tv Legal View With Ashleigh Banfield CNN August 23, 2013 8:00am-9:01am PDT
the ways you could save. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy? the president's defense of nsa snooping and a lot more from his one-on-one cnn interview is coming your way this hour also, were those oklahoma teenagers accused of killing an australia student really just bored or did this have a little more to do with it? was it gain violence, racial hatred? >> and judge bell vin perry. some called him the ring master of the circus that was casey anthony's trial. he's going to join me to talk about another high profile
trial. hello, everyone and welcome to "legal view." it is friday, august 23rd ap today could be the day that the city of san diego can finally move on. mayor bob filner publicly accused by sexual harassment than no fewer than 18 woman could actually end up stepping down today and it's if city officials accept a prosed mediation agreement. our casey wian has been following the story live in san diego. all of these meetings seem to be behind closed clo doors. the mediation agreement was reached behind closed door. how much do we really know about this? >> reporter: we don't know a lot accept that, ashleigh, the potential resignation of bob filner is on the table and is part of this proposed settlement. the parties involved in these negotiations have made a promise to the federal judge who
mediated this proposed settlement that they would not speak about this issue before the city council has a chance to view this proposed deal. but we got a hint of what the issues are that they are struggling with from one of the parties involved in the discussions and that's city councilman kevin falk near. he said, i joined the discussion to ensure the city gets the best deal possible for taxpayers. two point here. how much are taxpayers going to be on the hook h for bob filner's alleged misdeeds. there is a sexual harassment lawsuits that remains on the table. according to gloria allred, the attorney for the woman who filed the sexual harassment lawsuit, there is no deal in that lawsuit and she does not want me taxpayer money to go towards settling that lawsuit. but it seems clear that the city council members are willing to at least include some sort of financial concessions toward bob
filner as a way of ending the civic nightmare that has paralyzed the city of san diego. >> that's a fair assessment. it's paralyzed. we'll continue to watch. thank you for that. the chorus is growing a lot louder when it comes to syria now. there are more countries, including russia, chime in and demanding that inspections happen and answers are given to a big question. did the syrian government just kill more than a thousand of its own people using illegal chemical weapons. there are been calls for the united nation to step on on searia and for the united states to step in. president obama talked about the pressure to act. he sat down with our chris cuomo. >> and, you know, if the u.s. goes in and attacks another country without a u.n. mandate
and without clear evidence that can be presented, then there are questions in terms of whether international law supports it, do we have the coalition to make it work, and, you know, those are consideration that we have to take into account. >> you don't believe we've seen enough? >> well, this latest event is something we've got to take a look at. keep in mind also, chris, because i know the american people keep this in mind, we've still got a war going on in afghanistan. >> chris lawrence joins me now. i was trying to read between the lines of what the president was saying to chris cuomo and i heard very specifically he's looking at the law here and there are plenty of international laws many e of us may not know about. there is the world court and the declaration of war that some say has to be made. so it's not as simple as just moving in to syria, is it? >> no. i mean, this may be where you
diverge from the law into mor morality because the regulations are pretty clear. there's two ways to do about it, the u.s. security counsel okays the action or in self-defense. the u.s. security council is not going to give its blessing on this and there doesn't really seem to be any justification for self-defense. you can't argue that turkey or jordan or one of the member states is under attack. you start to look for other justifications. you could point to what happened in kos vo. that intervention did not have the stamp of approval of a u.s. mandate but nations looked at it and found a moral justification saying they exhausted all other options, that it would be better for the people to intervene. the good outweighed the marm.
so ultimately that may be what you come down to here going for more a moral justification rather than a strictly legal one. >> always makes me worried for american troops who may be morally in the right place, legally not in the right place and what can happen to them. chris, thank you for digging into that for us. we're going to have a lot more of president obama's exclusive entire view coming up. chris will join me to talk about what the president is facing. first of wul' government a few other top r stories jurors have resumed their deliberations in the court case. >> he's acting as his own lawyer awe and do a really awful job. hey's a lousy lawyer and a lousy client, maybe just what hae wants. jurors asked for a second look
at some of the evidence late yesterday. to be a fly on the wall. he was once a star of the nfl, but now he's just like any other first degree murder defendant. the grand jury has indicted aaron hernandez. he's accused of ordinary care straight the death of his friend 27-year-old lloyd. lloyd's body was found in june in a park near hernandez's home. hernandez has pleaded not guilty police say they have foiled a plan by these two people, a plan to execute las vegas police officers. they are apparently members of a group called sovereign citizens, a group that the fbi considers a domestic terrorist group. they were actively planning to kidnap and execute one officer. this is without question an
ongoing investigation. >> more of the exclusive interview with the president as he talks about nsa leaks, your privacy concerns in particular. have a listen. >> at some point does the technology outpace the laws that are in place and do some of the systems end up being a loaded bun out there that somebody at some future point could abuse? >> the president taen anchor man, but guess what, those who men are also lawyers and chris cuomo is about to join me to talk law' what exactly the president just said. [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. i just served my mother-in-law your chicken noodle soup but she loved it so much... i told her it was homemade. everyone tells a little white lie now and then. but now she wants my recipe [ clears his throat ] [ softly ] she's right behind me isn't she?
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to go the distance with you. go long. i think it's without a doubt a lot of us have been pretty uncomfortable to hear that the government has been spying and possibly reading our e-mails and even knowing about our phone calls et cetera. the president has had to answer about that. he says it's really a public perception of lack of confidence, not enough information, funny enough. hear's more of the president's conversation with our chris cuomo. >> there's been a lot of discussion about what the nsa does taen surveillance programs. you have said it is not the business of the u.s. government to spy on its own people. but the more that seems to come out the more questions that seem
to be raised. are you confident that you know everything that's going on in that agency and you can say to the american people it's all being done the right way? >> yes. but what i've also said is that it can only work if the american people trust what's going on and what's been clear since the disclosures that were made by mr. snowden is that people don't have enough information and aren't confident enough that between all the safeguards and checks that we put in place within the executive branch and the federal court oversight that takes place on the program and congressional over sight, people have still concerned as to whether their e-mails are being read or their phone calls -- >> especially when they hear they are. mistakes are made and it shakes your confidence. >> what they learned is nsa accidentally pulled the e-mails of some americans in violation
of their own rules because of technical problems that they didn't realize. they presented those problems to the court. the court said this isn't going to cut it. you're going to have to improve the safeguards given these technical problems. that's exactly what happened. all these safeguards, checks, audits, oversight worked. now i think there are legitimate concerns that people have. technology is moving so quick that, you know, at some point does the technology outpace the laws that are in place and the protections that are in place and do some of these systems end up being a loaded gun out there that somebody at some future point could abuse? because there are no allegations and i'm very confident knowing the nsa and how they operate that someone is purposely out tlo trying to abuse the program. >> you're confident in that? >> i am confident in that. but what i recognize is that we're going to have to continue
to improve the safeguards and as technology moves forward, that means we may be able to build technologies to give people more assurance. and we do have to do a better job of giving people confidence in how these programs work. so what i've said is that i am open to working with congress to figure out can we get more transparency in terms of how the oversight court works. do we need a public advocate in there who people have confidence in? we need to do it in a way to recognize that we have hostile folks out there potentially wanting to do us harm. >> chris cuomo is with me now. after doing the terrific interview. you covered so much ground with him. i was really interested in hearing how he defended this issue. but he says that we're only half informed. maybe not half but we're partially informed by what snowden has leaked and that's a
dangerous thing? >> let me disclaim. i'm happy to provide the analysis in terms of where he's coming from on this, the president. and what it seems as though, the first answer is, well, just like with everything that we report on, we're not getting it completely right so we're misleading the people and they're now having a lack of trust in something. that's the president's first line, what mr. snowden leaked out is not the complete picture. that's not specific to surveillance but that's how he feels. you don't know the whole story. >> the only issue i found fascinating is he's blaming technology somewhat, the technology that government has employed in prosecuting its program of snooping and saying it may have gotten ahead of what its intentions of.
as lawyer is it fair to say ignorance of the law is a defense? >> it's a pretty sophisticated analysis of this. the invasion of privacy is kind of mushy law. it starts back in 1967 with the cats case which established the phrase expectation of privacy. ia put on a bug on the phone. >> i was born in '67 i still had a fourth amendment right. nobody can come searching through my e-mail or my house. >> tlarhat's right. but as the law evolved we don't know when it's an invasion of private sigh or when it isn't. there are some distinctions and that's when we get into the main point of your question. if the nas knows that it's violating rights and obviously it's a breach of the constitution. mistake of the law is never a defense. you can't say the government or
anyone else can't say it was illegal to do x and then get off. you're not going to get off. mistake of fact can be a defense. president is saying the technology is getting ahead of our ability to monitor the technology. that means some of the programs in his estimation brings in dtaa their ooh -- >> they're not supposed to. >> well you say that's still wrong. but he says it's all coming in from in-house. there is no intent to deceive and he thinks that' important. >> great interview. i'm surprised you were able to get that many topics in. thank you for joining us. you know he's a lawyer. he's going to be back. chris cuomo. thank you by the way in another one-on-one interview the fbi director robert mueller also talking about protecting the country and preventing another terror attack.
>> i think there's a good chance that we would have prevented a part of 9/11 -- in other words there were four planes, 20, 19 persons involved. i think we would have a better chance of identifying those individuals who are contemplating that attack. >> we're going to have a whole lot more with your conversation with our joe johns later on. the search is on of one of two thugs because they're expected of beating a world war ii veteran and leave him to die. dad. how did you get here?
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we've got a big development in a story we've been following all morning. a very distressing story. a juvenile suspect has been arrested a charged with first degree murder in the beating of an 89-year-old world war ii veteran in spokane, washington. and the search is on for an accomplice, a second suspect believed to be out there.
>> it was a war vet and he fought for this country. in fact he was shot when hi was 18 years old on the beaches of okinawa. >> he h survived world war attack only to be savagely beat to death. shortly, 89-year-old dellbert. >> bellton was atalked in his car wednesday night weight for a friend outside this pool hall where he often played. bellton's friend found him badly beaten inside his vehicle. bellton suffered severe head injuries. he died thursday morning. >> it appears he was assaulted in the parking lot and there wouz no indication that e would have known these people before the assault. >> police are released this
surveillance photos of the suspects. >> they need to be caught period. that's senseless. beating an old man, what kind of person does that? >> friend of shorty have put up a memorial outside the pool hall. as they hold out hope that the kind old man who gave so much for his country will get justice in the end. >> once again we just learned that the police in that area have arrested a suspect. it's a vooif nile male. we don't know his age. he's been charged with dig degree robbery and murder. joining me now, paul callan. we could have the conversation about should they be charged an an adult. what i really want to ask you is there are murders and there are murders and when you have a victim as beloved a this man, 89 years old job u you heard that man .
it seems like we're repeating ourselves. three of these teenagers accused of killing the australia baseball player. everybody said i.d. was just for fun but now guess what. there may be a little more to the story. there may be a whole other motive and it may not be as random as we first thought. hear the details next. [ shapiro ] at legalzoom, you can take care of virtually all your important legal matters in just minutes. protect your family... and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.
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why did three teenagers allegedly kill a young man out for a jog for no obvious reason? it's the big question in the killing of the australian baseball player, christopher lang. one of the suspects told the police it was just because we were bored, lacking for something to do. there's more to it than meets the eye. could this be a gang initiation or perhaps a hate crime? >> the reason we say that is because there are some tweets
that have emerged from the 15-year-old suspect, james edwards. he's the one on the right. this is what e h says but i can't say it exactly. "when it's time to start taking lives." back in april, this tweet, same person tweeting, he said, "90% of white people are nasty, #hate them." want to bring in legal analysts now. paul, i'm going start with you. that sounds like it could be a hate crime but can you connect a tweet like that to a killing months later? >> i think you certainly can and they have more evidence than that, of course, because they have the three suspects in the case who they have presumably taken statements from. from what i've seen this could be charged as a hate crime. that's going to be the least of it here. this is first degree murder and this is crime of just
unexcusable brutality for a person who was doing nothing but jogging on the street. it's a horrible crime. >> faith, you're a former prosecutor. a lot of times when you have multiple defendants in the same killing or crime they do a lot of this. it was the other guy who did it. so in this instance do you try all three of these kids together, do you sever their trials? is there a benefit or advantage to either the defense or the prosecution in doing that in. >> you want to try them all together. you want to put them all on trial together, tell the jury the story and how each one of them participated in the heinous crime. we've seen one of the defendants start to talk and say in court yesterday i didn't pull the trigger. at least one of them is pointing the finger. >> the other dude did it defense, it's a pretty good defense. >> in jones, the one who said i didn't pull the trigger, he's
absolutely going to want to sever his case. he wants to separate himself. so if there's a motion to sever, it's going to come from his attorney and the defense. >> so danny, there's just so much to talk about with this particular case but you just get down to brass tax on this one, i said earlier, how do you find a jury when you're dealing with people who appear to be monsters. but maybe more importantly, how do you actually prosecute this case? do you good guard as a hate crime because that can be trickier and you can overshoot and then lose. or do you now ahead with this is a case with chaus tif aggravators. >> i don't know with sentencing you need a hate crime even though you could potentially show it. look a the all of the evidence these days generate with twitter and facebook. you have these statements memorialized forever. so if you introduce that you might have the opportunity to
charge a hate crime. you may not need it. the maximum penalty is life. they're juvenile. they won't be able to be executed. the key here is this first degree murder. the other key is ultimately going to be the jones character, why is he charged with just accessory after the fact. i they's confusing a lot of attorney right now. >> there's a dad that spoke with the police about why he think ths is an actual gang initiation. he had a son that was apparently on a list that was found. let me let you hear why he describes why he thinks this is a gang initiation. >> i don't think it was for fun. i don't think it was at random. i think it was initiation. >> gang initiation. >> because i understand after that happened, there's a list that pops up with my son's name at the top of the list and four others they were going to bump off. >> paul callan, do i even care what the motive is? because you don't have to prove
a motive in a murder case. it doesn't mat or. does it matter in charging? does it matter in sentencing? >> no, it doesn't matter. if it's gang initiation, random hatred, it's still first degree murder. in this case, this is going to be watched carefully. i was looking at some of the news articles today, australia is watching it carefully. the rest of the world is watching this case and how our system of justice deals with this case. >> vi three seasons lawyers sitting beside me. show of hands if this one shocks you with everything you've already seen in your profession. >> it's still shocking to me. >> danny. >> it really doesn't. as someone who's done a lot of juvenile delink whency work, that's where you see the saddest cases. i wish i could be more jaded. >> read a book "in cold blood."
>> i hear you. there are so many. still to come, a better story. this is so heartwarming especially with what we've had to cover. a hero school clerk taen 911 dispatcher meeting, hugging, you want to talk raw emotion, these two talks their way through an elementary school shooting that could have but did not happy they meet face to face on cnn. 0 we do? i took the trash out. i know. and thank you so much for that.
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you know in this program we've been talking a lot about teenagers and the challenges they're facing coming up but we haven't touched about what life is like for some teenagers out there like teens from war torn countries. imagine in a new country life is unbearable but one cnn hero making a huge difference for
some girls in chicago. have a look. >> my family come to america because we want a better life. when i got to chicago, it's really hard the first time. i'm totally lost. >> it's hard enough to be a teenage girl in the united states so it's even harder to be a ref yu states so it's even harder to be a ref ygee teenager. >> i help refugee girls find their place in america. in my free time i was tutors different kids. one girl was really struggling. >> how's it going? >> good. >> take care of my brothers. >> we started going on field trips. we talked about college and things started changing. >> are you getting excited for classes? >> yeah. >> one of our biggest goals together was for her to graduate from high school and be on a
path to go to college. and she did. i thought that was really good. >> there are about 50 girls in our different programs. >> you're making great progress. i'm so proud of you. >> our mentor ship programs matches them with girls who are in high school. >> i want to write about my life. >> in walking down the street they are just teenagers. >> i want to have my own so slon. >> one day i'm hoping to become a nurse. >> i want to be a teacher. >> i want to become a doctor or a nurse. >> what i can see all of the things that the girls can accomplish, it's really wild. >> and we need your help to find more inspurg people just like blair so we ask you to go to cnnheros.com and nominate someone you know who's making a terrific difference. my next guest yuz pushed
into the spotlight, never assumed he would be there but he was because he presided over the casey anthony spectacle. the trial. he is. judge belvin perry. i'm reunited with you after a couple of years. we're going to ask you a little bit about reading the verdict and the new project you have coming. ♪ you're not made of money, so don't overpay for boat insurance.
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talk about a guy who can light up a room the minute he walks in, judge belvin perry. you might remember him as the man in charge of the casey anthony murder trial. that not guilty verdict stunned a lot of people. guess what? it even stunned him. we watched his no nonsense approach on the bench day after day week after week as he dealt with the courtroom antics from all angles. >> i want to ask both sides to turn around and look at that clock back there and tell me what time it is. to be quite frank, both sides
have engaged in what i call game playing. okay? and this is not a game. you would think that this would have grown old by now but i guess some things never change. >> and the good judge is kind enough to join me now live from orlando. nice to see you again. you and i sfent many a day together and many a lunch hour together in that restaurant across from the courthouse. how are you doing? good. >> i remember saying to you this guy should be on tv and that may be where you're headed. what do you have coming up? >> well, i have two good people who are shopping to see if there is some interest in doing a show. i would love to do a show. i think a show with me on it
would provide two things. it would provide entertainment and would also provide education on the law. i think there is always a need for folks to know about the law and to be entertained. make it fun. >> i hear you. well you're the guy to do it. i was entertained in that court. i couldn't believe you had such a wonder way of dealing with what was really awful stuff and also annoying stuff that was going on. let me ask you about the moment when you read the verdict before he all got to hear it. first thing that went through your mind. well the first thing i wanted to be sure what i was reading was what i was reading and as i said, i was shocked. i was surprised. but i knew that could be a possibility, like in all cases, that a jury can view things
totally different than what nonparticipants can view a trial. what you have to realize is that people take sides, they listen to things that don't come into evidence and they look at things through a different lens, a different filter. and evidently the jury did that. and they made a decision base upon their view of the evidence. >> let me ask you this. i know that it was a massive frustration for you, the sbroo media attention on your case. i know you had to readjust a lot of issues with how to release juror's names because of the media attention. do you have anything you can tell me as ho why there is this immense insatiable thirst for coverage of cases of people like casey and jodi arias and amanda knox. the list goes on. why do you think this is
happening? >> well, we have, number one, a 24-hour news cycle. number two, whether we like it or not, court proceedings now begin to dominate our lives. we are a nation built upon the rule of law. and with access to courtrooms by cameras, it has basically fuelled the thirst for kormg and people like to see its democracy in action. >> i tell you what. i only have one beef with you about spending 80-some odd days in your courtroom. i worked 20 hours a day and i was very sleepy and you had your officers kick us off if we nodded off. those side bars are long and it was really hard to stay awake. next time i'm in your courtroom, go easy on me. >> i will personally give you a pass so they won't boot you out if you go to sleep.
>> appreciate it. good luck with the show. you're going down the right road if judge judy has anything to say about it. man, she makes a lot of money. thank you for being on the show. >> thank you. >> it is good to see you again. judge belvin perry joining us from orlando. despite all of the criticism of the nas web the fbi director say it is needed. it's needed to prevent another terrorist attack. >> it's understandable and necessary if you want to protect the united states. >> the good director sitting down with your joe johns next. y- that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently.
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leading the fbi since before 9/11 and now he's stepping down, but not before speaking with joe johns. >> we're coming up on the anniversary of 9/11. we've had embassies closed and reopened. are we bracing for imminent attack? >> i don't think so. we had to monitor the situation carefully. we had reports of an attack on the embassy in the middle east perhaps a month ago. we took precautions. by that i mean the administration and the state
department. it may be that's postponed. we're monitoring the situation carefully to determine if that's the case. i don't think we see an iminnoceimminent attack. >> if we had the kind of intelligence we were collecting through the nsa before september 11, do you think 9/11 would have been prevented? >> i think there's a good chance we could have prevented part of it. i think we would have a much better chance of identifying those individuals. >> by this mass collection of information? >> by the various programs put in place since then and part of it is not just the focus of those perhaps on identifying communications of
would-terrorists but sharing that along the law inforcement and intelligence communities. it's the ability to share the information that's made a dra mat change to identify and stop plots. >> so much more on cnn.com. two women brought together by a near tragedy meeting face-to-face on cnn. don't miss this. it's next. ns. nacho pans. glass on floors. daily chores. for the little mishaps you feel use neosporin to help you heal. it kills germs so you heal four days faster. neosporin. use with band-aid brand bandages. neosporin. ♪ (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go,
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happy to end our show on a positive night. last night anderson cooper had a opportunity to talk to that hero bookkeeper who talked a suspect into surrendering. she gave anderson the exclusive interview. the best part with the reunion with that 911 dispatcher who was her lifeline on the phone as everything unfolded. >> i have somebody i'd like for you to meet. >> okay. >> this is kendra mccray. >> how are you doing? >> good. >> we made it. >> we did. oh, my god. >> kendra, what do you think of job that she did? >> she is a true hero.
she missed her calling. she should have been a counselor or something. you did so great. >> thank you. >> i've never had a call where the caller was so calm and so confident in what you were saying and so personalable. it was great. >> how did you know what to say to him? how did you know the right things to say? >> to be honest with you i didn't. while i was there and she was talking to me and he was saying things to me, i was playing on the inside of myself and saying god, what do i say now? what do i do now? >> do you still feel compassion for him? >> i do. i would like to visit him. i would like to contact him and see how he's doing. not end the relationship there because i know it's beyond what he sees. he's a hurting soul.
if any kind of way i can help him and allow him to get on the right path, we all go through something. i believe god gives us all a purpose in life. i believe he has a purpose in destiny for that young man also. >> i want to have you on my speed dial. when ever i'm down, i want to talk to you. you're great. >> thank you. >> i want you to call me sweetie and tell me everything's going to be okay. >> it's going to be okay. >> i'm going to be my ring tone saying everything will be okay. >> it's going to be okay. it is. >> you have been through not only in your own lifer and personal things devastation but this situation. you've survived unimaginable things. >> yes. i have this new thing that i say to myself. it's called push past the pain. my pastor's wife did that teaching in a women's ministry
last year. she titled the message push past the pain. in spite of what adversaries you go through in life, continue to push. every time things come on, i always say push past the pain. >> you can watch that entire interview tonight. a special version at 11:00. "around the world" starts now. when i think the american people expect me to do as president is to think through what we do from the perspective of what is in our long time national interest. >> egypt, syria and afghanistan, president obama sitting down with for a one-on-one