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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  August 5, 2013 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT

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striten out his image set out on new start. >> think about it for a minute, i'm sure you'll get it. here's to you, florida's department of highway safety motor vehicle. thank you for doing what you do. keeping the streets safe from big turds and old farts. we salute you. "up front next," american embassy closed. images from the asiana air crash shot moments after the plane went down. stunning photos today. and plowing into a crowd on venice beach. what we're learning about the driver tonight. let's go "out front." good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett. "out front" developing story of the night.
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a terror threat directly from the leader of al qaeda. cnn is learning that an intercepted message from ayman al zawiri. extended one week for 14 of the diplomatic posts you can see concentrated in the middle east and africa. five additional locations have been added. for starters at the pentagon, barbara, can you tell us what exactly was in that message that got officials to go at it with this unprecedented shutdown? >> reporter: erin, good evening. the message from the leader of al qaeda in pakistan and it was to a man named nasser al wahishi, leader of al qaeda in yemen, and now zawahiri is number two. first of all, you have this unprecedented link between the core al qaeda group back in pakistan and this growing al qaeda presence in yemen.
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the message by all accounts was very specific in terms of zawahiri saying to the guys in yurman, do something. do something big. do something now, essentially. that set off alarm bell abells washington. and in fact we want to be clear. cnn had this information over the weekend. we made a decision not to broadcast a lot of specific detail, because the government has concerns about the security risk and potentially it invol d involved. then other news agencies including the "new york times" and another news service published it and it became in the public arena widely and we wanted our viewers to know everything we knew about it. >> a tough decision, to be made, and you can see exactly how we here at cnn made that decision. i want to bring in congressman adam schiff now, the house
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intelligence committee and talk about what we do know. congressman schiff, thank you for taking the time, you b. >> you bet. >> what more can you tell us? >> i can't discuss. take the threat seriously and broad reaction to the intelligence we've received. that doesn't happen for a garden variety intelligence, garden variety chatter. it has to be pretty high level, corroborated, we have to have confidence in our sources. i can't go into specifics, this is quite different from the routine chatter we hear, and something we felt we needed to take broad action op. >> all right. so when you say quite different from the garden variety chatter and broad action. let'sen honest, unprecedented action taken. i'm curious, you won't be able to answer the question as to where or when, but let me ask you this -- ishs do you know th
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specifics where or when or is it true the u.s. government has an unprecedented fear of an attack but actually has no idea if it will be in one of 21 countries? >> well, i think we knew a lot more about the when. that is, that the threat was fairly immediate, centered around the end of ramadan, than we knew about the where, where is which is why closures are as wide and travel advisories and concern about the homeland as well. we don't have specifics on the where. what i mean by this is not your average garden variety chatter is, you hear a lot of, for example -- you mentioned zawahiri at the top of the broadcast. you hear a lot of messages over time from him. a lot of them are expressing frustration that different leaders of al qaeda or affiliates aren't doing what he wants. sometimes he sounds like a voice in the wilderness. sometimes he has generalized threats or wants people to take action. >> uh-huh. >> and in order to justify, i think, the broad action that's
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been taken here, without reference to him or anyone else, you need more than what we've seen in the past. i think that's about all i can say on that subject. >> so one law enforcement source today told us the only reason he could see for closing diplomatic posts would be that the unite was afraid of something very specific and unusual. chemical weapons. a type of weapon the embassy could not detect. not doing a fwhoom would go through a metal detector or suicide vest. any indication that you're looking at something like that? something unconventional? >> you know, i wouldn't -- i wouldn't leap to that same conclusion. if we knew, for example, there was going to be a benghazi-like attack, very conventional weapons we would close down an embassy or consulate, if we knew there was going to be a truck bomb like we see all too often in places like kabul. we would close down the facility. i don't think you have to leap to that conclusion, and i think that the response would still be
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justified. >> and an interesting point. read into your answer what they will. what about the point you made, look, you didn't know the where but confident on the when. if you're confident on the when, right, ramadan ends the middle of this week, and then it's over. then the question is, is this just going to open-ended, or is the alert going to go away or are they going adjust to something else? once you do this, you end up in a situation of, when do you open things back up gep, are they going to seize that moment to go ahead with their plans? >> that is a risk and certainly there be down sides to the disclosure that we've had, and as more information seeps in to the public awareness in terms of what sources of intelligence may have been, that poses risks in terms of what we can gather in the future. also we've tipped our hand and may be less prepared the next tile. all of those costs i think are worth it, because we are deferring this plot. hopefully indefinitely. we're protecting our people, and we're buying time to do further
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intelligence. every day we're getting further intelligence in and some of that intelligence may tell us about who some of the players are with greater specificity where the location is that may thwart of plot or go after those involved. >> this is centered on the threat coming from, perhaps, al qaeda, in the arabian peninsula, the most powerful branch, many describe it as, at this point of al qaeda, and that it would be somewhere in that region. you get that em precision from the embassies that the u.s. has chose ton close. san francisco, new york, increased security. two airports. officials from both locations tells us, beefing up police presence in mass transit but don't know what to expect either. are we adequately prepared for the possibility that this could happen here at home? >> well, i think we are adequately prepared, and certainly law enforcement and the intelligence community are working together to do everything possible. you can understand why a city like new york which has so often been the target of terrorism,
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would want to step up their status and their alert based on what they've been able to dplgl and what we've been able to glean about the threat. there's only so much you can do. erin, we've already seen we're getting into the debate about, are we doing nome enough but are we doing too much? i think that trade-off in the whole nsa arena has been playing out over the last month. yes, i think we're prepared. are there other steps to take? certainly. are we willing to take them in terms of what it may mean in record to our privacy? a tough question they're debating now in congress. yes, i think we're prepared. debating across country as well. thank you very much, congressman schiff. a pleasure to have you with us. still to come, the world's most dangerous man. al qaeda's bombmakerone man is credited not just with the technical ability to build a bomb but the innovative creativeness to create a bomb that can't be detected. we'll tell you about him. plus a-rod's suspension. does the punishment fit the
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crime. and returning to cleveland's house of horrors. what made ariel castros family go back and what they did there today. and a driver plows into a crowd in venice beach, and what we have just learned about the motorist. the postal service is critical to our economy. delivering mail, medicine and packages, yet they're closing thousands of offices, slashing service and want to layoff over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains
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our second story outfront, a house of horrors slated for demolition. today relatives collected belongings from his home in cleveland where he held three women captive for more than a decade. the house is scheduled to be destroyed and that could happen as early as wednesday of this week. castro was sentenced last week to life in prison plus 1,000 years. he will not get parole in any situation. martin savidge has been covering this story and is outfront tonight. martin, i know you had the opportunity to speak with some of the family members today. what items were they collecting? you reported last week they were getting ready for the demolition and wanted to make sure nobody got anything. obviously, the family is a different group. >> reporter: right. they knew this day was coming. they basically collected everything from the practical to the sentimental and they had anticipated they were going to get one last look inside of that house and today was the day. they were notified very early in the morning. it was like, hey, if there's anything here you want, you
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better come and get it now. that came from the authorities. so they went over there. there was some tools in the garage, apparently, that they thought could have some value. they went inside the house. there wasn't much there they said had any value. they said it was, quote unquote, trash. however, two of the children of ariel castro also showed up and they went inside the home to their own rooms and there they did find things they wanted. here's the attorney talking about that. >> well, they found a lot of pictures. and they found things that they had in their bedrooms when they were little children. and so it was really -- it was very emotional for them and i'm glad that they found some finality here today. >> of course, it was their bedrooms that had been turned into prison rooms that have been used to contain those three women that have been held there for over a decade. erin, the demolition, as you point out, now scheduled for wednesday and it is expected to be quite an event there on the city streets. >> martin, i know obviously
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michele knight spoke last week, and she went back to the house, wanted to go inside. obviously we saw amanda berry at a rap concert the weekend before. the women seemed to be, they seem to be appearing more and more. this weekend i know we have some new pictures of at least two of them. who was where? >> yeah. michele knight was out and about again. she has been very much in the public eye. she seems to be very comfortable about moving about. she was meeting with andrew zimmerman. he is a chef that's known from the travel channel. he happened to be in cleveland. he was taping. and she's a fan, a fan of him, a fan of food. so they got together and he described her as a hero, of course, and maybe they even traded some recipes. and then it was gina dejesus. on sunday in cleveland they had a latino festival and she was part of the parade. she could be seen smiling and waves to the crowd. she was also holding a flag, a puerto rican flag, that's part of her heritage. and again, for the people of cleveland just to see these
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young women, see them out and about is really very, very powerful. they welcomed them back to life, they welcomed them back to the city. they love to continue to see them. they can't get enough. erin. >> it's just so wonderful to know gina dejesus was one of them. i know, she's been -- the one that's been the most quiet. he haven't heard from her as much. she wanted that extra security fence, and it's wonderful to see, just to see those pictures of her. martin savidge reporting, of course. we have new details on the motorist that killed a woman and injured 15 when he tore through a crowded california boardwalk this weekend. the incident was actually caught on security video, which i want to warn you is graphic. you do see it all happen. the driver escaped on foot. so at first, ran away. so you can see literally that person go through and all those people, injured people immediately, as you see with that little -- we've put a spotlight on it. but then after fleeing, the driver actually turned himself in. it took a few hours and he's now being held on a million dollar bond. he has been charged with murder. casey wian is "outfront" in
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venice beach. obviously this is summer and you have so many tourists and this horrific story of what happened, this woman on her honeymoon. what more have you learned? >> reporter: well, we've learned a lot more, erin, about the suspect in this case. his name is nathan campbell, he's 38 years old. we now know he's had a very troubled past. back in 1995-1996, he spent time on and off in a youth shelter in the hollywood area called the covenant house. they say he came, was allowed to come and go over a one-year period. they wouldn't say why he was there other than the fact that he needed many of the services that that youth shelter offered. also we've just confirmed that in colorado in 2009 and in 2008 he had three different arrests. one of them was for disturbing the peace and trespassing. another arrest was for shoplifting. he served five days in jail for that and another ten days in jail for another trespassing charge.
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so clearly this is someone who has had a difficult and troubled past. the district attorney here in los angeles saying no charges will be filed against him. today we're expecting that could happen as soon as tomorrow. erin. >> casey, when you talk about his story, obviously the story of the victims, many people injured. what do you know about that now? and of course what about the story about the woman who was killed? that just -- it's a horrible story. >> reporter: it's really a tragic story. 15 people total injured, including one woman who was killed. her name is alice gruppioni. she was a tourist from italy. she was here on her honeymoon. you can see this memorial that has been put together for her. in about an hour and a half there's going to be a moment of silence, a vigil for her. her husband, they were married on july 20th. he survived. police say he tried to pull his wife out of the way unsuccessfully.
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they were expected to head to tahiti after their trip to venice beach, obviously never made that. his family has apparently come from italy to be with him. obviously a very difficult and tragic time for that family and for the families of all of the victims who were injured in this catastrophe, erin. >> all right. thank you very much, casey wian. power and money tonight, adding it up for a-rod, we couldn't resist. 211 games, $31 million in salary and a full year on the bud selig bench. major league baseball has suspended alex rodriguez for violating rules on using performance-enhancing drugs. a-roid i guess. anyway, 211 games encompasses the remainder of this season and all of next, and it comes after the league and rodriguez failed to reach a deal. the new york yankee third baseman will appeal and he can play until the process is completed so you'll still be able to see him out there. if the suspension is upheld, though, the highest paid player in baseball, which is what he is, is going to lose a lot of money. a representative for the players union says the appeal process will be completed after this
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season's so a-rod is at risk of losing $25 million for one year and part of his 2015 salary, up to $6 million. meanwhile prices on a-rod memorabilia are falling. and 12 other players accepted 50-game suspensions without pay for violating performance-enhancing drug policy. so they're all going to take a hit. i told you a-rod reportedly refused a deal. but after all, he's still loaded and really doesn't have to work again. so frankly other than his reputation this doesn't matter. a-rod is worth $300 million according to so really, who cares about the $25 million. our third story "outfront," and accused terrorist finally goes to jail. why did it take four years to get this guy into a courtroom? why? the delay's reasons are shocking
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and chris lawrence is "outfront." >> reporter: the survivors of the fort hood shooting waited nearly four years to tell their stories to a jury. >> i was in that building, getting ready for my first appointment. >> reporter: retired specialist standing in line to get medically cleared. >> all of a sudden, like, just hear, and just pow, pow. shooting everywhere. >> reporter: prosecutors say a fellow soldier, major nidal hasan opened fire. he dropped to the floor. >> and all of a sudden i saw a laser come across my eyes. looked over, saw him pointing the gun at me, and by that time i tried shifting over, and the just -- felt like a baseball bat hit me in the side of my neck, and blood went everywhere. >> reporter: he'd been shot and seven days later hassan was charged with 13 counts of murder. it took two years for
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arraignment and everything ground to a halt over an argument about hassan's beard. his lawyers say he grew it out because he believes it's a sin to die clean-shaven. prosecutors say it was an attempt to keep witnesses from >> i him. and later, a judge ordering him forcibly shaved. when the case was back on track, he asked to release his lawyers and represent himself. >> it is very frustrating. >> reporter: for survivors like this one, it's about to get worse, because hasan acting as his own attorney can cross-examine them in court. >> going to be very difficult. it will be painful. >> reporter: but necessary. according to hassan's former attorney. he says, nothing, not even survivors' feelings, can stop hasan from defending himself. >> their sensitivities on the issue are subordinate to his constitutional right to act as his own attorney. >> now, just because you can
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defend yourself doesn't give you the right to be unruly in court. a lot of pressure on that military judge to make sure he doesn't harass the witnesses. he's earned about $300,000. still getting paid by the army. during sentencing if convicted, a military judge could decide to fine him. so some of the money could go towards that. he may be required to repay some of the defense experts who have testified against him. and, of course, there's always the possibility of a civil suit from some of the victim, although with so many people involved, when you really split that up so many way, it's not a lot of money, erin. >> all right. thanks, chris lawrence. so many amazed he's been paid all this time. still to come, some call him the most dangerous man in the world pap device that cannot be detected. a special report. plus, the most controversial burger ever. why it costs more than $300,000. yes, we'll explain, and you'll
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see it. we'll tell you why it tastes the way it does. and the shocking video of a school bus beating. why did the driver not step in? [ male announcer ] a doctor running late for a medical convention loses his computer, exposing thousands of patient records to identity theft. data breaches can happen that easily. we don't believe you should be a victim of someone else's mistake. we're lifelock. we constantly monitor the web so if any of your personal information is misused,
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welcome back to the second half of "outfront" where we start with our reporting from the front lines. i want to begin tonight with new images shedding light on what happened in the minutes after asiana flight 214 crashed in san francisco last month. these photos obtained by the "san francisco chronicle" were taken from a camera that was actually mounted on a firefighter's helmet. what they reveal is how a 16-year-old crash survivor, who
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ultimately lost her life after being run over by a fire truck, may not have been seen under the fire retardant foam. you see all that foam there. you can see a firefighter covering her body there with the foam and according to the paper, fire department supervisors were not alerted by firefighters that the young woman had even been found near the plane. we learned this afternoon that the "washington post" is being sold to the founder of amazon for $250 million. the newspaper has not been owned by the same family since 1933, but it was no longer sustainable. independent media analyst craig huber tells us the paper is losing nearly twice as much money this year as last. so why would bezos want the "post"? he believes it's more than trophy and believes he will become frustrated with all the losses. still, i would hope this. maybe it's because bezos like a whole lot of us still loves newspapers and wants them to thrive. a prosecutor called whitey bulger one of the most vicious, violent and calculating criminals to ever walk the
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streets of boston. this was during closing arguments in bulger's trial today. the prosecutor was incredibly methodical, guiding jurors through a list of crimes, including those 19 alleged counts of murder. according to law professor margaret mcclain who was in the courtroom. she says the jury will likely convict bulger based on the evidence. this while the defense is hoping for a holdout that could cause a mistrial with this whole thing. today a panel of foodies tasted, their took their lives in their hands and tasted a stem cell burger. we told you about this burger last week. today was the formal test. one said it was a familiar texture to real meat but the flavor is different and it misses fat. it kind of makes my stomach turn. that's because there's little fat involved, if any at all. now, it took $330,000 to develop this imitation. it was made from 20,000 small strands of meat grown from a cow's muscle cells. they added in then egg powder, beat juice, saffron and bread crumbs to do a fancy kind of burger, i guess. a rep for the burger, because
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yes, there is a public reses rep for this burger. tells us cultured beef is not genetically modified and spoils like normal beef. i've got to say, luckily the new normal won't be going to market for another ten years. time to work out the kinks. plus we told you some said it looked like a gray squid and tasted like a squid-like material so they have some work to do. it has been 730 days since the u.s. lost its top credit rating. what are we doing to get it back? well, popping the cork on some bubbly tonight maybe. not so much. instead nancy pelosi used the two-year anniversary because that is what today is of america's only credit rating downgrade in history to remind people that we have no budget bill and that the threat of a government shutdown still looms. she blames an aimless, chaotic, make matters worse congress that cannot get its act together. we agree. and now our fourth story "outfront." perhaps the most dangerous man in the world, al qaeda's bomb maker, ibrahim al asiri. he's believed to be the mastermind behind some of the terror group's most sophisticated devices. when we talk about devices, this is a whole new world. these are devices that modern
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methods right now, the best technology out there, actually has no way of detecting. brian todd is "outfront." >> reporter: u.s. intelligence officials have said he could be the most dangerous terrorist america faces. ibrahim al asiri, only 31 years old, master bomb maker for the group al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. he could be involved in the current threat stream. a u.s. intelligence official tells cnn al asiri is the golden goose of that al qaeda affiliate. they're guarded about his communications, determined to protect him. cnn national security analyst peter bergen says that's for good reason. >> the ability to smuggle a potentially undetectable bomb onto a plane or some other location, that's golden for al qaeda. >> reporter: western intelligence officials say al asiri is behind the foiled 2009 underwear bomb plot to bring down an airliner approaching detroit on christmas day, and a
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2010 plot to send bombs in printer cartridges in cargo planes bound for the u.s. both plots were foiled at the last minute. in 2009, al asiri even planted a bomb on his own brother in his underwear or a body cavity. the brother got close to saudi arabia's counter terror chief and set it off, killing himself but not the saudi minister. >> what does it say that he does this with his own brother? >> it says that he's absolutely ruthless. not only is ibrahim al asiri absolutely ruthless, he is, according to leading explosive experts in the west, really good at what he does. he's produced the most sophisticated devices ever seen from al qaeda. >> reporter: last year, u.s. officials say al asiri was behind another foiled plot to send another bomb in the underwear of a terrorist on a commercial plane bound for the u.s. the head of the tsa called that a next gen device. >> it was a new type of explosive that we had never seen
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and either attempted in the u.s. or around the world by terrorists. so all of our explosive detection equipment which screens over a million checked bags every day just in the u.s. wasn't calibrated to detect that. >> reporter: john pistole said that device had what he called a double initiation system. two syringes of chemical detonators instead of one. and, he says, al asiri encased that bomb in household caulk, so the explosive vapors couldn't be detected by machines or dogs. has this young mastermind trained others? >> i think the understanding is that he has instructed other people in his techniques. now, he's obviously a pretty skilled bombmaker. you know, to what extent has he replicated himself i don't think is clear. >> reporter: could al asiri's newest bombs evade detection by those tsa body scanners? that's not clear. the tsa would only tell us it has a multi-layered strategy to detect explosives, including what it calls the best imaging technology. brian todd, cnn, washington.
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"outfront" tonight, tim clemente, former fbi counterterrorism agent along with jeff porter, adviser or political and security risks in north africa. good to see both of you together tonight. jeff, let me start with you. you just heard brian todd reporting that perhaps al asiri has trained others. so he's the most wanted guy. the u.s. hasn't been able to get him. >> that's right. >> but if they do, there would have been others that have been trained in these sorts of devices of implanting in household caulk, something dogs and machines would not be able to pick? once he's gone, would the threat go away? >> no, it would just -- it would change. one of the things that al asiri would be able to do is transfer the current bomb making techniques to trainees or to his despipals, but you would lose that innovative component. what makes al asiri so dangerous is he's been innovative, he's been creative. some people use their creative juices. >> not incredibly bright. >> right. some use them for good, in this case, he's using his creative juices for eving.
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so you'll have a transfer of the current technology but lose that innovative drive which should mitigate some of the risk in the future. >> so, tim, how hard is it to catch him? you know, we hear always so much about drone attacks and frankly about a lot of successful drone attacks. but it kind of amazes me someone this important the u.s. doesn't know where he is? >> well, it's hard to keep track of people like this. but as far as catching him, the only way that's going to happen isn't going to be with satellites or electronic technology, it's going to be done with human intelligence. that's what's foiled most of these plots that we've seen in the past. there was somebody on the inside or somebody posing as a collaborator that ended up giving up the plot. we're going to need that in this case. so we need situational awareness. we need people on the ground. unfortunately, yemen is a very, very hostile place to put someone or to have assets be directed. >> and, jeff, when you look at names of who's important in al qaeda, and obviously al qaeda has changed, right, it's morphed, but yet there are individuals in different places that have become incredibly powerful and incredibly important. how many of those individuals are there right now?
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>> we don't know. a dozen, two dozen. >> okay. >> this is something that's constantly evolving. >> right. so what does it say to you, i mean obviously asiri is not the only one the u.s. is worried about. the man in charge of the arabian peninsula -- nasser al wahishi, sorry if i'm saying that name incorrectly, but is named number two. next to al zawahiri. what does that mean? >> the fact that a member of aqap has been named number two of al qaeda is i think an indication of the success of zawahiri's attempts to create aq affiliates, or al qaeda franchises throughout the world. so we're no longer dealing with just al qaeda central, we're dealing with al qaeda central plus all of the affiliates. >> in mali, in libya, you name it. >> and in syria. >> which many say, of course, could be among the most powerful right now. tim, you know, congressman peter king, who's always famously very
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open about what he thinks about these things, to the angst of some and the relief of others, but he said over the weekend that, quote, al qaeda is in many ways stronger than it was before 9/11. would you agree with that assessment in any way? >> the way i would agree with it is they have gone underground more. they used to be far more open, their communications were open. they would use techniques and e-mails and other things but would communicate that way. now we've seen with the capture of bin laden, going after his personal courier was the way we got to him and some of these other people, you know, it's hard to find out their communication network. so again, it's hard to find out their specifics as far as where they're operating and where they're communicating. guys like this that are being protected, al asiri within yemen in the mountains of yemen, you've got to get people inside there. the agency is doing that and other aspects of the national security apparatus are at work but it's a tough fight to find a needle like this in a haystack.
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>> racing against time. thanks so much to both of you. but tim and jeff, of course, are a big part of what we're going to be showing tomorrow night. as you know, we've devoted a lot of time over the past year to the benghazi attack and its aftermath. we hope that you'll join us tomorrow night at 10:00 eastern for a special "outfront" investigation. "the truth about benghazi." back to that fateful night a year ago. we'll talk to a suspect even the fbi hasn't gotten ahold of and most important we're going to speak to the families of those who lost their lives. that is tomorrow night, tuesday, at 10:00 eastern, 7:00 pacific. we hope you'll join us. still to come, the obama administration only wants to discuss one thing, and it may surprise you what that thing is, but we have unveiled it. and the shocking video of a school bus beating. did the driver do anything to stop it? american success story," "that starts with one of the world's most advanced distribution systems," "and one of the most efficient trucking networks," "with safe, experienced drivers." "we work directly with manufacturers," "eliminating costly markups,"
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and costs 77% less. it's called hp moonshot. and it's giving the internet the room it needs to grow. this&is gonna be big. hp moonshot. it's time to build a better enterprise. together. but when it comes to investing, i just think it's better to work with someone. someone you feel you can really partner with. unfortunately, i've found that some brokerage firms don't always encourage that kind of relationship. that's why i stopped working at the old brokerage, and started working for charles schwab. avo: what kind of financial consultant are you looking for? talk to us today. because apparently i'm raising some sort of junior stylist and it's the only place i can get the brands she needs, like total girl, and it's totally affordable. [ female announcer ] this weekend, get $10 off when you spend $25. style. quality. price. now at jcpenney.
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the brutal school bus
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beating caught on tape. shocking. 13-year-old victim left with a broken arm, two black eyes after getting completely beaten up. horrible to watch. three 15-year-olds beat up this 13-year-old child. one adult on this bus and it was the driver and he did call for help. you got to get somebody here quick, quick, quick. they're beating this boy to death. bring somebody here quick. there's nothing i can do. >> should the driver have done more? "outfront" tonight, dean, stephanie miller and hogan gidley. dean, you hear this man call and some people say why wouldn't he step in and try to save this child? well, he's 64 years old. >> yes. >> he decided not to get physically involved even though he was the only adult. he did make that call. >> right. >> was that enough or should he have up and save daniel
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from the cobra. this is a situation where he could have been beaten up or kill and these three kids that beat up the victim, the victim reported those three kids for stealing drugs that day in the school. that's the allegation and that's why they were beating this kid up. if he would have hurt any of the students i think he could have been charged with a crime himself or civilly sued. so he did what he had to do. there was no obligation to do anything legally, morally, anything more, even though it hurts us to watch that individual joe. >> stephanie, what do you think? legally and morally, no obligation? >> yeah, you know, erin, i think this is a tough one. you know, but if you watched him, you sort of saw his remorse that he wished he could have done something. look, maybe because i'm a girl, i wouldn't have walked into the middle of that. i wouldn't have had the courage. i bet there are some heroes that would have, but a 64-year-old
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man, a woman, those guys when you say kids, they're pretty big, they're pretty big. so i can understand him, you know, and he did call the authorities. i mean, look, if we were all following the nra, he would have been armed and there probably would have been dead kids. so, you know, i think that this ended as well as it could have for a horrible situation. >> why are you smiling? you're saying dead drug dealer kids? >> it's not that. >> are you going there? >> the next step is the nra -- you know what the next step is? hire security guards. you want to use money from the school budget, hire security guards on every single bus. the bus driver's job is to get them home safely and to school safely. >> right. >> now, the situation could have turned out differently. i think as dean and stephanie point out, this man was obviously conflicted, he was horribly afraid and trying to help this child. but he thought they do have beaten him to death. what if the child had been beaten to death? then what would you say? >> oh, gosh, i don't know that i would have changed my opinion one way or the other. listen, the police officer agrees with me. i think he should have stepped in. the police officer said the man should have done more. even the bus driver himself afterwards alluded to earlier, in subsequent interviews said,
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listen, i wish i would have done something. i wish i would have done something. he broke no letter of the law, as dean pointed out. he obviously did what he was told to do, which is call dispatch. but morally, broke laws all over the place. you see these children beating up another child, 3-1 odds you can't step in for a second and say, back off. back off, try to step between these two people fighting? i don't understand what the big deal? . look, i know he's an older man. it wasn't like these kids -- big kids. looks pretty big and strong but not 65 teenagefootball players. they're teenagers i. have to ask you, hogan -- i don't mean to make it personal, hogan, but would you have? i get annoyed at all the armchair heros in arathera and other places. i would have done this if i had a gun and done that. know you wouldn't have.
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you would have pooped your pants. we can all say wa we would have done. would you have done it? it's hard to judge him. isn't it? >> i'm not judging saying he should have done something about it. why wouldn't you step? >> talking about protecting all the people in the world. liberals love to, don't bully, don't hurt anybody hoop weaker than you. 3-1 odds and you're telling me you think it's okay to step band ak watch this poor kid get pummeled? >> to help a 65-year-old -- >> it didn't look like he tried to even say, stop. >> hogan is like jason. i get it. tough guy going in, stop the fight. kidding with you for a second. be honest. a 64-year-old man. he says he was too scared to get involved. >> do you think if this kid was dead would the conversation be
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different? >> it would be different. in the fight, hurt or killed one of the 15-year-old kids. talking about a 64-year-old bus driver who killed a 15-year-old student. that's the other side of the conversation. civilly and criminally cro prosecuted. believe me, it hurts my heart to see it. >> if he'd have broken it up, the kid would have fallen, broken his ankle, he'd have been sued. you know it. >> leave it there. please, let us know what you think. they disagreed fiercely. a programming note. the bus driver john moody will be on piers tonight, 9:00 eastern right here on cnn. we'll give you the whole story next. a meeting incredibly interesting. what was discussed, a massive alert about an attack from al qaeda threatens the united states around the world. you think that would be what he might talk about? but on the way out, no.
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all general dempsey would say is this -- >> healthy? seemed an unusual response to reporters' questions until we economiced it. we realized wuch the om things the administration seems to ever openly discuss is food. >> released a menu what they were eating. given us the substance. >> turkey and chili. perhaps thanksgiving left joefbers. >> grilled chicken. pasta xbraum lieia. >> fish tacos. >> chicken salad. >> grab cakes. >> from alaska. >> secret service super salad. >> san francisco -- >> power pesto pasta. >> best pie i ever tasted. >> classic deflection. confusing us with taco pie. clever, mr. president. not as impressive as the deflections your press secretary is capable of. >> can you describe a little bit
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about the clause? >> i think i would -- refer you to statements by the director of market intelligence. >> i'd have to defer to the department of health and human services referring to you the odni. >> refer to you justice. >> i would refer to you justice i. would refer you to the justice department. >> i would refer to you the department of justice. >> i would defer you to the department of justice. >> and the fbi. >> i would refer you to the fbi. >> i would refer you to the fbi. >> i would refer you to the fbi. >> i would refer you to the fbi and the secret service and the capitol police i. would refer you to the secret service. >> to the eu. >> i would refer you to the chinese. >> fair for jay carney, he has a sense of humor. that's why we play it but looked at a number of briefings. not like he does it every day. here's how he answered roerts' questions this afternoon. >> the department of justice is looking at some of the issues
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raised in story, but for more i would refer you to the department of justice. >> there's real food for thought. still to come, an torrent an of cour important anniversary today. why it matters so much for all of us. [ male announcer ] these days, a small business can save by sharing.
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important anniversary. a year ago today a gunman walked into a temple in wisconsin and opened fire. in the rampage six people killed. four others wounded. it was a horrible evening. the night after the attack we there, broadcast this program from the site where we spoke to members of the temple. a deservastating attack. family member, temple member, members of the community, people who lost their grandfather, their father, was that they would not allow themself to be defined by it. even the day after. it is seen there is a principal called -- optimism even in the
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face of add versus city what it means and the members of the temple embraced that principle over the past year trying to get recognition and have people learn from this and this week when they organized a series of religious rituals of other events to celebrate the lives of the friends and family that they lost that day. tonight they are holding a candlelight vigil in the parking lot of that temple. the rampage was fwhun a series of high-profile shootings last year. as a result it didn't get the attention he might otherwise have. that's why we wanted to take this opportunity to let the members of the temple and the sikh community in america know that our thoughts are with them tonight. "piers morgan" is next. you really couldn't have come at a better time.
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this is piers morgan live, welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. a. rod strikes unite. he is serving a 211 game suspension. in a doping scandal that involves many other players. the dodgers question his use of performance enhancing drugs. >> i'm sure there's been mistakes made along the way. we're here now. i'm a human being. i have had two hip surgeries, two knee surgeries, i'm fighting for my life. i have to defend myself, if i don't defend myself, no one else will. also caught on tape, three teens brutally beat on a school bus. did the driver do enou t