tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN July 16, 2013 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
i'm isha sesay. first, breaking news from four other jurors who found zimmerman not guilty. they are speaking out tonight, releasing a joint statement. this is what they said. we, the undersigned jurors, understand there is a great deal of interest in this case. we ask you to remember that we are not public officials, and we did not invite this type of attention into our lives. we also wish to point out that the opinions of juror b-37 were
her own and not represented of the jurors listed below. serving on this jury has been an emotional and physically draping experience for each of us. in the end, we did what the law required us to do. we ask the media to respect our privacy and give us time to process what we have been through. again, four of the six zimmerman jurors releasing that statement tonight. here's part two of anderson's exclusive interview with juror b-37. >> good evening, everyone. there's more, a lot more. more exclusive insight into how a six-woman jury in florida reached a not guilty verdict in the killing of trayvon martin. part two of my interview with juror b-37. she never served on a jury before and says she never wants to again. she also has plenty to say about
the instructions that they were given. today in orlando, the attorney general eric holder spoke out against these stand your ground laws. >> by allowing and perhaps encouraging violent situations to escalate in public, such laws undermine public safety. it is our collective obligation. we must stand our ground to ensure -- [ applause ] ♪ we must stand our ground to ensure that our laws reduce violence and take a hard look at laws that contribute to more violence than they prevent.
>> again, for all the sympathy that the juror appears to show for george zimmerman, she says the judge's instructions tied their hands. that's not all we said yesterday. we spoke for nearly an hour. we had planned to only meet her but not conduct an interview. that changed late in the day when she said she would agree to talk on the record. we did the interview just minutes before airtime last night, and we spoke for nearly an hour. too much to fit into the program last night. so tonight, part two. did you cry in that jury room? >> i cried after the verdict. i didn't cry when they when they were reading the verdict in the jury room, because we were crying before we went in. >> what do you mean you were crying before you were? >> we were in a separate room when the foreman handed the bailiff our verdict and we were crying back there before we went into the jury room.
so they gave us about 20 minutes to try and get everything together. >> what do you think you were crying about? >> the pressure. the pressure of all of it, and everything just kind of came to a head. because i kind of tried to keep everything out, emotionally out during the whole process. and then it just flooded in after it was done. >> but you want people to know the reason you're speaking, you want people to know how seriously you took this? >> i do. i don't want people to think that we didn't think about it, and we didn't care about trayvon martin. because we did. we were very sad that it happened to him. >> and you want his family to know that, as well? >> i do. and i feel bad that we can't give them the verdict that they wanted. but legally we could not do that. >> do you think trayvon martin
played a role in his own death? that this wasn't just something that happened to him, that -- >> i believe he played a huge role in his death. he could have -- when george confronted him and he could have walked away and gone home. he didn't have to do whatever he did and come back and be in a fight. >> and the other jurors felt that, as well? >> they did. i mean, as far as my perspective of it, they did. >> so you think based on the testimony you heard, you believe that trayvon martin was the aggressor? >> i think the roles changed. i think george got in a little bit too deep, which he shouldn't have been there. but trayvon decided that he wasn't going to let him scare him and get the one over up on him or something, and i think trayvon got mad and attacked
him. >> you called george zimmerman george. do you feel like you know him? >> i do. i feel like i know everybody. >> you call trayvon trayvon, as well. >> i did. trayvon wasn't as well known by us because there wasn't much said about him. all we heard about trayvon was the phone call that he had, and the evidence they had found on him. we basically had no information, what kind of a boy trayvon was, what he did. we knew where he went to school, and that was pretty much about it, and he lived in miami. >> what would you say to trayvon martin's parents, to tracy and sabrina. >> i would say i'm terribly sorry for my loss. it's a tragedy. that's pretty much all i can say, because i didn't know him, but i felt their pain because of his death.
>> what do you hope for, for george zimmerman now? >> i hope he gets some peace, because i'm sure he's going to be in the media for months at a time. i hope his family can live a normal life after a while. i don't know how he's ever going to do that. but i hope he can. he'll never forget, but i hope he can. >> before we hear more, i want to bring in our panel, paul henderson, mark geragos, jeffrey toobin and danny c efrgs vallos. she says she didn't get a sense of who trayvon martin was. do you think that could have made a difference? >> it might have, but probably not. you no, trials are not really about the defendant, and i don't know -- >> she clearly not a sense of who she believed george
zimmerman was. >> absolutely. her identification with zimmerman is very striking and somewhat unusual. the degree to which she feels sympathy, even almost an affection for zimmerman is striking. trials are about defendants, and his -- zimmerman's intent, zimmerman's back ground, zimmerman's intent, that's what the case was about. and trayvon martin, there really was not much of an opportunity to present a human face on him, or was there or should there have been? i don't know. >> if you were the prosecutor in this case, and you had not been used to putting away young black men for the last 20, 30 years, you might have painted a picture where they would resonate with trayvon as opposed to zimmerman. what was masterful by the defense is, the defense made this about george zimmerman. they made those jurors want to help george, and they -- i
thought that one witness, besides the detective, the one witness who talked about the black males trying to get into her house, that resonated with this jury, and that plays into the archetype of, i hate to say it, the kind of racial archetype of black males as predators. >> something to think about in this case, the prosecution explicitly decided to make george zimmerman's life in the months leading up to this an issue. when they did that, i think the defense exploited that and were able to human ize george zimmerman. part two, the defense's own witnesses were brilliant, because they served multiple purposes. you might have a guy that came in and testified i'm a medic, i know what screaming is like. a combat medic in vietnam is the kind of guy that hangs out with george zimmerman. they used these witnesses just sublimely. >> paul, do you think it would
been possible to present evidence who trayvon martin was or would that have opened it up about bringing in tweets and things about trayvon martin's past? >> it depends on how they used it. but the defense did a masterful job of introducing those things that talked about george zimmerman being a good friend, and a nice guy, and the best friend that anyone could have. and we didn't hear testimony like that, or comments like that from the witnesses that were put on by the prosecution. but it's those little nuggets that i think could have painted a better picture about trayvon, because you heard them saying that they didn't know anything about him. they didn't know what kind of kid he was other than what school he went to. and i don't know that it would have made a difference. but i would have tried to put that information in there with the witnesses that i had. >> the most competent prosecutors would have. most competent prosecutors would not have put on an african-american male professor who is going to say wonderful
things about him so they could get in the tidbit that he had learned about stand your ground and then get desiccated on cross-examination by saying he's a wonderful guy. >> hi, georgy. >> i read the study and they looked at trials in florida from 2000 to 2010, and with all-white juries, when there was a black defendant, they convicted that black defendant 16% times more than if it was a white defendant. and if they had -- the reverse was if they had one african-american juror, that inequality in sentencing between the black and white defendant went down to a negligible difference. >> right, because it's no longer the elephant in the room. that's why it's so important in jury selection that the prosecutors can't and defense now what we call reverse batson,
can't strike people for class. that is the most important part of the trial. >> you said from the very beginning this case was over in jury selection. i tell you one thing that's just odd is the six-person jury. that's unusual. it's constitutional and some states have it and florida is one. but if this had been 12 people -- >> the chances of having an african-american on the jury -- >> it would have been much higher. this county is not heavily african-american, but there is a substantial african-american presence, and i just -- i tnk the six-person jury hurt the prosecution here. >> it's important for a lot of viewers to understand, i've been hearing about a jury of his peers. you don't have any constitutional guaranty to the final jury being one of your peers. all that requires is that the jury pool be culled from the reasonable cross section of the
community. your ultimate jury could be just like what we saw, six females. >> it's interesting, paul, you hear juror b-37 say she believes trayvon martin played a role in his own death. she almost viewed them equally in this. >> she's very judgmental. she said, when confronted by zimmerman, he could have done something and we wouldn't be here, which raises the whole issue of what about hisself defense right? what if he used the only thing he had, which was his fist and he ended up getting shot when he was confronted by this man with no authority and no representation of being a police officer. i fund it's interesting that she's completely judgmental about trayvon martin and says he was probably angry. we don't have any of that information. she's filled in the gaps and
adopting the defense's perspective. >> but that's the defense. >> she didn't make it up. she didn't invent this. she accepted what the defense argued, which was trayvon threw the first punch, he was on top. i don't think you can condemn her for making up some scenario just out of bias or something else. she looked at the evidence. >> i agree with that. >> but nothing else got presented to her. >> but you know, the problem is, remember, paul, you know this, we are talking to jurors after they reach a verdict. they go into that -- they retrench and they're going to say whatever they need to say. this is why talking to jurors afterwards, it's great when you win and drives you insane when you lose. >> we have to take a break. a lot more you haven't heard yet. let us know what you think. next, juror b-37 answers two key questions, did she want george zimmerman to take the stand and
this. >> when you lay your head tonight on the pillow, in your heart, and in your head, you are 100% convinced that george zimmerman, in taking out his gun and pulling the trigger, did nothing wrong? people together.inging today, we'd like people to come together on something that concerns all of us. obesity. and as the nation's leading beverage company, we can play an important role. that includes continually providing more options. giving people easy ways to help make informed choices. and offering portion controlled versions of our most popular drinks. it also means working with our industry to voluntarily change what's offered in schools. but beating obesity will take continued action by all of us, based on one simple common sense fact... and if you eat and drink more calories than you burn off, you'll gain weight. that goes for coca-cola,
and everything else with calories. finding a solution will take all of us. but at coca-cola, we know when people come together, good things happen. to learn more, visit coke.com/comingtogether the beach on your tv is much closer than it appears. seize the summer with up to 50% off hotels at travelocity.
more now of our "360" interview with juror b-37. she said that trayvon martin played in her words, a huge role in his own death. now her thoughts on the elements that, in her mind, added up to a not guilty verdict, and what makes her so certain. george zimmerman did not testify, but his testimony essentially was brought into the trial through those videotapes, a number of videotapes that he walked police through a re-enactment to what happened. how important were those tapes to you? >> i don't really know. watching the tapes, there's always something in the back saying, is it right? is it consistent? but with all the evidence of the phone calls and all the witnesses that he saw, i think george was pretty consistent and told the truth basically. i'm sure there were some
fabrications, enhancements. but i think pretty much it happened the way george said it happened. >> would you like to have heard zimmerman testify? would you have liked to see him on the stand so he could be cross examined? >> i don't think it would have done any different. i don't think he -- i think he would have told the story the same exact way. >> so you don't think him being on the stand being cross examined would have made any difference? >> i don't think it would have, i really don't. >> do you think the state overcharged for second degree murder? do you think if they had started off, opening statements saying manslaughter, it might have made a difference in terms of the end result? >> it wouldn't have difference if they gave us the same paperwork they gave us. they gave us the law and we went by the law. if they had given us
manslaughter and everything that was attached to it, it would have came out the same way. >> you hope you never serve on a jury again? >> i told them again. they said is there anything anybody wants to add to this? i said can i get out of jury duty for the rest of my life? she said you can for a year. i think i should get out of jury duty for the rest of my life. >> can you tell me about that last day in the jury room dli deliberating. did you know you were close? >> we were knew we were close five hours before we got to where we were, because we were slowly making progress the entire time. we didn't come to a stumbling block. we were just reading and reading and reading and knew we were progressing. >> did the jurors, did you all get along well? was there conflict? was there -- how did the
deliberation process, how was being together this long? >> it was tough. we all pretty much get along. it's hard sometimes to let other people talk, you know, at one time and have somebody else talk instead of adding your comments to whatever they were saying, trying to help figure out what we were trying to figure out. at times, i thought we might have a hung jury because one of them said they were going to leave and we convinced them, no, you can't do this. you've been in this too long to walk out now. >> they were going to leave for personal reasons, family reasons? >> uh-huh. >> when you lay your head tonight on the pillow, in your heart, and in your head, you are 100% convinced that george zimmerman, in taking out his gun and pulling the trigger, did nothing wrong?
>> i'm 101% that he was -- that he should have done what he did except for the things that he did before. >> you mean he shouldn't have gotten out of the car, he shouldn't have pursued trayvon martin, but in the final analysis, in the final struggle. >> when the end came to the end, he was justified shooting trayvon martin. >> i'm back with my panel. paul, what stands out as you listen to this juror? >> the fact that she starts off with saying that testimony from the actual defendant would not have made a difference, and i've been doing this a long time. i don't think i've ever heard a juror say that before. but they were so convinced by the presentation that's what she believed and the fact that she d tied it to the instructions saying if those same instructions were given, there's
no issue about overcharging and no issue about child endangerment. to me, what that tells me is i think the lawyers, especially from the prosecution, should have done a better job and concentrated on those instructions more to make them more clear. it's very clear that she didn't understand or she didn't like, it's clear they rejected the perspective from the prosecution. >> the key strategic decision that the prosecution made is underlined by her testimony, which is they decided to introduce all those tapes, of his police interviews, interviews with fox news. they put his story in front of the jury. their theory was, they were so contradictory, it would show he was a liar. i never bought that to start with. but i think the fact that she sort of developed this affection for zimmerman through these tapes underlined what a bad
decision that was. >> it was not only a bad decision to do it, they knew, because they had pretrial depositions that their lead investigator was going to say he didn't think those differences were material. >> i was told that in the pretrial depositions, he was not quite as favorable to the defense. he didn't speak about the defendant in such glowing terms. >> mark o'mara took a gamble. >> he did say in the pretrial depositions there were no material inconsistencies. and he also, and to paul's point, they never had to introduce any of those things. that's what we've said here. all of that -- that was a defense lawyer's dream. i fight in every case to get my client's statement in and it's self-serving hearsay. you can't get it in. the prosecution can, because they're the adverse party. at every step of the way, and paul also says they should have concentrated on the law.
remember the argument i had with sunny about the closing arguments, when he got up there, mcdreamy or mcloser, whatever his name was. i said that was an abortion in terms of an argument. he didn't talk about the law. he was pounding the desk. remember they said they were back there struggling with the law. jurors, emotionally go so far with jurors. you have to explain the law to them. as she said, and one of the things you tell jurors, there is no guidebook. having been a lawyer, i'm going to show you what you have to do. and you lead them through the law. they didn't get anywhere near that. >> if you go back to mark o'mara's final summation, the thing that just struck me was his conversational tone, and he spoke almost as if he was one of the jurors, as if you could picture him in the jury room as the seventh juror walking through the decision making process. when that door closed and started to deliberate, they
could still hear that conversational tone as he just casually walks through each juror. there's no question that he structured his closing that way. >> the question is why, which is why closing arguments are not to convince people, that's the biggest misnomer. a closing argument is so that you can give the jurors, who are already with you, the arguments, the road map and what they're going to go and do when they deliberate. at that point, their minds are already made up. >> do you agree with that, paul? >> yeah, i agree. he referenced there was an individual that almost walked out, that couldn't deliberate, that was done and to hear that, i know the prosecution is like, grasping their heads feeling like we could have had a mistrial if we could have explained to that one juror how she could have just held out, we might have been in a different place. >> prior to the interview, the
juror told me some of the details about why that one juror wanted to leave, and it was not related to the trial but child care issues. that was the understanding i was given before the interview began. >> you never know. the fact that she said it was split to begin with is exactly -- paul has to be as a prosecutor thinking i cannot believe what these guys did. they took this case, and i will say it again, i think they threw it. >> that's ridiculous. >> how else could they be so lame? >> up next, more of the interview with juror b-37. she said they were split when they first began deliberated. next, you'll hear how they got from that initial vote to acquittal. >> can you talk about the process of the other jurors changing their minds? [ whirring] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases.
[ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪ can help you do what you do... even better. we know it's your videoconference of the day. hi! hi, buddy! that's why the free wifi and hot breakfast are something to smile about. book a great getaway now and feel the hamptonality ♪ hooking up the country whelping business run ♪ ♪ build! we're investing big to keep our country in the lead. ♪ load! we keep moving to deliver what you need. and that means growth, lots of cargo going all around the globe. cars and parts, fuel and steel, peas and rice, hey that's nice! ♪ norfolk southern what's your function? ♪ ♪ helping this big country move ahead as one ♪ ♪ norfolk southern how's that function? ♪
[ male announcer ] wouldn't it be great if all devices had backup power? the chevrolet volt does. it's ingeniously designed to seamlessly switch from electricity to gas to extend your driving range. no wonder volt is america's best-selling plug-in. that's american ingenuity to find new roads. right now, get a 2013 chevrolet volt for around $269 per month.
more of my intention view clear now more with my interview of juror b-37. do you have any doubt that george zimmerman feared for his life? tz i have no doubt that george feared for his life in the situation he was in at the time. >> so when the prosecution in their closing argument is holding up the skittles and holding up the can of iced tea and saying, this is what trayvon martin was armed with, just a kid who had skittles and iced tea, you felt george zimmerm zimmerman -- did you find that compelling at all or did you mind marks o'mara with the
concrete block compelling? >> mark what the concrete block definitely. but with the skittles and to compare the two, you can be armed with anything. you can bash anybody's head against a tree or a rock or the concrete. >> so you believe trayvon martin was slamming george zimmerman's head. >> i think he was probably trying to slam it. i don't know how hard george's head hit on the concrete. it did enough to get bruising, swelling. i think it was definitely enough to make you fear when you're in that situation. >> the photos of george zimmerman, the photos of his injuries, to you, were those something you also looked at in the jury room? >> we did, we did. we did all that that kind of evidence first and listened to
the tapes afterwards. >> that was important to you because that also made you believe george zimmerman was legitimate in fearing for his life? >> i believed it. because of his injuries. >> can you talk about the process of the other jurors changing their minds? you talked about the first juror went from second degree murder to manslaughter, then you put out the question to the judge for the manslaughter, and it was because of the jury's reading of the law that everybody finally decided manslaughter doesn't hold? >> that's exactly why. >> was there any holdout? >> there was a holdout. and probably -- well, we had another vote and then everybody voted to put it in a little tin, we had a little tin, folded our papers and she was the last one to vote.
and it took probably another 30 minutes for her to decide that she could not find anything else to hold george on, because you want to find him guilty of something. she wanted to find him guilty of something but couldn't because of the way the law was written. he wasn't responsible for things he had done leading up to that point. >> did you also want to find him guilty of something? >> i wanted to find him guilty of not using his senses, but you can't fault anybody -- i mean, you can't charge anybody for not being, i guess, i don't know, you can't fault him -- you can't charge him with anything, because he didn't do anything unlawful. >> you're saying he overreacted and made bad choices but it wasn't against the law? >> exactly. that's exactly what happened.
>> you're saying maybe it wasn't right getting out of that car, but it wasn't against the law? >> exactly. he started the ball rolling. he could have avoided the situation by staying in the car, but he wanted to do good. i think he had good in his heart. he just went overboard. >> good in his heart, he just went overboard. i'm joined once again by our panel. paul, it is so interesting how this juror, and i assume the other jurors as well felt they knew what was in george zimmerman's heart. >> i agree. there is a complete adoption of the zimmerman presentation from his defense team. again, she goes back to the jury instructions and says they pored over it, trying to finding, which to me raises the flag,
it's an onus on the prosecution, that the road map was not given to them so they could find a pathway to find accountability. i know the prosecution is listening saying they were poring through the papers to find some kind of accountability with the rules they were given and couldn't find any, that to me is a big loss in your presentation that you did not give them those tools and make it clear to them, this is how you find accountability with the charges that are being given to you in this room. and that's what really stands out to me, that she keeps saying again and again and again. >> was there a way to find accountability given the laws? >> i don't know. i think it was bad judgment to get out of the car but you can't convict somebody of that. >> sure. mark has been very critical of the prosecutors, and i think it was a mistake to introduce the videos of the interviews. but the evidence is what the evidence is. and i don't think there was some secret witness out there that
they should have called. there's one issue in this case, what was zimmerman's intent? this was not a who done it. everybody knows who shot who, when the crime took place. the issue was, what was he thinking and intending when he did it? when you only have one survivor of the encounter, the personal who is telling the story has a tremendous advantage. >> if she correct and the jury correct that it didn't matter that he was the one to get out of the car, it didn't matter what happened up until they were in a struggle, and that's all that mattered once the struggle began, what george zimmerman felt. >> absolutely. she the right about that. there is no crime, there is not even -- there's nothing unlawful about him getting out of the car. of course, in retrospect we wish hestayed in. that 911 call, he's outside for most of it. the dispatcher is saying is, what does he look like, so he's -- we all have focused on the dispatcher saying, we don't
need you to follow him. but the dispatcher is also asking questions about what's going on. >> which this juror did zero in on. >> this was not a -- i mean, her view of the evidence is not crazy. >> it's not only not crazy, it's completely defensible, based on what was presented. frankly, there's no other verdict based on what was presented. i know people -- that polarizes people, but the way this case was presented, the way this case was argued. >> but what could they have done differently? >> paul, do you want to jump in here? >> please let me. please let me jump in. >> paul, let's talk about some things. >> let me just say, there's a couple of things. the first thing that jumps out to me, there was a road map to have a different version of events. we raised that earlier. when the witness says that trayvon was saying get off, get
off, there you have it right there that the fight wasn't, according to the version that zimmerman gave them. i know this issue keeps coming up, but the race issue is really important. i feel like it was important and i feel like the defense used race. >> right. >> i feel like the prosecution needed to address race, even if that would have not changed the juror's find, the views and the audience and america would have felt like you raised the issue. >> wait, wait. paul, wouldn't you say when the prosecution, because i don't know about you, but i've never had two jurors on a batson motion receiptereseated. and then you end up with an all-white jury. so then you ask, am i going to go forward with the straight case or retool? >> you have to. >> you have to retool.
it's prosecutorial incompetence not to. to go forward with that jury is malpractice. >> the judge said that the prosecution could say profiling, but not racial profiling. i don't know what that means. >> the next part of our interview, we'll hear what juror b-37 has to say about whether race was a factor in that jury room. so you don't believe race played a role in this case? >> i don't think it did. i think if there was another person, spanish, white, asian, if they came in the same situation where trayvon was, i think george would have reacted the exact same way. and a great deal. great outdoo, grrrr ahhh let's leave the deals to hotels.com. perfect! yep, and no angry bears. up to 30% off. only at hotels.com. it's been that way since the day you met.
but your erectile dysfunction - it could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial.
every day we're working to and to keep our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger.
we've made major advancements in reducing the incidents of broken bones in seniors. we've received recognition for getting hypertension under control for over 80% of our members. we've made significant advances in asthma, immunization and maternity care. and j.d. power and associates ranked us highest in member satisfaction among health plans in california. we're focusing on the big things so you can enjoy the little things. kaiser permanente. thrive.
more now on my exclusive interview with juror b-37. a lot was made of the animation that was played showing what may have happened in the confrontation with trayvon martin. i got the juror's take on that the animation. the defense played that animation of what they believe happened. did you find that credible? >> i found it credible. i did. >> do you think that's what actually happened? because in that animation, trayvon martin throws the first punch. >> i think there were some other issues and stuff leading between that, like what exactly -- where
george went exactly and where trayvon went exactly, because nobody knows where the two of them came to, but they both met in the back. >> what did you think of the testimony of trayvon martin's mother and father, did you find them credible? >> i think they said anything a mother and a father would say. just like george zimmerman's mom and father. i think they're your kids. you want to believe that they're innocent, and that was their voice, because hearing that voice would make it credible that they were the victim, not the aggressor. >> so in a way, both sets of parents canceled each other out in your mind? >> they did, definitely. >> was that true for the other jurors, as well? they felt those testimonies canceled each other out? >> i can't speak for the other jurors, but with the feelings and eindications that they also the testimonies canceled each
other out. >> do you think any of the witnesses lied? >> i can't think of any of the witnesses that lied. i think some might have heard things that weren't there because of their perspective, the stress, like when somebody is stressed from hearing a gunshot. people react differently. so people -- you ask ten different people ten different things and get ten different answers. >> the prosecution didn't use the word racial profiling during the case, they used the word profiling. and that was something that was worked out between the judge and the lawyers when the jury wasn't in the room. >> right. >> do you feel that george zimmerman racially profiled trayvon martin? do you think race played a role in his decision, his view of trayvon martin has suspicious? >> i don't think he did. just circumstances caused george
to think that he might be a robber or trying to do something bad in the neighborhood, because of all that had gone on previously. there were unbelievable number of robberies in the neighborhood. >> there's talk the justice department perhaps filing civil rights violation charges against george zimmerman. do you think george zimmerman violated trayvon martin's civil rights? >> i don't think he did. i don't think he did at all. i don't think he profiled him as a racial thing. i think he profiled him just as somebody in the neighborhood that was suspicious. >> so when he said these "f"-ing punks, they always get away with it, he wasn't referencing race, he was referencing young people who had broken -- >> he was referencing frustration because of everything that had been happening in the neighborhood. i think he was down to the point where he wanted somebody to take -- you know, get blamed and get caught. so maybe some of this would stop.
>> and as you know, there have been demonstrations in a lot of cities in the last day or to. i don't know if you've seen some of the images of them. people holding up signs saying that african-american males are unsafe on the streets or that, you know, one columnist on my program last night said, who is african-american, said he had to have that conversation with his sons about what speed is it okay for them to walk, you know, too slow is suspicious, too fast is suspicious, as well. do you think any of that is -- do you understand where that comes from, or do you think race had nothing to do with this and this doesn't say anything about african-americans -- >> i don't think race had anything to do with this trial. just because he was black and george was spanish or port ruer ric rican, i don't think it had
anything to do. but people are looking for race to be part of this trial. >> back with my panel. i should point out, there have been a lot of attention that yesterday this woman and her husband had a book agent and were shopping around the idea of writing a book. today, she put out a statement staying they are not proceeding with that. she has no intent to proceed with trying to get a book deal. >> can i just say, every question you asked her, she answered with the defense version. every question, yes, i believed the cartoon. yes, i believed -- no, he was not profiling. >> cartoon? >> she liked that. i don't know if that's because she actually did feel that way, or once you vote not guilty, you have to -- >> you bought into it. it just underscores the importance of finding your advocate on each jury that will fight for you, because if it's 3-3. it's not 3-3 if three of them are wall flowers and three are
bombastic individuals. >> paul, you found that, as well? >> i found that, as well. i think it's interesting that she rejects the whole concept of race because my observation, watching the trial, i thought race being introduced and saw race when they talked about the neighbor that broke in, they talked about race. the introduction or the attempt to bring in the text messages that were false alluded to stereotypes that were negative. all of that had to do with race. >> thank you. another high profile defendant returned to the courtroom. jodi arias is back in the courtroom. also tonight, what killed the "glee" star? we'll be right back. you deserve more than justo flexibility and convenience. so here are a few reasons to choose university of phoenix.
our average class size is only 14 students. our financial tools help you make smart choices about how to pay for school. our faculty have, on average, over 16 years of field experience. we'll help you build a personal career plan. we build programs based on what employers are looking for. our football team is always undefeated. and leading companies are interested in our graduates. we'll even help you decorate your new office. ok. let's get to work. could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. yep, everybody knows that. well, did you know some owls aren't that wise? don't forget i'm having brunch with meghan tomorrow. who? meghan, my coworker. who? seriously? you've met her like three times. who? (sighs) geico. fifteen minutes could save you...well, you know. we replaced people with a machine.r,
what? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it? hello? hello?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello? ally bank. your money needs an ally. mhandle more than 165 billionl letters and packages a year. that's about 34 million pounds of mail every day. ever wonder what this costs you as a taxpayer? millions? tens of millions? hundreds of millions? not a single cent. the united states postal service doesn't run on your tax dollars. it's funded solely by stamps and postage. brought to you by the men and women of the american postal worker's union. ♪ hooking up the country whelping business run ♪
♪ trains! they haul everything, safely and on time. ♪ tracks! they connect the factories built along the lines. and that means jobs, lots of people, making lots and lots of things. let's get your business rolling now, everybody sing. ♪ norfolk southern what's your function? ♪ ♪ helping this big country move ahead as one ♪ ♪ norfolk southern how's that function? ♪
welcome back. another quick reminder, at 10:00 tonight, a special "ac 360" town hall, race and justice in america. what justice americans to african-americans and white americans. what parts tell their kids about whether the law is there to protect them or not. it's a compelling conversation. here's just a quick sample. >> i struggle with the idea that my boys have to be divested of innocence. that either i have to do it, the man who loves them.
or someone else will do it who does not love them. >> jeffrey, is this a conversation you've had? >> anderson, here's what's so sad about this. the very people that you're supposed to turn to when you're scared, those of us who raise boys, and i have my 15-year-old here, are telling them, when you deal with these folks, there's a likelihood they might kill you, right? that's a horrible thing. so when you're around them, the ones who have state -- the state has given them the authority to protect you. you have to worry because they'll probably kill you before you do anything else. >> jeffrey canada is a personal hero of mine. "race and justice in america," please don't miss it right here on cnn an hour from now. isha, welcome back.
>> thank you, anderson. the judge setting the stage for jodi arias' sentencing in september. previous jurors would not figure out if she would face life or death. and edward snowden would be allowed to leave moscow's airport and travel aboard. and the group of passengers on board the flight that crashed in san francisco are suing the airline along with boeing. flight 214 slammed into the runway, killing three people and injuring dozens of others. coroners in canada determined that cory monteith died of a mixture of heroin and alcohol. and anderson, a group of pail yen toll gist says t-rex was a hunter and not a
scavenger. i would say i would have to agree. >> that's cool. thank you very much. we'll be right back. that's me... i made you something. ♪ i made you something, too. ♪ see you next summer. ♪ [ male announcer ] get exceptional values on the highest quality cars at the summer of audi sales event. ♪ "that starts with one of the world's most advancedy," distribution systems," "and one of the most efficient trucking networks," "with safe, experienced drivers." "we work directly with manufacturers," "eliminating costly markups," "and buy directly from local farmers in every region of the country." "when you see our low prices, remember the wheels turning behind the scenes,
delivering for millions of americans, everyday. "dedication: that's the real walmart" when you do what i do, iyou think about risk.. i don't like the ups and downs of the market, but i can't just sit on my cash. i want to be prepared for the long haul. ishares minimum volatility etfs. investments designed for a smoother ride. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus, which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal.