tv Crimes of the Century CNN July 14, 2013 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
28-year-old neighborhood watchman. then that confrontation culminating into a not guilty verdict for george zimmerman. my colleague anderson cooper picks. up coverage now with a special show. it's called "not guilty: the george zimmerman verdict." anderson, take it away. >> welcome to this special report, the george zimmerman trial, not guilty. not guilty, two words that ended a trial that riveted the country, a trial that brought to the surface difficult questions about justice and race, issues we'll talk about over the next two hours and for days to come, no doubt about it. for the family and friends of trayvon martin, there is no closure. there is no such thing, of course. not at the end of a trial where the 17-year-old young man, 17-year-old brother, 17-year-old son is dead. there is no closure, no matter the verdict. after the verdict, trayvon martin's father wrote that his heart was broken but his faith is not. what happens next for george zimmerman remains to be seen. all we know right now is the judge said he has no further business with the court. with that, zimmerman left the courtroom a free man.
martin savage has more on the verdict and what happens next. >> in the circuit court of the 18th judicial circuit in and for seminole county, florida, state of florida versus george zimmerman, verdict, we the jury find george zimmerman not guilty. so say we all, foreperson. >> after a 14-day trial and 16 hours and 20 minutes of deliberations, the wait of facing decades behind bars is lifted. >> your bond will be released. your gps monitor will be cut off when you exit the courtroom over here, and you have no further business with the court. >> thank you, your honor. >> a few minutes after the verdict, george zimmerman cracks his first smile. his parents, who both testified on his behalf, seemed to reserve their reaction while in court. his wife shelley fights back tears after hearing the verdict. minutes after it was read, george zimmerman walks out of the court a free man. trayvon martin's parents, who attended every day of the trial,
were not in court for the verdict. >> first and foremost, on behalf of tracy martin and sybrina fult fulton, who are just heartbroken really right now, we ask you keep them in your prayers. >> they spoke through their lawyers and on social media, tracy martin tweeting, god bless me and sybrina with tray and even in his death i know my baby proud of the fight we along with all of you put up with him for god bless. >> obviously, we are ecstatic with the results. george zimmerman was never guilty of anything except protecting himself in self-defense. i'm glad the jury saw it that way. >> many did not agree. >> justice for trayvon martin! >> small protests against the verdict popped up around the country. >> i'm here to stand against the racist system that has allowed trayvon martin to be killed
without the prosecution of george zimmerman. they didn't want to arrest him in the first place. >> while the protests were largely peaceful, some scary moments in oakland with protesters smashing the window else of a transit police vehicle. today, new questions over whether this really is the end for george zimmerman's criminal case. the naacp is now calling for new federal civil rights charges. >> when you look at his comments and when you look at comments made by young black men who lived in that neighborhood about how they felt, especially targeted by him, there is reason to be concerned that race was a factor in why he targeted young trayvon. >> in a statement today, the justice department said in part, experienced federal prosecutors will determine whether the evidence reveals a prosecutable violation of any of the limited federal criminal civil rights statutes in our jurisdiction. president obama has not touched on possible new charges but did
say in a statement today the death of trayvon martin was a tragedy, not just for his family or for any one community, but for america. i now ask every american to respect the call for calm reflection from two parents who lost their young son. >> mark savage joins me live from sanford. do we have any idea where george zimmerman is now, what he's doing? >> no, we don't, anderson. good evening to you, by the way. right now it's a mystery as to where he is. i think i could say with assurance he's knnot in the cit of sanford. i would be surprised if he's in the state of florida. his defense team wants it that way. >> joining is me live is cnn legal analyst and criminal defense attorney jeffrey tubin. sunny hostin will be joining us shortly. mark garagos also joins us.
let's just get first impressions. jeff, i mean -- >> i had a contradictory reaction. i thought the jury's verdict was understandable. i'm not sure i would have resolved it the same way, but i certainly wasn't surprised. but i just felt tremendous sadness too. i thought this is a verdict that will -- a lot of people will view with great cynicism and will not reflect well on the american legal system, on the american government. so i felt sad about that, but i also felt the jury -- it was a very understandable verdict. >> danny? >> well, i thought it was the correct verdict. in any verdict watch, whether it's a case of my own or a case like this that i'm observing, as the time approaches the verdict, everyone second guesses. i have to admit, i believed not guilty for months and months and months, since the inception of
this case. when the question came out about manslaughter, i have to say i started to doubt my own convictions. i think that happens to everybody. i think everybody would admit on some level, no matter how convinced they were in the moments, the hour before, they may have changed their mind once or twice. >> mark, i know you've been very against the prosecution for a long time. some say the district attorney overcharged in this case. what was your impression when you heard the verdict? >> look, anderson, i've been saying for weeks, this case was going to end in a not guilty. i also said that i thought that the prosecution was throwing the case, meaning i didn't think that they were legitimately trying this case. i will echo jeff. i have very mixed emotions about this. i assume there's other lawyers like myself who on friday i defend -- i had a 17-year-old african-american client. tomorrow i have a couple of
cases involving african-american clients. i think that the system is racist. i think the system does not get it right a lot of the times. i think this verdict was the just or right verdict, but for all the wrong reasons. that's going to take us a lot longer than we've got here to discuss it. i mean, there's so many problems with this. there's so many problems with this case. number one, george zimmerman, if he was anybody but a cop, would have been anywhere else in america, and anybody who's ever been in the criminal justice system or did civil rights work, he would have been arrested first and asked questions later. they never would have let him out unless he was a cop. i understand having done this for 30 years why people are insane about that. i would be insane about that if it was my client's family. having said that, once they put on this case and we saw how they were putting on this case, and i
told you every night as much sympathy as i have for trayvon martin's family, this prosecution was abysmal. it was abysmal for a lot of reasons. i don't understand how the jury could have come and specifically how that jury could have come to any other conclusion. and when people say this is not about race, remember what happened the very first day or second day of jury selection. the judge found that the prosecution was making pre-emptory challenges based on race. she put two white women back on the jury after they had exercised that challenge. so that tells me that there was a judicial finding that the prosecution was engaging in race, racial profiling themselves. so when they then try to run away from that in the trial,
which is what i think they did, there was no other result but a not guilty. now people are justifiably s cynical about the system, i think for all the wrong reasons. i think this case is so complex, so nuanced. it's soing ing aggravating to m watch commentators and people in the media talk about it in such a twitter, 140-character manner. this case is so layered and is so -- it reaches into such the collective psyche of this country and the problems with race relations in this country that i don't even know where to begin. it remind me when people and commentators were talking about, well, they had six mothers. they weren't just white women. they were mothers. well, that reminds me of what the d.a. thought when they were prosecuting o.j. simpson. somehow the women on that jury who were african-american were going to be able to see beyond this and go somewhere else. i mean, there is so much here to
kind of mine and drill down on. i hope we have the discussion as opposed to just doing what i think has been done, not on your show, but on other things when i was flipping the channel yesterday, i was aghast at some of the coverage i saw. >> sunny hostin is stuck in traffic, which is why she's not here. she has all along -- you know, she's been in the courtroom, former prosecutor. she's really been the voice on our panel who has believed they could convict on second-degree murder. i'm curious to see what her reaction was. mark, angela cory spoke after the verdict last night. i want to listen to what she had to say. >> we charge what we believe we can prove based on our florida standard jury instructions and based on the facts of the case. so that's why we charged second-degree murder. we truly believe that the mindset of george zimmerman and the words that he used and the reason that he was out doing what he was doing fit the bill for second-degree murder.
>> mark, you've been very critical of angela cory. what did you think of that statement? >> i was bothered by did. it came across to me as very insincere. i really believe this case has been about a lot of political motivations. you know, to go to your earlier question, i feel sad and empty, but i thought for well over a year as i've watched this and provided commentary throughout that this case was full of reasonable doubt. i understand proceeding maybe on a negligence claim where you're going to be seeking manslaughter and you were going to be showing gross negligence and you were going to show that he was in reckless disregard and he shot too early, all those types of things. but to take this to a second-degree murder, starting high and going low, it's a travesty to me. i think the state is primarily responsible. if there was going to be a conviction, then they should have proceeded on what they understood was a possibility. not a probability because it was a tough case under any
circumstance. but the possibility of a manslaughter. they went ahead and -- you know, two days before this trial ended, they switched their theory of prosecution. remember that dummy illustration, that hypothetical where the prosecutor got on top of the dummy and pretended he was trayvon martin? never did you see the reverse where it was, in fact, trayvon martin on the bottom and george zimmerman on top, which is what the opening argument claimed, what all the first witness were about, to show that. the state knew that. they had the forensics from the very beginning. so what they tried to do, in my opinion, was a fast one. they tried to sell the public, and they thought they were going to fool the jury that, in fact, they had second-degree murder. they never had that. i really think that the way they've handled this has caused a lot of these issues. they've caused a lot of the discussion that we've had that has been about race and in such negative terms because we see it as defense lawyers every day. we see young black men being abused by a system and not the proper remedies to deal with it.
>> sunny hostin is just joining us now. you were there throughout this trial every day. you were, as i said earlier, probably the lone voice on the panel who believed second-degree murder conviction was actually possible. what was your reaction when you heard the verdict? what do you think happened? >> i was absolutely stunned. i think you could see that when i was onset. i was absolutely stunned. as a lawyer, as a prosecutor, i accepted the verdict and i accept the verdict. i still believe in the system. i think justice failed trayvon martin. i really do. i think that there was enough evidence for a second-degree murder prosecution. >> you think the prosecution proved its case? >> i do. i do. i think there was enough for a second-degree murder conviction. i think there was certainly enough for a manslaughter conviction. i did not believe the claims of self-defense. i think that there was a miscarriage of justice yesterday. >> we've got to take a quick break. we got a lot more to talk about. we're going to be on for the next two hours until the 10:00 hour.
we're going to hear from zimmerman's defense attorney mark o'mara who says he's somewhat surprised by the outrage over the verdict. what he says about the fact his client followed trayvon martin in the first place after being told now to. also, i talked to darrell parks tonight. i'll ask him how the family is doing in light of the verdict and what happens now. do they pursue a civil case against the family? let's talk on twitter about the case, @andersoncooper. we'll be right back. offers an impressive epa estimated 34 mpg highway... and during chevy's model year-end event you're getting a great deal on our remaining 2013 models, but they're going fast. what are you doing? moving in. before someone else does. ohhh...great. [ male announcer ] the chevy model year-end event. the 13s are going fast, time to get yours. right now, get this great lease on a 2013 chevy malibu ls for around $169 a month. [ whirring ]
[ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪ your next trip is calling you. saying, "dan, schedule a 5 o'clock meeting at a hilton garden inn." or "dan"... hey, dad. ..."explore your family tree at a homewood suites." [ family ] hi, dan. or "put your feet in the sand at a waldorf astoria." never stop vacationing, dan. book during the great getaway for great rates at our ten top hotel brands. travel is calling you to hiltongreatgetaways.com. travel is calling you faso you want to save on autoof insurance?.
drive a hybrid. get good grades. lose the bling. go paperless. combine policies. make automatic payments. and of course, talk to farmers. hi ♪ we are farmers bum - pa - dum, bum - bum - bum - bum♪ welcome back to this special report. shortly after the verdict last night, george zimmerman's bank robbery robert told piers morgan their family isn't celebrating because they'll always be
concerned about safety. piers asked about whether or not george would still carry a gun. >> he was handed back his gun as part of the process of being released. will he keep it? >> i don't have confirmation from him. i don't see any reason why he shouldn't. >> you think he'd be -- >> i think he has more reason now than ever to think that people are trying to kill him because they express they're trying to kill him all the time, every day. on my twitter feed, on the internet. someone was just arrested today in florida for saying they were going to, you know, go on some shooting spree if george zimmerman got freed. >> zimmerman's attorney mark o'mara says zimmerman will have to be very careful about his safety because people said they won't listen to the not guilty verdict. earlier today, chris cuomo asked about the public's reaction to the verdict. >> let's begin with what is all around us, the reaction. a lot of it outrage to the not guilty verdict. are you surprised by that part of the reaction? >> i'm a bit surprised there's outrage because we had hoped
everybody would look at this case as being a very fair trial where both parties were represented well. i think most, if not all, of the evidence came out and the jury took their time deliberating and came up with a fair and just verdict. we've all agreed we should listen to a fair and just verdict. i hope that those people, even though they're frustrated, will accept the verdict. >> address the basic concern, which is your client, george zimmerman, wound up killing trayvon martin and yet there is no legal responsibility, and people can't understand it. what are they missing? >> well, what they're missing is that george had an absolute right to be where he was. he also had a right to see where trayvon martin was. people want to say that it was improper profiling. the reality is with the circumstances that night and circumstances unrelated to trayvon martin, i think george had a reason to be concerned. when they met, it was trayvon martin who was the aggressor, at least by the forensic evidence. trayvon martin did not receive any injuries but the gunshot
wound 45 seconds after george zimmerman was screaming for help. >> perhaps many people don't equate what happens to you when you get beat up with the proper justification for taking someone's life. >> and that's a frustration that people have. i share it with them. in this case, they had to look inside george zimmerman's head as he was on the ground with somebody unknown on top of him doing basically whatever they were doing to him and him not returning any blows. >> does george zimmerman regret having to take trayvon martin's life, having to kill him that night? >> absolutely. absolutely. he's human. he did not want to take any person's life. >> thank you for taking the time to do this interview. i'm sure you share the hopes of all that we find a way to move forward after this verdict and that any wounds can be healed in time. >> absolutely. we still have a lot of conversations -- i have, and we have a lot of conversations to have. i've been an advocate for the
fact that black youth in america are not treated well by the criminal justice system and we need to have that conversation. my fear is that we've polarized the conversation because we attach it to a self-defense verdict that they have nothing to do with. >> while sitting in the courtroom listening to all the testimony, it was difficult for trayvon martin's family to endure. martin's parents wiere there fo most of the trial. they each testified. they were not in the courtroom for the verdict. martin family attorney darrell park was there. he joins me now. first of all, i want to ask you about the martin family. how are they holding up? >> anderson, you know, obviously they were devastated last evening. as the day has progressed, they've gathered themselves together and really had a chance to think about moving forward and trayvon's legacy and trying to turn a situation into a positive. so we are encouraged by them and their fortitude to make sure
that they, one, tell people to remain calm, but also now to build on trayvon's name and what his name will mean in american history. >> i know you were in the courtroom when the verdict was read. trayvon's parents weren't there. a lot of people were maybe surprised by that since they'd been in court every day. do you know why they decided they didn't want to be there at that moment? >> based on our advice, number one. we had already decided they probably shouldn't be in the courtroom. anderson, this is a very tough issue for them. for them to have been through all of this for the last four weeks, we decided it was better to allow them to head home to miami since it was so late in the evening so they could attend church in miami. they were on their way home, and we informed them of the verdict. they were devastated. sometimes these types of situations have a lot of emotion tied to it. so we believed as their counsel it was best they not be in
there. >> the case has sparked national dialogue about race, since the beginning. zimmerman's attorney said something last night after the verdict was read. i want to play that for the viewers and have you react to it. >> i think that things would have been different if george zimmerman was black for this reason. he never would have been charged for the crime. >> what did you think when you heard that? >> well, i don't accept that. maybe me and mr. o'mara are philosophically different on that issue. i think he has to understand that in america, we see young black men go to jail for far less or far more time for similar type situations. so it's really an intellectual insult for him to say that to people when we all know if things were reversed and 28-year-old trayvon had killed 17-year-old white george zimmerman, he would have been locked up that day, no bond, and good luck. >> so you think the exact opposite is true from what
o'mara said? >> of course. i mean -- and no one can deny -- anyone who denies that is being intellectually dishonest. >> the naacp is calling for the justice department to step in, bring civil rights charges against zimmerman. is that something that trayvon martin's family wants? >> as you know, we had -- we approached the federal government early on in this case about some of the issues in the case, and they decided to give deference, as they often do, to state law. obviously, that's an option they have. the federal government makes decisions based upon what they want to do. so obviously any way that we could get justice -- remember, up until to point, this family has gotten nothing. they've gotten a half-hearted apology, never a full apology. we just want justice for tray n trayvon. they've sat through that trial and seen the pictures of trayvon laying there. it's like a stab in the heart every time they say it, to see that picture.
yet, the person who did this will not pay a price. he's blamed everyone. he never takes responsibility for him getting out of that car and going out there looking for trayvon. >> do you know when the family, when you will decide whether or not to bring a civil wrongful death suit against george zimmerman? >> well, we obviously have that option. we're looking at it. we're studying it close. there are a whole bunch of factors that go into when, where, and how. we'll look at the possibility of that. >> do you know what factors, can you say what factors would go into it? >> number one, it's a far lesser standard. number two, when you think about possible defendants, you size them up and determine where they stand. unlike the lawyers who tried this case who do marital and criminal law, we are civil lawyers. i do this day in and day out. we'll size up and determine, is it worthwhile for us to do it, how we should do, and when we should do. >> darrell park, appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you, sir.
>> quick programming note. you can see more of chris cuomo's interview form morning on "new day." george zimmerman won this legal battle, but there's public outcry. in some places you're looking at pictures of rallies going on in san francisco and oakland. meanwhile, the naacp is calling for federal civil rights charges to be filed against zimmerman. we'll talk about that next. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] some things are designed to draw crowds. ♪ ♪ others are designed to leave them behind. ♪ the all-new 2014 lexus is. it's your move.
we've made major advancements in reducing the incidents of broken bones in seniors. we've received recognition for getting hypertension under control for over 80% of our members. we've made significant advances in asthma, immunization and maternity care. and j.d. power and associates ranked us highest in member satisfaction among health plans in california. we're focusing on the big things so you can enjoy the little things. kaiser permanente. thrive.
welcome back. throughout the country there have been some rallies against the verdict. you're looking at pictures of a rally going on in san francisco. all day there have been protests, mostly small and peaceful. from new york to los angeles and outside the white house. many calling this a civil rights issue. the naacp has asked the justice department to file civil rights charges against george zimmerman. the justice department said its federal civil rights investigation continues and will look at evidence from the trial.
on cnn's "state of the union," naacp president benjamin jealous says there's reason to be concerned that race was a factor in the targeting of trayvon martin. >> we're upset with the situation in this country where as black people, as black parents, as parents raising black boys, black girls in this society, it feels so off that our young people have to fear the good guys and the bad guys. the robbers and the cops and the self-appointed community watch volunteer who thinks they're keeping folks safer. we want to live in that country that our kids say our country is every day when they say the pledge and they say this is one nation under god with liberty and justice for all. we yearn to be in that place. >> joining me now live, cnn contributor charles blow. back with us, cnn legal analyst sunny hostin and criminal defense attorney mark garagos. charles, one of the things you
said was now what do i tell my boys? what did you mean by that? >> i mean, i'm a father. i have three kids. two of them are boys, teenage boys, a 19-year-old and 16-year-old. you know, this case you don't just look at the verdict. that's just like looking at the last few minutes of the game. you have to look at the entire sweep of this case and the entire criminal justice system and what it says to parents like me and boys like mine. it says that this is a fight on some level about the politics of brown bodies. in particular, about black, young masculinity. because you cannot separate what george zimmerman initially saw. he didn't even know trayvon's name. he had no idea about what he had done in school. he had -- none of that information. all he knew was what he told the dispatcher, what he was wearing, that he was young, late teen, he
said. when he was asked what race he was, we realize he could see that he was dark-skinned and that he was walking slowly. so you have to say to yourself, what about those few characteristics is the only thing you can see that makes this person suspicious? what is your organizing principle that makes him one of the punks? what is your organizing principle that makes him one of the people who always get away? what is your organizing principle that says i need to make sure that this guy does not get away because he is one of them? and what we find in the trial is that he was saying that he thought he was one of the criminals. although, what trayvon was doing was not criminal. >> you're saying you cannot take race out of one of those organizing principles. >> well, i think it is some combination of those. the only information he had was what he saw, right? so race is one of those things.
youth and masculinity and race are three of the five things he could discern. that is a problem, particularly when you have to have conversations with young black men. i used to tell my boys, doesn't run because they may think you're suspicious. now i have to say, don't walk slowly because that could mean your suspicious. what is the pace a black man can walk in america and be beyond suspicion? that's a crazy conversation to have. >> it's so fascinating that you say that because i have a young brown boy at home. he's been following this case so very closely. as a lawyer, as a former prosecutor, i've always told him, go to the police, call the police when you need help. you know, don't flee. run if you need to. don't fight. unless you absolutely have to defend yourself. what do i tell him now? as a lawyer, as a mother, what do i tell him now? it's fascinating. my husband and i were having this very same discussion.
>> even the people who say, well, why doesn't trayvon just run home, right? we expect -- we're kind of putting on to the kid what adults would do. >> mark garagos -- sorry, mark o'mara during the closing was silent for four minutes and said that's the amount of time he had to run home. >> right, right. we're basically saying, let's think like an adult would think. my youngest, 16-year-old, he has a 16-year-old twin sister. they're as big as me, but they don't think like adults. >> a teenager's brain is not fully developed. >> they make choices. you have to remember they are children. i can -- you know, we don't know what trayvon was doing, what's going through his mind. >> well, he did tell his friend on the phone, though, that he was going to walk fast. he was trying to get away. >> but this idea that, why did he not go all the way home? we want to rob him of any noble
purpose. so there is a possibility of nobility there, which is that trayvon knows there is a 12-year-old boy who will soon be his younger stepbrother at home alone. he has tried to dodge this guy, shake this guy off his trail. he cannot do it. what is going into the house, which is what zimmerman thinks he's going to do anyway -- he thinks he's going to break in. going into one of those houses confirms what zimmerman already assumes is he's going to do. and it means for trayvon i'm now taking the person who is following me and i cannot shake, i'm taking him to the 12-year-old who's alone at home. >> i do want to bring in mark garagos. what's interesting, you were saying you believe the system is racist, that the justice system does treat african-americans differently. you see that in your own practice. you see that every single day in the courts. yet -- >> right. this is what's so absolutely aggravating and why i get so
worked up when we're on these panels. i understand -- and sunny, this is not a shot at you as a former federal prosecutor. when you hear people who say they're federal prosecutors or ex-federal prosecutors, they're dealing with while-collar criminals in -- >> not in d.c., though. you know that, mark. >> not in d.c. i know that. i know that. i understand. i'm talking about in the state courts across this country. every single day if you -- as i sit in a courtroom and watch nothing but young black males get processed in and out of courtrooms in this country for the, what i consider to be, the parking ticket of superior court. it usually involves some small amount of drugs or something drug related. 80% of the cases that come through the criminal justice system. and the absolute constitutionalized racism when it comes to blacks is overwhelming. i do not think for a second, though, that we should be injecting or trying to correct
that in one case where here it's almost the exact flip side of what happened. what happened here was you had six white women or five white women on this jury. you talk about what charles was talking about, that organizing principle. i just call it -- and i called it a couple weeks ago, the prism through which they look. early on and one of the reasons i was all over sunny on this case was because i understand, i think, from sitting in the trenches that the prism through can they look is the same prism that george zimmerman looks when he sees trayvon martin walking there. then when you layer on all of the other nuances about this and you put on the woman who had the home invasion and you press all of those buttons, you play on and you absolutely build on this kind of archetype that is built into the system.
and it is awful and it happens every day in the system. i hate the fact that now we've kind of looked at it kind of backwar backwards, in my opinion. >> what i don't understand is -- so are you saying you do not believe race was a factor in this case, or -- i mean, because the prosecution went out of their way to not invoke race during the actual trial. >> let me show you again. when they started this jury selection, they started bouncing white women. why did they do that? because they were afraid, in my humble opinion, the prosecution was afraid that the white women were going to view trayvon martin through this prism of, as charles says, a young black male. if this had been a young black female, i don't think it would have been a problem. if had been a young white female, it would not have been a problem. it was a young black male. that's why they started bouncing white women, exercising their
peremptory challenges, to the point where the judge granted a batson challenge and receded two of those white women. that was when this case was over. there was race from the beginning in those prosecutors' minds. and instead of dealing with that, they ran away from it. and i'll go back to the other o conundrum about this case. if george zimmerman was anybody but a cop, he would have been arrested that night. that's something that every young black male in america knows, and that's something that everybody who's in the criminal justice system knows. you do not kill somebody and get a pass. the cops arrest first and ask questions later. >> when mark o'mara says that if george zimmerman was black, this would have never gone to try, you believe if george zimmerman had been black, he would have been arrested that night. >> if george zimmerman had been black, he not only would have been arrested that night, but you would have had those very same prosecutors playing into that same racism, and i will
guarantee you that there are plenty of florida prosecutors, because i read the case when they get reversed is, who will play into that and argue and demonize that same prism when they've got the jurors who have going to be receptive to it. that's the schizophrenia about this case. >> so charles, to you, what is this -- i mean, does this case change anything? what -- can anything come out of this? >> well, it is an amazing focal point, right. i think mark is right in the sense that what makes this such an outlier is that -- it's not just that it is an adult and a kie child. that's one of them, that the adult is armed and the child is unarmed. there's disproportionate use of force. trayvon martin is using his hands however he's using them. george uses a gun. what we have to understand about that is that trayvon could not have legally ever matched force with him. you cannot have a conceal carry weapon as a teenager in florida.
we're already out of sorts. the bigger point, i think, that upsets most people is there was a grown man standing over a dead boy when the cops arrived and that person was allowed to talk his way out of a precinct and go home to his own bed. we see people killed all the time. there's gun violence, unfortunately, in america all the time. people die. we don't expect for the police to know who did it and to let them walk away from it. that, i think, is such an aberrant thing for us. for any person in america of good conscious, for any parent, for any person who feels like they could be on the other end of that gun barrel, that it forces a different kind of conversation. i think that focuses this particular case in a different way than other cases have been focused. >> we have to take a break, charles. thank you for being here. sunny and mark are going to be here again. up next, we're going to examine what may have been the key pieces of evidence in the trial,
particularly the key piece, the 911 calls. prosecution says they proved their case, but certainly didn't sway the jury. we'll look at why not. be right back. more secure. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪ feel like you're growing older... waiting to look younger? don't wait. [ female announcer ] get younger looking skin fast. with new olay regenerist micro-sculpting cream. the next generation with 2 new anti-aging ingredients. it penetrates rapidly. visible wrinkle results start day 1. and you'll see younger looking skin
before you even finish one jar. ♪ new olay regenerist. the wait is over. new olay regenerist. could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. mmmhmmm...everybody knows that. well, did you know that old macdonald was a really bad speller? your word is...cow. cow. cow. c...o...w... ...e...i...e...i...o. [buzzer] dangnabbit. geico. fifteen minutes could save you...well, you know. really? 25 grams of protein. what do we have? all four of us, together? 24. he's low fat, too, and has 5 grams of sugars. i'll believe it when i--- [ both ] oooooh... what's shakin'? [ female announcer ] as you get older, protein is an important part of staying active and strong. ensure high protein... fifty percent of your daily value of protein.
...and we inspected his brakes for free. -free is good. -free is very good. [ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. >> one of the key pieces of evidence introduced in the george zimmerman were calls to police from it the night of the deadly encounter. first, part of the call that george zimmerman alerted police to a stranger in the housing
complex. >> are you toll lowing him? >> yeah. >> okay. we don't need you to do that. >> okay. >> then there's the 911 call made by a concerned neighborhood. it's where we hear in the background somebody yelling for help and the sound of gunshot. >> 911, do you need police, fire, or medical? >> maybe both. i'm not sure. there's someone screaming outside. >> okay. what's the address that they're near? >> [ bleep ]. >> and is it a male or female? >> it sounds like a male. >> and you don't know why? >> i don't know why. i think they're yelling help. but i don't know. just send someone quick, please. >> does he look hurt? >> i can't see him. i don't want to go out there. i don't know what's going on so -- >> tell them to come now. >> they're sending. >> so you think he's yelling help? >> is yes. >> all right. what is your --
[ gunshot ] >> there's gunshots. >> you heard gunshots? >> yeah. >> how many? >> just one. >> that was a difficult piece of evidence. trayvon martin's parents testified it was him. george zimmerman's parents and a number of friends told the court it was him. let's go back to our panel. so much was made of the 911s during the trial. you say the prosecution didn't do enough. what do you mean? >> i think the prosecution should have made this the center piece if that was their whole theory. i just think this idea of once they had, you know -- and i'll go back to -- and i don't want to sound like a broken record. once they had the jury they had, they needed to retool. they needed to figure out how they were going to appeal. as i often tell jurors when i select them, i don't care who you are as an advocate, you're not going to turn around somebody who's been living and has life experiences of 30, 40, or 50 years on this earth in ten
days if you're the greatest most persuasive person in the world, you're not going to turn them around. you need to plug into what it is and how it is these jurors are going to view the situation. the idea of having that jury with that demographic and hoping that you're going to appeal to them or that they're going to be able to relate to rachel jeantel as your center piece, i just think, was a horrible calculation. >> how would you retool? >> that is the funniest thing i may have ever heard. president evidence is what the evidence is. the prosecution puts on the evidence. they pick the order of the evidence. they pick who they're going to build their case around. the idea that -- >> they don't get to pick their witnesses, mark. >> i understand that, but they put on who they want to put on. sunny, understand something. when you try cases, you understand that you're the director of that play. you're the one -- >> you don't get to pick the actors. you don't get to pick the witnesses. the defendant gets to pick them.
>> yes, you do get to -- what are you talking about? >> the prosecution absolutely gets to pick their witnesses. they chose not to put certain people on the stand. >> exactly right. they didn't put tracy martin. >> mark, how dare you steal my thunder. i was going with tracy martin. they didn't call a number of people they had in their quiver that could have given them some evidence. when they didn't, look out. the defense did. they used them to their advantage. you ultimately have that quiver of witnesses to choose from, but the prosecution certainly selects. >> here's a strategic choice i think was very significant. i can't say it was wrong. obviously, it was not successful for the prosecution. they put on all of george zimmerman's interviews with the police, with fox news. they didn't have to do that. they basically put his defense on. now, their argument was all these interviews showed that he had made inconsistent comments,
he was a liar, thus he was guilty. if they hadn't called any of those witnesses, george zimmerman may have had to testify himself. i think that might have been -- >> jeff -- >> yes, mark? >> jeff, wouldn't you agree that if you're going to put on all of those taped statements by george zimmerman and you know in a deposition that your lead detective at the time found nothing materially inconsistent and you know you're going to get that baseball bat right between the eyes, why would you do that? as i explained at the time, sunny, and as jeff just said, you -- the defense could not have put on his statement absent him getting on the stand. why would you put that on? >> we got to take a break. >> you could choose that actor. >> all right. when we come back, we want to find out what everybody on our panel thought was a pivotal moment in this trial. we'll be right back. how'd you d9 out of 10.iz today? 9 out of ten? that's great. ♪
these chevys are moving fast. i'll take that malibu. yeah excuse me, the equinox in atlantis blue is mine! i was here first, it's mine. i called about that one, it's mine. mine! mine. it's mine. it's mine. mine. mine. mine. mine. it's mine! no it's not, it's mine! better get going, it's chevy model year-end event. [ male announcer ] the chevy model year-end event. the 13s are going fast, time to get yours. current chevy truck owners can trade up to this chevy silverado all-star edition with a total value of $9,000. what makes the sleep number store different? what makes the sleep you walk into a conventional mattress store, it's really not about you. they say, "well, if you wanted a firm bed you can lie on one of those. we provide the exact individualization that your body needs. oh, yeah! once you experience it, there's no going back. don't miss the final days of our summer closeout, for the biggest savings on all sleep number memory foam and iseries bed sets.
we're back with our panel. sunny hostin, deny savalos, mark garagos and mark toobin. how likely do you think it is the family will sue for civil damages? >> it's been reported they've already settled with the homeowners association. i don't know if that's true. next time you interview the lawyer, i would ask that and
find out. if they've settled with the homeowners association, meaning they got some kind of a check in trade for a release, the only target left, i would imagine, unless they think they've got something against the cops themselves, is zimmerman himself. zimmerman himself, i would imagine all the money he's raised has gone to pay o'mara and west. he probably doesn't have much of anything. so i understand they could get a large verdict if they get the right jury, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to kind of put them through that for a victory just to get a judgment. the bigger question is whether the feds are going to come in and whether the feds would come in and do what they did in the rodney king case out here in l.a. which was after the acquittals. they prosecuted the officers for a violation of the civil rights in rodney king case. then they were able -- >> do you think they'll do that? >> i think that's a possibility.
i would not discount it. >> it's a serious possibility. the civil rights division has been much energized under eric holder. they've been much more aggressive in recent years than they were in the bush administration. i think they're going to look at it. >> what specifically do they look at versus what the state looked at? >> well, the gist of it is it's very similar except that the motivation underlying it, the intent level is not -- is intent to violate his civil rights, intent to harm him because he was a black person. that's a different charge. >> or they could do a hate crime. >> an they've been looking at it. >> similar idea. >> they've been running this parallel investigation. they stated today very clearly they're still looking at it. i suspect it's a very real possibility. >> deny, do you think that's possible? >> what they have to prove is that not only was -- did george zimmerman attack him, but that it was based on his race.
i certainly think they're going to look into it. to me, the federal government only likes to make cases that stay made. i think that mr. garagos can speak to that too. i think they're certainly going to look at it very closely. there's precedent for it just like mark mentioned in l.a. i don't know they want to invest their resources in a case like this. even with the hype and interest they have in case like these. >> the problem for the feds in this is it's the same case. the only issue would be zimmerman's intent, just as the only issue in this case would be zimmerman's intent. how you define guilty intent would be slightly different in a federal criminal prosecution. >> is it an easier rule? >> it's not so much easier. >> well, there's a second problem with them bringing the case federally. here in l.a. when they did it, originally you had simi valley, which was a predominantly white community with kind of law enforcement types. it's where the lapd flees to go
live so they don't have to live in the inner city. when they bring it downtown to the federal court here and try them federally, you get a much different jury pool. the problem is, federally there in florida, your jury pool is going to be probably one in the same, which is not going to be helpful to get a guilty verdict. >> we got to take another break. everyone stick around. there's a lot more ahead in the next hour. we're going to the 10:00 hour tonight. we'll look at whether george zimmerman was overcharged. we'll also look at some of the key witnesses in the trial. we'll be right back. there's a new way to fight litter box odor. introducing tidy cats with glade tough odor solutions. two trusted names, one amazing product. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t
they're the days to take care of business..tter. when possibilities become reality. with centurylink as your trusted partner, our visionary cloud infrastructure and global broadband network free you to focus on what matters. with custom communications solutions and responsive, dedicated support, we constantly evolve to meet your needs. every day of the week. centurylink® your link to what's next. checking out of the hilton shouldn't be a pity party. your next trip is calling. saying, "deb, find a view for two at a conrad." or "make room for more at an embassy suites, deb." or "deb, lead a victory dance at a hampton."
so chin up, love, and never stop vacationing. book during the great getaway for great rates at our ten top hotel brands. travel is calling you to hiltongreatgetaways.com. you're watching "ac360." tonight zimmerman is a free man, as the judge put it. he has no further business with the court, but zimmerman's battle may not be over. the naacp is calling for federal civil rights charges to be filed. there's always the possibility of a civil case against him. across the nation demonstrators are saying there was to justice for trayvon martin. as president obama said in a statement today, we are a nation of laws and a jury has spoken