tv CNN Newsroom CNN July 16, 2013 6:00am-8:01am PDT
"newsroom" starts now. "newsroom" starts now. ♪ -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com a cnn exclusive, juror b37 speaks out. >> i think george zimmerman is a man whose heart was in the right place. i think both of them could have walked away. it just didn't happen. it's just hard. thinking that somebody lost their life and there's nothing else could be done about it. this is pro trayvon martin rallies in oakland turned violent. also, the prosecution star witness that wasn't. >> don west gave you a very hard time, the defense attorney. >> don west. >> what is your -- what is your view of him? >> lucky i'm a christian.
plus, captured military cargo at a north korean captain that attempts suicide. we'll take you to the korean peninsula. and -- >> not good to be driving in. i can't even turn around and face the storm right now. >> arizona is slammed while the northeast bakes. you're live in the "cnn newsroom." good morning. thank you so much for being with me. i'm carol costello. cloaked in darkness, her identity hidden in silhouette, a juror in the george zimmerman trial talks exclusively to cnn. she reveals the secretive and impassioned conversations that led to the not guilty verdict. nearly three days later, this was the scene earlier this morning in oakland, california. police officers fired tear gas on protesters, who turned rowdy
and violate. >> i feel great right now. best feeling in the world. >> also overnight in los angeles, more than a dozen people were arrested, some protesters vented their anger by breaking windows and throwing rocks. one news photographer was struck and hospitalized. hours earlier, these demonstrations remained peaceful. 2,000 people massed outside the cnn center in atlanta protesting the verdict and calling for federal charges against zimmerman. why did zimmerman walk free saturday night? one juror explains in this exclusive interview with cnn's anderson cooper. >> when you first gathered together, what was it like, did you know how big this -- >> it was unreal. it was unreal. it was like something -- why would they want to pick me, you know? why would i be picked over all these hundreds of people that they interviewed? >> and when the trial started, what was the first day like? the opening statements, don west
told a joke, what did you think of that? >> the joke was horrible. nobody got it. i didn't get it until later, then i thought about it. i guess that could have been funny. but not in the context he told it. >> going into the trial, did you have an idea in your mind about what happened? >> no, because i hadn't followed the trial at all. i had heard bits and pieces of what had happened and the names that were involved, but not any details. >> take me back, if you can, to that first day, the opening statements. what do you remember about them, what stood out to you? >> not a whole lot, because it seems like it's been years ago that it happened. it does. it seems like it's been a very long time that we were there. >> was there a particular witness that stands out to you? who did you find to be the most credible? >> the doctor, and i don't know
his name. >> the doctor that the defense called? >> yes, yes. >> what about him? >> i thought he was awe inspiring. the experiences he'd had over in the war, and i just never thought of anybody that could recognize somebody's voice yelling in, like, a terrible terror voice when he was just previously a half hour ago playing cards with him. >> this was the witness that the friend of george zimmerman's who had had military experience? >> this was the defense -- >> the defense medical examiner. okay. >> yeah. what was it like day by day being on that jury? >> day by day was interesting. there were more interesting things than others when they got into the evidence it was a lot more interesting than just testimony. some of the witnesses -- some of the witnesses were good, some of them not so good. >> did you feel a lot of
analysts watching the trial felt that the defense attorneys, mark o'mara, don west, were able to turn prosecution witnesses to their advantage. chris serino, for instance, the lead investigator. did he make an impression on you? >> chris serino did. he -- to me he was just doing his job. he was doing his job the way he was doing his job, and he was going to tell the truth regardless of who asked him the questions. >> so you found him to be credible? >> i did, very credible. >> when he testified that he found george zimmerman to be more or less overall truthful, did that make an impression on you? >> it did, it did, it made a big impression on me. >> why? >> because he deals with this all the time. he deals with, you know, murder, robberies. he's in it all the time. and i think he has a knack to pick out who's lying and who's not lying. >> the prosecution started off
by saying that george zimmerman was on top in the struggle and then later on they seemed to concede, well, perhaps trayvon martin was on top, but maybe was pulling away. do you feel that the prosecution really had a firm idea of what actually happened? >> i think they wanted to happen what they wanted to happen to go to their side for the prosecution. the witnesses that the defense had on, plus some of the prosecution witnesses, there was no doubt that they had seen what had happened. some of it was taped so they couldn't rebutte any of that. >> what was on the 911 tapes. >> 911 tapes and the john good calling and all of that. >> how significant were the 911 tapes to you? >> the lauer tape was the most significant. it went through before the struggle, during the struggle,
the gunshot, and then after. >> you had the parents of trayvon martin testifying. you had the family of george zimmerman, friends of george zimmerman testifying about whose voice it was on the 911 call. whose voice do you think it was on the 911 call? >> i think it was george zimmerman's. >> did everybody on the jury agree with that? >> all but probably one. >> and what made you think it was george zimmerman's voice? >> because of the evidence that he was the one that had gotten beaten. >> so you think because he was the one who had had cuts, had abrasions, he was the one getting hit, he was the one calling for help? >> well, because the witnesses of john good saw trayvon on top of george. not necessarily hitting him, because it was so dark he couldn't see, but he saw blows down towards george, and he could tell that it was george zimmerman on the bottom. he didn't know who it was, but he knew what they were wearing. >> the juror who didn't think it
was george zimmerman's voice, who thought it was trayvon martin's voice on that call, do you know why they felt it was that way? >> she didn't think it was trayvon, it could have been trayvon's. >> she wasn't sure? >> no. she wanted it give everybody absolute out of being guilty. >> but you were sure it was george zimmerman's voice? >> i was sure it was george zimmerman. >> everybody else was? >> i think they were. i don't think there was a doubt that everybody else thought it was george's voice. >> i want to ask you a bunch -- i want to ask you about some of the different witnesses. rachel jeantel, the woman who was on the phone with trayvon martin at the start of the incident. what did you make of her testimony? >> i didn't think it was very credible, but i felt very sorry for her. she didn't ask to be in this place. she didn't ask -- she wanted to go. she wanted to leave. she didn't want to be any part of this jury. i think she felt inadequate
toward everyone because of her education and her communication skills. i just felt sadness for her. >> you felt like she was in over her head? >> not over her head, she just didn't want to be there and she was embarrassed by being there because of her education and her communication skills that she just wasn't a good witness. >> did you find it hard at times to understand what she was saying? >> a lot of the times, because a lot of the times she was using phrases i have never heard before and what they meant. >> so the term creepy ass cracker that rachel jeantel said trayvon had used, you're saying that simply how trayvon and rachel talk to each other? >> sure. that's the way they talk. >> and did you see that as a negative statement or a racial statement, as the defense suggested?
>> i don't think it's really racial. i think it's just everyday life. the type of life that they live and how they are living in the environment that they are living in. >> so you didn't find her credible as a witness? >> no. >> so did you find her testimony important in terms of what she actually said? >> well, i think the most important thing is the time that she was on the phone with trayvon, so you basically, hopefully, if she heard anything, she would say she did, but the time coincides with george's statements and testimony of time limits and what had happened during that time. >> explain that. >> well, because george was on the 911 call while she was on the call with trayvon, and the times coincide and i think there was two minutes between when george hung up from his 911 call to the time trayvon and rachel had hung up. so really nothing could have
happened, because the 911 caller would have heard the nonemergency call george had called, heard something happening before that. >> she said at one point she heard the sound of wet grass. did that seem believable to you? >> well, everything was wet at that point. it was pouring down rain. >> what did you think of george zimmerman? >> i think george zimmerman is a man whose heart was in the right place but just got displaced by the vandalism in the neighborhoods and wanting to catch these people so badly that he went above and beyond what he really should have done. but i think his heart was in the right place. it just went terribly wrong. >> do you think he's guilty of something? >> i think he's guilty of not using good judgment.
when he was in the car and called 911, he shouldn't have gotten out of that car, but the 911 operator also when he was talking to him kind of egged him on. i don't know if it's their policy to tell them what to do, not to get in the car, to stay in the car, but i think he should have said, stay in your car, not, can you see where he's gone? >> do you feel george zimmerman should have been carrying a gun? >> i think he has every right to carry a gun. i think it's everybody's right to carry a gun, as long as they use it the way it's supposed to be used and be responsible in using it. >> fascinating, isn't it? let's turn to our panel for some legal perspective on all of this. in orlando, mark nejame, a criminal defense attorney and cnn legal analyst. page pate, attorney and cnn contributor. welcome to all of you.
>> good morning. >> good morning. mark, i want to get something cleared up right away, because the twitter verse has gone crazy on you. some people believe that you're actually married to this juror that anderson cooper interviewed. she's a married woman with two kids, and please set the record straight. >> yeah, i had to inform my wife she was married to a bigamist. no. there's no truth to it. we don't even live in seminole county, florida. our kids are 5 and 7. that juror's kids, i think, are in their 20s. it's just, you know, the twitter universe going amok. i've never been, will never be, and have never been married to anybody on that jury. so, no, it's not true. >> enough said. so, i'll post the first question to you. three of the jurors first voted zimmerman was guilty while three voted he was not guilty. in the end, juror number 37 said they were confused by the laws involved, manslaughter, stand your ground, second-degree
murder, so they chose to vote not guilty. is that unusual, mark? >> it's actually very usual, and i think that this jury is, arguably, representative of not in its racial component, but in its breakdown of how they looked at this case to much of the country. i think if you were to talk to everybody, it's pretty much an even split. half the people don't think he was guilty, the other, you know, percentage think that it should have been manslaughter and some people think it should have gone as high as second degree, but the challenge is, if, in fact, you have ambiguity, if you have unclarity, if there's questions and you're scratching your head, that's the reasonable doubt standard. and the jury instructions are incredibly complex. i was huddled throughout this whole case with lawyers and research people all trying to figure out so we could get the right information on the air, and that was a group of lawyers who studied this case from day one and i've been doing this for 30 years and we have questions.
how do we expect six people who knew very little about a case to begin with to be able to sit down and digest 27 pages of jury instructions? >> jason, don't we want our jurors to come out of that room and say, i don't understand these laws? isn't it important that they understand what they are deciding? >> you would think. >> i'm sorry for interrupting you for interrupting me, but what i was wanting to say is, if there's one thing that we need to do is take a look at maybe how we can make this more understandable to the average person, because this happens every day. but on this day, the country was able to see a trial in court rather than understanding that we deal with this every day of our lives. >> jason? >> what i was going to say is this. probably a lot of people after hearing this interview wished that they had just asked more questions. it's rather disappointing hearing them we had a feeling something wrong happened but it was so confusing we decided he
was not guilty. that's not a particularly satisfying answer when you're dealing with a murder case, but i found her interview compelling. she's the epitome why people thought george zimmerman would get off. demographics is destiny. she's the example of why no one thought george zimmerman was going to get convicted of anything. >> page, you're nodding your head in agreement with jason. juror 37 kept calling zimmerman george, said george had a big heart, said he was guilty of not using good judgment. she said he shouldn't have gotten out of that car, but he really cared about that community. she did not talk in those terms about trayvon martin, why do you suppose that was, page? >> this doesn't surprise me at all. i've talked to a lot of juries after i've finished, completed a trial, and you've got to go back to jury selection. like it or not, race matters in selecting a jury and trial lawyers who ignore that fact do so at their peril. a jury is going to pick which
side it relates to, individual jurors will do that, and frankly, in this case, those jurors related more to george zimmerman, so zimmerman witnesses were necessarily going to be more credible. his side of the story was necessarily going to be more believable. so it matters, and it did in this case. >> and mark, i'll pose this question to you, this juror did not think rachel jeantel was a credible witness, but again she greatly admired those who testified for the defense, so why did the state bring this case to trial, why did they put rachel jeantel on the stand to be their star witness? >> well, they had to put her on the stand simply because she was in a cornerstone of their case, she was a key component, the last person to talk to trayvon martin alive, but you hear people criticize ms. jeantel and you hear people criticize juror b37. both sides claim that the other are culturally unaware of the other. well, that's, in fact, true. you see, juror b37 is a person
who's got her life experiences, as rachel jeantel is a woman who has her life experiences, and we do have a cultural divide. we do have in some instances a racial divide, and for both sides to attack the other because they were being insensitive to the other simply highlights the fact that we are not as homogeneous as we all would like to think, that, in fact, we have a lot of separations, culturally. and it's not fair to attack one or the other for not being in that world, because rachel jeantel was very much not in the world of b37 and b37 was very much not in the world of rachel jeantel. that's the reality. >> yet, jason, this juror also said race had nothing to do with their decision. >> right. that's nonsense. look, people -- all of this speaks to the overall cultural knowledge of everybody involved. people who say that race has nothing to do with anything are wrong, okay? it's like saying gender has nothing to do with anything. it is a reality. how that reality affects you will vary, but anyone who says
that those tend to be the kinds of people that are going to be less sensible to the plight of those different from them. it was amazingly condescending for her to project on rachel jeantel, she was just ashamed to talk in front of us. is anyone surprised a woman who expresses those kinds of attitudes would have this belief about a trial? i'm not at all. >> that's harsh. i have to end it all, thank you, you're going to stick around, be with us for the next hour, but thank you for joining us right now. i appreciate it. we'll have more of the riveting interview in the next hour. the heart of the matter, why did george zimmerman resort to deadly force? >> you believe george zimmerman felt his life was in danger? >> i do, i really do. >> do you think trayvon martin -- >> next hour, how the jury viewed zimmerman and what they believe happened that night. that's one hour from now. in other news this morning, a north korean ship, hidden
weapons, and a suicide attempt. it all happened in a port in panama. what appears to be missile parts hidden in the cargo of brown sugar. this ship was taken into custody last night, but the arrest of 35 crew members was not easy. ian lee joins us live from seoul to tell us more. good morning. >> reporter: morning, carol. what they found what was a drug tip-off, but what they found was a lot different, like you said, they found missile parts hidden among bags of brown sugar. and if this is truth, and this is a clear brazen attempt by the north koreans to transport weapons within the united states' backyard from cuba, back to north korea in a clear violation of the u.n. sanctions against north korea, which bars it from importing and exporting weapons, panama has said, though, that they are going to bring a u.n. team in to inspect them to see what they really are. but when they are trying to take
the ship, the 35 crew members tried to resist the panama authorities and also the captain allegedly tried to commit suicide in the attempt. so definitely a very tense moment there. >> ian lee reporting live from seoul this morning. 21 minutes past the hour. time to check our top stories. russian media is reporting that nsa leaker edward snowden has applied for temporary asylum in russia as russian president vladimir putin said snowden is shifting his position when it comes to meeting asylum. putin said snowden must stop harming the united states if he wanted to harm the country and late last week snowden said he would not do that in the future. encouraging news about ailing country singer randy travis. he is awake and starting physical therapy. the 54-year-old grammy winner had emergency surgery last week to relieve pressure in his brain following a stroke. doctors say he'll need months to recover. the northeast is bracing for
a great big heat wave. philadelphia will see highs in the upper 90s, washington in the mid 90s, and in new york, a very humid 90 degrees, which is where we find indra petersons this morning. morning, indra. >> definitely hot. doesn't feel like morning. even early on, 80 degrees with 70% humidity. that's the big difference. huge dome of high pressure is parking itself here and it is prolonged heat. that's really the danger out there. people forget it is literally the number one killer of weather-related events. very dangerous situation. we're talking about temperatures 10 degrees above normal currently and adding that humidity even in the afternoon. it's going to feel like 100 to 105 degrees. major metropolitan areas. we're talking new york, d.c., all of southern new england, philadelphia today, all dealing with this, even detroit, michigan. that's the problem. the question is, how long is it going to last, when are we going to get the relief? a cold front will eventually slip through. take this warm, moist air and add to that all of this moisture
with the cold front and you're talking about the severe weather threat and that's expected to pick up thursday, friday, and through the weekend. kind of a mixed bag. it will cool off, but also talking about the severe weather threat. >> i know you're wanting to put your feet in the fountain behind you, i'll let you get going. thanks so much. yoenis cespedes not even on the all-star team, but that did not stop the oakland a's slugger. cespedes still had five outs left when he launched his moon shot that beat washington's bryce harper in the final round. he is the first non all-star to win the home run derby. that is awesome. we'll have more coming up in bleacher report. just ahead in the newsroom, it's been a record breaking run on wall street, but can stocks keep it up for another day? opening bell minutes away. [ female announcer ] last day, deb.
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take longer to come back. he was 31. authorities have ruled out foul play. a new face will be shaking up things on the view. actress comedian jenny mccarthy will be joining the team starting this fall. mccarthy said it's been her lifelong dream to join "the view." she's been a guest host several times, more than several times, but her hiring is stirring up controversy. nichelle turner joins us from new york. really? >> 17 times she's been a guest on "the view," carol, as a matter of fact. you know, i think she is going to stir a little something up on the show. jenny mccarthy has a lot of activities on her resume. she's a catholic schoolgirl turned "playboy" center fold, actor, author, activist. broke out in the '90s on mtv. since then, she's had talk shows, a sitcom, wrote best-selling books, now she's 40 years old and still looks like
she could pose for "playboy," by the way. in her advice column in "the chicago sun times," jenny says she's going to do anything she can to provoke conversation on the show. she also says, pretty funny, i might add, bradley cooper better watch out next time he does the show because she might go into his dressing room in only a towel. it's that edge that they hope she brings to the show. that's what producers are looking for, but she does have a serious side and that's what brings the controversy in this situation, carol. >> she's been antivaccine, that's the controversy surrounding her and some people don't think that message should be sent out on national television. >> there's a lot of doctors who feel that way. there's a lot of them out there that believe her views could cost lives. she's been a very public advocate for children with autism ever since her son was diagnosed several years ago. she's become kind of this hero for parents who have kids with autism.
that's the good side, but she's also been very public about her relief vaccines can cause the disease, and that's when she comes under fire, because medical research says there's no link between vaccinations and autism, but there are parents out there who believe they shouldn't give their kids these vaccinations because they are worried about that. it's a balance. she had a bit of an issue with barbara on "the view" one day when they were discussing this, so i think there could be very interesting conversation coming up this fall. >> that's absolutely true. nichelle turner, thank you. >> we always have interesting conversation, carol. >> we do. we should be on there. good morning, thank you so much for joining us. i'm carol costello. just about 30 minutes past the hour, time to check the top stories. speaking under the cover of darkness, a juror in the george zimmerman case shared her thoughts on the verdict exclusively with cnn. >> i want people to know that we
put everything into everything to get this verdict. we didn't just go in there and say we're going to come in here and just do not guilty, not guilty. we thought about it for hours and cried over it afterwards. i don't think any of us could ever do anything like that ever again. >> in the next hour we'll have more of the juror's comments, including what she thinks happened that night. also, just minutes from now, the reverend al sharpton will step in front of the u.s. justice department building and call for action in support of trayvon martin. today's event comes as sharpton's group is planning a series of justice for trayvon rallies and prayer vigils this saturday. now a check on your money. wall street poised for a mixed open this morning. positive earnings reports, but investors are still waiting to hear from ben bernanke tomorrow.
alison kosik is in new york. has the bell rung? >> reporter: the bell has rung, it has. i'm not at the new york stock exchange, so i had to check. stocks are pretty much flat at the open here. kind of like deja vu, closed at record highs once again yesterday, makes it the 26th time this year the dow has done that. today could be one of those mixed sessions, though. stocks are hovering at the flat line. may be caution as investors anxiously await tomorrow. ben bernanke will be giving his semiannual congressional testimony. wall street has been on the edge of their seat about bernanke and what he may say about stimulus, but even if stocks make teeny tiny gains, it could mean record lows. goldman sachs beat estimates on both profit and sales, joining jpmorgan chase, wells fargo, and citigroup that did the same. we are watching shares of
earlier this hour we heard part of cnn's exclusive interview with a juror in the george zimmerman case. she's the first person in the panel to come forward. now we want to hear from the prosecution's star witness in another cnn exclusive. rachel jeantel was on the phone with trayvon martin in the moments before that deadly fight. she says she believes racism drove george zimmerman to profile and ultimately kill her teenaged friend. >> and be honest with me, rachel, do you think that was racially motivated or more a case of somebody he thought was a young thug, black or white? >> it was racial. let's be honest, racial. if he was -- if trayvon was
white and had a hoodie on, would that happen? because that was around 7:00 or something. that's around people walk their dogs, people still outside, all that. >> the jury, the juror tonight made it clear the jury never really discussed race as being a motivating factor here. >> remind you, they are white, one hispanic. >> do you think they understood the world that you and trayvon come from? >> no. >> don west gave you a very hard time, the defense attorney. >> don west. >> what is your -- what is your view of him? >> like i have to say, lucky i'm a christian. >> in orlando we have mark nejame, a criminal defense attorney and cnn legal analyst and here in atlanta, jason
johnson, hln contributor and political science professor. let me ask -- let me start rather by asking both of you to watch this next clip, then we'll discuss it on the other side. >> it's just shock, like, wow. you can't believe, like, you can't believe what just happened. you were just on the phone with the person and you sound normal and then a situation happened, and then i'm finding out two days later he dead. and i have to be -- by a friend telling me, oh, do you know he died at 7:17, and i had to look at my phone, my phone say 7:16. and people got the nerve to tell
me, oh, why didn't i come to that funeral? i didn't put trayvon at that funeral. i didn't put trayvon on that casket. >> so, what strikes me about this, why didn't we see that rachel jeantel on the stand, jason? >> because the prosecution did a terrible job. i think we can all agree that rachel jeantel probably was more hostile and aggressive and rude than she needed to be on the stand, but this woman, obviously, had a story to tell and we saw in this interview last night, she is much more thoughtful, much more eloquent, and much more well spoken than anything that the prosecution managed to bring out of her. it's an absolute failure on their behalf we didn't see this rachel jeantel and hear her talk about this trayvon martin when they were in the trial and when it actually mattered. >> mark, aren't lawyers supposed to prepare witnesses to take the stand? we're having audio problems with mark. we're going to get that mixed,
but i'll pose that question to you, jason. i actually talked with rachel jeantel's attorney, who said she wasn't really prepared in any way. >> yeah, and that's -- this speaks to the cynicism that many people have expressed about this entire legal system, from the failure of the police to do an adequate job, to the sort of, you know, hack-knee problems that we saw in the prosecution, their inability to bring their story out of witnesses. how could you put a 19 year old who has speaking difficulties on the stand to be interviewed by an excellent defense attorney and you didn't tell her how she needs to communicate, how she needs to behave? it's an inexcusable failure and i think the martin family should be disgusted they were represented so poorly, at least in this particular area. >> we still don't have mark -- okay, i want to get the other side from mark. we're going to try to get his microphone open soon, but jason, we heard from juror number 37, she said she didn't find rachel
jeantel's testimony credible. she felt sorry for her. >> right, because she's condescending and snide and probably had some very strong preconceived notions. i thought it was fascinating to listen to her, not just that she talked about george, the woman came half a step away from saying those people. people know how you're supposed to speak in public, but it was very clear the kinds of jurors she identified were from her background, speaking to a guy in the vietnam war probay reminded her of uncles and grandfathers. john good, i'm not saying john good wasn't a credible witness, but she identified with the people she recognized from her life and people like rachel jeantel she probably thinks are sad bask et cases from the hood and, therefore, she wasn't going to listen to her. >> well, in defense of this juror, rachel jeantel, i mean, she didn't do a good job. i'm just going to play this clip to remind our viewers what rachel jeantel was like on the stand. let's listen. >> what is your view of george zimmerman?
>> weak. scary. high. from his father. >> why do you say that? >> if you're a real man, you would have stand on that stage and tell what happened. >> all right. actually, she was describing how she felt about george zimmerman in that clip, jason, i want you to pause, i want to get mark nejame's microphone fixed, so we're going to take a break. we'll come back with much more.
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okay, the technical gremlins have left the studio in orlando. we have mark back, thankfully. mark, i'll ask you the question, if the jurors had seen the rachel jeantel that was on piers morgan last night, instead of the rachel jeantel at trial, could it have made a difference? >> could have made a difference.
this is another failure on behalf of the state to properly represent trayvon martin. that woman last night was a sweet, funny, engaging person. that's anything but what people saw when she took the stand, and if that's her true personality, which it surely seems to be, then the state should have sat down with her and explained what court was about, because it's a very intimidating process. she'd never been to court before. she'd never experienced anything like this, let alone any case, let alone this case. so for people to criticize her without understanding that the state did not sit down with her and explain to her or at least get her ready for her testimony, doesn't mean you change your testimony, you just take the pain away from it. you take the surprise away from it, and the challenge with that is that the jurors only see a snapshot of people and that's when they are on the stand, so that's all the jurors saw. and culturally, we know they did not relate to her anymore than
she related to the jurors, and people shouldn't be pointing fingers, that's prejudice across the board. people need to understand we do have a cultural divide, and, in fact, what the jurors saw when she appeared on the stand because in my opinion her lack of preparedness by the state attorney in the case. if she had been on the stand and the jury would have seen that, they would have come away with a completely different impression, in my opinion, about who trayvon martin really was. >> in the entire trial, mark, did we ever get a sense of who trayvon martin was? >> not according to what we hear from his parents, not according to what we hear from ms. jeantel. now, the state opted not to put any other family members on. we didn't see any of his friends being put on. we didn't get a picture of trayvon martin, at least from the state perspective. you know, let people ask the state, why did they not put on other people who could give a better picture, better composite
of who trayvon martin was? you can't fault the defense for having done that for george zimmerman. that's their job. the question people need to ask is, why did the state not do that? >> can you blame the jury for coming to its conclusion? >> well, i don't think blame is necessarily the word. i think the bigger issue here is just how the presentation did not match the seriousness of the crime and how the presentation paled in comparison to what the defense did. i think this is very telling, if we had seen that rachel jeantel from piers morgan's interview last night and she had been transformed into the rachel jeantel last week because of don west cross examination, it would have been more effective. this nice kid being torn apart by this guy, again, massive failures, i don't know if it would have changed the results, initially three jurors wanted manslaughter to convict him, but it certainly didn't help. >> go ahead, mark. >> if i could add, look, i think
this jury was very pensive and very deliberative. 16 hours they spent going through the evidence. when you listen to b37's interview last night, she knew every fact of that case chapter and verse. i didn't hear one factual mistake she stated that came out during the course of that trial, so you can't fault a jury for making a decision upon the presentation made by the state or by the lawyers. that's their job is to take the evidence in front of them. they don't have the benefit of twitter and facebook and media when they are trying that case. they can only make a determination based on the evidence presented to them. and based on the evidence presented to them, there was reasonable doubt, because the rest of it was not in there for whatever reason. it wasn't there. so to fault them for being deliberative and disagreeing with their opinion is not the direction that the public who disagree with the verdict need to go. the questions need to be posed to the prosecutor. why do you go with second-degree
murder when almost everybody knew that was a failed strategy? why did you just not stick with manslaughter? why did you not make the jurors more empathetic to trayvon martin, the young man who was dead? those are the questions that need to be posed, and do not, in my opinion, fault a juror for making a decision on the evidence presented. that infects and contaminates the entire jury system. this was not a quick jury. a lot of people thought they'd come back friday night. they stayed the weekend. >> they did, they did. you know, that juror got very emotional about the decision they came to. i've got to end it there. going to have much more coming up, jason johnson, mark nejame, you'll be back. thanks for joining us at this moment. we've been hearing from juror b37 speaking exclusively to anderson cooper, hear more tonight on ac 360. [ male announcer ] oh, dan, checking out of the doubletree isn't the end.
52 minutes past the hour. time to check our top stories. the right-hand man to former mobster james "whitey qul bulger will take the stand this week. bulger's former partner known as stephen "rifleman" flemmi will come face to face with bulger for the first time since the early 1990s. jurors jirmd yesterday after the medical examiner deemted the gruesome wounds of 19 of bulger's victims, most of whom were shot repeatedly in the head and the neck. a woman in china is now safe and sound after getting stuck in a wall for seven hours. the woman was taking a shortcut on the way home when she got stuck in the wall. she was rescued by firefighters after neighbors complained they heard crying in between the walls of that alley on saturday night. as you can see, she's out, and she's okay this morning. an illinois traffic stop has led to the arrest of a man for two double homicides over five years. police were planning to arrest anthony joseph garcia today but say he "became mobile,"
prompting them to take iediate action. all of the victims were connected to garcia's residency in the pathology department at creighton university. we know it's your videoconference of the day. hi! hi, buddy! that's why the free wifi and hot breakfast are something to smile about. book a great getaway now and feel the hamptonality woman: what do you mean, homeowners insurance
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we've all done it, used our smartphone while it's plugged in and charging. but a chinese news agency says a woman has died doing just that. the agency reports the woman was electrocuted after she answered her iphone 5 while it was plugged into the charger. of course, we're asking this morning is that really possible? we hope not. although we're sorry this woman died. cnn money technology lori siegel has been following the story. so what happened? >> unbelievable to think that this kind of thing could happen. >>from just answering your phone. apparently she had an iphone 5, she had an iphone 5 charger. and she was electrocuted. this is an ongoing investigation. we reached out to apple. they're taking this seriously. let me read what you they said in a statement. they said "we're deeply saddened
to learn of this tragic incident and offer our condolences to the ma family." they also said they're going to fully investigate and cooperate with authorities in this matter. obviously, carol, not very comforting when you think of how many of us have iphone 5s, how many of us talk on their phones when they're plugged in. that being said this isn't the first time we've heard of something like this happening. batteries have exploded in the past. chuck schumer recently said we need to look at cell phone safety because it's becoming a huge issue as these phones are getting a little smarter and have more processing power. carol? >> laurie segall, thanks so much. "newsroom" continues after a quick break. than it appears. seize the summer with up to 50% off hotels at travelocity. "stubborn love" by the lumineers did you i did. email? so what did you think of the house? did you see the school ratings? oh, you're right. hey babe, i got to go. bye daddy! have a good day at school, ok?
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there's nothing else to be done about it. >> this as pro-trayvon martin rallies in oakland turn violent. also, the prosecution's star witness that wasn't. >> don west gave you a very hard time. the defense attorney. >> don west. >> what is your -- what is your view of him? >> mm, mm, mm. what do i have to say? because i'm a christian. plus, captured military cargo and a north korean captain who attempts suicide. we'll take you to the korean peninsula. and -- >> not good to be driving. and i can't even turn around and face the storm right now. uh. >> arizona is slammed while the northeast bakes. you're live in the "cnn newsroom."
good morning. thanks so much for being with me. i'm carol costello. cloaked in darkness, her identity hidden in silhouette, a juror in the george zimmerman case talks exclusively to cnn. she reveals the secretive and impassioned conversations that led to that not guilty verdict. and that acquittal still thunders in american cities nearly three days later. this was the scene earlier this morning in oakland. police fired tear gas on protesters who turned rowdy and violent. also overnight in los angeles, one photographer was injured when a protester vented his anger by throwing rocks and breaking windows. more than a dozen people arrested there. and just hours earlier these demonstrations remain quite peaceful. some 2,000 people massed outside the cnn center here in atlanta, protesting the verdict and calling for federal charges against george zimmerman. so why did zimmerman walk free saturday night? one juror explains in this exclusive interview with anderson cooper. >> if we can, let's talk about
how you reached the verdict. when the closing arguments were done, rebuttal was done, you go into that jury room. >> mm-hmm. >> what happened? >> well, the first day we went in, we were trying to get ourselves organized because there's no instructions on what you do, how you do it, and when you do it. so we all decided -- we nominated a foreman so she could have the voice and kind of run the show, if anybody gets -- you know, so everybody's not talking over everybody. if somebody starts talking, somebody else starts talking, and then she would say, you know, stop, we've got one person at a time. we've got to do this. and so the first day we got all the evidence on the tables and on the walls. then we asked for an inventory because it was just too time-consuming looking for evidence when it was in no order whatsoever. >> did you take an initial vote
to see where everybody was? >> we did. >> so where was everybody? how was that first vote? >> we had three not guilties, one second-degree murder, and two manslaughters. >> so half the jury felt he was not guilty, two manslaughters, and one second degree. >> exactly. >> can you say where -- do you want to say where you were on that? >> i was not guilty. >> so going into it, once the evidence -- all the evidence had been presented, you felt he was not guilty? >> i did. i think if the medical examiner could have done a better job at presenting trayvon's -- preserving trayvon's evidence -- >> the state medical -- >> i mean the state. they should have bagged his hands, they should have dried his clothes. they should have done a lot of things they didn't do. >> do you feel you know truly what happened? >> i have a rendition of what i believe happened. and i think it's probably as close as anybody could come to
what happened. but nobody's going to know what exactly happened except for george. >> so you took that first vote. you saw basically the jury split, half the jurors including yourself thought not guilty. two people thought manslaughter. one person thought second-degree murder had been proven. >> mm-hmm. >> how do you then go about deciding things? >> we started looking at the evidence. we listened to all the tapes. two, three, four, five times. >> the 911 recordings. >> the 911 recordings. then there's the re-enactment tape. there were some tapes from previous 911 calls that george had made. >> the re-enactment tape, that's the tape of george zimmerman walking police through what he says happened. >> exactly. we looked through pretty much everything. that's why it took us so long. we were looking through the evidence. and then at the end we just --
we got done and then we just started looking at the law, what exactly we could find and how we should vote in this case. and the law became very confusing. >> yeah, tell me about that. >> it became very confusing. we had stuff thrown at us. we had the second-degree murder charge, the manslaughter charge. then we had self-defense, stand your ground. and i think there was one other one. but the manslaughter case, we actually had gotten it down to manslaughter because the second-degree wasn't second-degree anymore. >> so the person who felt it was second degree going into it, you had convinced them, okay, it's manslaughter? >> through going through the law. and then we had sent a question to the judge, and it was not a question that they could answer yes or no. so they sent it back saying that
if we could narrow it down to a question, asking us if -- what exactly -- what about the law and how to handle it, but if they could just have -- i guess -- i don't know. >> you sent a question out to the judge about manslaughter. >> yes. >> and about what -- >> and what could be applied to the manslaughter. we were looking at the self-defense. one of the girls said -- asked if you can put all the leading things into that one moment where he feels it's a matter of life or death to shoot this boy or if it was just at the heat of passion at that moment. >> so that juror wanted to know whether the things that had brought george zimmerman to that place -- >> exactly. >> -- not just in the minute or
two before the shot actually went off but -- >> exactly. >> -- earlier that day, even prior crime? >> not prior crimes. just the situation leading to it. all the steps. as the ball got rolling, if all that -- >> from him spotting trayvon martin to getting out of his vehicle to following -- >> exactly. >> whether all of that could play a role in -- >> determining the self-defense or not. mm-hmm. >> did you feel like you understood the instructions from the judge? because they were very complex. i mean, reading them, they were tough to follow. >> right. and that was our problem. i mean, it was just so confusing what was what and what we could apply to what. because, i mean, there was a couple of them in there that wanted to find him guilty of something. and after hours and hours and hours of deliberating over the
law and reading it over and over and over again, we decided there's just no way -- other place to go. >> because of the two options you had, second-degree murder or manslaughter. you felt neither applied. >> right. well, because of the heat of the moment and the stand your ground. he had a right to defend himself. if he felt threatened, that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right. >> so even though it was he who had gotten out of the car, followed trayvon martin, that didn't matter in the deliberations. what mattered was those final seconds, minutes when there was an altercation and whether or not -- in your mind the most important thing was whether or not george zimmerman felt his life was in danger. >> well, that's how we read the law. that's how we got to the point of everybody being not guilty. >> so that was the belief of the jury, that you had to zero in on those final minutes slash
seconds, about the threat that george zimmerman believed he faced. >> that's compactly what h lexa happened. >> so whether it was george zimmerman getting out of the vehicle, whether it was right to get out of the vehicle, whether he was a wannabe cop, whether he was overeager, none of that in the final analysis mattered, what mattered was those seconds before the shot went off did george zimmerman fear for his life? >> exactly. that's exactly what happened. >> and you have note -- do you have any doubt that george zimmerman feared for his life? >> i have no doubt george feared for his life in the situation he was in at the time. >> how has this been for you? i mean, how was making that decision, when you all realized, okay, the last holdout juror has decided, okay, manslaughter doesn't -- we can't hold george zimmerman to manslaughter, there's nothing you can really hold him to, not guilty. in that jury room emotionally what was that like? >> it was emotional to a point. but after we had put our vote in and the bailiff had taken our
vote, that's when everybody started to cry. >> tell me about that. >> it was just hard, thinking that somebody lost their life and there's nothing else could be done about it. i mean, it's what happened. it's sad. it's a tragedy this happened. but it happened. i think both were responsible for the situation they had gotten themselves into. i think both of them could have walked away. it just didn't happen. >> it's still emotional for you. >> it is. it's very emotional. >> can you explain the emotion? >> it's just sad that we all had to come together and figure out what is going to happen to this man's life afterwards. you find him not guilty, but
you're responsible for that not guilty and all the people that want him guilty aren't going to have any -- any closure. >> do you fl sorry for trayvon martin? >> i feel sorry for both of them. i feel sorry for trayvon and the situation he was in. and i feel sorry for george because of the situation he got himself in. >> do you realize how big this trial had become? >> i had no clue. no clue whatsoever. >> did it make sense to you that there was this much attention on it? >> it didn't to me because i didn't see it as a racial thing. i saw it as a murder case, as a second-degree murder case. it was just unbelievable that it had gotten so big and so
political -- not really political. i don't want to say that. but so emotional for everybody involved. i never would have thought -- when we went over to the hotel to get all of our stuff from the hotel, we got to the hotel and the parking lot was just a regular parking lot. by the time we came out, it looked like disney world. there was media. there were police. and it really kind of started to sink in when we went to get our stuff. and then the state police showed up because they were going to be our escorts home. >> are you scared now? >> i'm not scared. i don't know how to say it. >> you clearly don't want people to see your face. >> no. but i don't want anybody else around me to be affected by anyone else. i mean, i'm not really scared, but i want to be cautious, if
that makes any sense. >> it's understandable. >> yeah. >> but you want people to know -- why did you want to speak? >> i want people to know that we put everything into everything to get this verdict. we didn't just go in there and say, we're going to come in here and just do guilty, not guilty. we thought about it for hours and cried over it afterwards. i don't think any of us could ever do anything like that ever again. >> let's turn to our panel for some legal perspective on all of this. in orlando we have mark nejame, a criminal defense attorney and cnn legal analyst. here in atlanta we have jason johnson, an hln contributor and political science professor at hiram college. and also page pate, a criminal defense attorney and hln
contributor. welcome back, gentlemen. >> thanks. >> hi. >> we saw this juror get very emotional about how gut-wrenching this process was, how heartbreaking this case was. how much do you think that these jurors have been through? and given the protests, do you think most of the other jurors will choose to remain anonymous? >> yes. i think that very few will come out in light of the true division that exists in our country over this. and i think that the jury represented the division when they first went to them you saw basically a 3-3 split. three for acquittal two, for manslaughter, one for second-degree murder. i think that probably reflects pretty closely, if you were to take a poll, the overall consensus within the country. it's pretty much split down the middle. so -- and there are people who feel so passionate on both sides. but remember, the jurors only made a determination on the evidence presented to them. they don't have the benefit of the tv news and twitter and facebook and all the other conversations that we all engage
in. they were limited by the rules of evidence. and i think that she agonized. i think, though, that there's really an unfairness on both sides, that people are not understanding the great cultural divide that we -- although we're one country, we have very, very many pockets and a lot of us don't understand each other. >> well, let's go back to why these jurors decided what they did. and i'll pose this question to you, page. she said they wanted to find george zimmerman guilty of something, but because of the heat of the moment and florida's stand your ground law they just couldn't. so do you think that stand your ground was the deciding factor? >> well, i think it made a huge difference in this case. you know, the prosecution from start to finish was trying to use as much emotion as possible, hopefully to convince the jury to do just that, you know, don't let him walk away. maybe not murder but perhaps manslaughter. but this man should not be carrying a gun. do something. feel sorry for trayvon martin. but the law really places a very heavy burden on the state.
it requires them to disprove the argument of self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. and i just don't think they were able to do that. >> and jason, you heard her say she felt sorry for both trayvon martin and for george zimmerman. and there was another part of the interview that we didn't air this hour where she said what really struck her was when george zimmerman went to that woman's house and the woman had been robbed. i think it was a home invasion. and he comforted the woman. that really affected her. when anderson cooper asked her, would you want george zimmerman to be your neighborhood watch guy today, she paused a long time and, you know, kind of intimated, yeah, i'd be okay with that because i think george zimmerman, she said, learned a lesson. >> yes. he learned a lesson that he can shoot a young man that he may or may not have racially profiled because he thought it was the right thing to do. what i thought was fascinating about this interview is honestly how disingenuous it was to me. you can't tell me you that didn't know this was going to be an important case and yet you had a book deal less than 24 hours later. she probably had that in mind
before this even happened. i have no doubt that the jury sincerely agonized over this decision. but every other word that comes out of this juror's mouth says to me that because of her life experience and her background the likelihood that the prosecution would have been able to present a case that was going to get her to understand or empathize with a different point of view is very limited. she said someone died. she hardly mentioned the name trayvon until anderson cooper mentioned it. but she said george throughout the entire interview. it was very clear culturally and personally and emotionally who she connected with regardless of what the evidence was going to be. >> yeah, and -- >> yeah, but -- >> just about the book deal, and i've got to get this in. she did initially with her husband want to write a book and she talked to payabler but she said she backed out of that deal and she wants to remain anonymous. just to so it's clear. but you are right, jason she did approach a publisher. mark, i want to ask you, the makeup of the jury in light of what jason said, was that the
biggest mistake the state made? >> there are so many mistakes it would be hard to categorize the biggest mistake. the fact is the state was woefully inadequate of presenting trayvon martin as a person. they did not humanize him by just simply claiming skittles and tea was not enough to show who trayvon martin was. the defense, on the other hand, clearly by this juror's response humanized george zimmerman. now, whatever side anybody is on, those are the facts if you look at it unbiased in that trial. people did not walk away understanding trayvon martin. you never heard any of his friends take the stand. you never heard -- no friends came on to identify his voice or to talk about what kind of person he was or anything like that. so we walk away. but for miss jeantel, who had -- talked about the phone conversation, you walked away not knowing who trayvon martin was. by the state putting in the tapes and showing george zimmerman driving through the
neighborhood and talking on the shows and all, they -- there you were able to see who george zimmerman was from the defense perspective. so you know, the state was woefully inadequate in making trayvon martin the human being that he was. >> okay. we're going to talk a lot more about this case at the bottom of the hour. but i want to thank all of you for now. mark nejame, page pate, and jason johnson. thanks. >> thank you. don't miss "ac 360" tonight. you're going to hear more from juror b37 including what happened during deliberations. that's tonight on "ac 360." a blistering heat wave hits the northeast. we'll have a live report for you from new york, where people are sweating it out. they're also concerned about the electrical grid. we'll tell you about that.
wikileaks reporting that nsa leaker edward snowden has applied for temporary asylum in russia. snowden's move comes as russian president vladimir putin says snowden is "shifting his position" when it comes to meeting the terms of that asylum. putin previously said snowden must stop harming the united states if he wanted to stay in
russia. late last week snowden said he would not do that in the future. hidden weapons have led to the arrest of a north korean crew and the seizure of their ship from a port in panama. the cargo was discovered last night. what appears to be missile parts were hidden in the cargo of brown sugar. the import and export of north korean weapons is banned by the united nations. in arizona the sentencing phase of the jodi arias trial resumes today. back in may arias was convicted in the murder of her ex-boyfriend. but that jury could not decide if she should get the death penalty. so a new jury will be put together to decide her fate. in the weather this morning it's going to be one hot day in new york city this morning. the city under a heat advisory today and tomorrow with temperatures that could feel like they're well over 100 degrees. and as you can see, new york people, you are not alone in your pain. let's head out to times square and anna koren. good morning. >> reporter: good morning. i'm going to be honest. it's warm but it's not
unbearable. however, it would be a completely different story in the coming hours as the sun creeps out from behind the buildings here in times square. as you say, the weather bureau has issued a heat advisory for the northeast of the united states. certainly here in new york it will reach the mid 90s, although you know, with humidity it will feel like triple digits. so certainly, you know, be careful today. that is the message. we caught up with a couple of people to find out how they are dealing with the heat. >> we didn't know in february that it was going to be this hot in july. >> the first thing we're going to do now is have an ice cream. usually we have ice creams around 4:00. now it's going to be before noon. we're going to enjoy ice cream most of the day. no burgers. >> typical new york in july. what are you going to do? it's either snowing or it's hot. one or the other. no one's ever happy. >> reporter: i think it sums it
up beautifully, doesn't it? no one's ever happy. it is summer in new york. what do we expect? it happens every single year. but as you can see, people here in times square taking shelter from the heat. it is going to be a completely different story, carol, once the sun does come out. but look, common sense must prevail. people need to hydrate, keep out of the sun. and certainly, you know, check on the elderly and the young. if you have an elderly neighbor, perhaps check on them. they of course are the most vulnerable. there are more than 400 cooling centers situated around new york. so if you're doing it tough today perhaps you need to go and cool off. >> anna coreen, thanks so much. up next in the newsroom, asiana airlines taking action against a tv station for reporting the pilots of the flight 214 -- actually, they reported the wrong names, and they were not very nice names. they were actually -- well, you could consider them racist names. we'll get a full report next. (ding, ding)
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good morning. thank you so much for being with me. i'm carol costello. at 30 minutes past the hour. let's check our top story. a little over a week ago asiana airlines flight 214 approached its landing at san francisco too low and too slowly. it crashed, killing three people and seriously injuring others. now after a bizarre and mind-boggling false tv report about the names of those pilots the airline says it's going to take action. keon la has more for you. >> reporter: it's now an infamous report pain tofl even watch. in the midst of the crash investigation of asiana flight 214 san francisco station ktvu reports the supposed release of the pilot names. >> sum ting wong. wi tu lo. >> reporter: a jaw-dropping and now obvious juvenile prank. the story made all the more amazing when the next day it's learned the fictitious names were actually confirmed by an ntsb intern. the ntsb issued an apology, as
did the tv station. >> from all of us here at ktvu we can only offer our sincerest apology in this case. >> i was like, is this for real? am i really seeing this? >> reporter: phil hu is a blogger behind angry asian man. he is, as you might guess, angry but also incredulous. >> this is completely inappropriate, especially because we're talking about a tragedy. people died. people were seriously injured. i almost was bracing myself for the jokes that would come. >> reporter: and they did come and are still coming. from hbo's "real time with bill maher." >> now that we know the cause of that asiana airline crash was the pilots flying too slowly, i don't want to hear another word about me doing asian driver jokes. >> reporter: it speaks to the way asian-americans are depicted in pop culture. often like this character from "the hangover." >> that's point. it's funny. >> reporter: which may help explain asiana airlines' reaction. in a bizarre turn the beleaguered korean company says the first lawsuit post-crash
will be their own, against the tv station that aired the erroneous report. the airline tells cnn "after a legal review the company decided to file a lawsuit against the network because it was their report that resulted in damaging the company's image." if officially filed, some lawyers say that lawsuit will be hard to prove in court. and the move's provoked a backlash on social media, roundly calling asiana's move myopic. on twitter, "asiana's decision to sue ktvu is indicative of deranged management." and "funny how asiana thinks it's this news report that's making them look bad and not the crashed plane." kyung lah, cnn, los angeles. coming up, trayvon martin's friend rachel jeantel, she was on "piers morgan" last night. hear what she's saying now. >> tell me first of all your reaction to the fact that george zimmerman was acquitted. >> disappointment.
upset. angry. question. and mad. i'm gonna have to ask you to power down your little word game. i think your friends will understand. oh...no, it's actually my geico app...see? ...i just uh paid my bill. did you really? from the plane? yeah, i can manage my policy, get roadside assistance, pretty much access geico 24/7. sounds a little too good to be true sir. i'll believe that when pigs fly. ok, did she seriously just say that? geico. just a click away with our free mobile app. ♪ hooking up the country whelping business run ♪ ♪ trains! they haul everything, safely and on time. ♪ tracks! they connect the factories built along the lines. and that means jobs, lots of people, making lots and lots of things. let's get your business rolling now, everybody sing. ♪ norfolk southern what's your function? ♪ ♪ helping this big country move ahead as one ♪
i tthan probablycare moreanyone else.and we've had this farm for 30 years. we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living and that's how we can pass the land and water back to future generations. people should make up their own mind what's best for them. all i can say is it has worked well for us.
just moments before trayvon martin was shot he was on a cell phone with his friend, rachel jeantel. if you followed the trial, you surely remember her. she was expected to be the prosecution's star witness. but many believe she actually helped the defense when she became testy and combative during questioning. here's an example. >> are you finished? i'm sorry. >> yeah. >> i don't know for sure. i think we should plan on at least a couple of hours. >> what? excuse me. >> last night we saw a far different rachel jeantel, reflective, vulnerable. she could elaborate on things. here's part of her exclusive
interview with cnn's piers morgan. >> it's not that i didn't want to be there. it's a lot of stress. i was dealing with a lot of stress for 16 months i think. >> and you were grieving a friend. >> i was grieving. you're just shocked. you're like, wow. you can't believe -- you can't believe what just happened. you were just on -- a minute on the phone with the person. and he sound normal. and then a situation happened, and then i'm finding out two days later he dead. and then i had to be -- by a
friend telling me, oh, do you know he died at 7:17, and i had to look at my phone, and my phone say 7:16. and people got the nerve to tell me oh, why i ain't come to that funeral. i didn't put trayvon at that funeral. i didn't put trayvon in that casket. >> striking difference, right? we want to take a closer look with our guest, michael schoolnik. he's the editor in chief of globalgrind.com and a board member of the trayvon martin foundation. he joins us from new york. and in orlando mark nejame, a criminal defense attorney and cnn legal analyst. welcome to both of you. >> thank you. >> good morning. >> good morning. michael, i'd like to start with you because you know the martins, trayvon martin's parents. what do they think of rachel jeantel? >> the family's incredibly proud of rachel jeantel, incredibly proud of her courage, incredibly proud that she got on that stand, and for two days she took
just absolutely bombardment of questioning from don west. and held her ground and stuck to her same story over and over and over again. you know, after last night's interview with piers i think that rachel certainly reminded america that trayvon martin's a human being. he's not a symbol and he's certainly not a thug. >> yeah, but the juror that anderson cooper spoke to said she did not find rachel jeantel to be credible, she felt sorry for her. it wasn't effective testimony. >> because the juror has never met anyone like rachel jeantel. and that's a problem with our country and the race relations we have in our country. and piers morgan asking rachel last night, tell us about the world that you live in. these are american children. they don't live in a different world. they don't live in a different nation. the fact that we have two different americas where rachel jeantel and a juror b37 have never met each other is an issue. and we have to address that. >> so mark, is it a problem for our country or was it a problem that the state had? >> oh, i think it's both. i think it was just very articulately stated.
we do have a major cultural divide. you know, i'm hurt on a lot of levels. i'm hurt when i hear people attacking rachel jeantel because they don't understand the world from which she comes. and i'm hurt when people attack juror b37 because they don't understand the world from which she comes. we are one country, but for us to suggest that we are all one and we all know each other is simply an untrue statement. we have very, very many different pockets of society within our overall society, and one does not know the other. we are simply strangers to each other. so rather than pointing fingers and blaming and showing more prejudice to each other, we need to identify the fact that we have a lot to learn, and although we've come far we have a heck of a long ways still to go. >> so mark, do trayvon martin's parents do you think when they look at the jury makeup and they look at the decision that jury came to, do they say why didn't we have an african-american on the jury? why did we have six white women?
>> and that's what we were saying from the beginning. you know, sometimes i've been criticized by some who don't understand that a legal opinion is very different than a personal, a social, or a philosophical opinion. when you look at the composition of seminole count yib, it's 11% african-american. and when you look at sanford, it's 30% african-american. so when you subtract sanford from the overall seminole county, you have, you know, a very, very small minority, specifically african-american representation within seminole county. so when in fact you condense that down to a jury, the odds of getting an african-american on the jury are very slim when you're in seminole county. >> although if i remember correctly one of the prosecutors struck a black -- a potential black juror from the jury. >> yeah, he was also -- i was going to say he was also a fox news watcher. so that was, you know, problematic for the prosecution. >> yeah, you can't -- i'm sorry.
you can't just strike or add people because they're black or white. obviously, you know, we hope we get to the place in life where we look at more than just somebody's color and we understand that an african-american or a white or a hispanic or an asian could have different thoughts and feelings and opinions than everybody else within that particular group. whites too. i don't know if i mentioned. but the reality of it is that we have a situation where we say a jury of our peers, but as we become more and more in some ways separated in society between the haves and the have nots, are we really anymore getting a jury of our peers? >> and michael, i want to ask you this last question because i know you were at the cnn center and you ran into the juror that anderson cooper spoke to and you also ran into rachel jeantel. so share what you gleaned from them. >> well, i'm certainly surprised. and i don't want to criticize her because everyone has the
right to put food on their table. but i'm certainly surprised at the timing of juror b37 to announce she's doing a book and then to go on television and then to not do a book. i think it's a little bit in poor taste in terms of the timing of this. rachel jeantel last night, certainly i had a conversation with her. she's an incredibly beautiful young woman. and this idea that she's uneducated, therefore she cannot be truthful is just an awful comparison. the fact she doesn't have the educational background some of us may have does not mean she wasn't truthful on the stand. that woman told the absolute truth of what she knew. and last night we saw certainly a different side of her but the same rachel jeantel that was on that stand, which is 100% truthful. >> all right. michael schokolnik, mark nejame thank you so much for sharing your insight. i appreciate it. coming up, a shot byshot testimony. the squeamish details behind 17 of the 19 people former mob boss james "whitey" bulger reportedly killed. we'll have the latest from that trial, next. ♪ norfolk southern what's your function? ♪
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george zimmerman had a right to defend himself. that key statement from a zimmerman juror helps us understand why the jury found george zimmerman not guilty. >> because of the heat of the moment and the stand your ground. he had a right to defend himself. if he felt threatened, that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right. >> now, keep in mind zimmerman's attorneys never used the stand your ground defense at trial. but if there is a civil case brought against zimmerman, florida's controversial stand your ground law could play a huge role. joining me now are ken blackwell and jeff johnson. ken is a former ohio secretary of state. and he's a member of the national rifle association. jeff is an activist and social commentator and the host of "the
intersection." welcome to both of you. >> thank you. >> good to be with you. >> thanks for being with us. we appreciate it. jeff, i want to start with you. the jury -- the juror, you heard her, she says she believed -- well, actually, maybe you didn't hear this part of her interview. but she said she believed trayvon martin threw the first punch and it was zimmerman's voice on that 911 tape and she's got a right to defend himself. as you heard, she specifically mentioned stand your ground. she thinks jurors had no choice but to rule zimmerman not guilty. do you agree? >> well, i think ruling them -- ruling zimmerman guilty or not guilty based on the facts that were presented by the defense and the prosecution is different than whether i think stand your ground is the kind of law that needs to be in place. i think that the prosecution just didn't do the job they needed to do of painting trayvon martin as the victim, what happened that night, so on and so forth. i think the fact that this juror felt that because of stand your ground george zimmerman had a
right to defend himself is really the problem with this law, and we've seen it not just in florida but across the country. >> so ken, is jeff right? >> well, no -- look, i think jeff is right by saying look, the trayvon martin case was a case in and of itself. it has nothing to do with the natural right of folks to protect their personhood, their lives, and their space. stand your ground is a logical extension of the castle doctrine, which basically says people have a right to self-defense and protection. our streets are ever more violent. neighborhoods in some parts -- cities of our nation are no man's land. and people have a right to defend themselves. >> yeah, but as a member of the nra you're a supporter of responsible gun ownership, right? that same juror said zimmerman was guilty of not using good
judgment that february night. so doesn't judgment matter in these types of cases? >> absolutely. i'm for gun safety. i'm for the exercise of good judgment. and i'm for the right to bear arms and self-protection. there's nothing -- >> do you believe george zimmerman was defending himself responsibly that night? >> look, i think that when he shot trayvon he was defending himself. and i think the jury decided that that was the case. do i think he should have -- >> carol. >> excuse me. did i think that he should have heeded the advice of the police officer who had him on the phone who said stand down? yes. i think he of this stood down. >> jeff, go ahead. >> no, no, absolutely. and ken and i know each other. we have a good relationship. i think, ken, you know that the nra has supported with alec these stand your ground laws in over 30 states.
we know that in the state of florida in 2005 when they passed the law it was unanimous in the senate and 94-20 in the house, which said that this didn't just squeak by. but there's been triple the number of homicides in florida since the law passed. and if you look at the texas a&m study, in all of the states combined where stand your ground laws have happened, there's been an 8% increase in justifiable homicides. which translates to 600 homicides a year. whether we're talking about suburban america or whether we're talking about urban america, i don't want to see in chicago, in cleveland, or the city that's behind you, cincinnati, us seeing the young men that are already in war zones -- here's another justification for you to shoot somebody. this deal with reasonable policy that protects law-abiding citizens, that gives them the right to protect themselves, but what we're doing is we are taking a law and allowing people who are racist, people who have isms, people who have issues to
use those isms and issues in the process of determining are they actually in danger, and that is the problem with this law. >> and i want ken to respond to that because george zimmerman certainly knew about stand your ground. he was carrying a gun that night. and possibly had used -- he used poor judgmet. so how, ken, when you have these kind of laws in place can you stop the next tragedy, can you stop the next situation like trayvon martin and george zimmerman in. >> carol, let me just answer the question by saying there are devastating losses of life on the streets of chicago. it has nothing -- >> well, let's just talk about what happened in sanford, florida. >> ma'am -- look, no. you're saying stand your ground laws across the country. i am telling you that perhaps if you didn't have stand your ground laws the homicides would be much more than they are now. the fact is that we need to put
criminals who use guns in jail and we need to leave law-abiding citizens alone. >> all right. >> we have a fundamental right to protect ourselves. i've been a mayor of a major city -- >> that's not the case. >> -- and i've been an undersecretary of hud, and i've been through public housing communities all across this country. and i'll tell you right now. just as the deacons of defense said that they would protect themselves and their homes during the great civil rights movement, that's what average american citizens are saying, we have a right to protect ourselves. >> well, in fairness of course, there's the opposite opinion. and jeff, i'm sure you know it because you talked to people in those housing projects. >> absolutely. >> and they don't really like a lot of armed people around. >> carol, that -- >> i'm sorry, we've got to go. >> that's just not -- that's not the case. >> jeff johnson, ken blackwell. >> just look at the numbers. >> we'll be back after a break.
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just moments ago the reverend al sharpton announced a plan for action in support of trayvon martin. using the symbolic backdrop of the u.s. department of justice, sharpton's group the national action network is planning a series of justice for trayvon rallies and prayer vigils to be held saturday in front of federal buildings across the country. >> we are going to fight. on saturday night with the verdict we lost the battle, but the war is not over. and we intend to fight. let me say before we open up
that we urge all that participate with us to do so non-violently and peacefully. >> some 100 cities are expected to host those rallies. thanks for joining me today piem carol costello. "cnn newsroom" continues after a break. [ male announcer ] eligible for medicare? that's a good thing, but it doesn't cover everything. only about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. so consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they help save you up to thousands in out-of-pocket costs. call today to request a free decision guide. with these types of plans, you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients... plus, there are no networks, and you'll never need a referral
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hello, everyone. i'm michaela pereira. i'm in for ashleigh banfield this week. a couple of quick headlines to get you started this hour. first the search of a north korean cargo ship suspected of carrying drugs turned up something far more alarming. panamanian officials seized the ship that you see here as it approached the panama canal from cuba, discovered hidden behind, get this, a large container of brown sugar, guess what they found. undeclared weapons including apparent missile parts. we're going to have more details for you coming up later in the program. one of mexico's most feared drig lords is in custody. this man mexican authorities captured him, miguel angel trevino morales early monday in a pickup truck near the u.s. border. he was known as z-40, head of the ultra violent mic