tv Legal View With Ashleigh Banfield CNN September 12, 2014 9:00am-10:01am PDT
he is on video punching his fiance and fans, women, have no problem wearing his jersey. why all of the love for ray rice? that's coming up. >> he shot and killed three students at his high school and last night, t.j. lane, a teenage killer with zero remorse escapes from prison. olympian oscar pistorius was found negligent but not of murder. how long will the judge lock up the blade runner? i'm ashleigh banfield. welcome to "legal view." last night, in the heart of
ravens' country, we got to see how the ray rice scandal was affecting people in pro sports. the fans. look at that. ray rice jerseys almost everywhere you look. and look who is wearing them. you're about to hear from some of the female fans who say leave ray rice alone. it's between his wife and him. and here's a simple message. on a temporarily altered ray rice jersey "b nice." clearly many raven fans are upset at the nfl. sports guy andy scholls was there. have a look. >> it was a sell-out crowd for
the game last night and the fans were as loan as always. roger goodell under fire. >> here's the running back taking the field for the first time since their teammate ray rice was let go amidst a domestic violence controversy. rice met with nfl commissioner roger goodell back in june admitting that he punched his fiance janay in an elevator. >> what was ambiguous about her laying unconscious on the floor being dragged out by her feet? >> there was nothing ambiguous about that. that was the result that we saw. we did not know what led up to that. >> reporter: the number of
current and former employers calling for goodell to be accountable is growing by the day. >> roger goodell failed to act, plain and simple. there should be consequences. >> and ryan westbrook tweeting, he should be held to that high standard. mere hours before thursday's night kickoff, a prerecorded rihanna opener. instead, devoting time to a discussion about the abuse scandal rocking the nfl, culminating with james brown making a powerful plea. >> according to domestic violence experts, more than three women per day lose their lives at the hands of their partners. this is yet another call to mend and take responsibility for their thoughts, their words, their deeds. as dion says, to get help or
give help. >> reporter: after defeating the steelers, the ravens voiced their support for their ex-teammate. >> people have really grown to love him and they support him, as do we. we acknowledge the mistake he made. >> ray is still a great guy. he made a mistake. you take away those two minutes of his life and you look at a model citizen, a model man. >> reporter: fans also showing royalty to rice by wearing his jersey. >> i stick around ray rice 100% and will rock this jersey every day until he's back on the field. >> this is a situation that is between his wife and himself and i feel that everybody should leave him alone and let them deal with the situation. >> reporter: i have to say, i was shocked to see so many ravens' fans wearing their ray rice jerseys. most were mad at the nfl and
roger goodell than they were at ray rice. >> thank you, andy scholes. you heard that woman, it's an issue between him and her. it's not. it's a crime. that's why the community gets involved in crimes. you can't punch someone in the bar and have it between the two guys. it's a crime. the accusations are flying. in the court of public opinion, a lot of people have convicted rice. and a lot of people have left him off the hook, too. judge alex is here to talk through this and also with me is my sports commentator l.z. let me start with you, l.z., about this new information that has come out to espn about the notion that sources said that rice himself told the commissioner he punched his fiance, that it wasn't ambiguous at all the way the commissioner articulated it. how does this change anything going forward for the
commissioner? >> well, i think there are several different layers to that question that you're asking. number one, does this information change the views of the owners of roger goodell? at the end of the day, he answers to them. and if the owners still had his back, it doesn't matter how the fans feel about roger goodell. as long as the sponsors don't get nervous, they are not going to do anything to roger goodell. at the end of the day, the super bowl is the most watched event in television history and you can expect that to be the same next year. so, number two becomes the players themselves. how do they work to go forward in terms of roger goodell and his authority as a commissioner? how will they challenge him based upon how they mishandled the situation. >> and some of the ratings information have blew the doors off. judge alex, you heard that woman
interviewed on her way to the game saying this is an issue between mr. and mrs. rice. is there any other crime that you know of in your long career in american juris prudence where somebody would say that assault, that aggregated assault, that murder, is an issue between two parties? >> no. and it shouldn't be. nobody should be saying that. this is a crime, as you pointed out rightly, a violent crime. i understand some of what they are trying to say because they point out, she struck him and she shouldn't have struck him. that's true. had this been a man in the elevator with ray rice, even a small man who took a swing at him and somebody knocked him unconscious, nobody would bat an eye. but we expect more than that from relationships. with somebody that you're married to and love, then violent retribution. and when you're a football player who works out and trains and builds himself up, you have so many other options and your wife take as swing at you, as
wrong as it is. >> or your husband take as swing at you? >> either way. >> he could have restrained her, bear hugged her, he could have done so many other things than knock her out. >> there's another famous video of an assault under way which is jay-z who did nothing while his sister-in-law wailed on him. >> exactly. >> lz, during the locker room conversation, a few of the players who played alongside of rice, they say, this was just two minutes of his life and this was a small, tiny snapshot of a moment that's not him. but does anybody in your busy how you can say that about oscar pistorius. when you fire a gun, it's just a split second of your life or when you assault someone or kill someone, it's just a split second of your life. but there's consequences for that split second of your life. >> that's why this is so much larger than ray rice. this is the cultural conversation that needs to be happenings and needs to continue to happen. if you put too much of this
conversation on ray rice and roger goodell, then we lose an opportunity to talk about what is happening to us culturally. at the end of the day, there is 56 domestic violence-related arrests under roger goodell's watch, we did not hear or see any previous outcry over the previous 55. that's the problem. when one in four women suffer domestic violence in this country, that's a problem. we need to be having a larger conversation and not one just about ray rice. >> you're right, lz. a couple of players are either on the field right now or about to step onto the field who are adjudicated or had the accusations appealed against them and one of them has actually pleaded. lz, it's always good to talk to you. your network has done a great job. appreciate it. judge alex, if you could stick around. i have a few other questions for you. >> sure. >> roger goodell has spent his whole life to become the nfl commissioner and right now it's possible he could lose everything because how he's
handled this ray rice controversy. is "i'm sorry" enough for the nfl to keep him? we needed 30 new hires for our call center. i'm spending too much time hiring and not enough time in my kitchen. [ female announcer ] need to hire fast? go to ziprecruiter.com and post your job to over 30 of the web's leading job boards with a single click; then simply select the best candidates from one easy to review list. you put up one post and the next day you have all these candidates. makes my job a lot easier.
you know, we're talking about the nfl's controversy in this fluid situation surrounding the ravens' star running back, ray rice. but first let's talk about roger goodell, the man who first benched ray rice for first two games and then ultimately decided to suspend him indefinitely. now eight years running the nfl, goodell started as an intern.
the ray rice scandal is a few of the storms that he has weathered during his tenure. here is gary tuchman. >> roger, congratulations. >> reporter: and roger goodell became the commissioner of the most popular sport. early on he spoke these relevant words. >> we are in a position where people are watching and you are in a different world right now and you have to be responsible and you are going to be held accountable. >> reporter: and now the question is being asked, has he been responsible? has he been accountable? >> the question becomes, did the nfl drop the ball or was the nfl willfully ignorant about what was on this tape? >> well, we certainly didn't know what was on the tape but we have been very open and honest and i have also, from two weeks ago when i acknowledged, we didn't get this right.
that's my responsibility and i'm accountable for that. >> reporter: goodell has had his hands full during his eight years of commissioner when it comes to discipline. perhaps the most note be, michael vick, involved in dogfighting. he pled guilty and went to prison. >> michael did an egregious thing. he played a significant price for that. >> reporter: he was allowed back into the nfl. and commissioner goodell said he violated the personal conduct policy and the quarterback was suspended for the first four games of the 2010 season. >> you don't have to be convicted of a crime. you're going to be held accountable to that standard. >> reporter: currently, other players accused of abuse and con
vi convicted of abuse, as people watch the elevator video, it's making blood boil. 12 democrats on the judiciary committee have sent a letter to goodell asking for the highest level of transparency surrounding the ray rice incident and 16 female senators say they are shocked and disgusted by the video and want the nfl to have a real zero tolerance policy. there are also calls for goodell's resignation. >> we are insisting that roger goodell must resign and we want an investigator with full authority to do a top to bottom review, sexual assault, dating violence within the community. >> reporter: by any standard, this is a crisis for the commissioner and no one has spoke out against goodell which indicates that they trust him, as of now. >> do you feel like your job is
on the line? >> no. i'm used to criticism and i'm used to that. >> since he took over as commissioner. gary tuchman, cnn, atlanta. >> who could ever forget t.j. lane after his appalling behavior in a courtroom? remember this? how this ohio school shooter, murderer of three students unbuttoned his shirt to reveal the shirt killer on his shirt in court. he got three life sentences while he was smiling but still managed to escape prison last night. how does the murderer escape prison, especially one this young? i got this. [thinking] is it that time? the son picks up the check? [thinking] i'm still working. he's retired. i hope he's saving.
ohio school shooter t.j. lane is now back in custody, believe it or not, after escaping from prison last night. he's now 19 years old and that young man on your screen is serving three life terms, consecutive life terms for the 2012 shooting at chardon high school that killed three classmates. he was captured not far from the prison. he had only been out for about six hours. they searched for that whole six hours. one of the two prisoners said he escaped with is still at large, however. how is this unremorseful killer able to slip out of prison? you remember that this was the same kid who wore a t-shirt on which he had scribbled killer.
he did that at his sentencing. notice how he came in with the button-down and took it off, surprising even his own attorney. joining me to talk about how our country incarcerates juveniles, judge alex, former florida circuit judge. before i get to the juvenile aspect, how on earth does a kid with three life sentences or an adult get to the point where he's able to scale a wall? >> it doesn't gender a lot of faith into our justice system, does it? >> no, not at all. >> it's not a maximum security facility. and the department of corrections typically has a lot of leeway in determining where they are going to house inmates. what i'm not really sure about is why would you put somebody who is serving three consecutive life sentences, which is the highest level you're ever going to get, short of the death penalty. >> short of death row. >> right. >> into anything other than a
maximum security facility. >> what has changed here, if you look at the institution where he was being housed and now presumably still is being housed now that he's been caught, according to the cleveland plain dealer, there are five levels of security. minimum, medium, close, which apparently he was in, maximum, and administrative maximum. so they've got a capacity to put maximum security prisons. there are only four people who qualify and he, according to the dealer, was not one of them. >> i don't know how he would not qualify for maximum security. based on the crime you're committing and the sentence you're facing, you have no incentive but try to escape because you're never going to get out of parole. administrative maximum is typically for people who have violat the rules inside. >> pun neshmeishment for the gu inside already?
>> typically. maximum security would seem like the appropriate destination for him, not close. >> if you saw this in your courtroom, as you were about to hand down sentencing, would that make a difference watching a smiling kid who is now 17 years old first charged as a juvenile. he's now an adult. >> yeah. >> you see killer on a t-shirt and a smiling kid who's basically does that change what you say and how you hand out sentencing? >> absolutely. that may be why he got three consecutive instead of three concurrent. >> really? >> yes. a judge is looking at him saying this guy has been convicting of killing those three students and he shows not only zero remorse but mocks the system? why would we want to give him an ability to get out and kill more people. and you see this all the time.
it doesn't don on them that the judge hasn't handed down sentencing. >> they will charge him with escape, he'll be convicted of escape and it will be additional years on to three life sentences. >> perhaps now they will move him into level four. >> perhaps. >> always good to see you. >> i won't hold my breath. >> thank you for coming. appreciate that. if you go by the numbers, it looks like isis is much stronger than he first thought but those terrorists still have nowhere near as many troops as iraq does, as the kurds do. so why is it that they are such a force to be reckoned with? and why is it so hard to beat what effectively is a pretty small army? those questions in a moment. and other car insurance companies? yes. but you're progressive and they're them. -yes. -but they're here.
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the job is tough, stakes are huge and the odds are longer than you'd like, you call in a marine and we now know that president obama has called on this marine, retired general john allen, former top u.s. commander in afghanistan, to lead the new strategy to take out isis. don't call it a war. secretary of state john kerry tells cnn it a counterterrorism operation. by any name, it is a complicated
fight against a foe that may have three times the manpower the outside world first thought it had. my colleague, jim sciutto, has that. >> reporter: the fight against isis is the latest chapter in a long american war against islamic extremists. but it brings its own particular challenges, each of them problems that have kept the president from launching a broad campaign until now. with military action inside syria, the u.s. is plunging itself into a brutal and confusing civil war. isis is the enemy today but so is isis' chief rival, bashar al assad. america's allies on the ground, both in syria, the moderate syrian rebels and in iraq, the iraqi army, are unproven fighting forces. neither has made any significant headway against isis on its own. >> the moderate rebels in the
past haven't been proven to be a cohesive fighting unit. in many cases, they are not very moderate and sometimes they make league with groups like al nusra in which we are dedicated to fighting against. >> reporter: and into this confusing war, the president is sending an additional 475 u.s. military advisers to iraq, raising the total number of u.s. forces there to 1700. they won't be in combat but they will face risks. in the air and on the ground. and the president's plans to limit that risk by ruling out a combat rule greatly limits the effectiveness of air strikes. >> an air campaign can be highly effective if you have targeters on the ground embedded with the combat units. >> on the home front, military action that many believe will last years will cost billions of dollars, disrupting if not destroying the president's attempt to shrink the pentagon
budget. >> it will be up to congress to make sure that the u.s. military is not encumbered by lack of funds, lack of resources. >> at stake, u.s. security at home and abroad. u.s. officials now estimate isis has anywhere from 20,000 to 31,500 fighters, up from an earlier estimate from 10,000. among them, about a dozen americans. >> come on! >> reporter: the fear that those western fighters are being encouraged to carry out terror attacks when they return home. u.s. surveillance aircraft are now flying over syria. this, to gather intelligence for the air strikes that the president has ordered against isis. jim sciutto, cnn, washington. >> thank you, jim. want to bring in now cnn's military analyst and retired air force colonel rick fanterno. what we thought the estimates
were, that sounds terrifying daunting and then if you do a comparative study, if the high end is correct, 31,000 fighters would not fill a stadium. i'm not sure i understand how this tiny army is doing such a big job. >> how they were able to threaten baghdad? it's mazing. >> with all of those other troops to go through. >> it's just amazing. it's because these guys are ruthless, they are fanatics and they are not afraid to die and they are using tactics that ordinary, conventional forces will not use. suicide bombings. >> i get all that. we had kamikaze fighters as well that were not afraid because they had a massive power to
face. these guys might have stolen american gear. they might have 31,000 guys. half of the texas stadium. i still don't understand how they have been able to effectuate such terror. >> because they haven't come up against the real fighting force yet. the peshmerga were armed and equipped and with the american air strike they've been able to turn them back. they are not ten feet tall and we need to make sure that we realize these guys can be defeated and will be defeated. they haven't met the fighting force that's going to do it yet. >> i can't believe in our meeting we were going, really, half a texas stadium and let me ask you another question that's critical right now. john kerry is overseas. he's hop scotching through the middle east and arab states trying to form this coalition that is so critical. it's got to be christians and muslims alike, et cetera, right? maybe not israel but we certainly have this now
ten-state arab coalition that's signed up with actions as appropriate which is really a couched piece of i'm not sure we can do much but we'll sign on. and then there's turkey. it's a big, big deal but they are not saying that they are going to allow air bases or bombing. they have hostages being held right now. >> right. the turks are a member of nato. they have beautiful facilities that are excellent for us to use. you can see how close on the map it is to where we'd be flying from. >> by the way, we've been using them from iraq before. >> the turks are really worried about allows us to use them against syria because they have those hostages there. it would be useful for us. the turks said we could use it for humanitarian assistance. >> when you have a couple dozen
hos stea hostages held in that mosul attack, it's terrifying. thank you. have a great weekend. the prosecutors didn't get the verdict that they necessarily wanted against oscar pistorius but he did not get away scot-free. he's still on the hook for killing his girlfriend but -- and it's a big but -- how many years might he face in prison? your 16-year-old daughter studied day and night for her driver's test. secretly inside, you hoped she wouldn't pass. the thought of your baby girl driving around all by herself was... you just weren't ready. but she did pass. 'cause she's your baby girl. and now you're proud. a bundle of nerves proud. but proud. get a discount when you add
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olympic track star oscar pistorius has been kconvicted o culpable homicide, killing someone without intending or planning to do so. the judge granted him bail but his sentencing is going to start on october 13th. it's not a one-day process. it could take a while before pistorius learns his fate. to learn more, robin kernow is in the courtroom. take me towards the finish line. tell me how much time he might or may not spend behind bars. >> reporter: you know, it's a question i've been asked a lot today and i've asked the legal experts and essentially there
isn't an answer. what we're looking at is a judge going case-by-case totally at her discretion. there's no minimum or maximum for culpable homicide. she could give him suspended sentence, community service. a case which was much worse when a taxi driver killed negligently over train tracks. he got culpable homicide and served eight years in prison. so you can see, it is certainly not the kinds of prison time and numbers that you're talking about over the murder charge, which were around 15 to 25 years. definitely much less than that. or not at all, even. >> or nothing at all. this is something americans might find strange. if prosecutors don't like what they hear, they can appeal? >> reporter: absolutely. and there was a hint from that today. the national prosecuting attorney saying that they are going to wake for the sentencing and then make a decision on whether they are going to
appeal. there has been some legal critics saying perhaps they felt the judge had read some of the minutia of the law wrong. they can and are legally required to, if they want to, challenge the judgment and they can do it on matters of law, not on matters of fact. >> all right. robyn curnow, thank you. i'm sorry, my friend, you're not going on vacation yet. joining me is joey jackson and dan danny cevallos. this trial has gone on and on. what was so fascinating about this is what culpable homicide is. am i right if i describe it this way. you made a big mistake. >> galatically stupid. >> you made a big mistake but
it's the kind of mistake that a reasonable man wouldn't. is that what's critical here? the reasonable man wouldn't do what you did. >> absolutely. and it's somewhat similar to what we have here, criminal negligence is what we call civil negligence but it's a high, high degree of negligence, almost reckless. you did someone that was objectively unreasonable and probably knew what you were doing was a little risky. the judge's reasoning appears that she didn't find any intent. remember, we know we he intended to fire the gun. what did he want to cause by firing that gun? and this really is a mistake of fact type case. was his mistake reasonable based on all of the surrounding circumstances? the only thing i found a little problematic, maybe for appeal purposes, is that she stated on the record that the judge didn't find him that credible. i thought it was very interesting to say, here i found the defendant to be a not credible person yet, yet i am
buying in at least partly to his theory of defense. >> you know, what's different -- there's a lot of differences in their system and the american system but one of the sentencing issues that i've come to learn -- and robyn was alluding to it when she said, i can't tell you the answer to that. every sent epsing takes into account the person and this guy is a hero. >> exactly. >> in that country. >> and i think that may have factored into her analysis of her decision. and you know what is troubling to me and it's been troubling since law school, if i can admit this. factually, you can make any determination -- there's a reasonable inference on the facts to draw, to justify your conclusion. here's what i mean. certainly in a case like this if you're a judge and interpreted it in a different way, you could have said it was intentional. if you're so concerned for the person sleeping right next to you doesn't check that bed?
what reasonable person would run right to a bathroom after drawing your firearm and pump four shots without doing anything? so her interpretation in and of itself finding negligence, right, she could find it and justify her decision very well, actually, but it always troubled me that based upon certain facts you could draw certain conclusions and you could justify anything. now, with regard to the sentence that she imposes, will his celebrity influence the sentence that is actually done and she has such broad discretion, from zero to 15 years here. she could say on the one hand -- >> there's apparently no maximum. well, if there's no maximum -- >> based upon the guidelines as we know them. >> as we know them. it's cultural. traditional. >> common law. >> very strange. i love the fact that they do this according to tradition and less according to actual statute but quickly, danny, she has a brutal record. she is tough. in that courtroom, she has
excuriated defendants in her courtroom. do we think that will translate to this case if not for special treatment? >> sentencing is very different. when you talk about special treatment, l i will concede tha defendants get special treatment. what kind of person are you as a defendant? do you have a prior record? the fact that oscar pistorius is a celebrity will not factor in sentencing but what will factor in is the fact that he's unlikely to flee, that factored into his bail. no two defendants are a like, very much like snowflakes. >> are you busy in october? >> we'll be back here. >> sentencing is set for october. danny and joey, thank you. great to talk to you both. if you are out and about, not just today but any day,
smile. because there's a really good chance that you're on camera somewhere. ray rice might still be in the nfl right now were it not for the surveillance camera. he is not the only person to get busted like this. so is it a good thing that there's someone always watching you? narrator: these are the skater kid: whoa narrator: that got torture tested by teenagers and cried out for help. from the surprised designers.
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cops, criminals, cheating spouses and trouble making teenagers, they just can't get away with stuff like they used to. in this age of surveillance video and red light cams, iphones and go pros, there's a pretty good darn chance that anything you do has a chance of showing up on youtube. so when all of the cameras that are rolling, why do people just keep on misbehaving? cnn's sara sidner has the caught on camera culture that now we are living in. >> this month, surveillance video released of ray rice knocking out his wife in an elevator. last month, it was video released of a man kicking and choking a puppy on an elevator. and in may, it was beyonce's sister solange attacking jay-z in another elevator. there are more cameras watching
and recording our activity than ever before. whether they are hovering on street corners or in hotel elevators, we know this. so why are people who are in high places with a lot to lose with surveillance cameras? >> it gives them what they feel is the privacy to be able to let out some of the emotions that were already there. >> reporter: elevators may feel private but that's not what the law says. >> we usually only worry about when the government does something illegal, when they tape illegally. but when you go to visit somewhere, you have a right to expect that it's going to be private. we all know that elevators are being watched. >> reporter: there hasn't been legal action in all of the cases but each have faced public backlash. rice has pleaded not guilty to an assault charge but was fired
by the ravens. and legal experts warn, even for private citizens, the consequences of a caught on camera moment can last a lifetime the moment it hits the internet. >> you know, there's that phrase, permanent record. well, that's more true now than ever. there's a push back. some people are saying, if i do stupid things when i'm done, can't i be forgiven when i'm older? so far, the public is not very forgiving. >> reporter: and that may include future employers so even if you're not breaking the law, you could end up paying for it for the rest of your life. cnn, sara sidner. >> so the palin family is probably happy that there's no video of a party that they were at on saturday night in anchorage, alaska, because a big old fight broke out and, guess what, there's a police report. when we come back.
sarah, sarah, sarah, sarah, palin. she's back in the news, and her family is, too. we got our hands on a police report about a big fistfight. the fight was at a party last weekend and in an attendance at the party was the palin family. it just happened to be the same day as todd palin's 50th birthday as well. i want to bring in cnn
correspondent suzanne malveaux. suzanne, whenever sarah palin's name is in the news, there are a ton of rumors and then there are facts. >> i want to be clear about what we know and don't know. we're used to seeing the palin family on the reality show, featuring them kayaking, mountain climbing, target shooting. if you believe the reports here, it could be a lot more interesting on this reality show because we're tracking down the reports from several bloggers, media bloggers and those who are in the area. they were reporting that the palins were allegedly involved in this brawl that took place at the joint birthday party last saturday. according to the reports who sight eyewitnesss there, they say that sarah palin, the former governor alaska along with her husband and children pulled up in a hummer together. it was todd's 50th birthday. the family was celebrating.
track see's his sister's ex-boyfriend as they get into an argument, a lot of screaming. the other sister starting wrestling and swinging and sarah palin allegedly yells, don't you know who i am? they do offer this explanation. it's rather vague. "on saturday, accept 6th, 2014, just before midnight, anchorage police responded to a physical altercation taking place between multiple subjects outside of a residence. at the time of the incident, no one wanted to press charges and no arrests were made. alcohol was believed to have been a factor in the incident and some of the palin family members were attendance." we have reached out to others that were in attendance of that party and ashley mentions the day after this altercation that
was just to wish her husband a happy birthday. >> let us know if the police get back with us with anything more on that. i want to close with some news that we just learned. toronto's mayor, who has battled substance abuse and has battled a lot of video reports about his use of crack cocaine, he has withdrawn from the october 27th mayoral race in toronto after being diagnosed with abdominal -- with an abdominal tumor, this according to a city official who spoke with reuters news service. rob ford will not be running for re-election. apparently suffering with an abdominal tumor. "wolf" begins right now. i'm in for wolf blitzer today. i'm brianna keilar. president obama has chosen