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tv   CNN Newsroom  CNN  January 10, 2015 12:00pm-2:01pm PST

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continues right now. i'm fredericka whitfield. jim shut toeciutto is in paris. >> reporter: thank you, fredericka. welcome to our viewers. here's in paris, we're going to give you the latest. a fresh wave of fear rising tonight. a french police telling our cnn terror analyst that terror sleeper cells were activated over the last 24 hours inside france. police officers here have been told to erase all traces of their online presence on social media and to keep their weapons close at all times. meanwhile, the hunt is on for the world's most-wanted terror companion, 26-year-old hayat boumediene is the only person suspected of connections to the terror spree in paris who is still alive. a turkish source telling cnn that boumediene entered turkey on january 2nd from france. a french source tells cnn that she then may have been heading on to syria. and this. cnn has learned that israeli prime minister benjamin
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netanyahu will be in paris tomorrow for a rally in the wake of this week's terror attacks after four hostages were killed at a kosher grocery store. netanyahu told french jews that israel was also their home. and meantime hezbollah's leader is reportedly slamming the terrorists who slaughtered 12 people at "charlie hebdo" pag. according to the associated press, he is quoted as saying that islamist terrorists have done more to harm the religion and insult the prophet muhammad than anyone who drew a cartoon or wrote a book. i want to bring in now our expert panel to talk about these major developments the news changing by the minute here. joining me now, global affairs analyst, bobby gauche. our national security analyst peter bergen as well as senior international correspondent fred pleitgen just outside that grocery store where those four hostages were killed yesterday in eastern paris. bobby, perhaps i can start with you. this new report that sleeper cells have been activated inside
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france what if any, warnings should be going out to french people right now? i noticed, walking down the champs elysees that people were out. you can see behind me that traffic is still going, and i saw some police officers out as well. how serious do you consider this warning? >> well i think if the french police are taking it seriously, they do have excellent connections inside radical groups and very good track record in espionage, then it should be taken very seriously. the difficulty of course now is that after the incidents of this week many french people want to come out in defiance as we've seen with all these rallies and marches and parades. they want to show the terrorists that they are unafraid that they are unbowed, and you want to -- you know you can understand that impulse. the determination to show that they will not be frightened into locking -- into staying behind locked doors. and at the same time you have this heightened risk. so for french security this is
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a really difficult moment where if indeed these cells are more active then there are more targets available to them because more and more french people are coming out in protest in this way. >> i'm glad you mentioned that bobby. just credit where credit is due. as i've been walking around paris today, i have seen people doing exactly that showing their defiance frankly just by living their lives. and there's one big visible demonstration of that right now on the top of the larkarc de triomphe. "je suis charlie." peter, i wonder if you can help put this latest terror warning into context for our viewers. i was told for instance in the last 4 hours by a former head of france's counterterror services
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that there is something along the lines of 5,000 suspected terrorists in france. if you have this warning going out of sleeper cells activated, can you give a sense of how big that threat would be how many sleeper cells? do we just not know? is it unlikely that even the french authorities know how many potential attackers there are out there tonight? >> well yeah. i mean we've seen varying estimate of the number of people for instance who have gone to syria from france. it is the largest group of westerners who have traveled to the syrian conflict. the british government estimates 700 have gone. not clear which groups they've joined. i saw in today's "new york times" of an estimate of 1,000 to 2,000. so the point is that that is a very large number. as you've been reporting over the last couple of days for each one -- in the tier one case of these suspects i mean you have 20 individuals that we'll need to monitor, a particular
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individual, so you do the math. it's just an extraordinary number of people that you would need to follow around people who are deemed to be dangerous because of this very large group of people who have gone to syria including, it seems, perhaps now, the girl friendfriend of the people who pulled off the "charlie hebdo" attack. it's an almost impossible thing to do. it is however, somewhat simplified by social media, electronic surveillance. you don't have to monitor physically all of these people. presumably you have phone numbers and sort of e-mail accounts and stuff. that makes it a little bit easier. but still, it's an impossible task to look at everybody who might be a suspect. >> yeah the numbers described to me three to ten officers to follow just one target. if you have 5,000 potentials that gets us very quickly into the tens of thousands of personnel. just not possible. we do know that tonight in light of this latest threat but also just the attacks that have played out over the last three
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to four days that hundreds more french police and frankly military as well have been deployed in and around paris to help increase security plus in preparation for tomorrow's planned march in solidarity where you have leaders such as netanyahu and others coming here, security for that as well. fred pleitgen you're outside that kosher grocery store where i was yesterday as well as the siege unfolded. big news today that the french now saying that the girlfriend of the attacker there, amedi coulibaly. there was talk she might have been in that grocery store. now there's talk that she left a number of days ago. what are the details, and how did police learn this just now? >> well it appears as though the turkish authorities also knew about this as well. they said that they were tracking her inside turkey that she got there on january 2nd and apparently later made her way on
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to syria. and so the french authorities, which obviously have been putting out the dragnet trying to find this woman at some point must have been found out that in fact she hasn't been inside france for a very long time or at least before these events here unfolded. one of the things that we also have to keep in mind is she was also very much sought after also due to the fact that they thought that she was part of that killing of the police officer that happened here on thursday where coulibaly apparently shot that police officer, then got away and then later went here on the kosher grocery store. so the french authorities would obviously still very much like to speak to this woman. however, at this point that would be impossible. however, still of the four people they believe have been involved in these plots that have unfolded here over the past couple of days, she is the only one who's still alive, and she would, obviously, have a lot of very sensitive information that would be very important to them. one of the things however, jim, i have to say that's been going on here tonight is that there has been a vigil also for the people who were killed in that
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raid. it's been very important to the folks here. there were a large number of members of the jewish community who came out here. and i do have to say there's a lot of people from the jewish community who were very upset at what happened and who quite frankly are very concerned about what happened. of course francois hollande the president, called this an anti-semitic attack. when we had the vigil going on a little less than an hour ago, you did have people here with banners screaming "je suis charlie," of course equating these two incidents and also making note of the fact that part of it at least, there was an anti-semitic attack that went on. the jewish community here in france of course has been saying for a very long time that anti-semitism is on the rise that they realize it's not even a small fraction of the muslim community that's doing that but it is a faction that is in fact growing. and it is something of great concern, and that concern, i have to say, was something that came out in the street today. in fact i'd like to show you something because the debate about all this is going on tonight here in the streets of paris. if we just pan over here really quick, we can see that folks are
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debating what's going on right now. there's a sort of trove of people a little further. there they are. who have been debating this for a very long time. and this situation actually even got a little bit rowdy for a while when some people started screaming a little louder, a little sort of -- i wouldn't say a fight, but a little bit of back-and-forth sort of broke out. but it is something where people are seriously having these debates where the jewish community is saying we have some serious concerns about what's going on. and it seems as though at this point in time this nation is debating on what this new dialogue between christians muslims and jews needs to look like in this country. and they've certainly come to realize that they need some sort of new mode of operation in this country after these horrifying attacks that have taken place and also all the things in the run-up to what happened here over the past couple of days, jim. >> fred i'm glad you made that point. it is a necessary debate. and just to remind viewers outside of france outside of europe and back in the u.s. that in recent elections in europe
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you've had a number of far right parties, certainly here in france the national front and in other countries in europe the uk et cetera that have had far right parties who are anti-immigrant with very you know offensive views, frankly, to many garner significant support in national elections, and the anger goes in many directions because just in the last two, three days you've had attacks on mosques, kabob shops, part of the backlash against the muslim faith as well. i want to get to a point you raised as well fred and ask bobby and peter about it because this gets to how do countries such as france and europe and the u.s. track all these terrorists moving around particularly with the supreme concern focused on foreign fighters returning from syria to their homes in europe and possibly to the u.s. where they might carry out terror attacks? peter, i might go to you. it appears there was a major
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disconnect here, if the french were not aware until today, that someone with deep connections to terrorists here this hayat boumediene traveled to turkey -- well really more than a week ago. i've been talking to u.s. intelligence officials for a number of months about the concern of the returning foreign fighters. they've talked about the increased communication, cooperation among western intelligence agencies to fight this. this seems to have been a hole exposed in that kind of movement communication and tracking of that kind of movement back and forth. peter, significant? >> yeah. i mean i think, you know you can drive from paris to damascus effectively, without, you know much of a problem. i mean, that's part of the issue. secondly i think the french only belatedly begun to realize that this was a major issue for them in november of last year. they basically made it a crime to go and travel to join a terrorist organization in a country like syria or iraq which was sort of closing the barn
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door after the horse had bolted. finally, i think the turks themselves have had a not particularly great role in this. i've talked to senior law enforcement officials recently who say the turks have got a better handle on this and certainly the fact that they've flagged the travel of hayat, the girlfriend right now is indicative of that. but previous lip, it was a bit of an open season. that anybody that went to turkey could get into syria pretty easily. there's quite a lot of blame to go all around here, jim. >> no question. and to be fair we're talking about hundreds we're talking about thousands of people. this is difficult for any intelligence agency to do but the fact is that is the problem that they are facing today. i would add the note that in the case of hayat boumediene she boarded a flight for turkey when it would be different from driving a car. so you would at least have a moment when she had to show her passport. you would have a name you know the possibility of running a name through a computer system. bobby gauche, peter bergen fred pleitgen on the scene of that kosher market shooting. thanks very much for joining us.
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i'm going to turn to my colleague, brianna keilar. she's with us in the u.s. tonight and will be continuing to be with us in the u.s. tonight tracking all those developments. brianna? >> thanks jim. as we mentioned, police from paris to istanbul are now on a frantic hunt for this woman. you just heard them talking about her. hayat boumediene. who is she? how did she come to be involved in this terror plot? that's coming up after the break.
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welcome back to our viewers in the u.s. and overseas. i'm jim sciutto in paris. we're following a number of new developments tonight including word of a new terror alert here in france targeting police. as well as news that we now know that those believed responsible for the "charlie hebb bow "hebdo" attacks. cnn's brian todd has more on hayat boumediene. >> reporter: a western intelligence source tells cnn boumediene lived with coulibaly and the two once traveled to malaysia together. >> we don't know if she was involved as some type of cover or more likely she was involved because she was radicalized along with her boyfriend and got sucked in to working together at some level. >> reporter: the french newspaper "le monde" published these photos apparently of boo boumediene boumediene. cnn cannot verify the authenticity. "le monde" reports she once told
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police they had once practiced firing crossbows in the countryside of central france as shown in these pictures. boumediene had been in a relationship with him since 2010 according to "le monde," and she was interviewed by counterterrorism police that same year. analysts say while the number of female jihadists is growing, their male counterparts still consider them valuable cover. >> many of these people now have wives, have girlfriends, that enables them to do things they might not otherwise be able to do. you don't appear to be a lone young, angry man. you're walking with women. >> reporter: we learned from the paris prosecutor more solid information connecting hayat boumediene and her boyfriend to the brothers who killed the people at the magazine. prosecutors are aware of more than 500 phone calls made between boumediene and the wife of suspect cherif kouachi. brian todd, cnn, washington. >> i want to bring in my colleague brianna keilar in new york. she's got a panel of experts to talk over these latest
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developments. brianna? >> thanks jim. joining me we have global affairs analyst bobby gauche the managing editor of courts. we have political commentator buck sexton a former cia counterterrorism analyst and interrogation and terrorism expert robert mcfadden. he's a former special agent in charge at ncis now with the sufan group. bobby bobby, something we've been talking a little bit about, the girlfriend hayat boumediene this is the girlfriend of the shooter in the kosher market in paris. she -- we think she took part in some of the planning here. i mean do we necessarily think that she did take part even if she had left days before? >> well the plot itself from what we can deduce it suggests that this is something that they had been planning for a while. so yes, it's possible that she was part of the plan. the fact that she leaves paris before the execution suggests at the very least, they wanted to get her out of harm's way. they wanted to get her away from
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the police and from investigations. her exact participation, her exact role we'll find out, i'm sure in the days ahead as the sort of forensic evidence. we just heard her having 500 phone calls to one of the kouachi brother's wife. we'll know more in the next few days. >> yeah. we certainly do expect to know more. we were talking in the last panel about being able to track these individuals, knowing that so many people may have come back or may be inspired to pursue a similar extremist path. but are these guys different, buck, do you think? these are the brothers were known. they're on the u.s. no-fly list. mr. coulibaly is certainly known, was in prison. is this something that shouldn't have gotten past the authorities in france? >> well it certainly raises eyebrows that you have an
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individual who only serves 18 months for a terrorism offense. the french authorities have surveillance on him. but this is part of the soft underbelly of a free society. you can't lock somebody up for longer just because you have a very good inclination. the laws are what they are in france. i think that any time this happens, there's this idea that somehow we could have perfect security if we did something differently, if there was some difference in either the law or the procedure. but quite honestly, the attacks are going to happen. it's cyclical in nature. we can point to similar attacks like this in the past. and i think what you see here is just the tactics and procedures of the french police particularly the counterassault teams like the gign who are a big differentiator between what could have been more of a mass casualty attack. >> you have one of the brothers who served 18 months for a terrorism-related offense. so that said that is alarming in that it isn't much time. but at the same time does that flag him in a way that makes him a priority for french authorities to really keep track of do you think, robert? >> should, should have been. >> was this a mistake? >> well i mean speaking to the
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sheer numbers, the french have challenges that we don't when you're talking about the numbers. the demographic makeup the amount of foreign fighters. but here's the comparison, though. in what we've heard over the last, now, over 48 hours about both of the brothers the third party involved here amedi, the travel, the facilitation for foreign fighters into iraq attempt or actual travel over there, one brother had gone to yemen. i can't imagine a scenario in the united states where -- and plus the prison time the associations in prisons with other very bad characters where we would have someone like that in the united states that wouldn't have been under incredible scrutiny. >> i'm going to bring in jim. he's in paris. and he has a question for our panel here. jim? >> i wonder as you listen to this latest news we have tonight, perhaps i might ask bobby about this, and if the
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other panelists want to give their thoughts about new terror cells activated here in paris, specifically targeting police. can you help our viewers understand how france responds to that? it's a country of 50 million people. there are currently tens of thousands of police and security forces around the country responding to this terror threat. that is an enormous task to try to protect all of them. in fact you're telling them to protect themselves by keeping their weapons close at all times, by erasing their profiles on social media. how enormous a task is that for french police to do successfully? >> that is a huge task because as we were saying earlier, not only is there a large police force, that large police force is now out in the street to protect large numbers of french people who are coming out in demonstration, in sympathy for those who have been killed by the terrorists.
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so the police are even more vulnerable than they ever have been before. that detail that they've been asked to erase their social media profiles that speaks to a very very specific threat. i've never heard a police force being asked to do that. i mean many countries around the world, unfortunately, it's the nature of our times that different levels of alert are announced, but i've never heard that specific detail of alert being ordered. and that says to me -- and maybe the other guests will agree -- that that says to me something very very particular has been uncovered. >> there's always a threat. and i worked for the nypd counterterrorism division. this is something we had to look at even the aftermath of the times square bombing, for example, where you had a manhunt going on. and then after you had seized the individual responsible for the bombing in 2010 there were concerns about follow-on attack attacks. there were concerns about deeping the population safe while engaged in those secondary investigations. and also trying to suppress any of the follow-on attacks that may come. so there are a lot of moving pieces. and the probe is that problem is
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that security forces in france or my case the u.s. to be 100% successful. it's a big ask. the french counterterrorism police for example, are very well trained and french intelligence services are excellent. so they have a pretty good shot as good a shot as most countries would, i think. >> indeed. in the event after something like this the aftermath or this period right now where the french may be acting on intelligence they have and from the allies but you have that period of uncertainty. so everything swings toward an arch conservative approach when it comes to security and that's the period the french are in right now. >> gentlemen, thank you so much. robert mcfadden with us buck sexton and bobby ghosh. jim, back to you. >> there's a rally tomorrow expected here in paris to draw as many as 1 million people marching through the streets. that adds to the security challenge for french police and anti-terror forces. we'll be covering that very
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closely here at cnn tomorrow. well, at the center of this investigation, a u.s.-born cleric who was once a feared jihadi he was killed by the u.s. a few years ago. but now his name is resurfacing in this investigation. we'll explain who he is right after this. [container door opening] ♪ what makes it an suv is what you can get into it. ♪ [container door closing] what makes it an nx is what you can get out of it. ♪ introducing the first-ever lexus nx turbo and hybrid. once you go beyond utility there's no going back. huh, fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. everybody knows that. well, did you know you that former pro football player ickey woods will celebrate almost anything? unh-uh. number 44... whoooo! forty-four, that's me!
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welcome back.
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i'm jim sciutto in paris. there is mounting evidence that the two paris terror attack suspects had training in yemen. that is the home of an al qaeda in the arabian peninsula once led by anwar al awlaki until he was killed in a drone strike there 2011. cherif the younger of the two attack suspects told a reporter by telephone shortly before he was killed on friday that al awlaki paid him to come for yemen. u.s. officials say it is likely that said kouachi, the older brother, also crossed paths with awlaki during a 2011 stint in yemen. cnn international correspondent nic robertson has more on the potentiallinks here in paris to the american awlaki. >> reporter: anwar al awlaki. the radical american-born yemen-based preacher killed in a u.s. drone strike september 2011.
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an inspiration for some of the paris gunmen and supporters worldwide. >> he reminds me of for example, osama bin laden and also ayman al zawahiri in terms of he's soft-spoken, and at the same time the knowledge that they have. >> reporter: reality was, al awlaki was such a rising al qaeda star in 2011 bin laden was jealous of him, blowing off suggestions the cleric should run al qaeda in yemen. al awlaki's father was a minister in the yemeni government. he had lived in the usa, was smart and privileged had preached at a mosque in virginia. but was named in the 9/11 commission as knowing some of the 9/11 hijackers. soon after, he left for yemen. that's where this man, morton storm, a danish biker-turned-jihadi who says he became a cia spy, met him. >> his passion to retain the west and spread this global
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jihad, it was his whole life. he sacrificed his life to achieve that. >> reporter: he also had a taste for western women. storm says awlaki asked to fix him up with a white blonde european wife. they met on video. >> this recording is done specifically for the brother who is carrying this recording, this is a trustworthy brother. >> headscarves. i hope you will be pleased with it. >> reporter: she could not be reached by cnn. storm says the cia used him to track al awlaki who had become reclusive fearing an attack but he was also becoming more dangerous, asking storm and others to recruit western radicals for training. >> once they have trained, he will request of the leadership of al qaeda, will request that he will return back to the west and then wait.
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>> reporter: his tally of hits and near-misses was growing. inspiring fort hood shooter nidal hasan who had gunned down 13 servicemen at the base in 2009. and the london subway bombers in 2005 who killed 52 people. also inspiring two foiled plots to blow up u.s. airliners flying to the united states. by the time he was killed al awlaki had become a massive global threat but storm warns the paris attacks may not be the last time he reaches from beyond the grave. >> there are sleeper cells, and they are will be to be patient for even a couple of years to be ready to hit. >> reporter: with this paris threat apparently nearly over the world's counterterrorism officials can turn their attention to that looming threat. nic robertson, cnn, atlanta. should the west be as worried about yemen as we are
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today about iraq and syria? u.s. counterterror officials have told me the answer to that question is yes, for sure. we're going to talk about that more with our panel right after this break. here's our new trainer ensure active heart health. i maximize good stuff, like my potassium and phytosterols which may help lower cholesterol. new ensure active heart health supports your heart and body so you stay active and strong. ensure, take life in.
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welcome back. i'm jim sciutto in paris. and we want to update you now on the very latest. a french police source telling cnn that terror sleeper cells were activated just over the last 4 hours inside france. police officers have been told tonight to erase all traces of their online presence on social media and to keep their weapons close at all times. meanwhile, the hunt is on for the world's most-wanted terror companion, 26-year-old hayat boumediene is the only person suspected of connections to the terror spree here in paris who remains alive today. and this. cnn has learned that israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu will be in paris tomorrow for a rally in the wake of this week's terror attacks. that rally expected to draw some
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1 million people to the french capital. well there is growing evidence pointing to ties between the kouachi brothers accused of carrying out the paris magazine attacks and al qaeda cells inside yemen. there is also a reported claim which cnn cannot verify that al qaeda in the ararebian peninsula, says it orchestrated the attack on the magazine "charlie hebdo." the government of yemen says it has launched an investigation into a possible link between the two. brianna keilar joins me now, again, from new york. brianna? >> thanks jim. that's the question. do these attacks have a link to yemen? and here to discuss this again, we have cnn global affairs analyst bobby ghosh, buck sexton and senior vice president of the sufan group and former ncis special agent in charge robert mcfadden. also national security analyst peter bergen who wrote "manhunt: the ten-year search for bin laden." how worried, peter, i'll start
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with you, how worried should the west be about aqap al qaeda in the arabian peninsula? >> well they just conducted the most deadly terrorist attack in europe in a decade. so i think that speaks for itself. i mean i think the evidence that al qaeda in yemen was behind this attack is simply overwhelming. it's not a case of speculation now. we have one of the principal perpetrators giving the interview to french television saying he was behind it. we have eyewitnesses at the scene, also hearing this claim when the attack on the magazine happened. we have aqap saying that they were behind this. i mean i just don't -- and we also have all this travel to yemen by both brothers. i don't think -- it's no longer an open question. this is a group that has succeeded actually until recently,ist been a record of failure. their plans to attack american airlines all fizzled. but now they have this big win, unfortunately. >> and do you expect peter, that this is really the template that we are going to see happen
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again? >> brianna, i'm never sure there's a real template. if you're a terrorist, you kind of like, improvise given the situation. but if you look at what happened on wednesday at the attack on the magazine it's kind of a hybrid of what happened in the boston marathon bombings minus the bombing and also the mumbai attacks with multiple gunmen where you basically keep the whole thing going for as long as possible. you know you're going to die at the end of it. and, you know you get three days of sustained global media coverage as happened in all those cases. >> all right, peter. i'm going to bring jim back in. i know jim sciutto, there with us in paris, i know you have some questions for our panel here. >> reporter: thank you, brianna. interesting day today as we not only digest the attacks in the last three and four days here in paris, but look forward to the possibility of new attacks here. and two major questions seem to
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have been raised. one is how does france respond to the possibility there are other sleeper cells out there? two, what does the fact that this attack happened say about france's ability to do that in light of the fact that these attackers were known to the security services here? for a time they had been under surveillance but were no longer under surveillance when those attacks began on wednesday. i wonder if i could ask that second question first. and peter, maybe you want to come in on that. do you consider this an intelligence failure, one? and two, what does that say to you about france's ability looking forward in light of additional threats to prevent further attacks? >> i'll tell hindsight is always 20/20. if you look at the boston bombings tamerlan the older brother, who basically led the attack you know he was the subject of fbi scrutiny and then you know he kind of fell off the radar. he was also involved it looks like in a triple murder in the boston area which was never really pursued properly by local
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police. and major nidal hasan, he exchanged all these e-mails with al awlaki. that was known to the fbi. one part of the fbi wanted to investigate him. one part of the fbi dropped the ball. you know do the thought experiment where an attacker comes along who has never showed up on the radar screen of law enforcement. in a way, that's an even worse picture. typically with these terrorists attack there have been some indicators that they should have been more carefully paid attention to whether that's in the united states or france or anywhere else, jim. >> all right. >> reporter: brianna -- brianna, i think from both of our -- >> i want to ask you -- sorry, jim. go ahead. >> reporter: no brianna, i was just going to say that you know it's only fair that intelligence services counterterrorist services have tremendously a difficult job whether it's in the u.s. or here in europe. and i suppose, brianna, we're seeing that play out here both in these attacks this week but
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as france and other countries try to prevent new attacks. >> certainly. and i wonder to follow on what we heard peter talking about, do you feel that this is an intelligence failure, or is it -- is it that there are so many young muslim men in france who have gone from anger to extremeism that even at this point, even though we're talking about a very small fraction of the muslim population obviously it is a very small fraction, and that's important to note. but are there enough people like these brothers and like the market shooter that you just can't keep up with them? what do you think? >> i think that that's the case. i mean when you look at radicalization in france one of the big problems that domestic intelligence services always have to deal with is catching that gap or people in that gap between radicalization radical ideas and actually jihadization or taking it to the level of a terror attack. you have the situation just?
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the sub in the suburbs of paris, regularly burned cars. hundreds. there will be riots. there are individuals spewing radical rhetoric. zut that but that doesn't mean you can throw them in jail for a long period of time. their laws actually are much less defensive of civil liberty than people realize. they can essentially pull what they want to pull in terms of someone's information. even with that ability, people are going to slip through the cracks. it is abhorrent, although it's inevitable at the same time. >> it's like drinking out of ai fire hose i think, at this point. stay with me. we'll come back to you with other questions, robert buck and bobby. get a quick commercial break in here. as france reacts to these events many are asking were the attacks an act of vengeance for the death of american-born al qaeda leader anwar al awlaki? we'll go inside the story of the double agent who risked it all to take down one of the world's most dangerous terrorists. "double agent: inside al qaeda for the cia." that's tonight at 9:00 eastern only on cnn. and despite the tragedy,
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"charlie hebdo" is moving forward with a new issue next wednesday. eight pages. this is a defiant show that the cartoonists cannot be silenced by terrorists. we have that ahead. ♪♪ ben... well, that was close. you ain't lyin'. let quicken loans help you save your money. with a mortgage that's engineered to amaze. (son) oh no... can you fix it, dad? yeah, i can fix that. (dad) i wanted a car that could handle anything. i fixed it! (dad) that's why i got a subaru legacy.
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the editorial staff of "charlie hebdo" magazine met on friday to begin work on their upcoming issue. they held their meeting at "the liberation" newspaper. really it's the first time that the staff had to meet elsewhere since their building was firebombed back in 2011. "charlie hebdo's" attorney spoke for the entire staff, many of whom were in tears. >> translator: we're also here to work so we are going to forget about the craziness outside this room. we are going to forget about the video cameras. we are simply going to work on our next issue. those who are here will make it work. >> joining me now to talk about "charlie hebdo" and its decision to get right back to work is cnn senior media correspondent and
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host of "reliable sources," brian stelter. and brian, i know that you spoke with someone who was in that meeting. this must have been so emotional. >> yeah this was the first editorial meeting yesterday. and now they are at work again today and will be through the weekend preparing this publication. they've said they want to print a million copies next week. usually they print 60,000 copies a week. so you can imagine the interest is going to be next wednesday when this comes out. >> what's the message that they're trying to send? because to get -- even really to kind of get out of bed and meet the day and to go back to work just a couple of days after this happened. this is amazing, and this was so difficult. >> yeah. >> what do they want people and the terrorists to take away from this? >> to print anything would be a statement and will be a statement next week. but what they're printing is also very interesting. what they're discussing printing anyway is also very interesting. according to the person who was in this meet isabel hahn they talked about potentially not running obituaries of the dead cartoonists but instead running unpublished cartoons they had created in the past. they talked about not wanting to
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print blank pages. that was a possibility as well. and you could imagine that would come up as an idea. they don't want to have emptiness in the newspaper of the magazine. they want to fill it with content. not necessarily with obituaries or looking back at what happened last week, but instead showing a more triumphant face and putting out an issue that doesn't feel like a tribute but feels like what they would have always done. >> but in' way, a way, it is a tribute, right? it will be their work. >> that's exactly the idea. this is all evolving. you can imagine the meetings they're in trying to figure that out. and there was one quote yesterday that was really striking. it said i think we can also say and we should express in the issue that we've been very lonely these past few years. you know that there weren't a lot of other magazines like them out there that were taking the kinds of risks, being as provocative and as incendiary about all religions, by the way, not just about islam, not just extreme forms of islam. they're obviously not lonely right now. they've had so much support come in both financial as well as moral support, whether it's other newspapers magazines
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republishing some of their cartoons or whether it's donations from "the guardian" and from a press fund backed by google and others. >> real quick, if they're hoping for 1 million copies how many would they normally print? >> usually 60,000. >> 1-6? 6-0? >> 6-0. we're talking at least 14 times as many as would normally come out. i have a feeling it will maybe even get higher than that not to mention all the digital copies. i think most people will want to see this online if they can't get a copy here in the, they'll be able to see it on the internet. >> many people who didn't necessarily know what "charlie hebdo hebdo" was. >> who didn't even know how to pronounce the name but are now very curious. >> brian stelter thank you so much. is the group also looking to turn france against all muslims? how would that work? we have that ahead. [container door opening] ♪ what makes it an suv is what you can get into it.
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by all appearances the "charlie hedbo" terror attack has united the french people but it may have also further isolated french muslims and several experts are suggesting that the latter is exactly what
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the terrorists might have wanted all along. they say right now most muslims do not sympathize with al qaeda. but the terror attack incites all muslims to stand with all muslims. i'm joined now by cnn global affairs analyst bobby ghosh to talk more about this. you have a different take on bobby, you don't think there will be a backlash of all muslims from nonmuslims who feel isolated from the, quote-unquote, mainstream of french society. >> i think that's less likely. maybe you'll go through days and weeks where there's tension and fear and antagonism but i think in the long run that will begin to fade. 10% of the population of france is muslim. what that means is almost every french person who is not a muslim knows somebody who is a muslim. you encounter muslims all the time in france. if you do, if you see them in your grocery store, if you see them in your office your kids
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are going to school with other kids who are muslim if that's the case then you know that most muslims are not like this. it's hard to paint muslims as the other if you're constantly interacting with them. and the analog for this the example for this is what happened in britain after the 77 attacks in london. there was a similar fear that the non-muslim brits would turn against muslims. it did not happen for similar reasons. british people know muslims, see them encounter them see them on television see them in their public life all the time. >> let me ask you to play devil's advocate here. if someone knows someone, they see them in the grocery store, they work with them they're muslim fine. but what about muslims that they don't know that maybe they're not going to give the benefit of the doubt to? is that a possibility? >> i think certainly now, right now, when the nation is going through a trauma -- and let's not understate that. it is a big trauma for the french state especially since
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this is an attack that was conducted by french nationals. french citizens. it's a big blow. so there will be a period i think when people are suspicious an tagtagonistic and there are political bodies in france the right wing extremist political parties that will seek to stir anxiety. >> yeah. >> but i think, you know, i have faith in france's -- in french society that they will in the long term even in the medium term be able to absorb this blow and get past it. french muslim are very much part of french culture. there's a lot of communications. yes, there is a very large proportion of french muslim population that's very poor that is destitute -- >> let's talk about that, though. >> yeah. >> how do you deal with that section of the population that feels disenfranchised, that is angry, that looks at something like this especially some of the younger folks and something like
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this may appeal to them? >> there are two narratives coming out of this. one, yes, the narrative of the kouachis and the coulibaly but there's also the narrative of the french copy editor at "charlie hedbo" who died. there's the narrative of the french muslim policeman who died. there's the narrative of the young french man who at the grocery -- at the -- >> kosher market. >> kosher market protected the lives of some shoppers. so there are two narratives coming out, as they should be. that allows young people -- that gives young french people a different story, a different thing to aspire to. and hopefully as we've already seen that's the narrative that will become the dominant one and that's the narrative that the french -- the muslim community will want to embrace in ways that will be -- will be constructive. >> that certainly is the hope. and bobby ghosh, we'll continue
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our conversation coming up. new reports, an order for terror cells to be activated while police and security forces launch a massive hunt and worry that a key suspect may have slipped through their fingers.
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hi there, you're watching breaking news here on cnn. i'm brianna keilar in new york. >> and i'm jim sciutto in paris. by all appearances the "charlie hedbo" attack the threat certainly still not over here. we have new information today about police warning about potential new threats, particularly against police officers. a security meeting taking place in paris today among police a warning going out to police that the possibility of terror cells, sleeper cells, activated in the last 24 hours. police advised as a precaution to keep their weapons close at all times as a result of that warning and also erase their social media presence. take down their profiles on facebook twitter, et cetera. why? because it is believed that is how some of these groups are identifying potential targets. that is one piece of news today. another piece of news today,
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french authorities establishing that the missing partner of the man who carried out the attack on a kosher market yesterday in paris, hayat boumediene, is no longer in paris. they believe that, in fact, she left for turkey possibly en route to syria, some one week ago. turkey now doing its best to track their movements there. i'm joined now by samuel laurent he's a cnn terror analyst. he has covered the terror issue for some time has written books about the terror threat here. and samuel let's talk about this new warning going out to police today. this resulted from a security briefing today, is that right? >> yeah. exactly. there has been a security briefing this afternoon from directory that is basically working on terror issues. and it has been advised to the police to stay very careful as some cells has been uncovered and activated by coulibaly which
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was the hostage taker in the kosher shop. >> amedi coulibaly? >> exactly. the hostage taker in the kosher shop and, actually he has been sending some calls that have been traced over the last days and even hours of his life in order to start activating some of his network. and the instructions seem to be clear, seems to be attacking the police. >> so when we say activating these terror cells, they are tracing that to phone calls that amedi coulibaly made while he had taken over already taken over this kosher shop and perhaps before that after -- i just want to remind our viewers because the attacker who took over the kosher market is the same attacker who killed a female police officer on a shooting in the paris street thursday before the attack. when they are talking about actvation of cells they are talking about him making phone calls to people in the broader networks in which he, coulibaly
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and the kouachi brothers who carried out the "charlie hedbo" attack. >> we are talking about three peoples from now. even the initial cell from which they originated in 2008 was much bigger and better than that. it was 10 15 20 people. this cell has probably increased in terms of number syria and the flows of jihadis flowing and coming back to france. so we can expect unfortunately in those cells those members, the members, are much more numerous than the three we already neutralized. >> this was the thing, this was an early question were the original two attacks connected, of course, the very deadly bloody attack on "charlie hedbo" on wednesday followed on thursday by that police shooting followed, again, by taking over that kosher market. it became very clear to police that, in fact, they were connected. there were deep ties between coulibaly and between those kouachi brothers. >> very deep ties. both of them has basically the same mentor who had met long time ago in jail. they have radicalized there.
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and basically they spoke the same ideas. and later on alongside with the war and the fracture in syria between al qaeda and isis we have saw some of them drifting towards the new movement towards isis because coulibaly basically was claiming to be acting on the name of isis when the others were still loyal to al qaeda. >> this is very interesting. because there were moments, there were phone calls, the kouachi brothers reached by a journalist a french journalist yesterday, in the midst of this standoff before they were later killed by french security police a journalist called that office and managed to reach one of the kouachi brothers who said we are doing this for al qaeda in the arabian peninsula and he said that anwar al awlaki had financed it. so you had that with the kouachi brothers. with coulibaly at the kosher market, he was saying isis. how do you explain that difference? and i wonder actually for our viewers as well do we draw distinctions where there aren't
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necessarily distinctions that perhaps they could have allegiances to both? >> you know, the goal is the same. the goal for isis and for al qaeda is exactly the same towards the west. it's aggression. it's fighting. it's terrorism. but actually what we saw is a replication of the drift that is now existing among the jihadi community worldwide. you saw it in the middle east and you saw it in northern africa. all the jihadi movements that were entirely loyal to al qaeda have been drifting with part of them making allegiance to -- >> to isis. >> -- to the caliphate. >> because of isis' success, success as they've taken over as they claim, established an islamic state in iraq and syria, that success is an enormous driver for recruiting. >> isis is concrete. al qaeda is an idea. they are basically throwing ideas. isis is concrete. it has an army. it has a place. a government and so on. so therefore, yes, it has a power of seduction that is much bigger. but actually what we've seen now
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is a competition between the two organizations which are far from france. they are rival nowaday. and basically this terror plots are part of i would say, a competition to game the heart of radical muslims worldwide. >> it really is a sick competition. >> it is very sick. >> isn't it? because the way they attract attention is who can be bloodier and more brutal. the french authorities today realizing in effect that the girlfriend or partner, there was some marriage ceremony of amedi coulibaly, that she actually was not in france that she left for turkey possibly on her way to syria. how important is she to this to investigating this to stopping further attacks, catching her? how important is that? >> she was very important and that's why she left. actually we noticed that for one year she has spent 500 calls to the wife of the other brother. so therefore, she was the link. they were both very -- under a
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lot of surveillance. so the wives i would say or the girlfriends were used at that time to be the logisticians of these operations. basically she has a lot of information. she's extremely precious in terms of intelligence. so that's probably why the reason why she's been exited out of france. the same way in the cold war era people were exited from the soviet union. >> interesting. >> they left the hostile territory to go back to the black hole that is syria. >> hard to track there. >> exactly. >> samuel laurent very helpful on the alarming concerning developments today about a further threat here in france. please stay with us. we're going to have new information about one of the brother's trips to yemen and what happened when he came back to france. another startling development. please stay with us. we'll have that right after this break.
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and welcome back. i'm jim sciutto in paris. i'm joined now by senior reporter for "le express" magazine. eric pellitier. he has startling news regarding one of the kouachi brothers in his travels overseas before this week's attacks. what have you learned? >> yeah. we know that let's say, july 2011 one of the brother went to
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haman and has been staying in the area around three weeks. we don't know exactly what he did. but the american intelligence services transmitted to the french side very important information. he may have joined training camp. >> so he went to amman. >> for sure. >> and then on to yemen was their belief. >> probably he went to yemen to join a training camp. >> you're saying u.s. intelligence tracked him there and then communicated that to the french. >> that's for sure because this is the starting point of the french surveillance because in november 2011 because the american transmitted this information to the french they decided to put these brother under surveillance. >> see, this was a question. so after that yemen trip the french put him under what we call in the u.s. a control order? >> yeah. under surveillance yeah. >> under surveillance as well. a control order so he couldn't
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travel and a surveillance so you could watch him. and you have found and this is particularly startling, that they later made a decision to take him off that surveillance. >> yes. that's very important. he had been under surveillance during at least three years. >> 2011 to 2014. >> yes. >> okay. >> yes. >> and last summer the surveillance has been ended. >> they ended the surveillance just last summer? >> yeah. >> six months roughly before -- >> you're right. >> -- the attacks took place. >> you're right. because they did not detect any danger emitted danger for national security. >> did not detect an immediate danger even with the knowledge that he had traveled to yemen. and i believe they have the knowledge at that point that he had met with al qaeda in the arabian peninsula with aqap or just that he had traveled to yemen? >> we know that he traveled to amman and he stayed in the region in the area and the
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americans said probably he went to yemen. >> i see. >> but that's the only information we had at that point. >> i see. so they believed he'd gone on to yemen. they didn't know for sure so they weren't, thereby, certain that he had linked up to aqap while he was in yemen? >> yeah. >> okay. but still, interesting. so they decided he was an important enough figure to keep him under surveillance for three years -- >> that's quite long yes. >> a very long time. at a great dedication of resources. i spoke with the former head of french counterterror unit a couple of days ago who explained to me you need three to ten officers to keep one person under surveillance. you imagine in a country, i'll just remind our viewers in u.s. and around the world, that france is estimated has some 5,000 suspected terrorists. >> yeah. >> this is an enormous task. >> that's probably why the surveillance ended last summer because they did not detect anything. they decided to go to other
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targets. >> i see. and this is a difficult judgment call to be sure. because intelligence services whether in france or the u.s. they have a number of potential suspects and deciding before they act is a difficult thing to do. that said just six months ago to take him off and then this happens. in france how much of a failure is that -- is that considered? >> well of course this is a failure, because when you see that people have been killed shot dead in paris, this is a failure, of course. there is no other option. but we must know how -- it has been possible and probably we did not consider the american information transmitted in november 2011. >> right. interesting. so it's an example where you have the french and u.s.
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intelligence services sharing information, but then, of course the next step is what do you do with that information? >> of course. of course. >> eric pelletier, thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> interesting reporting and somewhat alarming brianna, just to recap, that french intelligence had one of the kouachi brothers these are the brothers responsible for the deadly attack on the "charlie hedbo" magazine under surveillance for three years. enormous dedication of resources. he had to be important, but just six months ago as eric pelleyty yea has reported they took him off the surveillance. >> thank you, jim sciutto, for us in paris. that illustrates the difficulties the french authorities have with this problem. i want to talk about it more with sal lifuri and robert mcfadden also with us and we have national security analyst bob baer he's a former cia
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operative and we have law enforcement analyst tom fuentes formerly with the fbi. sal, i want to start with you and i want to talk about this warning to police that they really need to in a way erase themselves from social media. don't put yourself out there. don't give -- don't make yourself a target really and also keep your gun close. what do you make of this? to french police. >> yeah to the french police. obviously it's, you know something that law enforcement doesn't hear all the time. it's not something we're very familiar with here in the united states. but the fact that the warning came out must have been something that was very specific. there must be intelligence that said that some of the cells or some of the groups might be trying to identify law enforcement and go after them. because they would make an attractive target. >> and, tom, what do you think of this the fact that there could be some threat against police officers in france? certainly there is a lot of vigilance here in new york city
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because of two police officers who were assassinated recently. but what do you make of this new alert in france? >> well brianna, you know, the warnings or the threat issued by isis in particular has been out for a couple of months now. that's why we saw the attack particularly in ottawa canada and the hatchet attack of nypd officers in new york so this is just a repeat of the standing order, if you will from isis to go after people in uniform, military and/or police officers because they symbolize the government and the uniform is basically like having a target on their back. secondly on social media, you know a lot of people don't realize if they take pictures at home and they use their smartphone and it's little pierre's birthday party and they shoot the pictures and put it on facebook and other social media, sometimes the grid coordinates, the grid coordinates, are embedded in that photo and others can open it up and say,
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aha, that's where that person lives, that's where the police officer's family is. you know that's part of the reason of being able to track people on social media. >> all right, robert i want to talk a little bit about what we're hearing from hezbollah. a terrorist group saying do you know what we condemn this. what do we make of this? is this just sunni versus shia? is this a schism when we're talking about islamic extremism? what do we decipher this to be? >> i saw that earlier. and actually no surprise in the current environment a couple of things to take from that. one, politically hezbollah wants to show the upper hand when it comes to look we're not for this kind of savagery and terrorism. okay? the reality of it is though too, in syria and in lebanon it's going toe to toe with this brand of extreme sunni islam that's the ideology that fuels what the brothers did. so you have that trying to show we're not for that part of islam, but at the same time a
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poke against one of its mortal enemies. that type of ideology in syria. >> so is that just pr as you read it? >> that's a part of it absolutely is a part of it. >> it's a part of it okay. and then i want to talk about some of the news we just heard right before our panel began. bob, you heard that that french authorities had had the kouachi brothers under surveillance for three years and yet just here in the last six months they had pulled that surveillance. what do you think of that? is this something that french authorities will look back on and will say this was a huge mistake? or is this french authorities really they're trying to drink out of a fire hose and they can't keep everyone under surveillance who could be a potential problem? >> well brianna, you're exactly right. i mean the fact that a frenchman traveled to yemen does not, you know, mean that he's going there for terrorism training. he may have gone there to study arabic to study islam.
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you don't know. because the only thing the cia can tell the french is that he's gone there. he's traveled from amman to sanaa and he's disappeared. in the mountain areas there's no way to track him. the french put him on a list. they listened to his phone for a while. i doubt they put physical surveillance without a physical threat. it would not only take dozens of people it would take hundreds of people to track one of these people. if, in fact, there are 5,000 terror suspects in france it's pretty much a gamble who you follow and who you don't. and once we get into this metadata and start looking at this attack we're going to see all sorts of connections that everybody is going to say, they should have gone after this. but you've got 5 million to 6 million muslims in france and it's overwhelmed the police. >> let's talk about the metadata. the idea that there may be a smarter way to connect the dots here. when you look at how the french police are doing their job here
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is it a good job? and how could they get better here? >> well i think right now, brianna, we don't know what kind of metadata they have. what that basically means here in the united states instead of only having phone records going back a year or two years you're asking in this case in the u.s. the nsa, hold these records for multiple years so when the attack happens and we want to go back to 2011 or '10 or 2009 you can go back. and then see the phone calls and the connections and who called who at that time. otherwise that's lost forever and you can't go back and retrack who those conversations -- not so much conversation but who was in touch with who and try to retrace that. you know, and as bob just mentioned, the underwear bomber who tried to blow up the airliner in 2009 attended arabic studies in sanaa, yemen, in 2004 to 2005. so there, if you will legit
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legitimate purposes to go to yemen that don't necessarily involve terrorism or if they do it can be camouflaged by attending a legitimate school. >> very good point. tom fuentes, thank you so much. thank you, bob baer and sal and robert. appreciate you being with us. we'll talk more about this hezbollah. you have hezbollah which the u.s. describes as a terrorist organization condemning what has happened in france. why is this happening? what does this mean? we'll go live to beirut to talk more about that.
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welcome back i'm jim sciutto in paris. the leader of a group considered terrorists by the u.s. and europe is making his own feelings known about what happened here in paris. he heads the shiite muslim group hezbollah he says extremists in general, islamic extremists do more damage to islam and the prophet muhammad than any cartoons or books or newspapers. our nick payton walsh is in beirut tonight. hezbollah has been responsible for terrorist attacks of its own. how significant is it to have the statement like this granted, he did not mention the "charlie hedbo" attackers specifically but certainly the timing is telling. how significant a statement do you think that is?
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>> reporter: well the timing was late on friday. just as the world was getting to grips with the aftermath of those standoffs in france. certainly, yes, hezbollah, as you say, viewed as a terrorist organization by the u.s. and many western countries, too, has had a lengthy, complex task of trying to reposition itself effectively here inside the middle east. they are on the shia side. they're representing a shia majority minority depending on your demographic viewpoint here inside lebanon. they are backing the syrian regime inside syria, too, some say they're also fighting inside iraq as well. when it comes to these acts of extremism in the west, elsewhere, they're often going to be blamed on sunni radical groups and many say that hezbollah are carefully and slowly not mentioning paris by name in this speech trying to position themselves in a more not western friendly but certainly less anti-western capacity than they used to be. simply because perhaps they wish to see any assistance or
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effectively their enemy's enemy being their friend. coming in their advantage in the months ahead. but it is very significant to hear hassan nasrallah, a man who founded this movement from the beginning to oppose israel coming out with a statement like that, late on friday. jim? >> i'm glad you made that point, that you, of course hezbollah, shiite group. the terror groups we see active isis and in syria and iraq and aqap principally sunni groups. is it purely sec tarn lyly sectarian or are there other elements there? we saw splits before al qaeda in effect kicking out isis for being too radical. so how much of this in your view is sectarian, and how much of it is a concern you referenced just then that -- that some of these acts some of these attacks, may be going too
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far and might damage their own interests? so what do you percentage or what portion do you think is sectarian or what portion do ul think is that concern? >> reporter: i think it's really pragmatism at the end of the day. this is a country lebanon which is hezbollah's home today they are wrestling this evening in the north city of tripoli with a double suicide bombing. they hit a restaurant killing seven, injuring 20 according to a state news agency that is most likely going to be claimed by a sunni extremist group like an ally to al qaeda, so there's the midst here in lebanon of a feeling potential crisis. most lebanese strongly oppose isis or even the idea of them having an increased presence inside lebanon but it's locally pragmatic. i think many are concerned who support hezbollah that they are significantly drained by their involvement in syria and even iraq over the past year or so. they are perhaps looking to consolidate their position here inside lebanon when it comes to
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a moment like this when the world is frankly not all united but mostly united about a vision of disgust about what happened in paris they seize this moment to position themselves in the moral majority rather than their prescription as a terrorist organization finding themselves on the fringes. a key moment certainly but fascinating to hear that voice considered extremist itself by the u.s. coming out effectively against what the u.s. considers extremism today at that particular time, jim. >> well fascinating developments for sure. competition for attention, for relevance among these groups and we see that playing out. briannea keilar throwing back to you now in new york. you know, it's interesting, we talk a lot about the division between east and west between islam and christianity but you have, you know severe divisions playing out within the faith of islam. not just sectarian but over these attacks as well. >> yeah. certainly that is the case. and we're going to talk with a guest right now, jim sciutto, who is going to cover that with
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us. joining me now dr. ahmad, a muslim scholar. let's talk about what hezbollah is saying that islamic extremists have hurt islam more than cartoonists. some people would say that's rich considering that hezbollah's considered to be a terrorist organization but break this down for us. >> brianna i think they said the opposite. they said the cartoonists have injured islam more. i think that's what their statement was. but i think what hezbollah is trying to do is distance themselves from the actions of these people in france and that is masterful deception. hezbollah is an islamist organization an islamist in ideology. islamism can be institution, nonviolent or violent, as the french actors in this crisis recently. and what hezbollah is attempting to do is seeking legitimacy by denouncing these acts when they sponsor exactly the same
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ideology. what is the difference between islam and islamism? islam, i'm a muslim and i follow islam is a spiritual mon though theism with a simple coda fasting, praying to mecca if we have enough means. man made 20th century construct. it's political toll totalitarian in ideology and at its center is vehement terrorist jihadism. it's not any kind of jihad that might be written about in the koran and it also has centrally deep anti-semitic intent. they regard islamists, jews or anything of jewish identity israel, jude dismyaism as a cosmic enemy. they launched a war in the northern border of israel in 2006 and they are anticipating a future war with the exact same nihilistic ideology.
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>> that hezbollah is trying to distance themselves from what is going on in france. >> iranian sponsored islamist movement. and iran is an islamist pseudodemocracy, i would call it a theocracy, but it's an islamist government has actually been the propoint of this violence. islamism came out of 20th century egypt. in 1928, from hassan bana it has all the qualities i talked about. and it's not constructed from islamic doctrine revealed doctrine. it is manned manmade. >> and yet many people struggle to make the distinction that you are making. how do they do that in a way to better understand what's going on? >> they are, first of all, i think you're doing the very initial steps, which is that we're having a conversation about islamism versus islam. just as at the beginning of the post-9/11 era there was difficult understanding
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sectarian divides between shia and sunni. similarly we're now in an era where people cannot understand that islamism is not true islam. we are enabling that confusion. we by i'm talking about the united states or western democracies, by not exposing islamism. and the way we can distinguish it is learn it. political scientists have written about it and explained the differences. much of the scholarships coming out of the muslim world by muslim scholars. >> searching for under here is the key here. just to wrap around what we talked to at the beginning the head of hezbollah saying that terrorists have damaged islam more than cartoons. that's what he said. >> i see. but he's obviously considering himself not a subscriber to a terrorist ideology. >> which is what i said someone would look at it and say that's rich. >> yes. i would consider the ideology -- their ideology inspires and practices terrorist actions.
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>> and you don't differentiate? >> i absolutely don't. i think one of the -- there have been terrible barbaric outcomes because of isis which we recognize to be jihadist and islamist but one of the worst outcomes it makes groups like hamas and hezbollah to be legitimate because they fall short of a degree of barbarity. hezbollah is practicing a grand deception. >> many shades of it. thank you very much dr. ahmed. >> thank you. >> we'll be back with more live coverage from paris in just a moment. who cares what it holds, if it can't hold your gaze? who cares how tight it can turn, if it can't turn heads? who cares how capable it is, if it's incapable of creating a reaction? any suv can move something. but can it move you? introducing the first-ever lexus nx turbo and hybrid. once you go beyond utility there's no going back.
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yesterday's suspected hostage takers who is now dead made several phone calls about targeting french policemen and that was two days after the deadly attack on a paris magazine office in which two police officers were also killed. a woman who police thought was involved in friday's hostage standoff is now thought to have been outside the country, possibly in turkey with her eventually destination being syria. officials haven't revealed why they thought she was involved but they do say she is wanted here in france. and the two brothers who police believe opened fire on that paris magazine office wednesday both are now dead as well, of course. one of them said kouachi was reportedly once a roommate in yemen of the so-called underwear bomber who tried on bring down an airliner over detroit in 2009. his explosives concealed in his underwear. i want to go now to the kosher grocery store in eastern paris where four hostages were killed yesterday. senior international
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correspondent fred pleitgen is there. fred police believe that female suspect hayat boumediene was possibly inside the store during yesterday's siege but now a major change. what is the latest on the hunt for this female suspect? >> reporter: well, it certainly is one that's going to be a lot more difficult now if the authorities really believe that she's not here in france anymore. of course, it appears as though it was turkish authorities that then did give the confirmation that she had actually left the country here on january 2nd. she was really one of those people who seemed absolutely pivotal to the investigation going forward, jim. because, remember that not only was it believed that she might have been inside the kosher store while the siege was going on with coulibaly, her boyfriend or husband, whichever way one wants to see it and that she might have escaped in the commotion that happened after the raid by the police but it's also it was believed that she might have been an accomplice in the murder that happened only a day earlier on thursday when a police woman was shot by
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coulibaly and he managed to get away there. remember that the wanted posters, the wanted signs, of her and him, came out as the siege began here in the kosher store. and so therefore, she was really one of those pivotal people. now, of course she's someone who authorities here want to speak to quite badly as well. because of the four people known to have been involved in all of the events that happened here over the past couple of days she is the only one who is still alive. whether or not it's feasible for french authorities to be able to get their hands on her or whether or not she's already disappeared in syria possibly that's something that the authorities here are going to have to find out, but certainly she was one of the pivotal people and now it appears she might very well be out of the reach of the law, jim. >> and, of course they may think that she would know more about this broader terror group, the kouachi brothers amedi coulibaly was involved in and they believe the people the
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kouachi brothers were urging to carry out further attacks on police certainly central to preventing attacks going forward. fred a major event planned in paris here tomorrow hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people joining, but also world leaders joining, some very impressive names. what do we know about the turnout tomorrow and who is going to join from overseas as well? >> reporter: yeah. absolutely. and the turnout appears to be or at heat those participating seems to become more impressive as the hours go on. we know that benjamin netanyahu, the prim minister of israel wants to come and the prime minister of turkey wants to come and angela merkel and david cameron will be here certainly a very prominent list of people who will come. it's unclear how big the turnout is going to be but certainly it will be in the tens of thousands if not well over 100,000 who want to take part in that march from the square set to begin at
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3:00 p.m. the local time in france. it's certainly a march that will be very big and one that will focus not only on freedom of expression and the press but generally the way that european societies want to conduct themselves the way that european societies want to try to foster a little more cohesion between the various groups inside them going forward. of course, we keep talking about the fact that france is, of course the country in europe that has the largest muslim population. also, of course, has by most accounts most islamic extremists going to places like iraq and syria. it is a problem here. nevertheless it can't be stated more or often enough that it really is only a tiny fraction who live here who become susceptible to such ideologyies and there was a vigil that happened here tonight and that certainly was the message from that vigil as well certainly it is a concern but a civil society in a country like this one has to make clear that there is a very very large silent majority that certainly doesn't condone what happened here over
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the past couple of days jim. >> no question. we've learned as well that jordan's king abdullah to join tomorrow as well. a tremendous showing not just from europe but leaders of the middle east the muslim world, a show of defiance to this sort of violence. we'll take a closer look shortly at the ties between to al qaeda on the arabian peninsula and isis.
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welcome back. i'm jim sciutto in paris. we continue to cover the investigation of the violence here in paris over the last several days as well as a new warning tonight about the possibility of new attacks. i'm joined by my colleague brianna keilar she's in new york. >> all right, thanks jim. i want to bring in our panel and have you jump in here in just a second as well. i want to talk about a rally that we are expecting to see tomorrow. already today we've seen
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hundreds of thousands of people pouring onto the streets in france trying to show their solidarity with the victims of the attacks in paris. we were expecting many more to be on the ground tomorrow so let's talk about this now with robert mcfadden. we have sal lifrieri and bob baer and lieutenant general mark hurtling, gentlemen, sal and robert you're looking at a march tomorrow that could have hundreds of thousands of people i don't know maybe even more. we don't know exactly. and you've also got two dozen world leaders coming in. that includes -- and i don't know exactly if he's participating in the march at this point, but he's coming in to france that includes israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. this is a big security concern, is it not? >> it's an incredible security concern. you know having worked on papal visits inaugurations, and you know the amount of time that you need to -- planning to be able
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to put an effective security plan in place. when you look at tomorrow what's going to happen and in light of everything that's gone on and is going on today, it's just an incredible security undertaking, you know you have an alert coming out today telling police officers to carry -- to make sure to have their weapons and to have their weapons. you're saying that cells have been activated and you are holding this event and you have world leaders coming. i can't picture the person who is responsible, what that person is going through tonight, who is responsible for that security. >> do you think that france is ready for this robert? >> what sal said it's hard to imagine a security event, endeavor of that scale with all that's going on with the threat reporting. obviously with the ambush of the french police woman a few days ago. intelligence and the ongoing threat to the police incredible. on the other hand though, i think at a national level looking at it from the french
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perspective, resiliency civil society, you know, is right there with security right now. >> yeah. >> as an important item for them. >> yeah some defiance to say that we aren't going to be -- we are not going indoors because of what has happened. i want to bring in jim sciutto now, i know you have some questions for our panel, jim. >> thanks brianna. the numbers are just daunting here. not only in france but for europe and frankly for the u.s. because you have really this pipeline of fighters coming out of iraq and syria as well as really hard to determine the extent the pool for lone wolf attacks, radicalized on their own. i wonder if as americans, as europeans, if the new reality is that attacks like this become a fact of life? as good a job as intelligence services can do to prevent some attacks, that invariably some will get through. bob baer your experience in the cia for years, is that a new reality do you think, not just
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for europeans, but for americans as well? >> jim, i think this is -- we're going to be hearing a lot more about this. there's going to be more attacks. they're going to probably be sophisticated like the ones in france. and let's don't forget these were assassinations against the magazine. they were directed against the kosher market and shooting the police hitting people in uniform, is a new level of an assault on the west. and i think that the french are -- i've worked with the french in the past. they're very very good. they're good at data analytics. they got a great counterterrorism team there. but they simply can't deal with 5,000 suspects and 5 million to 6 million muslims. we don't even know how many muslims there are in france and easy travel to getting into syria, into yemen, crossing the border in turkey. they simply can't keep track of everybody. and if these people the jihadists, are determined to hit france, they will get through. >> it's a daunting reality.
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brianna keilar and i will be back with our panel with more on this topic right after this break.
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i want to bring back our panel now to talk about our breaking news coming out of paris. we have robert mcfadden sal, bob baer with us as well as lieutenant general mark hurtling. i want to talk to you, general hurtling about what we're seeing as this split. not really a split, but kind of a battle that you're seeing in islamic extremism between isis and al qaeda. you have isis essentially being kicked out of al qaeda or al qaeda saying really trying to distance itself from isis. let's talk about how that fits in to what we have seen in paris and also just talk about what we're seeing in the big picture here in this struggle between these two groups. >> yeah. i was fascinated by your conversation with jim a little while ago, brianna. the aqap is more of a political and a tribal organization not so much sectarian. you have al qaeda in pakistan none of them are competing well.
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and there's conflict with isis. all of these things have transitioned over the years and i think you've seen an ebb and flow between different people joining different organizations. when you talk about the two brothers in france who immediately were enamored with aqap that organization has changed significantly over the last several years. >> and we're seeing those changes. and these sort of you heard dr. ahead talkmed talking about, i guess, these splinter groups or what many people would identify as islamist extremist groups. and she said that they're really -- you know, this isn't to be confused with islam. talk about what you see these groups doing to counter modern nonviolent muslim efforts. >> well what i've seen over the last few days is there's been such an intense reaction by a lot of people of islam to this
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attack but you also have a popular uprising in many countries across europe to fanaticism. it reminds me a lot of what we saw in the awakening movement in iraq when moderate islam rose up against al qaeda in iraq in 2007 to begin the awakening. i think we may be on the cusp of that and that's something that could be a positive in all of this activity. >> and you saw that with all of the time that you spent in iraq. a very fascinating development there in the rejection of extremism. we will obviously hope that that is the case that we see that here and we'll be watching to see. lieutenant general mark hurtling thank you so much. thank you as well to robert sal and bob. we'll be back in just a quick moment with more on our breaking news. [container door opening] ♪ what makes it an suv is what you can get into it.
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you are in the cnn newsroom. i'm brianna keilar in new york. >> and i'm jim sciutto in paris. welcome to our coverage of events in paris, in france
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including a new terror warning tonight. a fresh wave of fear rising in paris. a french police source tells cnn terror sleeper cells were activated just over the last 24 hours inside france. police officers have been told to erase their social media accounts and to carry their guns now at all times. up next i'll talk to a cnn analyst who spoke with french police about those terror cells. meanwhile, the hunt is on for a woman personally connected to all three terrorists who launched attacks in and around paris this week. hayat boumediene is the only person suspected to the terrorists in paris that is still
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