tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN December 5, 2013 4:00pm-5:01pm PST
happening in south africa over the next ten
days of mourning. nelson man dadela has passed aw. thank you for watching our special situation room coverage of the passing of nelson mandela. much more coming up right now on erin burnett "outfront" with jake tapper filling in. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com good evening. you're watching erin burnett "outfront." we're following the news story of nelson mandela, the first black president of south africa. an anti-apartheid icon. he was 95 years old.
his passing was announced late this afternoon by south african
president jacob zuma. >> our nation has lost its greatest son. our people have lost a father. but though we knew that this day would come, nothing can diminish our sense of the profound and enduring loss. >> president obama who met mandela in 2005 said he cannot fully imagine his own life without the example set by mandela. >> we will not likely see the likes of nelson mandela again. so it falls to us as best we can to follow the example that he set to make decisions guided not by hate but by love.
to never disdown the difference that one person can make. to strive for a future that is worthy of his sacrifice. for now, let us pause and give thanks for the fact that nelson mandela lived. a man who took history in his hands. and bent the arc of the moral universe toward justice. >> president obama is expected to travel to south africa to attend the memorial service for mandela. at the united nations tonight, the security council paused for a moefl silence in mandela's honor. ? south africa, crowds of mourners have gathered to celebrate the life of the former president. robin is in south africa with the story of his incredible life. >> reporter: nelson mandela's struggle for freedom defined his
life. he was born in the row motor hills of south africa's eastern cape. he was given the name which means troublemaker. he was only given the name nelson by a school teacher later on. after moving to johannesburg and studying law, mandela's trouble making politics began. and as a boxer he became adept at picking fights and sparring with the apartheid authorities which had increased its oppression against the black population. it was then that he made the crucial decision to take up an armed struggle, launching african national congress's armed wing. he was militant and a fire brand. definely burning his pass book. a dreaded document the authorities used against the black population. >> the africans require, want the franchise on the basis of one man one vote. they want political independents. >> that simple demand and the
methods he took to fight for democracy eventually saw him and others tried for treason and sabotage. acts punishable by death. but they got life ill prisonment instead. banished to one of the most brutal and isolated prisons. another political prisoner remembers the first time he saw mandela in the prison yard. >> i could see from the way he walked and from his conduct that here was a man already stamping his authority on prison regime. >> mandela was released 27 years later. >> i have spoken about freedom in my lifetime. your struggle, your commitment and your discipline has released
me to stand before you today. >> reporter: and his lack of bitterness toward the apartheid authorities helped him to lead one of the most remarkable political transitions of the 20th century. mandela, the trained lawyer and rebel outmaneuvered the apartheid leaders and he steered south africa's peaceful transition to democracy. he won a nobel peace prize, together with his former enemy, the former leader. >> to devote myself to the one thing of the republic and all its people. >> reporter: then he became south africa's first black president in 1994. >> so help me god. >> what marks mandela's career as president almost more than anything else is that after five years, he stepped down. there have been very few presidents in africa who have ever given up willingly. >> don't call me.
i'll call you. >> reporter: his retirement years were busy with frairsing for charities close to his heart. he celebrated his 90th birthday with much fanfare and told cnn in a rare interview that looking back, he would not do anything differently. >> i don't regret it because the things that have things that pleased my soul. >> reporter: those who loved and respected him look to his legacy. >> if we wanted to learn from him, learn that life is not made up of straight victories. it is made up of mistakes, zig zags, stumbling, picking yourself up and dusting off the dirt, treating the bruise and walking again forward.
>> reporter: cnn, johannesburg, south africa. >> i want to bring in robin. you bring in interviewed president mandela for his 90th birthday. i believe it was the last tv interview he did. what did he think his legacy would be? >> reporter: he always topped me, not only his family, that he wanted other people to define his legacy. i think he understood that it was quite organic and he would not be able to control it. and i think in a way that was a gift. he really insisted that his legacy should live personally within all of us. and i think that was key. but when it comes to nelson mandela and this extraordinary journey, this life of his, just think about it. beyond the political ill reply indications of his life and what an impact owed this country and democracy, just to put into perspective. he was born in 1918 as the first
world war was coming to an end. at the age of 46, he was jailed for 27 years. only coming out of prison at the age of 72. he became the first black president at the age of 76. he got married for the third time at the age of 80. and he spend the last 15 years making up for lost time with his family and grandchildren. and just being at peace. at 95, he left. he went away today. he went home as some people say. but i think there is a deep sense of gratitude. acknowledgement that this was a man whose whole life really inspired, not just this generation but others. >> really remarkable legacy. i want to bring in our chief international correspondent. joining me on the phone, the reverend jesse jackson. he was one of the first people to greet nelson mandela the day he was released from prison
after a more than 27-year confinement. and on the phone, the first african-american governor since reconstruction. i want to start with you. that must have been such an incredible moment. you stood outside martin luther king jr. and the country's civil rights and you were on south africa on the day mandela walked out of prison. tell us about that moment. >> you know, it was a moment difficult to describe. he took us on unbelievable heights of joy that day. and the depths of pain. a huge larger than life figure. i've gotten into south africa quite by chance in 1979 and connected with his family and we instructed in the 1990. and we had the feeling he would be released this weekend so my
son and i met him there. what surprised me was he recognized me and call my name. he had seen the convention speech from the democratic convention. he came out and stopped. i'm sure the governor will say that he was unbelievably slumped. he came out not just reading speeches but up for debate. >> what do you think his enduring legacy will be around the world? is it the concept that i've heard you speak? the concept of forgiveness and reconciliation? >> i think it is the thing everybody says. that he was the true towering moral figure of our time. why do people say that he is the leader that they most respect? everybody you ask, when you ask them who is their favorite leader in the world? they say nelson mandela. because of what he did when he came out of prison. forget sack that he made as a
freedom fighter on behalf of the majority of the people of south africa. when he came out of prison after being treated so horned usually, he had the grace, and he saw that he had to understand the other. he created himself as political figure and he met them with a handshake rather than a clenched fist. and this is his enduring leg civil it is so rare. the images that flash in front of your mind about nelson mandela. the 1994 election. south africa's first, is just stu pendous. it won't for two days and they had to call for helicopters and cargo planes and it was the most extraordinary thing. i think what his old comrade in arms and as we know, the spokesman for the presidency said, he stamped his authority.
even on prison. he earned the respect and quietly demanded the respect and got it of his prison warders. and max said this is a man who proved that simply by being so dignified forced even the adversary to respect him. and i think that is just so tremendous. how he did that. we talk about hill as if he was an angel. he was a man with a core of steel. and he was able to be that and also to be so incredibly human and fun. all the pictures you see, he is smiling and dancing. a most remarkable combination. >> you met with him many times. one of the thing that i read this evening, that i thought was so fascinating was somebody talking about mandela. the cunning politician. obviously rerevere him for his accomplishments but he said that he wielded his halo as a weapon.
tell us about the savvy man who was able to accomplish what he did with much more than smile and grace. >> nelson mandela was a smart man, a trained man, an educated man and he also stressed the need for that. you can't know what's right unless you know what's wrong. so you can't be in a position to demand what's right before you can criticize what's wrong. so he is staying on top of that. he also learned the best way to overcome your enemy is to be smarter. the best way to unite your forces is to be able to give credit where it belongs. he would say he served with me
as well as in prison. steve, he did not to go prison because he was killed. but the sacrifices he made. so mandela was able to unite the forces of good wherever they were. whether it was in the other places, in the urban dwellings of johannesburg or capetown. he was able to speak to the high and the low. to let them know it was not just for a few but for all. and did he so not looking out for anything for himself but sharing with others. he is a moral for us, the likes of which we will have a very difficult time seeing a replacement any time soon. >> a lot of people are too young to remember the bitter debate in the 1990s about how to deal with south africa. how to try to stop the
oppressive and racist apartheid regime. those debates were very vigorous. looking back on them now. a reporter told me this evening that the clerk maintains to this day, the sanctions kept apartheid in place longer. that's not my statement. self serving. >> 20 years of street action, divestment of plans, organized labor, the plan of the universities. they set in and faced jail in
defiance and then for a whole year, he went to jail every day for a year. and finally, finally one day congressman asked for a voice vote. the u.s. government declaring sanctions was the beginning of the he said. i met with mrs. thatchter day before mandela was set free and britain never broke from apartheid south africa. but the u.s. played the most significant role of any. i think, i was listening to brother doug speak. he chose a critical point. he had a chance for a very bloody south africa. but the unfinished business. and i think that reconciliation over retribution. we had a conversation about two
years ago. we were talking. he said he had been the military leader. he felt nonviolence would not work there. he planned to blow up a hospital in desperation. he was captured just before that happened. he is glad he got caught. he would rather have spent 27 years in jail than to have the blood on his hands of innocent people. to me that is quintessentially him. he also made some tough decisions politically about his allies. he reached out to cuba. he reach out to libya. he tried to bring a nonaligned mission. ted global vision and very principled stands on those issues. >> and president obama only met nelson mandela once, i believe. there did seem to be a real
connection between the first black president of the united states and the first black president of south africa. how do you think mandela impacted president obama's life? >> he said it in his tribute today. that this was the first political activism that president obama as a young man got involved with. the protest against apartheid in south africa. and yes, in 2005 at the four seasons hotel in washington, d.c., then senator obama, did get to meet mandela. he was very lucky. he was a freshman senator. he never met him as president although michelle and the girls did. this must have had the tremendous impact, the first black president of the united states, the first black president of south africa. it is really very, very important. and talking about him reaching across to allies. the black people were behind him and they rallied with great pain and sacrifice but so did so many
whites in south africa. i remember being on campus during the apartheid days. and my friend john kennedy who took up the mantle of rob kennedy and his father in the cause of civil rights brought helen suesman. very famous campaign here befriended mandela when he was in prison. and she came and delivered an electrifying talk on campus. and you understood that it was because he was able to reach out and get whites on board with him as well that this in the enwas possible. >> finally, sole of us have memories of nelson mandela from television and books and movies. you actually have memories of him from your life. if you would, walk us through that if you would. >> one of the things he pretty
much said, when he, when we first met, and he knew that i had made a commitment on behalf of virginia that we would no longer trade with south africa, invest with our pension funds, and we would do nothing to promote them as long as they were practicing apartheid. he thanked me for it and he said you cannot know what it means for that to take place. he said you cannot know what it means for virginia to do that. and to take a leadership role. and i disagree with what he said. i debated him quite a while. he was president visiting. it did have an effect. to the extent this man never look for credit for himself.
he always believed in sharing. they voted for him and they believed in him. it was well justified. what did he with me was made me feel much smaller than i was. he will always look at me. he would lower his head to make it, almost make it look like we were the same height. i loved him dearly. >> how lucky you were to have been a friend to him. thank you so much. we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, how mandela went from being call a terrorist one day to being embraced by the world the next. even by his enemies.
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what is important is no particular individual or organization. it is the people of south africa. that is what should dominate all of us. and i think that everyone of us will agree that the people of south africa have been victorious. they have won. >> the death of an icon but also a celebration of his life for those of you just joining us, nelson mandel. a the first black president of that country died at the age of 95. don lemon is in harlem. how did nelson mandela change this country, do you think? >> reporter: well, i think when you speak of nelson mandela,
especially in this country, you have to use the word hope. he gave many people hope. especially african-americans. and you have to remember when he visited this country back in 1990, for large urban areas, it wasn't a great time. there was a large drug epidemic. the economy was not great. when he came to this country, he gave a lot of people hope that thing could be better. that after 27 years, spending 27 years in prison, for him to come out of prison and not be bitter and do something positive, i think gave many people in america and across the world hope. i think that's what you have to do. you have to mention that word when you mention nelson mandel. a i'm sure you recognize the apollo theater. when he visited new york and harlem in 1990 and the marquis that, welcome home, mr. and mrs. mandela. we love you. we love you. we love you. that's because mr. mandela felt like he had a kinship with new
york, friends here burg especially harlem. when many africans come to america for the first time, they come and live here in harlem. now the marquis says in memory of nelson mandela. he changed our world. i was going back over that visit in 1990 when he got off the plane. they said he was tired. they were worried about his health back then. he was 72 years old. the first thing he, did there were some little girls standing as he got off the plane with the african national congress flag and he got down and stooped there and he let them drape the flag over him and his wife winnie at the time and he spent a lot of time with him. even though he was tired he made a big impression. and he gathered his strength. >> there were at least 200,000 people out here.
there were some people going through certain personal issues at that time. whether it was jobs, family. that he could spend 27 years of his life fighting for a cause that he believed in, we can get better at what we need to do. >> apartheid had not fallen. he was at a ceremony at city hall. at the end of a very graceful speech, he said apartheid is doomed. and that drew a rousing applause from people here and people watching on the monitors. 750,000 people over the course of his visit in new york city got to see him including a ticker tape parade, a motorcade that came right through here. >> a big reception at riverside church. he was in a car and i saw him. i'm on top of the marquis with some staff members. and see nelson mandela pointing
as if someone was saying, there's the apollo theater and it made us feel so good that he acknowledged that we were there. >> it was a different time then. harlem was a different time in the 1990s. it was going through some things as we say. and now harlem is in its renaissance. when he was here, it was the first george w. bush was the president and we had the first black mayor of new york city. and now we have the first black president of the united states. what do you think he would think of harlem and the united states? >> i think he would think we've come a long way which we have. the fact that we have a black president the united states, who he knew. the fact that harlem is being redeveloped. some for it, some against but progress is sometimes not accepted by everybody. i think nelson mandela would love the fact that we are moving on. we've gotten over the hump. there's a lot of us, we're looking for hope. we've found it. now we're moving on. >> jake tapper who is the anchor of this program said how did he
change america? how did he change the world? how did he change america? was i right with that word hope? >> i think it was hope and by example. a lot of people can talk. this man stood for anti-apartheid. he stood in jail. he suffered a lot. you understand? but he did not give up. and he was be going to give in. so if we all had that type of drive and commitment, things would change for all of us. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. and jake, it was what? about 25 years after the death of dr. martin luther king and many in this country, especially people of color, were looking for hopeful some thing had changed. many had not changed. nelson mandela came along and offered many people hope. jake? >> what a nice sentiment. thank you. joining us now on the phone is general colin powell. your reaction to the news of man tell
tell -- mandela's passing? >> i heard it on the plane. we've been waiting for this day to come. it still hit me as if it was nothing to be expected. he was a remarkable man. i was privileged to know him. i was privileged to spend time with him. and so many things are being said about nelson mandela. my memories will always go back to his inauguration in 1994. i was privileged to be there in front of the union hall when he was inaugurated. i will never forget. as came up on the stage to become the new president of the new south africa, he was preceded by the four generals. you see things through the filter of your experience. as general i could not help noticing these four white generals came ahead of him as a guard of honor. and it was showing him, that they accepted him as a freely elected president. and then he looked down to the jailers who were in the front row. and it reminded everybody that
my regime, my new leadership of this country is about reconciliation. it is about democracy, about taking care of the people, it is about improving the economy and not living in the past but looking forward to the future. he was a remarkable man. >> general powell, where do you think, as somebody who met him and followed him so closely from your leadership of this country. where do you think he got the emotional strength to set this example? obviously it would be i think psychologically impossible to completely forgive the people who oppressed you for having done that. for having denied you to spend time with your children, cost you a marriage, imprison you for 27 years. he did so so nakedly, having his jailers there at his inauguration. how was he able to do that? >> i think it came from the depth of his soul and his heart and the depth of his love for
his country and the depth of his love for his people. he made it clear from the very start that he was determined to bring an toned apartheid. he would do it peacefully but if that didn't work i was prepared to use violence. and he did. when the violence was getting out of control and it was obvious then white leadership was getting toward reach out to him. he didn't compromise his principles. he insisted on the end of apartheid and a new way of life in south africa. and so he believed. and he sacrificed for those beliefs and he never strayed from his purpose. we don't see enough leaders like that who have a clear vision, a clear purpose and who have moral courage and physical courage to do whatever is necessary to successes succeed. that's what did he. that's an excellent example of the rest of us. that's an inspiration to the rest of the world. >> tell us as someone who had met him so many times, if you
have any personal stories to share, to let us in. so many of us know him only from television or his books or his speeches but you actually had occasion to know him. >> i knew him. i had dinner with him, i had conversations with him. what always struck me was his humbleness. he was a humble, gentle, warm person even though he was a fighter on the political stage as well as on the military stage. but he was a man had deep conviction about what was right. and he approached everybody he met as a fellow human being. equal to him. that's what i remember. and he had a warm smile. we would sit and talk. and he would say colin, how are you? i would say, very well, thank you. he was so gracious. a gracious man. you can very seldom find that combination of virtues and values all in one person. it was all there. one man we came to love.
nelson mandela. >> tell us about the cunning politician. we think of him as angelic and we assume that's where he is. >> none of this was ordained. it was his political skill and his understanding -- >> i think we've lost colin powell. that's a shame. we'll try to get him back. joining us now on the phone, we have larry king and fareed zakaria. what do you think his most enduring legacy will be? >> well, there are actually so many. i think that there are probably two or three great moments you have to look at to think about what he'll be remembered for. the first is that when he comes
out of prison, he decides that he is going to find a way to do this transition to the new south africa with the establishment. he negotiates in good faith. he finds a way to include them in everything. the second piece of it, and he was doing this as you pointed out. he is not an angel. he was a canny politician. he was doing this because he wanted to save the country. he understood that if you destroy the old order, there will be chaos. think about iraq where the new regime comes in. they dismantle, throw entire army out. the whole regime collapsed. mandela understood that. he somehow had an understanding that you had to preserve the old order even though this was an order that had been so vicious, so cruel. remember, to have that kind of sense of forgiveness. this is a regime that did not allow him to attend the funeral of his first born son in 1968.
his son died in a car accident. and the apartheid regime did not allow him to visit his family, go to the funeral, nothing. and he looks at that regime and he says, i'll going on preserve this bureaucracy. this army, this police force because that's the only way to preserve south africa. he goes for truth and reconciliation rather than even justice. it was truth and reconciliation was a system which said, you can air your grievances but really no one will go to jail. no one will lose their jobs. the ideas were all in this together in the new south africa. and the final piece is he left office. in 1999 when he left office after one term, i don't think there were many. i don't think there were any black african presidents who had ever left office. robert has been in office for 35 years, i think. he was sending a signal. he was being south africa's george washington.
he was demonstrating that democracy is not as it so often is in africa, about the personality or about a dynasty. it was about something much larger than him. it is a strange thing. in everyone of these cases, he was demonstrating that all these things, the country, the institutions, democracy, were much larger than him biffle making the sacrifices, he became in a strange sense, larger than all of them. >> larry king, you interviewed nelson mandela in may. i want to play a clip of that. >> i was a terrorist yesterday but then i came out and many people embraced me including my enemies. and that is what i normally tell other people who say, those who are struggling for liberation in their conduct are terrorists. i tell them that i was also a terrorist yesterday.
today i am admired by those who said i was one. >> in fact, i think nelson mandela didn't get off the terrorist watch list in this country in the u.s. until 2008 because of an oversight. mandela inspired countless individuals. he was even embraced by enemies. what empressed you the most? >> i've interviewed thousands. peep over the years. i put him way up there. i think he might have been the greatest figure of the 20th century. with ail overcame, he was revolutionary. he became a great president. he invited his jailers to come to his inaugural which it was an incredible act of forgiveness. i had an extraordinary day with him. i was in south africa after i interviewed him. i was in south africa on a speaking tour and i was invited to his home and he came out of his house. he was limping. he had a bad leg and he wore
suspenders in my honor which thrilled me to death. i spend a wonderful afternoon and had lunch. the next morning i had breakfast with the clerk. the man who released him from prison. the clerk told me an extraordinary thing. he called mandela on the phone and said you're going to be released tomorrow. and we would like to have you fly up to johannesburg from capetown and we would like to have you address parliament. and mandela refused. he said he would like to leave the prison and walk among the people. which is what he did. and when you see that prison, have you been there? where he was held? >> no, i have not. >> he looked out on one of the most beautiful vistas in the world for all those years, when you look through his prison bar, at the mainland of capetown which is one of the great sights in the world. to face that every day. a land that looks so peaceful and tranquil and beautiful. san francisco is the closest reminder of it. and then to live through that and come out.
there is no way to describe him other than extraordinary, a beautiful human being and as it was pointed out by the previous guest, a brilliant politician. >> we heard president obama is expected to travel to south africa for the memorial. what do you expect for nelson mandela's funeral? >> i think it will be on par with winston churchill's funeral. maybe not quite john kennedy because he was a sitting president but there will probably be upward of 50, maybe 75 heads of government. i think it is the last of these moments. if you think about it, there isn't anybody in the world who has this kind of global resonance. for one thing, the fight against apartheid was part of that great political cause. what's going on in china is happening in china. what's happening in africa is
happening in africa. there aren't these causes like international communism that tie the whole world together. apartheid was like that. the anti-apartheid movement was like that and mandela was like that. just before he was released, programs one of the contributing causes, there was a huge 70th birthday party for nelson mande mandela. it was held, i think, in london. every rock star in the world, politicians. it was this great global event. so mandela represents the last of the great global causes. i would be be surprised if, what you see is a very odd collection of people. what mandela was able to do and this was, you were talking about his political brilliance. he brought together all kinds of, it was a strange motley collection. when he became president of south africa. everyone wondered, is he going to be pro western? the african national congress,
his organization, had been supported by revolutionaries, by gadhafi, by castro, he steers his country in the direction of pro western, pro markets, pro democracy. he never let's go of the personal loyalty to those people. i would not be surprised if at the funeral you see something very similar. there will be some people who we might regard as coming out of the rogue states of the world. then there will be barack obama and the entire western world will be there to pay homage. >> if i can just -- >> go ahead. >> it was also about him, a sweetness, a gentleness he changed the room. there were some figures, when nelson mandela walked into the room, he changed the room. can we agree? there was a gentle quality about him. >> absolutely. what strikes me, tell me, when you watch him on tv giving a
speech, he was ram rod straight. he had this very staccato fierce way of talking. when you talk to him privately, a very soft, gentle man. >> he was. gentle is a great word to describe him. when you think of all he put up with, you think, i can't believe the kind of life he led and was given that long life to live to 95. what a blessing that was. >> thank you. we continue to remember nelson mandela. stay with us.
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and gave america back a profit. we're here to keep our promises. to help you realize a better tomorrow. from the families of aig, happy holidays. and our giant idaho potato truck is still missing. so my dog and i we're going to go find it. it's out there somewhere spreading the good word about idaho potatoes and raising money for meals on wheels. but we'd really like our truck back, so if you see it, let us know, would you? thanks. what?
you've called him a giant in history and a rare leader. tell us what he was like as a person. >> he was mischievous. he was is he self-deprecating. and he made people around but what really struck is here is a guy whose not just a political giant but really a moral giant and not just opposition to a part child. it was also his leadership on things like reconciliation and aids and hiv and lgbt rights, which was very unusual for south africa. >> nick, i want to interrupt you to show that's the white house flag at half staff being lowered, having been lowered earlier this evening. please proceed. >> it under scores to a degree not just a leader of south africa but a leader for the
word, and, you know, i think he embodied a certain amount of self-sacrific self-sacrifice, there is a lot of frustration globally and here is a man that gave up a promising legal career, who gave up 27 years, who refused to be released early. insisted on unconditional release who separated from his wife because of -- in part because of her political behavior, and limited himself to one term. i mean, nobody more than he embodied that kind of self-sacrifice. >> rachial, his daughter said he was an extra vert to the world but when it came to his own family, awkward. why do you think that was? >> you know, when i had a chance to speak with the daughter and granddaughter of nelson mandela, i found it interesting one of the comments the daughter said is so many people believe nelson
mandela fell from the sky, and it stopped me in my tracks because i'm like didn't he? didn't he fall from the sky? he seems such a larger than life person, and, you know, you saw that sort of conflict, if you could call it that, between the way the world saw him and the way his family saw him, and i think what they were trying to do the in final years of his life was humanize him and make him an everyday average guy, which is really hard, a hard pill to squall he. >> "mandela, long walk to freedom" the actor playing him said it was important we had both sides, the good and the bad. in previous movies he's been portrayed as fairly perfect. how do you think as we spend the next few days remembering him, how important is it for people to understand as his daughter or
granddaughter said that he didn't fall from the sky. >> i think mandela said it himself on several occasions that he was not a saint. that he was like any other person. he made mistakes. he had failures, but he was a man of grace, a man of courage, a man who was willing to forgive his enemies and to bring his enemies to the table. i think this new movie really illustrate not just his journey from humble beginnings in a small village in south africa to rise to become this international icon. when i think of mandela, i think of gohondi and men that transfom the nation. >> he tried to make sure so much that how he behaved in public was absorbed by the masses and part of that was his humility
and part of that is belief in reconciliation, his belief that south africa did not fall apart. >> yeah, he was a master of symboli symbolism. i don't know that he was a master of actual governance. he only had one term, but on issues like crime and education and poverty, south africa did find that not as well as he might have hoped. where he was truly transcechan is in these overpowering issues of reckon sill trai-- reconcilid providing leadership on leader on on conflicts all around africa and the world, for example. >> donna, what does mandela mean to you?
>> he was inspiration. at a time many of us were trying to grow up and do things to bring about freedom, he was a symbol of freedom. he fought, that movement really came out of the civil rights struggle where labor leaders march in front of south africa embassy and when mandela came to the united states to say thank you, it was a joyful occasion. he will be remembered as a man who was not afraid to confront his enemies and make his enemies his friends. >> rachial, same question for you, what do he mean to you? made you pursue the project of the film you made with his granddaughter and daughter? >> when i was interviewing just to make sure we have it correct, i was interviewing nelson mandela's daughters about wine, the house of wine they were touring around the u.s. and i think what nelson mandela definitely means to me, he was an everyday guy, and he was really supported by his family. if he can do that, right, then i
think so many of us can live up to those same values of just integrity and character and walking in your truth. >> important lessons. thank you so much. we appreciate it. next, remembrances from around the world, of course, pouring in for nelson mandela. we'll share some of them with you. [ male announcer ] here's a question for you: where does the united states get most of its energy? is it africa?
and that a big heart is better than a closed mind and that life's real victories must be shared. he dedicated his life to a singular cause. a quest to free the black population of his homeland, and accomplishing that he freed south africa's white population and freed an entire nation and in freeing a nation, he freed the entire world. that's it for me. that's it for me. "ac 360" starts now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com thanks, good evening everyone. we're devoting this hour to nelson mandela. very few people transformed their country. the crowd outside his house speak to that. ♪ ♪ >> sad news, there is a sense of celebration how far nelson mandela brought south africa and brought us all and