tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN July 17, 2013 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
it's called a mosquito. "ac 360 starts now. it's called a mosquito. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com good evening everyone. we don't usually use the word stunning. she's calling on sllegislators change the law that she said tied her hands and her interview, her first and only was also her last. quote thank you for the opportunity to vent some of the anguish which has been in me since the trial began. for reasons of my own, i need to speak alone. she wrotes my prayers are with all those who have the influence and power to modify the laws that left me with no verdict option other than no guilty. she's referring to florida statutes on self-defense and
stand your ground which eric holder condemned. more on that shortly. juror b 37 clarifies reports planning to write for the experience. as for the alleged book deal there isn't one at this time. there was an agreement to explore the concept of a book that discussed the impact of sequester and being compared to the perceptions of an attorney from outside the bubble. the relationship would have been occurring until the world during the weeks of my sequestration. she concludes with a prayer and pleads, my prayers are with trayvon's parents with their loss as they have always been. i wish for me and my family from being selected for this jury and return to a normal life. god bless. more on her saying the laws left her with no option. today we went back to take
another listen what she told us and she is eluding to the difficulties her and her fellow jurors getting past the letter of the law listen. >> the law became very confusing. >> yeah, tell me about that. >> it became very confusing. we had stuff thrown at us. we had the second-degree murder charge, the manslaughter charge, then we had self-defense, stand your ground, and i think there was one other one -- >> you sent a question to the judge about manslaughter -- >> yes and what could be applied to the manslaughter. we were looking at the self-defense. one of the girls said that -- asked if you can put all the leading things into that one moment where he feels it's a matter of life or death to shoot this boy or if it was just at the heat of passion at the that moment. >> so the -- that juror wanted
to know whether the things that had brought george zimmerman to that place -- >> exactly. >> not just in the minute or two before the shot actually went off -- >> exactly. >> but earlier that day, everyone prior crime? >> not prior crimes, just the -- the situation leading to it, all the step. as the ball got rolling -- >> from him getting -- spotting trayvon martin getting out of his vehicle -- >> exactly. >> whether that could play a role -- >> in determining the self-defense or not. >> uh-huh. >> after hours and hours and hours deliberating the law and reading it over and over and over again there is just no other place to go. >> because of the only -- the two options you had second degree murpd e or manslaughter, you felt neither applied. >> right. well because of the heat of the moment and the stand your ground. he had a right to defend himself. if he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away or have bodily harm, he had a
right. >> so even though it was he who got out of the car, followed trayvon martin, that didn't matter in the deliberations. what mattered is those final seconds, minutes when there was an altercation and in your mind the most important thing whether or not george zimmerman felt his life was in danger? >> that's how we read the law. that's how we got to the point of everybody being not guilty. >> so that was the belief of the jury is you had to zero in on the final minutes, slash seconds about the threat that george simm man believed he faced. >> that's exactly what had happened. >> so whether it was george zimmerman getting out of the vehicle, whether he was right to get out of the vehicle, whether he was a want to be cop, whether he was over eager, none of that in the final analysis mattered. what mattered was those seconds before the shot went off did george zimmerman fear for his life? >> exactly.
that's exactly what happened. george had a right to protect himself at that point. >> so you believe george zimmerman really felt his life was in danger? >> i do. i really do. >> digging deeper on what b 37 said about stand your ground. sunny hostin and jeffrey toobin and mark savalas. she said they need to work on the laws that left her with no verdict other than not guilty within the instluxs. does that mean if florida was not a stand your ground state, george zimmerman could have been found guilty? >> i don't know if it's a guarantee, but certainly the stand your ground law gives a definition of self-defense broader. it is an invitation to people to use deadly force legally in a way that it might not have been legally -- legal in the past. so, you know, i don't know for sure that it would have been a different result, but certainly, the range of a self-defense defense would have been smaller.
>> stand your ground was never brought up using those words in the trial and yet, in the instructions to the jury -- >> you have -- it was built in. >> the reason he didn't do -- my guess is the reason he didn't do the stand your ground hearing before hand is that would have been collateral and bound him for civil lighty. so he's got the option now to do stand your ground in a civil lawsuit but this -- my first reaction to this interview. this is exactly the reason that you want see kweker she's going backwards. she's sliding back. that to me is, you know, i think she should just stand her ground and say i made my decision and that's it. isn't her husband a lawyer? looks like something her husband crafted. >> that's the thing about stand your ground. everyone thought because they didn't have that initial immunity hearing stand your ground wasn't an issue.
it's always an issue in florida and when they read the jury instructions to the jury and the judge charged the jury she specifically said george zimmerman had a right to stand his ground if he felt that he was in danger of imminent death or great body harm . in many other states that instruction doesn't given. they have a duty to retreat and diffuse the situation. >> danny, we have a digital dashboard question that relates to this. it says why did mr. martin not have the right to stand his ground? do both parties have the right? >> legally, we never reached the question because trayvon is no longer with us. it's not an issue. he's not prosecuted but one could ever the argument we would need to change the facts. we would need to change the facts and say george zimmerman is deceased and if he was, is it possible? maybe. if the facts were different, if they weren't what they are as we know them. the thing about stand your ground is typically it's viewed as immunity. it's immunity hearing before the
actual trial. what most people don't know. >> go to trial -- >> which means -- right, it's taken away from the jury's hands. had he proceeded to the hearing, he would not have waved the right at trial to argue it. it gets folded into the jury instructions. what is unusual about stand your ground here is the jury doesn't have to show work like high school. they come back with not guilty. so the way we reach how they analyze stand your ground versus self-defense is through interviews like this and that's spotty at best because we're seeing these jurors not getting along, they are not seeing eye to eye. >> is there was this "tampa bay times" investigation and found 70% of those who invoke stand your ground go free and it's use in cases that legislators never intended it to be used in. >> or did they? we can't divorce this from the political context. stand your ground is part of a group of laws that when republicans took over in lots of states after 2010 they passed.
it is part of a general belief that gun rights should be expandedndheecd amendment has a broad definition and it's an example how vichb individuals have a right to use guns to defend themselves. e don't know what legislators. maybe they don't like the implications but it was clear when it was passed in florida and elsewhere that it was about expanding the right to use guns at home. >> it does seem, again, this "tampa bay times" investigation found stand your ground, the defendants defendant's stand your ground is more likely to prevail if they are black. >> when there is legislation about stand your ground, law enforcement officials testified against stand your ground. they are not in support and feel it takes the power away from the police and puts the power in the hands of the everyday citizen. >> law enforcement is always pro-gun control, too. >> yes, yes, there is that tension there. >> and eric holder relocking and
the federal government relooking at stand your ground -- >> zero. the florida legislature which is very conservative, rick scott -- >> eric holder is not the poster child for the florida legislator. >> you're talking about eric holder, one of the most disliked members of the obama administration by republican legislato legislators. it's just not going to happen. it's not going to change because of the politics. >> him coming out and doing that and saying that to the naacp, that enas you weres, i mean, talk about red meat. that ensures that it will never happen in florida. >> one thing i want to mention is if you remember the prosecution's closing rebuttal argument, john guy said didn't trayvon martin have the right to stand his ground? i think that's really been an issue. many people are saying why didn't trayvon martin have the right to stand his ground? >> in any homicide case you have the argument at least half of
the main witnesses is gone. they are no longer with us. so that's one of the main complaints of law enforcement. you don't have that person anymore although you can piece together usually defendant statements, if he's given them and use that as evidence against them but they do have a valid point, the main witness is gone. >> do you thing this encourages people to -- if they have a gun in a fight to pull it out and use it? >> i do. i think it takes the civility away from us and the humanity let me try to diffuse, run away, retreat. i think my life is in danger. let me do what most people do which is flee as opposed to fight. >> i agree what sunny is saying. the way we're ramping up the sentences for gun crimes, either you're going to be totally vin kated or as we're talking about this other case in florida with the woman who fired a warning shot, you're going away. >> right. >> it's a --
>> isn't it interesting, though, if you shoot a black kid or black guy you don't go away so much? >> that's not the statement -- >> yeah, yeah -- >> it is -- >> the risks go down. >> it's affecting the african american community -- >> whites -- of the reverse is very small. so that's something to consider, as well. we want to talk more about this coming up. danny mentioned this case of a woman who shot in the air and tried to use stand your ground. we'll talk about her coming up. we'll be right back. a lot more ahead. i missed a payment. aw, shoot. shoot! this is bad. no! we're good! this is your first time missing a payment. and you've got the it card, so we won't hike up your apr for paying late. that's great! it is great! thank you. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card with late payment forgiveness.
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with florida's stand your ground law. another case in florida involving a gun, a case that had much different ending. zimmerman used a gun to kill trayvon martin and found not guil guilty. in marissia alexander's case she shot a warning shot into a wall to scare her husband. the jury took less than 15 minutes to convict her and she's in prison for 20 years. gary tauchman got the only in prison interview with her. >> reporter: she walks down the jail hallway in handcuffs. marissia alexander is sentenceed to 20 years behind bars convicted of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. she said she was defending herself, standing her ground from a husband arrested before for abusing her. he was arrested for doing what to you? >> he choked me, pushed me forcefully into the tub. he pushed me so hard into the closet that i hit my head against the wall, and i kind of
passed out for a second. >> reporter: her husband received probation after that incident. months later alexander says she was in the bathroom at their home here in jacksonville, florida when her husband started pounding on the door. he was in a jealous rage over text messages. >> he managed to get the door open and strangled me and put his hands around my neck. >> reporter: she got away from her husband and made a fateful decision. she could have ran out the front door and escaped but she ran in the garage and did not have keys and the garage was stuck so she grabbed her gun and stayed in the garage. what did you think you would do with it? i. >> i thought i would protect myself. >> reporter: did you think you would have to shoot him? >> i did. he saw my weapon at my side and when he saw it he was even more upset and threatened to kill me. >> reporter: how is he going to kill you if you have the gun? >> i agree. i thought it was crazy, too.
>> reporter: why didn't you run out the door at that point? >> there was no other way to get out the door. he was right there -- >> reporter: what if you went around him? your life would be easier now. >> the law doesn't say you have to. >> reporter: she did what she thought was allowed by law. she believed her stood her ground and fired the gun into the wall. nobody was hurt but it was enough to scare her husband and he left the house with his two young children from a previous relationship. alexander was safe from her husband but not the law. she was arrested and stand your ground defense rejected and found guilty by a jury. her husband did agreed to do an camera interview but claimed not to saying going on camera would put his life in danger. however, later he said we would do an interview if he got paid, which cnn doesn't do but he's said quite a bit.
during a deposition with a prosecutor for the office of angela corey and a defense attorney for his wife he acknowledged hitting his wife in the past and said if my kids weren't there, i knew i probably would have tried to talk the gun from her and put my hand on her. marissia alexander's attorney asked what he meant and he responded probably hit her. i got five baby mamas and i put my hands on every last one of them except for one. >> i believe when he threatened to kill me, that's what he was going to do. that's exactly what he intended to do. had i not discharged my weapon at that point, i would not be here. >> reporter: later at a court hearing to determine whether marissia alexander should get immunity, rico gray changed sportry saying he lied repeatedly in the deposition to rep protect his wife and said i begged and pleaded for my life
when she had the gun. the jury deliberated for 12 minutes before convicting her. the jacksonville naacp wrote a letter to the judge saying marissia may have not received justice because of her race or getter. some african american newspapers said if she would have been white her stand your ground defense would have been accepted but alexander will not say if she agrees. >> i'm going to be honest with you, i'm uncomfortable answering that. >> reporter: herm main hope is n appellant court will hear it. she had a baby with rico gray. she only sees her in photographs. he's considered the victim and she's the criminal. >> this is my life i'm fighting for. this is my life and it's my life and it's not entertainment. it is my life. >> reporter: the 20-year sentence is a mandatory 20 years
meaning no chance of parole. gary tuchman, cnn, jacksonville florida. >> we're joined by her attorney and our panel. bruce, first of all, where does your client's case stand? does she have a good chance of appeal? >> it's on appeal now. we're in the first district of appeals in tallahassee. the briefs have been filed and we're waiting for the court to respond to us either with oral argument or with an opinion itself. probably sometime in the fall. >> mark -- >> one of the most interest things in this case if you read the appeal let briefs is not just stand your ground but the issue that drives me crazy is she was ordered not to speak about her testimony overnight with her lawyer. the judge actually insinuated themselves into the attorney client privilege, which i just think is frankly outrageous. this case shows exactly what we've been talking about for the last three weeks. angela corey's office prosecuted
this. i had virtually an identical sets in california, husband, wife, the gun went off, one shot, nobody hurt. my gal was very pretty blonde 40 something-year-old. she did not do one day in jail. and not a single day in jail. she was given straight probation and that was the end of that. this poor woman in florida is now doing 20 years and -- but for the pro bono work and to some degree because of what happened in the notoriety surrounding zimmerman, she may actually stand a case to get that case reversed. >> bruce, do you think that will help? >> i don't think the notoriety is a factor quite candidly. we're trying to focus this case on the facts of what happened in the courtroom in jacksonville and we want to separate ourselves from the to lit kill things and social things because
on the merits, as mark said, this case should be reversed. >> angela carry worey was asked that. i want to play what she had to say. >> i heard the other day i think someone from the naacp was trashing us for prosecuting her. she fired a shot through a wall on the other side of the wall were two young black boys younger than trayvon martin. they aren't victims? >> what do you ever of this case? >> no, they are not victims. they were not hit -- it's like surreal. >> she's made them a victim. >> she can pretend they are a victim. look, i love the american legal system. this is what i do for a living, but you watch a case like this and you just -- the only response is despairdespair, i d have any great insight. the idea this case could have been prosecuted successfully, sentenced the way it was --
>> what is the judge that didn't use -- i mean, you know there are ways to get around these mandatory minimums. judges can do that. they can strike it. they can -- they can say no. they can act as a 13th juror and you have to wonder who is the judge who said, you know, this is a great idea. this poor woman was getting the hell beat out of her and does the one thing she's supposed to do. mind you, this is not stand your ground off somewhere walking down the street. she's in her castle. she's in her home. she's in the garage, you know, which is if somebody burglarize that, they would say it first-degree burglary because it's a residential dwelling and she uses the gun to scar them off and they really -- and some judge thinks it's a good idea to say you can't talk to your lawyer about your testimony overnight? so i'm going to take away your sixth amendment rights -- >> bruce, why was it so important for your client to fire that warning shot into the wall? >> to save her life. this man was a serial woman
abuser. i mean, he's a classic person of -- of a person whose battered women his whole life and she knew his history. she knew what he was about, and she thought it was either she was going to get killed or she had to scar him away, and that's what she did. >> the interesting thing about these mandatory minimums, they take the discretion away from the judge but you know who retain ps it? the d.a. you have to rely on the reasonableness of the da. a lot of them are reasonable d and -- >> she was offered -- she had a different attorney than bruce at the time on the first trial, but they were offered a plea agreement, three-year plea deal and turned it down. >> three years in prison for trying to save her life -- >> look at the larger picture. the larger picture is stand your ground law. she thought she had the right to stand her ground -- >> she's served three years --
>> people talk about stand your ground and maybe she had it in her mind at the time. this to me is even more reason why somebody should disbar or i'm peach or do whatever they need to with angela corey angela corey is a men necessary. >> i don't think that's fair. >> how do you not -- >> she's enforcing the law on the books. >> come on -- >> how could you defend her. >> prosecutors have that discretion. >> sure, that's the law. >> with all of the -- with the new auditions to the criminal code, the authority rests more and more in each prosecutor. sunny is right she's enforcing the law but because they have so much discretion, they couldn't enforce all the laws at the all the time -- >> she's better offshooting and hitting him frankly. she should have been better off actually aiming at him and hitting him because you wouldn't have the argument she's making that the bullet went through the wall -- >> that is the problem -- >> would that ever a difference if she actually hit him?
>> you know, we can speculate all over the place on this case and i understand that the social aspect of this, our bottom line is we have a woman in prison for 20 years. there are errors in her trial and we want to correct the imperfections and what went wrong. >> mark, you talked a lot about what went wrong is this an example -- >> this is a perfect example. bruce, i don't want to get in the way of this and affect your appeal and i know you're trying to be as politically as correct as you can. if this was a pretty white woman you wouldn't see 20 years, you wouldn't see it. what we've been talking about and saying, it just wouldn't happen. you're not going to have -- it may be a situation where somebody pulmpulls the trigger on somebody who beats their baby mamas and she doesn't hit anybody and she's wait. i would like to see that case. maybe i would take it pro bono. >> here is the bottom line,
whether we agree with you or disagree with you, this woman is in prison. >> i'm with you. i'm with you. she should not be in prison. i'm with you 1,000%. >> what i don't want are social issues to hijack her appeal. >> this is a difference between a lawyer trying to do his job for the case -- >> i'm not asking bruce that question -- >> he's -- >> on tv -- >> those of us from the outside are obligated to point out racial aspects, social aspects -- >> i'm being ju dish shows because i don't want to do anything that impacts his case. we'll continue to follow this. we appreciate all your time tonight. mark and jeff will stay with us. i want their take on how the sequestered jurors spent their time outside of court from out book steak house to bowling and movies and details we just learned. after george zimmerman's acquittal.
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their time when they were not in court. details that paint a picture what they were doing and how isolating it is to be sequest sequester sequestered. they spent 22 nights at a marriott and a suite where they ate together and socialized and worked out topgether, went to movies approved by the court and went bowling and shopping, got manicures, pedicures, watched fireworks on the 4th of july and went out to eat at an out back steak house and the families could visit on weekends. they went on a road trip write where they went to the ripleys believe it or not museum. i won't ask about that because i don't know if you've been there. it's rare to get a sequestered jury. >> it's rare. there aren't that many high profiled cases but expensive for
the county because of the hotels, over time for the court officers who have to be with them. it costs a fortune. >> how common is it for them to do all these other thing sns. >> very common. they go out of their way. i remember both during the peterson case when -- they were not sequestered during the trial but deliberations, which was well over a week and during o.j. one of my clients was the caterer and they could order what they want. they would take it into them and had outings -- >> right, they went to amusement parks, but that case was months. one of the things that was so interesting, also, we've seen the tension among the jurors. those sorts of arrangements breed tensions. you know, imagine being stuck with strangers for that long with only having very limited contact with the outside world -- >> a smaller group than normal. it only six people. >> it's only six people so it's hard to pair off and cliques
become different and you're forced to be there every day and a high-pressured situation. your not with your family. it's the least they deserve. the cost factor, i've always thought, that the media should pick that up because generally, the reason you're sequestered them is to keep them isolated from the media. so i always thought if the courts were smart, they would charge for the pool coverage or something like that -- >> i know what you're talking about. i see your lips moving. easy for you to say -- >> you know -- >> well, i don't take a to si s position, obviously. six people, which we learned from b 37, when they got into that jury room, they were evenly divided. three people wanted not guilty and three wanted some charge, two wanted manslaughter, one wanted second degree murder e. i'm interested how they change people's minds one way or the other. >> it's virtually in every case
accept maybe the marissia a alexand alexander. they are almost always divided initially. when you pick a jury, you're not. it's more jury deselection. you look at who will i get in there that has a strong enough way to drive the case? i call them drivers. there is goats and sheep as one of my clients said. >> you want somebody that takes charge. >> because there is other people that will follow along. that's how it usually happens. if you can pick that person who is going to be your advocate and as i said last night, you arm them in the closing argument with the arguments they will use with the others, that is generally how the case will unfold and that's one of the reasons you saw yesterday with -- and tonight to some degree b 37 adopting the defense's arguments, because that's what they do. they have listened to the same evidence but it is who can best articulate the arguments they have given or their side gave
them. >> there is nothing improper about jurors trying to influence each other or changing their minds. that's why they call it deliberation. you can have a system where everybody presses a button and majority vote. you know, the interaction -- >> how often is it that there is one holdout. at the end she said there is one person left that wanted a charge and essentially they sort of wore her down in her opinion. >> it's a lot. it's frequent. i see it a lot. i can think of a case in riverside county where i tried that case twice and it was a hung jury both times, and we were set to do it the third. it happens, i would suspect, i don't have any statistics on this, more often where you have a 12-person jury by the odds of it. any time you put more than five people in a room, you're going to get different opinions -- >> i only had one hung jury as a proos c prosecutor and the interesting thing to me, i could tell by
looking at the jury who it was and i was right. it's just there's body language. >> interesting. >> you get to know these people in this weird non-verbal way. >> interesting. jeffrey toobin, mark geragos. president obama has been silent. we'll look at the line he walks on issue and justice. la's known definitely for its traffic, congestion, for it's smog. but there are a lot of people that do ride the bus. and now that the busses are running on natural gas, they don't throw out as much pollution to the earth. so i feel good. i feel like i'm doing my part to help out the environment.
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late word out of washington on the zimmerman verdict. a justice department official saying tom perez and other staffers held a conference call on monday with national and florida civil rights leaders describing as a listening session. president obama in the meantime is conspicuously quiet letting his attorney general do the talking. 360's randi kaye explains the reasons perhaps. >> reporter: when trayvon martin was killed president barack obama was in the mist his he election campaign. he took a month to comment. >> if i had a son, it would look like trayvon.
>> reporter: his comment became the story, he became the story. >> this is a president not wanting to be a lightning rod. he wants to be a facilitator for the discussion. >> reporter: which may explain the reluctance over the years to weigh into racial issues. at times there was no escaping it. >> i'm the son of a black man from kenya and a white woman from kansas. >> reporter: in 2008, when the racially sermons of his pastor nearly brought down his first campaign for president, obama de delivered this long awaited speech on race. >> this is where we are right now. it's a racial stalemate we've been stuck in for years. >> reporter: joshua was the policy advisor. >> it's the justice of commander in chief and speaking out as an african american man, a person whose faced the challenges in
his life. it's the dance between the public and the personal and that's what the president has to navigate. >> reporter: a year after his so-called race speech, president obama found himself in the middle of another race related fire storm. police arrested an african american harvard professor skip gates in his own home after he showed id. listen to what the president said. >> i think it's fair to say number one any of us would be pretty angry. number two, that the cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. >> reporter: charges against the professor for disorderly conduct were later dropped. president tried to smooth things over by inviting the professor and the sergeant who arrested him to what became known as a beer summit at the white house. >> and now with the zimmerman not guilty verge dividing this country, the president may be
struggling once again to find his footing. after the verdict a muted response, nothing on camera, just a paper statement void of any mention of rash tension. the president wouldn't want to be seen as coming down on one side or the other. but that doesn't mean he won't talk about it in the near future. for now, though, he'll leave decisions about a possible federal case against george zimmerman up to attorney general eric holder, the first african american to hold that post. randi kaye, cnn new york. >> a lot to talk about. with us tonight charles blow, also democratic strategist cornell. he said in 2009 i'm not somebody that believes in constantly talking about race somehow solves racial tensions. what solves it is fixing the economy, putting people to work, people have healthcare and making sure every kid is
learning out there. it's an interesting statement. cornell, let me start with you. what do you ever of it? do you expect the president to talk more about racial issues? >> i understand that we all sort of want the president to talk more about racial issues, but i also want us to understand by doing so, we are inherently playing into a double standard and that -- so if it encap lathe lates the problem with race in this country. there were rash issues with george bush and bill clinton. so the president ever statements, we want the president to ever a presidential statement and go further. so to a certain extent barack obama is trapped in this -- in this racial -- in this racial problem where he can't simply be president. he has to be president but he also has to to address issues in the way george bush had to be president. >> an interesting point there is a double standard. >> i absolutely believe that. you can't expect this man to solve the legacy effects of 400
years of oppression in five years of being president. it's unfair to him and demeaning for the conversation and the people that work in the issues and in the arena of social justice and civil rights. it's a demeaning position to take to say we have a black president, that changes things. that solves these problems. no, i doesn't. in fact, you know, the president operates on a national level with federal laws. a lot of these problems exist on local levels, local municipalities on the state level. if you look at where most black people live, which they call the black west, east texas to the carolinas, the president lost almost every one of those states, even though most of the black people in those states voted for him. they are trapped in a local situation that requires local solutions where people have to be on the ground helping to solve those -- the problems that they have and interacting and
solving that racial dynamic and smoothing out that racial legacy locally. and he -- he can talk until he's blue in the face. he can't solve that not in five years, not in eight years, whatever. >> cornell, by talking about it, while it might satisfy some who want to, you know, see the president out in front on these issues, it also alienates a lot of people that feel he's not the president for everybody, i suppose. you're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. >> i think race is to culture what social security is to politics. it a third rail. you touch it at your own risk. here is the problem, by not having these conversations about race, by not sort of trying to bring this divide together, we have people who are literally dying. i mean trayvon martin, his death is a product of our lack of racial understanding. so at some point, our leader the do have to address it, and by
the way, i understand the double standard that i just talked about with barack obama but i'll play into the double standard because at some point we have to have leaders try to bridge this d divide and have conversations because we keep kicking this can down the road and literally, peep a people are dying because of it. you have people on the progressive side and african american community that say he's not doing enough for the african americans and he gets attacked for it. on the other side people say he's doing things specifically for the african americans and it's polarized. once it is, nothing moves forward there is very little conversation that doesn't get muddied up in the muck of it. if you want to move climate control, banking reform, whatever the conversation, the racial pollization evers things harder but people are dying because we're not having this conversation. >> but they is more than one
leader. there is having a black president which is that he sucks the air out of the room. that his very presence is a double-edged sword. there is the amazing imagery being created of just having him be in the white house in the skin that he's in and his family and his wife and his children and, you know, you can't even measure what that actually means to a population. on the other side of that, he becomes the black leader but he can't actually talk about it in the way that civil rights laiders would talk about it. so now we expect something from him that he cannot give, and is not fair to ask him to give but the people who have the voice, who have the years and the decades in the trenches whose work this is have less of a voice. it's a real strange situation that the happening. >> interesting. charles thank you. cornell, great to have you on. a lot more happening tonight. the number of major chain storms
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the beach on your tv is much closer than it appears. seize the summer with up to 50% off hotels at travelocity. following a number of stories tonight, isha has the bulletin. rolling stone magazine is responding to outrage over the cover featuring dzhokhar tsarnaev. publishes say they are offering a more complete understanding of how a tragedy like this happens. cvs, walgreens and stop and shop are some of the major chain stores refusing to carry the issue. there is no letup in the heat in the northeast.
temperatures over 90s stretching true and had humidity it feels more like 110 in some areas. north koreas undermining the ship with the sugar hiding thing the. they are asking for guidance how to handle the case. lindsey gram is suggesting a boycott of the olympics if russia's president allows snowden to stay. matt and melanie can finalize their adoption of little veronica. her biological father tried to use the indian child welfare act to fight for her custody. last month the supreme court turned him down. the end of a very long chapter for that child. >> we had them on the program when the court first ruled. thanks very much. we'll be right back.
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well cop bacome back. that does it for our edition of ac 360. an hour from now a special report, not guilty the zimmerman trial. we'll hear from the juror in her first and last interview. she released a statement today saying she won't do any more interviews and she is the on juror from the zimmerman trial that's come forward and spoken
about her per spective of what happened in that jury room. a lot of people, the national conversation growing. >> what mattered was those final seconds, minutes when there was an altercation and whether or not in your mind who the most important thing was whether or not george zimmerman felt his life was in danger sner. >> well that's how we read the law. that's how we got to the point of everybody being not guilty. >> that's at 10:0 0 p.m. eastern. eastern. thanks for watching. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com this is piers morgan live. welcome to the viewers in the united states and around the world. the jurors say b 37 doesn't speak for them. b 37 says she's in anguish. a man that calls the trial a side show and blasts me. i'll go head-to-hea w