tv CNN Newsroom CNN April 13, 2014 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT
pick up debris. bringing critical evidence and hopefully answers to the surface. here's what is fascinating about this technology. whether it's this auv, which is for shallow water or for deep water like the one in the indian ocean, it uses side scan sonar and the process of retrieving that information is the same. it creates a map of the ocean floor. fred? >> thank you so much, rosa flores. appreciate that. hello again, everyone. i'm fredricka whitfield. we're watching two big stories. the search area section panding in the search for flight 370 as we move into day 38. also, we're following breaking news in ukraine where violence and tensions are quickly escalating. you are about to see masked men pinning a man against the wall. this is only about 100 miles from ukraine's border with
russia. a move the rest of the world has not recognized. it is also where those masked men took over the police headquarters. this video, all new in to the "cnn newsroom," security forces claimed to have launched an operation to clear the pro-russian protesters out. a crew in the city saw no sign of a large ukrainian force. and this video just in this afternoon. it's social media video that purcha purported toly showed protests beaten and bloody. let's take you over to nick paton walsh who is in donetsk. >> reporter: well, it seems as though we're into a new phase here. this violence, which is
effectively pro-russian militants back you had up by pro-russian protesters on the outskirts of the area that i'm standing has been escalating and people are positioning themselves to actual violence being normal currency of what is happening here. that's prompted a response from the government which this morning was in effective. they called an anti terror operation and one security official telling us one of them killed there now the president of ukraine, president releasing a statement in which he gave an explicit deadline. here's what he had to say. >> translator: we did everything to avoid human victims but we are ready to give an answer to all attempts at invasion, destabilization and the council took the decision with the participation of the armed forces of ukraine. we won't let russia repeat the
crime mean cry mean crimen scenario in the eastern region of ukraine. for those who didn't shoot our soldiers by monday, i signed a decree to guarantee they will not receive any punishment for their actions. >> now, that's 9:00 tomorrow morning. people in these buildings have to lay down their weapons and they will be amnestied or the ukrainian army is coming in. it's unlikely the first that we'll see these militants lay down their weapons. secondly, the question, as i said, such a minimal law enforcement response from the ukraine. does kiev really have the manpower to come in here empty handed enough and try and suppress these pro-russian militants and protesters? so that's really what tomorrow
will bring. they are saying it's up to the west to find a way out of this crisis and calling on ukraine to stop declaring war on its own people, which reminds everybody about the 40,000 troops on the other side of the ukrainian border and the potential for them to intervene if moscow thinks that the pro russian protests are under threat here. >> nick paton walsh, thank you so much. what is the obama administration saying about the latest moves in ukraine? here is u.n. ambassador samantha power on abc's "this week." >> it has all of the telltale signs that we saw in crime. there's nothing grassroots seeming about it. the sanctions can bite. if actions like what we've seen continue, you're going to see a ramping up of those sanctions. >> all right.
joining me now on the phone is our pentagon correspondent barbara starr. barbara, what has been the reaction on this latest stance in the ukraine? >> well, what you're hearing is what we've been hearing for several weeks, that russia has to de-escalate the position. the u.s. has the position that it's russian agents and provacateurs, that they have to stop that violence and they have to pull back on the 40,000 troops that u.s. says is on that ukraine-russia border. the russian foreign minister sergey lavrov said the big concern now is that all of this will add up to basically the
provocation that the u.s. fears russia has been waiting for in order to send its troops into ukraine and that's really the effort, the diplomatic effort to stop that and the threat of additional sanctions if that was to be carried out, fred. >> thank you so much, barba barbara starr. the white house said that the strong subpoepport for united democratic ukraine that makes its own choices about its future path. the search area for flight 370 is now getting bigger after days of shrinking. the visual search area expanded to a 22,000 square-mile area. that's 40% bigger than yesterday's search area. the big focus is trying to detect pings consistent with a black box that crews last heard on tuesday. an official with the company
that builds pingers say that the batteries are most likely dead or close to it. will ripley is following every step of the search in perth. will, why did they expand this visual search area? >> reporter: well, because they are continuing to fly out every day and they still haven't found a piece of debris. they are constantly looking at the data, at the currents and they are trying to get a handle on where this debris field, if there is still debris floating, where it could be. they continue to search tirelessly. not only above the surface but under water as well to see if there are any pings left from the black box. the pings are getting weaker each time the pinger locator was able to lock on to them. this could be a key week for the search, fred, because at some
point -- and i can guarantee you, there are conversations happening behind the scenes right now. they are going to have to make the decision that there is not anything to hear. we need to start getting down there and looking. this is -- they have narrowed down as much as is going to happen using the pinger locator and then they get the submersible down there to see what they can find. >> it sounds like the searchers are in concert with what some of the developers of the company that actually builds pingers that the batteries are likely dead so they are not likely to hear anything more at this point? >> reporter: you know, not anything publicly yet. that hasn't actually been confirmed by the search chief angus houston. whenever he has something significant to aunited statesnn calls for a press conference. as far as we know, nothing new has been found. nothing new has been heard. the next time he calls that press conference, fred, is going to be announce that something has been found or to announce
that the search effort might be shifting to a new phase at some point soon. >> thank you so much, will ripley in perth. up next, searchers have heard nothing but silence for days now. four days. no pings at all. our panel weighs in on what the silence means and where they need to go next. [ doctor ] and in a clinical trial versus lipitor,
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...and we'll replace destroyed or stolen items with brand-new versions. we take care of the heat, so you don't get burned. just another way we put members first, because we don't have shareholders. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ we're now learning today that the aerial search area for flight 370 is expanding in the southern portion of the indian ocean after a more study of ocean currents in that part of the ocean and other data, the search area is now some 40% larger than it was yesterday. it's also now been five days since searchers have heard any kind of ping that they believe might have come from the plane's black boxes. let's go now to our panel at this hour. bob francis is a former vice chairman of the ntsb and mary
schiavo is now an aviation attorney who represents families suing airlines in crashes and disasters and rob mccullum is a cnn analyst and vice president at williamson and associates and captain van gurley is a senior manager at metron solutions. we've had five days since the last confirmed ping. rob, at this point does this simply cement the point that the batteries are likely dead and it's time to think about other assets in which to introduce to this area? >> yes, i think so. i mean, the manufacturer is being very clear about the battery life and, you know, every good effort is being expanded and it's now looking like the batteries are fading and it's time to start mowing
the lawn, start to scan the sea floor. >> and captain gurley, it seems that the battery is either dead or it's dying. if they haven't heard anything in five days, i mean, why wouldn't they already have made the decision either publicly or at least to send the bluefin into the water. >> well, the usaustralians have wanted to give every possible chance to pick up the ping. the next phase of the search, the slowest phase of the search, which is mowing the lawn, as rob said, at the ocean bottom. so any more information that they can glean over the next couple of days could save weeks in the other phase of the search. a little investment now may save a lot of time now. >> mary, you have expressed
confidence that they have expanded the aerial search. that doesn't mean that the search looking for the contained area, the 17-mile radius where the last four pings were heard has been expanded. in your view, why is it encouraging that the aerial search would be expanded? >> well, i don't know that it's just wildly encouraging. i think that they are giving one last final push, a last-ditch effort, if you will, to see if by any chance there is any wreckage to be found. because even a few pieces would help narrow the search. i think it's one last big push. maybe just a hail mary pass, if you will, to try and find anything that they can to help them zero in on where to go on the ocean floor because as the previous guests have said, once they put those bluefins in, that's it. it could be a long, hard process. >> robin, your view of the bluefin is a valuable tool but
at the same time, you don't believe that's the only one. you think others should be introduced to the scene. >> the tool that is going to be used is side scan sonar and you can deploy it one of two ways. you can put it on an auv or you can tow it through the ocean on a towed sledder and the advantage is that they can be deployed very quickly but they have limited range. the bluefin might search something like 30 miles a day whereas a towed aray may search 100 miles a day. it's a question of scale. if the search area is going to be larger, you need more tools. if it's going to be confined to just the pinger locations, it could be small. >> bob, in your view, something can be learned from every investigation. this one is unprecedented.
there isn't anything like it. everyone has agreed that they haven't seen this kind of mystery, ever. based on your opinion, the way the countries are coming together in the underwater and aerial searchers, what technology or lessons need to come from this and the capabilities, the tools that are needed to get to the bottom of an investigation like this quicker? >> well, i think that equipping the aircraft with a way to automatically transmit data to satellites is the answer and there are lots of different ways of doing that. it's going to involve some expense on the part of the airlines to equip aircraft that are doing oceanic runs. but a percentage of what it
costs them to operate an aircraft, it's not going to be enormous. one of the interesting things here is i think to look at the comparison between air france and here and air france, of course, never had pingers. so they were -- they had a tremendous amount of territory to have to look at, even though they had a track. so i think that those pingers have got to encourage us. air france took two years. i would hope that having the pingers and the data from the pingers will allow us to not have it go on anywhere near that long. >> all right. captain van gurley, mary schiavo, rob francis, rob mccallum. thank you. we're going to talk about the extremely difficult work that the searchers are doing there and how they avoid complacency.
we learned that russia will be meeting with the u.n. security council on the crisis in ukraine. so far the council has not responded. this comes after two days of violence where gunman stormed buildings in two towns. nick paton walsh is live for us in donetsk, ukraine. and richard is on the phone. what does russia feel like they would get out of the proposed meeting? >> well, at the very least, russia feels like they've had their chance at the security
council and the citizens have been under attack in ukraine. the meeting will happen. they have confirmed at 8:00 tonight that it's not clear whether it will be private cons consultation. >> what will the u.n. security council be tasked to do? >> reporter: well, they have many roles in times of crises but with russia having a veto, they have not been able to pursue diplomatic action. this will probably be more venting by russia and, you know, maybe potentially set up another visit or two by u.n. officials. it's early to say what can come out of this. russia also asking european security organization to get a hearing on what is happening there. it's not a good sign of how things are going over there. >> so it sounds publicly kind of stating its case.
nick paton walsh now to you in donetsk, what kind of reaction is coming from people in that region once they hear that the meeting would be under way? >> reporter: you know, you have to look at the timing, fredricka. this is designed to be occurring ahead of tomorrow's 9:00 local time in the morning deadline laid down by the acting president of ukraine, president turchinov. step down and you'll get amnesty otherwise a spearhead by the ukrainian army. perhaps the security council meeting, as richard was hinting, may be russia's chance to lay out its case, the abuses against protesters in subpoena rt po of moscow here in ukraine but it's really the speed at which it is being called. we know the position. the veto, as richard said, makes it very unlikely we'll see any
particularly strong decisions coming out of this meeting. perhaps this is ticking of the box. we're worried about what will happen if they move in because there are 40,000 other troops on the other side of the border and they have hinted they are quite happy to intervene if it sees protesters under threat. extraordinarily tense times ahead and no one believes that the diplomacy overnight is going to calm the atmosphere. >> a volatile sort of chess game. thank you so much, nick paton walsh as well as to richard roth. in the meantime, we're going to return to the search for flight 370. see what it is like for the team listening to those pings for hours and hours on end.
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search crews looking for flight 370 are combing through a now expanded area. the aerial search area today is 22,000 square miles. that's highlighted by the red boxes on this map. the four pings consistent with the black box, which haven't been heard since tuesday, malaysia's acting transport minister stressed how important it is to find those black boxes. and he said until they are found, no one can be cleared, even though the police have not found anything suspicious. >> that is an ongoing thing and i don't think he would have meant that they have all been cleared because unless we find more information specifically on data in the black box, i don't
think anybody will see that. >> the only way to get the critical information is to find the black boxes, wherever they may be. right now the pings heard last week are the only clue and the crew tasked with listening for those signals are trying to find them again. brian todd takes us behind the scenes of their operation. >> reporter: fredricka, no one knows their names. they spend hours and days in an isolated space often listening to nothing. but right now the techs might have the most important job in the search effort. we're hanging on what they are hearing. the hopes of finding the black boxes for flight 370 rests on a few anonymous technicians hunkered down inside of a control bunker. >> day and night, there is no break. they are pretty much on all the time and what they do is so important to us.
>> reporter: we went behind the scenes at phoenix international, the company that made the towed pinger locator. among them, sonar techs tasked with looking at monitors and listening and listening some more. >> you'll sit for days at a time and then you might hear a chiropractor but you won't hear another one. until you can duplicate it and run it back at different angles, only until then are you positive that you have it. >> reporter: and even then, experts say sound in the ocean can play so many tricks on your ears. >> several people can look at a signal and see different things. because all they are recording is sound energy. >> reporter: false positives from research equipment left in the area, from the vessel itself can also play tricks on the techs: they are good at weeding out false positives. they do it by monitoring the repetition rate and in op centers like this one on board,
they are able to block out any potential sounds. paul nelson who worked the search for flight air france 447 describes the tech work as meticulous, time devouring. >> there's two shifts. they work 12-hour shifts. so the first crew in the next team works noon to midnight. you're monitoring the weather, you're watching what is coming as far as weather, you're monitoring the seas and you're sitting in front of the screen hoping and praying that you're going to hear something. >> does it drive them a little stir crazy? >> everyone looks forward to the mealtime. that breaks up the monotomy. >> just to find that one break through in a pattern. >> everybody is so focused on this task at hand, that once you know it, it's a great feeling. it's a high. >> reporter: then it's reported
up the chain of command. top officials make the announcements that we always hear and the techs simply go back to work with us still not knowing their names. fredricka? >> brian todd, thank you so much. seeing how ard due wous this work is, how much longer can they keep up the intensity? let's bring back our panel. rob, mary, van, how do you keep the searchers motivated and encouraging and fresh? i wonder, captain gurley, how do you keep them motivated? >> well, these are professionals and this is the kind of job they love to be able to solve for us all. i was on submarines using technology and you rotate folks through. every couple of half hour or so that you don't have somebody sort of zone out on the stack. you've got to stay fresh and alert because you never know when those signals will pop into
the headphones. >> mary, we're talking about day 38, though. it seems like that sounds simple maybe when you have a couple of weeks or a couple of days and now you're talking day 38. is there going to be a concern or worry that you have to find more personnel to swap out, to change these schedules? >> well, i think that is true and there are also some hints about what is coming next when united states sent in and agreed to provide a logistic ship, the "cesar chavez" and that's kind of a big gas station and supermarket tied into one ship. and so they will be able to refuel, refresh, repair things, supply tools, fuel, all of that. and so that will be a big help for operations in the area. particularly for the next step when the support crew will be out there for, you know, a long, extended period. that's the way that others can
help and the united states certainly is. >> be borks ob, in the meantimee with a commodore who said that the biggest problem is complacency. until the additional assets are in place, that is gb to be a big aspect for that, complacency. >> well, i think that's obviously a potential issue but from the sound of what we see and have seen up until now, the motivation of these folks, it doesn't seem to be veering towards complacency. but it becomes a question of proper management and proper leadership. that's what these folks do for -- do for a living and i would -- i would think
complacency would be a long way from where we are now. >> and rob, when it comes down to reviewing a lot of the data that has been collected or even data that continues to change, whether it be the current data that they are seeing in the ocean, at what point will some third parties perhaps be involved in maybe all of this can't be done on the ships that are right there but maybe you have to second -- check this a second time or a third time with some other assets that are involved or perhaps even on land. at what stage and at what point will that happen? >> well, for the actual search itself, you see the continuation of the aerial search for just the smallest trace of debris. you know, that's a very good first step because that brings physical, tangible evidence that we're in the right place. but the only other thing that we can do now is to go down and to start scanning the sea floor
around those pinger locations because that's the only other bit of evidence that we've got. once we do that, then we'll move into the next phase, which is to work out whether there is something nearby the pingers, whether it's verified or whether we need to go to a much wider area around the pingers. >> rob, van, bob, mary, thank you. appreciate that. next, we speak to a man who shares his perspective on the search. hear why james cameron says the ocean depth is not the only problem. gunderman group. gunderman group is growing. getting in a groove. growth is gratifying. goal is to grow. gotta get greater growth. growth? growth. i just talked to ups. they've got a lot of great ideas. like smart pick ups. they'll only show up when you print a label and it's automatic. we save time and money. time? money?
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one big challenge in searching for flight 370 is the deep ocean. a person with some insight is underwater explorer james cameron. he spoke with cnn's jake tapper. >> three miles down you've got a tremendous amount of pressure. that's the sort of depth of the titanic and bismarck wreck. any vehicle that can go down there has to be able to withstand the external forces and you have three miles of water that you have to communicate through. you have to communicate by sound or by fiber optic cable. >> and one thing this story does
tell is something that you talk about all the time, which is how little we know about our own oceans. do you think that society should be devoting more energy and resources to studying deep sea topography? >> i think we need to know more about the oceans in realtime. we need to know more about what is happening in the water column that he feeds in to climate modeling and all of the other stuff. the ocean is a vast volume. you know, the land, he can see the surface of the land from orbit. you can google just about any spot on the surface of the land. but the ocean has depth. three miles down to seven miles. and soi it's this huge volume full of chemical reactions and that's where the carbon is going and where the temperature is being controlled. all of those things. >> you can see more of james cameron's interview with jake tapper at cnn.com. later this month, the president of the united states plans to visit malaysia. he was hoping to point to
malaysia as the mostly muslim nation that is ramping up economically, opening up politically, kind of give them a little bit of shout out. well, that's tougher now. whether they have found the plane or not by the time the president arrives. here is cnn's joe johns. >> reporter: last october, u.s. president barack obama postponed a trip to malaysia due to washington government's shutdown crisis. now as he prepares for his visit later this month, malaysia is reeling from a crisis of its own. the missing airliner, flight mh-370 has thrust this country into the spotlight and the government that has controlled for decades on the defensive. the forces of mass media carefully controlled in the past are beginning to assert themselves in new ways. it's rush hour in kuala lumpur and even dry talk radio at this
eng english language chatter about the plane. >> we're asking you one month since the disappearance of flight mh-370, what kind of impact do you feel it has had on malaysia? >> reporter: calls talk about the contradictory message. >> the country needs to have more cohesive story. >> reporter: the constant drumbeat in newspapers and social media is starting to take a toll on the government. >> i think they have a bad perception of the people in charge of this incident. >> people have been outraged. people have been upset. there's a lot of empathy and sympathy and frustration. >> reporter: a recent poll showed that 50% of respondents are dissatisfied with the conduct and 7% are were not
sure. >> it's a government that has been respected by the people and i think this crisis has brought about a kind of realization of the limits of the capacity of the malaysian government in handling this particular crisis. >> reporter: while the polling numbers track with attitudes in malaysia's area, the intensely focused attention to the government sometimes uneven handling of the crisis is still a wake-up call for the country's leaders who point out that none of this is easy. >> the search operations is very difficult, challenging, and complex. but in spite of all this, our determination remains undiminished. >> they are requiring more from our leaders than five, six years ago. >> reporter: joe johns, cnn, kuala lumpur, malaysia. and somewhere within the deep ocean is possibly the black boxes. next, how black boxes have helped solve other airline tragedies. ♪
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other recent airline tragedies. here's randi kaye. >> reporter: the concord jet takes off from paris. this terrifying video shows the plane on fire as it leaves the runway. the control tower radios the pilots. 4590, you have strong flames behind you. moments later, they crash into a hotel killing all 109 on board. the plane's black boxes are recovered. >> translator: both boxes are in good state to be decrypted. we have to understand what the data mean. >> reporter: the cockpit voice recorder unveils the pilot's last word. the co-pilot tells the captain to land. his response, too late. the black boxes also reveal a catastrophic fire in one engine and a loss of power in another.
air france flight 447 caught in a powerful storm and rolling to the right. it is june 2009. a flight from rio to paris. 228 people on board. the plane begins to fall 10,000 per minute and crashes into the atlantic belly first killing everyone. >> this is a big deal. this is what we are looking for. in the middle of the atlantic ocean. >> reporter: two years later they found the black boxes deep in the ocean. before the recovery, it was thought the speed sensors were to blame but the pilots were at fault. a transcript from the voice recorder shows confusion in the cockpit. we still have engines. what the hell is happening, a cospy lot asks. another says, climb, climb, climb. and then the captain, no, no, no. don't climb. in february, 2009, flight 3407 also stalls and disappears off
radar. >> now approaching. >> delta 1998 look off your right side about five miles. do you see anything there? >> reporter: the plane's speed drops low. it begins to dive in heavy snow. the pilot overreacts. a fatal mistake. >> obviously, the initial reaction to the stall warning was incorrect. >> reporter: the jet crashes into a home in buffalo, new york, killing all 49 people on board. >> we put our lives in the hands of people that we assume that the faa is -- and the airlines are properly training. >> reporter: both black boxes die vul nlg panic in the cockpit as the plane tumbles toward the ground. pilot marvin says, jesus christ, and we're down. first officer rebecca shaw starts to say something but is cut short by her own scream.
>> black boxes reveal the airplane pitched and rolled and the pilots were joking around as the plane slowed. in the final minutes before tragedy struck. randi kaye, cnn, new york. coming up at the top of the hour, very latest on the search for flight 370, the hunt for that fading signal is getting more intense and the search for debris is expanding, as well. we' we'll go live to australia for the latest. you won't have to wait much longer. the show is back. joining us for a preview of what we're going to see this season of "parts unknown," anthony bourdain. all right. good to see you. your first stop this season, india. we know the food is a hit. we are talking about amazing spices at the same time and a region that can be a little spicy, too, right along the pakistan border. what was this journey like?
>> well, the food was, indeed, spectacular. the colors in the punjab are extraordinary. it was a very, very beautiful part of an already beautiful country and we looked at, you know, in the course of just eating and looking into the far away past, the present kept intruding and it is a contentious part of the world. the relations between -- along that border informed a lot of the problems in the entire region. we see -- all of us see it, feel it, hear it, live with it every day to a great extent. we looked at that a little bit right where it mattered. >> there was a free community vegetarian restaurant there, as well. describe that experience. >> well, it's the golden temple and it is essentially -- it's the holiest spot in the sikh religion and every day for i think about a century, quite
sometime, many, many decades, volunteers have been cooking tens of thousands of free meals for any and all of any faith and of any income level to come and eat and enjoy a simple meal. >> all right. sounds so great. don't miss the season premier of "parts unknown" tonight 9:00 right here on cnn. co: sometimes you don't know you need a hotel room until you're sure you do. bartender: thanks, captain obvious. co: which is why i put the hotels.com mobile app on my mobile phone. anyone need a coupon? i don't.
all right. welcome back. following breaking nulls out of kansas now. we understand that the overland park fire department is telling our affiliate there, kctv, that police are working on two shootings taking place at two separate jewish related locations. they're reporting a shooting happened around 1:00 at the jewish community center of greater kansas city and then a second shooting took place at the village she loilom. no word on injuries or suspect in custody. on the phone with us is lisa benson, a reporter with our cnn affiliate kshb.
so lisa, tell us more about this investigation. two separate investigations? >> that is true. right now, we are live outside the jewish community center in overland park and we have confirmed that two people have been shot. one at the jewish community center and one at shiloam center. two people dead. we know one other person was taken to the hospital in critical condition and we are told one person in custody so right now we're definitely right now still collecting more information and the shot, the gun fire started about 1:45 this afternoon and then holding auditions for casey superstars which is a dance competition here locally and also having dance recitals for 7 and 8-year-olds so it's a community center full of young teens and they were on lockdown after the shots started. some of the kids were taken into lockeroo