tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN November 10, 2013 7:00am-8:01am PST
that's what makes america so great. we don't forget those that fought for us. >> certainly bob dole has not. on another subject, if you would like to hear how bob dole feels about ted cruz, chris christie, hillary clinton, go to our website. thank you for joining us. >> this is gps, the global public square. welcome to you around the united states and around the world. we have an important show for you today starting with the failure to reach agreement on a nuclear deal with iran. despite the presence top diplomats in geneva this weekend. why were they unable to make a deal? would it be sellable back home in iran, in the united states, in france? and then an assassination. this man, the head of the
pakistani taliban, was killed last week by an american drone strike just when the taliban was supposed to sit down to talk peace. was the killing a good negotiating strategy, we'll discuss. and have the most recent rev revelations from edward snowden. should they? we have two experts give us different views. the prime minister says yes and he did it. finally a tv topic. why one nation spent nine hours glued to the tube to watch a sweater being made. but first, here's my take. it's difficult to know what to make of the failure to arrive at an agreement between the west
and iran. high level talks have ended. negotiations will resume at a lower level in ten days. secretary of state john kerry's comments seem the most sensible. it was always going to be hard to arrive at a deal with iran when the mistrust was so deep and had gone on for so long. but what was remarkable was the tone of the negotiators as they broke up. both the iranians and the main western negotiator from the europe union were positive and constructive believing that much progress had been made. there were voices that were much less positive. israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu criticize d what he described as the deal of the search. iran was going to get everything it wanted in return for nothing. the other critic of the deal appears to be french foreign minister. france's hardline position allowed washington to look reasonable though for some it proved no matter what position
the united states takes, you can count on france to try to sabotage it. the basic agreement that might have been inked was that iran would temporarily freeze its nuclear program including its e uranium enrichments for relief from the west's suctianctions. the key is what kind of sanction relief were iranians going to get. the answer is clear. not much. the obama administration was not proposing that any of the major sanctions against iran be lifted or even suspended. those are all passed about i congress and couldn't be lifted easily any way. it was proposing to take pretty minor steps. europe has more flexibility on sanctions but from what we heard those countries were proposing relief of very small kinds. now, if the argument is that
iran should make significant concessions but that the west should make none at all, that's not negotiations. that's a requirement that the other side surrender which makes one wonder, do the critics of this negotiating process want a better deal or do they really want no deal at all so that it opens up another path to deal with the problem, which is war. in that case, the danger for those critics was not that geneva negotiations were failing but that they were succeeding. let's get started. you just heard my take. let's bring in some experts. ken pollack is a former cia analyst and a staffer at the national security council and author of a new book "unthinkable." joe is the author of a
forthcoming book "nuclear nightmares securing the world before it's too late." joe, let me start with you. do you think there's a deal on hand here? what did you read out of what happened? >> we are very close, fareed. i thought your opening comments were right on the mark. we have seen the normalization of u.s. and iranian dialogue. we now take it for granted that the secretary of state should talk to iran's foreign minister. that didn't happen until last september. they spent more time in the last 24 hours than they have in 34 years. the outlines of the deal are clear. iran will take initial steps to freeze its program in place as you said we'll take very minor steps to release some financial assets and it will be done in a phased agreement over the next six or seven months. each step building on the last. we're very, very close. they come back again in ten days. i expect we'll get a deal very
soon. >> ken, are you as optimistic? >> i certainly share joe's hope this deal can be brought about and both of your expectation that this is a good deal. but i think the problems that have arisen make me more skeptical and more concerned maybe a better way to put it. the french objections don't seem to be terribly meaningful as you pointed out these are things that should be dealt with in a final status agreement between the two of them. it's not really clear why the french decide to make an issue of this now. that makes me a little more concerned than i was going into this about how hard it will be to get it. >> let me ask you to explain why you think the big obstacle that's being talked about isn't an obstacle without getting too wonky. there's one reactor in iraq. the reason people worry that if a reactor gets completed, it's a problem and it could be released
into the atmosphere. why do you think that's not a problem? the french is saying we can't allow them to keep working on this reactor because once you reach a critical stage there's no going back. >> it's a problem but not a problem for three or four years. the reactor is behind schedule. it won't come online until the end of next year. then you put the fuel in it and some plutonium is produced but that takes at least another year and then you have to take that fuel out and reprocess it and iran doesn't have a reprocessing facility. it's a problem three or four years down the road. in this interim step, iran was apparently agreeing to suspend construction of this reactor and so it's a problem you can deal with but it has to be dealt with later. let's freeze the key parts of the program now. stop them from enriching uranium to 20%. lengthen the fuse and any breakouts. >> ken, what about the other country other than france that is clearly objecting?
israel. what do you think that tells us? >> it's not clear exactly what the israelis are doing. we should hope what they are doing is simply trying to play bad cop to get the best deal possible. prime minister netanyahu's rhetoric has been so far off to the other side that it raises the question that perhaps he is trying to blow up the negotiations. perhaps he doesn't want a deal. that would be enormously damaging. if at the end of the day we don't get a deal between the international community and iran and israel is the culprit that backfires against israel and the united states and very much in favor of iran's hardliners. exactly the people that netanyahu shouldn't be trying to empower. >> joe, what do you think about the french? ken was saying there is some part the french has taken a harder line position on the iranian nuclear program. puzzling because with everything else in the middle east they
outflank the united states by being more soft. what do you think is going on here? >> the other members were furious. you have to understand everybody else was in agreement and even the french negotiators were in agreement until the foreign minister arrived and threw a spanner in the works. some suspect this has commercial motivations. france is trying to position itself for lucrative contracts with the saudis and other gulf states by showing opposition to iran. some think it's a play for attention. the reason i'm optimistic is underlying it the core strategic objectives of iran and united states and other states line up. we're moving toward a deal. there is a strategic shift that's taken place in iran. we have a secretary of state and administration that's ready to take advantage of that. i'm hopeful we can work it out and take out the overload the french want to put on the card and come up with a clean, initial first step. >> ken, final thought on the
final monkey wrench which is congress. congress has to pass sanctions. it seems to be going in the opposite direction of putting more onerous requirements on iran. >> i would look at this in particular from the iranian perspective. ultimately what the congress is doing is simply putting another brick in the wall of sanctions. it's not terribly meaningful in and of itself. across the ocean you have a lot of courage in being willing to pursue talks and is taking a big risk in terms of his own political position. he's got to look to barack obama to be his partner and to be willing to sell any reasonable deal to the american congress. i think so far the administration is saying don't worry. no matter what the congress does, no matter how many additional sanctions they pass, if we get the deal, i'll sell it to congress. so far he's never been willing to do that and take congress on when it comes to iran sanctions.
>> when you look at this, take ken's point. if you were to get a deal of some kind that the international community could live with, that obama administration could live with, what happens in congress? will congress undo the sanctions because only congress can do it. >> undoing sanctions takes a longer time than putting them on. you'll always have a political opposition and ideological opposition to this president. the president has enormous waiver authority. can he suspend sanctions for a long time. many sanction relief we talk about in the initial step are things only the president has control over freeing up certain frozen iranian assets for example. once you get a deal that gains momentum that you show that you have actually stopped the iranian threat and deal in place is better than no deal at all and preferable to going to war, i think you'll see support among the leading members of congress build.
you already see members that are skittish on this taking some reassurance by the direction the negotiations are going. i'm hopeful those leaders will stop new sanctions over the coming months to give diplomatic thoughts a chance. >> do you agree that if obama stands up, he'll be able to move congress? >> i think joe is right. if we get a good deal on the table it will be difficult for the congress to turn it down because as you both point out, the alternatives are much worse. >> thank you very much. lots more on the show. up next, pakistan. a drone strike killed a top ti l taliban commander but pakistanis are very angry about his death.
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[thinking] i'm still working. he's retired. i hope he's saving. i hope he saved enough. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. whether you're just starting your 401(k) or you are ready for retirement, we'll help you get there. ten days ago a reported drone strike killed the leader of the pakistani taliban. his group claimed responsibility for the attempted times square bombing and the suicide attack
that killed seven americans including five cia officers in coast afghanistan. the group also known as the ttp has wreaked havoc in pakistan itself killing thousands of civilians. should his demise be welcomed? not according to angry leaders in pakistan and afghanistan who criticized the timing of the strikes which came as they prepared for peace talks with the taliban. let's get right to it. are drones helping or hurting? pakistan's ambassador to the united states has a new book out about relations between the two countries called "magnificent delusions." and james was chief deputy to secretary of state hillary clinton and now dean of the maxwell school at syracuse university and jim, let me start with you. does it make sense to assassinate somebody who wanted to head peace talks to try to find some kind of political settlement in afghanistan? >> well, as you suggested, i
think that he was somebody that the u.s. has been concerned about for a long time. he was directly involved in the attack on the cia base. his organization was involved in the attack in new york. so the united states has a very fundamental interest in making sure that these threats don't continue and i think that this has been a long standing interest of the united states clearly an opportunity seems to have arisen and i think it's quite understandable from a national security perspective why the administration would want to take advantage of that. >> you were involved as was jim in the very arduous process of trying to get peace talks started with the taliban. on again and off again. it took a lot to get them going. from your perspective, assassinating one of the guys who was going to be on the other end of the table presumably does it make sense? >> at the end of the day this was a long table and he was very
far away. he just didn't see he was going to come to the table. there were no ongoing talks. i think that what we are seeing is typical pakistani political reaction because the people sympathize with negotiatiproces negotiating with the taliban. at that time one time you may recall that pakistani military and intelligence service used to wonder why americans were not striking the ttp. i think that this is a time then we need to look at the more fundamental problem in that region, which is rulers and leaders who want to be close to the united states, who want to get involved in negotiating processes to deal with regional situations but do not want to tell the truth to their own people. >> jim, let me press this issue. if you're going to try to get a
political settlement in afghanistan, clearly at the center of the problem was the pakistani taliban. that is people based in pakistan who could cross border and make trouble in afghanistan and make it difficult to secure afghanistan and then retreat across an international border to a safe haven. negotiating with the pakistani taliban was a crucial part of creating a settlement in afghanistan. has that process been derailed by this assassination? >> first of all, i don't think it was derailed. if there's an agreement, it's not because of the decision of any individual. it would be because all of thes ors and groups recognize that finding a political agreement is necessary. so i think the notion that the presence or absence will make a difference in terms of this. i think it's important that the message go out that a murderer who deliberately killed
americans can't find sanctuary because he indicates a vague interest in peace talks. if afghan taliban and pakistan taliban are serious about reaching of political resolution and coming into politics that they'll come in because that's their interest and not because they somehow find it as a way to get kleclemency for past acts o murder. >> there is hostility to these kind of targeted attacks. these guys are terrorists and have killed more pakistanis than they have killed americans. why is it that -- explain for us is anti-americanism so strong that even if america does something that actually gets rid of a terrorist who is killing pakistani civilians, people assume it must be a bad thing? >> fareed, if you read my book you will find the first anti-american demonstration was not a reaction to drone strikes,
it tack place in may 1948. pakistan's leaders have consistently negotiated with the united states by riling of the pakistani public against the u.s. and telling american leaders that i am your best hope of keeping an unruly country under control and that process has not stopped so if the pakistani public is simply not informed or educated about terrorism, the way it ought to be, there will be confusion. >> where does this leave us? are these protests from the pakistani government pro forma and in a few weeks we'll be back to normal? >> i think we will be back to some kind of a relationship. look, the prime minister's visit to united states recently was a third attempt at reset between pakistan and the united states since 9/11. i don't think he or his government want that attempt to completely fail. i think they will come back to talk to the u.s. because at the
end of the day negotiating with the united states is far more important for pakistan's leaders than negotiating with the taliban. and when they do negotiate with the taliban, they will have to have a plan for what they want at the end of it. do they want taliban to prevail in pakistan or do they really want to take pakistan into the 21st century? >> fascinating conversation. we'll be back in touch. up next, what in the world has the united nations come up with a way to end wars? it sounds too good to be true. i will explain. vo: two years of grad school. 20 years with the company. thousands of presentations. and one hard earned partnership. it took a lot of work to get this far.
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bunch. these guys are different. they're part of the u.n.'s new intervention force brigade unlike the rest of the blue helmets who are only allowed to act in defense as peacekeepers, these soldiers are on the offense with the authorization to hunt and attack enemy forces. this is a first. historic change for the u.n. and new strategy in the democratic republican of congo where more than 5 million people have died since 1998 amidst a complex civil war. over the last 18 months, government troops have fought a rebel group. they were encroaching deeper into the country and had taken over the city. the peacekeepers were powerless to intervene. they had no mandate to engage. that changed in march when the u.n. gave 3,000-strong force the
green light to attack. the balance of the fight shifted and this week the rebels surrendered. could this be a broader turning point? could success in congo be replicated elsewhere? what affect would u.n. peacekeepers in in syria for example? it's not as simple as it sounds. consider the makeup of these peace keeping forces to start. there were 97,000 u.n. troops, police and military experts. it's not a permanent force. personnel are loaned from various nations. in return, the u.n. gives these nations a standard rate of $1,028 per soldier per month. for many developing countries including india, this is several times more than what a soldier gets paid by the government so if you're a poor country
contributing troops to the u.n. is good business. look at the other side of the ledger. according to the u.n., the total peace keeping budget comes to $7.5 billion. more than a quarter of that is funded by american taxpayers. that's more than the next three top contributors combined, japan, france and germany. china and russia are in sixth and eight places respectively. each funder has its own agenda. for example, if the u.n. would propose an aggressive role in syria, china and certainly russia would likely oppose it or take another example. u.n. peace keeping forces could never police parts of the area because it's a reminder that everything at the u.n. has to be sanctioned by its member states. u.n. cannot act without political will, resources and mandates from these countries and their national interest will
trump any broader international interest. a 2005 study compared nation building operations that were led by the united states with those led by the united nations. of the eight american led missions, only four were considered a success. germany, japan, bosnia and kosovo and there were four failures. the u.n. had a better track record. seven of eight missions brought peace. the u.n. tends to get into a situation when major powers have reached some kind of agreement. still, it's worth giving some credit to these troops and hope that they will succeed in the democr democratic republic of congo where they now are. edward snowden said he's being vilified when he go the united states very good.
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the storm may have killed as many as 10,000 people. the philippine red cross estimates at least 1,200 people have been killed. the typhoon has destroyed hundreds of thousands of homes and left residents with little food and water. police in the houston area are searching for two suspects after a shooting at that left two people dead and 22 others injured. the shooting occurred late saturday at a house party. the house was filled with 100 people. injuries ranged from critical to minor. keep your eye on the sky for the next day or so. a european satellite is tumbling into the earth's atmosphere. no one knows exactly where it will land but the ocean is the best bet. if the satellite or parts of it happen to land in an area near you, you don't have to worry about contamination from nuclear power. it was powered by solar panels and a lithium ion battery.
those are your top stories. "reliable sources" are at the top of the hour. now back to fareed zakaria gps. this week germany published a peace from edward snowden, an open letter. he says he should not be vilified by americans since his leaks have led to calls for reform of the intelligence agencies. in recent weeks as revelations about the enormous extent about nsa spying rolled out, i have noticed a sea change in attitudes about snowden. in conversations i had and opinion pieces i read, many smart people believe that snowden leaks were valuable. one of the smart people is the washington columnist for "the financial times." wrote a piece this week saying snowden has done us a favor and also joining us former deputy
homeland security adviser, former deputy assistant to president george w. bush and now a contributing editor at bloomberg tv. i guess that he doesn't see snowden as doing us any favors. start us off by telling us what you think is the principle benefit of what snowden did in a sense of i understand the revelations shed a light on this but what are we doing wrong that needs to be fixed? >> there are two principle benefits. he has shown how porous the system is. he's shown if 29 year old working in hawaii who is a high school dropout can download this kind of stuff then thousands of other people will -- perhaps tens of thousands will also. that's useful from a national security point of view. he's educated us about the degree to which our lives are monitored chronicled, stored up
in clouds, cross tabulated. some have been surprised by it. my point really is whatever snowden's personal motives, whether he's a saint or a criminal or a more complex mix of the two, the net effect of this i think will stimulate a debate that we need to have at this time of changing technology. the intelligence agencies are going to do what they can do. that's in effect what he's taught us. the only constraint is what they can do. it's a huge service for us to be aware to the extent that it's going on. >> on the specifics of the wisdom, i can understand the nsa doing all type of things analyzing data to find terrorists in europe.
should it use its most aggressive methods to tap the phone of the chancellor of germany when the kind of intelligence it's getting there is germany going to bail out greece and questions which you can tap the phone but you could also ask them you would get 80% or 90% of the answer. how should we think about that issue? >> that particular operation if we look at it based on what we know is imprudent. it was done because someone said this is a low priority intelligence requirement to collect on allied talks or whatever. the nsa operatives figured out how to do it. it was legal for them to do it so they did it. despite being legal, it was imprudent because the risk to bilateral relationship and to the governance of the industry and to telecommunication companies outweighed any benefit we can get.
>> do you think there should be greater constraints on the nsa in terms of what it can do in gathering data from private citizens and gathering data from leaders? >> you have to separate it from legal constraint and policy constraint. we hope it doesn't change. i think on the policy side what the administration does within the law and where it decides to put its priorities, that part needs to be tightened up and strengthened. >> for prudential reasons, the risk to reward ratio with an allied government -- >> i think that we can argue went too far. you are making a larger argument that the prospects of these intelligent agencies being able to tap phones, analyze e-mails is frightening. >> it is frightening. it might well be necessary. it is necessary. but in a google and facebook and others increasingly depicted as
the way of america by competitors. a chinese telecom company -- >> operates with the government when it is asked to. >> it's seen as a chinese state. >> google, facebook, twitter, remember the business model. instead of article 2 of the constitution as legal basis, in terms of service agreement, which no one reads, it becomes the basis of a billion dollar business. so there is irony for the chairman of google to criticize this when his entire business consists of being voluntarily turning off data which then is data mind. >> do you think this is a turning point that you've been in washington and you were at the white house, do you think that there is now going to be much whether it's the courts where people say courts that
oversee nsa which have granted every request the nsa ever made of it, do you think all of that is going to change? >> i think it will change in a global level. i think this is a very big deal. we have had since really the bedawn of the internet age, the u.s. companies are most competitive in a global economy and we are still the hub of many data exchanges that are occurring around the world. i think this event, these disclosures, will accelerate a shift away from that to a more multipolar internet. >> gentlemen, pleasure to have you on. thank you so much. up next, a special way to transform a struggling city. the answer involves using bright colors of paint. i'll explain when i speak with the prime minister of albany next. [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, we know in the cyber world, threats are always evolving. at first, we were protecting networks. then, we were protecting the transfer of data.
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france. he has a different position. in june he was elected prime minister of the country. i want to talk to you about what you did as mayor. i think it's a fascinating story. a lot of problems, a lot of crime and you decided to solve it by painting. what did you do? explain. >> when i was elected with a very big majority, i had to face a high expectation with no budget. and so i decided to start and paint the buildings, the old buildings that were everyone trying to get his own space after the change so breaking windows in first floor to transform living rooms in flower
shops or bars breaking ceilings up to have an additional room transforming balconies into space so all of this full of dust and gray and been painted and turned to be really u-turn from a city where everyone got lost in dust and waste in a city of hope. >> explain why painting the buildings orange, what did that do? >> it was, like, a wake-up call for people because when i was elected practically the municipality was an institution, people did not pay taxes and
didn't want to listen about any regulation because from a very frozen society where everyone wanted to redefine its own identity was kind of very, very difficult. trying to bring people in was not through words but through giving them signs that everyone can enjoy but also should participate. >> when you first tried to paint the buildings these different colors, the eu tried to stop you because they said it didn't conform to eu standards. >> it came where it was a project of fixing some sidewalks and some lighting in the entrance row of tirana with eu
money. i then decided to paint the facades with strong colors that were a wake-up call and when the first buildings started to be painted, i had a call from the guy who was in charge and he said, mr. mayor, this is a catastrophe. everybody is stopping. it's a catastrophe. i have this french man supervisor of eu just screaming at me. i don't understand what he's saying but he's very nervous. i went there and it was like a really big car accident in the middle of the street so everybody watching this facade of orange some laughing and some screaming and saying what's happening and this guy says this is scandal. this is a horrible color that is a scandal. how one can stand this. i said, okay. we want to do it. they said, no. stop it.
it's out of standards. i said do you see anything in eu standards now? he said, no, this is with our money. if you want to stop it, i'll make a press conference and say that you are acting like the commission that decided what color the sky and what color is land and what color is skin of people. and then he said we negotiate. i said every negotiation is great. every consensus is great. the effect was fantastic. people started to participate and reshape their shops and everything so they felt safer. it was a beautiful thing. >> there's this theory in the united states called a broken window theory. you must know it. you go into a crime ridden neighborhood and first thing you do is fix the broken windows and that makes people have a sense of order and then they start reclaiming it. is that what you did?
>> my experience showed me very clearly that beauty is much more intimidating if i may say that brutalit brutality. what you can do with greenery and color and public space and law enforcement in a neighborhood where people have nothing to lose. >> mr. prime minister, pleasure to have you on. >> thank you. >> up next, the key to a tv rating success in norway. not gps sadly. instead about woolly sweaters. i'll explain. my customers can shop around. but it doesn't usually work that way with health care. with unitedhealthcare, i get information on quality rated doctors, treatment options and cost estimates, so we can make better health decisions. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. at uwe know you can't afford wrong turns on the road to your future. that's why we build tools like our career guidance system. it's kind of like gps, you know, for your career.
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the european central bank cut its benchmark interest rate to a record low of 0.25% on thursday in a bid to inject vigor into the european economy. meanwhile, the united states federal reserve target interest rate remains at an all-time low at 0.25%. that brings me to my question of the week. what is the all-time highest interest rate for the u.s. federal reserve. is it a, 8%, b, 12%, c, 15%, or
d 20%? stay tuned. we'll tell you the correct answer. my book of the week is actually a magazine. the "atlantic technology" issue is great. look at one on artificial intelligence and why computers are making us lose valuable skills. think of gps and your ability to navigate as one example. also a list of the 50 greatest inventions since the wheel. the last part is a bit gimmicky but you will find yourself arguing with it and now for the last look. in norway, where the divorce rate is 40%, one official has some advice for married couples. do as tina fey and steve did in the movie "date night." it ended with car chases and mob
confrontations about you they weren't home on the couch. 1.3 million norwegians were home watching a smash hit tv show tuning in for over 12 uninterrupted hours for a national knitting evening. yes. knitting. so-called slow tv is huge here. whether it's seven hour train rides, a full day of salmon fishing, 12 hours of burning wood or 30 hour interviews. more than 50% of the population once tuned in for a ship's 134-hour coastline cruise. the knitting evening did have a dramatic twist. after hours of knitting, they attempted to break the world time record for producing a sweater. starting from the very beginning the shearing of a sheep. ♪ >> they unfortunately missed the record books but 8 1/2 hours
later, a sweater. one company plans to bring slow tv to the united states. perhaps it will be a hit. ♪ >> compared with 21 hours of senator ted cruz reading "green eggs and ham" discussions about wool seem absolutely spe spellbinding. the correct answer to our gps challenge question was d, 20%. to combat double digit inflation, the chairman of the federal reserve paul volcker briefly raised interest rates to 20% in the early 1980s. this contributed to the country's plunge into recession but of course its subsequent recovery. the historical average in the u.s. has been around 6%. thanks for being part of my program this week. i'll see you next week. stay tuned for "reliable sources." for a week