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tv   The Situation Room  CNN  December 10, 2014 2:00pm-4:01pm PST

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able to experience history and all of a sudden you can print a life mask of the president and hold it in your hands and trace the deep furrows on the president's face and make a direct connection to what that man went through and the toll theive civil war took on him. >> it's something we can see and even touch for ourselves. >> president obama's 3d portrait will be featured in the smithsonian until the end of the year. i'm just finished with phase one of my plan to create an army of mini jakes to take over the world. that's it for me. i'm jake tapper. i'll turn you over to blitzer in "the situation room". shocking news about a bomb maker as forces put out a chilling propaganda video. the torture report is that correcting militant calls for revenge. we'll talk about it with a key figure from the bush administration. the former attorney general of the united states alberto gonzalez. excessive force, growing outrage
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at the tactics police use against minorities as one lawmaker visits the site of eric garner's death and meets his mother. he joins us live this hour and we'll talk about their emotional exchange. >> hollywood cyber attack. we have new details of the unprecedented break-in that revealed personal and embarrassing information about some of hollywood's biggest stars. sources tell cnn there is a new clue pointing directly to north korea and the kim jong-un regime. i'm wolf blitzer and you're in "the situation room." this is cnn breaking news. we're following breaking news this hour and sources telling cnn a notorious terrorist bombmaker initially thought to have been killed in a u.s. airstrike is, in fact, alive. >> that news comes hours after the release of a new isis video containing new horrors and brutality and as militant websites are now calling for retaliation in the wake of the senate report detailing cia
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interrogation of terror suspects. we're covering all of this and a lot more this hour with our correspondents and our guests including alberto gon gzalez wi george w. bush. barbara starr has more now on the breaking news just coming in. what are you hearing, barbara, about this bombmaker? >> wolf, we are talking about syria. we are talking about the khorasan group. you will recall this is a group of hard core al qaeda operatives that have emerged in syria over the last several years. the u.s. conducting several air strikes. they thought -- they thought they had possibly killed a french bomb maker that worked with them, a man named david drugeon, a highly skilled bombmaker for this group. they thought he was dead, but now two officials are telling me they are revising that assessment. they now believe drugeon, possibly wounded in a u.s. airstrike is now alive and that, of course, is a big concern.
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he has the expertise to know how to make bombs that can potentially bypass airport screening measure ps upon musan al fadhli has survived all of the coalition air strikes against the khorasan group inside syria. so the concern is after months of air strikes against this group even as the war against isis goes on inside syria these separate strikes against the khorasan group, basically, they have not taken out the leadership. wolf? >> barbara, stand by. i know you have other breaking news you're following as well. in the meantime, let's get more on the isis video, brutal video that was just released and brian todd is taking a closer look into this part of the story. what are you finding out? >> this new video is compelling to watch. an action sequence of isis fighters running for cover and taking positions and blasting away at their enemies in the syrian town of kobani.
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tonight it's leading to tough questions that we've posed to pentagon officials about why isis has not been driven out of that tactically crucial city. from a drone, the camera flies right into the battle for kobani. the fighters are heard panting, seen scrambling for a better position. this new isis propaganda video shows what the terror group claims are its fighters battling for control of the syrian border town against kurdish forces. isis recently used a british hostage john cantlie to make a false claim. the battle for kobani is coming to an end. the huge that dean are just walking out now. >> isis is looting and likely controls less than 50% of kobani. cnn's paton walsh captured these scenes. but a key question tonight, after three months of air strikes by the u.s. and its allies, why hasn't isis been
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driven completely out of kobani? >> the problem is the air strikes came too late. this allowed the islamic state to get inside the city and once you get fighters inside a city it's very hard for air power to dig them out. they can hide, even if the building doesn't provide any protection, it provides concealment. >> a pentagon official tells cnn the air strikes have impacted air strikes to move around kobani. isis tanks and other vehicles can no longer roam free. isis' propaganda campaign isn't slowing down. in another new video, isis claims what are iraqi soldiers deserting their decisions running away from isis forces. the iraqis are quote, fleeing like the cowards they are and there are new still photos published by an isis twitter account showing what it claims are isis militants on a rooftop in a self-proclaimed isis province. isis claims they're throwing a
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gay man off the rooftop and then stoning him. analysts say these images are part of the group's battle plan. >> if they don't turn out videos like this that have some sort of kick to them, they'll say maybe they're on their back heels and not as tough as they said they were going to be. >> for isis and the u.s.-led allies kobani is at the center of it all. it's become the most important battlefield on this war, both tactically and symbolically. if the allies win in kobani, it is seen as a major setback for isis and a huge turning point. it shows the u.s. can't help its allies and the coalition isn't as powerful as it seems and on the ground, isis gains control of an entire stretch of syria's border with turkey. tonight, wolf, both sides are all in in kobani. >> it's a crucial battle, indeed. brian, thank you. >> this new isis video comes as jihadi websites are lighting up with calls for retaliation against the united states, against americans around the
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world. military, diplomats and others following the release of the senate report on cia interrogation of terror suspects. let's bring back our pentagon correspondent barbara starr. how is the world reacting to this senate report? >> well, wolf, we still see u.s. forces on alert watching for any retribution and any violent attacks. thankfully that has not come and for now, at least, they don't see any signs of it. they believe if they get through the next few days, there will be a muted reaction on the street to this reports, but that is not to say that governments around the world are not reacting and one of the things we noticed ride away was the government of ir iran, the supreme leader there. i want to show you a drawing that appeared on his twitter account today as he posted a number of tweets reacting to the cia report, the supreme leader putting up a drawing, you know, that sort of reminiscent of abu ghraib and that interrogation
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scandal showing a hooded man and he goes on and says today the u.s. government is a symbol ever tyranny against humanity. even the american people are faced with cruelty. so you see some propaganda messages from iran. a number of other countries also weighing in. poland, for example, now openly acknowledging its former president saying, yes, they had a cia interrogation facility they agreed to in their country, but insisting, no, he did not know that torture was taking place there. a number of countries reacting and even scotland coming up saying it will now look at the cia report and investigate whether any of the transit of detainees through scotland under this program potentially now is a legal problem for the government there. wolf? >> i suspect the legal fallout, political fallout, diplomatic fallout and military fallout only just beginning, barbara. thank you. >> let's bring in our justice
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reporter, evan perez has more on this huge controversy in the report that has erupted. evan, the white house involvement in all of this, the allegation is the cia or at least some cia officials went rogue. you're looking into this. what are you finding out? >> that's right, wolf. this report if you read all 600 pages of it you get this impression that the cia was a rogue operation, that they misled not only the justice department, the congress, but also the white house. well, if you read between the lines you also see an episode in 2003 where the cia repeatedly goes back to the white house and tries to get some clarification to make sure they understand what's going on because at that time white house officials are going out saying we are treating prisoners humanely and they're using that term and that's getting cia officials very nervous, you see. in july of 2003 scott muller, the cia general counsel calling them and saying you guys are aware of what we're up to, right?
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they even put a halt to some of these interrogations because of this very concern. i asked ari fleischer, the former white house spokesman, he was told not to use that term. he said he doesn't remember that, but he does remember being told not to say that the geneva conventions covered the detainees. >> we are getting more information on what president obama may have known about all of this during those critical years because the suggestion in this report is that he was kept in the dark on a lot of it. >> right. >> and you know, his own memoir says he knew everything and the senate report suggests strongly that he was want aware of this. and was kept in the dark until 2006. i talked to former officials in the bush administration and they dispute that. they say that while they didn't brief him personally, they do believe that over a period of time he came to learn a lot of these details because some of his top officials knew. condy rice knew, dick cheney knew and we know that presidents don't unknow all of the details
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of these programs, wolf. >> evan perez, thanks very, very much. let's get more on what's going on. joining me, former attorney general of the united states and former white house counsel under president george w. bush, alberto gonzalez. attorney general, thanks very much for joining us. >> it's good to be back with you, wolf. >> the senate report and the dianne feinstein reports that you were informed of the tech mings from the beginning. when were you first informed about water boarding and sleep deprivation and some of the other techniques? >> i think it was some time in 2002 was when we first began having discussions about it. i think it was what did president bush know? we did not provide to the president full details until the final detail his been worked out between the justice department and the cia, and i remember talking to the president about
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this and what i told him was that we were looking at enhanced techniques and that we would work to ensure that the techniques were effective and that they were lawful and that would come from the department of justice and that was important to him that they were effective and lawful. during the course of the next few months and next few years i was at various conversations involving the president when people talked about these techniques, and i always had the impression that he had been told about techniques at a general level, perhaps or had been briefed about the techniques at a more specific level, if you read his memoir, he indicates he had several conversations about tenet and enhanced inter gagsz techniques and the level of specificity i'm just not sure about. >> because there's some suggestion in this report that the democrats and the senate intelligence committee pointed
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out he warrant fully aware of what was going on all of the way until 2006. you don't believe that, do you? >> i don't know for center, wolf. i do know that he was aware that we were engaged in enhanced interrogation techniques and the techniques were effective in gathering actual intelligence and the department of justice based upon what they were being told by the cia in terms of what they were doing was o pining that these were, in fact, consistent with the law. >> why did you and andy card, who was the white house chief of staff decide that you would withhold this information back from the president? >> again, the decision was not to provide details. >> why? why would aren't you tell the president of the united states that the cia contractors or cia officials were engaged in waterboarding, for example? >> well, because those detail his not been finalized in terms of -- there were still ongoing discussions between the cia and the justice department and
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again, of course, the president could have asked what those details were at any time and it was my impression based upon hearing various conversations over the next few months and the next few years that in fact, he had some damaknowledge. the level of knowledge i can't comment on. >> but you knew from the very beginning the specific procedures that were under way. the suggestion is that you and andy card and other white house officials and national security adviser condoleezza rice or george tenet, you were trying to protect the president. is that a fair assessment? >> well, it's always our job to protect the president and to ensure that the president has the information that he needs to have in order to effectively run this country. again, the president any time can ask for as much detailed information as possible and i can't tell you i had the information. i can't tell you the level of information that he might have, but it was certainly my impression over a period of time listening in on conversations
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that he had with others that he was familiar with the fact that we were engaged with certain techniques such as waterboarding. >> he was familiar from the very beginning of that. was that your impression? >> that's not what i said. over the period of time, listening to conversations it was certainly my impression that he was, in fact, aware of the fact of certain techniques such as waterboarding. >> i want you to stand by, alberto gonzalez who was the white house counsel and later became the attorney general. a lot more questions coming out of this report that the senate intelligence committee has released. stand by. we'll continue the conversation right after this. the bed reacts to your body. this zips off so i can wash it-yes, please. it's really cool to the touch. (vo) there's no better gift than your best night's sleep. visit your local retailer and feel the tempur-pedic
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we're back with the former white house counsel, the former attorney general of the united states under president george w. bush alberto gonzalez. attorney general, you were involved in the decisions to use in the enhanced interrogation tech feek neebings. yesterday i interviewed john rizzo, he was chief counsel at the cia who came over to the white house to brief you guy, to have conversations on what was legal, what was not legal. you were in the meetings. in the email he wrote dated july 31, 2003, he writes this -- it is clear to us from some of the run-up meetings we had with white house counsel that the white house is extremely concerned secretary of state powell would blow his stack if he were to be briefed on what's been going on. and then i had this exchange with mr. rizzo yesterday.
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listen to this. >> could you tell us who at the white house wanted to deny this information to the then secretary of state general colin powell? >> the white house counsel at the time was alberto gonzalez. >> later became the attorney general. >> all right. so did you want to keep this information in 2003 away from general powell? >> i don't know whether or not specifically i wanted to keep the information away from general powell. we obviously wanted to limit the number of people that would have -- that would be informed of the decision, only the need to know, but, you know, what we tried to do was to gather as many people as we thought appropriate within the legal circle to make it a calculation sitting down with the lawyers and the justice department in terms of deciding what, in fact, could be done under the law because what we're trying to do here, wolf, is to find a way to gather up information from these terrorists that would be
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consistent with the law. the torture statute is a criminal statute and the press is very, very clear to us, very direct to us that we would not engage in torture as an administration. was there a way to gather up information that's consistent with the law. with respect to the specific meeting, i had no recollection of the desire to keep the information specifically from general powell, but obviously, we would be concerned about keeping this information fairly close hold. >> it's one thing to keep the information in a tight circle, need to know basis. it's another thing to avoid telling the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, former national security adviser and the then secretary of state general colin powell to avoid this information and not letting him have it because in the words of this cable, he would blow his stack it he were to be briefed on what's been going on. the question is do you remember that concern? don't tell general powell about this because he'll go crazy if he hears about it.
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>> i don't remember that concern, but at an appropriate time people would be reading into what they would be considering and general powell and others would be advised about what the administration was considering and what the department of justice was saying in terms of the legality and then they would have the opportunity to present their views and the same thing happened, for example, with respect for the application of the geneva conventions and people at the appropriate time was informed and they had the opportunity to make their views known to the president of the united states. >> do you believe general powell would have been really upset if he knew the specific details? >> knowing general powell he would have expressed some concern to the president. >> so maybe that was the reason he wasn't briefed on whateve ee going on? >> people had the opportunity to present their concerns to the president at the appropriate time. >> let's talk about other details in this report because you were there and you reviewed it all. the report states that 119 known
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detainees were held. 26 of them wrongfully held and later it was determined, and some of them were subject to these enhanced interrogation techniques. 26 people wrongfully held. did you know that at the time? >> no. in fact, part of the concern i have about this report, wolf, is that it is one-sided in terms of it represents the views of the democrats on the senate intel committee which i think is very unfortunate. we have no way -- i have no way of knowing how much of this information is, in fact, true, because there is a lot of information quite honestly that surprised me. and i'm sure there is a lot of information that surprises president bush. i wonder, is this a political document? democrat senator his information of what was going on. is this a way to protect themselves? i don't know. we may have a document here that is potentially flawed and
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biased. >> what shocked you the most? i don't know if you've read all 600 pages. >> i haven't. >> what specifically shocked you? >> for example, sticking items in the rectums of individuals. that is -- that is nowhere -- that's nowhere close to what the president was aware of, or what the president may have sanctioned. certainly nowhere close to what the lawyers were aware of or what the lawyers sanctioned and i at least wasn't aware of it. i don't know how much of this report is truly accurate. i do have concerns about the report primarily because of the conclusion that, in fact, these techniques did not lead to any actual intelligence. i worked with george tenet. i worked with porter goes on. i worked with mike hayden and they're honorable men. they testified under oath, under oath, wolf that these techniques did provide actual intelligence and they were effective. >> i just want to be precise. orange, i'm sorry for interrupting. you did not know as this report shows citing cia documents, by
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the way, that at least five detainees were subjected to what was called rectal rehydration and rectal feeding? >> no. what we don't know is whether that's, in fact, accurate and that's important for viewers to understand is i don't know how much of this report is accurate. how much of it is biassed and how much of it is political. i think it's very unfortunate that we didn't have republicans sign on to this report. i think what we need to do is have an unbiased bipartisan examination of how we fight the war on terror. this document, in my judgment, does not reflect that. >> if in fact that were proven to be true, the rectal rehydration, for example, that would have been against the law and that was not as you as the white house counsel signed off on, right? >> it would be contrary to the guidance given by the department of justice. again, that's what we need to look at in terms of who provides the advice on the legality. not the white house counsel. it's the attorney general and the department of justice, the
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office of legal counsel and so certainly sticking things up the rectum would be contrary to the careful, the deliberate guidance given by the lawyers at the department of justice because we were under clear directives from the president of the united states. we're not going to engage in conduct that would violate this very narrow criminal statute against torture. >> why would waterboarding be legal, not torture, from your definition, but rectal rehydration, that would be prohibited? what's the difference, from your perspective? >> well, i don't know all the specifics about rectal rehydration so i can't comment on that. with respect to water boarding and listen, i'm not going to try to talk to talk to anybody that that in fact is not torture if you believe, you believe it is. >> do you believe it is? >> here's what i believe is that the bush administration, the lawyers at the department of justice issued a series of opinion, not just one or two,
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but up to five major legal opinions examining certain techniques and o pining that if conducted a certain way, they would not violate the criminal statute of torture. it would involve high-level decision making that in fact this person had information about a pending attack. it would involve the psychological examination, and it would evolve a medical doctor present at the procedure. it would involve trained interrogators and so the various precautionary steps put in place required by the department of justice to ensure the safety of the individual as these techniques were being administered. >> whether or not that happened here, i don't know. the report is troubling because it would be inconsistent with what the department of justice and we go back to the initial question, is the information in the report accurate? i can't tell you that it is and that's what i'm wred about with
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respect to the report that is supported solely by the democrats on the senate intel committee. >> if the information is accurate then obviously you were stunned by some of this information and we'll continue obviously to check that, before i let you go, quick question. when i interviewed the former cia counsel john rizzo yesterday, he told me he's afraid to travel outside the united states right now. he doesn't want to go to spain, italy, or france. he's afraid he could be arrested for alleged war crimes. here is the question to you. are you afraid to travel to those countries? >> do i have concerns. i just got back a few days ago from israel spending a week there, but there are countries i would have concerns about and i think that's very unfortunate that we have lawyers acting in good faith in terms of trying to apply the law so that the administration does not engage in conduct that violates that law, but we have different systems in european countries where you have independent
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magistrates and so that would be a concern that i would have to look at as would other members of the administration, no matter their role in what happened here. >> we're talking about nato allies and we're not talking about going to iran or north korea or countries like that. we're talking about belgium, france or spain or italy. those are major nato allies of the united states and what i hear you saying is at least for now you're reluctant to visit those countries. >> i'm hopeful that as the truth comes out people will understand that what the lawyers did here was their job in terms of trying to provide the appropriate guidance. whether or not that guidance was followed, i think that remains to be seen and i don't think that question is answered by this report? >> alberto gonzalez, the former attorney general of the united states. thanks very much. you were very candid in all your responses. we appreciate it very much. >> thank you, wolf. >> up next, the situation room, the u.s. congressman reacts to his first very emotional visit to the memorial setup for eric
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garner, the man who died after being put in a choke hold by new york police. we are also learning on a separate story, new details about a possible link between north korea and a devastating computer break-in. more details coming in to the situation room. new cadillac. ♪ brand ♪ my baby drove up in a brand new cadillac. ♪ ♪ look here, daddy, i'm never coming back... ♪ discover the new spirit of cadillac and the best offers of the season. lease this 2015 standard collection ats for around $329 a month. in the country. we operate just like a city, and that takes a lot of energy. we use natural gas throughout the airport - for heating the entire terminal, generating electricity on-site, and fueling hundreds of vehicles.
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including harvard staged what are called die-ins. we're watching the other protests that are happening. this week the new york congressman hakim jefferies made his first visit to a makeshift memorial set up at the site where the police tackled eric garner on new york's staten island. the congressman is joining us now, we've seen the video of eric garner and the sidewalk. you were there, tell us what it was like when you went to that sidewalk and saw that location because i know it was pretty emotional for you. >> good evening, wolf and thank you for having me on. it was certainly an emotional and sol imvisit. it was a tragedy that occurred at that location. eric garner, obviously did not deserve to die and there was nothing we could do to bring him back to liefr and as a result of that tragedy, a mother has lost a son, a mother has lost a son,
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children have lost a father. you felt the reality of what took place on that street upon visiting it and talking to some of the people from staten island who are from that neighborhood who experience different forms from police aggressive engagement each and every day and who really have taken to heart what took place at that site as well as the need for a systematic and dramatic reform. when you were there, by chance, eric garner's mother showed up? is that what happened? >> as i was standing there preparing to leave, mrs. carr who i've spent a lot of time with over the last several months including here in washington, d.c., during the congressional black caucus foundation weekend where we found mothers of excessive force victims all across the country to washington, but just by happenstance she showed up, and i got the opportunity to share some quiet moments with her to talk about the struggle to move
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forward and make sure that eric garner gets justice in his case and more importantly or equally importantly that his death was not in vain. i want you to look at this, we'll put it up, some troubling video of a protester punching an nypd officer in the head last week. the protest in new york following the grand jury decision were praised, but being peaceful and this is anything, but peaceful, are you worried about what might happen if the police officer and daniel pantaleo isn't penalized for his role in eric garner's death? there are outside agitators whose reckless behavior such as what we just witnessed take away from the overwhelming number of americans who have peacefully demonstrated and expressed their outrage at the lack of accountability at the death of eric garner. it's important to point out that what we've seen across the country is americans who are black, who are white, who are
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latino, asian and democrats and presumably republicans and people across the ideological spectrum have come to the conclusion that something is wrong. when you can see on video an individual who is killed by an unauthorized choke hold cries out for his life and says i can't breathe 11 times and none of the officers who were on the scene do anything about it. so we will continue to encourage people to peacefully express their outrage, their hurt, their objection to what has taken place. that is the most productive way for us to achieve change. >> congressman, thanks for joining us. >> thanks so much, wolf. coming up in "the situation room," theft, extortion, compromising details leak interested some of the biggest movie stars and north korea behind a devastating computer break-in. we have new details from sources inside this investigation and the growing and potentially deadly threat that drones pose
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to airline travelers. is the u.s. doing enough to keep travelers safe? i'd rather do anything else than sit at a dealership.
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welcome to the future of car-buying. we're learning new details and they're alarming as what could rank as one of the worst-ever computer attacks here in the united states. investigators have uncovered one clue that may link the attack to north korea. let's bring in our justice correspondent pamela brown. you are getting new information, pamela. >> that's right, wolf.
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sour sources with first hand knowledge into the hacking attack on sony pictures computers is devastating in size and scope and it has caught the attention of government officials at the highest levels. >> while it's still unclear if it was north korea, an anarchist group or even a former employee with a grudge that breached sony's computers. what is clear is that the infiltration is deep and damaging. a group known as the guardians of peace is claiming responsibility for breaking into the studio's computers, leaking personal information of celebrities as well as scathing email exchanges between producers and directors. some even bad-mouthinged a-list actors. in one exchange an oscar winning producer calls angelina jolie minimally talented and a spoiled brat. >> i think it's a very scary trend and it's something that organizations which have sensitive information have to be very concerned about. >> the document also revealed the social security numbers of more than 47,000 people
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including celebrities conan o'brien, rebel wilson and sylvester stallone, as well as the aliases stars used to check into hotels and do business. tom hanks apparently goes by the name johnny madrid. jessica alba as cash money and sarah michelle gellar as neely o'hara. >> kim jong-un wants to do an interview? >> it shows actor seth roke an raked in nearly $2 million more than james frank owe, a plot about killing the north korean leader kim jong-un. leading to speculation north korea may have been involved. while north korea has denied involvement, it has called the film an act of terrorism and a leak a righteous deed. the code word used in the attack was written in korean and was used in previous attacks against south korea. >> it's important to realize depending how sophisticated your
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adversary is, they maying using known attacks from a certain language code base in order to throw your attribution thoughts off. a and and telling them pay the damage or sony pictures would be bombarded as a whole. fbi director james comey saying his agency is not yet at the point to identify who is behind the attack, neither confirming nor denying it is north korea, wolf. >> hold on for a moment, tom fuentes, former assistant director of the fbi, take us inside the fbi. they're investigating this attack on sony pictures. there are a number of and finding that this hack was very sophisticated and probably
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state-sponsored at that level and none of the security measures that are out there now that normally identify unlaufrl intrueings worked in this case or would have prevented it if they had been employed do they think north korea has that capability? >> yes. they attalaunched arc tacks on u.s. >> china i understand russia, but north korea. >> how long is this investigation going to take? the reason this one is scarier than normal for them is it involves data destruction, and that means going into the network. and in this case, where the
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extortion is on sony to meet the demands of the hackers, it's pretty serious and they don't know what other companies could face this kind of extortion in the future. >> all right, tom fuentes, thanks very much. pamela brown, thanks to you, as well. we'll stay on top of this story. up next, a new warning that the united states is falling behind in keeping airliners and helicopters safe from an unintended menace, the threat of collisions with drones. coming up at the top of the hour, the former cia director michael hayden standing by to join us live right here in "the situation room." he's using words like offensive and simplistic to blast the new senate report on the agency's interrogation tactics. hello... i'm an idaho potato farmer and our big idaho potato truck is still missing. so my buddy here is going to help me find it. here we go. woo who, woah, woah, woah. it's out there somewhere spreading the word about americas favorite potatoes: heart healthy idaho potatoes
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i was thinking about htaking this speed test from comcast business. oh yeah? if they can't give us faster internet or save us money, they'll give us 150 bucks. sounds like a win win. guys! faster internet? i have never been on the internet and i am doing pretty well. does he even work here?
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don't listen to the naysayer. take the comcast business speed test. get faster speeds or more savings, or we'll give you $150. comcast business. built for business. dozens of near collisions, potential disasters in just the last few months. now there are growing calls for action as drone aircraft are increasingly coming frightenly close to passenger planes. renee marsh is here in "the situation room." it is pretty frightening. >> it is. september 15 is the deadline given to the faa to come up with rules to safely integrate drones into the air space, but the agency will likely miss that deadline. and without strong regulations,
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drones sharing the skies with passenger planes could be a disaster in the making. this is the nightmare. a drone and passenger jet on a collision course. this video taken by a german military drone over afghanistan. it narrowly misses a passenger plane, but the drone crashes. in the u.s., from police helicopters -- >> we had a drone come within 50 feet of us. >> reporter: to passenger planes. >> we saw a drone. >> reporter: close calls are becoming disturbingly frequent. since july, the faa received more than two dozen reports of drones nearly hitting planes. on capitol hill, lawmakers say rules to integrate into the air space aren't coming fast enough.
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>> road builders in germany today are enjoying economic benefits from uas because safety regulators there have found ways to permit such flights. i can't help but wonder that if the germans, the french and canadians do some of these things today, why can't we also be doing them? >> we all agree that project is taking too long. >> reporter: with the drone industry booming, preventing crashes is becoming even more critical. >> i've got a quad copter on my christmas least. we've got a failure to regulate. >> reporter: to get an idea what a drone could do to a plane, look at what birds have done, breaking wind shields and destroying engines. a flock of birds forced this jet to land on the hudson river.
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one possibility, a drone smashes into the wing of a plane where fuel is stored, causing an explosion. >> it could have potential catastrophic repercussions. >> reporter: drones are not allowed to fly commercially without approval. hobbyists can fly small drones like this one but have to stay below 400 feet and away from airports. the problem is, people, we're talking about the hobbyists, are not following the rules in some cases. just one statistic for you, wolf, they're estimating in the next five years, 7500 drones will be in the skies. >> potentially dangerous. thanks, renee. breaking news. the terrorist explosives genius thought to have been killed is now believed to have survived. we'll talk about that and the fallout from the cia senate
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happening now, breaking news. dead or alive? u.s. officials have new information about the fate of a terrorist bombmaker targeted in a u.s. air strike. and general michael hayden is fuming after a senate report accusing him of misleading the nation about brutal interrogation tactics. he's joining us live this hour. plus this -- >> i can't breathe! i can't breathe! >> a police officer punched a protester, is accused of assault. the video goes viral as peaceful pro-festers try to keep their message alive. brutality exposed. north korean defectors share new horror stories about kim jong-un's regime. we went to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room."
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>> this is cnn breaking news. >> we've got the breaking news tonight on terror threats to the united states. new evidence coming into "the situation room" that a top bombmaker for the terrorist group khorasan may not be dead after all, this after some extremists are calling for retaliation against the united states. they're posting online rants detailed in a new senate committ committee. there's growing backlash in the united states and indeed around the world. we have our correspondents, our newsmakers, all standing by with new information. but first, let's go to our pentagon correspondent barbara starr. what are you learning about this top khorasan bombmaker? >> reporter: wolf, the u.s. has been bombing them for months. they thought their top
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bombmaker, they had gotten him. now today u.s. officials tell me there's every reason to believe that he did not die in a previous air strike. he is the master bombmaker for khorasan. this is someone that knows how to make bombs that can potentially get past airport security. they're trying to track him and other khorasan leaders down. wolf? >> you're also learning more about the fallout from the senate intelligence committee report on the cia's interrogation terror suspects, right? >> yeah, wolf. let's tell everybody right now that tomorrow will be a very interesting day and to keep watch. cia director john brennan will hold what is an unprecedented press conference at cia head quarters to meet with reporters and answer their questions. reporters will go there and listen to what he has to say,
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even as the world continues to read this report and see what the cia did. today, the impact of the torture report spread even as key allies are speaking out. >> torture is wrong. torture is always wrong. >> reporter: afghanistan's new president, furious at the cia report, calling it shocking. >> translator: this is really painful. the report indicates that some of our countrymen who were tortured have been totally innocent. >> reporter: condemnation from around the globe, even as the white house insists making the secret activities public was the right thing to do. >> the president did decide that the benefit of releasing this report and taking the significant step to rebuild our moral authority was necessary. >> reporter: military and intelligence officials continue
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monitoring for anany violent reaction. the concern, a demonstration could break out such as those across the muslim world in 2012, after a u.s. film mocked the prophet muhammad. marines remain ready to move if u.s. embassies are threatened. officials insist they are always ready. >> i think that i have never seen security taken as seriously as it has been in the last two years. >> reporter: a monitoring group has found some jihadi groups calling for retaliation against u.s. personnel involved in the torture. human rights groups calculate some 50 governments around the world helped the cia, including thailand, egypt and morocco. several years ago, syria tortured a detainee after the cia helped engineer sending him there. and the libyans also shared information on tortured detainees. countries who helped the cia now
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in a political cross hair. the former polish president says he knew the cia had a secret interrogation site in poland but insists he knew nothing of the torture. >> translator: the americans, by publishing this report, in large part lose their allied abilities. in a new situation, every country will be wondering to what extent the u.s. can be trusted. >> reporter: now, even iran weighing in on all of this, the supreme leader posting a number of tweets, starting with this drawing he posted, reminisce sent of a prisoner at abu ghraib, going on to say in one of his tweets that the u.s. government is a symbol of tyranny against humanity. so the iranian government, the supreme leader, even one of the world leaders weighing in on
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this situation. tomorrow, we'll hear more from the cia about what happened and their view about all of it. wolf? >> and it underscores if the former polish president, if he's so upset about what happened, and he was very close to the bush administration when he was president of poland. obviously it's a serious, serious dilemma for close u.s. allies around the world. barbara, thank you very much. we're going to have live coverage of the cia director john brennan's news conference at cia headquarters in langley, virginia. a top u.n. official says there should be no statute of limitations or immunity for prosecution for bush era officials responsible for any torture that may have occurred. let's go to evan perez with new information and a new statement. i take it you've just received it from the justice department? >> that's right, wolf. the big concern has been whether or not officials from the bush administration and cia could
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face prosecution as a result of the details that were released in this report. you heard from a former bush administration attorney general robert gonzalez there's some countries he doesn't travel to. the big concern is, would some of our own allies prosecute these people? and so we have a statement from the justice department, what would happen if they got such a request? here's the statement, in the event of an action by a foreign court prosecuting authority against u.s. government officials, the u.s., through the temperatures of justice and state, could raise appropriate legal defenses to prevent unwarranted prosecution of u.s. officials. wolf, the question is, what would happen if they sent an arrest warrant to the united states and what would the justice department do? i'm told by sources that the u.s. would not enforce that arrest warrant, which obviously would be a problem with some of our allies. wolf? >> it certainly would be. and you did hear the former attorney general of the united states here in "the situation
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room" in the last hour say, he's reluctant to travel to several european countries on a fear some magistrate over there could arrest him on allegations of war crimes because he was involved in authorizing these enhanced interrogation techniques. c evan, thank you very much. we're standing by. we'll be speaking with michael hayden, the former cia director. he's got very strong views on this report. that's coming up. stand by for that. let's bring in bob beir, jeffrey toobin and paul crookshank. jeffrey, you heard a lot about a disagreement on this crucial question whether laws were broken. where do you see this situation
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unfolding, whether u.s. officials, cia officials, government contractors, actually potentially broke the law? because a lot of the sorted details are contained in this senate intelligence committee report. >> i think as far as i can tell from the report that virtually all of them broke the law. torture is illegal in the united states, it's illegal under international law and united states government officials authorized it and conducted it. but i don't see any way that anyone is going to be prosecuted at this late date. the american government clearly is not going to do it. president obama has made that clear. and this idea of arrest warrants in europe, you know, i can understand why these officials are cautious. but i don't think there's a realistic chance that anyone is going to be prosecuted. so did they break the law? as far as i can tell, absolutely, yes. will there be any criminal consequences? absolutely not. >> have you researched whether there are any statute of
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limitations to prevent the justice department from going after any of these officials? >> all these crimes do have statute of limitations, but they vary from five to ten years. we are approaching that moment. i just don't see any momentum, any interest in the justice department to pursue bush administration officials. the president has been very clear about this from the beginning, that the chapter has closed. this is an appropriate subject for investigation, for disclosure, for coming clean. but as for trying to put anyone in jail, that's just not going to happen. >> paul, could the details released in this 500 page report create a higher risk for terrorist attacks against the united states, whether on american soil or against americans around the world? >> wolf, groups like isis and al qaeda are going to try to exploit this for recruitment purposes, but there's been a pretty muted reaction in the middle east so far. a muted reaction on jihadi
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websites and social media. there have been a few calls for retaliatory attacks, but for a lot of these jihadi types, it's old news and they already have a dark view of the united states. many of them think the united states is in a war to exterminate islam. i don't think it's going to have an impact like the cartoons controversy, the film released just before the benghazi attacks and reports of description of the koran. those were hot button issues which touched on religious sensitivities. i don't think we're going to see that type of reaction this time around. >> when the department of homeland security, jay john, or the department of defense chuck
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hagel, the defense secretary, when they issue these bulletins to u.s. military personnel, to all local enforcement around the united states to go on a higher state of alert, is this just -- why would they do this if they're really not that worried about retaliation for the release, the information released in this report? >> wolf, it's a precaution. these jihadi groups are unpredictable. we don't want to see another benghazi attack on a u.s. facility. they want to make upmost preparations for anything like that. it's pretty standard. but i agree with paul, they don't really care. their worst conflict going on for the jihadi, iraq when we sided with iran. i think this is going to pass without too much happening. but you can't predict it, and that's why homeland security and the fbi and the department of defense have issued these warnings. >> jeffrey, did you understand
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why the senate intelligence committee refused to interview anyone, any of these officials from the cia directly in preparation of this lengthy report? >> it's certainly a gap in the report. there's only a certain amount that you can get just from documents. i think there was the question of whether there would be cooperation there, and i guess given the magnitude of the ju undertaking, it took six years just with the documents. but there's no question if you are doing a real criminal or civil investigation, the usual practice is to use documents, but then of course, also interview the witnesses. >> the argument that dianne feinstein made on this program yesterday was that the justice department had told the senate intelligence committee you can't interview these people because potentially they could be under criminal investigation. what do you make of that argument? >> that strikes me as a pretty
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weak argument, especially since the administration has been very clear from almost the day that barack obama took office, that he was not going to be prosecuting these people. yes, it's true, the statute of limitations has not run, there is certain potential of criminal liability. but that is not the posture of a government agency, the justice department, that wanted the senate intelligence agency to get to the bottom of this. they didn't want to do it, and the justice department didn't want this material, these interviews to take place, so they didn't take place. so it certainly left this report with a weakness, but through no fault of the senate intelligence committee. >> i want to take a quick break, but one quick question, the report does state of the 119 known detanes who had these techniques used on them, 26 were
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wrongly held. the question was, was that legal, illegal? could those folks who went after these detainees, 26 wrongfully held, would they be charged? >> well, could they? i suppose if the government were to start today a criminal investigation, that possibility will exist. but there is no criminal investigation. this justice department has made clear there's not going to be a criminal investigate shun. so there's just not going to be any prosecutions. if you want to do a law school hypothetical whether it's possible, i suppose it's possible but it's just not going to happen. >> i want you all to stand by. we're going to be speaking with general michael hayden, the former cia director. he's going to be joining us in a little while. much more of the breaking news right after this.
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we're back with the cnn security analyst bob beir, jeffrey toobin and paul crookshank. paul, just weigh in. you've been monitoring reaction from around the world. these terrorists, the ones that hate the united states, they don't snead another excuse, they're going to go after the united states, but will this report inspire others to align themselves with isis, al qaeda, el shabab, some of these other terrorist groups? >> i don't think, wolf, that's necessarily the case. these jihadi types already have plenty of grievances against the united states. they believe the united states is engaged in a war on islam.
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many of their fellow officers have been killed in u.s. missile strikes and u.s. drone strikes, whether that's in somalia or yemen or syria or iraq. and so they already have plenty of reasons to go after the united states. isis is already encouraged lone wolves in the united states to try and launch attacks. so i don't think this is significantly going to increase the potential of a terrorist attack here, wolf. >> you won't be surprised that the former vice president dick cheney is suggesting that this report, the senate report that senator dianne feinstein released yesterday, doesn't represent the truth. and i guess he was intimately involved in all these details. your reaction? >> i think it does represent the truth, or at least a piece of it. what worries me is the europeans. i think they're perfectly
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capable to bring indictments against george tenet, even john brennan, who was executive director at the time this started. european courts have indicted almost a dozen cia officers in milan and that was in cooperation with the italian government. so the polls and everybody else who cooperated with the cia, very reluctant in the future to help. it's going to damage liaison relations a and this has all been put out in public and it's going to damage us. the quicker we get to the end of this, the better. >> stand by. i want all of you to stand by. joining us now is the former director of the cia, general michael hayden. thank you very much for coming. you hate this report. >> yes, indeed. >> you hate it because? >> because it's a prosecutorial screen rather than an objective look at the cia detention program. i understand the need for people in a democracy to understand
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what the government does on their behalf. i'm afraid that's not the document. >> they refer to all these cia documents made available to the committee in these 500 pages. those are the ones that have dn been declassified or redacted. they say the details are even worse, even more damning than what's included in this document. >> well, wolf, you're a correspondent. you're a journalist. you seek truth like we did in the intelligence community. if you had a chance to talk to people or rummage through their e-mails, which would you do? or maybe both. this report was based upon a four-year fishing expedition amongst 6 million pages of cia documents. and call me crazy, wolf. i think they began with a conclusion and worked backward into that sea of documents to create a case for these
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conclusions. >> here's one of the documents. cia officer ordered that a man be shackled to the wall of his cell in a position that required the detainee to rest on the bare concrete floor. he was wearing only a sweatshirt. the next day the guards found him dead. he likely died from hypothermia, in part from having been forced to sit on the bare concrete floor without pants. that sounds like torture. >> well, first of all, it was not part of the high value detainee program. it happened in afghanistan at a site run by an inexperienced cia officer. shame on us. we put this young man in a position for which we had not prepared him. it was reported to the justice department. in fact, the high value detainee interrogation program that this report says it is telling you about, it is a product of how cia mishandled some of these early battlefield detentions in
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afghanistan. in short, wolf, the program i went down to explain to the congress in 2006 and 2007 was the program we put in place because of mistakes like the one here. >> let's talk about some of the other pretty brutal things that came out of this report. it states this -- we all knew, by the way, about the waterboarding, the sleep deprivation. but it says this, at least five detainees were subjected to rectal rehydration or feeding. there's one record of a man receiving rectal fluid resuscitation for partially refusing liquids. is that legal? is that torture? >> no, it's a medical procedure is what it is. wolf, i'm learning about this somewhat too, because as you know, almost all of this took place before i became director. but i have learned that in some instances, one way that you can get nourishment into a person is
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through this procedure as opposed to intervenous feeding which involves needles and other somethings. let's not forget, as we speak, the current government of the united states is using force feeding on detainees at guantanamo who also are refusing to eat. >> is that rectal? >> no, it's not. and i'm not prepared to tell you why one method was chosen over another at some point in the past. i would think, though, before making that kind of accusation, somebody may have wanted to talk to someone and get their explanation as to why and when and for what purpose it was done. >> senator feinstein told me yesterday they would have been happy to interview cia officials but the justice department told them you can't interview them because they could potentially be subject to criminal investigations. >> gee, that's odd, because my
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successor at the central intelligence agency told senator feinstein and the cia workforce that because of the investigation, he could not compel anyone to appear before the senate committee. that they were free to do so. i might add, wolf, that investigation ended 2 1/2 years ago. let me add a further point, john rizzo voluntarily appeared before the house intelligence committee to answer questions about the destruction of videotapes which was part of the investigation that senator feinstein is claiming made it impossible to talk to any human beings. i wasn't subject to that, none of us. >> if they would have called you, we want you to testify, you would have said? >> well, i would have to think about it, wolf. because if it was a star chamber, i would have to think about it long and hard. if i thought it was a legitimate investigation, which could have been evidence by calling people in to talk, then i might have
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gone to talk. >> let me play a little clip. this is what she told me, she was very blistering when it came to the cia. you used to be the director of the cia. listen to this. >> the cia spent $40 million to prevent us from issuing this report. that is fact. we did not spend the money. we used our staff to do this report. they went into our computers illegally to take out information. not once, not twice, but three times. which i believe is a separation of powers violation. >> sounds like potential crimes there. your reaction? >> well, my reaction is, cia spent $40 million to stop this report? i'm sorry, wolf, i'm just -- i'm plank on that one. -- blank on that one. i have no idea what that means. i know it's been reported in the
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press that this investigation, this is the product, cost $40 million over four years, and was done not just by senate staff by contractors hired for this very purpose. since we're trying to figure out who shot john here, i want to snow what happened to the senate sergeant at arms investigation that was launched to find out how this document, the so-called panetta report, ended up on the sissy side of the firewall when it was not one of the documents the cia intent intended to shar. what happened to that investigation? >> what about this allegation that the cia was illegally searching for documents, in her words, almost effectively breaking the law, separation of powers violation if >> i'll let the current director answer that question, because i haven't been charge of the cia in six years. >> what stunned you the most in read thing document? i spoke with alberto gonzales,
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he was the white house counsel, he authorized it with john rizzo. he says when he saw some of the stuff in here, he was stunned by some of the stuff that was going on that he didn't know about. he knew about the waterboarding, the sleep deprivation, but not some of the other torture. >> the one you focused on was the rectal rehydration. he didn't know it was going on because it was not an interrogation technique. what stunned me about the report most was the fact that it was written in the way it was written. it is an unrelenting prosecutorial document with no since of emilration in the language. >> you became the cia director in 2006 and most of this stuff happened before you were director. >> there were a total of 100
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prisoners. in my mind, there were 99, 97 were captured and held before i got there. let the record show, and i think this is important, wolf. i emptied the black sites in the summer of 2006 and i'm the one who insisted within the administration, which the strong support of president bush, to go to the other political branch, the congress in the fall of 2006, and explain this program in its entirety to them, because before it had only been limited to the gang of four or the gang of eight. >> did you close those black sites in various colors -- >> no, no. and we said this publicly at the time. the day president bush gave that speech in the east room and announced we had just brought 14 al qaeda leaders to guantanamo, when i gave the press background
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that day, i said we are not closing the sites. this program continues. it continues under different conditions. the number of detainees now is zero. this could be detainees in the future. and in fact, wolf, quite different from the highly charged secretiveness early in the program, we had two detainees while i was director, and we announced them both as they moved out of the black so it and we pushed them on to guantanamo. >> was there anything illegal going on based on what we know as a result of this report? >> i'm sorry, the -- >> anything illegal that u.s. officials, whether cia officials, contractors, military personnel, what was illegal as far as you could tell? >> sure. there were several things that were illegal. particularly early in the program that the agency self-reported and were investigated not once but twice by u.s. attorneys. an awful lot of the things going on as news here were things that the agency knew about already
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and already reported to the department of justice. >> did you hold back sharing some of these details with president bush because he really shouldn't know what was going on to try to protect him if >> no, not really. what we're doing, wolf, we were down shifting from a technique to a regime which we had about six techniques. one of the questions the president is going to have to answer -- one he is going to have to ask and i answer, are these six enough? mr. president, let me tell you what they are and why we think this will be good enough going forward. so we had that conversation. >> the osama bin laden capture and killing of bin laden, this report, dianne feinstein, she says that the torture, the interrogation, the severe tactics, really played no role in the capture of bin laden, and that officials at the cia routinely regularly resulted in
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fabricated information. >> so you've got a two-part question. did anything in this program lead to abbottabad and the death of osama bin laden? i'm not going to answer that. what i'm going to suggest is have the senator talk to leon panetta, who had operational control of the forces. he said it did. so i'll just leave it there. he's the one that said this was one of the sources of information that led it to abbottabad. there is no denying it is what my successor said. >> did the torture techniques result in fabricated information that put u.s. officials on the wrong track? >> it resulted in fabricated information. i don't know if it put us on the wrong track. i said at the time in my public speeches the most powerful tool we had in dealing with detainees is not the enhanced
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interrogation techniques. the most powerful tool we had, bar none, was our knowledge. we knew how to bump up the things they were telling us with the universe of information we were creating. a lot of it from other detain detainees. so when someone told you something, wolf, they didn't become flag waving american citizens after they went through this program. they gave us some information more freely. there were other pieces of information that they talked about. one of the core indicators that we were on the right path with the courier was the fact that khalid shaikh mohammed clammed up in a way that was obvious to us he was hiding important information. >> khalid shaikh mohammed, he was water boarded 180 times? >> when the red cross asked him how many times he was water boarded, he said five.
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the 180 times is pours of the water, about six seconds each. if you want to consider each of those an independent waterboarding, then each pitch in a baseball game is a separate game. >> is waterboarding torture if >> according to three of the last four attorneys general of the united states, it's not. >> so if you had to do it over again, you would still water board? >> i don't know. and i thank god i didn't have to make that decision, other people did. and there are other people who ought to be thanking god they don't have to make the decision either. >> if americans were captured and waterboarding, would that be okay? >> this all depends on the circumstances at the time. if that particular american had been responsible for the death of 3,000 innocent people, i may have a rather large view of what was permissible. >> are american officials like yourself, and we spoke to john
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rizzo yesterday, alberto gonzales, the former attorney general, are they in danger now if they leave the united states and go to friendly countries, whether belgium, spain, italy, france, where a magistrate could arrest them for war crimes, if you will? >> listen, i listened to bob's comment earlier. it certainly increases the odds that that might happen to former u.s. officials. so i've got a question for you and maybe for the audience, wolf. is that an intended or unintended consequence of the report? the increased risk to american officials traveling overseas to countries who claim universal jurisdiction, was that an intended or unintended consequence. >> are you saying that the senate intelligence committee, the democrats at least, dianne feinstein wants these people like alberto gonzales or john rizzo not to travel around the world? >> if i wanted to say that, i would have said that.
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what i asked you, is it an intended or unintended consequence? >> so you think it was unintended -- >> no, i'm not saying either one. >> but they didn't want to travel outside the united states over been this report was released because of all the suspicion that they signed off on the waterboarding. >> again, i ask you, will this report make this more or less likely? i think bob has it right, it's more likely. was that one of the intended outcomes or was it just a necessary by product? >> are you comfortable with everything the cia did going back to 9/11 is >> of course not. >> what were the blunders? >> putting an electric drill next to the ear of a detainee. the death of an individual at the salt pit. there are specific circumstances around each of those and we can talk about them at length if you like. but there are a lot of things i wish didn't happen.
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fundamentally, wolf, at the end of the day, i can't in my heart of hearts wish that we didn't have to do this. but we did have a duty. >> and you believe that lives were saved as a result of this? >> look, anybody who has touched this program of either political party, under either administration, believes that to be true. >> i do know, because i spoke with leon panetta, and he said he believes these enhanced interrogation techniques, including other things, did play a role in the killing of osama bin laden. >> i respect people who -- this report is, you lied, you misled, you overstepped, and you didn't get anything out of it. that's actually fact, not ethical view. we could use a very well
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balanced, historically accurate account of what happened here. this just isn't that. >> so your bottom line message to dianne feinstein is? >> my bottom line message to your viewers, before you rush to judgment, don't read just this report, but read the cia rebuttal and the republican minority report, as well. so that you have perhaps a broader range of information before you decide. >> general michael hayden, thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you. >> former cia director, former head of the national security agency. appreciate it very much. just ahead, a protester against police brutality throws a punch at a police officer. we'll have reaction. the video has now gone viral. turn the trips you have to take, into one you'll never forget. earn triple points when you book with the expedia app. expedia plus rewards. we asked people a question
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we're watching a new protest against police brutality. demonstrators have been holding a so-called die-in outside orlando, florida. a video has now surfaced online, showing a demonstrator, look at this, punching a new york city police officer. he's been arrested on assault charges and he's reportedly been linked to another incident where an officer was punched. joining us, don lemon, jeffrey toobin, tom fuentes, and the community activist, john gaskin. tom, let me start with you. this police officer took a punch right in the head. this could have gooden a whole lot uglier. how do the police, and you used to be a cop on the street, how do you deal with a situation like this, in a very emotionally tense setting already?
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>> it just shows you that the police are trying to have a kinder, gentler presence out there. he's not wearing a helmet or mask or protective gear because it offends so many people and he gets punched in the face. we're asking our police officers to go out there and sacrifice themselves so that it looks like they're being nice guys. >> unfortunately, this is a small, tiny minority of these protesters have gotten violent like that. don, i want to bring you into this conversation. there's some grieving mothers out there who have lost their sons at the hands of police officers. they spoke out here today in the nation's capital. >> people are tired, they're sick and tired of the genocide against our young men. they're sick and tired of not having the value of life, and
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our young people are sick and tired of not having hope. >> don, i know you're going to speak to several of these mothers later tonight on cnn at 10:00 p.m. it's obviously very emotional and very powerful. >> there's nothing like a mother's grief. you could feel it and hear it in her voice. that is pain. i don't know what that pain is like, but when i sat down with three of the mothers during the ferguson incident, and during the michael brown incident, i sat down with three of them and your heart just breaks. i hear from moms that the worst pain that you can experience is the loss of a child. no child should go before parent. that's what you're hearing in her voice. we're going to speak to eight of the nine mothers that will join us tonight on cnn. wolf, it's just awful regardless of the circumstances. it's just awful to have to experience that. >> you can't imagine anything more painful than a mother losing a son in situations like this. we'll be watching your program later tonight. jeffrey, you remember a lot of
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our viewers with the alleged police brutality that we've seen, including that traffic stop in indiana that terrorized a family. that family now suing. is this the new normal? are we going to see violent conversations between police and civilians and lawsuits that emerge? >> well, this has been normal for a long time. there have been lawsuits against the police in many of these celebrated cases. in fact, the lawsuits, the civil lawsuits have generally been a lot more successful than criminal prosecutions. what usually happens in these notorious cases is that there's a lawsuit, there's some pretrial fencing, and ultimately the municipality pays, often a substantial amount of money in a settlement. certainly that's what's happened here in new york with these situations. it's a major, major expense for
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these municipalities. the criminal cases, as we keep discussing, often don't go very far. but certainly civil cases have been around for quite some time. >> john gaskin, a lot of us will remember that montgomery busboy cot that's lasted what, 381 days. it's now been 123 days since michael brown was shot. a week since the eric garner grand jury decision was released. what's the mood out there? you ore a community activist. are these protests going to continue? is it far from over or is it ending pretty soon? >> they're actually picking up with this week there are a number of civil disobedience actions that have been planned. there are a lot of teach-ins taking place in new york and across the country, especially in the bay area of california. this movement, compared to the
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montgomery bus boycott is moving in a quicker direction because of social media and because of the role that the media is playing. i believe the protests and the direct actions will continue to pick up, especially as we go into the weekend. >> and so as we see in the coming weeks and days, i believe they will pick up and become more significant and they'll obviously continue to receive more attention via social media. this movement, you know, started in ferguson. many people viewed it as just a moment and it appears that it has turned truly into a movement, if you take a look at the protesters, if you take a look at the people in the street. people have their children out there. they are black, white, hispanic, asian. the diversity of this movement is amazing and it is very encouraging. >> jeffrey, speaking of ferguson, we've now learned that
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that joint federal-county two-hour interview conducted days after the shooting of michael brown, that the friend, dorian johnson on the street with michael brown, that interview wasn't released even though the st. louis county prosecutor promised all of the evident put before the evident would be made public. do we know why that interview has been held up? >> you know, i don't know. i can speculate but i don't think that is a healthy thing to do. certainly dorian johnson's story was before the grand jury and he testified before the grand jury but his interview was not before the grand jury. so the short answer is i don't know why it hasn't been released. i don't know why it wasn't before the grand jury. but his story, which was one of the most important eyewitness testimonial though highly controversial and some said not
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accura accurate, but his story was before the grand jury. >> thank you very much all of you. we'll see you at 10:00 p.m. eastern later tonight, looking forward to the interview with the eight months, tom fuentez and john gaskin, thank you very much. much more news coming up right after this. ♪ [ male announcer ] you wouldn't ignore signs of damage in your home. are you sure you're not ignoring them in your body? even if you're treating your crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis, an occasional flare may be a sign of damaging inflammation.
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drama. >> that is right. it is a massive 1$1.1 trillion bill, we would kill too much trees to print it. but it is the kind of bill everybody talks about because of all of the hidden surprised. >> tucked inside the 1,603 pages, special interest. nothing to do with funding the government but a lot to do with the powerful getting help with their priorities. >> this is about juicing the bottom line for a handful of big banks and doing it at the expense of the american taxpayers. >> reporter: many democrats are up in arms about a provision that helps wall street, agreed to by their own democratic negotiates that repeals a reform to protect consumers after a meltdown. >> this is viewed as a must-pass bill to give this huge gift to wall street. >> reporter: democratic sources
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tell cnn they worry this opposition to take down the whole bill. and there is more slipped in way back on 1,599, a change in campaign finance laws that allows wealthy donors to give $1.5 million to political parties every to years. >> the billionaires can put in big amounts of monies into candidates that represent their interest. >> reporter: other add-ons, new rules easing in michelle obama's healthy school lunch standards and a federal program that helps feed women and children can now call white potatoes a fresh vegetable, but it just so happens that mike simpson who comes from potato producing idaho is the chair in charge of that program. and up in smoke. the new d.c. marijuana law. congress is effectively blocking it. and score a win for gop points of light bulb regulations. this would do away with the ban on traditional incandescent
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light bulbs. when republicans took control of the house this back-dealing was supposed to stop. >> this is exactly the kind of christmas tree bill throwing everything on that you campaigned on against. you campaigned against. >> i understand. all of the provisions have been worked out in a bipartisan fashion where they wouldn't be in the bill. >> reporter: things like taking the sage gorgeous bird off the endangered lists. many democrats see this as their last chance to set priorities before republicans take full control of congress in january, but wolf, there is a lot of democratic frustration and they are scramble to have a meeting tonight and conservative opposition for other reasons. if this goes down tomorrow, they will pass a short-term bill to keep everything running. >> thank you, dana.
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and you can follow us on twitter, tweet me at wolf blitzer or tweet me at cnn "the situation room." watch us live or dvr it so you won't miss a minute. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. >> the officer at the center of the eric garner case telling investigators he did not use a chokehold when he tackled the man. breaking details on the veeks coming up. and a 12-year-old black boy shot and killed by a white police officer who didn't know the boy was holding a toy gun, tonight his family's attorney speaks out front demanding justice for tamir rice. and a charge to charge -- and a charge for some use of cia torture. >>t's go "outfront."


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