tv State of the Union With Candy Crowley CNN October 26, 2014 9:00am-10:01am PDT
on cnn.com. read more about ben bradlee there. and join us live or set the dvr and join us delayed. the "state of the union with candy crowley" begins right now. this is cnn breaking news. good morning from washington. i'm candy crowley. new york, new jersey, and illinois abruptly imposed 21-day quarantines on all health care workers returning from west a africa and the first person to be quarantined is a nurse who wrote in the dallas morning news about her concern of other workers returning to the u.s. quote, i'm scared that like me they will arrive and see a frenzy of disorganization, fear and most frightening, a quarantine. we also heard more from one of the governors that imposed that quarantine, chris christie, the governor of new jersey this
morning defending that 21-day quarantine. >> the fact of the matter is that i don't believe that when you are dealing with something as serious as this, that we can count on a voluntary system. this is government's job. if anything else, the government's job is to protect the safety and the health of the citizens, and so we have taken this action. and i absolutely have no second-thoughts about it. i believe that the folks who want to take this step and willing to volunteer also understand that it is in their interests, and in fub lick health interest to have a 21-day period thereafter if they have been directly exposed to people with the virus. as we saw with what happened with some of the health care workers in texas, and with the cdc shifting the the protocols, we had people infected from that type of contact, and we can't have that in the new york/new jersey area, and that is why governor cuomo and i agree on this, and now you can see they agree in chicago as well. this is a policy that is going to become a national policy sooner rather than later.
>> joining us now on the phone, that nurse kaci hickox, now in quarantine in new jersey. kaci, thank you for join g ing . i want you to, i i know, a couple of days to get from sierra leone and you had been there with doctors without borders helping to treat and fight ebola. tell us what happened once you la landed at newark. >> that is correct, candy. i spent a month in sierra leone and when i arrive edd at the airport in newark, i of course, presented my paperwork to the immigration official, and told him that i had been in sierra leone, and so i verbally declared it myself as well as writing it in the documentation, and he was very nice and said, okay, well, they will have a couple of questions. and there were many people who asked me questions, and nobody seemed to be coercing the eff t effort, but a lot of the questions were repetitive, and
as an epidemiologist, i was surprised that i saw people writing in the margins of the paperrwork which just showed that they were not e prepare d o really capture all of the information they thought they needed. obviously, i was there for many hours. my plane landed at 12:30, and i only left for the isolation center around 6:00 p.m. >> kaci, let me ask you something, and interrupt you for a second, because i want to know, did this, the questioning, and by my tally, you were there five or six hours at the the airport and is that correct? were you surprised by this? did you know that there had been a quarantine put in place for all health care workers from the three affected countries including sierra leone? >> as far as i knew, you are rig right, i was at the airport for five or six hours, and before i arrived, i had heard the news that a doctor from doctors without borders living in new
york city had tested positive. so i assumed that there would be maybe further question iing tha before, but as far as i knew when i landed, there had been no official quarantine order for new jersey or new york, and so we are looking into that detail, but of course, i don't have that information at that time. >> and so once you got to the hospital, what happened? >> once i got to the hospital, they of course tested my blood. they asked me a few more questions. i do want to say that everyone here all of the doctors and the nurses that have been caring for me and ems workers have been fantastic. so up portive and they have offered to give me books and to bring me pizza hut, and they are fantastic. they have gotten caught up in a political mess. so i don't envy them. but, yes, they tested my blood, and it is confirmed that it is
negative. i know that there are reports of me having a fever in the airport, but i truly believe that it is an instrument error. they were using a forehead scanner and i was distressed and a little bit upset and so my cheeks were flushed and i believe that there is some evidence that machine is not very a accurate in these kinds of situations, so when i arrived in the isolation unit they took my temperature or rally and it normal. >> has it remained normal? >> yes, it is completely for the ma -- normal. and i heard from my mother who was concerned that governor christie said in an interview that you were quote, unquote, obviously ill. that is so frustrating to me, because first of all, he is not a doctor and secondly hurricane he has never laid eyes on me, and thirdly, i have been asymptomatic since i have been
he here. i feel physically completely strong and emotionally completely exhausted. but for him to say that i am obviously ill which is even a strange statement, because what does that mean, because i don't understand what "quite obviously ill ill" means, but i a am here to tell you that i am completely fine physically. and being held here is just -- i just am not understanding. >> what is your understanding about how long -- and what have they told you about tomorrow and the day after that and the day after that? >> this is the other concern that i have. i have not been communicated a a clear plan. my quarantine order was written by the new jersey health commissioner and even to this day, no one has told me what it means or what the plan or no one has told me how long it will last. i don't know if i will be
retested, and if so, i don't know why i am retested, because i am completely asymptomatic, and it is not accurate if you are not symptomatic. and i spoke with the health commi commissioner christopher, i believe is his name, and i said, the only thing i have to the say to you is that i want a answer for the clear plan. nobody has communicated with e ma many, and you have put me in an isolation unit without communicating medically or public health, you know, scientifically, logical chain of events that need to happen next. this to me is just completely unacceptable. i spoke with him at 6:00 p.m. last night, and now it is 11:00 a.m., and i still have not heard to anyone as to what the next plan is for me. >> as far as we know, and in is not certainly going to e relate specifically to your case, but it is a 21-day quarantine. and can you deskrcribe to me li where you are right now? what does it look like? are you in the hospital in a
room or -- >> sure. i am outside of the university hospital, itself. in a different building, i believe. although i can only say what i can see from the tent. i am in the staging within the building. there is a hospital bed. they bring me food. i have a port-a-potty restroom, and no shower facilities and no connection with the outside world except my iphone which i insisted that i brought with me when i arrived late friday night. >> so et let me ask you this from a different point of view, and you have been over in sierra leone and everyone would salute someone who puts their live -- life on the line to help someone and we have heard over and over while you have been away how vital it is for the countries to send doctors and nurses and
other health care workers to fight this disease where it is. in order to save the countries as with well as protect the rest of the world, but understanding that the doctor who is now in quarantine in new york city was home seven or eight days before he spiked a little bit of a fever, and then he was put into isolation, do you understand the need of governors and be they from new jersey or new york or illinois to say, we can't take this risk that somebody is out there with the fever, or will spike a fever eight or nine days after they arrive, and we need to make sure that they are in isolation until we we know that they are past the danger zone. do you understand that psyche? >> i completely don't understand it. really, it is completely not understandable to me. it is not based on any clear public health evidence, and it
is not the recommendation of public health and medical experts at this point. you know, i think that we have to be very careful about letting the politicians make public health and medical decisions. all of the medical evidence about ebola shows that if you are not symptomatic, you are not infectious. so for instance when i arrived, i was not symptomatic, and that friday they tested my blood, and i am negative. so i did not have symptoms, and the blood is negative for ebola. no way to be contagious. and for anyone to tell me that i need to be isolated and be under a quarantine is just completely unacceptable, and i believe, you know, imposing unnecessary -- >> because you have been gone for so long, in the united states, there are what appears to be missteps by the cdc, and certainly by a hospital in
dallas which got an ebola patient someone who was certainly ill from it, and clearly had the, you know, communicable at that point. >> and i would like to remind you that he was not an aide worker. >> sure, no, no. and i would like to say that, all i wanted to say is that there is a feeling that the federal government and the doctors who advised the federal government don't actually know how to contain this, and i think that it is out of that concern from the public thinking, wait a second, they told us it could not come here, and they told us that we could deal with it, and it hasn't always come to be so. they have had to change their protocols dealing with health care workers and so on, and so that is somewhat pushing this drive. so, you know, do you, having said that, you landed without knowing about a quarantine, and it seems to me, in one of the
things that you wrote was i'm scared and talking about other workers coming back, and they will arrive and see a frenzy of disorganization, and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera and most frightening a quarantine. can you tell me why the quarantine of the fear that you must have certainly felt what are these people up to getting, you know, a police are ride with sirens anding over to the the hospital. so i understand that fear. and not knowing what is going on, but tell me what is frightening about a quarantine. >> well, for me, it is two things. and i have experienced it. so unfortunately, i think that i can say these two things pretty confidently, and the first is that -- for instance, all of the health care workers taking care of me. they are seeing me, and the ppe and then going home to their families, so that the quarantine doesn't in how it is being carried out, it does not make
common sense. it is not evidence-based. and secondly, i set inhumane. i just came back from one of the most difficult months of my life, and i am complete ly -- ad nobody can predict if i will develop ebola, but to quarantine everyone in case when you cannot predict who may develop ebola or not, and to make me stay for 21 days to not be with my family and put me through this emotional and physical stress is completely unacceptable. >> you know, k can a krshakaci, things that we have learned from talking to the experts through the weeks is that there is no such thing as no risk, but you can get pretty close, and i think that you would concede as
a health kcare worker, sure, a low risk that perhaps you might be carrying, and might at some point be carrying the ebola virus that has not yet manifested in your body, and it is worth it to keep new jerseyans out of risk to keep you 21 days in quarantine? >> you know, i think that one of the frustrating things about this policy is it is obviously poorly planned out. the policy states that health care workers will be quarantined, but what about other people traveling from these regions as well. and you are right, there is no such thing as no risk, but i think that when considering this issue, we also have to balance what you're putting the health care workers through, and how evidence-based your approach is. for instance, are you then going to quarantine all of the health
care workerres w s who are look after the health care workers who have been at an affected area? so that is just a slippery slope. it is not a sound public health decision and well thought out. many of the experts in the field have come out to agree with me. so i think that we need to stress the fact that we don't need politicians to make these kind cans of decisions. we need public health experts to make these decisions. there always needs to be a balance, because i also want to be treated with compassion and humanit humanity. >> sure. >> i don't feel like i have been treated that way in the past three days. >> sure. >> and one of the things that governor christie said as recently as this morning is that
he is sorry that this is an inconvenience to you, but he is trying to protect a public that he feels in particularly densely populated areas has not been protected by the cdc and the administrati administration. i want to give you a chance to talk to governor christie, what would you say to him? >> well, the first thing i would say to governor christie is that i wish that he would be more careful about his statements related to my medical condition. i am not as he said quote, unquote obviously hill. i am completely healthy and with no symptoms, and if he knew anything about ebola, he would know that asymptomatic people are not infectious. i understand that people feel like they have a risk, and i think that we can have a conversation about what further measures might look like, but i think that this is an extreme that is really unacceptable, and
i feel like my basic human rights have been violated, and i hope that he will also consider me. i obviously, you know, all i want is to go home to my partner who is completely happy to have me home and is not scared at all, because he knows that i know more about ebola than most people in the u.s. and if i were the unlucky person like dr. spence r to develop su toms after returning home, i would be smart and do the right thing the and contact the local health department and be safe in going to a facility, and being isolated and tested, but this is just an extreme that we have to fight against. >> kaci hickox and thank you so much for your time and the first wish for you to remain symptom-free, and the second wish is that somehow you can work this out to the point where
you no longer feel that you are being threatened, you know, by just by having to stay in quarantine and that you get back to your life as soon as you can. thank you so much for your time this morning. >> thank you, candy. we did ask governor christie's office and the state of new jersey for a reaction to some of what kaci had to say, and the department of health did respond to kaci's statement that she didn't know exactly what was going on and nobody had presented her with a plan, et cetera, et cetera, and from are the office of director of communications, quote, the patient was given a copy of the quarantine order friday and receiving regular updated information. i want to bring in cnn medical correspondent elizabeth cohen who is outside of the hospital there in new york, and that is where dr. craig spencer is, and he is the latest person in the u.s. to have officially the
ebola virus. he is being treated. and let me start with his condition, elizabeth, and what do you know? >> we are told that he has moved into the next phase of the illness, which is diarrhea and vomiting. that is not unexpected. he is getting an antiviral drug and receiving a transfusion from nancy writebol who is an ebola survivor who was treated at emory. >> and i understand that you had spoken with kaci hickox and we have spoken with dr. anthony fauci at the nih and others who say that the quarantine is not necessary and it does not lower
the infin titesimal risk if tha is what it is, and what are you hearing about the quarantine in the three states? >> i have not spoken to a single medical expert or professional who supports this quarantine, and they believe it is not helpful, but hurtful, and here is why. maybe a tiny infinitesimal risk that someone comes back and feeling sick when they are out, and they are not going to be transmitting ebola when they feel ill. the minute they feel ill, they should isolate themselves, and they don't feel that there is a risk that someone like kaci hickox will transmit ebola, but there is a huge risk of quarantining her, because when she is quarantined, other aide workers who want to go say no. and many say, no, i can't spend a month in africa and then three weeks quarantine and are they going to be stuck? a tent like she is? allowed not the go home even
though they are perfectly healthy? and kaci is staring at the walls, and she did not have reading material or anything, and so if that is the case, you won't get help. and if the outbreak is there in africa is bad, it is going to be worse here. that is what is a known. >> and so, a mandatory quarantine was in effect when she landed in newark, and if she had known it is coming, would she have gone, e she said, truthfully i, would have gone anyway even though the quarantine is unjustified, but elizabeth in your talking to her, i got the sense of the abruptness of the feeling that she didn't know what was going on in the early five or six hours at the airport, and the siren and the police cars and ambulances and such take thing her to the hospital. that she seemed more upset with not knowing what they were doing
than the quarantine, itself, and i got the feeling that we should talk about this, and what is the plan. >> right. i think that she is upset with both. i think that you are right, candy. the quarantine order does not have an end date to it. and i have not seen a copy of it, and we have asked the state of new jersey for it, but we have not seen it either. and it is not an end date to it. that is the thing, you are perfectly healthy and stuck in a hospital in newark and you don't know when you will get out. she said she got a visit from the new jersey health department official yesterday and she asked him when am i getting out of here, and he said, i will check on that and get back to you, and they have not gotten back to her yet. and candy, it is an interesting question, if she is being quarantined and what about the nurse nurses and the doctors inside of this hospital, because they are take care of a known ebola patient, and she does not, and
they are take care of an active ebola patient and should they be quarantined, but as far as we know, they are not, and should the nurses and the doctors taking care of kaci be quarantined, because they are suspicious that she has ebola or they would not have her there, so it is raising questions that have not been answered. >> and lots of questions with different answers. so to be continued. elizabeth cohen, thank you very much, and we appreciate it. >> thanks. >> there are fears that quarantines by states might hurt the efforts of the ebola fight. and dr. anthony fauci of the national institutes of health will tell us what he thinks next.
fau fauci, and the long time director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases. you let go one of the nurses from dallas this week. >> right. >> cured of ebola, and that is a big relief to you. >> indeed. >> we now have a doctor quarantined up in new york, and that is apparently what prompted these new rules from new york, from illinois and from new jersey and what do you think of them? >> well, two principles that we need to stick with. >> one, protecting the american people is paramount, but to -- >> i agree with you on that. >> and you have got to make the decisions and the policy based on the scientific data, and the scientific data and the evidence tells us that people who are not ill and don't have symptoms, who, with whom you don't come into contact with bodily fluids are not a threat. they are not going to spread it. so we have to be careful when we make the policy that we don't have unintended consequences to group everyone in the same category, that just because you came back from there, that therefore, you are in this
category. we do have stratification of risks, and stratification of data. and i'm concerned for the disincentive of the health care worker, because it is interesting that the people lose that the best way to protect us is to stop it in africa, and one of the best ways to stop it in africa is to get the health workers who are going there to helping them with the problem. when they come back, they need to be treated in a way that does not disincentivize them from going there. >> and yes, the nurse sounded like she was surprised by this as was everybody else. but if a health care worker goes to west africa and deals with the ebola patients and mows when they come back, they are in a 21-day quarantine, what is the harm with that? >> well, the harm is that it is totally disruptive of their life if you put a person who is -- >> well, so is going to west africa to treat ebola patients. >> well, yes, but we want them to go because they are helping us to protect america by going there.
and what people need to understand is that the scientific evidence tells us that you are not going to be transmitting it. we don't want to be cavalier, candy. there are ways to monitor people. passive monitoring and active monitoring. >> and there is monitoring. >> yes, but when they come home, and in their home, and if they are at a certain risk, they will actively monitored in the sense of someone taking the temperature, and asking you if you have symptoms, and there is a difference of completely come fining somebody to not go outside to doing thep p -- appropriate monitoring based on the scientific evidence. >> in is based on the doctor who came back and had been treating patients in guinea, and he comes home, a shenld fine for four or five or six or seven days. >> right. >> and then feels tired, and the night before he comes down with the fever, he is out bowling, and eating dinner and doing the ordinary things, and gets a fever and reports himself and they come get him. you would eliminate a lot of
that. >> right. >> and you would not be worried about the fiancee or the bowling alley? the new york governor would not have to walk down the streets to prove that everything is just fine in the subways if you had to say, look, a doctor, and you have been treating the ebola patients and time for you to take 21 days off? >> well, there are monitoring gui guidelines that tell you how to do that in accomplishing the same goal. for example, the monitoring would have picked up at the time he got symptoms, and a temperature. before that, he was not infective to anyone. i know sometimes it is difficult, because people want to be completely 100% risk-free of anything, but when you do that, you might have the unintended consequence of having people not wanting to go over there, and if that is the case, they are not going to do very well if they don't have doctors and nurses helping them. >> so for you, the primary reason here is that you are discouraging the health care workers to go to help and stop
it where it counts. >> right. >> and i want to read you something that governor chris christie wrote one of those who joined in the mandatory isolation of the nurse. i 'm sorry if the nurse is inconvenienced, but inconvenience of having folks who are symptomatic and ill out amongst the public is a greater concern of me. and certainly, nothing intentionally was done to make her inconvenienced or to make her uncomfortable. >> but the scientific data says if you are not ill, and if someone does not come into contact with your fluids, diarrhea or vomit, they are not going to be infected. >> but part of the problem is that the american people don't believe the doctors in this anymore. >> and that is why people need to understand that the scientific data is what needs to drive the policies and the
decisions. there is not a cavalier attitude, the first goal is to protect the american people. but you need to do it in a way that has a scientific basis to it. >> and i guess a that the question is, as you know, it is widely perceived that the beginning of this in the dallas hospital, and the cdc and what americans felt that they were told about all of this got botched, and now the states, and certainly three governors don't believe that the guidelines are tough enough, and they will keep the folks in the state safe. >> well, first of all, we could go re-examine the early part that was difficult, and obviously, there was some missteps there, but again, you don't want to make a blanket change in something that might have negative consequences. you want to continue to make the sa safety of the american public paramount, but it is critically important that you do it based on scientific evidence and data. and it tells us who can transmit and who can't. >> another governor, florida governor rick scott has said that starting now, he wants to
have, to put folks that have come from west africa be they health kcare workers or otherwie in the three affected countries at this point into 21-day health evaluations with his department of health. and so twice daily they would take part in the health evaluations. >> right. >> and this is what he said when he put out the statement. we have asked the cdc to identify the risk levels of all returning individuals from the areas, and moving into florida, but they have not provided that information. >> right. >> therefore we are moving quickly to require the four individuals who have returned to florida already and anybody who will return to florida in the near future to participate in the 21-day evaluations. you see again, it is a mistrust of the cdc. >> exactly, and that is unfortunate, because there is a different level of risk. high risk, some, but then there
is minimum, and -- you have to look at it in a stratified way. when someone is high risk, you want to be clearly more aggressive and someone is some and no risk or some risk and then no risk. all of those things have to be taken into consideration. you want to make sure that you understand that you don't want to have negative consequences, but you have to underscore the fir first principle is to protect the american people. so don't let anybody get the idea that, that's not a concern, and we are only concerned about the convenience of the health care workers, because that is not the case. the first principle is always to protect the american people. >> right now, can you tell the american people, and we should say that you are the person that the administration wanted to have come out here to talk about this. >> right. >> and can you assure the american people that absolutely everything is in place -- >> right, right. >> -- that will keep them safe? >> it is a dynamic process and you continue to the re-evaluate,
and make changes and fine-tun g fine-tuning, and it is foolish for anyone to say that under every circumstances that everything is absolutely perfect. the government and the cdc, and the administration continually fine-tunes and makes sure that we are doing it right. we want to make it right. that does not mean from to get-go it is 100% right. >> but if you are the person who gets the ebola virus before you get it right, it is kind of -- >> but candy, the evidence, who has gotten infected outside of the health care setting? the two people, one of whom was infected because she put herself in harm's way of a patient with advanced disease. you to keep looking at the facts and not the what if, what if, what if, and if you do that scenario, you can have any situation that you could create in your mind. >> what about a travel ban? >> again, there is -- >> same thing? >> well, what you need to do with the travel ban, you have to look at what the possible negative consequences are. and what is the ish ssue that y are trying to address.
>> again, the concern is that, we treat this in west africa now. >> and get it settled in west africa and the best way, over and over again, the best way to protect the american people is to stop the epidemic in west africa. >> tell me as honestly as you can, is there something not in place that you believe should be be in place? >> well, as we continue to gain more experience, there is nothing egregiously out of place that should be in place, but you continue every single day take a look at where we are going, and is there something that needs to be changed and the american people need to understand that this is not something that needs to be checking the box and walk away and every single day, you need to make shure that you do what is best for the american people. >> dr. tony fau chi, thank you for coming e -- dr. tony fauci, thank you for coming by, and this is becoming a habit, and when we get this under control, you can can have a day off. >> thank you, candy. >> and the chairman of oversight committee will join me next.
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what more does the president have to do to keep ebola out of the u.s.? in the past week, the u.s. announced additional screening for passengers coming from west africa to force them to report symptoms to the cdc and there is a new ebola czar. and now, congressman darrell issa, let's talk about the three states that have imposed mandatory isolation for health care workers who have dealt with ebola in west africa. we have one nurse under the new rule in new jersey who is in isolation in the hospital, and what do you think of it? >> well, i think that the governors of both parties are
reacting to the absence of leadership, and absence of belief that the federal government does know what they are doing, and these missteps and some of thel them brought out by the energy and commerce committee and ours and others do really concern people that it is a 35-year-old disease, and if you don't know how the fight ebola, why are you changing the protocols after 35 years, and after we are told that the only way to get can it is to breach a protocol if you are a nurse. >> well, i'm not a doctor and i won't play one on tv. >> nor am i. >> and they would say that the experience with ebola has not been in the modern medical setting, and there were mistakes made coming into it. but i think that the -- >> candy, modern facilities are inherent inherently better than where we have been fighting it in africa, and they are saying in africa we know how to beat this, and the fact is, the nurses who in some cases were not fully covered
when somebody threw up on them, and you go, how could to protocol be changed a few days ago? >> because in africa, a lot of it is told by inserting the i.v. fluids and less of dealing with it, because it is so many cases of dyeing and it is more of the dehydration, than most other things, but having said that, and because we have two non-doctors to for death that conversation for a moment, but forget that question, but the question is, we understand why the governors may have done it, but is it a good idea. >> science has told us if we are to take them at the word that if somebody does not have an elevated temperature or the other later symptoms, we can rely on them not being contagious can, and if a that is true, then the immediate isolation of people for 21 days is not the answer. again, trust matters. if we had begun this process by sag that you have to monitor the people continuously coming into
the country for ten days, and now we think it is 11 or 12 and know whether the temperature rises to know whether they were exposed and we are doing that, then i think that the public would have confidence, but in this case, we didn't do that, and we had mr. duncan come in with the elevated temperature, and we were not check it, and now we are playing catch-up. and the important thing is that we need to agree that we made mistakes, and the government needs to have a plan, and candy, some of the plans are pretty straight forward. and when i was coming in, i looked and i said, you know how many apps are on the iphone that you can monitor your temperature continuously? we need to ask how are we going to have everyone coming into the country who may have had contact, and how do we make it easy, predictable, and verifiable that we are know iin the temperatures for those next x-amount of days. if we do that, then we have a monitoring system that can prevent this kind of individual action by the states.
if we don't do that, then the american people are asking their governors to protect them. >> and so if i understand you correctly, you don't think that this was a good idea, and that you do understand why the governors may have reacted. i want to read you something that the mayor of new york -- >> our hearing indicated from the people that we had that it was not a good idea. democrats and republicans pushed back and said, yes, but you have said these things, and now you not credible. that is the problem that we saw in the hearing. obviously, the energy and the commerce committee saw changes after they held their hearing that showed that the protocols were not yet accurate. so, again, this is about public confidence and the way to restore the public con fidence s that first you have leaderrship, and you then the admit -- >> well, there is a number of things that -- >> well, he appointed a lawyer, a and if it were an election problem, i would be less worried, but the fact is that i wish he had found a four-star general or admiral to coordinate the people who have turned out to the say things that are not
accurate and then don't want to admit them. the last doctor on, and he is playing the we didn't make mistake, and -- >> well, he said that there were problems and mistakes going on, and he did say that, dr. fauci. >> but he was so sure they were right and now people are dead and now governors of both parties are reacting because there is not a trust in the administration. get cting it back is do-able, a it is our responsibility, and it is our responsibility to second-guess what is said to make sure that the american people have watchdogs. >> i want to play something that the mayor of new york said, and he did not know that the isolation regulation would be put into effect in new york. this is what he had to say. >> these individuals who are going there to serve are the people who will end this crisis. we can't have the illusion that we can turn away from it and some day it will end. if we took that attitude, and
nation nations around the world took this attitude, it would be a devastating global crisis. >> and it is the same point that dr. fauci made that we can't discourage the workers from going there, because where this stops is in west a africa. would you agree with that point? >> absolutely. the fact is that we have to beat it at the source. just as we have, and i use this analysis or analogy in my hearing, just as the global war on terror is fighting isil, outside of baghdad and outside of ir bshgs ishbil and so on, y go to where this is. at the same time, the american people want to know where the 3,000 or so military personnel are being properly protected and that we are watching for them, and that we have a plan where the inevitably of one or more of them will be infected and that we will protect them. >> congressman, as a final question, you know that we are in the middle of midterms and one of the major -- >> heard a rumor. >> one of the major themes of republicans has been, he is, and
this president mishandling the isis and mishandling the ebola, and the fear-theme. so how is americans, and how do you help to bring back the confidence that you say that the american people need in the system, and these are doctors, and not politicians who came out here to say these things that later proved to not be exactly right. so how do you, how do i not look at your hearing, and how do i not look at the continuing criticism of the president who, you know, you can say he was late to the game, but trying to now put some procedures in place, and how do we not look at that through the political prism and say this just fits right into the republican talking point points? >> by ranking member mr. couple can in cannings and i asked for to a hearing, because we need the transparency to make it available to the american peo e people. ranking member mr. cummings, and this is the way of opening up, and doing business, and they
make the business to open up, and make the information available to congress, and congress then makes a decision with the president that we are doing the right things, and then confidence is restored. that is what we are doing with the war, if the you will, the battle against isil, and we are now having an engagement, and members of congress and myself e how is it going, a a nd the american people expect the congressmen to in fact be a part of the process to come home even during elections and say, hey, they made mistakes, but they are getting it right or closer to having it right, and we will look over the shoulder, and make sure they get it right on behalf of the american people. that is what we are doing, and i think that considering that we are only a few day ss away from the election, we are doing it on an incredibly not partisan basis by all of the committees. >> and quickly, would you call on the governors of new jersey, republican, and illinois and new jersey, saying, stop it, it is
discouraging workers and stop with it. >> and it is a good idea to monitor the temperatures of people coming here in from that region. >> and the isolation, stop that. >> they have to have a viable alternative, and if they feel they can monitor for 21 days, the ability to monitor the temperature for the moment they spike that they can bring the people into isolation, they would look to that. >> that is what happened in new york. with the doctor. >> no, it did not happen until a while afterwards, and when they go around and they disinfect places that he has been, that says that they did not catch it quickly. again, continuous monitoring so that you can quickly put these people in, and could be an al te terntive, but it is the leadership at the top. the governors are asking the white house and the administration to give them answer answers. if they give them answers better than what they are doing, the governors will do it. until that time, they are doing what they believe is right. >> i have to run.
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want to bring in senator dianne finestein, the democratic woman chairman of the senate intelligence committee. thank you for joining us. >> you're welcome. >> when you see in a single week we saw what happened in canada when a single gunman kills a soldier, we see a hatchet attack, of all things, on police officers in queens. both men seemed to have some affinity for, inspired by somehow violent jihad. you add in a woman in moore, oklahoma, who was beheaded by a disgruntled worker who had recently "converted to islam." you have the attacks in ft. hood. you have the boston marathon bombers who went online and seemed somewhat inspired by violent jihad. is this one big problem or is it separate problems?
>> oh, i think it's one big problem. i think one of the problems is that the internet as well as certain specific muslim extremists are really firing up this lone wolf phenomenon, and these attacks and the multiplicity of attacks in 2014 show that their propaganda is having some effect. my view of isis is, i think people do not see the evil and the vicious side of it. i don't see, think they see the beheadings of children -- >> yes, they're on, they do see beheadings, they're online shoot soldiers in a ditch, beheading journalists and others. >> i saw this, but essentially, i mean, for anyone that has any kind of value of a just system, isis doesn't make that case.
isis is essentially a fighting force of 30,000 to 50,000 people, sophisticated with commanders, with some heavy weapons, and they are on a march now, and they are going to slay everything in their way. >> in the propaganda wars it does seem that isis is quite sophisticated so let me, i want to talk to you about that and how the fight that, but i first want to ask can you about these lone wolves which basically show many of these attacks have been, and by definition, there's no known tie to a terrorist, direct tie to a terrorist organization of any sort. they're kind of one person cells at this point. what is the defense against that, senator? >> well the only defense is intelligence, and that is that you have to ferret it out. you have to be able to watch it, and you have to be able to disrupt them.
now, this is hard to do, because it takes technical means, and americans don't necessarily like technical means. >> right, or spying is the definition of technical means. >> well, that's right, and this in the united states, this falls under the jurisdiction of the fbi, not the cia, and i've been briefed by director comey, and i believe the fbi is making every effort to stay on top of this lone wolf phenomenon. i think the white house is cognizant of it and is working very hard to see that we have the ability to be able to find them and stop them. >> in the muslim community, the peaceful muslim community they would tell you in the u.s. that they feel some of the outreach that's being done by the feds, by the homeland security department and others feels like what the u.s. really wants is for the muslim community to become their spies within their community in the u.s. and that
is offputting, when they do feel targeted because of their religion, how do you bridge that? >> let me say this. the muslim community is a part of america, and as such, it has all of the protections of any community in america, and one of america's goals has been to integrate an immigrant community into our society and see that they have opportunity, that they're able to be productive, able to live without any kind of harassment and there are very few countries in the world that actually do that, united states does it. >> let me ask you, because i know that you lost two deputy sheriffs in sacramento over the weekend. >> yes. >> but we've also seen, and that does not seem, that seems like to be street crime as opposed to anything that's related to terrorism, but do you feel, looking at what we've seen on the internet, some of the appeals from isis, that folks in
police uniforms, that folks in soldiers uniform, whether in canada or the u.s., are now under an even bigger threat than their jobs would lead to you believe? >> i believe that to be true. i believe word has gone out into these communities that a strike target would be somebody in uniform, whether it is police or whether it's military, and i think you're correct in that assessment. >> and what's to be done about that? >> well, what's to be done about it is, i think the police and military have to be on guard. i think this is very difficult. i think halls of government have to be on guard the way the parliament and canada was penetrated. in canada, you had an armed sergeant-at-arms who took action and killed the perpetrator, and i think we need to think in some
new ways. i don't particularly want to discuss it on television, but one thing's for sure, we are going to protect our institutions of government. >> and i cannot let you go, senator, without asking about an article i read that posited that michelle obama would like to run for the senate in california, and that she has her eye on your seat in 2018 because the feeling is that you may retire at that point, and so i thought i'd get your reaction to that story. >> oh, did you? well, i have no idea what i'm going to be doing in 2018. that's four years from now, and that's one of the nice things of a six-year term. i've served two years of my term and you know, i'll make a decision in due time. i'm flattered, if that should be true. somehow i do not believe it is true, but i would be flattered if it were. >> senator dianne feinstein, i don't know what i'm going to be doing in 2018 either. >> good.
>> but i appreciate your being here. thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. oh, you're welcome. go giants. >> oh, go royals. >> i got it in. i got it in. >> thankses for watching "state of the union." i'm candy crowley in washington. fareed zakaria gps in washington starts right now. this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live in new york. >> i dont n't know. a bunch of gunshots. >> we will start the show today in the attack in canada's capital. it brings up key questions, are lone wolf attacks the new normal? does canada have a jihad problem?