tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN September 22, 2014 5:00pm-7:01pm PDT
three days since the launch. apple previously announced it sold 4 million phones on the first day available to preorder. this number is significant because it doesn't include china, the largest smartphone market in the world. regulators there haven't even approved the new phones. anderson starts now. good evening, thanks for joining us. a lot happening. air strikes against isis targets in syria could begin at any time. investigators say the white house fence jumper had 800 rounds of ammo in his car, a pair of hatchets and a run-in with the law. and hannah graham, the man seen with her the night she vanished. police have a lot more to ask him about that. new questions for ray rice's former boss at the baltimore ravens. the nfl pays no taxes, no taxes by law. the question is how did that happen? the back story is pretty surprising.
we're keeping them honest tonight. we begin with breaking news. new details about the harm that this man might have been capable of. for starters, omar gonzalez did more than jump the fence at the white house. he made it through the front door of the white house. he was armed and had a troubling recent past that authorities say suggested he may have intended to harm the president. a whole lot of questions. more from jim acosta. >> reporter: investigators say they found 800 round of ammunition inside the car of alleged white house intruder 42-year-old omar gonzalez friday night. in less than 20 seconds he jumped the fence that runs along pennsylvania avenue and raced inside the north portico entrance to the white house. he was armed with a small knife. relatives say he's an iraq war veteran with post-traumatic stress disorder. in court prosecutors say gonzalez has had run-ins with law enforcement before. in july arrested in virginia with a sniper rifle and a map circling the white house. in august he was stopped walking
around the white house with a hatchet. he entered the white house roughly five minutes after the president and the first family left for camp david. >> government will work together. >> reporter: in a meeting with colon powell, the president said he still has confidence in the people protecting him. >> i appreciate it, guys. >> the secret service does a great job. >> reporter: still, in light of the critical security lapse, the president received frequent updates on the status of the investigation over the weekend. >> his family lives in the white house. he's obviously concerned by the incident that occurred on friday evening. >> reporter: some key questions at the heart of the internal secret service review, where were the trained security dogs in the white house k-9 unit? they weren't deployed. and why was that north portico door unlocked? a policy that changed immediately. >> secret service has changed the procedures for insuring that the entrance to the white house
is secure. >> reporter: with so many visitors to this tourist hot spot, a law enforcement source tells cnn the secret service is considering random bag checks of pedestrians around the white house. with isis threatening to raise its flag over the white house in this recent image that's under investigation of somebody holding a cell phone showing an isis flag on pennsylvania avenue, members of congress want answers. >> it's just a matter of the secret service upping their game to make sure that they can maintain that every detail matters. >> reporte >> jim, you mentioned the security dogs, the unlocked doors. what about security snipers? do we know if at any time they had him in their sights. >> a cam that's running that shows this man climbing up the white house steps, you do see a secret service agent with his gun drawn pointing at him. they did also have snipers on the roof at that time according
to our crew on the scene here friday night. i talked to a law enforcement official about this as to why nobody took a shot at this intruder, they simply don't just shoot every person that jumps over the white house fence. it does happen with some frequency, and they don't want to shoot every person that comes over, for obvious reasons. the person might be disturbed. might not be somebody who is posing a danger to the president. as for the k-9 dogs, i talked to one law enforcement official who said it's just, quote, inexcusable, that those dogs weren't deployed. that's a key security lapse they're looking at. something that's common that we all do, people who live in big cities, we lock our front door. that's something they were not doing friday night. because people come and go out of that north portico door behind me all the time, it was sort of something that they did on a regular basis. they left it unlocked so people could come and go. tonight that door is locked, anderson. it's going to be locked from now on. >> congressional candidate knows
what it's liked in that fence. he used to be secret service agent. his brother still is. the ammunition in the intruder's car, the hatchets that he had previously been caught outside the white house with a hatchet. previously had a machete in the car as well. and previously he'd been caught with a shotgun and a map with the white house circled and some masonic temple circled. the fact that this guy had been arrested in the past, charged with possession of a shotgun, sniper rifle, how bad of a security lapse is this? >> well, anderson, unfortunately, there's no putting lipstick on this one. this is a really catastrophic security lapse. and i want to be clear on this. it wasn't just one or two seemed security measures that failed, uniformed officers, the dogs that you mentioned, but there are a lot of unseen mechanisms that failed as well. that's why so many active and retired agents that i've spoken to are so disturbed about how
this happened. >> can you walk us through what should have happened that didn't happen? i know there are unseen measures and you don't want to discuss those and that's fair enough, but what should have happened that we know of? >> well, the dog should have been deployed. we have belgian malinois. we don't use german shepherds. the dogs are specifically trained to knock those targets down. anderson, if you've ever seen some of these training videos of malinois or the police attack where the dogs hit the man in the chest, it's like getting hit by a man on a motorcycle. it's almost impossible to stay up. why the dog wasn't deployed i think is the question that i hope an exhaustive analysis will get to the bottom of that. but that to me is puzzling. as a handler and the handler ultimately has to deploy the dog. obviously the dog doesn't walk the grounds by himself. but why the handler chose in this case not to has just about
everybody puzzled. >> what's terrifying about this is had this guy had a suicide vest on with exploezive, he could have gone in the white house and blown up the portico. >> exactly. you just said it. this is frightening because you don't know -- he was a rather big individual. suicide vest could have done some significant damage. and anderson, he could have gotten in there with even that knife and taken a hostage. you know, we're thinking worst case scenario, but even lesser degrees of threat are a serious problem. if you're in there with a blade to someone's throat, whoever it may be, i mean, you've got a very, very serious problem on your hands. >> i think some people would be surprised that he wasn't shot. i guess it's -- it is up to the secret service both uniformed and nonuniformed and sniper to make a judgment call about whether that person is wearing some sort of explosive device or a backpack explosive device?
>> i'm glad you brought that up because this is an important point and i got this question a lot today. you notice there's a guy to the door to the left in the video you're playing now that has his gun drawn. they're subject to the same escalation and use of force guidelines that every other federal agent and law enforcement officer in the country are. they don't have any special powers. they cannot shoot unless there's an imminent threat to themselves or others. that didn't seem to be the case. i know it sounds kind of crazy to some listening, there was nothing in his hands, he wasn't vocalizing a threat. there wasn't anything on prints of his garments of any explosive vest or any weapon underneath his clothing. and they're trained to look for that stuff. you're right. you can't shoot a trespasser. you can't. >> it's amazing, a lot of internal reviews going on. appreciate you being with us.
as if things weren't already more than a little tense, we also got new information that makes the white house breach even more frightening. word that some of those hundred or so americans that went to syria to fight have now come home. although none is believed to have trained with isis that's known, the terror group last night called on any sympathetic american to carry out lone wolf attacks in this country including on civilians. jim sciutto has been monitoring developments. so a hundred or so americans. they may not necessarily be linked to isis itself but there are plenty of other groups and bad actors inside syria that they could be connected to. >> you have al nusra, as well as other groups on the range of extremist to moderate because this 100 figure not only does it include fighters who have gone to syria but american fighters who have tried to go there, so let's be clear on that. but the fact that they have come home is worrisome. and this gets at the very core
of the fear of u.s. officials, and that is what happens when these many hundreds of foreign fighters including both americans and europeans, when they come home, do they attempt to carry out violence here? and this shows you that there is a path back. remember, not just the americans they're concerned about. they're also concerned about europeans because they have visa-free travel to the u.s. they can get back here on their passports as well. >> how confident are officials that they know who these people are, where they are? >> cnn spoke to jay johnson today, the secretary of homeland security. wolf blitzer spoke to him. he described it as saying he has confidence that they know who these fighters are. and that confidence means that they have, for some of them, probably a full list of identification, details, names, serial numbers, et cetera. they may have contacts for them, i.d.s, et cetera. doesn't mean they know exactly who everyone is and where they are but they have good
confidence that they know who they are and they can track them. that's not a foolproof process. there are a lot of guys to track. and they move around a lot. this is a free country. big job for intelligence to keep tabs on them. >> isis is now being very explicit in calling for lone wolf style attacks against the united states and others. >> this latest call of many disturbing calls and videos from isis is particularly so because it calls on isis supporters to really carry out violence in any way they can imagine. it says make americans and europeans and french and others who are taking part in particular in the military campaign against isis, make them so that they don't feel safe in their homes. it says take any opportunity. proceed up vehicles on roads. carry out beheadings, attack people in their homes, take their children, really saying do whatever you can. don't wait for orders from home base. don't wait for a plan. carry out violence in any way you can. we got a sample of that with this plot that was foiled in
australia last week. these weren't veterans of fighting in syria with isis. these are just supporters there who have apparently devolved a plot to carry out beheadings in the streets in australia. this the kind of thing they're worried about in many ways just as they are concerned about attacks against fighters. >> theses are people not on anybody's radar. you look at nidal hasan, the ft. hood shooter was ideologically motivated, had watched videos and tried to reach out to anwar al awlaki. >> or the boston bombers as well, one who did travel to areas in the middle east, but not his brother and they were inspired, they read "inspire" magazine and got instructions on how to build a build. >> coming up next, more breaking news in the search for hannah graham and the growing focus on a man she was seen with the
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crime and punishment tonight. the search goes on for missing college student hannah graham. it now includes a manhunt of sorts as well. police put out a wanted poster with this man's face on it. jesse matthew who at the moment is only wanted for reckless driver but is clearly of greater interest to authority. they believe he's the man on this surveillance cam video which graham -- the last person seen with her the night the university of virginia sophomore vanished more than a week ago. now yesterday her father pleaded for help.
>> did you see hannah? did anybody see hannah? did you see hannah? who saw hannah? somebody did. please, please, please, if you have anything however insignificant you think it may be, call the police tip line with anything that just might help us to bring hannah home. >> hannah graham's dad. a horrible place for a father to be. joining me with the latest, cnn's jean casarez. what do you know about jesse matthew and any connection he may have to the disappearance? >> here's what i've learned. he grew up in this area, went to high school in this area, has a lot of friends in this area. he's a patient technician at the hospital which is affiliated with the university of virginia. why they're interested in him, they believe he was the last person that was with hannah. why? because they haven't heard anything else. anderson, i'm right here. this is the outdoor pedestrian mall where hannah was a week ago friday night. right at this intersection is
where she and jesse allegedly walked together -- and if you look down that pedestrian walkway, that's the restaurant that they went into. so you can see when the police chief says there were so many people here -- look at all the people at this restaurant that's so close. that's why he's asking anybody to come forward that saw them because this is a place that's just filled with people, you can imagine, on a friday night. >> i talked to the chief. we'll play that in our 9:00 hour on 360. he said they've got as many as a thousand tips which is certainly a good sign. i know you spoke with some family and friends of this person of interest. what did they have to say? >> well, they say that jesse's lawyer has told them that they cannot comment, but i spoke with someone today at the house and i said, you know, we want to hear from you because a young man's life is at stake here also. and they agreed with me. you can see the emotion within his family. the friends that i've talked to, they say that he's a really nice
guy. they don't want to come on camera and talk, but they say that he's a quiet person, that he's a person that helps people, doesn't hurt people, and they're really shocked. >> clearly police are on the lookout for him. jean, appreciate the update. quick program note, we'll speak to police chief longo in our second hour. he's quite passionate about this case. we'll get the latest on this case and where it now stands. two states to the north, authorities in northeast pennsylvania have narrowed the search area for alleged cop killer eric frein. they say he's still out in the woods, territory that he knows well and he's armed with a scope hunting rifle. hundreds have joined the search for him. hunters have been told to stay away. local schools today were canceled. alexandra field is on the scene. she joins us now. what's the latest? >> reporter: eric frein has evaded capture for the last ten days. but in the last hours we've seen the search efforts intensify.
there are still more officers coming from the neighboring states of new jersey and new york. you've got a number of different agencies all working together. their search focused in the wooded area behind me. they've been targeting just a few square miles near frein's family home, but they say they've been able to now shrink that search area. they say that they are confident that frein is close by and they're optimistic that they're going to capture him. this is based on the fact that they've received several credible tips, they say, in the last 24 hours about reported sightings of frein. they do believe he's still armed and dangerous. that's what they really need to take into account in this effort. they've had medevac choppers above and ambulances on the ground. they want to be sure when officers go in, that they're safe, protected, that they don't have the kind of incident that prompted this man hunt. >> so dangerous for them to be out in the woods where this guy could be laying in wait for them. over the weekend police did find items that they believe are related to frein, right?
>> that's right. that's why they've been able to sort of tell the public that they're so confident he's in this area. an ak-47 and ammunition. they believe both of those items were left following the shooting at the state police barracks ten days ago. that's indicated to them that they are very much on his trail. they're telling people in this area that they really need to remain vigilant. there was a shelter in place order in effect while these searches have been under way. right now that order is lifted, but people are being kept out of their homes when it's necessary to block roads. everyone's being told if you can be inside your house, stay inside your house. you do not want to wander outside in the dark out into the woods tonight. >> the fact that 400 law officers and countless civilians have yet to locate eric frein should not surprise anyone who has spent time outdoors. he knows what kind of patience a manhunt like this requires and he knows from experience. gary tuchman on the life and
work of a tracker. >> reporter: there are hundreds of thousands of acres in the wilderness of the nantahala national forest in north carolina, and places like this is where fugitives gravitate. patrick patton knows that firsthand. >> to be a master tracker, you have to really enjoy the woods and it has to be in your blood. >> reporter: patton was the lead tracker in the ultimately successful five-year search for eric rudolph, the so-called atlanta olympic park bomber. he was found right in this area. patton returns here with us to give us our own tracking lesson. footprints have been left for us. our pretend fugitive has a size 11 to 12 shoe. >> this is measured from the toe of one shoe to the heel of the other. this is approximately 20 1/2 inches. >> reporter: you follow footprints as long as you can. >> see how fresh it looks? and here's your disturbance right in here. >> reporter: a tracker can even
tell when the bad guy is getting weary and may be easier to catch. >> as you can see here, the fugitive looks like they may be getting tired. they're starting to drag their foot. >> reporter: figuring out the stride keeps you going in the right direction even when the prints start to fade. that's our right. where is our left going to be. 18 to 21 inches. where do you think it is out there? >> here. >> you like it right here? >> yep. >> next right? >> yep. >> next left here. >> you're finding them. >> reporter: when prints disappear there are many other things to look for, disrupted vegetation, rocks, litter, all sell telling clues that are known as signs. the signs that are found are rather dramatic. instead they're pieces of a puzzle. this is truly a science. >> see that leaf right here? how it's turned up? >> yeah. >> is that the normal of everything else around here? >> no, it's different. >> that's probably our fugitive
right there. >> reporter: even branches could give a fugitive away. >> it is not where it's supposed to be. that's where it's supposed to be. it hangs like that. but when i walk through it or the fugitive walks through it, it sticks back like that. >> reporter: on the other side of the tree. >> on the other side of the tree, which is great because that confirms everything else you know. >> reporter: ultimately that trail takes us down to the nantahala river. patton tests me. >> is that a right or a left, gary? >> reporter: left. and it makes sense because why would he walk in the water if he doesn't have to, right? our trail goes cold, which is what trackers deal with all the time. but even on a cold trail, trackers can never be too vigilant when searching for dangerous criminals. >> here we are, gary. it locks like we've lost our fugitive. so we use a hand signal like this in tactical situations because we don't want to make noise. stealth is our ally.
>> reporter: it can be a long, tedious process, something a tracker must be willing to deal with. >> patience is truly a virtue for a tracker. >> reporter: gary tuchman, cnn, in the nantahala national forest, north carolina. >> all the things he can see. a quick reminder, you can see more on that story and many others at cnn.com. up next, ray rice's old boss goes on camera, comes under fire as well. what do you think about the league that mishandles the ray rice situation pays absolutely no taxes. are you aware of that? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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today the owner of the baltimore ravens denied allegations that there was purpose misdirection in the way they handled the ray rice scandal. he punched his then-fiancee in an elevator knocking her out. an article came out saying after that incident they xained for leniency for rice in the judicial system and in the nfl. here's what the owner said about
that article today. >> almost everything in there is anonymous but it's clear from the subject matter that there's -- it's ray's attorney, it's ray's agent and it's ray's friends. and, you know, they are building a case for reinstatement. and the best way to build a case for reinstatement is to make everybody else look like they're lying. so their accusations didn't jive with what we knew was fact. >> the nfl is struggling with scandal after scandal raring domestic violence. but now we want to focus on the way the league does business. and it is a business. how is it that the national football league is considered a nonprofit organization? its front office gets a pretty big gift from taxpayers. the teams pay taxes, the league itself does not. the history of how that happened is fascinating and maybe
infuriating depending on how you look at it. drew griffin is keeping them honest. >> reporter: it began with a deal, not on the field but in washington. 1966. the newly merged nfl/afl needed antitrust law protection and tax-exempt status. and two powerful louisiana politicians wanted a team for new orleans. nfl's longtime powerful commissioner pete rozelle went to work. on november 8th, stuck into a bill concerning investment credit and accelerated depreciation, were these few lines about football leagues, tax exempt status and exclusion from antitrust laws. >> pete rozelle was a forward looking guy. i can't imagine what that two lines there -- maybe it's three is worth today. >> reporter: louisiana got its team, the new orleans saints. and year after year nfl teams get to write off all the dues they pay to the nfl to run the
business. each team paying around $10 million, $325 million last year alone as a write-off. andy delany, a vermont lawyer, has researched and written about that deal and says nonprofit tax status for the nfl is hard to justify. >> i don't think anything they're doing is illegal, but it's certainly not within the spirit of the traditional nonprofit. nonprofits don't have directors with salaries north of 40 million. it's big business. and my theory really is that they should call it that. >> reporter: but try as you might for reform for an end of tax breaks for anything regarding the nfl, legislation will most likely get benched. that's because when it comes to fending off legislation keeping lawmakers out of its business, the nfl has drafted its own defensive frontline. a strong team of powerful
washington lobbyists, many of whom conveniently located just blocks from the white house in one of the most powerful lobbying firms in this city. >> they're spending a million dollars a year over the last seven or eight years. so they're doing a considerable amount of lobbying investing in kind of the washington game through lobbying and campaign contributions as well. >> reporter: the heart of the nfl's lobbying team is centered right here. 1201 pennsylvania avenue is the home of the nfl's washington office and the law firm covington and burling. between the two, there are a half dozen nfl lobbyists here. the law firm employs the former nfl commissioner, paul tagliabue. and the nfl just hired a former deputy assistant to president obama who will now head the nfl's d.c. operations. sheila krumholtz says the nfl's 20 or so lobbyists are all pro. >> almost all of which are former government employees,
former hill staffers, so they have good access by buying the help of people who know how to navigate congress. >> reporter: why so many lobbyists for the national football league? >> i have no idea. i think that's a question that aught to go to them. >> reporter: senator tom coburn who has railed against the tax-free status of the nfl, the pga, the national hockey league and other sports leagues, has introduced a bill to get rid of the tax breaks. his pro sports act, he says, would save taxpayers millions. >> 10 million or so. >> probably $110 million over the next ten years. but the point is why should they have that? every dollar that's not paid in taxes by that league office is a dollar that everybody in your state's actually having to make up for. so it's stealing from the poor and giving to the rich. it's reverse robin hood is what it is. >> another nfl outrage. >> reporter: the nfl swamped with multiple scandals these days could only offer us a written statement on its
nonprofit status, no interview, but the league defends paying no taxes at the front office because every dollar of income that is earned in the national football league, the league writes, from game tickets, television rights fees, jersey sales and national sponsorships is subject to tax. none of this income is shielded. adding there is one small part of the nfl unrelated to all this business activity that is tax exempt, the nfl league office. and that office, says the nfl, is a trade association. it administrates and organizes the games, hires referees, sets rules and pays for its commissioners' huge salary. in other words, says coburn, the front office runs the business of the nfl. he says business should be taxed. >> the individual owner and the teams should pay taxes. we're not going after them. but what they do is put all this confluence of money into the league office and do that as a nonprofit which means they're
not paying taxes like every other business that would be in a trade business like they are. >> reporter: so are all pro sports leagues nonprofits? >> no, major league baseball, gave up its tax exempt status in 2007. the nba never had it. both of those leagues seem to be making plenty of money. it seems to water down the nfl's argument that it would somehow be harmed if this tax status changed. >> but in reality with all the firepower that the nfl has in washington, the league's tax exempt status is probably not in any real jeopardy, right? >> senator coburn introduced his pro sports act just a little more than one year ago. it was read into the record, sent to a finance committee and has never been heard of again. in sports speak, it's been benched, zero chance of playing in d.c. >> fastcinatinfascinating. drew griffin, thanks very much. you see the horrifying scenes from liberia. we do not think you've seen a report like we're going to show you next.
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the numbers, more than 2800 people have now died from ebola in west africa. and more than 5800 are believed to be infected. the agency has warned that the number of cases could double every three weeks. as i said, today we saw it firsthand from our reporter on the ground in one of the hardest hit counties in liberia. elizabeth cohen arrived just after the u.n. called for global response. president obama announced new steps to help lead the fight including sending u.s. troops to help plan treatment centers filled with beds that are so desperately needed. >> reporter: inside this ambulance, three ebola patients including a teenager. all of them denied entry to one of monrovia's overcrowded ebola treatment centers. the ambulance weaves through traffic trying desperately to get care where it's been promised, the city's newest ebola hospital opened just hours before, the island clinic. but when we arrive with the
ambulance, we find the hospital not ready. the patients in the ambulance we followed are strong enough to walk in, but there are ambulances already here carrying patients who are too weak to enter the hospital on their own. two patients stay curled up in a ball. these men can't move either. we're told he's not wearing clothes below the waist because of the intense diarrhea caused by ebola. try to come down and walk a little, a worker tells the man. i'm too tired, he says. then summoning up his energy, he tries. for now, he's left where he falls. this little boy tries to walk in, too, but then he collapses as well. get up and go inside, workers tell him. you'll only get food if you go inside. another worker says let him rest and they agree that's best for now. the workers tell us staff inside is suiting up in their protective gear so they can carry the patients in. the island clinic is supported
by the liberian government and the world health organization. we showed our video to peter graph with the w.h.o. his first reaction? >> it's horrible. i think what the mission is here that people still come too late. they're already very sick. that's when you get scenes like this. much better to come when you feel the first signs is and symptoms and get yourself help. >> reporter: many do try to get help and they're turned away over and over. >> that's why i'm so glad we opened this clinic. >> reporter: the hospital was open. >> i don't have the answer. yes, they should have. >> reporter: graf says perhaps the hospital became overwhelmed. almost all of the 120 beds were already filled within the first day. >> this is shocking. i mean -- and of course, this is exactly what we should try to do in the future. it's horrible. >> reporter: this is something
you're going to check on? >> of course we will, immediately. >> reporter: when we left the hospital, the boy and the man were still on the ground, the symptom of a system overwhelmed and a new hospital apparently unprepared. >> just so disturbing. elizabeth joins me live from liberia. were they unprepared? were they overwhelmed? do we know? >> really, anderson, there's no reason that they should have been surprised by this. people here know that there are hundreds of ebola patients in monrovia who don't have a place to go. they have a shortage of 700 beds. we ourselves have witnessed these ambulances running around the city looking for a place to put people to no avail. they knew they were going to get inundated. it's not clear to me, it wasn't clear to the gentleman from the world health organization why they didn't have people in protective suits ready to take these ebola patients who can't walk in because a lot are so weak that they can't walk in. it's really unclear what
happened yesterday. >> elizabeth, be careful. thank you. her young son died in a hot car and her husband is facing murder charges. leanna harris remains under scrutiny. who's going to make it happen? discover a new energy source. turn ocean waves into power. design cars that capture their emissions. build bridges that fix themselves. get more clean water to everyone. who's going to take the leap? who's going to write the code? who's going to do it? engineers. that's who. that's what i want to do. be an engineer. join the scientists and engineers of exxonmobil in inspiring america's future engineers. energy lives here. 58 seconds on the clock, what am i thinking about? foreign markets. asian debt that recognizes the shift in the global economy. you know, the kind that capitalizes on diversity across the credit spectrum
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the georgia man accused of killing his toddler by leaving him in a hot car is due back in court this week. his attorney says harris left his son cooper in the car by accident. prosecutor assist both harris and cooper's mother leanna harris had searched online for how hot a car has to be to kill a child. the mom is not charged with anything, but she took a polygraph anything. it was not court sanctioned and was administered by a private company. but her attorney says that she passed that polygraph. i spoke with him a short time ago. first of all, how is your client holding up? one thing to lose a child, then to have this entire legal battle and her husband facing possibly the death penalty. >> she is holding up as best as any human being can. she's strong, but she's very scared. she has lost a child.
she's lost her husband and she's waiting to see how this whole thing plays out, but it's very scary for her. >> she still supports her husband. she believes he's innocent. >> yes, she believes it's an accident. there's no doubt in her mipd. >> no doubt at all. has she always been supportive of her husband. >> she's always thought it was an accident. she's never had a doubt. she's never voiced a doubt to me. >> even when things came out in court about him and his private life, she didn't waver? >> no, she didn't waver because she always knew and she saw the relationship that he had with their child cooper and he was always a great dad. she never saw anything different. >> so what does -- what happens now? is she able to see her husband? >> she can go to the jail and she can see him and she does when she's in town. and she can talk on the telephone. and those calls are monitored by the jails. they can't have conversations that are personal as far as how
you are doing, talk about emotions. >> because they know people are listening in. >> nothing nefarious but you can't talk about intimate details of their life. >> have you talked to her about the possibility of him facing the death penalty. >> we chatted about that. we spoke about it today because this week the district attorney's office is going to announce whether they'll seek the death penalty. she really is trying to take things one day at a time. it's hard for her to fathom because she believes it was an accident. she believes that deep down in her heart. her friends and family believe that. she can't then put that together and think that they're then going to move for the death penalty for mg they all think is an accident. >> does they want to be in court? does she want to follow this day by day in process in the courtroom? >> sure. she'd like to be present whenever he's in court. the district attorney's office has sent her a letter because she's considered a victim by the d.a.'s office. they sent her a letter asking if
she wants to be in court when he's arraigned. if they have hearings, whether she'll be there or not. >> the state considers her a victim. does she consider herself a victim. >> she doesn't think she's the victim of a crime. she thinks she's the victim of a tragic accident. >> a mother who lost her child. >> a mother who lost her child. >> are you concern that she might in some way being accused? >> i'm always concerned with any client being accused because you have the police investigating, there's been all these crazy things in social media, some media outlets, not you, have said some things that have been uncouth and so of course i'm always concerned. i think at this point i would be very shocked if they decided to now charge her since they've already indicted the husband. >> you haven't gotten any indication that they were considering charges or that they would actually -- >> they haven't said one way or the other if she's even a suspect, a target or even if
they're planning on charging her. >> you did have her take a polygraph test. >> i did. >> that was something that you guys decided to do that was privately performed by your person. >> daniel sesnowski, 30 years doing polygraph. >> why did you want her to did a polygraph, it's not something admissible in court. >> if the district attorney's office ever came to me and wanted to know if she ever took one or if it would help as a negotiating tool if later on they were trying to press her and try to charge her. >> what were the results of that? >> according to mr. sesnowski, she passed three relevant questions. >> pertaining to -- >> yeah, did you know that your husband was planning on doing this? were you ever aware? did you have any involvement? >> you deal with a lot of people facing very tough circumstances, facing the loss of their livelihood, their freedom. overall how do you think she's doing? >> i think she's doing really
well. i couldn't imagine being in her position. i'm not so sure i'd ever be as strong as her losing a child. i have a child, too. i look at her. she is a pillar of strength. >> thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> just ahead, another live hour of 360 including breaking news in the search for university of virginia student hannah graham. the fbi now involved in the case. we'll talk to the police chief. they now have a wanted poster out, a person they're seeking in connection with graham's disappearance. >> i believe that jesse matthew was the last person she was seen with before she vanished off the face of the earth. let me say that again. i believe jesse matthew was the last person she was seen with before she vanished off the face of the earth! because it's been a week, and we can't find her. >> that's the charlottesville police chief, chief longo. my interview with him when we continue. [ female announcer ] you change your style. why not your eye color? new air optix® colors prescription contact lenses
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business energy checkup tool can really help. you can use it to track your actual energy use. find rebates that make equipment upgrades more affordable. even develop a customized energy plan for your company. think of it as a way to take more control over your operating costs. and yet another energy saving opportunity from pg&e. find new ways to save energy and money with pg&e's business energy check-up. good evening. thanks for watching this special extended edition of ac 360. topping the news the search for hannah graham, the fbi now taking a role. police in charlottesville put out a wanted poster with this man's face on it. at the moment he's only wanted for reckless driving, but he's clearly of greater interest to authorities. in a moment you'll have my interview with charlottesville's police chief, but first the latest from jean ka sar es.
>> reporter: as police go into the second week of their search for hannah graham, the search is now on for jesse matthew. >> we want to talk to him. >> we want to talk to him about his interaction with a sweet young girl we can't find because he was with her. >> reporter: today police issued this wanted poster. >> it's important we talk to jesse matthew for very obvious reasons but it's also important if that he and hannah parted ways on this mall, we need to know that as well. >> reporter: police have not charged matthew with graham's disappearance, but he is wanted on charges of reckless driving. police say he was seen speeding after showing up saturday at the police station and asking for a lawyer. >> detectives don't know any more about the interaction he had with that young girl any more than the moment he walk in. >> reporter: the 32-year-old has been employed since august 2012
by university hospital as an operating room patient technician. according to police surveillance video shows matthew putting his arm around the 18-year-old. they say they ended up at the temple restaurant. i asked investigators if they can confirm the two left the downtown area together. >> we do have them together after they left tempo restaurant. so he's still with her at that time. >> reporter: law enforcement searched jesse matthews' apartment for a second time today. police say forensic ruls of items previously collected won't come in until tomorrow. and earlier i spoke with jesse matthews' family. they say his attorney told them not to comment. graham's family hopes that someone comes forward with information that will bring their daughter back. >> somebody knows what happened to hannah. and others may be watching and they may know something about what happened to hannah.
>> reporter: police believe matthew can provide answers that graham's grieving parents need to know. >> jean joins me now. obviously a lot of activity today. i want to talk to the police chief in just a moment. are authorities talking about their plan tomorrow? >> reporter: the police chief told me that his forensic investigator spent hours on the car of jesse matthew collecting potential evidence which has been at the crime lab. they wanted the results today. they think they're going to get them tomorrow. and that's critical right there because they're looking for a link, they're looking for a crime that may have occurred in that car right there. and secondly, jesse matthew is a wanted man. there are arrest warrens out for him on reckless driving. he's not turning himself in. police are actively looking for him. so something could change in that area tomorrow, too. he could be arrested and brought -- yeah, brought to the police department. >> only a matter of time on that one. earlier this evening i did have a chance to speak with the chief of police, chief longo. here's what he said.
what's the latest on the investigation? where do things stand? >> well, we're still looking for jesse matthew. as you know, he came into the police department on saturday afternoon. he asked for a lawyer. our commonwealth attorney was consulted, asked us to acquire a lawyer on his behalf. we did that. a lawyer came, spoke with mr. matthew and about an hour later the two walked out of the police department without a statement. so we haven't seen him since then. you might also recall that shortly thereafter he was seen speeding off and driving in such a reckless disregard that the officers who were behind him in a neighboring jurisdiction had to disregard and disengage and have since gotten warrants for him for two counts of reckless driving. so we're looking to serve those warrants but more importantly we're looking to sit down with jesse matthew and find out what happened to hannah. >> how much do you know about the night hannah disappeared, as
well as whatever interaction she may have had with this guy jesse matthew? >> we know by video surveillance that they first engaged each otheren the mall as she was walking eastbound. >> he had had db. >> investigative means --. he was going eastbound, she was going westbound. he doubled back and they both proceeded eastbound together. we're told after that they made it to the tempo restaurant and bar, which is just over my shoulder, a distance behind me, that they were in there a brief period of time. he purchased alcohol on her behalf. they were seen leaving together by eyewitnesses. we believe they made their way down the mall. that's the last we know at this point that we're willing to discuss. suffice it to say we believe they left this mall together. >> he was seen leaving the area in a vehicle, but it's not clear whether or not she was in that vehicle with him, correct? >> that's correct. i believe we have surveillance
video not far from here of a vehicle we believe is that vehicle leaving the scene, the angle of camera is such that we can't discern whether a passenger is in the vehicle or not. that's why it's so very important that we continue to recanvas surveillance video to see if we can catch that video leaving the downtown area either in a westerly or easterly direction. >> hannah's parents, they say her disappearance was the result of foul play. do you agree? >> yeah. there's no other way to look at it, quite frankly, there's no other explanation but for that. i wish we knew more than that, though. i wish we knew. that's why it's so important we speak to jesse matthew. >> at a press conference you asked the public for information about this guy. any information about his whereabouts or activities before that night and also in the days
subsequently, have you gotten people who know him coming forward to you? >> yes, sir. yes, we do. i certainly can't go into the substance of their information, but you know, as you pointed out, it's really important as well to know what his behavior was like and what his actions were after the time we believe the disappearance took place. up to this point, quite frankly, and we're engaged with people and talking to folks and people are calling in or writing in and they're providing us with information, unfortunately that information has not got us to a probable cause level. i think it's important to mention although you didn't ask, we work hand in hand with our commonwealth attorney, the chief prosecutor in these cases. he assesses the probable cause which causes us then to seek a warrant for this person's arrest. his opinion is we're just not there yet. >> appreciate your time, thank you. >> thank you, anderson. >> the search goes on. late tonight on the other big manhunt, authorities in northeastern pennsylvania say they have narrowed down the search area for alleged cop
killer eric frein. he's still out in the woods, territory he knows very well. alexandra field is on the scene tonight. besides the reported sightings do police have evidence frein is actually still in the area? >> well, they are expressing a lot of confidence that he is. and they feel they're moving in closer on the suspect. that's because of a couple of findings that we've recently learned about. we know now that police have found and ak-47 out here in the woods as well as ammunition. they believe frein left those things here. it wasn't clear if he abandoned those things or wanted police to find them, but it is evidence he's in this area. they're searching a few square mile of wooded area. they continue to narrow that search based on that evidence and based on tips of credible sightings they feel of frein. you got to underscore the point that hundreds of officers are involved in this search, they do so at their own peril. this is a man they believe
continues to harbor a serious grudge against law enforcement. he's a survivalist. he was on the rifle team. part of a military simulation unit. his father has admitted to police when his son shoots he doesn't miss. >> he still does have a long range rifle. >> absolutely. they still consider him to be armed and dangerous. he was believed to have the ak-47 and the rifle, so they assume he still has the rifle. one of the reasons why people in this area are still concerned for the officers' safety and their own safety. people are still being advised to use caution. but authorities here in pennsylvania are saying they do not feel civilians are the target. they feel that frein has had the opportunity to go after civilians if that's what he wanted. they're clear in maintaining they believe he's after law enforcement officials. coming up next, breaking news. what the white house fence jumping incident reveals about
security lapses. the investigation reveals also information about the fence jumper including his weaponry and past run-ins with police. hi! can i help you? i'm looking for a phone plan. it has to be a great one, and i don't compromise. ok, how about 10 gigs of data to share, unlimited talk and text, and you can choose from 2 to 10 lines. wow, sounds like a great deal. so i'm getting exactly what i want, then? appears so. now, um, i'm not too sure what to do with my arms right now 'cause this is when i usually start throwing things. oh, that's terrifying at&t's best-ever pricing. 2-10 lines, 10 gigs of truly shareable data, unlimited talk and text, starting at $130 a month.
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we're learning from authorities that he had 800 rounds of ammo in his car and other run-ins that may have suggested he intended to harm the president. jim acosta is at the white house tonight. for new information about the weaponly in the guy's car plus his past record, the white house has got to be concerned that this do have been much more serious. >> reporter: they are concerned. the president and the first family they left only five minutes before this incident occurred. all weekend long, the president and the first family were in camp david, the president was making preeted calls back to the white house to check on the status of this investigation. homeland security secretary jay johnson put out a statement saying there shouldn't be a rush to judgment, but anderson, some judgments are already being made within the secret service community. i talked to one law enforcement official who described what happened on friday night as inexcusable. >> there's a lot that didn't happen on friday night after this guy scaled the fence. security dogs weren't released nor was the white house front
door locked. >> reporter: right. i mean, the fact that the k-9s were not deployed that night is one big lapse in security that i'm hearing from a federal law enforcement official. those dogs are supposed to act like missiles and really just sort of go after an intruder who makes it on to the grounds and starts making his or her way towards that front door. one reason as to why those dogs were not deployed, i did talk to an official in some of these cases the dogs can attack the other officers. that's something they have to look at. the door is right over my shoulder, the reason it was unlocked that was typically the case up until friday night because there's so many people coming and going, just the human traffic through that door. but as we heard from josh ernest that has changed. that door is locked. >> does the level of security drop when the president has left? >> we did ask about that. the president does have a security detail that's with him
at all times and with the family at all times, so when they leave perhaps this detail may not be on guard, as you might see when he is at the residence or around the white house. but typically the way the secret service looks at their staffing here, they should be able to deal with any kind of situation at any time. and simply what happened on friday night is the ball was dropped and they're trying to figure out now as to how and how it can't be dropped in the future. >> besides locking that door which seems the most obvious thing. have they signaled any kind of changes they're going to make? there are things we know about in terms of security and things we don't know about. >> just from walking down pennsylvania avenue today, there were additional secret service officers patrolling the area. i was told by a law enforcement official that they are doing more surveillance, looking for people who don't belong here, don't look like they belong here. we don't always report on cnn when somebody, you know, tries to get inside the white house or when a baby goes to the fence
like several months ago. this is such a big tourist hot spot. one thing that's been talked about, they're talking about having magnetometers around the house and in various areas, but unclear how they would man those checkpoints because you have so many jurisdictions, the national park service, the secret service, the d.c. police department. so really that kind of measure is really just in the talking stage. >> this guy has a record. he was caught with a shotgun, with a map of washington, circled the white house as well as the masonic temple and intercepted with a hatchet outside the white house and searched in that incident. jim acosta, appreciate it. >> you bet. he knows what it is like inside the fence. this ammunition in the intrud intruder's car, the hatchets that he'd been previously caught outside the white house with a hatchet, previously had a
machete in the car as well. and previously he'd been caught with a shotgun and a map with the white house circled and some masonic temple circled. the fact that this guy had been arrested in the past, charged with possession of a shotgun, sniper rifle, how bad of a security lapse is this? >> well, anderson, unfortunately, there's no putting lipstick on this one. this is a really catastrophic security lapse. and i want to be clear on this. it wasn't just one or two seemed security measures that failed, uniformed officers, the dogs that you mentioned, but there are a lot of unseen mechanisms that failed as well. that's why so many active and retired agents that i've spoken to are so disturbed about how this happened. >> can you walk us through what should have happened that didn't happen? i know there are unseen measures and you don't want to discuss those and that's fair enough, but what should have happened that we know of? >> well, the dog should have
been deployed. we have belgian malinois. we don't use german shepherds. the dogs are specifically trained to knock those targets down. anderson, if you've ever seen some of these training videos of malinois or the police attack where the dogs hit the man in the chest, it's like getting hit by a man on a motorcycle. it's almost impossible to stay up. why the dog wasn't deployed i think is the question that i hope an exhaustive analysis will get to the bottom of that. but that to me is puzzling. remember there's a handler, and the handler ultimately has to deploy the dog. obviously the dog doesn't walk the grounds by himself. but why the handler chose in this case not to has just about everybody puzzled. >> what's terrifying about this is had this guy had a suicide vest on with explosives, he could have gone in the white house and blown up the portico. >> exactly. you just said it. this is frightening because you
don't know -- he was a rather big individual. suicide vest could have done some significant damage. and anderson, he could have gotten in there with even that knife and taken a hostage. you know, we're thinking worst case scenario, but even lesser degrees of threat are a serious problem. if you're in there with a blade to someone's throat, whoever it may be, i mean, you've got a very, very serious problem on your hands. >> i think some people would be surprised that he wasn't shot. i guess it's -- it is up to the secret service both uniformed and nonuniformed and sniper to make a judgment call about whether that person is wearing some sort of explosive device or a backpack explosive device? >> i'm glad you brought that up because this is an important .and i've gotten this question a lot today. the secret service agents and union formed officers in this case, you notice there's a guy to the left of the door in the video you're playing now that has his gun drawn.
they're subject to the same escalation and use of force guidelines that every other federal agent and law enforcement officer in the country are. they don't have any special powers. they cannot shoot unless there's an imminent threat to themselves or others. that didn't seem to be the case. i know it sounds kind of crazy to some listening, there was -- hands shoot, not feet, not ears, not eyes. he wasn't vocalizing a threat that we know of. there wasn't anything on printing of his garments or any explosive vest or any weapon underneath his clothing. and they're trained to look for that stuff. you're right. you can't shoot a trespasser. you can't. >> it's amazing, a lot of internal reviews going on. appreciate you being with us. thanks very much. >> thanks. >> up next tonight another breaking story. one more security concern inside washington potentially nationwide. some of the americans who went to fight in syria are now coming home and may already be here. the fear is they may be bringing some of the violence with them.
americans who went to syria to fight have now come home. jim sciutto has been monitoring developments. so 100 or so americans. maybe not linked to isis itself but that doesn't mean they don't have ties to other terrorist groups. >> that's right. these are americans who have tried or succeeded in going to syria to fight for militant groups, this includes isis but not exclusively isis. also other treemist groups like al nusra, which is tied to al qaeda as well as other more moderate groups. the concern here as you highlight is that some have managed to return home. intelligence is that none that fought with isis specifically have returned home. but others who fought for other militant groups, they're being tracked by the fbi and others, but just shows you exactly how deep the connection is between our own homeland and the fighting that's going on there in syria. >> how confident are authorities that they actually know who these people are and where they are because there was that guy from al nusra who came back to
florida according to "the new york times" and went back to syria finally blowing himself back. >> that's a great point, anderson. jay john, director of the department of homeland security, he said they have reasonable confident that they know where these fighters are. that doesn't mean 100%. it's hard to do this. they may have complete information on some of them or partial information on others. as you noted folks have gotten through that before. i can tell you this. that this has become a major priority for u.s. law enforcement, for u.s. intelligence. they're throwing all the resources they can at this. so the attention is rising and seeking the support of a country like turkey which is the key transit point into syria for these foreign fighters to help stem that flow on the way in but also keep track on the way out. >> isis is now calling for lone wolf style attacks against the u.s. through any means. >> they are. and this opens up a whole other possibility. because it means that you don't just need to have a fighter
returning from syria who has been trained, radicalized there, encouraged to carry out attacks when they return home. it can be other sympathizers including in the u.s. that are radicalized on the internet and this latest audio message encounseloring them to kill any nonbeliever, as they say, that they can, by any means possible. don't wait for directions from home base, but if you have the opportunity, take it. we saw in australia last week that there was a very worrisome plot foiled there, thankfully, but along the same lines, encouraging sympathizers there to carry out public beheadings. those lone wolf attacks harder to track than the fighters themselves. >> we saw a british soldier being killed on the streets in the united kingdom several months ago. joining me now is fran townsend. and former fbi and cia senior official phillip mudd. there has been so many emphasis on somebody who fought with isis
and comes back. what worries me the most are these lone wolves that watch this stuff on the internet and thing i can be part of isis without actually going over there. >> that's exactly right. you know, when you look at this and you triage the threat, you look at the foreign fighters, some percentage of them, some high percentage thoechl will be killed on the battleful, some who are smarter, more capable may be reserved to commit attacks either coming back to the us or in europe against american interests, but it is the lone wolf. they're harder to identify. they're harder to stop and intercept before he commit an act. you really rely on local police, local communities to identify those who are behaving sort of in a way inconsistent with their normal patterns exhibiting behavior that's concerning. >> is it the loan wolves that worry you the most? >> yeah, i would say it's the guys who aren't connected to the
heartbeat of isis. for a simple reason. that is, if you're connected to a larger organization and you live off mistakes and vulnerability. if you are part of a larger organization, you talk to the wrong person, communicate with the wrong person, associate with the wrong person, that is ed red meat to a security force. if you're sitting in a basement with two other guys and you're only ideologically inspired, as fran was pointing out, that's really tough to find in a country of 330 million people where you have civil liberties that mean you can't follow everybody around. it's the lone wolves who you have to worry about the most. >> it's really changed, fran, in that given social media, given sort of the way information spreads, a terrorist group doesn't even need to do a large scale style attack to either paralyze a city -- i mean, look at the attacks in mumbai. you had a handful of guys with ak-47s basically shut down mumbai for a couple of days as they took over other
installations. you had the beheading of a british soldier on the streets in new england. that can cause panic in new york city. if you have one or two of those in the united states, that can be a whole new ball game. >> that's absolutely right. when you listen to the message that the spokesperson for isis put out calling on the lone wolves to launch attacks. talk about get them in their homes, take them out of their homes, it's very sort of much more suggesting a much more personal style attack. something that we're very unaccustomed to in this country. you'll see people really frightened and really sort of taken aback by it and rightly so. so it's why the australia case was so concerning, right? can you imagine an innocent civilian not connected to a government installation or government official grabbed off the street, beheaded, filmed and had the body exposed is just unthingable. >> phillip -- let me interrupt
right now. i want to go to jim sciutto. what are you learning? >> hi, anderson. i've just been told by a u.s. official that the u.s. air campaign is under way in syria has started -- we've already begun to see social reports on social media online reporting air strikes under way in the city of raqqa, that the stronghold for isis in central, northern syria, but a u.s. official confirms to me that the u.s. air campaign is under way. i'm told it's a long night there. we should expect to see more of this. as you know, the pentagon had been telling us for a number of days now they are ready to go. they've prepared a list of targets inside syria isis positions they were confident in. they presented those targets, that target list to the white house for the president's approval. that's what they were waiting for. clearly they got the president's approval and just in the last few minutes i can tell you, anderson, that that air campaign
is now under way. >> i should point out, we've been monitoring this over the last five or ten minutes on twitter. i saw a tweet five or ten minutes ago from somebody in that area saying there had been a large explosion in what they believed to be the isis headquarters in raqqa. let's continue this discussion with phil and fran and jim. how many hard targets are there with a group like isis? we know in iraq isis is both a terror force but also in many ways a conventional army that has been using equipment that they've taken from the iraqi security forces. so it would seem as if there are at least a fair number of relatively low hanging fruit that the u.s. and others can strike. >> that's exactly right. and that includes in syria. remember when they took over -- after they took over the raqqa air base in syria, they issued an audio tape. it was graphic. it showed the battle, the hand battle, the mass executions
after they took it over. it showed surveillance video from the air as they planned the takeover of the air base. this is an installation, like any government would have an installation. this is an easy, hard target for them to hit. >> are there targets for the u.s. to strike in syria? >> we're going to be at this for months if not longer. divide targets into two categories. what fran and you are referring to quite rightly as low hanging fruit. >> i have more details. >> jim, i'm sorry, go ahead. >> listen, i'm sorry to interrupt phil mudd. i just wanted to share, anderson, details on the scope of these strikes right now. the spokesman for the pentagon tweeting now, admiral john kirby, that the air strikes are under way using a mix of fighters, bombers and tomahawk missiles and that this is not
only the u.s. carrying out these air strikes but also partner nation forces, those countries not identified yet, but you'll remember in the run-up to these air strikes there was talk, one in particular, of one or more air nation that may take part in the air strikes. you also notice that france just in the last week conducted its first air strike inside of -- inside of iraq exclusively although france at the time saying that they would only carry out strikes in iraq. and reports in british newspapers overnight that britain had agreed to take part in air strike. we do not know who the partner nations who are taking part in the u.s. tonight, but we do know that it was more than one nation who has planes in the air now. as i just said, these strikes, a broad variety of tools being used, fighter missiles and tomahawk missiles. >> does that mean definitely that there are airplanes from other nations in the air or that there are facilities being used
or over flights allowed in some countries? >> the language at this point, u.s. military and partner nation forces have begun striking isis targets. that would seem to say that aircraft are in the air as well but i'll seek further detail on that. >> everybody stay with us. i want to bring in jim acosta who is standing by at the white house. has the white house made any actual statement on this? >> they have not, anderson. i can tell you that they've given us over here what they call a full lid, so we don't expect to see the president or hear from the president or read anything from the president. later on this evening, of course, this is the white house, he's the president, that can change, but we don't expect that to happen. i think jim sciutto highlighted this, that this notion of partner nations conducting air strikes in syria, that's a very important development. as we heard over the last couple of weeks, white house officials, administration officials have been hinting that during this week they'll be rolling out or there will be somewhat of a
rollout of this coalition. which countries will be in the coalition, what countries and what role will they serve? we may be seeing the front end of that now. the reason they said this week is special because the president is heading up to the united nations to do a lot of things from the unsecurity council. and while this is a very interesting development that these air strikes have begun, keep in mind that administration officials have repeatedly said that they don't see a pure u.s. air power solution to the isis problem and that this issue of foreign fighters is going to have to be dealt with and the president will be getting some pretty high profile remark on that. they'll be seeking a resolution that would compel other nations to stick to the same kind of law enforcement and counterterrorism standards when it comes to tracking, monitoring and even stopping the flow of the foreign fighters in and out of to the u.s. and the battle fronts. >> you were just saying that
this is the beginning of a long campaign with a variety of different kinds of targets. >> think about what we just heard in the past minute, anderson. that is strikes with major air platforms against the isis military infrastructure, if you will. things like tanks, headquarters, contrast that to what we've been doing in somalia and yemen against the -- go ahead. >> go ahead, phil. >> against the slivers of these organizations that are involved in things like recruiting westerners from europe and the united states. what i'd expect to see over time is a conversation about not only how we hit isis insurgent targets but also how we hit those individuals point targets who are responsible for staging terrorism against places like london and new york. very different target set than what we're seeing tonight. >> jim sciutto, sorry, did you have something? >> i want to be sure. >> jim -- i'm told jim's on the phone, we can just hear his microphone. so fran, this does not mean that -- this is now just one leg
of the operation. the attempt to identify and train, you know, anti-assad forces inside syria who will also fight against isis, that continues. that's one leg of this. and obviously the multiple legs inside iraq. i mean, this is an open-ended engagement with a timeline that's completely unspecified. >> that's right. in some ways the three-dimensional chess game, right? because you got the effort inside iraq. you got the effort inside syria. you got the training effort that's being conducted both in jordan and saudi arabia. the president is creating this coalition. you ought to expect to see not only more of a diplomatic effort but also a financial effort out of treasury. additional sanctions and things to target the leadership. and as phil points out, what you're seeing they're hitting tonight infrastructure targets. main military headquarters in raqqa and you ought to see a
real campaign to go after leadership targets. where is al baghdadi and what are we doing to target him? >> phil mudd, in terms of targeting, this isn't like when the u.s. was going against command and control facilities of the iraqi military in the -- before the ground invasion started in iraq. it's not as if there are such major command and control facilities. this is still an insurgent army which is relatively mobile, no? >> i think that's correct. what you'll see over time is i think the degradation of the capability of isis to stage things like attacks with armored personnel carriers, for example. that's a pretty easy target to see what intelligence mean. but what you got to worry about over time is what we're talking about earlier, whether there's a capability in ice to bring together small groups of recruits in the united states. that takes a lot of intelligence to build a target, not only to locate the target but to ensure in civilian areas you don't kill a lot of women and children.
that also takes years of effort. remember in pakistan, al qaeda move from afghanistan to pakistan in the winter of 2002. we're still hitting targets there in 2014. people say why haven't we succeeded in three or four day, you got to get a different mind-set here. because we'll be at this for a long time. >> jim sciutto, you've been on the phone working sources. >> this is from a senior military official. first of all, there is more than one foreign partner taking part in these strikes and all those foreign partners are arab nations. i'm told that the u.s. the only non-arab nation that is taking part in kinetic strikes tonight. when we describe the participation of the foreign nations, arab nations, we're not talking about refruling but kinetic strikes actually dropping bombs. that's one thing. the other thing i'm told is that it started early this evening with the tomahawk missile strikes from sea, then later
airplanes, war planes, bombers and fighters went in to strike. these strikes are still under way. they're going to continue a number more hour, i'm told. and i'm also told this, that tonight the intention was to have initial very definitive blow against isis targets inside syria, that the major targets were on the list tonight. doesn't mean that tonight's the only night of air strikes by any means but that the pace tonight particularly intense. you'll see those strikes continue over the coming days, but that tonight will stand out for being -- i don't want to use the phrase shock and awe, you remember from the iraq invasion in 2003, but certainly this first wave the most intense, and i'm told that over the coming days you'll see more of a pace that we've seen with the strikes against isis in iraq, a more regular pace, but tonight very intense. they're ongoing, more than one arab nation taking part alongside the u.s. in these strikes. the u.s. the only non-arab
partner carrying out runs tonight. >> that's a very interesting detail. i also want to bring in retired lieutenant colonel rick francona -- we'll bring him in shortly. fran, in terms of the length of this, i mean, to jim's point, they strike hard tonight. the targets get harder and harder as time goes on. >> that's right. >> but since there is no timeline of this, this is not a run-up to a ground invasion, they can take as much time as they want. >> that's right. i think what we're hearing from the administration now is you're going to see an intense period tonight whether they're hitting large infrastructure targets, things that don't move. they know where they are. the second round is looking for mobile units that have seized equipment. you'll be able to find them from the air with reconnaissance and surveillance. but that will be a much more deliberate pace. it's the onesies, twosies, threesies. there's only a handful that have
this capable. the emiraties, the jordanians, arguably perhaps the saudis but certainly the emiraties and the jordanians have the air power to support a u.s. air effort. >> how possible is it long-term to continue an operation like this without forward spotters without people, you know, putting lasers on objects that they want to destroy. >> i think to identify the kind of targets we need to identify in the leadership over time and i'm talking about in terms of months, you're going to have to have some capability on the ground to do spotting. but i'm not just talking about spots a building, looking where women and children are, i'm talking about a human source, what we'd call in the cia, human intelligence to understand and penetrate isis to know where the people are that we need to target not only today and tomorrow. you can't only target people
with listening to people's telephones. you have to have human beings on the ground who can provide predictive intelligence about where somebody is going to be tomorrow. you have to have sources to do that. >> i want to bring in gloria borger. >> i think we need to presume, anderson, that we're not going to get details on who our partners are, specific names. i heard jim sciutto's reporting, but i don't think you'll get much more beyond jim sciutto's reporting this evening until this major action is over. but i do believe that this is something that clearly everybody was anticipating in washington, the president's made no secret that he wanted to do it. that he went up to the united nations trying to get a coalition together and it
certainly seems this evening that he's done it. >> i want to read a statement that rear admiral john kirby, pentagon spokesman, has put out saying i can confirm that partner forces are undertaking action against isil terrorists in syria using tomahawk and land attack missiles given that these operations are ongoing we're not able to provide additional details the strikes were made earlier today under authorization granted to him by the commander in chief we'll provide more details later as operationally appropriate. i want to bring in commander of u.s. forces in iraq from 2007 through 2009 and retired air force lieutenant colonel rick francona. what do you make of the start? >> this is the start of striking strategic target. general austin, the commander of central command gave some of the target lists to the president last week when he was visiting in tampa. i think these are all the first step in striking a strategic
blow against isis in syria. >> but a group like isis, again, i go back to command and control structures that the u.s. targeted in the run-up to the ground war in iraq years ago. we're not talking about massive command and control structures. we're talking about buildings that a group of isis fighters happen to be staying at. >> right, we're not talking about an intelligence center or a command and control center, but i think we do have some targeting capabilities to see where some key elements of this force might be. not only their leaders but also their intelligence gathering and their maneuver forces. >> i just also want to point out raqqa on the map obviously up there in the north there, a little bit northwest of syria, obviously, about as far from iraq as you can getted in se ei but also a heavy isis area, an
area they took over that's a major staging ground for them. >> they call this their temporary capital. they believe baghdad will be the capital of the caliphate once they get it established. this is where they set up the state. this is where they're the most established. not only do they have their whatever passes for their command and control, but they've got a lot of people there. they've got a lot of resources there and military equipment that came from iraq, that they captured was taken to raqqa. it's wise to hit i now before they have a chance to disburse it. we saw the initial disburgs of these assets to different places. it's good that we're hitting them now. >> that's a critical point because raqqa is a city of about half a million people. even if you take the upper end of what might be isis in the area, 20,000 maybe? you're talking about
interexperiencing some terrorist targets with a population that wants no part of that. >> that 20,000 figure we should be careful with that because that chus guys who are unemployed that kind of signed on, not clear of what kind of capabilities they have. the figure of actual fighters who are battle hardened, that's kind of an open question. >> it is an open question. go ahead. >> raqqa is important because this is the first city they set up the state and set up draconian measures. the gruesome videos where they had the heads on pikes, the gruesome beheadings and crucifixi crucifixions, that is in raqqa. all the not good for isis in raqqa. this bombing might generate some sort of anti-isis feelings.
>> jim, what are you learning? >> just want to add something, anderson. in recent days i've been told by more than one military official that they believe that isis has been moving around increasing its concealment, hiding weapons, concentrating its positions as well inside urban areas. this is something that the u.s. military and other intelligence agencies were observing in recent days. of course, that can be a concern because it makes these key targets harder to hit, but i was told in the run-up to the beginning of the air campaign this evening that u.s. intelligence agencies, the department of defense remain confident that they knew the major targets they wanted to hit and that they could hit those targets with precision. that's what we're seeing now. about two dozen targets tonight described as major targets this evening. i mentioned a few minutes ago that tonight intended to be the most intense night of this air campaign. again, don't want to call it shock and awe, but i've been
told that after tonight not only will they have more details about targets hit, sorties run, partner nations that took part, but that in coming days while the air campaign will continue it's unlikely to be as intense targets inside iraq. >> general hurley, when jim says a major target for isis, what is a major target for isis? i mean, again, i just keep trying to understand, what is -- you know, it can be a bunch of guys in a room. it's not as if they have a bank of computers. or maybe they do somewhere. to handle their money. >> well, you're talking about the command and control element, which we're used to in the west, is not what you're going to see in this area. it's not only going to be the commanders, if you want to put it in that terminology. it's going to be their intel folks. it's going to be their imams who give them permission through sharia law to conduct some of their operations. it's going to be some of their financiers. and these are the kind of strategic tarkts we have to go after. >> financial thing really interests me because obviously
we know isis has a tremendous amount of income coming in not only from money that they've been able to take although the reports are varied about how much they've been able to get from iraqi banks and the like. but they make millions of dollars, said to be millions of dollars each day from oil fields in syria. would those be targeted as well? to prevent them from being able to kind of sell oil on the market? >> i don't think those would in effect be targeted. those are the kind of things that are going to be part of the long plan on this. so stopping the fraudulent exit of oil tankers out of syria and iraq and other nations, that's where they're selling the oil. they're going across the border and doing those kind of things. again, this kind of an attack will blunt them. it will say hey, we are coming after you. it isn't the shock and awe campaign that as general dempsey said the other day is not what we're after. it is going to be a we now are on your tail and we're going to make you suffer for some of the things you've done. >> but phil mudd, a crucial part of this, not only in syria but
also really quite more importantly in iraq, is trying to get the sunni supporters who have helped isis, who are fighting with isis, who provided a lot of the military know-how, the conventional military know-how for isis in the battlefield over the last couple months, trying to get them to peel away just as the united states did in 2006, 2007 during the sunni awakening, but without having large numbers of u.s. personnel on the ground getting those groups to peel away is going to be all the more difficult unless there's real change by the iraqi government, a 2k3w069 which has alienated huge numbers of sunni, a government which has been run by shias over the last several years. and this conflict can be seen as part of the sunni-shia divide. >> i think that's true, but we've got two opportunities here, anderson, that i think ultimately over the course of months or years will lead to success. isis will not prevail. the first is we have an opportunity in baghdad, we've seen a change in leadership.
there have been modest gains there. the second point, though, is even more important. and that is isis in my judgment will be the architect of its own demise, just as militants like this who killed 150,000 people in algeria in the 1990s were the architects of their own demise. if you're a sunni tribesman -- that's true. in america it's interesting. we talk about shock and awe. i've seen newspaper articles the past few days saying hey, are airstrikes working? we have an optic in this country that is so fundamentally different than what the adversary i saw thought. they think in terms of decades and their grandchildren. so until we start to understand that degrading them and inspiring sunni tribesmen is a years-long process, we will not prevail. but ultimately that's what will lead to success. isis will alienate these people and the sunni tribesmen ultimately will start killing isis. >> jim acosta, i understand you have some new information? >> that's right, anderson. i was curious whether or not
these air strikes are happening in syria tonight. for time-sensitive reasons because the president is going up to the u.n. this week. and it is an awfully delicate time to start a new front in the fight against isis in this war on isis. and i was told by a senior u.s. official that that is not the case, these are not time-sensitive targets that are being hit tonight, that these are hard targets, these are buildings that are being hit. so that is obviously something we're going to have to watch and see as it develops. because if we're talking about this very important city of raqqa in syria, where obviously isis has a high concentration of command and control, if they're hitting buildings they may be hitting these fighters where it hurts tonight, anderson. >> it's interesting, general. people from the white house keep saying, well, look, there's a new government in place in baghdad, as if that's going to suddenly overnight change things. i mean, yeah, there's a new prime minister. there's a new president. they haven't appointed a defense minister. they haven't figured out who the interior minister's going to be. those are very controversial
positions. they haven't gotten their act together on that. >> and beyond that that government in iraq in baghdad has not reached out to the sunni tribal chiefs. >> and in fact, the general, the officer corps of the iraqi military has effectively been decimated by al maliki, who put in -- people would pay to become a general in the iraqi military because it was so lucrative for them. and those generals abandoned all their troops. so changing, reforming the iraqi military, getting them operational, getting the government to actually reach out to tsunamis, there's no clear evidence that's going to happen anytime soon. >> i think the campaign plan right now, anderson, is going to be a strategic offensive, which we've seen tonight in syria, and a strategic defensive within iraq. again, it's somewhat what we saw in the surge of 2007, where we're giving time to the iraqi government to get their act together. it's going to take years for them to get the rebred general
officer corps to get the connection with the tribal sheiks and the provincial government in the north and the west. that's not going to happen anytime soon. >> if i'm an iraqi sunni who's right now allied with isis, do i really have confidence that this new government is really going to reach out, is really going to start to share some of the money al maliki took away? plus when you see these iraqi -- these shia militia death squads who are basically the most effective fighters right now in some of these iraqi military units that are enmeshed with iraqi military units. so if i'm a sunni and i see these shia militias running around, do i really have confidence that these guys represent my interests? >> absolutely not. and here's where the coalition becomes critically important. i think why you hear so much from the president and the white house about building a coalition. because the people they do trust are the other sunni arab allies in the region. it's the saudis. it's the emiratis. the people who reach into these tribes, who can say to them, look, this is a new start, we're
here with you where we don't know who the arab allies are involved in the air campaign. but it gives them credibility with the tribes to say we are participating now. physically participating in the military offensive. we are going to see this through, that you are protected and that you are represented. and so you're going to have to give this time. but us telling them, or worse, the iraqi government telling them to trust this new government, no, of course we don't have credibility. but our arab allies do continue to have credibility because they also pay these tribes. they also help support them. >> you guys know this better than anybody. but no matter what you plan before the bullets and the bombs start going, everything changes once kinetic activity begins. >> the old military adage of no plan survives first contact. >> so we can say, well, we're working with the iraqi security force. we can say we're identifying moderate rebels inside syria but when the rubber hits the road we really have no idea where this
is going. it's hard to predict what happens. what will assad do? we don't really know. will these moderate shia reblds who we start to fund, will they stop attacking assad? will they really devote most of their time to attacking isis? these are things we don't know. >> right. the free syrian army, if that's who we're putting to be our proxy boots on the ground, i think that's just a coin toss because they'll take the money. they'll take the training. they'll take the weapons. and then they'll continue to do what they want to do. >> assad is priority number one for a lot of them. >> exactly. >> jim sciutto, i understand you have more information. >> just been pushing for identification of these arab nations taking part in air strikes and i'm told by a senior u.s. official that three of those nations are saudi arabia, the united arab emirates, and jordan. we reported a short time ago that more than one arab nation was taking part in strikes dropping bombs, kinetic activity, and that in fact the u.s. is the only non-arab nation taking part here. so no european partners. it's the u.s. and these three
arab nations. again, saudi arabia, uae, and jordan. if you were to pick three countries in the region to be, taking part in strikes like that, this would be the three because of capabilities but also because of past participation. uae, for instance, has been taking part in flights over afghanistan. also took part in strikes against libya. saudi arabia certainly has capability and jordan as well. has been very deep into this conflict, not only in terms of providing intelligence but also the possible participation of jordanian special forces as something of a ground presence going forward. this is really a remarkable coalition when you consider the arab partners takingpart. >> fran, you travel in the region a lot and you listed these countries before as the most likely. >> that's right. >> but it also bears pointing out they also have the most to fear from isis. >> that's exactly what i was going to say. >> the jordanian monarchy hangs in the balance. >> not only do they have the capability they have the most to
lose. those are three countries that have spent their political investment in pushing the administration to act. >> i want to thank all our guests for joining us. the news out of syria and washington continues to unfold. of course cnn's going to be bringing it to you throughout the night. as we leave you tonight we hand it off to don lemmon and alisyn camero camerota. this is cnn breaking news. >> there is breaking news tonight. the pentagon says air strikes against isis in syria have begun. geeng, everyone. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. >> we've been waiting for this moment for weeks and here it is tonight. i'm alisyn camerota. pentagon spokesman admiral john kirby says tonight, "i can confirm that u.s. military and partner nation forces are undertaking military action against isil, terrorists in syria using a mix of fighter, bomber, and tomahawk land attack missiles. given that these operations are ongoing, we are not in a position to provide additional details at this time," he says. >> but he did go on to say, the statement goes on it say that