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tv   Crossfire  CNN  November 12, 2013 3:30pm-4:01pm PST

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listen to this -- >> we need to look at the political reality. we need to be open to constructive changes to make this law work better. >> i personally believe, even if it takes a change in the law, the president should honor the commitment the federal government made to those people. >> what makes bill clinton's statement so shocking is it comes from someone who's talked long and thus yasically in obama's favor, and in all fairness he still favors obama care, but now he's admitting that this president has a big problem with his credibility. and remember, this is a guy who knows all about credibility problems. >> well, putting aside your comment about president clinton having credibility problems. we know what happened the last time people went after president clinton on credibility problems. they lefte lost credibility. you left out that premise that
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this country is better off without obama care. i appreciate the outrage about the impact of this health care law. republicans have no idea how to fix it, nor do they want to fix it. nor do they have any workable ideas of their own. first question in the crossfire tonight, weekly standard editor bill crystal. and tom hartman. the first question to you, bill, i appreciate the outrage, as i said to newt earlier, but this is baloney. it's disingenuous, could you name one person who is truly interested in making constructive changes as senator durbin said, as president clinton said, to this health care law to make it work better. can you name one republican who's interested in making it better? >> it won't fix it, because it's unfixable. but it will patch the hole in the roof and it gives us more
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time to build new foundations for a better health care system. >> go ahead. >> except that fred upton fundamentally opposes obama care. >> what about the piece of legislation that -- >> it almost doesn't -- >> are you for that? -- >> the point is, president clinton has said we should change, deck dick durbin says i should change. medicare came out, it has been changed hundreds of times. >> did people millions of people lose something with medicare? >> they lost their freedom. >> are you in favor for this for people who have had their insurance canceled? >> canceled? you're talking about the 5% of the market. >> are you interested in helping those 5%? >> those aren't cancellations.
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those are bad product recalls. it's like cars they discovered the master cylinder doesn't work, being recalled and replaced. >> you seriously think all those plans that have within canceled -- >> yes. >> democratic states approved these plans. >> if it wasn't fred upton. if it was coming out of a democrat and they were saying let's tweak this bill, i would be for it. >> many democrats are going to vote for this. >> if they do, then it will be a really -- >> your standard is, if a democrat says it, it's good, and if the republican says it, it's bad? >> as long as the republicans are on record as saying -- >> both you and stephanie have this nice little dance. the fact is, if you want to fix the bill, you are inevidentably going to have to have support from people who opposed bill. or you wait two years and have a
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an even bigger majority. right now you have manchin, sheehan, you have durbin, there's a growing number of democrats who favor obama care in general but who are saying this is a disaster. let me share with you one poll, quinnipiac came out today and said that the deadline for signing up for coverage without facing a penalty is march 31. would you support or oppose extending this deadline. 73% of the american people now support extending it. now the administration, that's not just, you know, some small clique of republicans. >> there's two really important points here. when republicans talk about extending it, they're talking about extending it for year, year and a half, two years, which would be enough to kill it. a lot of people are saying extend it for a month or two until you can get the website fixed. there's a whole world of difference in this thing.
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>> i want to ask you a question. the president has said since we passed the law in 2009, 2010, rather. and he has said repeatedly and democrats have said along with him that we want to implement the law and make changes as we go. any law like this requires technical fixes. it requires legislative fissixe. we've done it throughout history. my question to you, i have a two part question for you. number one, how are republicans going to make a fix to the law and control the people who shut down the government over repealing the law? you've got two different republican parties fighting against each other. how are you going to control those people who want to get rid of it? >> i don't think i can control the people. but i had an argument with conservative republicans on the hill today who said why don't we let the whole thing crash. it's their plan, it's their horrible plan. it will be more obvious to
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people a year from now. those tea party guy, they are going to vote friday to do something they don't really like doing, which is fixing an underlying piece of legislation because they are responsible. and they are getting phone calls from their constituents in arkansas, and saying i am losing my health care insurance. could you at least, while the mess is under way, could you help me for the next year? so they're doing the right thing. some are contrary to their own instincts. so they're behaving responsibility. and i know the serious democrats like you two would applaud them for acting responsibly on friday. >> you're absolutely characterizing it and i would applaud that. we might be seeing for the first time literally, since the beginning of the obama presidency, when meetings were held about how do we keep this guy from ever having a
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successful presidency, we might be seeing for the very first time, bringing together. the democrats are going to govern. none of us have read the bill here at the table. >> well, i v i've actually looked at the bill. it's a very simple bill, actually. i think it's two pages. it lets insurers continue to offer the plans they're offering this year and next year. i look forward to democrats joining mr. upton. i look forward to the obama administration supporting this bill. i remain opposed to obama care, but i think we should also help people. >> some of those bills that are available right now are patently fraud length. they're these $40 a month programs that people when they actually get sick discover they're going to be $40,000 down. >> i'm fascinated by the elitism of folks here in washington who explain that the insurance commissioner in ca kpa is stupid. the insurance commissioner in new york is stupid, the
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insurance commissioner in illinois is stupid because of language you just used, they're allowing fraud length policies. it would be like saying to them, i'm not going to allow you to drive a toyota camry or ford, because those are infear or. i have decided the standard. >> are you mischaracterizing it. if you wanted to make that parallel, you would say i don't think it's appropriate for you to drive the toyota camry, it doesn't have brakes. in fact they were never even installed. the insurance industry is the wild, wild west. so insurance commissioners have dealt with mostly complaints of fraud. but legislatures have allowed basically people, a hume caveat emptor marketplace. >> and most of the insurance
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commissioners are helping to implement this law. you mentioned california. the law is working pretty well in california. so i don't think that you should mischaracterize the insurance commissioner. >> the california, there are huge fans of the law. and guess what, they had to extend the three months already, because the blues were in such panic. 300,000 people were about to lose coverage. the law is falling apart. >> the, first of all, the law is not falling apart. it hasn't even been implemented. january 1 is when those plans go into effect. however, president's already extended the deadline for enrollment. there are legislative proposals in the senate and, you know, less reliable ones in the house to look at extending the deadline. that doesn't mean that the law is a disaster. if you want to make reasonable, honest fixes to this law, that's a debate we should have.
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but that's not the debate you want to have. >> the position i had a couple months ago is that you guys are crazy. your line was this law passed, it was upheld by the supreme court. the voters liked president obama in 2012, shut up. >> i didn't say shut up to you. but my point is a month ago we were debating the government shutdown. >> honestly, just leaving aside what you think, analytically, it's been a big move, because democrats were in a better position when they could say, we've done it, let it go into effect. don't do anything for now. now they're acknowledging that things have to be changed. and i think this is going to open a broader debate which i welcome, i think which you welcome too. >> next, i will show you, bill, how republican billionaires are trying to get unsuspecting young
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♪ ♪ welcome back. in the crossfire tonight, tom hartman and bill crystal. republicans have tried to repeal or dismantle obama care 46 times and they lost. they took it to the supreme court, and they lost. it was the central debate in a presidential campaign that they lost. now they're supposedly interested in fixing it. so what's their latest strategy though? tailgating. a group founded by the koch brothers gives away pizza,
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misinformation, distortioning about what young people's options are under the health care law. this is telling them how to trade away their health options and security for pizza and beer. so my question to you is, are the koch brothers on the same page as you and other republicans who want to fix this law? is this a change in strategy? >> i'd like to repeal it down the road. i don't think it's going to happen while president obama is president. but look, i think young people should get health insurance. a lot of people did buy health insurance and were responsible. a story mentioned a young man in washington who had health insurance and got a cancellation notice. republicans are trying to help young people keep the health insurance they have. >> we could go back and forth for young people for health insurance under the affordable care act. they can stay on their parents' plans until they're 26.
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half of them will pay less than $50. two-thirds of them will pay less than a hundred dollars. but my bigger question is, there is something politically going on with the republican party. the strategy that you've been using hasn't worked. you took a big hit over shutting down the federal government, over defunding obama care. you're behind on the generic ballot for 2014 by up to 8 points. and that's i think by the latest fox poll. so take that for what it's worth. can you tell me about what is actually going on in the republican party and their approach to the affordable care act? >> i'm very confident that obama care will help republicans in 2014, not hurt them. i was talking to a young woman who was running in new york, she's 29 years old. her folks have a small business. they got a notice. they're going to have to -- they give health insurance to their
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employees. the employees like it a lot. they have like a 30 or 40% premium increase coming because of requirements in the affordable care act. and they're going to have to either take it out of their salaries. she's going around and telling the story. she's running against an incouple bent democrat up there, and she says voters up there are responding to her. and certainly, the short term, fix this problem. i'm not for changing it for political reasons, but i'm pretty confident the politics of obama care will be good for republicans. >> it's been interesting to watch a step at a time. we started with the website fiasco. now we're into the weather we need to postpone the date by which you have to do something. but the fact is two of the most interesting things we've developed in the last couple weeks is there's a marriage penalty that goes up to $10,000
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in certain circumstances for being part of the system. and that people, specific cases who for example have cancer are being told they can't go to the cancer center and the cancer specialist they want to. isn't this bill ultimate lay going to have to be amended in a number of places? not just in terms of postponing the mandate? but as we discover things -- i don't think anybody in this city knew that there was a $10,000 marriage penalty buried in obama care. and i doubt if it was put in there by design. >> andoubt that president obama would call it a marriage penalty. >> what would you call it? >> i don't know the details of it. >> if there are two people who are 64 years old and they get married. they each earn $30,000, their net loss of subsidy is $10,000. >> so what you -- >> you're supporting the subsidy now? you're showing outrage over them not being able to get the subsidy? >> i'm saying when you design a bill which sends a signal that we may be able to get divorced
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in able to afford health care. nancy pelosi's line that we have to fas to pass it in order to find out what's in it is becoming reality. >> this sounds like the they're the one. i don't trust those numbers. i think there's a larger issue. you introduced the koch brothers as republicans. they are libertarians more than republicans. and republicans have supported them in this country. this baffles me. since the founding of the country, the wigs and the federalists have supported the idea of public fire departments. ben franklin started the first one. if your house is on fire, we're going to collectively pay into making sure if someone's house is on fire, we'll put it out and save your house. aren't our bodies just as
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important in the libertarian wos say neither. they want to privatize the fire departments. and i think that this whole tearing apart obama care thing, this is an attempt to put our bodies out. and it is like this libertarian craziness -- >> this is a matter of fact. most of the fire departments in america are voluntary. there are relatively few. >> numerically. in in terms of the number of people -- a lot of little tiny towns in america. >> if you had gone to ben franklin and said we're going to have this groom of people and they're going on blossom, i think he would have said let's slow down a little bit. >> voluntary fire departments are still supported by the communal. >> we'll come back to obama care in a second. >> we're doing the obama fire argument. >> i understand your point. it is insurance. they call it insurance for a reason. you pay in so when you get sick you know it will be there when you need at this time most. cancer patients not being able to go to their cancer doctor.
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i want to remind everybody about the system that obama care reformed. let's take a look at some of the characteristics of this system. 129 people could be denld coverage because of a preexisting condition. a lot of them with cancer. so not only could they not see their cancer doctor but they could not get any coverage at all because they were denied care. women were charged 50% more than men. that's just a sampling of the thing that obama care fixes. my question to newt, you've said republicans don't have a plan. if you asked a republican going home to their district, they wonderful have an answer my question to both of you, what exactly is the republican health care plan that fixes those problems? >> first of all, as many of the thing we're dealing. with i think we would take one step at a time and wouldn't try to pass a 2,700 page bill nobody understands with consequences nobody understands. and i think if you look at a number of these steps, in a lot
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of cases. if you have insurance, you were protected on preconditions. >> that's not true. especially for people on the individual plans that you are protecting now. >> and taking this one step at a time -- >> unfortunately we'll have to ask you back to continue this. next we cease fire. is there anything the two of you can agree on? we want you at home to weigh in on the fireback question. is bill clinton stepping on obama's toes? tweet yes or no by using #crossfire. how much protein
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let's call a cease fire. is there anything we can agree on in. >> i think we can agree from the very beginning we've known this bill would have to be tweaked and altered and changed. and i'm just hoping that we can have good will to actually fix it as opposed to sabotage it. >> i look forward to democrats supporting the legislation on the floor of the house friday and supporting legislate to fix the privacy problems in the exchanges which will probably delay them for a year and then we can delay the mandate for a year and because you cannot force people to go in where there is no security or privacy. i hope there is bipartisan cooperation in dismantling obama care piece by piece. >> this was a cease fire. >> we got that about 50%. >> we're halfway there. >> at least we got some honesty.
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>> here's what i think is interesting and complicated for both parties. there's going to be a series of things mike rogers has raised. that the sites are not secure and they're hackable. there will be a series of these. it will be interesting to see if in fact despite the degree to which they don't like each other, the president and the house republicans and the senate on both sides, democrat and republican, can find a way to grind through. this isn't he will ganlt. this kind of legislation is a day-by-day listening to each other and trying to grind it out. we'll come back to that another time i want to thank both of you. to go facebook or twitter to weigh in on our fireback question. is bill clinton stepping on obama's toes by weighing in on obama care? right now 52% of you say yes. 48% say no. >> the debate continues online.
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from the left i'm stephanie cutter. >> from the right i'm newt gingrich. join us tomorrow for another edition of cros"crossfire." erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. "outfront" next. president versus president. >> even if it takes changing the law the president should honor the commitment. >> bill clinton's strong words for president obama. plus, should you be on anlt cholesterol pills? >> some of these side effects are pretty significant. >> researchers say millions who are not on the drugs should be. but are they really safe? >> and from bad to worse. >> i don't have home. we lose our homes. and we have nothing to eat. we really need help now. >> the latest from the philippines. let's go "outfront."

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