tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN July 18, 2013 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
remember you can always follow what's going on here in "the situation room." on twitter, tweet m me @wolfblitzer. you can tweet the sho show @cnnsitroom. anxious, as always, to hear from you. thanks for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." erin burnett "out front" starts right now. out front next, shocking news. detroit becomes the largest city in the united states to file bankruptcy in history. plus a shocking development today in the whitey bulger trial. a potential key witness turned up dead today. and new photos of dzhokhar tsarnaev to counteract "rolling stone's" controversial cover, but do the new images of him glamourize him even more? let's go "out front." good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett. out front tonight, we begin with the breaking news. the city of detroit has officially filed for bankruptcy. it is the biggest city in this
country ever to go under. now, in the filing, which i have been reading through this afternoon, detroit says its homicide rate is the highest in 40 years. 78,000 properties are abandoned. emergency vehicles regularly break down and aren't even able to help with fire or police problems, and nearly half of the streetlights in the city of detroit do not work. the filing means $17 billion in pension promises and debt could go down the drain. that leaves tens of thousands of workers and american investors empty handed. out front tonight, bill gross, he's the manager of the world's biggest mutual fund and the founder of pimco. bill, really good to see you. the white house just came out and reacted to the news from detroit. spokesperson for the president telling cnn, i'll quote him, the president and members of the president's senior team continue to closely monitor the situation in detroit. why does this bankruptcy matter?
>> well, i think it matters for the country. motown, to use a frayphrase, tot is no town. it's a city in bankruptcy because of mismanagement of local fishes, but i think in part, because of circumstances beyond their control, because of globalization and technological innovation and the vulnerability of our country, of the united states. not just detroit or michigan, to adapt to those changing circumstances. you know, the u.s. is not the industrial giant it once was. detroit was the focal point of that industrialization. it's not the same giant as it once was. the inability of the country to adapt is really the problem going forward. >> when people look at detroit, they say, all right, to your point, look, there's a population plunge. the automakers aren't as strong as they once were, although ford obviously seems to be trying to buck that trend at least. is this going to spread? we keep hearing the stocks are hitting highs. things are supposedly getting
better. we hear that from ben bernanke today when he testifies from capitol hill about the overall economy. yet you have a bankruptcy like this. are there other places in this country where we have a real risk of disaster? >> well, certainly, and it reflects, erin, the transition from an industrial economy to a service economy. that's not a bad thing necessarily. i think every country ultimately has to produce things as opposed to just doing things for each other, but it reflects that transition, and the outsourcing basically of auto production and the outsourcing of industrial production to other countries. to the extend that we don't take some of that back, to the extent that we don't advance from the standpoint of new technologies and new production techniques, for instance, with computers and apple and the like, then, yeah, other examples are perhaps in our future. >> bill, you know, i wanted to
ask you about this. when we look at wall street, you had record highs today for the dow, dow jones industrial average, as you know, highest close for the nasdaq since september of the year 2000, on the same day that we have the biggest citi bankruptcy in american history. those two things seem like they can't be happening in the same country, but they are. fed chief ben bernanke was testifying to congress saying he thinks things are getting better. the dow plunged more than 560 points in just two days. people are panicked. are people right now dealing with nervousness, maybe in their own lives of worried about whether their city or company will make good on their tension, like detroit will now not be able to do. should they be getting into the stock market? >> not those that are worried about their pensions, no. and there are other cities -- stockton, and san jose, california -- that are at risk and other examples throughout other states in which pensions
and health care benefits have put -- have been put in front of other liabilities. so bankruptcy is a possibility. i won't go that far. i'll only suggest, in terms of the stock market and in terms of its relationship to how the united states is doing, the united states is growing at a 2% rate. it's better than most developed countries, but it's not growing as we once were. it's not a 3% to 4% growth rate, and so stock prices at historical levels that expect a return to those growth rates are bound to, in my opinion, to be disappointed if, in fact, investors continue to expect a perpetual advancement in the dow or the s&p. at some point, growth will matter. >> right. if you're worried about stocks, a lot of people are also worried about bonds. a lot of people have been putting their money in bonds and pensions because they're worried about where things are going. ben bernanke says it will get
better because interest rates are going up. congressman bill hezinga of michigan, ironically, posed this question to ben bernanke during his appearance before the house financial services committee. this is the question so many of our viewers have right now, i wanted to play it. >> i did pass along the question one of my friends had, should he refinance right now? >> i'm not a qualified financial adviser. >> they laughed, but what's the answer? >> well, i think there's not the necessity to refinance now. the refinancing should have been done two months ago when the interest rates were 100 basis points lower. now the interest rates are stable. chairman bernanke has been walking back his mistake six to seven weeks ago in which he suggested the tightening and that higher interest rates were imminent. he talked about the taper and the reduction of purchases by the federal reserve. this week in the testimony we
just heard, he put in capital letters the words s-o-r-r-y. he basically said sorry. in other words, with the currently weak economy, we're going to require lower interest rates for a long period of time. so refinance, perhaps if you have a much higher mortgage rate, but not if you're anticipating higher interest rates. we think we've had that move. >> and a final question. washington is another gridlock, doing pretty much nothing to do with america's ongoing economic crisis. but we have the tax hikes and the cuts from the sequester. so the budget deficit is actually dropping. the obama administration can brag they're going to have the lowest federal budget deficit in five years. then you have this headline out of detroit, the biggest city in american history, to go bankrupt. should the government be cutting spending right now or spending more? >> we don't think so. we think the fiscal austerity path is a path that really has to be measured, if at all. if at all it's followed, that a cutback, when growth is so weak,
basically is the wrong path to take. although the chairman, chairman bernanke, won't say it out loud to congress, basically, i think he's of the same persuasion. >> bill gross, thank you very much. we appreciate your perspective tonight. on a night like tonight, we need it with that breaking headline out of detroit. still to come, the shocking development in the whitey bulger case. a potential key witness found dead today. plus the latest from the school lunch poisoning. the school's principal now is on the run. and trayvon martin's family speaking out today for the first time since the verdict. we'll hear their reaction to what happened to george zimmerman. later in the show, looking for an incentive to lose weight? how about gold bars? not chocolate gold bars, gold bars. "i'm part of an american success story,"
"that starts with one of the world's most advanced distribution systems," "and one of the most efficient trucking networks," "with safe, experienced drivers." "we work directly with manufacturers," "eliminating costly markups," "and buy directly from local farmers in every region of the country." "when you see our low prices, remember the wheels turning behind the scenes, delivering for millions of americans, everyday. "dedication: that's the real walmart" you deserve more than justo flexibility and convenience.
so here are a few reasons to choose university of phoenix. our average class size is only 14 students. our financial tools help you make smart choices about how to pay for school. our faculty have, on average, over 16 years of field experience. we'll help you build a personal career plan. we build programs based on what employers are looking for. our football team is always undefeated. and leading companies are interested in our graduates. we'll even help you decorate your new office. ok. let's get to work. we know it's your videoconference of the day. hi! hi, buddy! that's why the free wifi and hot breakfast are something to smile about. book a great getaway now and feel the hamptonality
every day we're working to and to keep our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger.
our second story, a potential key witness to the whitey bulger trial found dead today. 59-year-old steven rakes, you're looking at him there, was found dead at the side of a boston road. he accuseded bulger of stealing his liquor store at gunpoint and using it as his mob headquarters. susan candiotti is out front with this developing story. >> reporter: two days after he was dropped from the prosecution witness list, stephen rakes is dead. a jogger finding his body by the side of a road about 30 miles from his home. rakes' death a shock at the height of the trial of boston's notorious crime boss, james
"whitey" bulger. 59-year-old rakes, nicknamed stippo, was a regular at bulger's trial. for years he contendeded bulger and his gang stole his south boston liquor store and took it over as a mob headquarters. rakes recently made that clear to reporters outside court. >> my liquor store was never for sale, never, never, never. >> reporter: bulger croney kevin weeks testified rakes offered them the store, and there was a dispute over price. on the stand, weeks made it clear he didn't like rakes, and rakes responded. >> dislike me if you will, but that's why we're here today, and we'll get to the bottom of this. >> reporter: steve davis is trying to understand why his friend is dead. >> would weeks ever do something like that, no. i couldn't see him going that far. >> reporter: what about whitey bulger? >> does he still have that kind of pull outside? i don't know. >> reporter: davis' sister was allegedly murdered by bulger. davis last saw rakes tuesday after he was dropped from the government's witness list.
>> i've had a weird feeling since he hasn't talked to me tuesday. >> reporter: and didn't know what to think when he went by rakes' house and couldn't find him. >> this here seems like reflakting back to the late '70s, early '80s, when people were getting killed. a rat, someone's going to testify, and, bang, they wind up getting killed. >> reporter: investigators say they were no signs of trauma. some media reports have suggested suicide. davis isn't buying it. is there any way this could be suicide? >> 110% no. >> obviously, he's got a strong opinion. susan, found by the side of a road. this just raises questions about the power bulger could possibly have from prison, but i know there isn't yet a toxicology report. >> reporter: that's right. it's a huge mystery. investigators, of course, are all over this. was it a hit? was it a suicide? did he die of natural causes? so they're waiting for
toxicology results that could say -- tell them more since there are no obvious signs of trauma. erin? >> susan candiotti, thank you very much. that case taking a whole new bizarre turn. a major admission by the obama administration today. the deputy secretary of defense, ashton carter, has admitted -- he admitted, there he is on the left there -- major mistakes by the government made it possible for edward snowden to access top secret information. snowden, of course, has exposed some of the nsa's most classified programs. he shed light on a secret court that lets the government do some of its most controversial work. joe johns has this out front investigation. >> reporter: it is one the most secretive places in america. a federal court that allows the government to conduct surveillance on you.
it's work unseen for decades after this classified order revealed last month by self-proclaimed leaker edward snowden. it shows the mission of the intelligence community has morphed, giving them more data collecting authority, all with the blessing of this court. >> the laws have been secretly interpreted in a way that now allows the government to monitor the communications of all of us. there's a drag net of surveillance now in place that appears to be acting as a rubber stamp. >> reporter: the judges rotate, serving one week at a time, appointed exclusively by this man, chief justice john roberts, who at his confirmation hearing, expressed initial reservations to the idea. >> it's not what we usually think of when we think of a court. we think of a place where we can go, we can watch, the lawyers argue, and it's subject to the glare of publicity. >> reporter: but the federal intelligence surveillance court
is far from public. it's here somewhere in this sprawling complex here in washington, d.c. it's a court so secret, we don't even know exactly where it convenes inside the building. and how does it work? it was designed to allow government surveillance on individuals who pose national security concerns before bad things happen. >> and so the need for secrecy is to make sure that the spy isn't alerted to the fact that you are now watching whatever he or she is doing. >> reporter: the question now is whether this court post-9/11 is protecting the privacy of americans. >> it's the fact that there's a secret law and a secret body of law that makes it the most vexing and the most unusual. >> reporter: only the justice department goes before the court for permission to conduct surveillance. third parties don't get heard directly unless they go through, you guessed it, the justice department. >> it's a very strange process where an individual or an organization that wants to
interact with a court has to go through their adversary, who acts as a gate keeper to the court. >> even the judges that sit on the fisa court worry it m have too much authority. >> it's one-sided, and that's not a good thing. >> reporter: some in congress say the process needs to change, but so far no one's come up with the right way to balance national secrecy and public scrutiny. for "out front," joe johns, cnn, washington. still to come, outrage over school mascots. is it about racism, or is the dark truth that it's about money? plus disturbing photos of the boston marathon suspect. we're going to talk to you or show you what is the real face of terror. and later a dramatic motorcycle crash. we have the full video on this one. mine was earned in djibouti, africa. 2004.
vietnam in 1972. [ all ] fort benning, georgia in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve military members, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. and you wouldn't have it any other way.e. but your erectile dysfunction - you know, that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready.
and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with clis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial.
our third story out front tonight, outrage over school mascots. native american mascots were banned in oregon, past tense, that was until state lawmakers overturned the ban on schools using them. but the question is is money driving the decision to keep those mascots alive? victor blackwell is out front. >> reporter: the amity high school warriors, the banks high school braves, the high school indians. they're three of the estimated 900 sports teams in america that rally around native american mascots, but the days of the chieftains and the mohawks may soon be over, at least at public schools in oregon. last year the state superintendent found the continued use of native american mascots creates a hostile
educational environment. >> it's an unhealthy, unregulated environment, and it leads to racist comments and a negative self-image for many of those people. >> reporter: 15 schools were ordered to give up their feathers and war paint by 2017 or potentially lose state funding. fast forward to this month. oregon state lawmakers overwhelmingly passed senator jeff cruz's bill to effectively reverse the ban. >> after all of these years, it's kind of a matter of history and it's a legacy. admittedly, i'm from roseburg, oregon, and we are the roseburg indians and have been for a long time. >> reporter: the vice president of the oregon indian education association. >> whether it's a name or an image or a symbol, you are still objectifying a whole race of people, and that is unacceptable. >> reporter: beyond tradition and the support of some tribal leaders, kruse says the schools
simply cannot afford to change. >> the schools would have no choice but to close classrooms, fire teachers, or do something to make it happen because, quite simply, what's at jeopardy is the state school fund, which is about 80% of money needed to run the schools. >> reporter: at roseburg high school alone, the estimated cost to replace the feather logo on athletic facilities, books, t-shirts, uniforms, and more is between 340 and $600,000. estimates vary for the other 14 schools. >> it really saddens me to think that we're weighing against here the civil rights and discrimination against some students, against the cost that it might be to change these -- to change these images. i don't think they're -- you know, if you ask me to put a price tag on civil rights, i don't think i could do it. >> reporter: to keep the mascots
and names, kruse's bill requires they be approved by the american indian tribe closest to the school. the tribe would also establish behavioral guidelines for sporting events and offer diversity training for staff. >> what we're arguing here is acceptable levels of racism. so that means that we're only going to objectify you as a little bit as opposed to a whole bunch. >> there's nothing negative associated with it. now, having said that, there will be always be bad actors, but do we change the entire world for the small few? i would suggest no. >> reporter: senator kruse's bill has been sent on to the oregon governor, but the governor has said he will veto the bill because the exceptions are too broad. kruse says, if the governor vetoes, he'll just reintroduce the bill next session. erin? >> thank you very much, victor. let us know what you think about that one, whether you think it's racist or not. still to come, the family of trayvon martin speaking out for
the first time since the verdict. they say the president needs to get involved. why? plus shocking photos of the boston mabombing suspect releas late today by police. they say these images counter the "rolling stone" cover, but do they do more harm? and emmy nominations announced. who's up for an award, and who got the snub? tonight's shout out, the motorcycle crash. this motorcyclist said he was driving just above the speed limit. when he looked a little to his right side of it, and he said he failed to notice the car in front of him had slowed down without braking, which led to this horrific crash. the shout out goes to the motorcyclist. anyway, i could make that noise only because the guy is fine, and he says, even though his motorcycle is destroyed, he's going to buy a car next. given his motorcycle driving skills, we think that's a good idea. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases.
[ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪
reporting from the front lines. moments ago, a japan airlines 787 dreamliner just landed. forced to return to boston's logan airport after a maintenance light went on. meanwhile, authorities say an emergency beacon was likely the cause of a fire on board a dreamliner last week. the british air accident investigation branch suggests the plane's emergency locator transmitter be turned off or removed until they can prove they're air worthy. that's a frightening thing. the thing that's going to signal there's distress is going to cause the problem. including the thing tonight we reported out of boston, we have counted nine incidents with the boeing dreamliner since the beginning of this year. panamanian prosecutors have brought charges against the captain and passengers on board the korean ship that seized weapons. the panamanian government said they're being charged with illegal arms trafficking. we understand that means six years in a panamanian jail.
panama doesn't want to be embarrassed if the u.n. finds sanctions were not directly violated. the primetime emmy nominations were announced, and american horror story asylum led the way with 17 nominations. but not a single program from the major broadcast networks was nominated for best drama. it shows how the world has changed. what was nominated for best drama was "house of cards" from, drum roll please, netflix. joseph katz says this could be the catalyst for networkses and cable news to be more creative, innovating their programs to compete with the new kid on the tv viewing block. it's been 712 days since the u.s. lost its top credit rating. what are we doing to get it back? today obviously the biggest city to declare bankruptcy in america, detroit, declared bankruptcy right before this program. all in, though, ratings agency moodies followed s&p in raising its outlook on the country's credit rating back to stable, citing that declining budget deficit we talked about.
our fourth story out front, pressuring the president to act. today the parents of trayvon martin spoke. it's the first time they've done so since saturday's not guilty verdict. they said they're shocked george zimmerman was acquitted, and they pressed the president to personally get involved. >> at least investigate what happened. at least go through it with a fine tooth comb and just make sure all the ts were crossed and all the is were dotted because this is sending a terrible message -- it's sending out a terrible message to young teenagers. >> five days after the verdict, the president has yet to make a public statement. even though he had the chance, of course, when he went before the cameras this morning. so why is the president reluctant to wade into what has become a national debate on race? out front tonight, kelly goff, political correspondent from the root.com and melinda hatchet.
today the president was asked about the reaction by trayvon martin's parents, and i want to play what jay carney said. >> when he will next address these matters in some regard, it's up to the people who interview him, but he is drbg he hasn't shied away from these issuesed in past and i'm sure he won't in the future. >> he's referring to interviews the president conducted this week with hispanic networks on immigrati immigration, where none of the anchors asked him about this issue. we know the president doesn't need an interview from a television network. when this case first got national attention, he said, if i had a son, he would look like trayvon in a rose garden news conference. so if he wanted to talk about it, he would. >> that's why i found jay carney's comments would have been laughable if it weren't such a serious topic. frankly, his response to me reminded me of that moment when dukakis famously lost a
presidential debate when he was asked his opinion on the death penalty, and what if his wife were assaulted, and he said, well, i have a very clinical position on this issue. president obama is certainly not the president of black america. he's the president of the united states of america. and those of us in the african american community who feel he should comment more forcefully on the role of race in this issue get that. however, black americans are part of the united states of america, and what we're frustrated with is we've heard him weigh in on controversial issues with the gay community and the latino community. he hasn't been uncomfortable to weigh in with other minority groups, and we have not seen that level of consistency with the black community. i'm not sure what jay is talking about he hasn't shied away. i can count on less than one hand the times he's addressed race since he became president. if i can't handle controversy, he should have picked another line of work. >> kelly has a point.
he was criticized by none other than reverend jesse jackson, for example, when he waited a very long time to comment on the incredible surge of black on black violence in chicago. it's just another example of a racial issue he did not want to get involved in, at least it seemed that way. but he did, judge put out a printed statement, saying the jury has spoken. he seems to make it clear. look, the jury has spoken, and i'm not getting involved with it. what about kelly's point? he has stepped in on gay marriage. he has made so many social issues and other racial issues with latinos central to his speeches. >> let's talk about this case in particular first, erin and kelly. on this case, what he has said, i thought was appropriate in the statement that he issued, and he is the president, and it is appropriate for the department of justice to continue their investigation. for him to weigh in on that particular issue -- and i
understand trayvon martin's parents anguish. but i am the mother of two black boys who are now young men who have been profiled, who have been harassed, i get that. to lose a child, i can't even begin to understand what that pain must be like, and my heart bleeds for them. but having said that, what is appropriate for this matter is for the department of justice to conduct an investigation, and the last thing, i think kelly and erin, you would both agree, the last thing we would want to happen is for them to be undue political pressure for the department to file a federal case in this matter and it not be supported by the investigation. that would be ho rehn drrendous. we want it to be filed if there's an active investigation, and the attorney general has seen this as appropriate. >> kelly, one more question. i want to ask you whether you think the president is being political. >> of course. >> he's been criticized for being a guy who cares a lot about polls. people are angry at him. they say, well, he looks at the
polls. when you look at that famous incident, the arrest of the harvard professor, henry louis gates jr., you remember the whole beer garden, right? they had the beer. the response to that was not good. his approval rating fell from 61% to 54% after that and among white americans from 53% to 46%. is he looking at those polls and saying i don't want to go there on the black issue. >> in a word, yes, and that's what we're frustrated about. i actually agree with judge hatch hatchett more than we disagree. i think it's not his job to weigh in on the legalities of this case. what a lot of us are waiting for is for him to demonstrate the same compassion that judge hatchett did, saying i as a black american relate to the fact that a lot of parents, who just like me as a black parent, are fearful for their children's lives who are walking down the street.
that doesn't have to address the verdict. that doesn't have to address the investigation. part of what moved him on gay marriage. that level of compassion has not been demonstrated from the community, which is precisely the reason they gave. i have a problem with that. it's not because, again, he's president of black america. it's because we are a part of america, and he has not demonstrated the same commitment to our community because of fear of political repercussions. when is that going to stop? >> does he just take black voters, black americans for granted? after all, he was criticized for ignoring african americans in the last election, and guess what, he still got all the votes. >> i don't think it's fair. i think that we have to realize that he has a broad spectrum. he has said very clearly at the very beginning of this matter that, if he had a son, he would look like trayvon martin. but, you know, his heart bleeds, as we saw it bleed in sandy hook
when those children were dying. but right now i think the most constructive thing for him to do is for the department of justice to complete the investigation, a thorough investigation, and perhaps he may comment later, but to say that he has turned his back on black americans is not fair. it just isn't fair. >> i think -- >> final word. >> i don't think he's not showing the measure of courage that a lot of us hoped he would in a second term. representative cleaver, former head of the congressional black caucus, told me a lot of us have given him a pass because he's facing re-election, and we're hoping we're going to see more courage from him in the second term, i'm paraphrasing. we didn't see it in the reaction to this, and that's what i'm disappointed it and hoping that will change. >> thanks very much to both of you. we appreciate it. we want your feedback. zimmerman case has been getting all the national attention, but some are saying there are many other cases that should be getting the same attention. do the comparisons add up? is tom foreman is out front? >> reporter: phoenix, arizona, daniel atkins, who is mentally
disabled, is walking his dog past a taco bell. police say a car in the drive thru nearly runs into him. an argument begins with the driver, kordell jude, who soon pulls a pistol and shoots atkins dead, leaving his family stricken. jude says atkins made a threatening move with some sort of bat. police find no such weapon, and jude is charged with second degree murder. >> mere words alone cannot provide justification for the use of physical force. >> reporter: milwaukee, wisconsin, 76-year-old john spooner accuses 13-year-old darius simmons of burglarizing his home. the teen denies it, and the security camera shows the explosive moment when spooner accosts the boy and shoots him as his mother watches. >> spooner's lawyer claims mental illness. >> he didn't appreciate the wrongfulness of what he was doing. >> reporter: this week he was convicted of murder anyway. >> what do we want? >> justice.
>> reporter: in the wake of the zimmerman case, debates are raging over just when do people have and not have the right to defend their property with force? people in their own homes do not have to retreat from attackers before fighting back. more than 20 states have stand your ground laws, which extend that legal protection to situations outside the home. in almost every circumstance, however, the law requires reasonable judgment about the seriousness of the threat. that can make each case wildly different, and that's the problem for cnn legal analyst mark nejang. >> the standard is typically what a reasonable person would do under the circumstances, and do you reasonably fear for death or great bodily injury? that's a very subjective standard. it's not an objective standard. everybody, we're all human beings. everybody is going to perceive something differently. >> tom, you just heard mark nejame say, the key word in these verdicts is subjective.
this just makes it all really tricky, right? it's all in the eye of the beholder is what it seems like. >> it is. and this type of crime, erin, is different than other types of crime. that's what makes it complicated. if you and i go rob a bank or steal a car, they don't really care about how we feel about it. they just record our actions and prosecute for it. when you start talking about self-defense, there's often no dispute about what happened. the question is why it happened. so a jury or a judge is looking into the soul of the accused and saying, did this person have some really pressing fear? did they have some reason to be in a panic over the notion that they might be killed? and does that affect the details of this case. that's why this can be so unsatisfying to people. i'll tell you, erin, when you look at the details of the cases and you look at all of that, many of these cases that look similar to the zimmerman case at first blush in the details are really very different. >> tom foreman, thank you.
still to come, for the first time since george zimmerman was acquitted of murder, trayvon martin's family will speak out. they'll be live on cnn in just minutes. plus graphic photos of the boston bombing suspect released by police. so you saw the "rolling stone" cover. are these new pictures the real face of terror? "i'm part of an american success story," "that starts with one of the world's most advanced distribution systems," "and one of the most efficient trucking networks," "with safe, experienced drivers." "we work directly with manufacturers," "eliminating costly markups," "and buy directly from local farmers in every region of the country." "when you see our low prices, remember the wheels turning behind the scenes, delivering for millions of americans, everyday. "dedication: that's the real walmart"
we are back with tonight's outer circle, where we reach out to our sources around the world. tonight we want to go to india, where officials are trying to figure out how children's lunches were poisoned by a sarin like nerve gas. 23 children were killed. i asked what authorities are saying tonight about the investigation. >> reporter: authorities say they suspect the oil used to cook that meal was contaminated with pesticides, but the forensic reports aren't out yet, and the school principal and her husband are still on the run. sot mystery surrounding whether that meal was accidentally or deliberately poisoned still continues. meanwhile, in the village where this mass poisoning took place, parents grieved their lost loved ones, many still in a complete state of shock. all 23 children who died have
been buried around the one-room school. one child is buried right in front of the school entrance as a form of protest. the two dozen children who fell ill are still in this hospital behind me, but all are now out of danger. erin? >> thanks to you. now our fifth story out front, boston responds. so a day after "rolling stone" released the cover, as you see there, which caused national outrage and boycotts, the boston police department countered late today with new images of what boston magazine calls the real face of terror. in this picture that was taken -- let me just hold this up for a second, on april 15th, you can see tsarnaev barely alive, standing in that boat with the red dot of a sniper rifle on his forehead. that's right on that boat on friday evening. are these pictures a more accurate portrayal of the terror suspect? great to have all of you with us. i was looking at these, dean. the photographers with the
massachusetts state police took the pictures, told boston magazine, what "rolling stone" did was wrong, this guy is evil. this is the real boston bomber, not someone fluffed and buffed for the cover of "rolling stone" magazine. here's my question. does showing a suspect -- and i want ever the police look good? >> i don't think it headacevers their golfs to show the face of terror. what moves people is showing the victims, over 300 injured. my sister was there with three little girls, showing the fear on their face from a bombing. not literally the face of a guy, police with a red dot on his head. i understand they are upset and i would be upset god forbid my nieces were hurt, but this doesn't do it. >> it's this dark picture so you have to really look at it with the -- with the red dot on his forehead with the sniper rifle
that would show he was in the sights of the rifle. what do you think of the picture? >> i say hooray for boston magazine and boo for rolling stone. it looks like tiger beat. like they are glamorizing somebody that blew up an 8-year-old kid. it's interesting, we had this phenomenon with the manendez trial, they are so cute, it's not the thing you want to help erin or promote. you expect it from the new york post. they ran that cover with his picture and predictably these facebook teen girl sites sprang up, you know, to be a fan. and i think it's ridiculous. >> it is amazing when these things happen, the side of people you see, the people who become fans and people who see conspiracy theories. ryan, there is another picture that shows what looks to be his blood did body in the boat, hand and body slumped over the boat.
so you can see that there. that's his body and the middle hand slumped over and the swat team location, the swat team, the overwhelming number. these these pictures counter the rolling stone cover? >> i think any of these photographs were there tests. different people will have different reactions and when i think about the cover of rolling stone, the cover was reflecting a story by a journalist and the story is really about -- >> it's a great story. >> the story is about the folks this young man knew who were totally blind sided and puzzling and struggling with what happened. i think both sets of images are useful for this season. this was someone who went from this one place where people were totally shocked what happened to this other place. >> you're right. >> and still there is this deep mystery so all of these images are part of our portrait of who he is and have to be. it's not just him with the red
dot but this guy two years ago seemed to be a descently well-adjusted american kid and people were shocked. >> which is true but i should emphasize the indictment from federal government said he was not brainwashed, not innocent and a mastermind of this -- >> that version is where did this mystery come from and how was he so disciplined? >> the article to me i was against the glore flying it but if more people read it, its there. >> boston magazine, okay, they are publishing these. i mean, i'm not saying they are doing it for this reason but part of it. so a picture looking glamorous or a snipe l rifle, it's doing the same thing. aren't they doing the same thing. >> i honestly think, erin, the rolling stone cover glamorizes
crossing an ocean with your body as the motor, it hurts. so my answer was advil. [ male announcer ] paul ridley chose advil. because nothing is stronger on tough pain. real people. real pain. real relief. advil. relief in action. ♪ hooking up the country whelping business run ♪ real people. real pain. real relief. ♪ build! we're investing big to keep our country in the lead. ♪ load! we keep moving to deliver what you need. and that means growth, lots of cargo going all around the globe. cars and parts, fuel and steel, peas and rice, hey that's nice! ♪ norfolk southern what's your function? ♪ ♪ helping this big country move ahead as one ♪ ♪ norfolk southern how's that function? ♪
tonight, an idea that could provide people with a better understanding of how much is too much. >> i realize that there's a lot of people dying from drunk driving than should be. >> reporter: while serving in the israel army together they were stuned to learn more fellow soldiers died in drunk driving accidents than combat. >> you ask why is it so big? >> reporter: he left in 2011 and came to the states to attend college in north carolina. it was then that the two friends decided to take the high number of alcohol-related deaths and turn that into a potentially
life-saving idea. >> we want to attack the problem. >> reporter: what they came up with was this, it's a device that when attached to a smart phone can process blood-alcohol levels or bac and tell you if you've had too muh to drink. >> plug it into your smart phone and tap on the app, and then -- and within a couple seconds you should get an alcohol result. >> reporter: after plugging wage, height, age and gender, it calculates your bac before telling you if it's time to call a cab or if you're okay to drive. this defense attorney says anything that gets anybody thinking about their alcohol level is a good thing but he has concerns about the technology. >> it takes only between a millionth and a billionth of an ounce of alcohol to register on that machine. if somebody burped within 20
minutes or so of the test, that could throw off results. >> reporter: berry thinks it's the future. >> people are becoming more like self-appointed. they want to know what is happening. everything is becoming on your smart phone mobile. breathalyzers have to be there, too. >> thanks for watching. "ac 360 storpts now. erin thinks very much. tonight a mother and father who lost a son. at the end of the day for sybrina fulton and tracy martin and the parents of trayvon martin, it's that simple and sad. the jury's decision may add to the burden, the country taking up the debate will ease it a little but nothing changes the ache of absence, the ache all parents after losing a child. few parents see their child as a predator or have so many people define him to fit their agenda, whatever that agenda may be. so tonight, as we talk about all the greater implications of death ofra