tv CNN Newsroom CNN July 5, 2013 8:00am-9:01am PDT
stippling pattern on the skin. >> can you say how loose it was? >> i don't know. just loose contact. >> how about what's been referred to as the hoodie and another sweatshirt? does that add an additional barrier in terms of loose? >> i cannot tell. >> okay. i want to talk about the position of the body when shot. >> okay. >> in the movies and on tv they say we can tell you how it happened. are you able based on the autopsy able to say exactly the position that trayvon martin was -- >> good morning. i'm ashley banfield live in sanford, florida. we are at the top of the hour. the prosecutor in the trayvon martin second-degree murder case is questioning the final witness. critical to get you up to speed on how the case is wrapping up today. first on the stand with powerful
testimony, trayvon martin's mother. second on the stand, trayvon martin's brother. both of them testifying to who it was scream iing on the 911 cl the night trayvon died. both testifying that was trayvon martin. the brother having to admit i wasn't so certain when i was questioned earlier on oh in this case. back in with the medical examiner testifying as to the injury, bullet wound and contact made with the droopy sweatshirt so critical as to the position of trayvon's body during the fight. let's listen. >> i need to ek plain to the jury how i have an opinion. opinion is based on the fact and my lifetime learning experience.
>> you are talk about other autopsies. >> yes. i believe trayvon martin was alive for one to ten minutes from when he was shot. >> you are giving a range. >> i gave a margin offer error. the reason i gave ten minutes was because three weeks ago -- >> let me stop you. they don't need to know. you have prior cases you dealt with. >> yes. >> that's fine. >> okay. are you saying his brain is technically alive in other words? >> yes. >> that's what you mean by still alive in terms of conscious. his brain is still alive? >> yes. >> he can still feel pain in other words. can you say one way or the other?
>> a critical moment in the trial. this medical examiner saying trayvon martin could have been alive for up to ten minutes after being shot. did he feel pain? yes, according to this witness. could he have moved? perhaps his arms, no. let's listen. >> we recovered fragments of bullets from trayvon martin's body. >> so that is all in one exhibit. is that correct? >> yes. >> your honor, may i publish that to the jury. >> yes, you may.
observed the hands, other than the abrasions we are going to talk about, did you observe blood on his hands? >> no. >> did you observe any other injury to his hands other than the one documented. >> no. >> objection oh oh. asked and answered. >> sustained. >> if you had observed other injuries to his hands would you have taken photograph of those injurieses. >> yes, i should. >> i'm going now to state's exhibit number 97. i'm going to ask you about what's depicted in the photograph. if you could, tell us about t s this. when you said abrasion, what do you mean? >> it's a superficial injury from blunt force trauma. this injury, in my opinion could have happened before trayvon martin met george zimmerman. could have happened -- >> it's not responsive to a question. this is, again, a narrative. >> overruled.
go ahead now and ask your next question. >> my question is are you able to say when this occurred? tell us in terms of what you mean when this occurred. when this injury could have occurred. >> it could have occurred two hours before he died. could have happened right after shooting on the way down to the ground. could have happened during the physical struggle. >> it could have happened two hours before. even came into contact with the person who shot him. could have happened during the shooting and even after he was shot he fell to the ground? >> yes. >> okay. tell us the size of this abrasion. >> one quarter by one eighth. >> can you compare it to other injuries of the skin in terms of contusions or lacerations?
can you tell us about abrasion? >> there are three types of blunt force trauma. first superficial injury of the skin. first is aberration. second is a laceration, a break of the skin which caused bleeding. tird is a contusion which means skin is still intact but there is hemorrhage under the skin. so aberration, laceration, contusion. >> so you are getting from less severe to more severe. is that correct? >> yes. >> the abrasion would be less severe. >> yes. >> you didn't have evidence of contusion to the finger here or did you? >> you mentioned there was something on the fifth fingerer or pinky of the left hand. >> yes. >> am i circling it. >> yes.
the small abrasion is too small. i have no opinion. >> would you expect bleeding to occur? >> the blood is inside. >> i'm sorry? >> the blood is in the capillary. that's why we see the red stuff. >> would this be classified as a scratch to the skin? >> yes. >> i apologize. we don't need the light back on. thank you. may i approach the witness? dr. bao, as part of the autopsy did you do what's referred to as finger nail scrapings? >> yes. i didn't do that. >> persons under you? >> yes. >> state's exhibit 191. do you recognize that, sir? >> yes. >> are those the two -- i will
call them little sticks. i don't know how you referred to them. >> yes. >> are those one for the right, one for the left hand. >> yes. >> is the stick -- does it go under the finger nail all on the right and then the left. >> every fingers. >> okay. >> also as part of the autopsy is dna or a blood card taken from trayvon martin's body. specifically state's exhibit 186. >> yes.
>> finally, sir, let me show you state's exhibit number 98. is this what's called an identification photograph? >> yes. i believe there is a stipulation to read it to florida. >> the state of florida his defendant and attorney stipulate to the following. the body examined on february 27, 2012 by dr. shping bao bearing case number 12-24-043 is that of trayvon benjamin martin. >> dr. bao, i know you talked about the gunshot wound entrance was from the front and straight to the heart. is that correct? >> yes.
>> keep your questions or comments to me, not to each other. >> state's exhibit number #95, guess is this the heart would be directly behind this wound or where would it be if you were looking at this photograph? >> i cannot tell from this photo. >> okay. >> we cut the pericardial sac and saw the heart. >> you can't tell from this photograph. but -- >> you cannot tell the bullet went through the heart. you have to open the body to see it.
>> thank you, your honor. >> may i have a moment? >> you may. >> we'll take a ten-minute recess. please put your note pads face down on the chair. follow deputy jarvis back into the jury room. >> as george zimmerman stands for the jury to leave the courtroom for a brief break. we'll tell you the significance of what we have heard. we'll be right back live from sanford. ♪ [ male announcer ] you wait all year for summer. ♪ this summer was definitely worth the wait. ♪
kaopectate. one and done. live in sanford, florida, at the criminal justice center where george zimmerman is facing second degree murder charges and the prosecution's case in chief is coming to a close. straight out to george howell reporting gavel to gavel on the case. what a morning, george. >> what a morning, indeed. what we are talking about now, we saw tracy martin several times holding back tears. sybrina fulton, trayvon martin's mother, left the courtroom with attorney darryl parks, an attorney for the family. after dr. bao really started to get into graphic testimony about the bullet wound, about exactly how trayvon martin died. we know first of all he says the bullet went into the right side of his chest. there was an entry wound but no exit wound.
dr. bao said he can give zero opinion on the position of trayvon martin during that struggle when the shot was fired, but he also indicated that martin was likely still alive for one to ten minutes after the bullet was shot. fired into his chest. that was really difficult, you could tell, for the family. >> very difficult, very powerful, very critical as well. george howell, stand by if you will. live with me in sanford, florida, has been watching from the beginning of the case as well, last year in february when it happened. the significance of dr. bao cannot be lost. what he said today was so critical for the jury. >> to me the big issue is he doesn't believe trayvon martin could move after he was shot. we still have the unanswered question as to george zimmerman's testimony that he laid his hands out but we know when the first responders came
that trayvon martin's hands were under his body. we don't have an answer as to how that significant discrepancy could have, in fact, occurred. >> yet he felt pain so that could be speaking to the defense where the defense's contention is he said, you got me, or something to that effect. the speaking has been contentious. >> to be graphic he had not yet bled out. he still had life in him. whether it was enough to talk, whether it was enough to move his hands is a question. >> paul cowan, that is a solid argument that the prosecutor can put forward. if you're mark o'mara, how are you going to cross this witness to make this your story? >> well, i will be interested to see how this develops. having tried cases i always find the medical examiner sometimes really pushes too much and reach conclusions that aren't b
medically supportable. they really get hurt on cross-examination. to say that trayvon martin was in pain for this extensive period of time but at the same time could not move, that's going to be a big area the defense will be coming at this doctor to say, hey, are you speculating or where is the scientific basis of that? that's what we are going to see, i think, coming up. >> we have other big breaking news coming from overseas. undoubtedly you have been watching what's happening in egypt. a former president under arrest. no one knows where he is. not only that, but his supporters starting to feel a little bit of payback on the streets. it comes in the way of blood and death. we'll update you as to who these supporters are and what's happening between the competing supporters on the streets and where this country is going in a moment live. humans. even when we cross our "ts" and dot our "i's",
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i want to take you to egypt. supporterses of the man who was just ousted. let's call it what it is -- a coup. there has been a lot of bloodshed. people injured, killed. some of the supporterses attacking army. army attacking back. what's the circumstance? is it ramping up? is it under control? where is this going? it's calm where i am. this has been a peaceful demonstration. there have been clashes in other parts of cairo in this part of cairo but not quite here. we are told one man has been killed. a pro morsy person. we are told according to one eyewitness that four supporters of morsy were killed there. here, very peaceful. a crowd very passionate in their
support for morsy. i am joined by a doctor who has come here. and like a lot of people here, he's not actually a member of the muslim brotherhood. they simply feel he is the legitimate president. morsy is the legitimate president of egypt. they believe it is a coup. there's been a lot of talk. is it a coup, a revolution? >> we are hear to tell the free world, mr. president obama, america, asia, africa, to all the world, we have a military coup. we are egyptians. we are free. we are human. we are not animals. we will not accept the military coup. we will not accept what he do. he is now killing us. he is killing egyptians. we are refusing that. i am a doctor. workers, farmers, all the
egyptians, a new revolution, will not accept this military coup. >> thank you. we are joined by a tour operator. >> yes. i'm an english tour guide. i want to tell a message for all the world that generals of the egyptian army, different from the army. the army is my brother. my family. but the army is the leader of the army. okay. you are always speaking about democracy. but you are dictators speaking about democracy. you want to -- >> our time is up. thank you. clearly despite the things we have seen in tahrir there is passion here, conviction here that there has been a coup-d-tat and people aren't shy to express it. ashley? >> i'm shaking my head seeing members of the muslim brotherhood appealing to america for support. it's not often that's what you hear from the muslim brotherhood
about america. keep an eye on it with that group and let us know if anything changes. ben wiedeman live at chi owe university with the supporters of the ousted president. we don't know where he's been arrested and where he's being detained. i'm watching a live monitor. you are not missing any live testimony in florida. the jury is about to come back. we'll squeeze in a quick break. when we come back, live in the courtroom after this. take 13. geico's defensive driver, good student and multi-policy discounts could save you hundreds of dollus. engineer: uh geico's discounts could save you hundreds of "doll-ars." it sounds like you're saying "dollus." dollus. engineeif you could accentuate the "r" sound of "dollars." are...are... are... engineer: are... arrrrrr. arrrrr. someone bring me an eye patch, i feel like a bloomin' pirate. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. honestly, i feel like i nailed that.
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live back in sanford, florida. right back as testimony resumes, dr. bao has retaken the stand. he is now under cross-examination by attorney john west. two things to note. don west does the technical questions. you don't see the pictures. the court isn't offering this. you won't see the autopsy pictures and even if they did, we would not broadcast them. sybrina fulton, the mother of
trayvon martin, has left the courtroom. she didn't want to see it. however tracy martin, trayvon martin's father, is in the courtroom. let's listen. >> and the bag is opened. you see the individual there in the manner in which they were transported from the other location. >> yes. >> in this instance there were no plastic bags around mr. martin's hands. is that correct? >> yes. correct. >> you're familiar with the term. >> yes. >> it's a crime scene investigation-type technique where if there may be blood evidence or other kinds of evidence on the hands. >> yes. >> they can be put in a plastic bag and sealed. >> there is no plastic bag on the hand. there is just the body bag. >> yes. so what you are saying is trayvon martin's hands didn't have plastic bags that sometimes
accompany a body from the scene of the incident to the medical examiner. >> you cannot use plastic bags on the hands. it is the standard -- it is the right practice that every time you should have used paper bag instead of plastic bag on the hand. on the body is a different story. >> let's talk about the hands just for a moment. >> okay. >> because i'm assuming that we saw a sequence here with the evidence photos of the way that mr. martin's body was presented to you and to your staff. >> yes. >> there were no paper bags on the hands. >> yes. >> which meant they were not put on the hands at the scene of the incident. >> yes. they did not do that. >> you are familiar with that procedure procedure.
>> yes. >> the purpose is to preserve the integrity of any evidence that might be located on the hands. >> yes. >> you would have shown a photograph of that, i take it. >> yes. if the hand was bagged we would take the photo before the bags were removed. >> in this instance, am i correct that mr. martin's body remained at the scene prior to it being transported by the delivery service for three hours. >> i don't have that information. >> i'm sorry, don't you have the noteses from the investigator that went there. >> i did not go there. >> right. do you have the notes that she would have kept about her arrival time and the time -- >> yeah, i do. >> her name is tara clark, correct? tara malfers, same person. >> yes. >> what time did she get there?
>> in the narrative she wrote -- >> i don't want a narrative reading. just tell me what time she indicated she got there. >> this is not my writing. i just read it. it is not my evidence. it is not my opinion. it is other people's readings. i just tell you -- >> these are notes that ms. malfers would have made in connection with the work she did on behalf of your office. >> yes. it is not part of the autopsy report. >> correct. but you have access to the notes. >> right here. i will read them to you. i cannot remember the numbers. >> agreed. >> yes. >> the question precisely is what time did she get there. >> approximately 2144 hours
means 9:00 p.m., 44 minutes. >> mm-hmm. the incident occurred around quarter after 7:00. >> in the notes here, she said -- >> well, you can use that as a frame of reference. there is lots of evidence the event occurred around quarter after 7:00. >> the witness should be allowed to respond to the question. >> he may do so. >> okay. >> your honor -- >> if you want to you can read the note. >> the question is this -- >> it's not my note. could be wrong. i'm under oath. if i give you wrong information it's perjury. >> yes. >> do you understand? i'm under the oath. i cannot give you wrong information. it is not my note. >> let me ask this question to try to clear that up. assume for your answer.
>> yes. >> the event occurred around quarter after 7:00. >> that's what you say. i don't know. i don't know the information. the time at the scene. >> yes. please assume that the event occurred about a quarter after 7:00. >> okay. if you are right. >> if there is any dispute in that, the jury can resolve that at some point. >> okay. >> just as a rough time frame, quarter after 7:00 is when the oh event occurred -- correct? for our purposes. >> i don't -- >> i'm not asking you to agree. just to assume that's when the event occurred. >> okay. you can assume that, yes. >> ms. mcalistallfors arrived a scene about two and a half hours later, correct? >> i don't know. again, i don't have that information. you cannot ask me yes or no question. >> based upon her notes that are part of your record.
>> okay. >> she said she arrived at the scene at 2144. >> yes. right here. >> that's about quarter of 10:00. >> okay. >> that's about two and a half hours after the event which we have assumed for our purposes occurred at 7:15. >> okay. it's not a yes or no. i just said okay. >> in her notes she left at about ten minutes after 10:00. >> i don't see that on my note. >> do you have the note she made in connection with the case -- if i could approach the witness, please. >> you may. >> dr. bao, i will direct your attention to this. >> this is what i have. you may have a different thing. >> that's the same. >> okay. >> right here. >> okay. >> cleared the scene at approximately 2210.
>> yes. >> that's tsm, and that is ms. malfors. >> yes. >> she left around ten after 10:00. >> yes. >> if we are assuming for the moment the event occurred around quarter after 7:00 it was just about three hours that mr. martin's body was at the scene. >> yes. okay. >> at least to some degree, unprotected from the elements. >> objection. >> i don't know. >> there is no factual basis for that. >> please rephrase your question. >> you cannot ask me questions i don't know. if it is yes, it's wrong. if it's no, it's wrong. >> well, you know the hands weren't bagged, correct? >> i did not see that. >> uh-huh. you know the body was at the scene for about three hours. >> i don't know -- >> based upon -- >> all i know, his body was at the scene for some period of
time. i do not have timeline. >> wouldn't you have reviewed the notes of the investigator as part of your overall understanding of the event in anticipation and participation for the autopsy? >> no. actually, it's not. >> you don't have any idea what is supposed to have happened when you do the autopsy? >> all i know was in the morning i did autopsy. he was shot. he's dead. >> so you had no idea what anyone had said about what had happened the night before. >> i told mr. o'mara i didn't have any. >> let me be presize. you did the autopsy without any knowledge having reviewed any information about what was supposed to have happened the night before.
>> i was told -- again, i don't have any recall. i don't have any memory of the day of autopsy. i cannot answer your any question about that. all i hear is the notes i have. >> let me be sure i understand. >> without notes i cannot tell you any fact. i cannot tell you any opinion without notes. >> what you are saying to me today to the jury is that you have no memory. >> yes. >> of any of the events surrounding the autopsy itself. >> yes. >> i try very hard. >> true? >> 100% true. i tried. >> no. if you might let me ask -- >> just one second, please. >> objection. he's not allowed to answer the question. >> we have to -- i have said this before. we have to allow the court reporter to take one person speaking down at a time. so if you will please, after your question, allow dr. bao to answer. dr. bao, after you have uh answered, wait for the next
question. >> okay. >> thank you. >> let me tell you why -- >> again, stop. >> may i ask a question, your honor? >> i didn't answer your first question. >> dr. bao, please wait. there is another question. if he has not finished answering the first question, he will be allowed to do so. please wait for your question until he finishes his answer. >> okay. >> could we read the question back? i think it was a yes or no question. >> i need to explain to the jury why this happened. >> your honor, may the witness -- >> why i cannot remember anything on the day of autopsy and other people can remember. so i did intensive study and i tried many times myself. a few days before your deposition which is nine months after my autopsy, i came to my office -- >> your honor. i'm sorry. this is not responsive to the question. >> i explained why i did not
remember. i put everything in front of me. the autopsy report -- >> your honor. would the court please ask the witness -- >> i try very hard. i cannot remember. >> once more. we cannot interrupt each other. dr. bao, are you finished with your answer? >> i need to explain to the jury. >> you have. are you ready for the next question? okay? please allow -- >> okay. >> mister -- >> i do not remember anything. zero. >> okay. >> on the day of autopsy. i depend on my notes. >> we understand, sir. please stop speaking so mr. west can ask the next question. >> go ahead. >> understanding you have no memory of the events surrounding the autopsy your testimony relies then upon your autopsy report. >> yes, the notes and photos. >> are the notes different than the report itself? >> no different. >> so the autopsy report are the
notes that you're talking about? >> yes. >> so as we were starting a moment ago, let's talk about the procedure. >> yes. >> at what point do you become -- this is generally now. >> yeah. >> i know you don't remember this one. >> yes. >> generally at what point do you see the body? >> generally speaking, it is not a fact that every morning we have conference at 5:30 a.m. then we start to do autopsy. if it's homicide, as in this case, we check identification. we open the bag. we take photos. >> may i interrupt a moment to ask you a more precise question? >> i apologize. >> now we have three people --
and now i'm speaking so it's four people speaking at a time. please state your oklahoma. >> -- objection. >> he's not being allowed to answer the question. >> it's okay. >> my objection is he's not being responsive to the question and i would like to ask a specific question. >> wait for your next question. >> okay. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> as part of the autopsy protocol, generally speaking at what point do you see the body? is it as soon as the bag is opened, after the body has been undressed and the clothing collected, after the initial photographs are taken, after the finger nails are scraped? at what point do you see the body? >> as soon as bag is opened. sometimes i open. sometimes technician opens. sometimes we open it together. as soon as we open the bag we see the body. >> in your autopsy report, you say the body is viewed unclothed. >> yes.
that's the autopsy report. >> right. >> in the report you say, this is your report. >> yes. >> the body is viewed unclothed. >> after remove the clothes. then body is unclothed. >> my question is, so are you testifying that you saw mr. martin's body fully clothed or did you see the body after your technicians unclothed the body and prepared the body for autopsy? >> i was there the whole time. the body received in the plastic bag. we opened the bag. we removed the clothes. the autopsy report starts from without clothes. i do not describe the clothes. >> how do you know you did that in this case then? >> i don't know. i do that every case. >> that's your regular protocol. >> that's my opinion. not a fact. >> let's talk about what happens then. >> yes. >> the bag is opened. >> yes.
>> then i assume the body is removed from the bag. >> yes. or the bag is removed from the body. >> all right. >> and the body is then clothed. >> yes. >> and then photographed? >> yes. photographed before we remove them. >> do you take those photographs? >> normally i do not. >> do you know who took them in this kacase? >> either ben dalton or priscilla. >> those would be the photoses taken of mr. martin's clothed body, correct? >> yes. >> after those photographs are taken, what happens next? >> ben dalton would remove the clothes. >> where would you be during this? >> i look at them. i don't recall what i did at this time. generally speaking, i could look
at the hand, look at the face. >> but you don't know if you did in this case. >> no. i don't remember. >> it's possible then that mr. dorton would do his assignment, and that is he would remove the clothing. >> yeah. that's his job. he was trained to do that. i have full confidence he did it right. >> mm-hmm. so you don't know if you witnessed any of that. you just know -- >> i was there. i should be there. >> mm-hmm. >> i believe without fact. it is my opinion i should be there. >> i agree. you should have been there. >> yes. >> so you're not sure if you were. you believe you were. >> yes. >> then did you -- do you know what happens to the clothing at the point that it is removed from the body? >> say again. >> yes. what happens to the clothing when it is removed from the body? >> we will pack them and put it
in the paper bag and give it to the police department. >> is that what happened in this case? >> it should be. >> did it? >> it should be. i told you. i don't remember anything. i need to explain to you why i remember. other people remember. very exactly kpapd two years ago. my brain is not too bad. i didn't remember. >> your honor, may i ask the specific question and elicit a specific answer? >> you're asking me the question. i don't know. >> yes. what i want to know in this case, was the clothing removed and packaged in paper bags. >> i don't know. but it should be. >> it should have been. >> yes. >> and you knew that the sweatshirt was damp. >> i saw from the photo. all my memory is no memory. >> okay.
so in other words you know from your training and experience as a medical examiner that if clothing is wet. >> mm-hmm. >> it needs to be packaged in paper bags. >> yes. >> if it is -- if plastic bags are used -- >> before we package them we let them dry a little bit. >> did that happen in this case? >> again, i do not know. >> so the procedure would have been to dry the clothing and pack it in paper. >> yes. >> you don't know what happened here. >> i cannot tell you anything beyond my note. >> you know from the photograph of the sweatshirt. >> yes. >> the hooded sweatshirt that it looks wet. >> yes. >> so it would be inappropriate and a violation of protocol to take a wet sweatshirt and seal it in a plastic bag? >> there are no plastic bag other than plastic bag carrying the body.
>> so in other words that you would never in your lab take a wet piece of clothing that's potentially evidence and seal it in a plastic bag. >> if anybody does that he'll be gone next day. >> it's a no-brainer. >> yes. everybody do that. i have confidence they do that. >> all right. so the clothing is removed and packaged as appropriate. >> yes. >> that would include shoes. >> yes. >> you saw shoes in the photo. >> yes. >> do you know where the shoes are by any chance? >> now? >> mm-hmm. >> i have no idea where it is now.
when a body comes in, shoes is on feet. >> the photograph that you saw here today showed the shoes. >> yes. >> you believe those are the shoes that mr. martin was wearing when his body was presented to you. >> before i come here, i spend hundreds, hundreds of hours reviewing the photos, review my notes. all the things i tell you today is based on my notes. it's new memory. not the old memory on the day of autopsy. >> are you -- >> i don't believe anybody can remember anything two years ago. >> mm-hmm. >> i did research about that. memory could be false memory, old, confused memory, recent -- >> are you reading from something now? >> yeah, yeah. i typed that myself. >> may i see what you are referring to? may i approach the witness, please? >> you may. >> because i was puzzled by that. i could not remember and other
people can. >> may the witness not answer until i have had a chance to review it. >> yes. >> show me what you are looking at. >> for this testimony, i told you i spent hundreds of hours. i typed down potential answers to your potential questions. these are my notes. >> may i see them? >> i would rather you do not see. these are my notes. nobody saw that before. >> dr. bao, if you are going to be reading from your notes, both attorneys are entitled to see what you are reading from. you may approach the witness. >> this one. >> all of the notes you prepared in anticipation after your testimony today. >> okay. so you will return to me as soon as possible. >> yes.
>> perhaps, it could be convenient if we made a copy for counsel. i could continue questioning. >> you have people behind you. you can make a copy if you wish. >> can i get a copy. it's my notes. i typed myself. nobody read them before. >> okay. these not the actual report that you rendered? >> no. it's my personal note. i use my own time in the evening, weekend. >> counsel would like to take them and sit down and look over them you may do so and return them to dr. bao. >> thank you.
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looks at them, everybody. this is massive strategy. there was a giant grim on the face of the defense attorney. what could possibly be in those notes that could serve to either impeach this witness or damage his testimony. >> you can tell by looking at it he's very nervous. that's the examiner. >> he didn't want anyone taking them. he protested three times. >> here's the issue. you can bring them in but once you're on the stand and refer to your notes it's only appropriate the attorneys are able to look at that. that's what they did. a critical mistake. if the state did not know this ahead of time. what could she in there. he could have discussions with the prosecutor, some things that are inconsistent with his incourt testimony. who knows. i think we're going back. >> don west is back up and
requestioning. >> it's my note. >> i'm going to ask the court for a copy of these. i'm going to want to have an opportunity to review them more carefully and have an opportunity to question dr. bao specifically about them. i need a little time to do that. i can proffer why, but i need that time. i think the rules provide anything that a witness uses -- >> this is a speaking argument. we can do that outside the presence of the jury. ladies and gentlemen, we'll break for lunch at this time. please put your note pads face down. we'll be back at 1:00 p.m. during the lunch hour do not discuss this case amongst yourself or with anybody else. do not read or listen to any radio, television or newspaper reports about this case. do not use any type of an electronic device to get on the internet to do independent
research about the case, people, places, things or events. do not read or create any e-mails, text messages, twitters, tweets or blogs. do you all understand these rules and will abide by them? >> yes. >> judge debra nelson letting this jury go for lunch a little bit earlier than usual. nine members of this jury. there are six who will determine guilt or innocence. it cannot be underrated how important this moment is. that's a nervous witness. >> i understand your concern about the notes. what i'm going to do is ask that the clerk make a copy of the notes. the attorneys will be directed
that the notes are not to be shared with anybody else. after they are finished with their questioning your notes will be destroyed. their copy of your notes will be destroyed. if you give it to the clerk she'll make a copy and provide it to both sides with the confidentiality order that the court has entered previously many this case. as soon as you get your originals back you can go to lunch and be back at 1:00 p.m. you're not to discuss your testimony with anyone because you're still considered to be on the stand. thank you. court will be in recess. >> the great seal will come into view. the mikes will get killed. there's work ongoing in front of that seal now. mark nejame, i want to bring you back in for this moment. i don't understand how the copy of the personal notes that that
medical examiner made is not being entered into evidence. it will be destroyed after everyone gets to refer to it. what's going on? >> it's going to have to be entered into evidence at least under seal for appellate review in case of conviction. i agree with the defense's motion. i've used it myself in times. the biggest mistake law enforcement makes it they will bring their personal notes to the stand and they will reference them and it's fair game. >> these were things never in discovery. no one knows what was said. >> until they were in review. >> there could be personal notes in there about make discussions about prosecutors. i have to fit in a quick break. you'll find out a lot more about the significance of this. we're back after this live.
welcome back to the live coverage here in sanford, florida in the george zimmerman second-degree murder trial. we've been saying all along that the prosecution's case in chief is coming to a close more than likely today. prosecutors will rest and more than likely today defense attorneys will ask that judge to rule and just shut this whole thing down. that's because they often say there isn't enough evidence, judge. there isn't enough evidence that the prosecutors have put forth. let the jurors go home. let's close this down. this is such a political case the judge will not likely do a summary rule from the bench. that's just my guess. i want to bring many some