tv CNN Newsroom CNN July 2, 2013 8:00am-9:01am PDT
that possibly there was something going on behind these houses here? >> yes, sir. >> you were asked about the hoodie at the 7-eleven. i'm not aware of, but what law states that an individual can't go into a 7-eleven with a hoodie? is there some law that i missed? >> no, sir. >> if i may have a moment, your honor. and finally, you do not have the
phone records in terms of trayvon martin or rachel jeantel, right, the lady that he was talking to, to determine whether it was actually based on when the defendant's phone finished or not? >> no, sir, i did not. >> in other words, you didn't have the defendant's phone records either, did you? >> no, sir. >> and i'm talking about the february 29th interview, i apologize. >> i was assuming that, yes. >> thank you, no further questions. >> thank you. we've been here almost two hours this morning on cross. now you're seeking to re-recross. i will give you five minutes. it's the state's witness and the state will have another five minutes on re-re-redirect. >> sorry, your honor, there's just a new areas he's gone into and i have to address them. >> well, you have five minutes for your re-recross. >> yes, your honor. as far as any blood on mr.
zimmerman's hands, when he got to you he was already cleaned up by emts and he had washed himself at spd, correct? >> yes, sir. >> you wouldn't expect to find blood on his hands at that point, would you? >> no, sir. >> and when the suggestion is why didn't trayvon martin have blood on his hands, does blood -- is blood susceptible to gravity as well? >> yes, sir, it is. >> so if he gets smashed in the nose and is thrown on the ground, which way is the blood going? >> towards the ground. >> and back down his throat? >> and only when he stands up is it going to come out of his nostrils. >> yes, sir. >> which is when he's no longer being mounted by trayvon martin? >> typically, yes, sir. >> break my nose, put me on the ground, my blood is going backwards into my throat, right? >> theoretically, yes. >> and would not be available to be on trayvon martin's hands at that point because there was no blood outside the nose, correct? >> correct. >> and i'm not going to approach
you like he did, but basically, first of all, if he's holding him down, could that be literally momentary that he's holding him down and mr. zimmerman is trying to get back up? >> yes, sir. >> could the attempt to suffocate literally be moment air as well? >> yes, sir. >> could it be a sleeve or an arm or a palm or anything that could have given mr. zimmerman that impression? >> yes, sir. >> thank you, your honor. >> thank you. you have -- >> i think i'm only going to ask two or three questions. >> thank you. >> may only ask one. right now it could be raining outside, right? >> yes, sir. >> and that would be pure speculation on your part, would it not? >> yes, it would. >> thank you. >> thank you. officer serino, you're excused from the courtroom but you're subject to being recalled. thank you very much. ladies and gentlemen, i think we'll take a 15-minute recess. if you'll please put your note
pads face down on the chairs and follow the deputy back into the jury room. >> and that is what you call re-re-redirect and re-re-recross. i may be missing a few res. hello, everyone, i'm ashleigh banfield picking up our live coverage of the george zimmerman second-degree murder trial live here in sanford, florida. as the courtroom breaks, you can see george zimmerman standing as the jury gets up to leave. i want to listen to what the judge is saying. >> we will recess for 15 minutes. >> no, your honor. >> i have a motion i'm filing at this point, your honor. it certainly doesn't need to be addressed right this minute, but it's in response to a motion the state filed yesterday. i don't know if they have noticed it for hearing or not. >> i haven't received any notices for hearing, but we'll go ahead and take your motion.
we'll be in recess. >> and there you have it. now we're officially in recess because whenever you see the great seal of the state of florida, we're officially not going to broadcast any more pictures from the courtroom. sometimes i've got to be honest, sometimes some of the minutia just as people are coming in and leaving court can be just as intriguing. things do happen, things are said. i think we missed some key moments in the casey anthony trial because the courtroom was leaving and people jumped in for analysis. let me tell you this, as we continue our live coverage here in sanford, florida, there is a good reason why the witness who was on the stand and just left the stand has been on for two days.
he's the lead investigator in the case. he was privy to no fewer than five different statements, written, oral and videotaped statements of the defendant in this case. let me remind you, a defendant who's facing second-degree murder charges in a case that is highly publicized, highly scrutinized, highly debated and highly criticized. i want to bring in some of my analysts. first to george howell who is reporting gavel to gavel on this case. he's also live with me in sanford, florida, on a very rainy and muggy morning. george, just get me up to speed on chris serino and why we had re-re-re-re-reexaminations of this very critical witness. >> ashleigh, absolutely. what a day, what a morning. let's talk about chris serino. right out of the gates bernie de la rionda objected to the idea of the defense attorney asking
serino if he believed that george zimmerman was credible and truthful. you'll remember that serino said yes. but now the judge has told the jury to disregard that question and disregard that answer. so you see the judge there agreeing with the prosecution. and then when we talk about what we saw today, we really saw the prosecution going after this lead investigator, first of all, in many ways questioning his judgment. for instance, when it comes to the expletive terms that were used, for instance, in that 911 audio where zimmerman can be heard saying these expletives always get away. de la rionda asked serino if he asked those tor friendly comments and he agreed that he did not consider those to be friendly comments. also when it comes to the issue of the address on that reenactment. george zimmerman said he did not know the address. but de la rionda pointed out there was an address in plain view, in plain sight. showed the picture to the jury. that was another big moment in this case. also when it comes to the issue of profiling.
de la rionda got serino to agree with him that following can be construed as profiling. >> so you could say, george howell, that those are some points scored for the prosecution in a very powerful morning. points that were very sorely needed in what has been an uphill battle by many accounts in this prosecution case. george, stand by if you will. i have to squeeze in a quick break before we go to our legal eagles, our experts. we get to the lawyers as soon as we can to get their analysis of some of that very tricky arcane speak that sometimes plagues a courtroom. other news as well. across the country, 19 brave men dying, 20% of a fire department wiped out in one horrible tragedy. families weighing in, but is anyone else weighing in? should they have been there in the first place? back right after this. ♪
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prescott, arizona, because help is now on the way, and it is desperately needed help in that wildfire. you keep seeing the pictures. not sanford, florida, but arizona in this incredible fire in yarnell, arizona. the deadly wildfires have been consuming homes and structures. now 200 structures. homes and businesses gone. you already know 19 members of an elite firefighting force were killed when the winds just suddenly, monsoon-like winds suddenly changed direction. the flags are now flying at half staff across the state of arizona today. of course look what people are bringing to the area where these people not only just parked their cars and went to a day of work, but those cars remained there at station 7. flowers now lining that fence, toys, stuffed animals, messages and of course those who have come to pay their respects. it has been so difficult for the families there.
kyung lah has been reporting and files this update. >> they're real people with real families too and we love and miss them. they're heroes. they died heroes. they were heroes in our homes, heros in our community. >> reporter: a community that now leaves. the 19 granite mountain hotshots have names. their average age just 27 years old. >> we ve very few words that express that kind of sorrow, but when you take a person in your arms and you hug them, you know. you don't have to say too much. >> reporter: 21-year-old kevin woyjeck followed in the footsteps of his father. >> words can't describe the loss that our family is feel. >> 31-year-old chris mckenzie also wanted to be a firefighter and he joined the department two years ago. andrew ashcraft, an athlete, a go-getter but most importantly a husband to wife julianne. he learned her husband had died while watching the news with her
four children. >>e all will miss him very much. we all consider him a hero, along with all the other men that died. >> reporter: 25-year-old billy e was expecting his first child with wife roxanne. 26-year-old shawn misner was supposed to be the best friend at his friend's wedding. >> i could tell him anything, that we love him. we're going to take care of his family for him. >> reporter: their end, too early. their bodies moved out of the charred fields, past the residents they gave their very lives to save. kyung lah, cnn, prescott, arizona. >> just such incredibly sad story there and such a sad development as well. and there's another big story that's developing. egypt for so many people has been an incredible place to vacation, but over the last few years, it's been a scene of
millions gathering in tahrir square. it was only a year ago a brand new president stepped in. an old president from decades stepped out. the military being such a critical issue. now yet again, protesters in the square. will the military step in? and will we see scenes of violence again? there is a deadline looming this hour. we're going to take you there next. s... i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options. then i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call now and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans,
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all medicare supplement insurance plans help cover what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you thousands a year in out-of-pocket costs. call now to request your free decision guide. and learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now -- and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is. back live here in sanford, florida, i'm ashleigh banfield. you've not missing a moment of testimony in the zimmerman trial because they're on a very brief break. you're going to resume watching it live as it happens. in the meantime there's big other news developing across the world in fact. the protests that you've been watching just develop and grow in egypt could be about to hit a major breaking point, and it could happen at any moment now. they have been threatening to
storm the presidential palace. today in fact. all because they want mohamed morsi, their president, to step down. this is the second ultimatum that that president has been facing. the first one from the protesters and the second one from egypt's military. it's been a combative relationship between the military and president morsi. our ian lee is live overlooking what you are seeing, the throngs and throngs of protesters. so far, ian, it looks like it is somewhat, and i only say somewhat stable because things can change on a dime. but what does it feel like there? >> reporter: well, ashleigh, the atmosphere the right now is electric in tahrir square, which you can see behind me. tens of thousands of people gathering in the square. still more coming in. earlier today we saw apache helicopters buzz the square. the crowd erupting, a sign from the army many would say is one that they support the people in tahrir square and around egypt.
but what we're also seeing is protests not just in cairo but also all around the country, different cities. we're seeing protesters take to the streets. i've been -- in the five years i've been in egypt, this is the largest protest i've seen. that even includes during the revolution. people are fed up with the lack of security and the poor economy. these are the two things that people say are taking them to the streets. president mohamed morsi grows more isolated as well, as ministers from his cabinet resign, including the finance minister, the oil minister, as well as the foreign minister. one other thing is that he's also losing support from major political parties. so as this protest progresses, being more isolated. ashleigh? >> we continue to watch just millions and millions of those. only a year ago watching a brand
new president come in and now asking him to step off. no one said at the beginnings of true democracy are easy. they can be messy and bloody as well. we'll continue to watch what's happening from cairo. also we're watching here this country -- by the way, a lot of europe and across the world has been watching with fascination what's going on inside a sanford, florida, courtroom. it speaks to so much other than just crime. this crime or alleged crime anyway speaks to race, it speaks to money, it speaks to really where the american psyche is right now when it looks inside a courtroom and sees color and sees law or sees none of the above. i want to bring in some of my legal analysts who have been watching this along with me. mark has practiced many action many years and has many, many cases here in the state of florida. first, mark, i want you to weigh in on the morning. there's been much ado made about this investigator, the kind of investigation he did, the kinds of questions, the tone of the
questions, questions that were left out and even challenges. all in all, how did you rate it? >> i think he did very well. he is pulling it out. yesterday was the defense day. the defense just scored some punches and it was going to be hard to revive. this prosecutor, to his credit, rose this case from the dead. i mean he came back and a lesser prosecutor couldn't have done that. >> there are some incredible lawyers in this courtroom. i've got to say, look, i've seen some real stinkers and these guys are good. they are on point, they don't miss a thing, for the most part. and bernie de la rionda really did come back. i'm not sure if it was re, re, re, which direct it was but he came back and he was able to nail down a few critical, critical points when it came to this investigator. >> i've said for a long time that trials are not linear processes. you have a good day, you have a bad day, you have to wait until it's all over. let me give you an example how astute bernie de la rionda was. he goes to his investigator and he says did you ask those
questions before dna? did you ask those questions before an m.e. report? all showing that he gave a questionable inquiry. nobody ever does on the first few days of an investigation. you never have your dna back. you never have your m.e. report back. but he made it sound like that based on that background that the investigator didn't get it all done and hence that's why he came to his conclusions. >> listen to some of this questioning live in court when it came to what this investigator, chris serino, thought about the young man that he was interviewing, whether he believed him or whether he thought he was lying. i'll tell you why it's so significant on the other side. have a look. >> i believe his words were "thank god. i was hoping somebody would videotape it." >> the fact that george zimmerman said to you, thank god, i hope somebody did videotape the event, or the whole event, what -- his statement, what did that indicate to you? >> either he was telling the truth or he was a complete
pathological liar. >> was there anything else in this case where you got the insight that he might be a pathological liar? >> no. >> so if we were to take pathological liar off the table as a possibility just for the purpose of this next question, do you think he was telling the trou truth? >> yes. >> oh, boy. oh, boy. asking somebody if they're telling the truth and this is a witness talking about another witness. i want to bring in our other expert legal minds. faith jenkins is a manhattan defense attorney and danny is a defense attorney as well. danny, i'm going to start with you. this has been litigated beyond that little piece of sound. people are really upset about it. in that courtroom they're going back and forth over whether this detective was ever allowed to say that, whether he should have said that and whether it should be stricken from the record and the bell unrung. >> what a brilliant exchange. right up to the pathological liar part. in the beginning, what the
detective is doing -- investigator is doing is he's lying to george zimmerman to try to draw out some kind of truth. he told him that there was a video that martin may have taken a video. so that's interesting. that's constitutionally permissible. but the statement as far as the truth, what's going on now is the attorneys are arguing over this. but this never happens because if anything, when a police officer opines as to the truth or credibility of a suspect, they're saying that the person is not truthful. it's the rare case where, as here, the officer, the investigator is actually wanting to testify as to his truthfulness. and that's what the attorneys are fighting over. the case law in florida is sparse on this issue. it almost always deals with a police officer attacking the credibility of a defendant. >> so then, danny, that probably stands to reason when they went back over this issue, that's probably why mark o'mara started to change the line of questioning to what did you do next? what did his words cause you to do or question him and what was
your path and your pattern after you heard that. faith jenkins, put on your former prosecutor hat now for a moment. should the prosecution yesterday have objected and said right at that moment, wait a minute, you can't do that in a criminal trial. you can't say those things. they didn't. >> they didn't. and what happened is overnight they looked back at the testimony and they looked at the case law and they knew that they had to come in this morning and make an objection and try to get that testimony stricken from the record. but the jurors have already heard it. and the defense knew they were ending on a high note yesterday, which is why they ended when they did. the prosecutor argued this morning, this is a great argument, this is the lead investigator on the case. his testimony by virtue of his position alone, carries a tremendous amount of weight. he should not be able to opine as to whether another witness is or is not telling the truth. that's their argument. and what an interesting dynamic here. usually the lead homicide detective and investigator,
you're in the state's pocket. like you are their key witness. you are there to help them get a conviction on this case. you're there to tell the truth. you want to ensure that justice is done, and it is amazing that he would come in and say in this case that he believed george zimmerman was telling the truth. >> all right, faith. i want to just cut you off real quickly and i would only do that, my good friend, to go right back into the live trial because testimony has resumed and bernie de la rionda, the prosecutor, is now questioning a man named mark osterman who is a friend, not only a friend but a best friend we're told of george zimmerman and he spoke with zimmerman after the shooting. let's listen. >> he made some statements to you regarding what he alleged happened regarding the shooting he was involved in? >> yes, he did. >> and did he specifically state that that sunday night, the 26th, he was going shopping at target? >> correct. >> let me object, your honor, leading. >> okay. if you could, tell us what the defendant told you, and let me set the setting, if i could. you were with yourself and i
believe you were driving, is that correct? >> i drove myself. >> i apologize. let me rephrase the question. confused on my part. when mr. zimmerman, the defendant, was telling you something about what happened, he was in the car with you, is that correct? >> that is correct. >> and were you driving? >> i was. >> and was his wife in the car with you and him? >> she was. >> did he make some statements regarding what had happened regarding the shooting? >> he did. >> if you could tell us what the defendant said regarding what he alleged happened. >> george said that on the night, on that sunday night, he had left his home, as he did every sunday night, to get lunches for the week. and as he was going to go to super target, which is really, really close to his home, he was going to -- he just drives out of his neighborhood. it was -- i think it was dark that night. and on his way there is when he observed someone in a black hoodie and someone who was looking like someone he had not
seen before. he knew most of the people in his neighborhood. so he had observed someone walking through the neighborhood with a hoodie on, looking either into windows or looking into -- around residences and such. >> let me interrupt you if i could. did he describe the individual he said? >> he did. >> how did he describe him? >> tall. about 6' and about -- slender. slender build. >> and he stated the person was doing something, you said? >> he said looking into -- was walking through, between two sets of town homes. when you look to your left and right, you would look into windows. you wouldn't be in a position to look into the front door or such, but it was side windows. >> yes, sir. did he further describe the individual by race or ethnicity? >> well, at that time he knew that he was a black male. >> okay. i apologize. i interrupted you. you said -- what else did the
defendant tell you regarding what happened? >> he said when he realized that the person that was walking through the neighborhood was someone he didn't know, he didn't recognize, and someone who usually looks through a neighborhood while it's raining, it's suspicious because a lot of times juveniles will walk through neighborhoods or people who are suspicious will walk through neighborhoods while it's raining because you get less people walking around, walking their dogs or just taking an evening walk. so someone who might want to be a little more suspicious, if they're acting suspicious, they'll do it when it's dark and when it's raining and that might have been a trigger, he had said to me. >> what i want to do is focus as best you can in terms of what you recall him saying as opposed to -- >> i'm sorry. >> no, that's all right. >> he said he observed who is now we realize is trayvon walking between the two buildings. then he came down and he observed him, thought it was suspicious and that he was going to call the nonemergency number for the sanford police
department. >> did he state that the individual that we're referring now as trayvon martin starts toward him and came under the light and so he was using his phone? >> correct. correct. george was using his -- i'm sorry, did you mention george was using his phone or trayvon? >> what did he say to you? >> i was never told by george that trayvon was using his phone. >> i'm sorry, that he. >> george was. >> i apologize, george zimmerman was using his phone. >> correct. he dialed the nonemergency number and wanted to make sure that he called that line instead of the 911 line. >> did he say the person you know now as the victim, trayvon martin, approached this car? >> walked close at this point. >> okay. what does he say about that, if you could? >> walked down to the street about where -- because george had remained in his vehicle. and trayvon had walked down -- i guess down to the sidewalk area, walked a little further away, walked back a bit and then
george had, i believe, pulled into the front of their clubhouse and parked his vehicle there and waited for sanford police to arrive and make contact. >> does he say -- i apologize, i interrupted you, sir. did he say the person you now know as trayvon martin, when i say he, i'm talking about the defendant, george zimmerman, that he walked up to the passenger side window and stood there for a moment and then goes to the front of the car, comes around to the window on my driver side and then towards the rear of my car and then walks away. >> yeah, walked around the vehicle in close proximity. and i think they looked at each o other, george had said. >> did he, the defendant, then say at some point he lost sight of the person you now know as trayvon martin? >> yes, briefly. >> and do you recall then in terms of mr. zimmerman, the
defendant saying that he was talking to dispatch or the nonemergency person, correct? >> yes. >> did he tell you that in terms of whether he was asked are you following him and he answered yes, i'm following him, but he didn't see trayvon martin at that point, was looking for him? >> well, there's kind of two -- as george described it to me, there were kind of two phases of the contact. the first one was when he first saw him and then he pulled into the clubhouse parking lot. and then the second one was when he re-established contact with trayvon, who walked down another side street that wasn't the main -- the main street around the circle and then he backed his car up and then he tried to -- tried to keep visual contact with him so he followed him with his car. and he didn't get out of his vehicle until he lost visual sight of him. >> and then do you recall the defendant telling you that the officer -- that the dispatcher, i use officer just because they're with the police
department, saying that the defendant that we don't need you to follow him and he said okay? >> correct. that was at the point where he had already gotten out of his car first and as he described it to me, there were two reasons for getting out of the car. first, he didn't know the street i guess he was on, that center street. it's a smaller street. he didn't know the actual name of it so he got out of his car to try to establish a visual contact, to try to direct the police officer in to meet with trayvon and disspell his suspicions and to find the exact address. because as a police officer, you always want to know the exact address of where you're going. >> all right. and then he told you -- i'm sorry, he, the defendant, i apologize for using a pronoun, that he started walking and then he put his phone somewhere? >> he put his phone in his pocket after the dispatcher told him they didn't need him to follow him. so he was going to walk back to his vehicle. >> and then he said something happened at that point? >> he told me that as he was walking back to his car down the
dog path, that trayvon had confronted him, had walked towards him and confronted him and they had a verbal. >> and what do you recall the defendant telling you that trayvon martin told him and what did he say in response? >> he cursed. i'm not going to curse here today. he said do you have a problem? and then he used a curse word. >> all right. now, you wrote a book about this, right? >> i did. >> and you wrote a book. and you quoted what the defendant, george zimmerman, told you, correct? >> correct. >> do you recall in that book writing "do you have a problem," that's what he said trayvon martin said? >> right, correct. >> and you didn't put in that book anything about a curse word at all? >> i believe i did. >> you did? okay. >> i believe i did. do you have a problem and then he used the initials mf. >> okay. may i approach the witness, your honor? >> yes, you may. >> i'm going to show you your book. unless i've got the wrong page,
i'm on page 28, counsel. just to refresh your memory. >> correct, correct. >> don't read from it, that's just to refresh your memory. >> yeah, he had told me that do you have a problem and then the curse word. it was taken out of the book because it was pretty graphic. >> oh, okay. so on purpose you took it out. >> i think the publisher asked it not be put in. >> you said he asked do you have a problem and mr. zimmerman replied, no, i don't have a problem, correct? >> correct. >> but you believe the words were actually what now the defendant said? >> mf. >> okay. so the juries have heard, so just for the record he said -- [ muted ] >> and then the defendant, mr.
zimmerman, said in reply, no, i don't have a problem. and then mr. trayvon martin replied? >> you do now. >> and the defendant claimed that he, trayvon martin, was coming at him at that time? >> he was very close, probably within an arm's or two arm's reach and george lost contact visually. >> i apologize. i interrupted you. >> that's okay. no, as george was reaching down to get to his phone to re-establish contact with the dispatch, that's when physical contact happened. >> so the defendant told you that he had these words with trayvon martin. >> correct. >> and then he said that he went and reached for his phone in his pocket. >> correct. looked down. >> i'm sorry, he looked down. >> he looked down to reach to get into his pocket. >> and at that point is when trayvon martin hit him? >> struck him in the nose. >> okay. so he -- the defendant claims he
looked down and that's when trayvon martin hit him? >> well, he looked down, got his phone and he said as he looked back up, and he lost visual contact for maybe a second to get his phone out of his pocket. he went like this. as he looked up, the punch came squarely in his face. >> so did the defendant say he took the phone out or left it in his pocket? >> i don't remember that. i don't remember. >> okay. and then what did the defendant claim after he claims the victim hit him in the nose? >> he stumbled backwards and found himself on his back. >> okay, partially on the grass, partially on the sidewalk. >> did he say what the victim, trayvon martin, was doing at that point? >> he moved forward and got on top of him. >> did he describe to you how he got on top of him? >> his knees were up somewhere near his chest or up near his arm pits and he was -- he was beginning to punch him.
>> okay. so the defendant is claiming that the victim straddled him, i guess? >> correct. >> and his knees were up in his ribs and near his arm pits, correct? >> correct. >> and he began punching him? >> that's what george said. >> he began punching trayvon martin. >> trayvon began punching george zimmerman. >> i'm sorry, i got it backwards. the defendant is claiming he's on the ground. trayvon martin is straddling him. >> was punching him. >> i apologize. >> he said that he was on his back and trayvon martin straddled him and began punching him in the face. >> but the way he described trayvon martin straddling the defendant, he claims that his -- you said his knees were up to his rib cage or arm pits, is that correct? >> somewhere around there, yes. >> then he said what? >> well, george began screaming for help at that point. >> did he say anything about the
defendant grabbing his head and doing something with his head? >> absolutely. once he started screaming, trayvon -- george said trayvon grabbed his head and started bashing his head on the concrete, which his upper half of his body was on the dog path. >> in fact i think you quoted mr. zimmerman, the defendant, saying that he was 8 inches from the grass, correct? >> about. as george was explaining it, this upper half of him, somewhere here was still on the concrete and the rest of his body was on the grass. >> and i think your quote is i noticed that i'm about 8 inches away from the grass, correct? >> correct. >> and then does mr. zimmerman, the defendant, tell you that i tried to maneuver my body just enough to get my head onto the grass? >> it was a squirm, he said. he said as he was squirming down towards the grass to keep his head from getting hit by the concrete, the jacket kind of remained still. his jacket since it wasn't
buttoned, it stayed where it was and his body moved towards the grass a little bit more. >> what else did he say about anybody else seeing this or came out? >> he said several people had came out, at least two that he saw came out and he directly screamed for help towards those people. so as he was screaming, it was more directed at someone. >> and did he say one of the individuals that came out was a man and he yelled direct low ly him and the man just went right back in? >> he stated he was going to call 911. he wasn't going to get involved. >> did he say there was other individuals that saw this too, correct? >> perhaps at least one other for sure that witnessed what was happening. it may have been the same person that had the flashlight that showed up later. >> i think you -- and you can refer, if you need to refresh your memory, on page 28 where you quoted mr. zimmerman. did you not at the very bottom
of page 28 of your book? >> several -- yeah, there were several people. >> i think you said two other men saw us out there and did nothing. >> correct. >> correct? >> i believe so. at least one other, maybe two others. >> and then he claimed that mr. martin, trayvon martin, was still on top of him and took his hands and put it over his nose, correct? >> one hand was trying to cover his nose and one hand was trying to cover his mouth to keep him from screaming. >> and i think you quoted mr. zimmerman as saying that trayvon martin put his hand -- takes one of his hands and puts it over my nose and pinches it closed while his other hand goes over my mouth. >> it was described to me something like this, maybe pinch -- maybe not like that, a pinch like that and a cover.
continuing live cnn coverage of the george zimmerman murder trial in sanford, florida. and a brief warning to you, some of the language and some of the images and subject matter is uncomfortable and defensive, so we just want to give you that warning. we're doing our very best to edit as things happen but that does go out if you're watching that certainly some of that can slip through. meantime a critical witness has taken the stand. this is mark osterman, a self-described best friend of george zimmerman. in fact he actually wrote a book called defe"defending your frie the most hated man in america." he's being questioned by the prosecutor right now on the
account that george zimmerman told him after shooting trayvon martin. the details matter, specifically having your mouth covered up by trayvon martin but still being able to be hit by trayvon martin. they're now getting to the sidearm issue and when trayvon might have discovered there was a sidearm according to george zimmerman's account to his friend. >> pulled the trigger, correct? >> unfortunately, yes. >> and then he claims after he shot trayvon martin, that trayvon martin sat up and he heard him say you got it, okay, you got it, something like that. >> correct. >> and then that trayvon martin pivoted 90 degrees and fell face forward onto the grass and he scooted from under him? >> correct. >> and the defendant claims he didn't know he shot him? >> he didn't know he struck him. >> i'm sorry, struck him. >> correct. >> in fact the defendant went on
to tell you that he thought trayvon martin -- i know he wasn't calling him trayvon martin. i think he referred to him as the guy or whatever. might try to get up again, so after putting his gun back in the holster, he jumped on top of trayvon martin and pinned him down, correct? >> correct. >> and then he said a man approached him out of the darkness. >> the first man was not a police officer. the second was. >> and do you recall also that what he's describing in terms of the first contact that he had out there when he was calling the nonemergency number that he said we need you to get to a place where you can see him, in
terms of observing trayvon martin? >> right. well, that's -- he had said that he had to get somewhere where he could observe trayvon or observe any subject that's in his neighborhood to be able to direct police officers to them. so whether he actually -- whether the dispatch actually said we need you to move to where you can see them, i'm not sure if that's actually what had occurred. but he had said that his instructions from sanford police, whenever they came to their complex, was always to get to where you can observe and try not to make contact. >> he told you that the officer was on the scene in about 45 seconds or something, or the dispatch was telling him that, right? >> well, time is relative at that point but very shortly
thereafter. >> the dispatcher is telling him the officer is almost there, he's been 45 seconds. >> correct, correct. >> and he told you that -- and i'm going back now in terms of the dispatcher. he tells you that he told the dispatcher just have the officer meet me at the clubhouse, correct? >> that is correct. >> and he put his phone in his pocket and headed back when the guy is about 15 feet away, walking towards him, right? >> correct. >> and he's saying that trayvon martin -- i apologize, you know who i'm talking with. >> correct. >> he's describing this person is 15 feet away and walking towards him, correct? >> right. >> and he says do you have a problem? and then what occurs? you said he said some other words, mf, but you didn't put it in the book, correct? >> correct. >> he also told you that when he
managed to get his hand off of trayvon martin's hands off his mouth, that he had control of the wrist, correct? >> to some degree to prevent him from putting it back over his mouth, yes. >> right. and he told you that he, the defendant, managed to break the grip on the gun where the guy grabbed it between the rear side and the hammer, correct? >> whether it was the gun or the leather casing or reaching down there and grabbing something. >> right. >> broke the grip of the gun or the holster. >> now, you didn't refer to the holster when you wrote it down in the book, correct? you just put gun. >> correct. because the holster -- that's exactly the place where the holster holds the firearm in place. so whether it was actual firearm or holster, i didn't see a difference. if someone grabs ahold of the holster or grabs ahold of the gun, their intent is probably
the same. >> and the defendant is telling you then that he shot at trayvon martin, but he didn't know whether he had struck him or not. >> correct. >> he thought the shot went wide, correct? >> he did say that. >> let me have a moment, your honor. i don't have any further qutions. >> thank you. cross. >> good morning, sir, how are you? >> fine, sir. >> how long have you been in law enforcement? >> since 1992. >> pretty much a career for you? >> it is. >> and do you enjoy doing what you do? >> very much.
>> did you get any college training or anything before going to the police academy? >> well, i -- not before the police academy. i had -- run went right out of high school. when i got out i applied directly to the daytona beach police academy. >> completed that and been in law enforcement ever since? >> correct. >> you discussed your career with george zimmerman? >> detail. >> it was you who assisted him hen he decided he needed a firearm? >> that is correct. >> did he tell you the reason why he wanted to get a firearm? >> he -- he asked whether he should or shouldn't to start with. i recommended he should. anybody who is a non-convicted felon should carry a firearm.
>> that's your life philosophy? >> that's my opinion. >> being armed instead of not being armed? >> the police aren't all there. >> you then encouraged him to do that? >> i told him if he wished to to go to a place that trains for the concealed weapons permit and get that training. >> which you know that he did? >> he did do. >> he cgot his concealed weapon permit? >> i believe him and his wife. >> then they decided what weapon to purchase? >> he. >> did he seek your counsel? >> he did. >> objection. >> sustained. >> let's focus a bit more -- how long did you know george? >> about five years. at that time about four years at that time. >> i think you said he's your
best friend? >> best one i've ever had. >> would that affect in any way your testimony here today that he's a good friend of yours? >> well, not as far as the truth is. >> okay. you're going to speak the truth good or bad for mr. zimmerman? >> correct. >> as far as that friendship you were contacted on the night this event happened? >> i was. >> offered your help when, i guess helped shelly with what she was going through? >> near hysterical? he was visiting her father's home at the time when she received a call from a neighbor from twin lakes and she immediately called me both of us got into our vehicle and arrived a twin lakes within about ten seconds of each other. >> how upset was she? >> hysterical. she had almost no information to
go on because the neighbor that called had -- they had hung up so she couldn't get further updates as to george's health or status. i put my arm around her to keep her from blacking out, i guess. >> at that point she had gotten a phone call from somebody who said that george was involved in a shooting, correct? >> she told me that she got call that said george was involved in a shooting, in handcuffs and bloody. >> i want to bring something up while we're watching the testimony. i think it's a critical piece of information even though it's not on the record and not testimony. many people will tell you that trials are shows. they are shows to the jury and sometimes they are shows to a tv audience. if you watch this witness on the box to my right, you can see
that mark is sweating a lot. it's not easy to be a witness. make no mistake it's a very stressful thing to be a witness on the witness stand. that said, this is not your average witness. it's an air marshal and former deputy. he's aware of how to ask and answer questions. it's extremely hot and muggy in florida today. more so than yesterday. number two, in this courtroom are martin savidge reports there's no difference in the temperature. i bring that up it's because not going unnoticed by viewers and jurors. we'll swequeeze in a quick brea. i want to continue listening in on the testimony as mark o'mara continues his cross-examination. >> stunned. he immediately attempted to
reassure shelly who broke down again. she went into hysterics, kind of a breakdown. went into a sobbing breakdown. he was more occupied with her than with anything else. he had a stunned look on his face. >> when you say stunned. >> wide eyed. kind of a little bit detached perhaps from maybe not realizing he had just gone through a traumatic event. it's hard to describe. very difficult to describe. >> as a good friend to him for the four years prior you've known him, correct? >> yes. >> tell the jury how he was that night compared to the george zimmerman you knew most other days. >> that's what i was using to
base my observation on was a more wide eyed stare. wups he saw shelly he focused on making sure she was reassured and letting her know she was okay and he doesn't have anything fatal going onto him. she immediately started to observe. when she got out of her shock at seeing george she started kind of looking at his injuries. i guess she went into a nurse mode because she was a nursing student. >> how is george presenting himself to you? >> detached. it's hard to describe. >> what is detached from the way he normally is? >> vastly. >> when you say detached, what do you mean? >> i would say probably -- when
you feel like you. it's hard to describe, sir. i would say he was probably in a position where he was not able to process. he wasn't answering questions. i started asking him some questions about whether he needed to sit down for a little bit right there in the lobby. he didn't. i just want to go. i just want to go home kind of thing. it was very basic. i don't know how to describe detached as in wide eyed and really not processing what was going on. >> did he seem to be nonemotional about what was going on? >> coming right off of the elevator. well, he was tending to shelly and her sobbing and her crying. he was focused with that.
when shelly transformed from a wife concerned for her husband to being a nurse that's when he kind of just had a blank stare. >> at some point you got in the car, correct? >> went to my vehicle. >> and then let's talk about the conversations that he did have with you. give us the setting as to how this conversation that at some point in the future you relays as far as your direct examination, give us the setting. >> we get into my vehicle. shelly and george got in the backseat. shelly is trying to put an assessment on the injuries that were to george's nose and the back of his head. he had a swell iing on the left side of his fist. not really a goose egg but it
was a very big swelling area, swollen area. with his head being -- his hair being closely cropped like mine you could see it. i guess if he had a lot more hair you couldn't see it. she started tending to that. when we got, stated she needed to get ice on that part of the swelling. on the drive from the sanford police department to my home he explained from start to finish. it took about the whole time we went from the police department to my home, he explained what happened that night. that's the first time we had known any details of anything. >> now, as he was explaining it to you was this sort of as a friend recounting to a friend or were you acting in law enforcement mode or friend mode? >> well, my wife will tell you it's hard for me to get out of law enforcement mode. i like to analyze everything i
hear to make sure that it makes sense. >> let's start off then not to belabor too much keeping in mind your direct testimony but let's start with you he told you he was on his way to super target. did that seem usual or unusual? >> every single sunday like clock work. >> tell me what he said to you about him first noticing who later became known to all of us as trayvon martin. >> he observed trayvon walking between two sets of town homes and looking into, i believe there was a window to one where the light was on and you could see someone was looking into the window of a town home. it was about that time that trayvon and george made eye contact with each other. both aware of the other's