his hands apart. >> you had him face down? >> yes, and i was on his back. and then somebody flashlight. i thought it was the police officer. and i said are you the police. and i still had my hands on him. my gun's right here. and he said, no, i'm not. i'm calling the police. i said don't call the police, help me restrain this guy. aepd i and he said i'm calling the
police. i said i already called, they're coming. i need your help. and that's when the police officer came around. i saw the police officer so i stood up. put my holster in the weapon. and i said who shot him. and i said i did. and i put my hands up. i said i did it. he just automatically turned my back to him and i lifted my shirt and i said my gun's right there. and i told him a few times, my gun's right there. and he goes okay, i understand. just keep your hands up. and he put the handcuffs on me. >> anything else? >> no, sir. >> you have no idea where he came from? you you never saw him? gr no, i didn't see him at all.
front door. i have a broken nose. they said i could get stitches, but she'd rather not put them in. as long as i didn't mess with my head. she said she didn't have to put stitches in right away. she gave me medicine and referral for ent because she said the swelling wouldn't let her do anything to my nose. but once the swelling went down, if i had a deviated septum, they
would be able to fix it, but nothing they could do right now. >> let's see what this person has to say. >> get your injuries documented if possible. >> i asked her for them. she made note. >> always better to say a couple word words. >> she said i have a -- >> always better to have s.i., something about my sciatic
>> i want to move now to february 29th. did you have further contact with the defendant? >> yes, i did. >> and was that at the police department? >> yes, it was. >> was an interview conducted much the defendant on that day? >> yes, it was. >> and were his miranda rights given by investigator singleton? >> yes. >> your honor, in terms of time frame, we'll have to it play a recording that's about 45 minutes or so. >> we'll recess before we begin the recording or just go forward? >> they're good. okay. >> at this time we would move into evidence state's exhibit 181 -- sorry. 182.
>> no objection. 182 will come into evidence. >> we would ask that the court read the same instructions. >> i need it from the clerk. ladies and gentlemen, at the direction of -- >> quick break. you've watched the last ten minutes or so. we weren't sure if it would be admitted, but we've seen the reenactment that george zimmerman gave. a lot to talk about with regard to this specific video and detective serino is not finished yet. back in a moment. at angie's list, you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. no company can pay to be on angie's list, so you can trust what you're reading. angie's list is like having thousands of close neighbors, where i can go ask for personal recommendations. that's the idea. before you have any work done, check angie's list. find out why more than two million members
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we'll show you live pictures, this is george zimmerman being remirandized. we're about to see the interrogation video. mike brooks, you've been watching all this with me. quick thoughts. >> so far all of his statements written and audio have been very consistent. so we'll see how it matches up with this particular interview. >> let's watch.
>> surprisingly well. [ inaudible ] >> stronger than me. >> these stroshe's stronger tha. >> when the neighbor came up, did you get up next to him because he thought he was awake. did you position yourself strategically. >> all right. it sounds like we can just sort of chat through this as they're getting the microphone in place before we get to the crux of this this questioning. sun any hostin, you've been watching all of this play out.
to mike brooks' point, he says for the most part when you look it at the written statement, audio interview, video re-enactment and now this video interrogation fairly consistent. what was your take wereawaytake? >> i wasn't sure if they were going to play these audio and videotaped statements or where are they going to force him to testify. but it was a sort of a 70/30 chance. i think their point is not only what he said, it's sort of how he said it and some of the terms that he used. for example he referred to trayvon martin as a suspect. that's police parlance. they're trying to say he was a
with an that b with an that wannabee cop, saying he took the law into his own hands.consistencienconsiste well. we know the 911 call, he said we don't need to you do that, meaning we don't need to you follow him. zimmerman said yes. he's also now indicated in a couple of statements that he did still get out and
where a lighter george zimmerman is being questioned. audio is a little sketchy. but try as you listen to this interrogation three days after trayvon martin was shot and killed. take a listen. >> i walked past him, called non-emergency. and they asked me if i could see where he was inside the house. no. i don't want to move from this area. he needed the address. and my adrenalin was rushing. a thousand things going through my mind. i gave what i thought was my address. i said 1900 instead of 1400.
and when i walked to see the address, i saw the end of the house and he was at the side of the house looking in a window. he looked at me and went around the back. so i told non-emergency, i think it was non-emergency at that time, that i'm aware you guys are coming, but he's around back. and i don't know where he went. i stayed in front of house where the street light was and i waited and i waited. and then the police came and drove past me. and that's when it hit me that i gave the wrong address instead of that address. so i called back and i said the correct address. police officer came back. it was completely dark. the window was open.
and front door wasn't -- police later told me front door was unlocked and all the windows were open. front door unlocked. garage open. so they asked for the owner's name, phone number, and then asked -- blah, blah, blah. then the next week, the next building on the end that the guy i saw broke in apparently saw a laptop, ran off. but one of the maintenance guys saw him and was able to give the police a direction of where he was going. and he was actually arrested. so when i saw him in the house and he was looking in to the house, i just thought -- something doesn't fit right here.
>> this is the one prior? >> no, that's the one i thought was suspicious. >> what was suspicious? >> he was looking at the house intently. the same house that, yeah, i had called about before. he stopped and there was a car like backing up, so i closed down. and then i drove around him. and he kept looking at me and when i passed, it was raining and i said he's not walking briskly to get out of the rain. he wasn't -- didn't look like a marathon runner that was train willing in the rain. just walking slowly. so i thought something was off.
>> so you were in the process -- we're still working with that. that right there, that's his cell phone. and that's a camera. there's a possibility that what's on the phone will help you or not help you. and that's why i have it clarify two things about what happened out there. how much do you weigh? >> 5'8", 194.
>> a lot of questions are being brought up i guess -- >> prayed that the neighborhood had a video camera i didn't know about or something. >> i guarantee you like i said, i'm hopeful myself. i find consistent with your injuries and the evidence. you said your head was smacked to the concrete. >> i was on my back. when he first punched me, i
don't know if i immediately fell down, he threw me down, stumbling. i ended up on my back and he was on top of me. and he kept punching me. when i started yelling for help, that's when he grabbed my head and started to smack. >> by the ears? >> i don't remember. every time he pinched my nose -- >> okay. >> anything else on your body? >> doctor said i strained my s.i.. >> did you see his face like this? >> no, sir.
listening to it. law enforcement analyst mike brooks sitting here with me. and you said, hey, did you hear that. and the question you noticed was what? >> it was interesting because there was talk about what he thought was trayvon being suspicious and then the investigator said would you have thought the same thing if he was white and he said yes.
just about the bottom of the hour here. you're you're watching this george zimmerman trial play out just as those six female jurors are in this courtroom in sanford, florida. again, they have been playing this police interrogation video. so here you have george zimmerman on the right side of this table and this taking place exactly three days after he shot and killed 17-year-old trayvon martin, the most recent question just to get you back in, they're basically asking him why did you
confront trayvon martin in the first place. let's listen. >> -- only stays on for a few -- i don't know how long, but it stays on for -- >> [ inaudible question ]. >> you said he was running. you got in your car. [ inaudible ] >> i think three. >> [ inaudible question ]. >> once again how -- three years. how do you explain [ inaudible ] know what i'm saying?
>> to be honest with you, i have a bad memory anyway. when they asked me the address, i don't know why i always say mine is 1960 and it's 1950. i don't know why. the streets, those streets, i can't even remember the names now. but i know that they changed. when it branches right, it's a different name. >> one of the issues that i have to clarify --
[ inaudible ] >> like a 911 -- >> a retainer? >> it did not have a retainer. >> [ inaudible question ]. >> yes, sir. let's just pull away from this. you can see this continuing obviously in the courtroom of the george zimmerman trial there in sanford, florida. we have ryan slmith back with u again. and sunny hostin is down in sanford, florida covering this all for us. let me begin with you since you are newest here to the table. listening to all of this, because we've seen -- we've will heard from so far two detectives, the lead detective and the one who initially gave the interview. of course it's audio. a lot of people are saying that
it's frustrating. >> it is frustrating. an people wa and people want to see it, it give as better read. it's one thing to say the words, another thing to see his expression. but when i see this, it doesn't necessarily help the prosecution as you might think in a lot of investigations. a lot of investigations, you bring in a lead detective, they give the testimony from speaking to the defendant and it's one of your slam dunk moments. because he's consistent. he does have small inconsistencies, but it's him in the flesh talking about everything that happened. and i think the defense has to be pretty happy about this because the more people see him talking in court about what happened, you have to start wondering are they going to put him on the stand or not. >> sunny, i'm curious, put on your former federal prosecutor hat for me and tell me as the state is -- we've seen the video re-enactment of the crime seen the day after. now we're seeing the police interrogation a couple days after zimmer mman shot and kill
the 17-year-old. what is the state trying to achieve? >> this is all about comparing what george zimmerman said happened to what the forensics may show, to what the other witnesses are saying. because really what will happen at the jury instruction level, the jury will be told, listen, you've heard a lot of different things. if you don't believe a part of a statement, you can disregard all of the statement. so i think ultimately they will say what he said doesn't make sense. this is what he said? there weren't any bushes out there when he said traon martin was hiding behind some bushes. the dispatcher told him not to pursue, not to follow. did he it anyway. because look at where he was in this time frame. and so i think it will be not so much about what he says but the manner in which he said it and comparing that to everything else in the case. so this is very much like putting a puzzle together. and what you're seeing is all the little pieces. and many people are seeing them like they're separate.
but the prosecution knows what the picture is supposed to look like at the end of the day. we don't know what it looks like yet. >> from a criminal defense attorney perspective, i'm also wondering, this is george zimmerman in his own words, right is this we saw the re-enactment as he was trying to show the bush and trying to say i saw this kid standing in the rain around this area where they have had a lot of break ins and that's what started this whole thing to begin with. i think it's important to remember why. but this is the closest to george zimmerman in his own word. at what point does the defense team say we don't need to put him on the stand? >> they don't really need to at this point because like you said, it is the first and the closest re-enactment. that's probably the best version of the story. what they might want to put him up for is to humanize him so the jury actually sees him in action, sees him actually saying those words, not on video. >> but it's risky.
there is a risk involved, is there not? >> huge risk. cross-examination. that will be a heck of a cross-examination. there are things that he's mentioning about how they will take these statements and then compare them to other statements. and there are some things that don't add up completely. so he does have to explain those. also, you can never think enough about the idea that two people got into a fight and only one is alive. jurors a lot of times want to hear that person's story. self defense cases many times, almost most of the times i would say, people get on the stand and they explain their side because the other person isn't there. so if he doesn't get up, you kind of are missing part of the story. >> and i think the jury will wonder if he doesn't get up why is he not getting up. juries are always obsessed with what they're not hearing. they always think you're trying to hide things from them. so if you don't put him up, they will wonder why. what is it that could come out. >> this is detective singleton, the woman who initially mirandized george zimmerman, initially sat him down and
questioned him. she's the one who didn't videotape this whole thing. we thought this was interesting and i wanted to play it for you because it's the two of them talking. this was the night after he shot and killed trayvon martin and he noticed the cross she's wearing around her neck. watch. >> i remember being in the room with him and i had a silver cross on and i had a v neck shirt so you could see the cross. just small about a one inch silver cross. and he asked me if i was catholic. do you want me to tell the whole story? >> yes, please. >> he asked me if i was catholic and i said no and i asked him why he would ask me that. and he said because he had noticed the cross. i said no, i'm christian and i said basically why does it matter. and he said because in his religion, in the catholic religion that no matter what,s's always wrong to kill somebody. and i said, well, as far as what you've said to me, if what you're saying is true, s's always wrong to kill somebody.
and i said, well, as far as what you've said to me, if what you're saying is true,is's alwa somebody. and i said, well, as far as what you've said to me, if what you're saying is true,ts's alwa somebody. and i said, well, as far as what you've said to me, if what you're saying is true,'s always somebody. and i said, well, as far as what you've said to me, if what you're saying is true, yopg god meant you can't save your own life. >> and a lot of questions, too, about ill will, how george zimmerman spoke the words he used to describe trayvon martin and we were talking about in florida, in order to prove and convict on second-degree murder upon which george zimmerman is facing, you have to prove depraved mind. and that may help the defense in proving that lacked. >> that it wasn't there. where is the ill will. here is a man who is in there with the detectives saying it's always wrong to kill somebody. at least according to her story, that he is feeling depressed, sad, maybe he violated his faith. and she's essentially trying to console him in some way. on on the other hand, what else does that say. does that say he did something wrong by killing trayvon martin? so i think there is a couple different ways to look at that. but it does humanize him.
>> and he's never come out and said anything bad about trayvon martin where some people in some indications like this might have gone out and said hurtful things about him or things to sort of bolster his case. and he's never done that. >> some would say by taking the position he's saying, that's saying something bad. the things that trayvon martin said which are opposite of what rachel again tejen jeantel said call with her. another reason why he has to at that time stand. keeping him off the stand leaves that open to interpretation.at that time stand. keeping him off the stand leaves that open to interpretation. if you think you have a strong case, why not tell him the story. >> it's not what they're hearing, but what they're not hearing. coming up next, i'll wribring i don lemon. he's taking a very real look at the n word, a special tonight 7:00 eastern time. why are we doing it?
why is this pertinent not only in this trial but other major national news story. we'll go there with don next. it. so here are a few reasons to choose university of phoenix. our average class size is only 14 students. our financial tools help you make smart choices about how to pay for school. our faculty have, on average, over 16 years of field experience. we'll help you build a personal career plan. we build programs based on what employers are looking for. our football team is always undefeated. and leading companies are interested in our graduates. we'll even help you decorate your new office. ok. let's get to work.
court and for the jury. we've been listening to it, you've been listening to it. the audio tough to understand. we'll pull away from it momentarily. in the meantime, and related here is a special we're airing tonight at cnn that we encourage you to watch to dvr. and it all revolves around the 14th letter of the alphabet, that being the "n" word. in recent years, it has come to represent one of the most hateful words in all of the english language. i'm not going to use this word. i know you know what i'm talking about. the term is so toxic, cuts straight to the bone. it can crush careers. it can crush empires. just ask paula dween. she admitted using the "n" word in her life time and it cost her millions in endorsements and untoward embarrassment, not only for her, but for her family. the food network kicked her off the air, she's lost a bunch of sponsors. and we've also seen the flip side of the n word here in the
geor george zimmerman murder trial. as far as we know zimmerman never used the "n" word in relation to trayvon martin, but we did just last week hear a friend of trayvon martin's, rachel jeantel, refer to trayvon martin referring to zimmerman as a, quote, crazy bleep cracker. we'll see how that language plays with the jury in the weeks to come. but the power behind the "n" word is the subject behind this hour long special tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern right here on cnn. as a prelude, don addressed the volatile issue on his show and i want to play part of that. but just a fair warning, some of the language is absolutely offensive. take a listen. >> i've watched the jeffersons and they would say -- what was the saying? they said it on television in the '70s.
but we can't say it now. >> but black people said it because we moved into this post ray she will ideology, this color blind ideology that says if we don't talk about race, if we don't name race, if we don't speak certain terms, somehow the world will be racially better. and it's simply not true. i don't have a problem with the sitcom or with you using the "n" word in context because it has explanatory value. do i think that white people should be using it? absolutely not. do i think someone with a by racial son could be confused about this? absolutely not. i find it remarkable that white people find the "n" word usage such a complicated puzzle. just don't use it. >> wait, wait. i have to disagree with you. >> let me finish the thought. you have to accept that there are some things, at least one thing, that you can't do that black people can. and that might just be okay. >> wait, wait. i'm not talking about me in particular. but what about the huge
consumers. what about the huge consumers of hip hop who have been exposed to a new sort of reclaimed usage of the word through music. so when a teenaged boy uses it with his teenaged friend as a of endearment, i'm not -- he's a kirm consumer of hip hop. >> i have to tell you, i was in ohio in october coming up on the election. and i was with a white kid in his late teens, early 20s in college. he was talking to another white friend. and they both were calling each other that term. and i was like -- at first he was on the phone with him and i thought he was talking to his black friend. and then we went and met him and he was talking to his white friend. so it's not just black people using that word as a term of endearment. >> i would be happy if no one used the term. that white teenager should learn yes you can listen to the music, but it doesn't mean you have to repeat them because the truth is they can -- >> but you can't sing along?
>> why are white people fighting so fierceless for the right to use the "n" word? just let it go. >> don, should you syou should here reacting to the conversation. my goodness. the word is powerful. it's toxic. you're going this tonight. >> i am. and i'm going to say this word on television. right? and i'm not sure at this time of the day, but you know what, here is the thing. i just went out talking to people. but there is a distinct difference for some kids especially young people between that word and that word. to most of us, it's the same thing. but young people make a distinction. this one is a term of endearment. this one obviously is not. but a lot of young people don't think it's so bad.
are they ignorant of their history or maybe just not respectful? that's a question. but i spoke with young and old about these words. take a listen and you and i will talk about it. >> both racist, but the feeling i get inside from when i hear the word is different. i guess it's a psychological difference. >> if someone were to call me a honky or cracker, i don't think this would offend me as much as this word offends other people. >> and if you hear other people saying this word or this word as opposed to that word, this still offends you more? >> yes. >> even if it's a black person calling a white person those words? >> yes. >> someone saying the "n" word? >> i'm being completely honest, yes. >> so just a question for you. i know you're young hip and cool. you and i have hung out. >> thank, don. >> do you listen to rap music? >> occasionally. >> do you listen to kanye west?
>> i come. >> jesus walks? >> yep. >> he says the "n" word might steal your necklace, whatever. >> yeah, i'm not saying that. i was just saying it's like that chris rock bit where he talks about listening to dr. dre and the "n" word pops up and there he is yelling it out. no way am i using that word. no way. >> but here is the thing that people don't realize when they're talking about a term of affection. as i said, maybe kids are not knowledgeable of the history. maybe they are. there is a difference between being knowledgeable about something and being respectful about something. about the word. as i was researching this story, country want to -- at first you get caught up in the why do black people say it, why do rappers say it. but when you start looking at the history of the civil rights movement, of the kkk, of slavery and lynchings. and also lavar burton will be on tonight who played in roots.
and when you look at people being auctioned off on a block, on an auction block as slavery and people are going i'll give you 1 oo$100, $50, and they're auctioning them off as if they are property and at the end and i'll say the word now, the auction near after he beats him into saying his name is toby, once he finally succumbs, he says now that's he a good nigger. so do you want that to be a term of affection? you can come up with the answer yourself. personally, i don't think so. >> i just would be interested to see what the younger generation has to say and if they xle behind t comprehend the history. we'll be watching, the special word the "n" word tonight at 7:00 eastern. don, appreciate it. we'll come back to the george zimmerman trial here in just a
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okay, back to the george zimmerman trial. again, they are still playing this police interrogation from a couple of days after the man you're looking at here shot and killed a 17-year-old in sanford, florida, in this community. i constantly have the six female jurors in my head as i'm watching this play out, when you see george zimmerman and you see the lead detective, detective serino and a couple other people out there walking through the crime scene one day after this whole thing happened, no lawyer --
>> no lawyer. >> how is this sitting for the jury? >> it's incredible for the jury and for the defense. this is the picture you want them to get and you don't always get it. at the beginning of the trial they tried to bring the jury out there. it was rejected by the judge. the idea was let's walk them through. the prosecution wants to show them what does add up and what doesn't add up. this is a huge point for the defense, it shows he had nothing to hide, he didn't need a lawyer there, he walked everybody through. he does have problems, the bushes, the hand over the nose and mouth, like he claims. he's got some story issues but, still, he makes it seem, he walks it through calmly and he doesn't seem afraid, doesn't seem like he's hiding something. that could be a strong point for the defense.
>> are you following me? >> you're going towards the -- >> where are you now? >> okay. is that 241? >> do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there? >> yeah. >> where are you going to meet with him? >> if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and --
straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then they go past the mailboxes. my truck -- >> what apartment is it parked in front of? >> i don't know. i don't know the address. >> do you live in the area? >> yeah. >> what's your apartment number? >> it's a home. it's 1950 -- [ inaudible ]. >> do you want to meet with them right near the mailboxes then? >> yeah, fine. >> could you have them call me and i'll tell them where i'm at? >> okay, that's no problem. >> okay, my number is -- >> i got it 435-2400? >> yeah. >> as we continue to listen, i just wanted to bring back a criminal defense attorney who has been listening to all of
this, the video, et cetera. ryan smith is saying this is helping the defense because he's very willing to speak, very willing to bring the cops back to the crime scene, seemingly compliant. do you agree? >> i do. and as ashleigh said before, i did not think they need to put him on. one this evening i was especially taken with is when he commented on the cross that the officer was wearing. >> someone on the other camp could say so sew what. he's standing there with police. i'm just saying there could be another side of this. >> there's probably three sides, the police side, george zimmerman's side and the truth. >> you're saying that was the real george zimmerman? >> i think there are parts of him that came out -- that show his humanity and that he did not -- he's not laughing about killing another human being. he takes this very seriously. he's worried about what god will do, even though he felt he acted
in self-defense. he recognizes he took the life of another human being. so it shows a more human side to him. >> okay. thank you very much. we'll continue following the trial of course. i'm brooke baldwin. jake tapper and "the lead" starts right now. >> it sounded to the dispatcher -- >> i'm jake tapper, this is "the lead." you're watching live coverage of the george zimmerman trial. you're listening to interviews that officer serino did with george zimmerman. let's take a listen. >> now you want us to believe that you're concerned about having a flashlight to move back where you just ran? you know what