tv State of the Union CNN July 21, 2013 9:00am-10:01am PDT
the british lawmaker who helped investigate the phone hacking scandals be setting the media and rupert murdoch. and then she went to work for him. this has been "reliable sources". up next, a familiar face, candy crowley brings you you the state of the union. trayvon martin, george zimmerman, and barack obama. today black, brown and white in america. the conversation on the streets and in the briefing room. >> we're becoming a more perfect union. not a perfect union, but a more perfect union. >> perfecting the union with our power panel including one time member of the black panthers in the turbulent '60s. and new beginning grish.
plus inside the minds of the first african american president with president obama's long time mentor professor charles oig he will tree. and race relations five years after john mccain conceded victory to barack obama. >> we both recognize that though we have come a long way from the old injustices that once stained our nation's reputation, the memory of them still had the power to wound. >> our exclusive with senator mccain with his take on race in the obama era. i'm candy crowley. this is state of the union. issues of race and guns have dominated the public conversation in more than 100 cities thousands took part in justice for trayvon rallies. . his father offered his thoughts. >> it sends a message to the nation that we're not going to sit back and let our children be killed and don't say anything
about it. >> the subject of race is not always front burner, but it always simmers. joining me now is senator john mccain who ran against then senator obama in a presidential contest where race was often a sub text and stiometimes a headline. after your gracious speech, everybody sort of thought and talked about a post racial era. what has happened? >> i think we were probably too optimistic. i think that old prenks die hard especially in hard economic times where some of the competition exacerbated it. but i think the between news is when you look at the military, when you look at the fact that we have a president who is the first african-american president in history and we have made significant progress, but i think that recent events have obviously highlighted the differences that remain. what i got out of the president's statement which i thought was very impressive is that we need to have more
conversation in america. i need to -- i as an elected official, i need to talk more to my hispanic organizations in my state, i need to talk to more african-american organizations. i need americans to talk to their friends and neighbors, not just those on on their block. >> we always say it and then it dies down and we don't do it. >> we continue to make progress, about you there are events like this that highlight and emphasize the fact that we still have a long way to go. we cannot be com com place sent in our society when we still with disparity in the you unemployment, when we still have contradictions in our society. the city of detroit largest bankruptcy in history. it's a waste land. what he another majority population in the city of detroit and who suffers the most
now in detroit? we know the answer to that. so do we have to continue and emphasize affirmative action programs? yes, without quotas. do we have to do a lot of things in america -- if you can salvage anything about this national debate isn't the word, national clash of ideas about the trayvon martin case, it's that we still have a long way to go and i think the president very appropriately highlighted a lot of that yesterday as only a president of the united states can. >> did you think that trayvon martin got justice? >> i trust the judgment of a jury of his peers, of individuals. i can't second guess. no one that i know of has said that this case was flawed, that it was corrupt, that there was anything wrong with the system of justice. >> but you understand how it could be seen as the president
talked about through a prism of the history of injustice. absolutely. and i can see that the stand your ground law may be something that needs reviewed by the legislatu legislature. obviously a lot of things need to come up for review. but to somehow condemn the verdict of the jury, you would have to show me where the jury was corrupted in any way. >> do you think the stand your ground law in arizona is worth looking at again? >> i think that, yes, i do. and i'm confident that the members of the arizona legislature will. and because it is a very controversial legislation. >> senator cruz has said he thinks this talk about changing stand your ground legislation is just the obama administration's way to get at gun control. what's your reaction? >> i don't draw that conclusion.
i just don't draw that conclusion. >> and let me switch up subjects quickly and that is to show you the cover of -- >> could i -- >> of course. >> isn't it time for us to try to come together? isn't it a time for america to come together in light of what -- several week of what is really exacerbating relations between elements of our society? i'd rather have a message of coming together and discussing these issues rather than condemning. >> so you think senator cruz's argument about gun control is inappropriate? >> i just don't frankly see the connection. >> let me show you the cover of the rolling stones. this got a lot of play. this is one of the boston bombers. lots of complaints. stores pulled the cover. inside is an article about how does a young man who has been in the united states for some time turn into a terrorist.
what did you think? >> i thought it was stupid. i thought it was glorifying an individual that represents a great threat to innocent lives and was responsible for the taking of innocent lives. and i thought it was stupid and i thought it was inappropriate. but for me to tell them to pull their magazine from the book shelves, that's not -- you news stands, it's not up to me to do that. i think most americans rendered a judgment on that. and also rolling stones probably got more publicity than they have had in 20 years. commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger.
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joining me now is harvard law professor charles ogletree. he was a mentor to both the president and first lady when they were law school students and even before they met each other. >> that's right. >> i covered president obama when he was senator obama and running for president. i watched him through the jeremiah wright mess when he stuff with him.
have seen some things that were overtly about race in his administration. this was a different guy. >> this was the most explicit commentary he's ever made. i listened very intently to his comments about trayvon martin after his death in 2012. they were cautious. but this was wide open. talking about race. talking about opportunities. talking about his own plight being someone walking into an elevator, being fearful -- women were fearful of him. so i think it was a very candid address and i hope it starts a discussion among all of us about race. >> because this has not been what he has wanted to be about. he's always been as you say very cautious, but also really reluctant to, you know, be the african american president. he is african american, but that was sort of incidental to his presidency in some ways. this was kind of a full on embrace in some days of here's
who i am as a person. why do you think he did it now? >> i think he's been hoping to have this for a long time. he's been pent up in the sense about race and what to say about it. he's been very careful not addressing it at all. and i wish he'd say more. and i think that what he said yesterday was in a sense i'm relieved, i have the shackles off, i can say what i want to say. and i think he wants to be a leader. he chose to talk about this. it was on his own. and this was not prepared remarks, but it was very thorough, very much what he wanted to say and i think it will help us have a conversation on race. >> you have known him since law school. >> since 1988. >> so much longer than most of us. and the question is the president obama on race that we saw a couple of days ago the one that you spoke to when he was a law student in does race come up at that time? has he evolved? what do you see? >> race definitely came up. you remember he's the first
african american to ever be elected president of the harvard law review. very smart student. did a great job. but he made sure people who were conservative and republicans were given keep positions. they wrote important articles. and you didn't see a race harvard law review. it was a distinguished harvard law review because of what he was able to do. and that same kind of sense i'm going to get along with everybody was very important. when he ran, people kept trying to push him in one area and i defended him on the issue that he's not the black president, he's the president of everybody who happens to be black. >> he did get some hate from the african-american community not just talking about it, but about doing something about it, look at our unemployment rate, look at the wealth white versus black, and he hasn't -- his philosophy has always been i want to make the economy better for everyone. do you think criticism was justified? >> i think the criticism was justified, but i think it lacks a sense of what he's done.
he has reduced black unemployment rate since he's been president. he's given more money to black presidents than any other president has done before. he's done a lot in trying to make opportunities available. the affordable care act will affect millions of african americans around the country, half a million covered under their parents policy. so there is a lot he's done that benefit african-americans. he doesn't boast, but if we carefully analyze what he's done, it makes a big difference. >> there's always a political edge to it. now that he has addressed it and again you have known him for so long now, do you yu you think, on, he has it off his chest and he'll move on, or do you think he will in some way keep the conversation going? where do you see it going from
here? >> i think he'll look at all the issues that are important between him and the members of congress and the supreme court going forward. so i expect him to talk about race when it comes to imgraegs. i expect him to talk about race when it comes to the affordable care agent. i expect him to talk about race when it comes to employment because it's hard to avoid it and he wants to say i'm going to use this bully pulpit that i have as the president of the united states to get congress to move on jobs, to get congress to move on immigration, to get congress to move on gun control. and he said african americans are killing each other. he's not shying away from that. but the reality is that we have fewer guns, we have fewer deaths. so i expect barack obama the person i've known for a you are qua of a sequarter of a century to make america better for everybody. >> president ogletree, thank you very much for stopping by to talk to us. we appreciate it. >> my pleasure. when wreturn, civil rights activists in favor of a justice department investigation and
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no justice. >> no peace. >> no justice. >> no peace. >> eric holder is reviewing what happened down there. but i think it's important for people to have some clear expectations here. traditionally these are issues state and local government. the criminal code and law enforcement is traditionally done at the state and local levels, not the federal levels. >> that was president obama reacting to calls for the justice department to file civil rights charges against george zimmerman while around the country yesterday there were rallies in the wake of last week's verdict.
joining me around this table for a look at the issues raised -- that has raised passions for both sides, newt gingrich, crystal wright, and she was a delegate for newt gingrich last year. counsel of the naacp legal fund, and an opinion writer for the new york sometimes. let me start with a basic question. it seems to me that the president was lowering expectations a little bit there in that part of his speech saying this is basically -- has to be at the state and local level to change the laws. people on the street saying justice for trayvon. what is -- what does justice for trayvon martin look like? >> let me just say what i've been struck with over the past week -- and i watched charles on a couple of shows and other conversations about this, there are two things going on.
there's actually a case involving a specific set of facts, and there's a national explosion as people suddenly look up and are reminded that 4 1/2 years into this presidency, there are very deep, painful problems that not only have not been addressed, not even discussed. so i think you have a psychological thing going on, which is in the streets, and you have a legal case, and the president is partly saying there is -- and i think he's hinting -- there is no legal ground for the justice department to reopen this case, but the country needs to have some kind of conversation about how big the gap is between the black community and the rest of the country. >> and i would argue with the speaker that not only are the dots not being connected in the streets, people that are protesting now, justice for trayvon meant a guilty verdict for george zimmerman, and the separate dialogue that none of us are talking about and the president alluded to is the huge
poverty that has been dragging down black americans for over 50 years, and that is a direct result of the breakdown of the black family. it's not like it's just happening out of nowhere, and that, i think, is the frustration we're not having an honest dialogue about. >> first of all, i don't think the president was saying there's no hope at the federal level. i think he was managing expectations, and i think that's important for him to do. he was essentially saying there's going to be an investigation, but there's no guarantee that you can bring a hate crimes, a federal hate crimes action against george zimmerman. i actually think the communities have been connecting the dots. i don't know that everybody's been listening. but people have been talking about poverty, the huge unemployment rate, especially for young african-american men in some cities reaching 50% and what that means. you hear it bubble up from time to time, sometimes at presidential press conferences. when people say justice for trayvon, in this i have to say the speaker is right, they're talking about the case and making sure we do everything we can to ensure that george zimmerman is held accountable for what happened to this young
teenager, but we're also talking about the larger issue, and that's what the president spoke to. the larger issue in which racial profiling across gender, across economic class affects african-americans. it is the touchstone. it is the one thing that strikes to our very dignity, and that's what the president spoke to. part of it is about law. part of it is about something much broader. >> i think all of that's right. i think there is the individual case, but i think people are worried deeply about the precedents that are set if a person is allowed to walk away from killing someone and have no culpability in that whatsoever. i think that walking away speaks to the structural biases that exist within the system and within the laws, and people don't want those structural biases to get away scot-free.
>> i will let you make a point, newt, in just a second, but i want to bring in somebody else. i want to show you something first that happened last year on the house floor, when one congressman broke official decorum and put on a hoodie after trayvon martin was killed but before george zimmerman was charged in his death. >> racial profiling has to stop, mr. speaker. just because someone wears a hoodie does not make them a hoodlum. >> joining me from chicago is illinois congressman bobby rush, who was there on the house floor, as you just saw. congressman, i heard a couple of things here. i know that you are having an urban violence seminar, meeting coming up. you represent one of the most certainly violent districts in illinois. you've had a lot of problems with poverty, et cetera.
when you look at, not the trial itself, but the aftermath, as newt gingrich was talking about, where do you see the base of this problem? >> well, it certainly lies in every community in which there is a significant black population, in every state, every city, every municipality in america. there's not one inch of america that does not have this problem where there are minorities and where there are whites who are citizens. it's here in chicago. two years before trayvon martin here in chicago, we had a young homeless man who was accused of stealing a piece of -- a small container of toothpaste, and they said he ran out of the store. he was chased by a security
guard down the street. four or five people held him down, and the security guard strangled him to death. when i wrote in protest to the cook county state's attorney, she said that she was not going to press -- bow down to political charges and charge this assailant with murder. so he's walking the street. anthony kaiser preceded trayvon martin. so it's all over america. >> has there been no improvement, congressman? in the years -- you have fought this battle for a very long time, and i think some things people feel like the fact that there is an african-american president says an awful lot about this country and prejudice.
>> candy, at certain levels it does. at certain levels it does. young people -- and i wore that hoodie on the congress floor, i wore that to connect with the young people, to encourage them, because if it had not been for the courageousness of young people going to the streets, then trayvon martin would have been just like anthony kaiser. no one would have known that he was murdered. >> gotcha. >> so that was my purpose. there has been some progress. i don't want to say there has not. but any time during this trial, i think the most vivid picture that i can't get out of my head was the defense attorney and his daughters licking the ice cream.
it suddenly reminded me of pictures that i had seen years ago of lynch mobs standing around a black man hanging on a tree, and they were in all kinds of expressions of euphoria. it brought these things back. >> hang on a second. i want to get some reaction from our panel. earlier, i cut you off. i want to give you the chance. >> this fits perfectly with what i was going to say earlier. you have a congressman -- and i respect bobby rush. you have a congressman who represents the most violent city in america. you have a congressman who represents the city in which over 500 people were killed last year, 74% of them african-american. you have a congressman who represents the city which is 80% of the killings, according to police, are by gangs. gangs have increased -- let me finish. gangs have increased by 40% since this president was elected. there is no federal program to stop it. no one wants to have an honest conversation about it. and so you have a congressman
whose own district is bleeding, who puts on a hoodie as a symbolic act, but he doesn't do anything about the gangs in his own district. >> wait a minute. >> hang on. first of all, congressman, let me let you -- >> that's a charge, newt, that is not going to hold, doesn't hold water. i have been working relentlessly since i've been in congress, even when you were the speaker of the house and didn't want to hear these matters. i have been working on trying to deal with this violence. i'm astounded and ashamed about this violence. but this is also systemic to an overall problem. chicago will take care of this violence. that's one of the reasons why on a friday, the 26th, we're having this national summit on urban violence. this was before the verdict we had planned this. the congressional black caucus is coming into chicago so that we can work on solutions to this problem.
now, what i challenge you to, newt, especially today, i want to challenge you and your republican cohorts. today is a sunday. today is a day of worship. we serve and worship the same god. in michael 6:3-8, the words tell us that we should love justice, do mercy, and walk humbly with our god. now, for those folks who are cheering the george zimmerman verdict, i would challenge you and the rest of the -- let us honor, and let us lift up the spirit of the words of michael 6:8 to work together to have the conversation, but not just have the conversation. let us deal with the disenfranchisement, and let us deal with the distortions as it relates to our nation. >> i know everybody wants to respond. i need to take a quick break. we will continue this
conversation when we return. i want to get your responses to bobby rush. we'll be right back. la's known definitely for its traffic, congestion, for it's smog. but there are a lot of people that do ride the bus. and now that the busses are running on natural gas, they don't throw out as much pollution to the earth. so i feel good. i feel like i'm doing my part to help out the environment.
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...and we inspected his brakes for free. -free is good. -free is very good. [ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. we are back with newt gingrich, as well as congressman bobby rush. >> in the spirit of congressman rush's last statement, i've been working for six months to try to get the black caucus and the house republicans to swap districts. i think nothing would be more helpful than to get three days of the black member going into a republican district and three days of that republican going into a black district. so to whatever degree bobby can help me to get this happen, i think that begins a conversation that's real. >> and i want to pick up on something about what republicans -- excuse me, representative rush. you had some time here, and you accused republicans of not doing anything. senator mark kirk got $19
million in funding to combat the epidemic of gang violence in chicago. representative rush called him an elitist white boy because he's trying to solve a problem. you have 100,000 gang members in chicago. this year alone 200 people were slaughtered, mostly blacks. wait a minute. i just want to finish one point here. over the holiday weekend, july 4th, 62 gunned down in chicago -- i mean, shot. 12 died. i want to say one final thing. in 1965 daniel patrick moynihan wrote the negro family, the case for national action. you know what he found was dragging down african americans, the illegitimate birth rate was 23%. and there was increasing rise -- this is important. >> i need to get other folks in here. >> increasing rise in 1965, and the birth rate is 73%. that is the problem -- >> you've had your time. >> in communities all over this
country, i've lived in baltimore for 20 years, same is true in chicago, gary, indiana, in new york, big cities all over this country. african-americans have been at the fore of pushing against gang violence, against black on black crime. >> that is not true. >> every time one of these issues comes up, what we hear is this issue about black on black crime. the fact that there is crime within race, and there is no such thing as black on black crime, there white on white crime, too. we live in a gun soaked violent society. and this vert tadict takes a ve peculiar iss particular issue, we're essentially saying that average citizens like george zimmerman who had a fear in our racially anxious society, that a young teenager is a threat can kill that teenager and can kill that
teenager with impunity. the issue of gang violence -- >> you are totally -- >> -- does that change reality. >> i must say this -- >> we can't hear when everyone's talking. i just want to get charles in here and then i promise i will -- we've talked about your district here. >> i just hate when we reduce problems and try to say this one thing is the problem. racial scars are deep and racial memories are long. and i think once you understand that a lot of things go into creating problems, and there will be a lot of factors that will go into solving problems, and we're not reductive in the way we think about the solutions to problems, that we understand that how bias works within us, in the system, that we understand that there is explicit bias and there is also
implicit bias, that we're not even aware of, that that feeds into a system whether or not that is a police officer in the way that they interact with people, that they come into contact with, or whether or not that is a health care provider and whether or not they provide this appropriate and equal kinds of treatment, all that is cause -- >> hang on one second because i just want to -- congressman, can i ask you a quick question here? because we don't have much time. would you go to newt gingrich's old district wherever it's purnt permutations is and stay there for three or four days and walk those streets? and i will ask the speaker if he's willing to go to-to-your chicago district. >> candy, i would do it in a heartbeat. to-your chicago district. >> candy, i would do it in a heartbeat.o-your chicago district. >> candy, i would do it in a heartbeat.-your chicago district. >> candy, i would do it in a
heartbeat.your chicago district. >> candy, i would do it in a heartbeat. but i want to understand. i am not only a mefb congress. i pastor a church. as soon as i get off this seat right now, i'm going to jump in my car and head to my congregation to preach this morning. all right? the englewood community is probably the most violent communities in the city. i'm there. i'm there -- i've been there for ten years. what i'm calling on not only newt, but the other republicans, is if they are really believing in their faith, if they are really going to church this morning, and it really makes a difference to them, then would be lord, one faith, one baptism, then demonstrate that. demonstrate that by not just pointing fingers, not pointing fingers at the problem, but understanding that there is real serious issue of disinvestment
in our communities. >> i hope that you will come back, congressman. i'm really running up against the clock. thank you so much. you get 15 seconds. >> count me in, newt. >> we have to get both sides to talk to each other. >> count me in. >> we have an agreement. we'll be back with our panel right after this. and we'll look at how minority unemployment factors into the equation. ♪ this summer was definitely worth the wait. ♪ summer's best event from cadillac. let summer try and pass you by. lease this all-new cadillac ats for around $299 per month or purchase for 0% apr for 60 months. come in now for the best offers of the model year.
we are back with our panel. newt gingrich, crystal wright, cheryl lynn eye fall, congress man bobby rush, and charles, i want to go back to something you said.fall, congress man bobby rush, and charles, i want to go back to something you said. things are multideterminative. there is history, economics, sort of things that are endemic to race relations that will take generations to kind of wean out. you b but looking at some of these figures from the bureau of labor statistics, 13% of black men who are 20 years and over are unemployed. that's almost twice as much as white men who are unemployed. black median income is $33,000 a year. white median income, $55,000 a
year. total black population 13%, total prison population, 737%. so what do you see with those numbers? >> one thing you said is look at the prison population. that is another factor. this is just recent history, but this is connected to the longer history. but recent history is basically a war on black and brown men with low level drug crimes. it fed mass incarceration of many black and brown men. if you look at the ripple effects, you're taking them out of families. you're taking them out of the educational process. you're creating more men who women view as not marriable men.
so even when you look at high rates of i will legitimacy in the black community, you can't disconnect that fact from many other facts. >> i agree with charles when he talks about the federal mandatory minimums for drug possession disproportionately affects blacks in general. 13 times more likely blacks are to be incarcerated over mere drug possession and drug sales, right? so that's bad. senator rand paul, senator leahy are trying to end that and let it come back on a local prosecutor level so that the crime is with the crime. moynihan said at the conclusion of a reporter did in 1965, he said the biggest threat to the black race is the breakdown of the black family. at the time in 1963, you had 23% of all black babies being born
out of wedlock. today it's 73%. i would argue that when a child is in an intact home, bloi can l out reams of research, that that's why you have the surge in high school dropouts. and moynihan said there is not one black community, not one black problem, not one black solution, but the pathology then and now is that we have fatherless homes. >> but on the other hand, you also had a federal policy that if you were on public aid, we could not have a male in the household. >> we still have that today. disproportionate number of blacks on welfare. >> no, it's not a disproportionate number. there are more whites on public
aid than blacks. >> in totality. >> let me talk you about a current problem right here in chicago which you and others say has more violence than any other black community in america. just recently, we suffered from the most intense mass immigration than any other city in the nation. in the history of this nation. 40,000 families taken up out of public housing which we admit was not the best and sent all across the city. >> closing down the public housing, right. >> poor people dispersed -- >> right. without homes. let me ask -- >> this is precisely what's
wrong with the kinds of conversations that we have about the kinds of issues that we face this week. because i think all of these points are critically important and we could talk about african-american women and single moms, we could talk about transportation issues, job issues and so forth. but trayvon martin had two lo loving parents. he wasn't in a gang. there was no pathology in his fael. we've met his parents. we've met his brother. we know the family that he came from. he came from an intact family. and if you're listening to this program, you're basically hearing a problem, a real legitimate problem. excuse me, let me talk. >> we're not talking about the trayvon martin trial. >> we're talking about why the african-american community is having the reaction it had to the acquittal of george zimmerman. >> by a jury of his peers. >> that's what precipitated the
conversation. and part of the difficulty -- ma'am -- >> let her finish. >> when we start trying to have these conversations, we he said up trying to pit facts against each other. it's possible for there to be a terrible especially tellic of violence within the african american community and it also to be true that racial profiling is a terrible thing that strikes at the very heart and dignity of affarican-american and left a black teenager dead with no one to pay for it. >> hang on, one second. let me let a couple of others get in here. newt, we're running out of time here. so give me your -- if there is one thing that you hope that you can bring understanding to to the african-american community, what would that be? >> i don't think there is one thing. what every american should take out of the last couple weeks is that the divide in how we see the world is so profound,
virtually every white american thought the skrir was fine. virtually every african american thought it was terrible. that should tell us something about how deep the divide in reality is about how we see things. that's the most important thing i take out of this situation. >> final word here. >> and what i will say is that bias is real. and we're not always aware of our biases. and we're not -- the people in this particular case may not have been aware of their biases and the jurors may not have been aware of their biases when they were deliberating. i'm just saying biases are real and they're baked into the cake of america. and that means that even in our policies and the way they play out, how they're enforced, it comes into play and people with skin like mine feel the effects of those biases.
>> thank you all so much. i have to run. come back and join us around the table next time. thank you for your time. and thank you for watching state of the union. i'm candy crowley in washington. if you missed any part of the show, we're on itunes. this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. you hear all the talk of paralysis and partisanship, but underneath all that clamor, is america back? for most of this year, markets have been going up, debt and deficits down, and growth is steady. so why are so many people still unemployed? and what about the dangers to growth from abroad, from europe, from china? i've got a great panel and they don't agree on much of this. also, american football starts in just two weeks, and the celebrated thinker and