tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN April 16, 2014 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
p.m. here, and 8:00 a.m. off the coast of australia, where the search is running into trouble and doubts about the entire effort are growing. new glitches about the bluefin-21. and new questions about there is only one of them in the water and new questions about the cell phone signals and the aircraft itself. is it even conceivable that the pilot's phone was the only one transmitti transmitting or are they holding something back? a crucial 24 hours ahead as we have all the angles on that. also tonight, survivors on the sinking ferry in south korea say they were told to stay put, don't go for the life boats, now's hundrnow hundreds of them are missing, the race tonight to see if anybody is still possibly alive. and we'll take you to ukraine for the latest on
russian moves and western moves. again tonight we have a lot to cover. let's begin with flight 370 and the bluefin-21. finding the boeing triple 7 depends on the bluefin which could be a problem. the breaking news, it is just back from a third mission, the first full outing after the mission was cut short. michael holmes joins us from headquarters from perth, australia, so tell us about this third time in the water. >> reporter: yeah, third time is a charm. that is right, anderson, it is back after a first complete mission. you remember the other two missio missions, the first one cut short because of a failsafe mechanism in the bluefin that told it when it got to 4500 meters to come back up. they fixed that software problem and now it can go as far as 5,000 meters. the second problem that cut short mission number two was a bit of an oil leak in the bluefin. again, the searchers are not that worried about it. they say it was not that big of
a deal. they pulled it up, fixed it. and sent it back down. in all they covered about 35 square miles of the ocean floor down there. and once they have downloaded this latest data, they will send it back down again. >> and in terms of analyzing the data, there is still no information on what they got on this third trip? not yet, they do tend to release it quickly. the first two missions they say nothing of significance in the data. now, we'll remember the first time they went down there that is the area they really want to search. and it was cut short because the bluefin thought it was a little bit too deep for it to go. they were told it was okay for it to go that deep. they worked out that the depth there is about 4600 meters. so they are going to send it down and go over that area again
at some point. because of course, that is where the pings that were most promising were. anderson? >> the oil that they collected near the ocean shield a few days ago that they believe was oil, any word if it is from the plane? >> reporter: not yet word on whether or not it was from the plane. and we do expect to hear shortly, the sounds they got, a thousand miles offshore. what they did was send an australian naval vessel out towards that area until it was close enough to come in and bring that sample. the ship then came close enough for the helicopter to come to shore. so that took a bit of time. it is being analyzed as we speak. and we hope to get more information in the next few hours. meanwhile, the search in air and sea is continuing. >> all right, late word just in from the u.s. navy which
confirms the underwater search is just happening, and the one detected at 9:27 p.m., detected for 13 minutes, a significant amount of time. let's dig deep on the possibility that because of them it would help to have more of them. tom foreman has been exploring that angle. he has more. tom? >> reporter: hey, anderson, the effort above the water has involved dozens of planes and ships going back and forth. so why not apply the exact same thing below the water? we have been talking about how this bluefin will go back and forth mapping the bottom with a sonic signal. basically they call it mowing the grass, that is the term they use as it makes its way back and forth. so why not add another? maybe five or ten or 20 of them? why not have them working altogether because if that is the case couldn't you get it done a lot faster than weeks or months? not really, and here is why, there is a question of
availability. there are only about 100 of these bluefins in the world right now. and this one being used right now costs about three and a half million dollars. so to get them all assembled, you would have to have governments and resources. secondly, you would need support for all of these. each one would require a team of experts who know how to program it, operate it, launch it, retrieve it. get the data off of it. bear in mind this weighs about 1700 pounds. just putting it into the water and retrieving it each time is like putting a small automobile in and out. that is not easy. and lastly, there is the issue we come back to many times. we talk about this as if it is a billiard table where things are going back and forth easily. coordinating that is hard enough. but the real terrain is harder, with hills and valleys that compromise the ability to
coordinate with each other on planes. all of this makes this seemingly good idea maybe one that is completely unworkable. >> all right, tom, thank you very much. and there is growing recognition that the current operation may not last long until the current administration decides to try something different. and prime minister tony abbott says we believe it could go on a week or so. we will simply move to another phase if that does not work. and what constitutes a plan b, if there is one. also former transportation department mary schiavo who currently represents accident victims and their families. richard, what about what the australian prime minister is
saying? if they regroup, they will railroad consider, what exactly does that mean? >> well, it means if you have not found anything in the area where you were most promising to find something, and houston basically said it is around the ping that gave the strongest signal, which we now know this evening was the second ping. if you haven't found anything in that vicinity you have got to really seriously question is it worth keeping going to the first and the third and the fourth? and that is when you have to re-think the strategy. >> jeffrey, you have been talking to your sources there. do you have any special insight into what the prime minister meant? i mean, is there really a plan b? >> look, i think there is a very strong prediction, the way they are looking right now is where the airplane is. that is the undercurrent that i get to the number of people that i speak to on this issue. plan b, they're talking about if it is deeper than the four and a
half thousand meters, significantly deeper than the four and a half thousand meters, they will have to get vehicles that go significantly deeper. but i believe there is a strong conviction they are in the right place, the final resting place of the aircraft vehicle. i mean, as far as going deeper, i'm not sure what that plan b might be because they're pretty certain it is where they're looking. >> jeffrey, i know you're hearing from your sources. and again, you have amazing sources there. how confident are you that they know what the terrain is like this deep? because clearly on day one of this mission with the bluefin-21, it was deeper in a pocket than they had anticipated. >> reporter: look, that is one thing they are confident about. and they are confident that they don't know what it is like down there. and that is why they're talking about a plan b that we may have to have much deeper. this area of the indian ocean,
my understanding from local oceanographers, that is the least explored part of the ocean anywhere in the world. it just simply has not been mapped properly at all. the depths are just really estimates in many, many cases. so this is probably where the plan b comes in. we may have to go much deeper than we originally expected. >> and david gallo, i mean, it is a good thing for them to admit what they don't know. >> sure, i spoke with some colleagues before i came in tonight. and there is little -- just like topographic, but at the bottom of the ocean. >> that is what is so amazing, in this day and age, again it is often said we know more about the surface of the moon than the depths of the ocean. it is not completely mapped out. >> we have a general feeling for where the big lumps and bumps are, but when you get to the
tactical levels, the hills and valleys, there is very little information. >> who has been able to do that? is there a drive to do that? >> yes, the oceanographers and scientists have been told there are -- >> 7% of our ocean -- >> that is it, most of our planet. we're living on an unknown pl planet. >> that is crazy -- 7%. >> the highest, deepest valleys, waterfalls, lakes, rivers, we find more life there than the tropical rain forests, but we're not giving attention to how important this is. >> mary, how amazing is this with multiple countries involved? i assume if australia is called about a possible next phase? >> i would assume they have to do that in conjunction with malaysia, it is malaysia's investigation to control. so i think that australia will make the recommendation and
malaysia will concur, or theoretically, i imagine they would concur. if the first efforts don't pan out then i think they will explore all the efforts of the pings and then fan out a little more. because remember we hear the information about the acoustic tricks, three miles from the pings, i think they will do everything before they exhaust plan b. >> why not have more bluefins in the water? >> to protect -- the plan, to me, you have to have the right technology. they do, bluefin-21, the team they have out there are very talented. and then the right plan, so the plan they have chosen is they said okay, we have the pinger. that is the spot. we'll throw the dart right into the bull's eye or close to it. so no need to go to a broader search with more vehicles. as tom foreman said you need
much more support, more people to plan that. but it is way too soon in the process to think about that yet. >> and that is something that houston said when he first announced that they were going down on the weekend. angus houston, the head of the search committee or the search organization. he basically said, was asked again and again, what do you do if you don't find anything? what is plan b? and he said we're a long way from that yet. he estimates six weeks to a couple of months to search the area that they have already identified, so he is not expecting -- i don't know why tony abbott is putting it into a week. houston was talking about six weeks or several weeks up to a couple of months for this phase. >> positively, it is a long-term. we're in for the long haul. >> we have to take a quick break, we have a very full hour including president obama's response to the showdown with russia. let me know of any questions you have, tough new questions about
the 370 investigation next. also later, a live demonstration of the actual science of underwater sonar mapping. it is fascinating. also, more on steve faucett, the search for his missing plane because everybody was essentially looking in the wrong place. also breaking news on the sunken ferry, just a horrific scene off south korea in the very chilly waters. we'll have the latest on the sinking, and how many people are missing on "ac360." ♪
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as for the area itself we also just learned the search is happening where the second ping was detected, the one detected saturday april 5th, at 9:27 a.m. now the reason the navy tells the searchers the ping is the most promising is because of its quality. the word they used. those details like many others in the search come almost like clockwork. we get them almost every day from australian authorities. and the answers are much harder to come by. the answers about the co-pilot's cell phone. pamela brown worked on that, what did you learn? >> well, anderson this is just another tiny piece of the puzzle. and experts and sources are trying to figure out what this information about the co-pilot's cell phone really means. what we do know is if any of the passengers' phones were on, they should have felt that ping. many forget to turn off their phones, likely it was not just
the co-pilot's phone, but experts say the co-pilot's cell phone should have been off. so the question looms, was it on right before the plane took off, or half an hour after the plane's systems mysteriously shut off. and i want to make it clear here, anderson, sources say there is no indication any calls were placed. and again just because a phone connects with a cell phone doesn't mean a call can go through. and it is really tough to get the answers, and the information to know what all of this means. >> any information gleaned about the cell phones obviously could aid in the investigation. >> right, it could if certain factors become clear like the co-pilot's phone was turned on and then off after the plane disappeared. but the investigators don't seem to be jumping up and down over this information. they have known about the data detection equipment, and they don't tell us much about whether
or not anybody was alive on the plane. so far it is not leading to answers here, in many aspects folks are sitting on their hands waiting for the black box to provide the real clue on what happened on flight 370. everything so far is just a small piece of the overall picture. >> all right, pamela, thank you very much. this is a dumb question, or actually, maybe david gallo, is there any value in retrieving cell phones from the depth, or probably not? >> i have been meaning to check on that. it seems like not, but if there were clues to be had, i don't really know the answer to that. >> if there were pings, it is a pretty small area. >> yes, we were warned that was exactly where it was going to be. it takes six times as long to search the same area that could be searched in the day by the towed pinger locator. and that was why they were
determined to exhaust the tpl to the last possible second, because they knew this was a very slow process. but they do believe they have narrowed it. the word they used was manageable. it is clearly not desirable, but the area they're looking at now is manageable given time, patience and efforts. >> and david gallo, i keep hearing people refer to the air france investigation which you co-led in the underwater search. and i used to use that level thinking oh, it took two years to find. but you clarified that, a lot of it was getting permission from bureaucracies, getting permission to go on site. with actually days searching vehicles underwater, how long? >> it depends on how you count it. we were there a total of about ten weeks, and two months of that, eight weeks we spent in the wrong haystack, there was debris that led us to the wrong aircraft. so we spent two weeks on that.
then it was eight days. >> eight days, i mean, that is incredible. so you were using three vehicles at the time? >> three vehicles. >> so can you extrapolate if they were in the right area and there was one vehicle, we should be looking at six months? >> remember, we're not looking for just an aircraft. you were looking for a debris field which could be hundreds of meters across and it could be something as simple as a plastic cup that tells them this is the right spot. >> do you think there is debris floating on the surface of the water, just the question of they can't find it? >> well, i have to come back to the hms sidney, gone without a trace except one raft that shows up i think years later on christmas island, a thousand miles to the north, maybe more. >> so mary, as an attorney for victims and accidents, what does
that mean for litigation? >> what that means is they will litigate under what is called the montreal treaty. the airline is going to be responsible for their passengers unless the airline can prove it took all reasonable pressures to prevent what happened. of course, it is impossible for them to show that because it could be mechanical. it could be a breach of security, you know, pilot action. so the airline will be responsible for its passengers. and if and when they ever find anything it usually what happens is they do a full and complete settlement or litigation. a few may opt out and say no, we're going to wait and hold back on just potential finding something mechanical wrong. but the airline will be responsible. >> what does this do, richard, to the industry as a whole? does something like that have an impact? >> yes, it goes to the core, the icao organization has set up something that would be an extraordinary meeting to be held next month in may, in montreal,
where they will look at lessons to be learned. the airline forum, they will discuss it at their annual meeting in june. let nobody be in any doubt this is going to change the way planes fly, the way data is handled and the way aircraft is tracked. >> just as really every crash, every horrific incident like this has had an impact on the industry? >> this will be in a much greater league. >> really? >> yes, because quite often you change some minor technical ity on the aircraft. some procedure, some form of management within the cockpit. this will go industry-wide. it will probably go across all forms of metal with different times of aircraft and it will be fundamental. the issue will be how long the nations can agree on a course of action. icao is slow, tedious, and it can be a lot of bureaucracy. >> mary, do you agree it will
have an impact historically? >> well, i think what is probably going to happen is nations will do it one by one. and one of the biggest problems will be the united states. because it is so very difficult to get the faa to act. because whenever they propose new regulations, and they don't even need an act of congress. the faa has the power to propose regulations like this. whenever they do it the lobbying effort on the hill is i mmense, from the air traffic control system they already have made $7 billion in loans to help to get this done and still they're complaining about expense. so i think the faa needs to be the leader to get this done worldwide and they need a lot of pressure. and congress cannot cave. because if they cave it is all over. >> and also passengers are much more well-informed on what is going on in the cockpit and the
mechanicals than before. i certainly feel like i know a lot more than before. and coming up what happens next if the black boxes are found. we'll show you the remotely operated vehicles to retrieve from massive depths. there is remarkable technology to show you. also breaking news, another search going on, active search going on after hundreds were missing after a boat capsizes. imagine being on this boat. authorities apparently told people to stay where they were. not go to the lifeboats. we'll get more on the latest in a live update when we continue. okay, listen up! i'm re-workin' the menu.
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. well, as you know search teams in the indian ocean are using side scan sonar technology to map the ocean floor and look for possible debris. there are a lot of challenges, and as david gallo said, there are amazing challenges at such a depth. cnn's stephanie elam as more off the coast of california, to tell us how it works. so take us through it, stephanie, how does it work? >> reporter: anderson, it is really interesting, it sounds difficult, but the sonars are being used in the search for the missing plane, temll us how it works. >> right, there are a number of varieties. this is a multi-beam sonar. they're using side scan search, the fundamentals are the same. they emit sound, as the sonar bounces off the floor, it emits sound to build an image of what is on the floor.
>> is it easier to do deeper in or higher up? >> actually, the image comes up good when you're deep because you have the nice platform and the sonar image can be really crisp. the challenge is getting the sonar down that deep. that is where the really challenge is. >> let's go inside and take a look at what the data looks like when you basically get an image of the sound. that is pretty much what you're doing here, right? >> right, so we have been building up a map over the course of the day. and you can see we've built up this lawn mower pattern, in realtime we're able to see where we are, construct the plan, in the indian ocean they're doing pre-planned missions because the vehicle doesn't come back for a very long time. so they're using their best estimates to build this grid. >> and the side sonar image looks a little weird, explain
how it works. >> right, this is side scan sonar, what the sensor is doing is put sound out. it generates an image of what is on the sea floor. >> and so anderson, it is interesting because the closer down they get the better that image can be, but the higher up the more they can see what is underneath them. so it can be a tedious process of changing the mission to get a better idea of what is down there. >> i have a question, are they getting realtime images or just data. i thought it was data they had had to look at later. also the fact that there is silt down there could it make it harder to identify? >> well, the first one is his question. >> no, they're not getting realtime images, we're able to do that here on the boat but they put that on the image, the boat is down there a very long time. not only do they have to wait for the vehicle to come back up, but they have to download the image, and it is a very time-consuming process. as for the silt, the silt can
definitely impact the data. if something buries fully, you likely wouldn't see it on the impact. but a crater -- >> so there could be an indication that something happened there even with the few weeks that have gone by, anderson. all right, that is very fascinating, thank you very much. the next challenge is bringing it to the surface, that is no easy task, particularly at these depths. what they will use is a remotely operated vehicle, a rove. right now there are two sitting in a house in maryland ready to go. the company that contracts them is ready to ship them out within four hours if and when they get the call they're needed. it has the technology to retrieve items at the depths we're talking about. take a look. >> reporter: this could be the key to solving the mystery of flight 370. it is a remotely operated vehicle or rov for short.
once wreckage of flight 370 is identified, an rov like this one is likely the next crucial step in finding the plane's black box. it is controlled from the surface using this joy stick. has lights to illuminate the stark black of the ocean deep. cameras transmitting back footage in realtime. >> tms hydraulic. >> reporter: and high frequency sonar to sabbatical the famously difficult visibility in the area of the indian ocean where the plane is believed to be. but most importantly the rov has robotic arms called manipulators. >> the arm has jaws, you open and close the jaws. >> reporter: they are essentially mechanical hands, able to retrieve objects from the ocean floor far deeper than any human can withstand.
>> stand and retract. >> reporter: a second manipulator can be equipped with tools for cutting through metal such as on the fuselage of the plane. >> and ideally, if there is a black box, not a problem at all for an rov to put it in a basket and recover it back to the vessel. >> reporter: experts say top priority for investigators is to retrieve both the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder. the rov can go to depths of around 10,000 feet. but the rov that is brought to the wreckage of flight 370 could have to withstand the pressure of around 15,000 feet of water, underwater pulses were detected at that depth last week. and unlike the bluefin, searchers are currently using, the rov is connected to the boat through a line called the
umbilical with a power source and is able to send back feed immediately. and the hope is with these capabilities, the rov will finally manage to bring some answers to the surface. rosa flores, cnn. amazing stuff. and the race to find passengers in the frigid waters off south korea. as the vessel was sinking, they were told apparently to stay in their seats instead of going to the life boats. also, in the search for steve faucett's plane several years ago, does it hold any lessons for flight 370? [bell rings] this...is jane. her long day on set starts with shoulder pain... ...and a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for... ...all day relief. hmm. [bell ring] "roll sound!" "action!"
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. the search officials are convinced, very convinced in their words according to australian prime minister tony abbott that the sonar pingers picked up in the area are from flight 370. but the bluefin has already come back twice without confirming anything. and in one month, the search in the area has not picked up a single piece of plane debris. so you can understand why some of the families are not convinced it is part of the
debris. and as randi kaye reports, it would not be the first time. >> reporter: steve fossett takes off, heading south in a single engine airplane. he promises to be back for lunch, but that is the last time anyone sees him. >> the best way to characterize this is like looking for a needle in a haystack. >> reporter: within hours, the search is under way. the terrain is rugged, the wilderness between nevada and eastern california is vast. the did that plane have like the equivalent of a black box? >> it has an elt, a locater system that can be picked up by satellites. >> reporter: radar picks up the plane's track along the crest of the sierra nevada mountains, following the trail fossett hiked as a teen. >> before they could really
pursue this evidence they were distracted by another piece of evidence that popped up, which was a visual sight out in the desert. that one was very tempting because whenever somebody says they see the airplane people tend to put a lot of credence in that. >> reporter: that visual sight came from a ranch hand in the area who tells authorities the plane flew over him while he was standing on his porch just about 15 miles from where fossett took off. he says the plane was flying pretty low, just about a thousand feet. the tip changes everything. >> it was very distracting and they never looked back and looked at a previous evidence they had. >> reporter: the search area suddenly shifts dramatically, from the mountains about 60 miles northeast to the desert. the search continues for months. still, no sign of steve fossett or his airplane. that is until a hiker finds some of fossett's personal belongings.
it is now october 2008, more than a year after he disappeared. >> i came across the id card and the other cards. and the money in the dirt, and the pine needles and stuff. i went wow. we put it all together, it is that fossett guy. >> reporter: turns out these items are discovered in the heart of the original search area. the mountains. the search teams quickly change their focus. once again. >> just about the time we were going to call off the search the aircraft from yosemite national park spotted what they thought was wreckage on the ground. >> reporter: it is fossett's plane. right along the original radar track. the very spot in play before authorities shifted their attention to the desert. based on a so-called hot tip from a ranch hand. >> they probably could have found him relatively quickly if they had followed up on the evidence they had very early on in the search. >> reporter: instead of the
plane being located in just days, the search lasted over a year. and cost millions. randi kaye, cnn, new york. interesting, next, breaking news in the search for hundreds of passengers now missing in the icy waters off south korea. also late word from ukraine as president obama sends a public message to vladimir putin. ♪ [ female announcer ] most of the time it's easy to know which option is better. other times, not so much. so it's good to know that mazola corn oil has 4 times more cholesterol blocking plant sterols than olive oil. and a recent study found that it can help lower cholesterol 2 times more. take care of those you love and cook deliciously. mazola makes it better. take care of those you love and cook deliciously. if yand you're talking toevere rheuyour rheumatologistike me, about a biologic... this is humira.
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randi k breaking news tonight in south korea where it is already thursday morning and a desperate search under way now to find more survivors of the sinking passenger ferry. the ship had rolled onto its side by the time the rescue crews from south korea coast guard had already arrived. and rescuers had moved in to pluck the survivors from the water. many of them were on a field trip. it is not how many were unaccounted for. officials say hundreds were rescued. as the ship was sinking, some passengers were ordered by the crew to stay where they were. put your safety vest on and stay put as it is dangerous. kept announcing that about ten times so kids were forced to
stay put. so only some of those who moved survived. >> unbelievable, hours after the distress call this was the only part of the ferry sticking out of the water. paul hancock joins us from jindo, south korea, what is happening now. >> reporter: well, anderson, 289 people are still missing, many are high school students. some of the search and rescue operation is being launched from, we saw just about an hour ago some civilian divers who will be involved in the search. not just navy divers but anybody who can get involved and add expertise to possibly find survivors is doing so. all day, rescue helicopters and boats rushed to the scene as panicked passengers clung to life, some holding on to the capsized ferry, others floating in the water. more than 160 have been rescued. tonight, divers are still
searching for almost 300 people still missing. officials say hundreds were on board the south korean ferry, bound for the southwest coast of korea. most of them, high school students on a field trip. this cell phone video claimed to be taken inside the ferry, shows passengers and life vests, taking cover. raises questions about how the incident was handled. >> don't move, if you move it is more dangerous, don't move. >> reporter: some passengers say they were given conflicting instructions over the p.a. system. >> we were told to stay where you were. so we kept staying, but later on the water level came up, so we were beside ourselves. kids were screaming out of terror, shouting for help. >> reporter: the ferry tilted to one side and sank within two hours of the first distress call. investigators still don't know why it went down. >> people screamed on the ship. it tilted. and stuff came down, people came
sliding down. >> reporter: tonight, parents are left gripping cell phones waiting focr the calls that may never come. tonight, officials circle the names, when it is circled it means they are rescued. for now, loved ones found, and uncontrollable emotion. for others, heartbreak. >> it is just so horrific for these families, are they all waiting in a central place for information? >> reporter: well, anderson, basically they're here. we have mothers and fathers who have spent all night here. they have been sitting by the side of the water looking out. it has been pitch black throughout the night but they were still looking at the horizon on the hope of seeing something. that ship is more than 12 miles out from where we are. they have no chance of seeing anything, but there is nowhere else to go. we want to find out information but we've just been hearing one woman screaming and wailing.
saying why did they announce they should not move from where they were, why did they not allow my ninji to get off the boat? for now, it is turning to anger as they discover more. the announcement, saying stay where you are, try not to jump off the boat and get into the water. >> it is just unbelievable people were told to stay where they were. any information about what possibly could have caused the ferry to sink? >> reporter: we're having nothing official at this point. all we really hear is from eyewitness, one eyewitness said he felt a bump and then the ship started to tilt. and that is when they took the life jackets and started to jump into the water. so it does appear that some eyewitnesss are talking about a point of impact, and falling. we're hearing absolutely nothing at this point. the search and rescue operation is going on behind the scenes. >> it is just so horrific,
nearly 300 people still missing. paula hancock, as we mentioned students were texting. one student wrote to his mother, mom in case you don't get to say this i love you. his mother apparently didn't know this ship was in trouble, and responded why, of course i love you too, my son. one responded, if i did anything wrong, please forgive me, i love you all. we have no way of knowing what happened to the students who actually texted. i want to bring in a maritime captain. captain, what do you think what could have caused this to happen? is human error likely or is it simply too soon to tell? >> yeah, i believe it is human error listening to the reporters. it sounds that initially the ferry left about two hours later than usual due to the heavy fog. so there is a possibility that the captain may have been trying to make up time to make up his schedule and may have taken a
shorter route than prescribed. it sounds like he hit a submerged object that caused a large gap, bringing in a large amount of water. >> when you heard about the passengers told to stay where they were, not to get up and get life boats, does that make sense to you? >> no, that makes no sense to me. the first thing you want to do when you have a marine casualty is the preservation of life. with the large amount of passengers on board that is the main thing you want to do. get the people out of the ship, out of danger into the open spaces so they can get to the life rafts and get to the vessel. one interesting thing i noted about the pictures i looked at it doesn't even look like one of the life rafts were even deployed. they were all still in their cradles, and were not deployed. it goes back to the training of the crew. how were they trained? how often did they have the
training drills? it sound like it was chaos and definitely devastating. >> so obviously, it makes us think what would we do in this situation? what would you recommend we do in this situation, you're a passenger on a ship and obviously you get a life preserver, which i guess they were instructed to do. but then you get to open spaces? >> absolutely, move to an open area where if the vessel capsizes early like this one seems to have done. you can get evacuated early. staying down in the lower parts of the ship when she is rolling over you should not be doing that. you need to get out. once the ship goes over on its side you have no lights. all the doors will be on the wrong side. you need to get out in the light, with the buoyancy of the life jacket, you're not going to be able to get out. everybody needs to egress and get evacuated as quick ly as possible to a life saving station. >> if you do jump in the water is it true that it should get as
far away -- i mean, as far away from the ship as possible that a ship sinking can kind of suck people down in the water? >> well, that does occur, you want to get away from the vessel without a doubt. you want to get as far away as possible. with the cold water you have to think twice about getting in the cold water. the thing to do is get to the life rafts. there were plenty of life rafts that could have been launched and people get into the life rafts. it also sounds like there were plenty of small boats in the area that could have assisted with the evacuation of the passengers. so you know this all gets back to the training and human error. we need to look at the decision-making that is going on with the crew. >> captain, thank you for joining us, i appreciate it. up next, standoff, ukraine heats up. we have the latest on president obama. all stations come over to mission a for a final go.
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well, the standoff in eastern ukraine deepened today. pro-russian forces tightened their grip in the cities they seized. local residents in one city blocked the ukrainian troops. in another town, 30 armed people took a government building. cbs news asked president obama if he believes putin is provoking it. >> not only have russians gone into crimea and annexed it in
illegal fashion, violating the sovereignty and territory of ukraine, but what they have also done is supported at minimum non-state militias in southern and eastern ukraine and we've seen some of the activity that has been taking place there. >> president obama also said that russia may face new sanctions. and that does it for us, make sure you set your dvr so you never miss "ac360," cnn with bill weir starts now. good evening, i'm bill weir, thank you for joining us tonight. just imagine what it must be like to head to the airport to pick up a loved one, but instead of a nice reunion and baggage claim you spend 40 days wondering what happened to them, hoping and praying and raging for answers but none are given. imagine what it must be like to put your child on a ferry ride sh