Skip to main content

tv   State of the Union  CNN  July 14, 2013 9:00am-10:01am PDT

9:00 am
george zimmerman is a free man today. the former neighborhood watch volunteer found the not guilty in the shooting death in the unarmed african-american teenager. the verdict comes in the wake of more than 16 hours of jury deliberation and impassioned debate about the state of race in this country. the rally some feared might turn violent in the after math of the decision have largely remained peaceful across the country. both sides of the case had called for calm. more demonstrations are expected today. the parents of trayvon martin were not in the courtroom when the verdict was announced. his father tweeted, even though i'm brokenhearted, my faith is unshattered. the family attorney benjamin crunch had this to say last night. >> the whole world was looking at this case for a reason, and what people wanted to see as we all said how far we have come in america in matters of equal justice. and certainly as we have said,
9:01 am
we'll be intellectually disho s dishonest if we didn't acknowledge the racial undertones. so we have to have very responsible conversations about how we get better as a country and move forward from the tragedy and learn from it. >> joining me as partner to mr. crunch, mr. parks, thank you for being here this morning. i want to talk to you first about the family. they were not in the courtroom as we just said. we have heard tweets from them. have you talked to them and if so can you give us a sense of where they are right now? not physically locateds but where they are emotionally. >> well, they're devastated. and when i gave the mother the message as soon as it happened, her response was, wow. this morning they have advanced a little bet more. and realize that the verdict is done and now they must move
9:02 am
forward. they are very committed to moving forward action going the trayvon martin.org, to advance nonviolence against youth. so they are very committed to trayvon's leg gas i. and trayvon's legacy means so much to this country, in that hopefully he has made america more aware that all people are important, but also too that we is to be more mindful as to how we treat one another, how we profile one another, how we evoke our judicial process when things occur. all of those things will be part of trayvon's legacy. >> i'm interested, first of all, in whether moving forward includes perhaps a civil suit. >> well, we don't talk about that much publicly on our side of things. when we make those type of
9:03 am
decisions, we don't sue insolvent people. we sue people -- it's an informed decision. so we don't -- that wouldn't be a very public situation when that decision is made, how we handle it, and we'll confer with our clients. we'll make that decision. right now, though, i think this verdict is so fresh, we don't have that second conversation not yet. i think right now it's really an important time for the country and the martin family to think about how we treat racial minorities, how our system delivers equal justice and what can we do to do better. there are a lot of different ways that can happen, whether it's lawmakers, lawyer, judges, whether it's law enforcement and how they go about their process. so we learn many different lessons. we saw things as simple as how people may have taken pictures of trayvon and miscued things. and there's a solution to that.
9:04 am
i think maybe in the future people will know that put a footnote on the picture that describes when it was taken and that clears all that up. because unless you ask someone who took the picture or ask the parents, you would never really know how to put it in proper context. >> mr. parks, i spent a long timing listening to people talk about the need for real conversation about race. eing listening to people talk about the need for real conversation about racng listen about the need for real conversation about racg listeni about the need for real conversation about rac listenin about the need for real conversation about race. we heard it after a number of trials, particularly after the o.j. simpson trial brought up race and racial justice. and i'm sure it takes place in smaller forums, as well. and yet whit seems that it's th same story, the justice system as seen by the african american community and others is unfair to african americans and nothing ever changes. what changes it?
9:05 am
>> education. if you use ben and i as an example, we don't come from rich backgrounds, but we're lawyers who went to law school and as though we would have a normal civil rights civil litigation type practice, it's very conscious based practice that spend as lot of time and effort in situations to make sure that the right thing happens in our community. so it tends to force the conversation back in the right direction. and so we have of -- there are many comments about our law firm and our lawyers who are very critical. and i don't think these people quite understood how serious we take our role from a social responsibility standpoint. it's really important to us. >> and let me ask you about the
9:06 am
word profile. when you say that trayvon martin was profiled, do you mean that you believe that mr. zimmerman profiled him simply because he was african-american? >> that plus the fact that he was wearing a hoodie, plus the fact that he was walking at night, these are all things that he described that happened in the past that led to a number of break-ins. that evidence was very substantial in this case. and so because it was at night, he saw him walking, what he believed to be suspicious, we have to remember trayvon we now know was on the telephone. george zimmerman is not the judge of people who choose to talk on their cell phone, walk slowly at night as they're walking home. that's perfectly okay. people do it all the time. >> to those critics have said it isn't so much that justice was not served, it's that justice
9:07 am
was served, there are just some folks that don't line the outcome. >> i think the system sometimes doesn't get it right. that's part of our process. it should motivate people to run for office, to be policymakers and change the laws that makes it more favorable to protect people especially innocent people who are unarmed and who are minding their business. so the law certainly needs some tweaking. >> mr. parks, thanks for your time this morning. up next, the criticism of zimmerman's prosecutors. were they sloppy or was there misconduct? the famed law professor alan der, witness will tell was he thinks. every day we're working to be an even better company -
9:08 am
and to keep our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger.
9:09 am
9:10 am
i think the prosecution of george zimmerman was disgrace l disgraceful.
9:11 am
i am gratified by the jury's verdict. as happy as i am for george zimmerman, i'm thrilled that this jury kept this tragedy from becoming a travesty. for that, we are eternally grateful. but it makes me sad, too, that it took this long under these circumstances to finally get justice. >> that's don west who is one of george zimmerman's lawyers. and he's not on the only ones with harsh words for the prosecutors. famed howard law professor alan dershowitz says there was misconduct. what did they do wrong? >> well, when they first sought to get a second degree murder prosecution against zimmerman, they willfully and deliberately withheld exculpatory evidence,
9:12 am
photographs that showed zimmerman was banged against the payment, that his nose had been bloodied. they tried to put one over on the judge. and then all through the course of the pretrial proceeding, they withheld additional exculpatory evidence. this is a case that should never have been brought in the first praise. certainly not second-degree murder. it hurn turns out there was a careful investigation, but there was public opposition. so there was political pressure on the governor and he appointed somebody whoed that the worst rep pew tags in florida for overcharging a and that's what she did. she charged second degree when there was reasonable doubt written all over it about who struck the first blow, about who yelled help me, help me, but who was on top and who was on
9:13 am
bottom. and so -- >> i have to tell you, alan, it was amazing to me to listen to any number of lawyers who said they just don't have the goods here, they just have not proven beyond a reasonable doubt. and then to hear others who said that in fact they thought he'd be found guilty. what makes for that gap? i'm sorry, okay, we're having some trouble here. as much as we love skype, sometimes it doesn't always work. so we'll take a quick break and when we return, what could be ahead for both sides involved in this case. our legal panel weighs in and hopefully we will come back with dershowitz. new purina one true instinct has 30. active dogs crave nutrient-dense food.
9:14 am
so we made purina one true instinct. learn more at purinaone.com ♪ and i'll never desert you ♪ ♪ i'll stand by you yeaaaah! yeah. so that's our loyalty program. you're automatically enrolled, and the longer you stay, the more rewards you get. great! oh! ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ won't let nobody hurt you ♪ isn't there a simpler way to explain the loyalty program? yes. standing by you from day one. now, that's progressive.
9:15 am
when she was only fifteen hours first open hold. surgery... handing her over for surgery is the hardest thing i've... ever had to do. before obamacare, insurance companies could put lifetime... caps on your health insurance. once you hit that cap... they don't pay anymore. zoe was half way to her cap before her first birthday. anncr: obamacare ended lifetime caps stacey: thanks to obamacare, we can now afford the care... that zoe needs. and for her, that's a lifesaver. the last thing i want is to feel like someone is giving me a sales pitch, especially when it comes to my investments. you want a broker you can trust. a lot of guys at the other firms seemed more focused on selling than their clients. that's why i stopped working at my old brokerage and became a financial consultant with charles schwab.
9:16 am
avo: what kind of financial consultant are you looking for? talk to us today. saving time by booking an appointment online,
9:17 am
even smarter. online scheduling. available now at meineke.com. social immediate use ya lit up as george zimmerman ear not guilty verdict was read last night. they rallied in support for his defense. joining us here, media correspondent for npr news, cory day, the root. and emery cost x of the guardia. thanks all. what happened on social media once the verdict came out? >> well, if my computer could
9:18 am
have exploded right there, it would have. i think social media is filled with people who see what they want to see. so you saw the people who supported zimmerman gloating, on which tactlessly. and you saw people who supported trayvon martin's faech and the need to find -- get a conviction, rather, they were heartbroken. absolutely devastated. the question that kind of rippled out among that group was, you know, when to we ever get justice. >> you were saying earlier that it felt as though twitter served as official repository. >> people are defeat treating
9:19 am
twitter as a public opinion poll and i think we need to be careful about that because you really do get the most inflamed responses. i'm on both sides were say things that were inflammatory, but what sort of is interesting is that is where we go for official responses. when you look at a report from a magazine and they say that so-and-so responds, it's so-and-so's twitter feed responded. i want to believe that that 140 characters is not enough to express how you feel about the case. it brings up a lot of history, a lot of feelings. the extent so to which we can trust twitter for this, i hope it directs us to longer pieces. >> and yet it's a place where people put a marker on. cory, from the earliest moments of this trial in thinking about this as a trial where you saw issues the overlays of race, questions about the race and responsibilities of gun owners,
9:20 am
and in your early reporting over a year ago, you said social media is driving not only media attention, but also the authorities to react to this. how did that play out? >> social media as we all know drove the bus. it made this national news. but it also got actually used by the defense team. what the defense team did here with social mediand at internet was rather unprecedented. they created a new model. and what they did was they opened their own facebook account, their own twitter page, and they put out a pr campaign to counter the negative effects against their client. but what they also did is actually start putting out discovery evidence that was negative toward trayvon. and over the course of 16 months, they were able to flood the zone with certain information that actually potentially influenced potential jurors. so it's like jury consultation for free. about but with one thing. if you think about major trials over the year, why isn't it just ever thus? if you think about the clinton
9:21 am
impeachment things, there were leaks from both sides. surely there are ways in which people were influencing public opinion. how is this different in your mind? >> you referred to that we have a sort of stove piped information. like people on one side are getting information that they want to see, people on the other side are getting information that they want to see. and really it doesn't mix very often. and when it does mix that's when it gets explosive. when someone retweets from the other side, the amount of hate that you get is really stunning. because sometimes i think it's easy to forget that there is another side. >> one of the things that strikes me about several story that get picked up by twitter is there was a study right after the election i think maybe pew did it about the difference this public opinion at large and twitter. and it was almost always opposite.
9:22 am
>> and again twitter is a great example of this. sure, it moeshl lthis case mobi people. i think the first time i heard about trayvon is a hash tag on twitter. and then i researched it further. but again, i'm not sure in this case could you say it's opposite from public opinion, it's just the kind of opinion that is only informed by itself, just keeps inflaming its own side. i'm not sure if we'll see any kind of coming together of this if it's even possible. >> you talk about that as sort of social media being a source of information, a source of passion. you see politics sometimes people say, well, if you look at gun control, the nation is more divided than the way in which votes go, but there is an intensity among certain folks who believe in that strongly similarly on twitter, an intensity of intention on certain things. and yet there are ways in which the media trails social media and looks to it for cues. i think the coverage you're
9:23 am
seeing on this channel and other cable channels in particular follows the intensity of interest that you've seen elsewhere. is it appropriate for newsed a jen takes to be driven in that way? >> i think sometimes it is because news organizations are limited sometimes with how many hands they can put on deck. but there have to be a set of controls, there has to be fact checks, there has to be discipline to it. but i think it's important that you take the sooi goois coming out of twitter and you bring to broadcast. and i saw cnn, hln, and msnbc doing that repeatedly. they would pluck an issue out and they would have their legal affairs analysts respond. >> it can be really -- i love watching twitter more than i like contributing, but it seems to me that it also sharpens up the edges of a debate, that it is not where you go for, well,
9:24 am
hang on a second, can we all step back. it's very different from the tones that we've heard from both the defense and the prosecution. and i think it sometimes adds to the harshness of what's out there. >> and i think by its nature it makes things shortened and sharpened. again, 140 characters is not nearly enough to talk about the case and there was another study done recently about the number of people who click through on articles that have been forwarded on twitter. and the rate is like in the single digits as far as people who actually complete an article, read completely an article to let it wash over them. >> they're there to contribute, have their voice heard or feel like they're having their voice heard. it's interesting again to watch. but i think sometimes we take it too seriously if that makes sense. we think it means more than it may. i mean, there are some things on there i think, holy cow, because
9:25 am
somebody's done a i think will and you go to it and it's amazing. >> and one key thought. the importance of video and images is so paramount. if you think about the trial of braddedly manning for handing over millions of secrets. that's going on right now. you're not getting the same cameras in the newsroom -- or courtroom. similarly whitey bulger, dramatic events but we can't see it. >> and that's why a picture is worth 1,000 words. thank you all. coming up, the verdict is in, but the legal wrangling may not be over. our legal analysts will look ahead and alan dershowitz will rejoin us. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years -
9:26 am
making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger.
9:27 am
9:28 am
9:29 am
now that the verdict is in, what's next for both sides in this case? alan dershowitz is back with us and sunny hostin and mark nejame are in sanford, florida. when last we spoke, we were talking about the prosecution. you feel that certain things like not handing over evidence to the defense makes them guilty of misconduct. but let me ask you about going forward. do you think given what was said at the trial that there is enough evidence there for the
9:30 am
justice department to move forward on a civil rights complaint? >> i do not. i think this is a fairly traditional case of self-defe e self-defense. it's a horrible tragedy and reflects the racial divide. there is no reason in young man should have been killed. mr. zimmerman may have been morally at fault or racially profiling and following him, but under the law of self defense, if he was on bottom and he was having his head bank i go oiged against the pavement, he had the right to respond the way did he. if there is an investigation, it should be just for the racial profiling and the following. it shouldn't be for the events that led to the debt becauath b every case will be turned into a federal case and that's not what the civil rights law was intended to do. >> we'll also welcome paul callan.
9:31 am
let's move first to sunny and mark in sanford. do you agree with that analysis? >> absolutely. i think the fbi and department of justice has been conducted a parallel investigation and i do think there could be evidence that supports ray sh s racial p. in our society, when is it okay for someone to make these false assumptions based simply on the way someone appears, the way someone looks and eventually kill that person. i mean, i think at best -- at worst rather we open up this kyle l dialogue, but at best, this is something we need to investig e investigate. >> very simply, such a thorough
9:32 am
investigation has thousand beno on this case. with our discovery laws and you can take depositions of basically every witness pretrial, the feds have already been in, the state two agencies have investigated this, full deposition in the amount of hundreds have been concluded. there simple is nothing to allow the government to move forward on. racial profiling should be knocked out and nobodied down every time it rears its significantly head, but this case has been exhausted and we need to move forward from whatever lessons we might have learned. but to suggest that the feds will now come in and take a civil rights violation when all the witnesses have come forward and the state has basically indicated this was not a racially profiling case, at the end of the day, where do they go with that. >> can i as add something? there is a misconception. most of the time vast majority of the time they involve police officers discriminating again american citizens and depriving
9:33 am
them of their constitutional rights. in other words, it's a deprivation of liberty or life. you rarely see them invoked when two citizens are involved if it occurred. and i'm not saying it did here. however, it would be rare to seat feds jump in. the investigation they were doing originally didn't have to do so much with mr. zemer man individually, they were looking at the sanford police department and governmental officials whether they committed discrimination in the way they were handling the case. so i would be very surprised to see justice jump into this. >> so alan, is there any other legal avenues, let's set aside civil rights and the justice department, is there any other legal avenue that the family or others can take or is the case of trayvon martin over? >> well, it's probably over, but the family could seriously
9:34 am
consider a civil lawsuit standard of proof is considerably lower. self-defense plays a lesser role. remember in a criminal case, the government has to prove a negative beyond a reasonable to doubt. it has to prove zimmerman did not act in self-defense. this an ordinary civil case, all they have to do is prove their case by a preponderance of the evidence. whether or not they could prevail in a civil case is highly questionable. the jury in this case didn't render of verdict of innocent, they rendered a verdict of not guilty. and it could have just been based on the presence of reasonable doubt. so we don't know for sure. but i think the public involvement in the case trarng ily is over because we still have problems of racial division in this cup and a case like this provides a good opportunity for debate.
9:35 am
it's just that the criminal courtroom is not the right place to have that debate and the jury was the only institution i think in this case to have said essentially we're not interested in what's going on outside on the streets. we're interested in applying facts and the law and coming to a verdict. and that's what they did here. >> unfortunately, i have to run. thank you all for your expertise. alan, sunny, mark and paul. still ahead, racial tensions on did the li line and on the streets. newt griff gingrich and van jones are standing by. to treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied
9:36 am
as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about the only underarm low t treatment, axiron.
9:37 am
where over seventy-five percent of store management started as i'm the next american success story. working for a company hourly associates. there's opportunity here. i can use walmart's education benefits to get a degree, maybe work in it, or be an engineer, helping walmart conserve energy. even today, when our store does well, i earn quarterly bonuses. when people look at me, i hope they see someone working their way up. vo: opportunity, that's the real walmart.
9:38 am
9:39 am
sfwlootrd of the naacp told me earlier he is proud there hasn't been any serious violence in the after math of george zimmerman's not guilty verdict. benjamin jealous knows full well the tension, the anger, the disappoint are there. he's with from us orlando. thanks for joining us again, ben. first to that disappointment. what is to be done with that? because there are obviously young kids that are upset with this both black and white who feel that they know that zimmerman was guilty and that he got off. what is your message to them? >> the first thing to do is to listen to them, to let them talk
9:40 am
before our young people are raising good questions. how could this happen, how could zirm walk and michael vick got 2 1/2 years for killing a dg and the woman up the road from jacksonville who was a domestic violence victim got 20 years for shooting over the head of the man who feared she might be about to kill her. it's important to listen to them. but then to help guide them. and i'm so proud of the young people who are taking part in these nonviolence protests. because what they're choosing to do, not just to be peaceful, but to raise their voices forcefully, to call on our nation that not only can we do better, but must do better. because quite frankly, this experience of being suspected because of your color or because you're wearing a hoodie is something that is almost universal to this generation. they have gone through it, they seem their friends go through it and they know it's wrong and it has to stop. >> is there a difference in your mind between criminal row filing
9:41 am
and racial profile something because there are those who say clearly he looked and saw a criminal. because of his dress and walking around and not seem to go have a place to go. so there is criminal profiling and then there is racial profiling. which of those was this? >> well, this was racial profiling. criminal profiling is a law enforcement practice that is used in the absence of a suspect's specific sgripgs by trained law enforcement where you say probably -- like a snirp, probably anti-social, probably male, probably traveling by themselves or in a small group. probably white. that's the profile often used. the problem especially with krecell profiling, d.c. snipers were let
9:42 am
go ten times because they were looking for a white man. so when you put race to a criminal profile, it's a problem. racial profiling is when you don't have a suspect that you're looking for. no crime has been committed. and you are just focused on somebody because, yes, crime happens and you feel like criminals are more likely to look brown or black and so you zero in on them. and when you look at all the calls that george zimmerman made over althoul those years, it do seem like he was fixated on black and brown young people. and when you listen to people who lived in his same community, some say that they felt like they targeted them. and when you hear help say these punks always get away, it just makes you one didder. a wonder. so that's why it's important that can doj continues to
9:43 am
investigate. >> in terms of moving forward, do you think if the justice department -- i've talked to a lot of people today and most of them i have to tell you don't think that there a case there that the justice department can take up. we'll see. what do you to if doj says it's not there for us. >> first of all, doj has many options. criminal options, civil options, options to go after mr. zimmerman as an individual, options to dig into sanford p.d. as a department. all those are still on the table. secondly, doj would most likely wait until after any civil case is brought. and it would be virtually impossible for mr. zimmerman not to go on the stand. and what he will say when he's on the stand would be critical to their -- >> for the case. right. >> absolutely. and so respectfully there are a lot more steps here. and those who wouldpontificate a
9:44 am
bit reerepremature. >> i want to show you something tweeted out by van jones whole be one of the hosts of cross fire. it is a picture of martin luther king in a hoodie. a lot of folks took offense at that, a lot of folks cheered it. i was interested in your reaction to it particularly because we had spoken earlier about whether trayvon martin should be compared to megger everett. >> i think for young people, the reality is that they often feel judged because they wear their hoodies. they're seen as suspect. and this is across race. >> but it's the use of martin luther king's iconic image. >> right. and where i was headed is that,
9:45 am
yes, we remember martin luther kick sort of with a halo and a glow of light. but he lived a life as a black man and really as a young plan man, killed before he was 40, being treated as all young black men are. he grew up in the naacp, he grew up in the church, he went to morehouse college. and he was treated like any other black man in atlanta in those days. and they were often treated as if they were criminals because of their color and race. and what his son and i have in common is that we're both raising young black kids in this country now and as a black participants, the unfortunate fact is that the older your child gets, the more you are in fear that they won't just -- might not just get hurt by the bad guys, but they might get hurt by the good guys who mistamis t mistake them because of their
9:46 am
color. >> thank you so much, ben jealous, for your time. we'll talk to you down the road. up next, van jones and newt gingrich, cnn new cross fire hosts, have very different takes on the verdict and how race figured in. you really couldn't have come at a better time.
9:47 am
these chevys are moving fast. i'll take that malibu. yeah excuse me, the equinox in atlantis blue is mine! i was here first, it's mine. i called about that one, it's mine. mine! mine. it's mine. it's mine. mine. mine. mine. mine. it's mine! no it's not, it's mine! better get going, it's chevy model year-end event. [ male announcer ] the chevy model year-end event. the 13s are going fast, time to get yours. right now, get this great lease on a 2013 chevy cruse ls for around $149 a month. does your dog food have? 18 percent? 20? new purina one true instinct has 30. active dogs crave nutrient-dense food. so we made purina one true instinct. learn more at purinaone.com
9:48 am
9:49 am
>> he's not the racist you
9:50 am
thought he was. my fear, now that they connected that conversation to his conviction that his acquittal is going to be seen as a negative for civil rights, absolutely untrue. >> that was defense attorney mark o'mara with interview with >> he rejects the idea that the verdict was about race, but take a look at this tweet from van jones, former obama adviser. the verdict, racism won. van jones joins us along with newt gingrich. they are two of the new hosts of cnn's crossfire the show is making making a return to cnn this fall. congratulations. van, you were pretty short and sweet. wasn't even 140 characters. the verdict, racism won. let's give the speaker the first go at that. >> well, first of all, it's a
9:51 am
trn tragedy anytime someone is kaled. it's a tragedy 500 people were killed in chicago last year. so we can agree it's a tragedy. the question was was it murder. six people, all of them by the way women, sat on a jury, spent five long weeks listening to the case, came back rather quickly and said the prosecution totally failed. it failed to prove murder in the second glfle free, it failed to manslaught manslaughter. at shall time you have to have some level faith that a judge who was tough on the defense attorneys and the jury deserves some in respect our system a as opposed to some of the intense language that has been used in reaction to their finding in this case about this incident that in fact it was not murder. >> van, you have to jump in
9:52 am
there if you're going to to crossfire here. >> i wanted to make sure the speaker was finished. first of all, a couple things. at best you can say this was a case where you had bad and confusing law, the stand your ground law, applied to bad an confusing fact which is gave a bad and confusing drought come. i agree nobody feels i think super great about this when you have a dead child and no accountability. the problem is now that's been done. and i am left and a lot of people are left as an african-american parent, what are the consequences of this verdict now for us, the people who care about black kids? do i now have to dress my kid in a tuxedo so he can buy skittles? if my child is con frnlted by a stranger with a gun, not a police officer, because stranger with a gun, comply lie down spread eagle, do what you're told? we're left in a situation in which there are racial implications here and i think most people see the case as
9:53 am
racial profiling gone awry. and what are we supposed to do as african american parents and americans who care about black kids. i don't think white parents are expecting to tell their kids to wear a tuxedo. >> wait a second. the fact is black children have a lot more to fear from being killed by a young black often in a drug related environment. look at chicago last year. are you saying that those murders were racially inspired? there were 500 people killed in chicago last year. a vast majority of them tragically killed by somebody of their own race. so i think to jump from that -- nobody is suggesting -- go ahead about that. >> and when someone was identified as a shooter, they were put on trial. and in this case it took more than a couple of months of agitation to even get a trial. my concern in this case, mr. speaker, is that we are creating
9:54 am
a situation in which the conversation that is a real conversation, you mentioned those murders, those deaths, and you talk about drug related dwedwe deaths. it's the fact of the case that more african-americans are going to prison for drug related offenses and as many white kids are doing drug and selling drugs. there are issues underlying this and i think that's why this is such a hot case. >> i think there's a real important because the country is polarized on this. it does have racial dwi mentions particularly if you're african-americ african-americans. the question will be in the next few days will we be led by healers who say let's have a conversation together or by people who quid us. and i think there is a lot to talk about here as you know, we both agree on the issue of prison reform. so i think there are things to talk about. my fear is it will be used as an excuse by some people to further divide the nation and further
9:55 am
polarize it. >> let me just say something about this. i'm very concerned about the following scenario. i heard over and over again, you talk about division, i've heard over and over on television what are these black kids going to do now. are they got to riot, be violent, will they threaten mr. zimmerman or the jurors. does this case mean that there will be violence from black kids against society. that is unfair. that is polarizing. in fact, if anything we should be concerned that there a green light for society to be more violent toward black kids. i've heard trayvon martin's family say over and over again be peaceful, be peaceful. there has been no pressure from the zimmerman side of this to come forward and say don't comment frocome don't front teenagers with guns. i've nigger on twitter because i've said there is something wrong here. and i've heard the word black
9:56 am
thug used over and over again as now a common description. there is something wrong here, mr. speaker, where we have these kinds of double standards. there is no violence coming from black youth. the black youth have been peaceful. they have used art and twitter. and yet still they are suspect and there has been no pressure on the pro vigilante side to calm down their violent rhetoric. >> but let me point out two things. first of all, i've heard today some people say, one fairly famous person who said the hood is knot going going to get zimm. other people saying he won't last a year. there have been threats of violence on the other side. and it's a tragedy that in young black boy was killed? no, it's tragedy that any young boy is killed of any ethnic background. and i think that's part of what we have to get beyond. i agree with you that people -- first of all, people should be
9:57 am
very cautious in dealing with folks who have guns uer any circumstances. but in addition, i think people have got to take a deep breath here and look at a couple of aspects of this case. one of them is the whole question of the florida law which is a pretty strong pro self-defense law. but floridians do have a right to say they want to again themselves. and i think what's hard for people to realize is this jury sat there for five solid weeks. they heard systtestimony after testimony. a closing argumeument that was three hours and followed by another three hours and followed by another hour. in this case the jury concluded that it was a tragedy, but it was not murder. >> van, let me -- >> i agree with you -- sorry. go ahead. >> i was just going to say to pick up on that, that there is -- will and the speaker points out that there have been violent threats on the extremes
9:58 am
of both sides, but many more people in the center going let's talk about this. so there is that. but there is also the question of whether the idea that this is an injustice system for african-americans, a huge history of that. and we know that. but there is also the question is this an injustice or is this just the african-american community doesn't like the result? >> i think you ever to -- i think the speaker is right to raise the issue of the fan your grou stand your ground law. it's bad and confusing law applied to bad and con fews facts and outcome. the stand your ground law has been reviewed by a news painner florida. it says it's much more likely if it's used against a black department that the jury will say you probably had a right to be afraid. that needs to be fixed. i think there are some fixes we can agree on to that law. i think if you start the confrontation yourself, i don't know if you should be able to
9:59 am
appeal to stand your ground. i think the standard for reasonable fear needs to look at. but i do think it's important to give praise to the young african-american people who raised this as an issue, who used technology, art, social media and who have been peaceful. and yet i still later and it's a concern for me that overwhelmingly are you going to keep these young black kids peaceful. they have been peaceful. can we now talk about vigilantes who might feel emboldened to confront a child with a gun and shoot their way out of a confrontation. i have not heard the same level of concern about vigilante violence against young black kids. >> look, it could concern people, but look, zimmerman is not a test case for being a hero. zimmerman has had a terrible year 1/2 help he'll probably spend the rest of his life scarred by this experience. is this not a test case for
10:00 am
people to run out and become vigilantes. this says if you do in a athat, better be prepared to defense yourself because you're going to go through a very painful and by the way very risky process which could put you? n. skral. so i do think in that sense having had the trial is a very important signal that no vigilante activity will occur without the society ensuring due process. >> newt gingrich, i'm going to thank you very much. we have lost our satellite to detroit, but i thank van jones, as well. we look forward to the show this fall. thank you all for watching. i'm candy crowley in washington. up next, our coverage of the george zimmerman verdict continues with don lemon in sanford.