tv At This Hour With Berman and Michaela CNN April 14, 2014 8:00am-9:01am PDT
get through these injuries. you certainly hope he can win at least one more, maybe a couple. he would like four more to break jack nicklaus's record. we'll have to see, he's 38 years old. >> thank you for joining me. @this hour with berman and michaela starts right now. the listening ends, under water scanning begins, marking a new phase in the hunt for flight 370. also a suspect with a history of hate, this man accused of going on a deadly rampage, killing three people, two of them in kansas. pro-russian protestors refuse to abandon the government buildings that they've been occupying, in fact, they've taken over another one. >> hi there, i'm one half of the
pereira, berman duo, john is off today. it's 11:00 a.m. in the east. that means it's 8:00 a.m. bright and early in the west. we start with the search for flight 370. it moves deep under water now. 38 days after the jetliner vanished without a trace, a robotic submarine was launched just hours ago. it's starting to scan and map the floor of the indian ocean looking for any sign of wreckage. the bluefin-21 will use sonar to map the sea floor. searching this entire area could take as long as two months. an gus houston says it's the best option. >> the deployment of the autonomous underwater vehicle has the potential to take us a further step towards visual identification since it offers a possible opportunity to detect
debris from the aircraft on ocean floor. >> also announcing at that point an oil slick was spotted in the search zone. the source of that oil slick has not been determined. a sample has been taken. it will be tested. let's take you straight to perth, australia, where the search is being coordinated. the decision to launch the bluefin-21 because no pings have been detected for six days. what is the plan for this under water sub? >> reporter: it's going to be gone down on these 24-hour missions. it takes two hours just to get to the bottom. it's almost three miles down. it's going to be hovering about 100 feet above the ocean's surface using that side scan sonar technology to map out the bottom of the ocean floor. then it takes another two hours to get back up after spending 16 hours below. all that time what they're doing on the ocean shield is just
has been spotted, what's the sense that you are getting from the search crews? are they feeling frustrated? what's the feeling amongst them? >> reporter: the sense we're getting and really for the first time today the language about the visual search has changed dramatically. a chatted with chief houston and an oceanographer who said the chances of finding debris floating on the surface of the water is slim. there was a tropical cyclone that moved into the area. they think that most of the stuff has probably sunk to the bottom which makes this underwater search that's happening right now so much more critical. >> will ripley, thank you for that. we want to bring in mary schiavo. can you explain to us about how this bluefin-21 sub works. will ripley telling us it's a very slow process.
i've heard it likened to a roomba of the sea, like mowing the lawn. >> for those of us with roombas know it looks more than a pin ball. they kind of move random back and forth. you can't really see the pattern that's locked into that machine. it's more like an automatic lawnmower, if you can imagine it moving back and forth methodically. they have to be able to identify which square, which block, they have spotted something. when they bring the bluefin-21 back up, they will download the data and look at the sonogram. it will look like a sonogram. if they see anything of interest, and remember square angles and boxes and things like that don't appear in nature. so they'll be able to spot it. that's why it's so methodical and just square by square will map the ocean floor. >> so they take that information back to base, jeff, and they look at the data that mary is talking about from that sweep. how do experts know what they're
looking at? how can they know that they're looking at potentially a piece of debris? >> what you're going to hope to find is a debris field. this is what happened with air france 477. they found an oval pattern across the floor but it really looks like something. even though they're using sound, the way the data is processed, it looks like a picture. it's slightly distorted because you're looking at it sideways, but it really does look like something -- if there's a piece that's definable like a tail fin or a piece of landing gear it will look like that. >> does it tend to settle in close proximity to one another? we know the current in that deep ocean, there are a lot of things that play. >> less so the depth. most of the current are just below the surface of the water. what happens is presumably the
plane, assuming this is what happened, the plane breaks up and then you have a rain of metal in parts falling down to the bottom. some parts will float away but the heavy parts will sort of filter down and come to rest in sort of a circular or elliptical pattern. >> then it's a case of getting to that debris, picking it up, taking it to shore and analyzing it there. mary, next hour i want to talk about that oil slick because that potentially could be a lead. i want to plant that in your brain, we'll come back and talk about the oil slick that ang gus mentioned and if that promises to be any lead. jeff wise marc weiss and mary, to stick around also. you can tweet a question to mary and jeff. use the hashtag 370qs. we're on facebook/ @this hour. we're going to return to our coverage of the missing plane
but let's look at a look at some other stories happening at this hour. in kansas the federal government is looking into whether a federal hate crime law applies in the shooting of three people. people say frazier glen miller has tied to white supremacist groups. pro-russian protestors have taken over goflt buildings in nine cities. the stalemate continues. today a new wrinkle, ukraine's acting president is raising the possibility of a national referendum on keeping ukraine independent and united. the necessatsb is trying toe out if fatigue, distraction or other issues led to that fiery
crash in california that killed ten people. authorities are looking into the last 72 hours, into whether he had enough rest or perhaps he was using his cell phone when he plowed head on into a bus full of college students. ten people died and more than 30 injured. at least five tornados in texas touched down. the sheriff's office reports buildings and mobile homes were damaged. one person was injured. another twister hit near steven, oklahoma. three more in iowa. ahead, the president weighs in on the shooting spree in kansas. the suspect is being described as a white supremacist. we're going to bring you a live report just ahead. ke multi-layed security solution to keep your information safe & secure.
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the man accused of opening fire at two jewish facilities in kansas is due in court today. 73-year-old frazier glenn miller is a former ku klux klan leader with a history of anti-semitism. three people were killed and the justice department is looking into whether federal hate crime laws apply in this case. in fact, president obama spoke a short while ago at an easter prayer breakfast. >> that this occured now has jews were preparing to celebrate passover, as christians were observing palm sunday, makes this tragedy all the more painful and today as passover begins, we're seeing a number of synagogues and jewish community
centers take added security precautions. nobody should have to worry about their security when gathering with their fellow believers. no one should ever have to fear for their safety when they go to pray. >> nobody should have to fear for their safety when they go to pray. the shooting has stunned the community and the nation. most of all, one woman, she is coping with unbearable surveillance row. why? her father was taking her son to a singing audition and both of them were killed. she shared her story at a vigil to honor the victims. >> i'm the daughter of the gentleman who was killed and i'm the mother of the son who was killed. and i want to tell you how much i appreciate you all being here. i heard there was going to be a vigil and we all grieve in different ways. and i just wanted to tell people
thank you. >> her composure and strength is remarkable. our george howell is in overland park, kansas. we can only imagine how much that community is reeling. >> reporter: it's so hard to hear that sound that you played just a minute ago. you're talking about people who were going about their regular daily routines and then this happened, people were forced to get on the ground to get out of harm's way when shots rang out. what we know at this point, we do expect to hear from investigators here within the next hour to get more information about where the investigation stands right now. we also know the names of the victims as you mentioned the woman who lost her son and her father. we know that this happened earlier and we know the names now, 14-year-old reed underwood. he was here, a 14-year-old boy with many here teenagers here for a singing competition. his grandfather was also here, william corporan.
he was here to support his grandfather. there was another shooting about a mile away from us at a retirement home, a woman whose name hasn't been released but she was shot and killed in this situation. we're still waiting to get more information from investigators. >> this guy had quite a history. according to the southern poverty law center, he was the founder and the former leader of two hate groups but what's odd, i think, to so many people is that he kind of went underground and only been active in social media in recent years. >> reporter: it seems he went undergrount after prison but started putting more hate speech online. we're starting to see more of that online and now we're seeing what happened here. you listen to what witnesses say. they say he went over here and talked to people and asked them if they were jewish. we also heard from our affiliate
video that neo nazi slogan that he uttered while he was in the back of the police car. attorney general eric holder is looking into the possibility, asking the justice department to see whether federal hate crime laws would apply to this case, and we know that investigators, they are also going through all the statements, all the evidence that they have gathered to see where this case goes from here. >> so many young people there for the audition, for the music. they're going to need some support from the community. hopefully they'll be getting the counseling from both the church and from maybe their schools. george howell with the latest there. i think the whole nation mourns with them. thanks for that report. ahead at this hour, back to our top story. searchers are looking instead of listening for signs of flight 370. an unmanned sub is scanning and mapping the ocean floor. officials are cautioning though, don't get your hopes up. why they're being so cautious. we'll talk about that next.
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i would caution you against raising hopes that the deployment of the autonomous underwater vehicle will result in the detection of the aircraft wreckage. it may not. however, this is the best lead we have, and it must be pursued vigorously. again, i emphasize that this will be a slow and painstaking process. >> you heard angus houston there saying a slow and long, painstaking process that might turn up nothing. australian officials clearly not
wanting to get people's hopes up as an unmanned sub scans the bottom of the ocean for flight 370. we want to bring back our aviation analysts. we'll get to the cautious tone in a minute because i think that's important. mary, i want to talk about this other piece of news that came out of angus houston's comments about the oil slick that was detected sunday evening in the current search area. what does that say to you? does it give you hope that this might be a sign of flight 370? >> well, it could be, but at this far removed date from the crash of the plane and that's where it would be very close to where the plane is presumed to have gone into the water, we would expect to see it further away. but it's really worthwhile collecting the sample like they did and testing it because the fuels and the oils and the lubricants are very specific to aircraft.
you have jet a fuel and lubricants that have to be approved by the manufacturer so they have a special component and merchandianufacturing proce they will know right away whether it's fuel lubricants. they will be unique to the plane. >> there are so many people involved in this search. people that understand how these properties change in the ocean, what happened to them over time. we heard angus houston saying, look, everybody just take a breath. we want to take caution and say just because we're using the bluefin doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to find something. also we really was cautious in the way he talked about the area itself. once again, talking to us about this area being a search area that is new to man. >> right. it's very interesting. we're trying to parse the significance of this tone. last week he was on a very different note really saying he was very optimistic that this
was, in fact, mh 370, really raising hopes. then we had day after day go without further pings and it seems we're in a different place emotionally right now. bear in mind also that the prime minister of australia went to china, spoke with the premiere there and he bore this message of hope, very crucial given that over 150 of the passengers are from china. there was a very hot emotional issue, bears directly on relations between australia and china, between malaysia and china. so it's very freighted, very important. >> so much at play here. mary, when we talk about some of the announcements that were made at the press conference earlier on sunday, the notion that the surface search could be coming to an end, what does that tell you given the investigations you've been involved in? what does that say to you? >> well, it's just that so much time has passed since the plane would have entered the water that they're just using a lot of resources, a lot of personnel, a
lot of time to search when really the current and the waves would have moved things far away. they've gotten the pings, they've gotten the four pings. at this point they're going to go under water and look. if they find it they don't need the wreckage that floated away. they need to find what's under the surface. they'll have to take the next step in they don't find the wresage there. if this is the place and they have the black boxes, searching for the wreckage on top of the water won't help anything. >> do you think that maybe the organized effort would end on the surface and the air search and some private money would say we're going to keep looking to get these families some answers? >> it could and it has in other accidents in the past. while governments don't usually charge or go after the airline to pay for the search and rescue or search and recovery, that's not unprecedented. there have been accidents in the past. there was one in indonesia where
they went after the airline to have them pay for the search and rescue. you have private money, insurance money and of course governments that usually don't seek a reimbursement but that's not always a given. it's hard to say in the end who will foot all the bills. it's important to keep track because then we can say, it costs that much. let's make improvements so we don't have to spend that much again. >> there are so many questions about what will be done next time. there's the hope that we won't see this kind of scenario happen again, but certainly there are lessons to be learned. jeff wise and mary schiavo are going to answer some of your questions. tweet them hashtag 370 qs. we're on facebook if you want to connect with us that way as well. ahead at this hour, an
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sonar to produce a three dmenal map of the sea floor. each mission takes 24 hours to complete. so searching the entire area could take as long as two months. with the bluefin in, the towed pinger located is out because no pings have been detected in six days. authorities say only one device can search under water at a time. also today authorities announced that an oil slick has been spotted in the search zone but the source has not been determined and a sample will be tested. so many questions for cnn's safety analyst, author of the book why planes crash. good to have you with us. i have so many questions. i hardly know where to start. you and i were chatting off camera. we heard angus houston from australia urging caution and saying, it's going to take some time. you're optimistic. >> i am because i can be. he's not in a position where he
can. he's been very good about this. i've been saying before about accident investigations. the key to a good investigation is not to draw conclusions for people but to provide them with the facts which he has done. he's done a really good job of that. i really admire him for how he handled that. >> so why are the facts making you feel positive? >> he's not drawing a conclusion based on the facts but what i'm looking at is that for two hours they received a solid ping. all these other pings that they have received are artifacts. they're not solid. they're not saying, i'm here. i did some math. we did some calculations and based on a three-mile radius of that ping, we're going to say it's somewhere within three miles from that solid line that went through. so you visualize a dome around that pinger, so somewhere in that dome is this two-mile stretch. so if you look at it with two different options, it's either on this side of that stretch or
the other side of that stretch. >> you feel that the bluefin is going to see something? >> i do. the only limitation with the bluefin is it's altitude -- depth. i'm used to altitude. at its depth i've heard from other experts in this field it's going to have a faint image. the sonar is not going to be crisp because it will be about 1500 feet off the bottom of that ocean. >> a faint image of something is better than no image. >> that's why i'm confident. because we haven't seen debris i'm confident that we've got some pretty big pieces in there. the fact that it's that far off the ground and that it's going to have the sonar on it, i think the fact that we'll have some big pieces down there, i think we're going to learn quickly what's down there. >> the oil slick, is it something to you or not? >> you can learn a lot from oil slicks, particularly on this airplane. this airplane has specific oils that they use in it and it has an oil-to-fuel cooler.
it controls the temperature of the cool through using the fuel to keep it cool. if you have a rupture of the oil, most likely it's going to have fuel with it as well. so you can learn a lot from that. if it's not that it's probably hydraulic fluid which in this it's nonflammable. it's not what you use in a ship. >> the testing, is that a fairly quick turn around? >> i've heard it's about four hours. i don't know if that's on board the ship. they might have to get that back to the land. >> we've been talking so much about what we can learn from this. there are many lessons to be learned. at this stage in the investigation, 38 days in, with the deployment of the various technologies they're using, do you think we'll learn something for next time about how soon to deploy some of this technology, about how to use some of these technology? >> i think what we've learned more about rather than this post accident investigation, we've learned more about what we can do to prevent it. >> which is the more important aspect. >> absolutely it is. i'm so impressed with the
international aviation community. just after we started working on this and making known a few things like the 30-day pingers, why didn't we do something about that and now i've heard from my connections in the airlines that they're already saying even though it's not mandated, even though the regulations haven't been put in place, it's only for aircraft from 2015 forward, they've already started doing it. >> that's great. >> isn't that awesome? >> that's impressive. >> it puts them in a situation saying we knew we would have done this and now we're doing it. i'm very proud of our community. >> it's going to be interesting to see what more comes out of this on all levels, search and rescue, investigation, communication between nations. we've seen that being criticize. thank you so much for that. good to have you with us. >> thank you, michaela. we're answering questions about the search and the mysteries the surrounding this flight. tweet your questions or look us up on facebook. you can like us.
let's get a look at some of the other stories happening at this hour. in kansas families gathered for an emotional vigil, three people were gunned down when a gunman opened fire on two jewish facilities. the suspect, frazier glenn allen is due in court today. officials say the 73-year-old has long-held ties to white supremacist groups and the justice department is looking to see if a federal hate crime law applies in this case. tempers have cooled finally over a cattle dispute that threatened to turn violent in nevada. the bureau of land management started rounding up cattle owned by a family that's been ranching since the 1800s. they say his cattle were grazing illegally and that he owned about a billion dollars in back fees. rather than risk violence, the blm called off the roundup and returned 300 head of cattle.
a san francisco 49ers football player has been arrested for allegedly making a bomb threat at lax. police say alden smith became belligerent, hinting he had a bomb. police took smith into custody after they say he refused to cooperate. the team's general manager told the sacramento newspaper they're disappointed but they're not going to further comment. wildlife officers in central florida shot and killed a bear they believe mauled a woman outside her home. her husband said she encountered five bears going through her trash and he attacked her. she's recovering from bite marks to her head, arm and leg and three other bears were trapped and also put down. a break ahead. the search for flight 370 moves deeper under water and we're going to take a look at the conditions bluefin-21 would have to deal with deep down. our needs
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so a side scan sonar sends out an acoustic signal in the water and listens for it to bounce back and return to the sonar. >> after 38 days the search for flight 370 moves deep under water now. i want to show you the bluefin-21 submarine. we have graph cal images of it here. it's going to start scanning the area on the ocean floor where the pings were heard. tom foreman is in washington and joins us to give us an idea of how of this and how it works. tom? >> hi michaela. the bluefin is a remarkable piece of technology. so far we've seen the tow pinger locator so we can listen below the surface. with the bluefin you're talking about getting down here and moving around.
it's not listening at all. it's mapping by sending sonic signals and recording what comes back in an elaborate and fancy way. it goes about two and a half miles down and back and forth in a long, slow process and downloads all that data. when it works properly, when you get hit in the right position, it produces remarkable images of what the ocean looks like in that area. >> this is the thing that's so interesting that we've been hearing from the very beginning of the search that this is an inaccessible area and angus houston adding that this area is new to man. we know very little about it. >> it's like a lot of the deep ocean. there are many places we don't know a whole lot about. once you get down there you're in the deep ocean. that's for sure. in terms of depth, the general area we're talking about can be anywhere from 1.5 miles to, say,
three miles, three-plus miles down. down at this level it's just above freezing. the water pressure is incredibly intense. there's no light at all. so this is operating in a very inhos pitable environment. it's actually very calm down here. that's one of the good points. once they get a sense of what's going on on the floor, once it gets down there and starts taking pictures, we will have a picture of the floor down here and it's nice and calm down here. part of what makes this so inhos pitible though is this range of operation. it has to be operated on the surface by a boat up here. the ship on the surface will have to deploy, operate, and retrieve this thing in conditions that can often be very rough up here. all of which can significantly affect its ability to operate down here with the bluefin. so even though we're talking about a process that can take
days or weeks, all you have to do is have some moderate storms come through and you'll lose day after day after day because they can't put this technology in there if they can't support it up here. >> we already saw how weather played a factor in delaying the search early on. hopefully it won't be a factor going forward. tom foreman, thanks so much for that. things are certainly getting intense in the ukraine. pro-russian protestors ignored a deadline to abandon government buildings they had seized. the question is what happens next. ♪ to do it my way ♪ i got a lock on equities ♪ that's why i'm type e ♪ ♪ that's why i'm tyyyyype eeeee, ♪ ♪ i can do it all from my mobile phone ♪ ♪ that's why i'm tyyyyype eeeee, ♪ ♪ if i need some help i'm not alone ♪ ♪ we're all tyyyyype eeeee, ♪ ♪ we've got a place that we call home ♪ ♪ we're all type e ♪
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at this hour just into the newsroom, a russian military plane came very close to a u.s. warship in the black sea. barbara starr is at the pentagon to give us an idea of what we know. >> reporter: news just coming here at the pentagon about this encounter that actually happened on saturday. a russian air force su-24 came very close, made 12 passes over a 90-minute period near the uss donald cook which is on training and maneuvers in the black sea. of course this is all about ukraine. the u.s. navy has put a ship into the black sea to reassure the european allies there that are nervous about russia's moves about ukraine. on saturday the russians
apparently responded making those 12 passes alongside the donald cook. we are told the russian plane didn't fly directly over the deck of the u.s. navy warship but flew close enough to get the attention that the ship called and tried to reach the cockpit and say back off. the pentagon this morning calling this provocative and unprofessional. no indication that the fighter jet had missiles under its wings but this is the kind of military activity that the u.s. does not like to see of course because when forces get too close to each other you can have accidents. you can have >> heightened tensions clearly being seen as a provocation. barbara starr, thank you so much for that. we want to stay with the situation in russia now where pro-russian protesters in ukraine have taken over a police
building. this is the tenth town in eastern ukraine where they've occupied government buildings. they're ignoring a government deadline to put down their weapons and get out of those buildings or face a major anti-terror operation. while things have been getting rougher on the streets there's been no major confrontation yet. nick paton walsh is in donetsk. people are wondering how long this standoff can continue. >> well, it seems to be getting worse. i should just give you something we've noticed very strangely here in the city center of doan donet donetsk. but of course that just reminds people quite how on edge this entire region is. we saw this morning a deadline pass which the interim president of ukraine said the protesters had to give up their weapons and
give up the buildings they've been occupying. no indication they're doing that at all. we heard from kiev that they might consider a referendum on the future of eastern ukraine oddly to be held on the same day as the presidential election. surely confusing short for voters. we see those protesters moving further towards the buildings, two or three more towns were reporting difficulties. an extremely tense situation here. i've just been to the local regional administration here in donetsk in the city center. it's clear they're not even expecting a siege from police any more. ukrainian police officers walking calmly past. as we hear this messy respond from kiev where is the ukrainian government in all of this? >> it's actually mikaela. we know from afar it's difficult to tell the voices. not a problem. stay safe.
ahead of this hour, back to our top story, why did search crews work so long to drop the sub into the water to look for flight 370. ♪ [ male announcer ] when fixed income experts... ♪ ...work with equity experts... ♪ ...who work with regional experts... ♪ ...who work with portfolio management experts, that's when expertise happens. mfs. because there is no expertise without collaboration.
. welcome back. so glad you've been getting in on the conversation. joining us with questions on facebook and twitter. let's bring back our aviation analysts and you guys can tackle some of them. mary, why don't we start with you. let's start with the blue fin unmanned sub that was dropped in the search area this morning. question, why did they wait so long to deploy it? >> they waited so long to deploy the blue fin 21 because they wanted to get every last ounce of intelligence out of those pingers. they didn't want to pass up the opportunity to narrow in the
search zone by finding pinging whatsoever. they were delayed by both the malaysian and civil military radar lost track of the plane. whatever time they did have once they got the inmarsat data, they had to make the best use of it possible. they wrung every ounce of battery juice they could. >> they certainly did. all right, jeff, the next one to you. what's the difference between the blue fin 21 sonar and the submarine sonar. why can't a submarine do the work faster? >> a submarine is a vessel filled with people and designed to travel through the open sea. a larger and more cumbersome piece of equipment. this blue fin is an autonomous underwater vehicle. you can program it to follow closely the contours of the subsurface area. you don't have to worry so much about losing it if it runs into something underneath the water. it was likened to a roomba earlier. it is designed to go back and forth, it is suited to the task at hand.
>> another question coming in, this one's from twitter. why don't cabin crews have a way to send distress call from outside the cockpit in case an incident occurs inside the cockpit? >> what a great question. you know, we struggled with that. i worked on the 9/11 cases for 11 years. and one of the key pieces of information we had were phone calls from flight attendants who used the gte air phones and their cell phones to get information out. but there was a lot of disagreement over what kind of communications they wanted to keep, the communications and really the command central, if you will, in the flight deck. but oh, my goodness, those flight attendants worked mightily to get us intelligence on what they had. it's still that way, unfortunately. >> do you think there will be a change because of this? >> well, probably not. i think they will still center the communications central in the flight deck, but i do think they will lengthen
communications capability between the cabin and the flight deck. and i think that they will have streaming data. we must have streaming data from this point forward. there's just no excuse for this frantic search on the bottom of the ocean. >> jeff, we'll put the last question to you. i think it's a question that many of us have considered. when will the search be considered a failure? this person who put this don mont said, i think this plane is lost forever. >> that's really the million dollar question right now. i was surprised to hear they decide to call off the surface search. there's still a huge amount of ocean they haven't looked at. as for this underwater search, the area where the pings were found is actually itself rather small. should be a matter of a day or two's work for this blue fin to search that area and find out if anything's there. we heard that the australians are preparing us to engage in a long drawn-out process. what that exactly would involve, it's not entirely clear. the search area will clearly be
banfield. it is monday, april 14th. we begin with breaking news right off the top. a missing malaysian airliner 370, news about the co-pilot's cell phone and the possibility that it was on midair. u.s. officials with firsthand knowledge of the investigation say the malaysian officials have shared data with u.s. investigators including a cell tower near panang, 250 miles away from where the transponder stopped working detected the co-pilot's cell phone searching for service. there is no evidence an actual phone call was made or attempted by the co-pilot. important to emphasize there. again, sources telling us that a cell tower near panang detected the co-pilot's cell phone which indicates that cell phone was on and reaffirms the radar data that that plane did turn around. we want to