tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN January 8, 2015 11:00am-12:01pm PST
a special moment in this city. you see the lights on. the eiffel tower. beautiful here. just about 8:00 in paris at night. in seconds, it will go black. it will go dark to honor the victims of this massacre. let me pause and we'll watch together. we'll keep watching the eiffel tower. here we go. dark.
beautiful eiffel tower sparkling. this is the first time really we're seeing it dark in memoriam of those lives lost. back to the manhunt. french police tracking suspects to two rural villages thanks to this strange turn of events. authorities now know who these men are. they believe they know these brothers. said and cherif kouachi. they were identified because of an i.d. card one of the two suspects left behind in an abandoned getaway car. both men reportedly were spotted at this gas station north of the french capital. police set up checkpoints now 12 miles in each direction around
this service station. according to french media, the heavily armed suspects robbed the place overnight. let's go live to paris. let me just begin with this manhunt. do we know specifically who these nine people are in custody? >> reporter: no we don't know specifically. they haven't been named. they are in custody as part of the investigation. we heard from the interior minister a few minutes ago in a news conference on french television and what struck me is he was talking about the extra security forces fanned out across the country. 88,000 police officers in total. several hundred extra military troops as part of this operation, this anti-terrorism plan. but what struck me is that he was talking about several regions that were still being looked at as part of the manhunt for these two suspected gunmen. now that tells us that several days 48 hours into this investigation that it appears as
though these two individuals are not in anyway nowhere near being apprehended. this is an important development coming from the interior minister saying look we're looking for them. we have thousands of people out there looking for them but we have not apprehended them yet despite reports as you know over the last 36 48 hours or so of arrests having been made. that's not the case right now according to officials. by the way, i'm right here just a few hundred yards away from where this massacre took place and throughout the day, brooke more and more people came putting flowers down to honor the victims. i saw people openly weeping with messages there plastered on the walls. really this is a nation still reeling from this attack brooke. you can feel it. it's palpable. >> we see it in the aim js simages
in paris and beyond. what do you know about these brothers? what sort of ties to terrorism? have they been on the radar for law enforcement in france? >> reporter: indeed. they have a criminal past. one of the brothers did not. the younger brother did not. the older brother was known to authorities and in fact having served some jail time for having associations with terrorist organizations and that kind of thing. it's not an atypical background for individuals who end up suspected of involvement in things like this. it appears if they are the shooters that is what happened. these two individuals were born in france. france nationality. two brothers. 32 and 34 years old. interesting, the younger of the two suspects the 18 year old whose name was circulated on social media gave himself in and
police have confirmed that the one named was not the person they were looking for as having been part of the attack. this is what we know about the brothers. what we don't know obviously is where are these two men? they are still on the loose after having been accused of killing 12 people in cold blood. >> thank you so much. let's continue this discussion here because as this manhunt for these two terror suspects spreads across france and as hours go on let's take you inside the hunt. david, let me just begin jumping off what hala is reporting from french interior minister that they are still searching. we're 24 48 hours out of this mass murder searching in several regions within france. does that tell you that they're not close? >> it's suggestive they're not close. this could break any moment now. these are not low profile people. you have several ways they're
going to be caught. one is going to be successful. one is public. every french citizen knows their face right now. that's going to be number one. if they commit another crime, that's another avenue of capturing them. technology. presumably they have their car and license plates. they go through a bridge tunnel checkpoint law enforcement vehicles read license plates. that's another avenue and now that they know who they are, they know everyone who knows them and that's why they're going to different regions. >> that was my next question. we have been talking to different experts. we talk about the nine people in custody. i have to imagine that investigators are going to communities, enclaves who may be either familiar with them relatives, is that what's happening right now? >> sure. relatives. friends. they'll look at e-mails. they'll look at phone records. they'll try to find locations that are associated with these folks. it seems that their escape plan wasn't as well thought out as their attack plan. maybe they thought they would be
killed in the assault and didn't bother with an escape and were surprised as anyone to get away. they have no funds. they have to rob a store. they seem disorganized on the run. >> that's mind-boggling. i heard from a military general saying yesterday how precise their marksmanship was and the way they weren't spraying bullets but just striking and killing 12 people yet leave an i.d. and fact they had to rob a gas station. >> i wouldn't make so much of the marksmanship. i can teach a 12-year-old kid to shoot in half an hour. we had many massacres where marginally proficient people have been able to kill a lot of people. it seems they have some training for sure. they knew how to operate them. they knew the basics of sight alignment and how to aim the weapon. that doesn't suggest that they
are commando trained because as we see the rest of it they screw up in a lot of other ways. they leave the i.d. so it is kind of a strange combination. >> what about this getaway car? we know they were in this one initial car when they left the magazine office and hopped into another car, carjacking perhaps someone else. they have this one huge piece of evidence. what are they doing with that car right now? >> the fingerprints for these two folks, you figure they don't need to identify them. they know who they are. they are going to find out who else was in that car based on fingerprints and analysis maybe there is explosive traces. there are a lot of things they can do with a vehicle. i would suspect their main focus right now is the interviews conducting with friends and relatives and waiting for that phone call. we saw them. we think we know who they are. worst thing that can happen is if they hold up in someone's home that's not part of the
investigation and has no nexus to them. >> let's hope not. thank you very much. thank you. next this attack in paris appears to be the latest example of these extremists trying to justify murder in the name of religion. are these attacks part of a larger goal? let's have that discussion. one expert says attacks like this could mean a battle is brewing between terror groups like isis and al qaeda. hear that reason ahead.
you're watching cnn. this slaughter in france on wednesday is heartbreaking and enraging and most sadly of all it's frustrating because all we know the apparent motivations are not new. the warped beliefs of radical islam are linked to the attack last month that killed two at a chocolate shop in sydney australia. that same month it played a part in the slaughter of 132 children. 13 adults at that school in pakistan. it's believed to be behind the murder of a soldier outside of canada's capitol building in
ottawa. for months we have seen how religious extremism has ripped apart war-torn syria and iraq. let me bring in my guests. gentlemen, welcome. >> thank you. >> nice to be with you, brooke. >> i should point out that doctor you wrote a book called "battle for the soul of islam." let me begin with you. as we think about -- there are too many to even talk about right now these different attacks. are all of these different separate attacks part of this larger goal extremists using cartoons with an ultimate goal of this massive imslamic state. >> it's important to not separate them. they're all relateded to ed tod to
a common issue. islam is in the same time as christianity was in the 17th and 18th century. we're in a battle within the house of islam against the clerics that want an islamic state. not just isis but all islamic states. you have saudi arabia and iran and pakistan that really believe -- don't believe in secular state but believe in islamic state of some kind or other. these islamic groups radicals feel the biggest threat to them is secular states that separate church or mosque and state. they want to create isolationism of this country so liberty is not infused into those countries and then muslims within france -- one of the people killed at the magazine was a muslim. a copy editor and a muslim police officer. they want them to feel uncomfortable so that the secular muslims even in the west become estranged and divide the west so that the ideology of liberty does not confront
political islam. >> it's the why do it through bloodshed? let me come back to you. nic robertson, you cover too many of these attacks. do you agree with the doctor? >> absolutely. if you look at some of those radical islamists and his explanation is a wonderful explanation. within that sort of desire to throw off and you find real radicals and those real radicals are pushing for a war without borders and a war without end. you find them in pakistan and afghanistan and other places. you just listed some of the recent attacks over the past month. let's look in afghanistan this past week. an attack with a car bombing attacking european policemen killing six afghan civilians all of them muslims. look at the attack by a suicide
bomber in istanbul. this is a battle inside as we hear. some of the victims like france not muslims but vast majority are. >> one of the questions is how do we fight these ideology? you think of isis and they refer to themselves as the islamic state. the goal is to have that cal. what is the goal for these extremists? >> we're distracted by calling it violent extremism and just about violence. that's a tactic. what they want is -- their goal is to get muslims want to want to die for jihad. so what separates me from the ft. hood shooter or from the attacker in ottawa that killed a parliament and attack on military and media is that i
want -- i joined the u.s. navy. i believe in secular patriotism for american nationalism. there are so many muslims that believe in that nationalism. that's the battle between patriotism for global jihad versus islamic belief and personal faith and belief in our nation state as americans. that's how it has to be in our strategies to put money and resources in a public/private partnership. >> precisely what i was thinking. you need a public condemnation from leaders and leaders in these muslim nations and talking to fareed zakaria yesterday, his opinion not enough of that has happened in the wake of what happened in paris. nic? >> why would you do that? you start to bring down building blocks which keep you in power and keeps your ideology afloat even if you don't necessarily support the real radicals.
saudi arabia is an example of this where radicals -- these real radicals would like to overthrow the royal family there. they also would rather have a state. we talk about muslim brotherhood. saudi arabia doesn't like muslim brotherhood. without that voice of criticism, it is not going to bring about an adjustment course correction examination in dealing with this issue as christianity did. >> it's incredibly frustrating. let's have this conversation over and over and over again. it's so important to point out. nic robertson, thank you both very much. appreciate it. coming up next we'll talk to someone who knew the victims and iranian cartoonists who is living in exile in paris for
cartoons he drew to protest the iranian government. he'll join me next. don't even think about it. i took mucinex dm for my phlegmy cough. yeah...but what about mike? he has that dry, scratchy thing going on... guess what? (cough!) it works on his cough too. what? stop, don't pull me! spoiler alert! she doesn't make it! only mucinex dm packs 2 medicines in one pill to relieve wet and dry coughs for 12 hours. start the relief. ditch the misery. let's end this.
in a news conference this afternoon, france's interior minister condemn the attacks. we are getting reports of shots fired in direction of a muslim prayer hall and grenades tossed into a mosque courtyard. julie, welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> you have written extensively on what happens to muslims in the wake of attacks just like we saw where you are in paris. is there a prevailing fear that islamic phobia will be at an all-time high right now? >> i think there is concern that tensions that have already been simmering will escalate yes. at the same time i witnessed here as a temporary citizen of paris, i'm here as a research fellow with the world association of news publishers
and i observed this incredible spirit of solidarity in the face of freedom of expression which has been tempered. we have concern for the well-being of muslim citizens. when i saw somebody pulling out pages from the koran during one of these vigils the crowd responded and shouted them down and told them to stop. so far we've seen prevailing calm but my work historically as an academic and former journalist with abc and australia and i've reported on conflicts and multiculturalism and researching impacts on australian muslim particularly australian muslim women post-september 11th, what i found in talking to those women is they feel ostracized and
isolated by media coverage and stereotypical coverage which when you are a muslim woman and you choose to cover if you wear an islamic headdress for example, you are incredibly visible at times you can feel terribly afraid and fear being the victim of reprisal attacks. in australia after the recent shooting the recent siege, there was a movement i'll ride with you, which found groundswell on social media which was all about attempting to protect muslim citizens from reprisals in the aftermath of that incident. there's a similar movement starting to occur here in paris but this is a city which has many more tensions and many more historical tensions than sydney and there are certainly -- there is evidence of great concern within the official realm. the president himself has talked
about the need for unity in the face of this discord and need to avoid hatred and reprisal attacks. we do know media coverage is really important. it's important to be fair and accurate. >> i am encouraged by this culture of acceptance there in france just based upon everything historically i read as a result fear of reprisals and also in terms of freedom of speech and press. i know in france caricatures were banned way back in 1800 and so you have the freedom of press in law ever since then. satire has been this integral part of french culture. can you explain to our american audience why this magazine is really -- it's so much more than cartoons for the french. >> indeed. freedom of expression freedom of the press, these are deeply rooted values in france.
the media is still on a pedestal in this country. professional journalists are held in very high regard which from an australian and american perspective is not something we're used to experiencing compe inging contemporary contemporarily. in france it's different. there is enormous respect for the right to speak freely as a practicing journalist or cartoonists to actually ridicule is seen as a right in context of political conversation and debate. and even though there was a lot of disagreement with regards and debate around the tone that was taken and certainly some criticism which lingers around the particular anti-islam streak of some of the cartoons that charlie hebdo published, there's an ironclad support among journalists in france for the right for that publication to have done what they did and to defend the right to continue to
do so which is why you see that the movement i am charlie, we are all charlie as it's become. >> we're so familiar with your academics and studies, thank you so much for spending the time. invaluable. thank you so much. live in paris tonight. next we are live in northern paris where police are conducting a series of raids in the search for two murderers, two terrorists. the suspected killers are still on the run. plus the question should the media be showing these cartoons? cnn is not and critics are blasting this network and other major networks other major newspapers. we'll debate that coming up. you're watching cnn.
shouting "god is great." he spoke with anderson cooper about this chilling video. >> i was going for a smoke outside and he told us that two persons were trying to get in so we heard the very first shots and then more shots right across five or six meters away. >> that close? >> yes. >> 15, 20 feet or so. did you know instantly that they were shots? >> no. at first we just heard shots. we heard screams and then we tried to get on the roof. >> you ran up to the roof? >> yeah we went to the roof and tried to avoid bullets and try
to keep all of the agency safe it's like 20 people. >> that was anderson cooper speaking with a filmmaker. let's take you as we've been reporting nine people in custody here as french investigators and police are searching for these two terrorists. we go live to where this police raid has taken place. tell me what you have seen and what police are telling you. >> reporter: what we see is a country road going to a village about 4 kilometers away. this is closest that police will let us get to the village. what we know is that this is where heavily armed police s.w.a.t. teams, have been conducting house to house searches earlier today. it's possible the search has been widened to the forested area nearby. this is a large forest.
several thousand acres big. so it will take a lot of time to coach through this. this does seem to be the epicenter of that manhunt as it stands now, brooke. >> as we await word for police to comb through this forest let me ask you about this gas station where two brothers were reportedly seen earlier. the gas station attendant were threatened. you saw dozens of people there. describe that scene. >> reporter: that's right. that's less than 12 miles that way. basically we were at the gas station. that's where at 10:30 this morning a gas attendant says the two suspects came. they were armed. and they stole fuel and food and then quickly left. the gas attendant recognizing them called up the police and let them know. that's how police were alerted to this area and tipped off. now, when i was there, i saw forensics van and a number of
plain clothes policemen inside the shop at the gas station looking around the area of the cash register and looking at cctv footage. a number of cameras outside there so clearly trying to track down what the suspects were doing there and where perhaps they were going to next. this is just a short distance from that gas station. there's some security analysts that are speculating that they may be trying to take back roads to try and avoid police and in fact there are checkpoints just a short distance, ten minutes from here we passed a checkpoint where they checked all of the cars looking inside so they are clearly trying to close the net on the suspects. >> this is reminding me of being in boston when they were searching for those two tsarnaev brothers. atika, thank you. the 23 victims of the charlie hebdo massacre have not all been identified.
of the 12 people who did die, this is what we know. all of the cartoonists and all of the journalists had solid reputations for lampooning the high and mighty no matter who they were. no target was too taboo. no content too offensive and they took pleasure at poking religion in the eye and were fearless in the face of threats of attack. the firebombing of charlie hebdo emboldened them to be more provocative. georges wolinski's daughter put out a statement. and our next guest joins us live from paris. welcome. >> thank you very much.
>> i am very sorry for your colleagues who you have lost. i understand you knew several of them. i want to ask you about them. first i understand you were friends with the mother who apparently was threatened and had returned with her child according to reports and was with her child when she was threatened to type in this code. have you been in touch with her? how is she doing? >> actually i guess that she's in the first one that i could have access because i only have her number and as soon as i heard about this terrible problem, i just called her and she couldn't talk very well and i just asked if she's okay. that's the only question i could ask. that's all. that's all. and then i seen the name of my
friend among the artists who had been killed. >> i understand you knew them. can you tell me about them? >> the last time we were together was in september of 2014. we have been participated in one festival and we had a very long and beautiful time together. we exchanged talk about freedom of expression and how tough it is to be an exile and we were talking about how we are at risk and how we are safe in france. >> how much did that sense of risk worry him on a daily basis?
>> i think they were aware of the risk and the situation they were facing since 2011. i remember in 2011 i bet chmet charb. i said you are in high danger. you are at risk. he said no don't worry. i'm in france. by the way, i don't have anything to lose so i will continue. i have my own bodyguards and i'm not in iran and he made fun of the subjects. >> he made fun of the subject. sounds like they were well aware. he had his own personal protection. this seems to be a galvanizing moment for cartoonists such as yourself and those in favor of freedom of speech. do you see as a cartoonist
yourself possible to go too far whether you are drawing a cartoon, the prophet muhammad or of jesus christ. at what point is it unacceptable? >> well this is a question of taste. some cartoonists prefer to draw about prophets and about jesus and muhammad. some cartoonists prefer not to do it. but right now i think something important happened to us. we are much more about freedom of expression. since yesterday i have received more than 100 cartoons from many many friends and colleagues from all over the world. we are exchanging cartoons about charlie and charlie became a symbol for us. charlie now belongs to the world and belongs to all cartoonists in the world. it's not a french journal at
all. and that's the change. i believe that they lost their lives for this value which is freedom, freedom of expression and now it's our responsibility to defend it in a way that it should be. we are cartoonists. we are not criminals. and we want to alert society. we want to show the reality to people to the world. that's what we are -- what we are for and i am very very sad and at the same time very very very motivated more than before in a way to go too far for freedom of expression but personally maybe i will have some different point of view or tastes to my friends who are
working. i don't care. i support them. freedom is freedom. >> i think the magazine recognizes that as well despite the bloodshed in their own offices they'll continue and they'll publish the next magazine next week. thank you. next one question in the wake of all these attacks, should media outlets be showing these satirical cartoons. cnn is choosing not to. critics are blasting our network and other papers and outlets as well. a big discussion. we'll be right back. please! no. for those headaches that just aren't bad enough for a lot of medicine, there's new excedrin mild headache. 35% less medicine plus a booster to end everyday headaches fast. please! oh, what a headache! actually...my headache's gone. excedrin mild headache. wow, that was fast! listen up... i'm reworking the menu. veggies you're cool... mayo, corn dogs...you are so out of here! ahh... the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure.
you're watching cnn. in democracies, should there be a limit on what you can say and what you cannot? we were having a debate over the movie "the interview." even before hackers hit the studio critics said the film went too far and obama administration criticized the french magazine a couple years ago for being too insensitive. cnn along with other major networks choosing not to show these cartoons and that decision has sparked all kind of debate
among journalists and beyond. let me bring in carl bernstein and brian stelter, host of cnn's "reliable sources." gentlemen, welcome to both of you. let's begin with do you think news organizations should be showing these cartoons? >> i think this is one of the most difficult questions there is to answer and there's no definitive yes or no answer to it that's necessarily right. i do believe we should show the image at this point after the fact. >> why? >> solidarity and freedom of expression and freedom of religion freedom to practice religion are all based on the same principle and i think we need to assert it. at the same time i think focusing on the american and you're european media, we need to focus on islamic media.
it's a huge question for the islamic media. they haven't responded. they haven't been courageous for years. it's time for them to take a look at their actions. i'm much more interested in them and what's happened in paris is a huge problem. indicative of what the islamic world faces today and we need to look at that and they need to be coming up with some solutions. and condemnation and action in the capitals of the islamic and arab world, presidents of the countries with huge islamic populations, working with the united states working with other governments in europe to fight terrorism as a fundamental practice of their governance. >> we had an entire segment of experts who would agree with you. that's interesting. first time i heard about islamic media. walk us through. let's be a tad transparent in
terms of our own safety. this is insensitive religious material. >> cnn decided in the past years ago not to show other images that would be considered sacreligious. i want to agree with what carl is saying and i think every journalistic bone in our body does but there's the editor that decides to run these images and has an act of violence occur against a staff member. >> there comes a point when we have to be courageous. and this is the point where we need some solidarity. we need to be courageous. i agree totally you shouldn't show these images that are insulting to another religion.
i want to say to sony that the movie was a horror and didn't need to show what it showed but the behavior of the studios, sony early on there had to be solidarity and we all including cnn, including time warner had to show that movie. i think the same principle obtains here but at the same time i'm well aware how hard this decision is and that you can have a reasonable opinion on the other side. >> what about safety? we have heard this before and it's come up in other instances in stories we were covering because unlike some areas that don't have correspondents in these hot areas where wars are being waged, we do. we do. >> that's why i talk about
solidarity. i think if our industry if our intellectual would be united we gain some safety and we can act courageously. >> safety in numbers. >> as a movement of solidarity yesterday a signed a petition saying that we as writers and artists believe that this material must be shown. as it's been said we're all charlie hebdo in this situation. >> there is safety but also the issue of offense. it does create offense. >> i agree. somehow we need to explain that this is not intended as offense. it's intended as news and as what we believe in so that you can practice your religion. >> for what it's worth, the head
of another major division said we're reserving the right to show the cartoons in the future. we're not today but it doesn't mean we won't tomorrow. >> it's a very hard call. "the washington post" editorial page of all things posted it. good for "the washington post" in this instance. i think again back to your question of safety. more and more institutions need to do it. and not rub it in anybody's face or anything of the kind. >> some is proportion. >> i think we need to go back to a larger question of what's going on in the islamic world. let's take a terrible comparison of nazi germany. there has been for years since 9/11 too much silence in islamic world about terrorism. >> but some experts say that these leaders in these nations who should be condemning this now have their hands tied. >> they are the leaders of the
country and they are also religious leaders who need to get on al jazeera and say -- >> why aren't they? >> maybe they are. i don't want to judge that they're not. i think it's time for islamic world and the so-called moderate forces of islam in which there are hundreds of millions of people that they have to organize. the president of tunisia likely a guy who might be involved. struggled to contain communism for generations. we need a world struggle to contain terrorism, intellectual basis for it media basis for it. we need a strategy that brings all of these things together and to me that's the significance of
paris that we have now come to a particular juncture in this struggle that hopefully is going to produce not so much a reaction here but there. >> you have a big show on your hands with all this, stealthbrian stelter, on sunday. thank you. we'll continue that conversation. brian stelter, thank you very much. next police right now conducting raids inside homes in the search for two terror suspects in this attack. we'll take you there live. plus hear what the united states is doing in surveillance of its high profile terror suspects. stay right here. you're watching cnn. alright, so this tylenol arthritis lasts 8 hours but aleve can last 12 hours. and aleve is proven to work better on pain than tylenol arthritis. so why am i still thinking about this? how are ya? good. aleve. proven better on pain. thanks. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] fedex® has solutions to enable global commerce
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after news broke of the attack cartoonists felt compelled to stand up for their craft. some cartoons are heartbreaking some are hopeful but resonate with emotions that are raw. here's how some cartoonists reflected on this tragedy in art. >> i didn't actually put it together particularly for publication. i saw the breaking news as i was about to go to bed here in australia and stayed up to watch the events unfolding on television.
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i'm brooke baldwin. this is our special live coverage here of what's happening in paris right now. we're following this breaking news. we now know nine people are in police custody in connection to the slaughter of a dozen journalists, cartoonists and police at the offices of the french satirical magazine charlie hebdo. as for these two gunmen they are still at large. heavily armed police have been massing on this country road about 65 miles northeast of paris and another rural location. the belief now is that they are closing in on these suspects a day after this mass killing in downtown paris. we know who they are looking for. take a look at these photos. these are brothers. cherif and said kouachi both in their early 30s. police identifying them thanks to this. this i.d. card left behind by one of the suspects in their abandoned getaway car. in this