tv CNN Newsroom CNN July 5, 2013 6:00am-8:01am PDT
that was your son screaming, even before you heard him, correct? >> i didn't hope anything. i just simply listened to the tape. >> in case your case his mother there is no doubt that it was him screaming? >> absolutely. >> did you have any thought in mind how you would react if you didn't hear your son's voice? >> i didn't really know what the tape was all about. >> and everybody else in the room when they listened to the tape, who was the first one to react? >> i was. >> and everybody else then reacted similarly to you, correct? >> well, they also heard the tape themselves. >> correct. and every one of them then told you that they agree with your opinion that it was trayvon
martin's voice, correct? >> they didn't tell me anything. >> when you mentioned a moment ago that you didn't know what the tape was about, nobody spoke to you to tell you that you would soon be listening to screams from the event that led to your son's death? >> no. >> mayor triplett never said anything like that to you? >> no. >> nor any of your other family members? >> they didn't hear the tape at that time. >> the question is whether or not anyone told you to prepare yourself for the event of the trauma of having to listen to somebody scream moments before your son was shot.
>> you were asked about hope did you hope your son wouldn't be dead, trayvon martin. you were asked by defense counsel, were you hoping he was still alive? >> i was hoping he was still alive. >> did you enjoy listening to that recording? >> absolutely not. >> thank you, no further questions. >> ma'am, i don't mean to put you through this any more than necessary. but you certainly would hope that your son, trayvon martin, did anything that would have led to his own death? >> what was your question, again? >> you certainly hope as a mom, you certainly hope that your
son, trayvon martin, would not have done anything that would have led to his own death, correct? >> what i hoped for was that this would have never happened and he would still be here. that's my hope. >> absolutely. now, dealing with the reality that he's no longer here, certainly your hope as a mom hold out hope as long as you can that trayvon martin was in no way responsible for his own death, correct? >> i don't believe he was. >> i know. that's the hope that you continue, correct? >> i don't understand what you're trying to ask me. >> i don't mean to put you through more than you need to. >> ms. fulton, you could step down. subject to being recalled. we're having an issue with the evidence locker door and as soon as that gets resolved you'll more than likely be recalled. state want to call your next witness.
>> thank you, your honor. good morning, sir. if you please tell the members of the jury your name. >> fulton. >> in what city do you currently live? >> miami. >> can i ask you to scoot up a little bit so we can get you into that microphone. how long have you lived in the miami area? >> all my life. >> are you in school? >> yes. >> where is it you attend school? >> florida international university. >> what year would you be at fiu? >> this is my final year. >> do you have a major? >> whyes. >> what is that? >> information technology. >> are you related to trayvon martin? >> yes. >> how so? >> that is my brother. >> are you older or younger than trayvon martin? >> older. >> how much older? >> about four and a half years. >> what is your mother's name? >> sybrina fulton.
>> are you related to tracy marten? >> yes. >> how are you related to tracy martin? >> that is my dad. >> is he your biological father? >> no. >> why do you call him your dad? >> he is the only dad i know. i grew up with him. >> did you and trayvon martin grow up together? >> yes. >> and how would you describe your relationship with trayvon martin growing up? were you all close? >> yes, we were very close. >> despite the four years age difference, did the two of you do things together growing up? >> yes. >> let me turn your attention to the month of february 2012. were you and trayvon martin living together at that time? >> yes. >> and who did you live with? >> my mom, sybrina fulton, my brother and my uncle. >> let me turn your attention to
sunday, february 26th. were you aware that trayvon martin was with his father, tracy martin, in sanford, florida, that day? >> yes. >> did you go to sanford that weekend s weekend? >> at some point were you notified that trayvon was killed in sanford? >> yes. >> when were you told? >> monday. >> and who told you? >> my mother. >> since your brother's death, have you had an opportunity to hear a tape that contains screaming and a gunshot? >> yes. >> can you estimate for the members of the jury approximately how many times you've heard that tape? >> anywhere between 10 to 15 times. >> how have you heard it? have you heard it on a computer, on tv on the internet or what? >> i heard it from a computer and from tv.
>> and do you recognize any voices on that tape? >> yes. >> whose voice do you recognize? >> my brother. >> trayvon's? >> yes. >> what parts of the recording do you recognize as your brother's voice? >> the yelling and the screaming. >> have you ever heard trayvon martin scream or yell as the two of you were growing up? >> i've heard him yell, but not like that, yes. >> your honor, that's all i have. >> thank you. >> morning, sir. >> good morning. >> you actually were not as certain that it was your brother's voice when you heard it though, correct? >> correct. >> matter of fact, you had talked to a reporter about whose voice it may have been, correct? >> yes. >> and you told that reporter on
march 31st of 2012 that you weren't sure, correct? >> yes. >> you said that, honestly, really haven't listened to it. i heard it. i think it was my brother, but i'm not completely positive, correct? >> yes. >> so, having listened to the tape, the first time you listened to it was in the mayor's office in sanford, correct? >> yes. >> and your mom was there, correct? >> yes. >> and other family members. and these two attorneys, correct? >> yes. >> and during that time you listened to it along with everybody else, correct? >> yes. >> and from having listened to it, it was your thought that it might be trayvon, correct? >> when we heard it in the mayor's office -- how do i
explain -- i wasn't. i guess i didn't want to believe it was him. that's why during that interview i said i wasn't sure. i guess it was listening to it was clouded by shock and denial and sadness. i didn't really want to believe that was him. >> sure. but you recall the date thereabouts where you listened to that? middle of march, march 16th of 2012. would that be about right? >> i don't remember. >> it was a full two weeks before you had your sit down interview with -- >> i'm not sure. >> if i were to, i mentioned a moment ago that the interview was on cbs miami channel 4 on march 31st. do you have any reason to contest that? >> i'm not sure of the dates.
>> i mentioned also that the tape, that the tape was played for the family on march 16th or thereabouts. any reason to contest to that? >> no. >> so, that was about two weeks. did you listen to the tape in between. >> probably not. >> in the two weeks, i'm sorry. >> i'm guessing no. >> the reporter actually played the tape when you were there. >> i'm not sure. actually, could you -- i'm not sure of the time you're talking about. >> okay. let me ask you this way then, do you recall sitting down with geo benetiz a reporter for cbs channel 4 and talking to them about who you thought may have been on the tape? >> yes. >> do you remember that event?
>> i remember. >> i'm sorry. >> yes, i remember. >> that was the event i talked about earlier where your first answer to him, his question was who did you hear crying for help? remember that question? >> i don't remember the question. >> then, what i'd like to do with the court's indullgence is to play that recording for you and ask if you remember the call at that point. the tv program at that point. >> judge, i object to that. >> we would need to do that first outside the presence of the jury. >> i understand. >> so, ladies and gentlemen, if you please put your notepads face down and follow into the jury room.
>> previously suggested that needs to be played outside the jury. i think he now denied the question and answer and to play his own words. >> i think he said he wasn't sure and if the rules of impeachment require that you show the witness the statement or let them listen to the statement and that's done to themselves. since it's going to be played in open court, the jury needed to be removed. so, you can play it for him and
we'll go from there. >> yes, your honor. >> judge, for the record, i believe the witness' answer said he wasn't positive it was his brother's voice. i think it's consistent with what he said in court. >> well, let him listen to it. >> obviously, you heard those calls. >> it has video. i don't know it's necessary for the witness to see the video. rather than go through warming up the projector. >> just play it. >> obviously, you heard those calls. i know, you mentioned the cries for help. when you heard those calls and
those cries for help, who did you hear crying for help? >> i'm not sure. honestly, i haven't really even listened to them that good. i've heard it, but, i mean, i would think it is my brother. but i'm not completely positive. >> for these purposes, does that assist you in remembering the conversation you had with geo benetiz? >> yes. >> that was your voice, correct? >> yes. >> you said the words, i'm not sure? >> yes. >> i think that for the purpose of impeachment, but i am going to review my request that based upon concerning his answers to --
>> i need to hear his answer to the original question because the state is saying that he answered similarly. so, if the court reporter could take a moment to read it back. >> as she's doing that, i think when i said to him his words, he said, yes. when i asked him again later, the later question is the more relevant one. he said i really don't remember. it was for that reason that i want to remind him. so, yes, the first question, he did. but then he equivocated towards the end of his testimony. >> do you remember the reporter asking you question? he did not equivocate about what his answer was. he said he wasn't sure at the time, which is what he said today. >> thank you. we all just won't say anything so the court reporter can look back.
>> the question you're referring to. >> good morning, sir. >> not to interrupt you, i think it was literally the first question i asked. >> you were not certain it was your brother's voice when you first heard it, correct? answer, correct. question, you asked about whose voice it could have been. answer, correct. you told the reporter you weren't sure, correct? correct. you said you haven't listened to it, i heard it, i would think it's my brother, but i'm not completely positive. question, you have to answer out loud. answer, yes.
>> i'll just read this. okay, let me ask it this way. when do you recall sitting down with geo, a reporter for cbs miami channel 4 and talking to him about who you thought may or may not have been on the tape? answer, yes. question, do you remember the event? answer, yes, i remember it. question, that was the event i talked about earlier where your first answer to him, his question was, who did you hear crying for help? do you remember that question? answer, i don't remember the question. then you wanted to play the tape. >> so, whether he remembered the question is a collateral matter. his answer was the same. that he told the reporter that he wasn't sure. whatever words were used. so, that's not necessarily -- that's not impeachment, a collateral matter of what the reporter may have asked. his answer did not differ. >> i renew my request that it be
played for the jury. number one, his equivocation right now the best evidence is his own words that he spoke to the reporter. it shows his inflection, it shows his hesitation instead of just having t-- >> is there another legal basis for playing that recording? >> the best evidence of the recording that happened back then. even if he testifies to it now, he's testifying, quite honestly, in a very different attitude and inquiry. >> that's not a legal basis. >> i understand the court's concern. >> so, for impeachment purposes, no, it may not be played because his answer is the same today as it was then. that's not impeachment. his not remembering the reporter's question is a collateral matter because it's not the question that matters, it's the answer that's given.
so, your request is the objection is sustained. >> i would like to have this clip -- >> of course, it would come in as, is it jj? it will come in and be marked as jj. i hear the locksmiths are here and the jury is already out. let's take a brief recess so we can try to get that door open. i'm going to remind you, you're still on the stand while we take our recess. you can walk around and you cannot discuss your testimony with anybody, okay? all right. court will be in recess until further notice. >> all right, the court is in recess now and good morning to you, i'm carol costello. you're in the "newsroom" right now. 23 minutes past the hour. emotional testimony from trayvon martin's mother this morning. didn't last very long, but i think points were made, maybe on both sides. but i'll leave that up to our
experts. with me today, as always, glad you're here. i'll direct the first question to you. sybrina fulton. it was really short on direct from the prosecution. she described the tattoos on her son's body. which was actually moving in itself because they were praying hands. he had a tattoo of praying hands and a tattoo of his mother's name. and then she was asked if that was, if the screams on the 911 tape were that of her son's and she said, yes. then the defense started the cross and that's where i think that it would be easy to veer into insensitivity. >> sure. >> what did you think? >> i think mr. o'mara is treading very carefully. he wants to suggest to the jury that she knows the importance of
who was screaming. as trayvon's mother, she is going to hear his voice in that recording. i don't think we've heard the last of ms. fulton. her testimony was short because there's a piece of evidence in that locker that the state is going to get to and reintroduce and recall her. >> which has to be so painful for her. >> she has been well prepared for this testimony. she is calm and very clear and she is told not to be combative with the lawyers no matter how much he tries to insult you and be clear, state your point and she is doing very well as a witness. >> a criminal defense attorney. she is in irvine, california. >> hi. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> trayvon martin's brother is currently on the stand and he also testified that he did, indeed, think the screaming on the tape was his brother. but when he first heard the tape, he wasn't sure. good for the defense? >> it could go both ways,
really. you could make the argument that, you know, it took him some time to get used to the quality of the tape, the emotions may have subsided and that he was able to understand that, yes, this is my brother. on the other hand, the defense made some really interesting points which is initially when asked by a reporter, you didn't know and you weren't sure. and i think it's right with some reasonable doubt. >> all right, we're going to take a quick break and be back to discuss more. recess is still in effect in the court. we'll be right back.
and good morning to you, once again. thank you for being with me. i'm carol costello. this is a special edition of "newsroom." it is now 30 minutes past the hour. we'll continue our gavel-to-gavel coverage of the zorn george zimmerman trial. this is a pivotal day. opened with stirring testimony from trayvon martin's mother and his older brother. prosecutors are supposed to rest their case as the second week of the trial winds down. joining me this morning, cnn's george howell who was in sanford, florida, courtney pilchman in irvine, california. here with me in atlanta, page pate. jason johnson will be along any moment. he has been with us throughout this trial. i want to go first live to
sanford. george, i want to start with you. did you see the martin family enter the courtroom this morning? >> we did see them enter the courtroom and, you know, obviously, this is the first time for sybrina fulton, you know, to give her side on what she heard on that 911 audio and do want to talk about what they said in court when asked if she heard that tape before this meeting. the meeting that happened with mayor jeff triplett in the mayor's office and also with the city manager. she said she never had heard the tape before and she was not warned about what could be on that tape and the first time she heard it, she said she believed that was the voice of her son. keep in mind, at the same time, we know that tracy martin, trayvon martin's father, he did not believe initially that that was the voice of his son, but later came to the conclusion that it was the voice of his son. and the other important point to make here. when you hear what the audio analysts said, he said
specifically that it would be a family member who would best determine who was screaming on that tape. however, he made the point that it would have to be in the same situation. a similar scenario, the same type of scream. that question was posed to jahvaris fulton and he said he heard him yell, not like that, but, yes. so, he did answer that question. the same issue that was brought up by that audio analyst. >> you would hope he wouldn't hear his brother yelling, if, indeed, it was trayvon martin's voice on that tape. there was a gun involved in the tussle, right? he was screaming in terror. you wouldn't hear your brother screaming like that normal, everyday life. >> right. >> that's very important because what the defense is doing, they are trying to look at any inconsistency or difference in the story that he gave in court as opposed to what he told the reporter and also trying to figure out if he heard a similar type of scream. >> and, page, actually when
trayvon martin's brother phrased it that way. yes, i heard my brother scream, but not like that before. you thought that was effective. >> i do because it's honest. i have a brother and you're never going to hear your brother scream like he is about to die when there is a gun in his face. i think it is legitimate and adds credibility to his testimony. i think it was important. >> do we have the tape now of trayvon martin's mother? we don't have it. we are working to get it for you because it was very emotional and very powerful. george, i want to go back out to you because one of the things that was kind of confusing to all of us. why did sybrina fulton and others listen to this tape in the mayor's office? >> this was the first time the decision was made to release that 911 audio tape and this was really a meeting that was called together by city officials to discuss it. also called together by benjamin
crump, the attorney that represents martin's family. this is the first time they heard that audiotape. the first time for sybrina fulton and she said when she heard that tape initially, she knew that was the voice of her son. >> all right, we'll take a break and be back with much more in "newsroom."
evidence locker open. they need to present some kind of evidence in court and it's locked in this locker and they can't get it open. once they get it open, we expect court to resume. very emotional testimony from sybrina fulton. she was asked on the stand by the state who was screaming on that 911 call. let's listen. >> while he was growing up and you were raising him, have you heard him crying or yelling? >> yes. >> i want to play a recording for you, ma'am. >> 911, do you need police, fire or medical? >> maybe both, i'm not sure. there is just someone screaming outside. >> what is the address that they're near? >> 1211 twin tree lane. >> twin tree lane? is it in sanford? >> yes. >> is it a male or female? >> it sounds like a male. >> you don't know why? >> i don't know why. i think they're yelling help. but i don't know.
>> does he look hurt to you? >> i can't see him. i don't want to go out there, i don't know what's going on. >> do you think he's yelling help? >> yes. >> all right, what is your -- >> there's gunshots. >> you just heard gunshots? >> yes. >> ma'am, that screaming or yelling, do you recognize that? >> yes. >> and who do you recognize that to be, ma'am? >> trayvon benjamin martin. >> now, keep in mind it's an all-women jury. some of the women on the jury have children themselves. so, now mark o'mara gets up and he's going to cross examine his grieving mother. let's listen to that part of the testimony? >> imagine it was probably one
of the worst things you went through to listen to that tape? >> absolutely. >> if it was, in fact, your son screaming as you testified, that would suggest that it was mr. zimmerman's fault that led to his death, correct? >> correct. >> and if it was not your son screaming, if it was, in fact, george zimmerman, then you would have to accept the probability that it was trayvon martin who caused his own death, correct? >> i don't understand your question. >> okay. if you were to listen to that tape and not hear your son's voice, that would mean that it would have been george zimmerman's voice, correct? >> and not hear my son screaming? is that what you're asking? >> yes, ma'am. >> i heard my son screaming. >> i understand. the alternative, the only alternative, would you agree, that would be if it was not your son screaming, that it would be george zimmerman, correct?
>> objection as to speculation. >> sustained. >> you certainly had to hope that was your son screaming, even before you heard it, correct sph. >> i didn't hope for anything. i just simply listened to the tape. >> so, you kind of get where mark o'mara was going. page pate was listening with me and at times you grimaced. >> it's tough for a defense to question the victim's mother. she is going to be sympathetic and emotional. you're not going to shake her testimony and not get her to change her answer. what the defense lawyer is trying to do is to suggest to the jury a very important point. as a mother, you don't want your son to be the one to blame for what happened to him. if it means you hear his voice in that tape, then you hear that voice in that tape. some lawyers would have waited until closing argument to do
that mr. oo'mara is always pushing te envelope and he did it here, again. >> you would be predisposed to think any veeming on a 911 call would be of your son and not the guy that just shot him. >> you don't want it to be your son's fault that it happened. >> courtney, let me answer this. the jury is comprised of all women. when women jurors are listening to such testimony, do you think it makes a difference as opposed to if there were fathers on that jury? >> absolutely. you always hear mothers say, i can hear my child in a screaming shopping center or mall. mothers seem to know their child's voice. for the jurors, i think it was especially compelling that you had this grieving mother who has lost this wonderful child of hers and she's articulating that, yes, that is his voice and there's no doubt about it and she would be the best person to be able to identify his voice.
>> all right. court is still in recess. evidently, still trying to get that evidence locker open. they can't get it open for some reason. although, we did see george zimmerman enter the courtroom, again. not long before court resumes. we'll take a break and be back with much more in "newsroom." my new hearing aids instantly changed my life - i feel so much younger. my husband has his confidence back. and he can enjoy the laughter of our grandkids again. i can have fun with my friends again. feeling isolated? ready to reconnect? the aarp hearing care program provided by hearusa can help. call hearusa at ... for a free hearing check-up. plus, receive a free $50 dining card when you get your free hearing check up.
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i'm carol costello. court is still in recess but we expect it to resume soon. also on the stand, trayvon martin's brother, jahvaris. he thought the screaming was that of his brother and he also testified that initially he had his doubts. mark o'mara wanted to present into evidence the tv interview done at a local cbs station where trayvon martin's brother told the reporter questioning him that he wasn't really sure if it was his brother's voice on that tape. now, the judge in the end did not allow what i'm about to show you to be presented into evidence in court. but i'd like you to listen to it anyway. let's listen. >> when you first heard the n s news, what did you think about? >> i didn't believe it. and i kind of still don't believe it, which is why it's not easy for me to talk about
it. i just think he's coming back. his dad, i was listening to zimmerman's father speak yesterday and he said something like, my brother was on top of his son and said, you're going to die tonight. that doesn't sound like my brother at all. yeah. because i think it sends the wrong message. it tells people that, you know, you can murder someone, no one sees it and you say self-defense. >> so, wasn't that exact part of the interview that they wanted admitted into trial. the part of the interview when he told the reporter, when i first listened to that tape, i wasn't sure it was my brother or not. >> that would have been a great part of the prosecution to introduce, but that's not going to happen either. the judge made the correct ruling here. mr. o'mara was trying to suggest he was inconsistent with his testimony today and he said, no, he's inconsistent with a minor
thing. >> during his testimony on the stand, he said what he said in that interview. at first he wasn't sure and he said on the stand it was just because i didn't want to believe that was my brother. like i was delutionadilutional. still, the jury left the room while the lawyers argued that that tape should be a allowed into evidence at trial and, courtney, i wanted to ask you about this. the jury left for a lengthy period of time. what are they wondering while they're out of the room? >> that's a great question. jurors are always wondering when these ten-minute breaks take 20, 30 minutes. they're not supposed to speculate as to what may or may not be presented to them. but they may be wondering based on the line of questioning by mr. o', mara, what is on that tape. >> i'm sorry y d, i didn't hear
end of your answer. so, once the jury comes back -- let me ask you this, i'm sure our audience heard you. when the jury comes back will there be an explanation from the judge? >> no. maybe they have forgotten about it, for all we know. >> also in court, which i found kind of disturbing because they can't get this evidence locker open, page. so, trayvon martin's mother will, again, have to take the stand. i'm curious what kind of evidence they're trying to get out of that locker? >> maybe they'll have his mother identify the sweatshirt or some other article of clothing he had on him at the time. we'll just have to see. >> what if she had a tape of her son screaming, would that be possible? >> that would be unusual. if you would have done that, you would have allowed the defense to have experts and say we compared this voice to this voice and it is the same. >> what is interesting of
trayvon's brother, jahvaris. they could be tougher with him than they could be with trayvon martin's mother? >> i don't know, carol. it is his brother. i think jahvaris is doing a tremendous job. he is composed. mr. o'mara is asking the questions, he is being very respectful of his presence in the courtroom. i don't think you beat up. you know, the defense attorneys have created some sort of blunders in the trial with the sensitivity issues. and i think that maybe, hopefully, they've learned that they have to treat these witnesses respectfully. and they have to, you know, not attack them. that's not going to ingreigeiate these defense attorneys and mr. zimmerman with a female jury if they keep attacking family members from the prosecution witness list. >> all right, we're going to take a break. court is still in recess. we'll be right back.
court is still in recess, so at 51 minutes past the hour let's go over the top news of the day. a day of oh celebration turned dangerous for many across the u.s. at a fireworks display in california's simi valley. at least 28 people were hurt when fireworks started sthooting into the crowd. [ screaming ] >> authorities are calling what happened an accident. in washington state, illegal fireworks set off this fire. you're looking at $1.5 million in damage after a firework landed on a boat cover at a storage facility. 14 boats were destroyed in just seven minutes. an explosion in north myrtle beach left a worker to a hospital after a shell exploded early. that blast blew a hole in a
pier. we are going to the jobless numbers. the numbers are out. friday's numbers are out and the report is actually fairly good. let's head to new york. allison will break it down for us. good morning. >> good morning. this was a good-looking report. 195,000 jobs added in june. the unemployment rate held steady at 7.6%. look deeper to see the numbers were led by gains in the category called leisure and hospitality. jobs at restaurants. that's a good sign in another way because it shows a lot of us going on vacation. we are spending more at restaurants that feel they need to add more jobs there. you look at the total number. it bring it is average number of jobs added per month this year from january to june to about 202,000 per month ott. that's pretty good. we may be back on track to break two years of stagnant growth for the labor market.
the bad news is the participation rate. it's too low. there are discouraged workers who have thrown their hands up and aren't getting into the labor pool to find jobs. let's end with the glass half full. we are seeing a good average of the number of jobs added to the economy per month, especially when you look at the first half of thor year. >> thanks so much. so they've got things fixed with the evidence locker. court has resumed. trayvon martin's brother takes the stand. let's listen.
>> we're ready, your honor. >> please be seated. ladies and gentlemen, i apologize for the extended break. we were having technical difficulties in the courtroom that have now been resolved. you may proceed. >> thank you, your honor. good morning, sir. >> good morning. >> when we took a break i was asking you your memory of the question that mr. benitez asked
you and i think you didn't remember the question specifically. is that correct? ? >> yes. >> but leading up to that, we talked about -- listened to the tape and the mayor's office in sanford some time a couple weeks before. do you agree? >> yes. >> that was with all the other family members. >> yes. >> and the civil attorneys representing the family, the civil attorneys representing the family ben cronk and natalie jackson. >> yes. >> you listened to it at least twice that day. >> correct. . >> it was even played for other family members more often than twice, right? >> i'm not aware of that. >> okay. you don't recall whether or not you listened to it between the first two times you heard it in the mayor's office and your conversation with mr. benitez?
>> i don't remember. >> it was, of course, available to you. correct? >> what do you mean? >> well, at that point the city of sanford made the decision to release the calls to the general public, right? >> i don't know. by never had the tapes myself. >> okay. did there come a time in between the first two times you heard it and your conversation with mr. benitez that you wanted to listen to it again but couldn't? >> say it again. >> the two-week period between the first two times you listened to it and the time you talked to mr. benitez during that period of time did you ever ask someone to listen to it again and be denied? >> no. >> in your mind listening to it the first two times was what you needed to hear, correct? >> not what i needed. i didn't want to listen to them again.
>> yet your answers earlier remained the same, of course. you said what you said to mr. benitez about not being sure who it was on the tape, correct? >> yes. you actually have listened to it many times since, haven't you? >> yes. >> okay. was there a reason why in between the first two weeks you didn't want to listen to it but you were okay with listening to it 10, 15 times afterwards? >> yeah. it's emotional. i didn't want to listen to it again. >> you have listened to it at least ten times since, correct? >> well, no, in total ten times. so maybe eight separate occasions. >> you said a moment ago that you lived in the house with
sabrina fullteen and trayvon martin, correct? >> yes. >> tracy wasn't living there at that point? >> no. >> when you say you considered tracy martin to be your dad he left the home a long time ago, correct? >> yes. they got -- >> how old were you when he left the home? >> 9 or 10. >> and trayvon martin? >> might have been 5. >> the two of you didn't really hang out, did you? you and trayvon martin. >> yes. it depends what you're talking about. >> you didn't have the same friends, correct? >> no. >> if you were to go out
somewhere you may have gone out to do something with your friends and he may have gone out with his friends. >> correct. >> as brothers you said you would do things together. you didn't run in the same circles, did you? >> no. >> you didn't interact with him on facebook. >> not really, no. >> nor on twitter. >> no. >> but you did interact with your other friends and on the social media sites, correct? >> occasionally, yes. >> may i have a moment, your honor? >> you may.
>> when tracy martin left the home he got remarried, didn't he? >> some years later, yes. >> was trayvon martin spending -- the new wife was alicia, correct? >> yes. >> did you spend a lot of time with your dad at that house? >> yes. >> and did trayvon martin spend time there? >> yes. >> he was more living there in the last few years, wasn't he? >> not really. >> what do you mean by that? >> well, when? let me see, i guess growing up we usually spent the weekends over there or whenever we wanted, want wanted, i guess, we could go over. towards the end, it was about thanks, judge.
mr. fulton, you were asked about listening to that 911 call with your brother's screams on oh it for the first time at the mayor's office. was that emotionally difficult for you to hear? >> yes. >> were you still in denial about your brother's death at that point? >> yes. >> you don't recall listening to the tape again between the time you heard it at the mayor's office and the interview. is that what you're saying? >> yes. >> but you did tell the interviewer that you would like to think it's your brother's voice but you weren't completely positive. is that what you told him? >> yes. >> object, your honor. >> since that time of the interview you had an
opportunity. you said possibly eight more times to listen to it? >> yes. >> do you now believe it is trayvon martin's voice yelling for help on the tape? >> yes. >> you were asked about growing up. how old were you approximately when your mother sabrina martin and tracy fulton divorced? >> about 9. >> as i understood what you said after that point you primarily lived with your mother. you would visit tracy on the weekends. >> yes. >> would trayvon martin go with you to visit? >> yes. >> you now go to fiu, correct? >> yes. >> did you go before that to a different college.
>> back in the fall of '11 and the first months of 2012 you were actually at fiu back in miami. >> yes. >> thank you, sir. >> can mr. fulton be excused? >> yes, ma'am. >> thank you very much, sir. you may be excused. the state, please call your next witness. >> state will recall issabrina fult fulton. >> did you hear the questions? >> yes. you are still under oath. please approach. >> all right. while the lawyers the do the sidebar, let's talk about the testimony. it seems to me that on cross they were trying to get trayvon martin's brother to say, well, i
didn't really spend that much time with my brother. maybe i don't really know what he sounds like. >> i didn't understand the point of the cross-examination. i don't think it was effective. this is one of the first times mr. o'mara has fallen short. there was no reason to confront him that way and ask the questions. didn't spend much time with him. i don't think the jury responded well to that. >> he's so much older than trayvon martin. five or six years older. in a normal, usual family relationship when you're college age you're really not as connected to your high school aged brother. >> it's still your brother. my brother is four years younger than i am. we're not always going out together. i will still recognize his voice if i hear it on a tape. >> trayvon martin's mother sabrina is back on the stand. there was a long break while attorneys talked about whether certain evidence could be introduced at trial and -- do you think the jury -- they
didn't forget what she says. i didn't want to say that. the emotion wasn't lessened in any way. do you think? >> no. it might be good for the prosecution. they get to see her dwen. -- again. i'm curious what the evidence is. when they started, they stipulated the body was trayvon martin's. they don't need mrs. fulton to describe the clothing that they were trayvon's sneakers, sweatshirt. i'm curious what they want her to present. >> you have been inside the courtroom. tell us what the mood is like in there. >> well, this morning i have been doing a lot of live reporting, monitoring the feed from the courtroom. i can tell you certainly the mood of sabrina fulton is one that she's composed. she's answered the questions, very short answers but has never really wavered in what she said.
she says the voice she heard was the voice of her son. doing her best to find bias to suggest bias in what she says. her testimony in court, also looking for inconsistencies and doubt in what jahvaris fulton says. it will be interesting to see what they ask her. >> since her son died she's been very vocal. she's done a lot of public speaking. she's been on television shows, addressed town halls on violence and racial healing. she campaigned against florida's stand your ground law and she's used to being in the public eye. >> she is. i want to read something to you. she sent out a tweet earlier basically asking for strength to move forward today. you can tell this is something she's been getting ready for, preparing for. sent out this tweet this morning. this ises something she's been trying to prepare herself for to
testify. really speaking on behalf of her son. >> she actually -- the new york times interviewed her before trial. i want to read a quote out of the new york times article. she was asked if she could forgive george zimmerman. this is how she answered the question. quote, the spiritual side of me knowses i have to forgive him so i don't block my blessings. am i ready now? i am not. i pray for my forgiveness. just like i want god to forgive me, i want to forgive others. i'm not at that point now where i can say that i want to forgive him. that says something. >> she's a mother. she's trying. she's a spiritual person. ultimately maybe the trial will give her closure. having to be called on the stand is difficult but it should be ending soon. >> she said in the past she wanted her day in court. then whatever the decision is
she will live with it. she said it many times. >> absolutely. today you can tell that when she delivered those answers it's something she had no doubt about. when she heard the audio on the tape she said that's the voice of her son. you will remember though that tracy martin had a different response. he said initially that was not the voice of his son. then hearing it more decided the it was, in fact, the voice of trayvon martin. so you do see her today getting to say publically what she said a all along. now on the record in the trial. >> in light of what george said is it likely tracy martin will be called to the stand today, too? >> i don't think so. i think they are going to belabor the point, the defense will. to talk for a second about sybrina fulton, when i was prosecuting murder cases and we talk about the closure page talked about it's true.
the fact that ta criminal case is pendingss gives the family a sense their loved one is alive, still with them. this will be an impactful day for ms. fulton. in a sense this trial will be over and she will have testified on his behalf. there will be a sense of loss after the trial regardless of the verdict for her. >> most assuredly. the attorneys are in sidebar, i think. i see one of the -- okay, the sidebar is over. i saw one of the prosecuting attorneys return to the seat. let's listen. they haven't turned the audio on. it must be agonizing for her.
>> she's certainly prayed about it, asked for strength. she seems very composed and she's doing a great job. >> we'll take a break. we'll be right back and hopefully court will resume. we'll be right back. ♪ take me into your darkest hour ♪ ♪ and i'll never desert you ♪ ♪ i'll stand by you yeaaaah! yeah. so that's our loyalty program. you're automatically enrolled, and the longer you stay, the more rewards you get. great! oh! ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ won't let nobody hurt you ♪ isn't there a simpler way to explain the loyalty program? yes. standing by you from day one. now, that's progressive.
okay. it's been a frustrating day in court. they have taken a five-minute recess. you see george zimmerman standing as the jury exits the courtroom. while we wait for court to resume i want to check in with michael skolnick with the martin foundation. are you there? >> i am here. how are you? good morning. >> first of all, tell people briefly what the martin foundation is. >> sure. i'm on the board of directors of the trayvon martin foundation. it was started by his parents
sybrina and tracy. >> you know trayvon martin's parents well. >> yes. >> as you watch the proceedings what's going through your mind? >> it's a tough day. i spoke to sybrina, tracy and jahvaris last night. this is a day the family never wanted to have in their lives to testify at the murder trial of their child and brother. i think sybrina was remarkable this morning. a woman of grace. an amazing parent. i think jahvaris's testimony shows these young men had incredible parents who were always present. he's a college student. trayvon martin was on his way to college when he turned 18. she was incredible. the questions from mr. o'mara about whether you hoped the voice was your son no mother in the world would hope to hear their child's voice being beaten, a gun to him, ultimately
killed. so no mother ever wants to have this day in their lives. sybrina certainly today was remarkable on the stand. i know she is about to take the stand again. our prayers are with her from the trayvon martin foundation and those who have supported her. >> i think the defense was getting at if you're a mother and you know your child was shot and killed you have a preconceived notion, even if you vice president heard the tape, when you hear the screams on the tape your mind would go there that that's my son. you wouldn't think it was the other guy. >> i think we have to remember the first two weeks after trayvon martin was killed the police department of sanford wasn't going to charge george zimmerman. there was a lot of conversation about what evidence they had about george zimmerman. we didn't know at that time anything about this case. there wasn't any communication really between the family and the police department. in fact, trayvon martin, let us not forget was a john doe. they put him in the morgue
because they didn't think he lived in the neighborhood. i think sybrina at that point in the middle of march had no idea what happened. had no idea a guy was following her son who was a, quote/unquote, neighborhood watchmen. i don't think she had any idea what she was going to hear. any mother in this country could identify their child's voice whether it's screaming, yelling, happy, laughing or what have you. she immediately and defiantly said it was her son. i don't think she was trying to prove a point to the police at that time. certainly not now. she knew it was her son's voice. >> stay with me, michael. i want to play for the audience and you that sybrina fulton was the state's first witness. we were surprised by that. maybe they wanted to get it out of the way. although she's on the stand again. i want to play for our viewers her testimony this morning as to the screams on the 911 call. do we have the tape?
we're getting it. it was very emotional. george zimmerman is standing up. we'll play that tape later. michael, how did sybrina prepare before court today. >> she prayed. she is a woman of god. this is a very religious family. they pray every day before they walk to the courtroom. i will be there on monday with them. they prayefore they walk in the courtroom and every time they leave. she's certainly a woman of faith and a believer in god. she prayed a lot this morning and continues to pray. >> let's listen now. >> this button here. >> yes. >> is this a button your son always wore, mr. trayvon martin always wore? >> yes. >> thank you. no further questions. >> any cross? >> no, thank you, your honor. >> thank you. may ms. fulton be excused? >> yes, your honor. >> thank you very much, ma'am.
call your next witness. >> i would call dr. bow. i guess it was a redirect. trayvon martin's mother identified a button coming from her son's clothing that day. on the stand next we believe is the medical examiner. as we wait for the medical examiner to take the oath, to come into the courtroom, that was strange, page. they couldn't get the evidence locker open this morning. they were trying to get the button out. that's why sybrina had to leave the stand and come back later. the significance of this? >> i don't understand it at all. if the issue is to get that piece of evidence in court i'm sure the defense would stipulate to it. it seemed awkward. i'm sure the jury wonders the
>> what is your occupation, sir? >> i am the associate medical examiner in seminole county. >> if you could briefly tell us about your specialty, what area of practice you have and your education background, training. >> i received my medical degree in china. came to the united states in 1992 when i was 29 years old to pursue the american dream. i did my pathology training in birmingham, alabamai, and finished my forensic fellowship in the terant county medical examiner's county. then i worked in texas for two
years before coming to florida. i am certified by american board of pathology in clinical and forensic pathology. i have medical licenses in the states of florida and texas. i am a member of the national association of medical examiners. >> dr. bao, if we could, please explain to the jury when you talk about forensic pathology what it means. >> as a med examiner in forensic pathology i review medical records and the reports from our investigators and the police department. i do autopsies to determine the cause and the manner of death. also, i serve as the fact
witness and expert witness in court such as today. >> how long have you been with your current position of the medical examiner's office in the 7th circuit -- is it -- and seminole counties? >> yes. our office covers both counties. >> can you explain what an autopsy is? >> autopsy means to see for yourself. it is the post modern examination of the human being to determine the cause and manner of death. the cause of death is either injury or disease. injuries such as gunshot wound to the head, stab wound to the chest or blunt force trauma due to motor vehicle accident.
diseases such as heart disease, cancer or stroke. the manner of death is classified in five categories -- homicide -- >> all right. while dr. bao goes through his credentials we'll take a break. we'll be right back with more testimony from sanford. we know it's your videoconference of the day. hi! hi, buddy! that's why the free wifi and hot breakfast are something to smile about. book a great getaway now and feel the hamptonality
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he performed the autopsy on trayvon martin. he just said in testimony that trayvon martin died of a gunshot wound to the chest, and he ruled the death a homicide. let's listen. >> as eyunidentified human body. he was not identified at the time. all we nknow is he was a black boy. he was shot. he is dead. there is no name. no age. first thing in the morning we did an x-ray, tried to locate the bullets or fragments of bullet. we found out he had some fragments in the lower chest. his body was sealed in a plastic bag with number 0000517. after we looked at x-ray, so we
opened the bag. we saw a black boy, 71 inches long, 158 pounds. he had a defect, a hole, on the anteri anterior, sweatshirt with blood. under the sweatshirt there was another t-shirt. again there was blood, the defect and soot -- s-o-o-t, soot. after we removed the clotheses we saw a defect on his left lower cheft, 3/8 inch diameter, round with soot with green aberration around wound with
stippling also called powder tattooing. after we removed the skin there was a defect between the left n anterior number five and number six ribs. so the bullet went directly from anterior to posterior through anterior pericardial sac which is the tissue around the heart, through the right ventricle of the heart. anterior right ventricle of the heart. through posterior right ventricle of the heart. through posterior pericardial sac. at that point the bullet was found behind the right ventricle. two fragments of the jacket went right through his right lower
lobe of the lung. we have three lobes on the right, two lobes on the right. the bullet went through the right lower lobe of the t lung. two fragments was recovered in the right lower cavity. at that point, trayvon martin, i believe was still alive. his heart was still beating. every time his heart was beating some of the blood would go to the front right ventricle, to the pulmonary artery to the lung and supply his brain. i believe, it is my opinion that he was still alive. he was still in pain. he was still in suffering -- >> objection, your honor. that's not a relevant issue at this time -- >> it's relevant. >> just a second. i'm sorry. your objection is relevance?
overruled. >> he is in suffering. he is in pain. >> i would object to speculation then. >> no, i -- >> wait, wait. if there is an objection, i have to rule on it. please, just wait. counsel, please approach. >> all right. so the attorneys are conducting a sidebar right now with the judge. talk about powerful testimony. the medical examiner just testified that trayvon martin's heart was still beating which means he could still have been talking after he was shot. is that the significance of this, page? >> perhaps that's part of it. they want to show he was suffering. he was in pain. he didn't die instantly. so the defense got up and said, wait a minute. that's not relevant. we know he died. the judge overruled the objection and did so strongly. the defense said, maybe we'll try something else. it's speculation.
that's the issue they are taking up now. >> we heard the term "stippling" around the bullet wound. what does that mean? >> the gun must have been fairly close to the person who was shot. once a gun is fired you will get all kinds of residue and particulate matter that could embed into the skin. it has to do with the distance of the shot. >> we are looking at a graphic we had on screen. the doctor described how the bullet went into, i think, the right side of trayvon martin's chest. is that correct? >> i believe that was the testimony. >> also punctured a lung. i know that. we're going to take a break. we'll be back with more from inside the courtroom after this. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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will it make life better? does it deserve to exist? we spend a lot of time on a few great things. until every idea we touch enhances each life it touches. you may rarely look at it. but you'll always feel it. this is our signature. and it means everything. all right. let's go back to the courtroom. the medical examiner is on stand. he conducted the autopsy on trayvon martin. he's testified that martin died
from a gunshot wound. he ruled the death a homicide and intimated there was pain involved -- that trayvon martin didn't die right away. let's listen to more testimony. >> when you say he's 71 inches or 5'11" is the body put on a table and there is something that measured them? >> it is a length. we measure the body in length because a dead man cannot stand. it's not height. >> in other words, a body after a person dies does not grow or anything or shrink. it stays the same. >> yes. >> did you determine his age as being 17 years old, sir? >> one day after the autopsy he was identified by his father. at that point, february 28, 2012. >> he was 17 years old? >> yes. >> was his date of birth you determined february 5, 1995? >> yes. february 5, 1995. >> okay.
dr. bao, i want to show you photographs. you briefly mentioned does your office have an investigator go to the scene where the shooting is? >> yes. >> did one go in this case? >> yes. >> does the investigator make sure the body is sealed in a bag that we are going to show photographs of? >> yes. >> when you performed the autopsy, do you have assistants helping you? >> yes. >> in this case two? >> i have two assistants. >> in terms of the autopsy the assistants work under your supervision and they are in the same area as you? >> yes. >> okay. >> our are photographs taken to document the relevant evidence you will talk to the jury about? >> yes. >> all right. if we could, dr. bao, i will show you state exhibit 81. do you recognize that photograph, sir? >> yes. >> what is that a photograph of, sir? >> can i have something to
point -- >> i apologize. we need a pointer. thank you. this little button right here. may i approach the witness, your honor? >> yes, you may. >> right here. >> this is a photo -- >> i'm sorry to interrupt. may i have the physical exhibit so i can follow along with what's coming? are these all in evidence already? >> the photos. >> yeah, they're in evidence. >> yes. so there may be -- >> they are right there if you would like to look through them or keep them at your desk, as long as the clerk gets them back. >> as the court is aware we tried to expedite things by premarking. >> if you need those, you can
just look through and take them back. >> should be 81 through 108. >> okay. >> thank you, your honor. >> you're welcome. >> you may proceed. >> state's exhibit 81. do you recognize that? tell us what that photograph depicts, sir. >> okay. this is a photo of plastic bag carried trayvon martin. >> okay. >> 12 means 2012, year of 2012. 24 means seminole county. 043 means this is 43 cases from the year. 150 pounds. >> all right.
let me show you state's exhibit 82. what does this photograph show? >> this shows black male case number unidentified number three. this is, again, the case number. this is f, feet. >> okay. state's exhibit 83, is that -- >> this is another view of the body bag. feet, and the case number. >> okay oh. state's exhibit 84, what does that photograph show, sir? >> this is volusia county medical examiner. seal number 0000517. case number. nobody can open the bag before we look at it. >> in other words when the bag comes -- let me go back a second to 81, 82, 83, 84. the bag is sealed where the body
is sealed in the container. it comes to your office and you all opened that up. is that correct? >> yes. >> okay. let me show you state's exhibit 99. you previously talked about an x-ray. when you said x-ray, is that x-ray taken before the body is removed from the bag? >> no. before the body was removed from the bag we took the x-ray, tried to locate the bullet fragments. this is one of them. the spine is right. there is a fragment in the area of the heart. >> okay. >> there are two fragments in the area of the right lung. there is another view of x-ray, spine, stomach, colon. arm is right. again you can see this lead core in the area of the heart and two
more fragments of jacket in the area of the lung. >> when the body come ohs to you, dr. bao, is this photograph showing how the body is exactly in terms of clothing that trayvon martin was wearing, state's exhibit 85? >> yes. >> okay. so this is the first photo we took, case number, defect on the sweatshirt with some debris. this is blue plastic bag. >> okay. when you talk about defect you are talking about what ends up killing him, the gunshot wound. >> defect means the hole. >> okay. state's exhibit 86, what does that show, dr. bao? >> this is another view of his body. defect here. case number, his hand and two
legs. >> at this point you're trying to photograph just showing the legs or part of the leg. >> normally we use three photos to cover the whole body. >> state's exhibit 87, does that show -- tell us what it shows. i'm sorry. >> this is another view of trayvon martin, case number and the shoes and the pants. >> state's exhibit 101, i guess i apologize. after the body come ohs in, is the clothing then removed, you observe that and go to the body itself? >> yes. >> state's exhibit 101, what does that photograph show? >> this is sweatshirt, the orange marker points to the defect on the left chest. >> state's exhibit 102, is that a close-up of what you refer to as a defect or the hole that
caused the gunshot wound? >> yes. caused by the gunshot wound. >> okay. state's exhibit 103, what does that show? >> this is the back view of the hoodie sweatshirt. appears to be wet. >> state's exhibit 104, what does that photograph show, dr. bao? >> this is another sweatshirt under the hole in the sweatshirt. the blood, the defect, the marker. the black appears to be soot, s-o-o-t, soot. again we have the case number. >> dr. bao, just to make sure the jury understands, state's exhibit -- i'm going back to state's exhibit 85.
was that sweatshirt we talked about under this hoodie sweatshirt? >> yes. >> state's exhibit 104, is that the front part of the sweatshirt? >> yes. >> okay. state's exhibit 105, what does that photograph show? >> this is just a close-up of the previous one. again, you can see there the defect, blood and the soot which is burned powder from the gun. >> state's exhibit 106, what does that photograph show? >> this is the back view of shirt. there is no defect which means there is no exit wound. >> state's exhibit 107, what does that photograph show? >> this is the pants. appears to be wet and some
debris. >> okay. is that the front part of the pants? >> front view. >> okay. state's exhibit 108, what does that show? >> it's the back view of the pants. >> state's exhibit 88. what does that photograph show, dr. bao? >> this is trayvon martin. 17 years old. >> is that a photograph to show the upperer part of his body? >> yeah. normally we have three photos. this is from head to abdomen. >> obviously this right here is just for photography purposes and has been blacked out. correct? >> yes. >> okay. >> there was a defect, left lower chest. other than that, trayvon martin was healthy. there was no disease. no injury. other injury other than gunshot wound. >> okay. you stated, i believe, he
weighed 158 pounds. is that correct? >> yes. we weighed by ourselves. >> okay. state's exhibit 89, what does that show? >> this is a photograph the of trayvon martin from the chest to the knee. again we show the defect. other than this defect, there is no disease. no injury. >> while we have this photograph i will circle the hands. did you make observations as to the hands, sir? >> yes. >> did you observe any blood? we'll talk about an injury in the left hand. did you observe blood on the hands. >> other than some small aberrations on left fifth finger and the left fourth finger there were no other injuries, no other disease. >> okay. did you observe any blood on the hands at all? >> no.
>> state's exhibit, what is that photograph? >> this is trayvon martin from the thigh to the feet. again, no disease. no injury. >> dr. bao, state's exhibit 91. what does that photograph show? >> this is the back view of trayvon martin from the head to this area. there is no disease. no injury. . >> state's exhibit 92. what does that show? >> this is another view of trayvon martin's back. there is no disease, no injury. >> okay. state's exhibit 93, what does that photograph show? >> this is trayvon martin's back from the thigh to the feet. again there is no disease, no injury. >> dr. bao, now showing you state's exhibit 94. what does that photograph show, sir? >> this photograph shows the
defect on the left lower chest. >> okay. >> 3/8 inch diameter. >> i'm sorry? >> 3/8-inch diameter round defe defect. we can use the close-up one. >> before i get to that you have a me showing thing and the measurement itself? >> this has both the scale and the case number. >> okay. let me show you state's exhibit 95. tell us what the photograph shows, dr. bao. >> this photograph shows the defect with green aberration around the defect consistent with entrance wound. also we can see the soot -- s-o-o-t -- and the two by two
inch area of stippling also called powder tattoo iing whichs penetrating aberrations caused by burned powder from the gun. >> dr. bao, how can you positively say that what i'm certain b of right here is the entrance wound, the gunshot wound. how can you say that's the entrance wound? >> because the entrance wound is different from exit wound. exit wound normally elongated and normally there is no soot, no stippling. this case is one of the easiest cases in my office. there is no exit wound. has to be entrance wound. >> you find the fragments of the bullet inside his body. there is no exit. >> yeah. i have 100% confidence, i look at this wound, i can make a judgment this is the entrance wound of intermediate range in
first three seconds. >> what was the end of the answer? >> in first three seconds i look at the wound with 100% confidence. >> dr. bao, i believe -- state's exhibit 96. tell us if you can -- go ahead and tell us. >> this is fat tissue, adipose fat tissue under the skin. again this is entrance wound with stippling and soot. consistent with entrance wound. >> okay. i'm going to ask you in a few minutes about the soot. is this what you are talking about with soot or stippling? >> the black one, this is soot. >> okay. >> this is stippling. >> is that from the shooting of
the gun in terms of the bullet? >> yes. >> state's exhibit 97, what does that photograph show? >> this is superficial aberration caused by blunt force trauma, one-quarter by one-eighth inch aberration on left fourth finger. >> and you found something on the pinky finger. >> there are small. i cannot use ruler to measure them. two of them much less than 1/16 inch. two small aberrations on left fifth finger. >> other than the gunshot wound that you have talked about which i'm going back for the record to state's exhibit 96 and state's exhibit number 97, the injuries you describe to the left -- i believe -- is this the left
hand, by the way? >> yes, left hand. >> did you find any other injury on any other part of his body? in other words did you find any injurieses to his right hand at all? >> no. >> state's exhibit 100, is this what you ended up recovering from the body? >> this is the lead core from bullet. i recovered this one in the pericardial sac behind right ventricle of the heart. >> okay. >> these two are fragments of jacket recovered in the right pleural cavity behind the right lower lobe of the lung. >> let me go to state's exhibit 95 for context. tell us, if you could, dr. bao, when that bullet entered the
chest of trayvon martin what happened? how did he die? if you could, tell the jury. >> the bullet went straight directly from the front to the back with perforations of anterior wall of the space between fifth and sixth ribs. the bullet went through the right ventricle of the heart went through the posterior wall of the right ventricle of the haerlt -- heart. we recovered blood in the right
pleural cavity. 1,000 milliliters of blood in the left cavity. i believe he was alive for one to ten minutes after he was shot. his heart was beating until there was no blood left. at that point his heart stopped. >> so this would be an obvious question. this was a fatal shot. is that correct? >> there are two holes on the right ventricle of the heart. >> in terms of the track of the bullet is it straight, up or down on the body. i know you have to look at the body anatomically correct. >> in my opinion it's straight
from the front to the back. >> it's a straight shot right into the heart basically. >> yes. >> if you could, explain to the jury when you say stippling and soot what you mean. i will progress to state's exhibit 96. if you could, explain what we mean by stippling and soot. >> the meaning of oh sosoot and stippling so we can make a diagnosis of intermediate range. in my autopsy i gave three ranges of shooting. contact in the immediate and intermediate. >> let's talk about contact would be, what, literally you say the muzzle of the gun is on the skin itself? >> contact entrance wound is complete from this one. >> repeat it, please. >> contact entrance wound is
completely different from -- >> this is not a contact wound to the skin itself. >> i look at contact entrance wounds every day in my office. if it is contact there will be skin laceration. if there is clothes there will be the imprint of the fiber of the clotheses. in this case i have 100% confidence this is intermediate range of shooting. >> when you say intermediate range, what is that range? are you able to determine or give your opinion as to what the range could be? >> a definition? >> yes, sir. >> intermediate range is when you see the stippling. so you see stippling in the intermediate range. you need to see the stippling. >> what would be the range you would opine is consistent with this, sir? >> i look at many bookses.
i try to find out what is the range for intermediate range. >> is that .4 -- >> i need to explain to the jury. >> please explain to the jury. >> the range of shooting is my opinion, not a fact. the fact is there is a defect on the chest. there is soot. there is stippling. use this. i have my opinion. the fact is different from opinion. for the fact there is no right or wrong. just truth or false. >> i object. to the witness's classification of the fact versus opinion. >> let me ask you a question specifically. >> fact and opinion is very important in the justice system. >> hold on, dr. ba ork. >> you have to let them ask the
question, sir. >> let me ask you a question. >> yes. >> there are different ranges in terms of -- you mentioned contact, intermediate. is that range from .4 inches up to four feet? >> yes. i looked at many books. >> i'm going to ask you about that in a minute. >> the range is not the fact. it's opinion. >> nonresponsive. >> mr. bao, you have to wait for the question and then provide an answer. thank you. >> dr. bao, we'll get into it. assuming there were no kroet clotheses you have the intermediate range .4 inches up to four feet. is that correct? >> yes. i did not measure. all i have is from the book. >> yes, sir. >> it's my opinion. >> yes, sir. i will get into your opinion explaining to the jury system very important. >> yes, sir. did you determine since he was wearing clotheses this would be called -- what's the word? >> intermediate -- intermediary
target. there are two different terms. >> tell us about those, if you could. >> okay. t the intermediary target means the object between the bullet and the target including the clo clothing, materials in the pocket in other case could be car windows, could be arms, we have intermediary target. it is more difficult to determine the range of shooting. >> so in this case you had clothing -- >> yes. >> you had two sweatshirts there were acting as that, correct? >> yes. >> okay. does that help you account -- you're saying in terms of the
range that it served as an in-between. the muzzle of the gun and the skin. is that correct? ? >> no. >> the clothing -- >> it's different. >> tell me what the effect the clothing had. >> the clothing will block some soot and some material from the gunshot. i want to explain to you how i did this autopsy, how i determined the range. >> yes, sir. please explain -- >> the intermediate range is by definition. not by measurement. you are going by what's classified -- >> by definition of intermediate
range. nobody can use the eye to oh determine the range. there is no such thing. you mentioned some barrier between the muzzle of the gun and the body. >> yes. >> based on your examination of the clothing and the body, do you believe there was some exact by the clothing with the muzzle of the gun. >> i believe there is loose contact. >> tell us about that. >> the contact including loose contact and hard contact. if it was hard contact i would see some imprint of fiber of the clothes over here. so i did not see that. i believe this is loose contact to the clothes which caused the
stippling pattern on the skin. >> can you say how loose it was? >> i don't know. just loose contact. >> how about what's been referred to as the hoodie and another sweatshirt? does that add an additional barrier in terms of loose? >> i cannot tell. >> okay. i want to talk about the position of the body when shot. >> okay. >> in the movies and on tv they say we can tell you how it happened. are you able based on the autopsy able to say exactly the position that trayvon martin was -- >> good morning. i'm ashley banfield live in sanford, florida. we are at the top of the hour. the prosecutor in the trayvon martin second-degree murder case is questioning the final witness. critical to get you up to speed on how the case is wrapping up today.